No cool aid for us & Ti and Do’s humor

I have created this compliation of a discussion board on my facebook Sawyer HeavensGate account. The group I am speaking about is the group known as Heaven’s Gate, the 39 people who in 1997 layed down their physical lives in sync with the Hale Bopp comet’s closest point to Earth which was on the spring solstice of 1997, which was the “resurrection (standing up – becoming existant (Yahovah) of the “dead in Christ” from among the soon to be spiriutally dead, those who remain that have not decided where their allegience is. This was the only legitimate “second coming” of the annointed ones (Two Witnesses(martus), Two Olive Trees, Two lampstands (christs/buddha’s) as promised by many traditional religious belief systems/record books (that hold both true and distorted records of the One True many membered Physical Evolutionary Level Above Human (above human and above human equivilent Luciferian styled space aliens) relationship with humans universally, spoken of as the Kingdom of God, of Heaven, located in the deep space literal stars/outer space/heavens).

All prophesies among many tradtions and cultures pointed to this event. I, Sawyer was a member of Ti and Do’s (Father and Son) team for 19 years and thus have an obligation to serve them as best I can which brings me to the following discussion, one of many on Facebook:

Sawyer HeavensGate wrote:

I love humor. In the group with Ti and Do we had lots of humor as was displayed by some of the exit video’s, largly ollody with the funny hat that he wore. I forget where we got that Dr. Seuss like hat but that was only one reflection of ollody (cabot’s) personality.

However, humor aside, their exit was of course not humorous for those who still felt connection to them, mostly as family members, though in 99% of them they had long ago introduced the change of their love and loyalties, not something we who remain are meant to do at all, though to really become a member in their world(society, environment, abodes, lifestyle, membership, communit), requires a pass through the initial gate that puts us only on the docket for a future growth towards membership opportunity.

The first step is simply to believe in them (Yes the same thing the christians say and even other religions, but largly misapply as meaning someone else gives us the pie in the sky entirely by our belief and slight adherence to basic morality (that has also been twisted to be based only on sexuality and it’s forms)).

After belief, comes works. The grace is what the real Kingdom of God offers us which no religious institution nor offshoot sect offers. Of course the kingdom is actually quite the real place and is a natural evoltuionary step that humans are prepared for by the Next Level. The preparation humans are given is the “grace” the water that the horse is provided to drink, that tells the horse to not be afraid.

Humans and various behind the scenes “influences” are what interject fear and guilt and all that religious dogma – celebration and condemnation of others. The members of the evolutionary level above human don’t need to inflict any of that on us, though they do at times weed the garden they created for the purpose of raising potential young to their world.

Ti and Do said that the human kingdom was not designed to work in the sense of being a final place to arrive at and not move on from. And that’s “human”. Just traveling in outer space doesn’t make us less human any more than a dog in a car with humans makes them a human. Thus space aliens are no more than human dogs in high tech cars. Right now as we speak humans are in the process of becoming potential space aliens to somewhere else, that is if the Level Above Human allows them.

Since I’ve already gone way beyond the title and am accused all the time of wordiness I’ll close this communication with the “no kool aid” part. At the stage of new believers there is absolutely no kool aid allowed and escpecially when the older members have left their physical “incarnation” with us and especially because we each need lots and lots of duration of self examination and self discipline involving mind and matter (which is where various religions get the idea in the first place, all being related to past experiences with the Level Above Human’s Gardening efforts that started long before adam and eve, simply the latest experiment cycle).

At this time, it only to understand why they left the way they did. I don’t know if that exact method is the way it’s mostly done, but the end of our physical life is part of being human and is the biggest aspect of demonstrating our resolve – as Jesus said in many ways and Moses alluded to and disciples of each demonstrated.

The serious believers must begin to breach their fear of coming into disfavour with others and that is largly accomplished by sharing difficult to share and largly unpopular information whiich at certain times in a civilization does prove to escalate one’s physical demise, but who the Next Level keeps track of so to “save” their soul for a future opportunity to be brought back (the real origin of the idea of reincarnation, that does not entail actually being embedded in the vehicle, which can not be done except by a spirit attempting to do their thing through those with a physical body, thus coming back again), what Jesus referred to in his expression to the thief on the cross next to him because of his “belief”, but that has been misconstrued to mean all he needed to do is believe to have full membership) for a next phase in that evolution of mind/body towards eventual harvest/graduation.

But if people join groups like this and think by joining they are insuring a relationship to the Next Level, they are sadly mistaken just like many of the religious who think and have been programmed the same, to include the new age spiritualists and their various clubs and practices and techniques, all their dogma that I am an atheist (non believer in), though some of the practices can be beneficial for us to help us physically and mentally. It’s simply that they don’t lead to God Kingdom membership and we don’t become dieties just by saying we are, because sure the creators energy is what feeds us all so in that way it’s in us all, but it’s like having a gene that gets expressed less and less. Pretty soon that god gene has no application so atrophies.

So yes to beilef and dissemenation of Ti and Do’s information and no to kool aid, but I guess I need to keep that last part quite and the makers of kool aid may sue me for deformation of their product.

Ferg wrote on December 16, 2009 at 12:43pm

were you in heavens gate, i would like to hear more about ti and do their beliefs and what it must have been like there…please respond

Sawyer HeavensGate wrote on December 17, 2009 at 11:43am

Yes. I joined with them at the inception of Ti and Do’s coming public in 1975, then using the names Bo and Peep (but in revese name order which would have been Peep and Bo). It was no less than a whirlwind experience, none of which ever showed any signs of hypocricsy, deceit, powermongering, egotism, greed, cruelty or negativity of any kind, though was certainly a tight knit organization with very high escalating standards of behaviour and “ways”. The emphasis always being on self control and restraint in thought, word and deed. Our bodies were our tools, so they were treated exceptionally well, though not entirely in the best ways for complete human health but to complete the task of transformation/metamorphosis – overcoming to enable the development of our “soul” body. For instance we were all celebate in mind(according to each members personal discipline, with the aim of being totally without sexual thoughts or feelings) and in body(not actually allowing our bodies to masturbate or be in situations that could stimulate those systems(which of course goes hand in hand with our own mind control over our brain/body). It would take literal volumes and volumes to describe all that it entailed, but let me say that it was nothing like it’s been portrayed by any media. There was no ritual, dogma, no heirarchy (though it was quite clear who the teachers were. They didn’t have to tell us that. They treated each of us as their children whom they loved. I remember how funny it seemed when they would refer to lggody as their “kido” in fun when he was in his late 50’s (at that time) and had been in the world a very well to do Colorado horse rancher with 4 grown children and was a grandfather, that he had left beind to join with Ti and Do. But it was clear that no matter our accomplishments, talents and skills in the world, we were all their children and it wasn’t in terms of discipline over us at all. I never saw they speak down to anyone. I never saw them speak angrily. However, I did see Ti (Do’s Older Member(heavenly Father) speak emphatically one time out of frustration with our group growth as they very much taylored the lesson plan to the so called slowest students. By slow, it wasn’t a put down – but what it really came down to was who could/would weather the storm of bombardment from “unseen” influences that would do anything to get us to change from this direction we were all so compelled to press on with. And they were not without emotion and self critisim and they did struggle with how to help particular students. They hardly ever generalized anything. They were always very thorough and sought to create a positive from every seeming negative but if someone wanted to leave, they were free to, though most left secretly (not to face Ti and Do) or because they were asked/told to leave (19 in the first year were seperated from the other ~70 at that point, while 2 were asked to leave because they did not want to abopt a major lesson step entitled “I could be wrong” which had to do with what Jesus called “thy will be done” or “deny yourself”, redirecting our all to our Older Members, which for us was primarily to Do as he was our Older Member while Ti was like our grandfather in the experience levels of the Evolutionary Level Above Human’s natural heirarchy). I left them in 1994 after talking with Do. It was certainly a failure on my part, according to my strong desire to be there with all my heart, mind, soul and strength, but I did not have to leave. It’s a long story and I have no problem telling it, but let me just say for now that it was not because I disaggreed with them or had any kind of falling out or a desire to do something in the world. The surface reason was because I gave into sensuality with myself – I began to entertain sexual feelings and images and engaged in masturbation and for some strange reason lacked even the desire to re-gain my past successes which were quite good or so it seemed for 18 years before then. It took me some 10 years after leaving to really see what had happened. When I left I wanted
nothing but they insisted in giving me $600 and a plane ticket to wherever I wanted to go. I have written about this on one of my blogs and by the way I do a radio broadcast most thursday nights 11pm-1am ET on blogtalkradio.com/sawyer that you can hear over the internet and chat too and/or call into to listen and/or converse with me, at which time I’d be glad to elaborate on anything. (I am NOT recruting and am NOT telling anyone that they should or would please Ti and Do at this time by “laying down their life”. That was for them at that time and was well prepared for.

Ferg wrote on December 17, 2009 at 7:30pm

your a strong person, some of the questions i have for you seem strange for me to ask, like, did they castrate themselves? certain things ive done to myself in the past (sleep depravation, starvation, (other weird stuff id rather not mention at this time) affected me in the way that i think maybe they felt (the people in heavens gate – if only in a small way) the other question ill refrain from asking because the im not really sure as to why im curious about it… (ill save it for another conversation perhaps) im going to check out your blog and the radio broadcast also … i feel so glad im able to talk to you… you were there, you talked to do, somewhere inside me feels like they were protected, together there in the house, free from sin (body) in their minds they were free, open mindedness takes the soul away from this body, away from this earth, they were warm, they were free to choose to leave… the philosophy, abstaining from sexual pleasures is hard for me to do… im surrounded by it, that is my sin, my life, my skin… the more i destroy myself with the way i live the more i know deep down in my heart im hurting myself… im glad i have someone to talk to … thanks for responding

Ferg wrote on December 17, 2009 at 8:35pm
amazing radio broadcast.

Ferg wrote on December 17, 2009 at 10:02pm
really enjoyed listening, keep up the good work…

“if i survive this, ill never turn away from you again”

Sawyer HeavensGate wrote on December 18, 2009 at 12:56pm

Hi, glad to have your friendship and conversation. I apologize ahead of time, if you were in the chat room trying to communicate with me or if you called, as I have a hard enough time staying on the threads of information so I often don’t pay attention to the switchboard. And my blogtalkradio.com blog is not very good or up to date. There is so, so much to say and I’ve written tons but lack time and organization to post it all, but another place where I have posted in on nowpublic.com under the name swyody (my classroom name, as Sawyer was early on in the classroom, before the “adoption” by Ti and Do.

re: castration. All were not castrated. I forget now, if it was 5 or 6 males that chose to. I was determined to be as well and I have a long story to tell about that. Actually, if you have time, I did talk about it on one of my previous broadcasts which is available to listen to online and/or download for free if you want to look for the details. Let me just say now that it was years of consideration by Do to allow some students to seek out the service of reducing their testosterone production in that way but it wasn’t encouraged at all, though Do was the first one to introduce the fact that he was considering doing so to himself, but he was not the first, which was unusual. Srrody was the first. I flipped a coin with srrody to be the first and I lost the toss. I reported that to time magazine or maybe it was newsweek when I was interviewed and used in articles in 1997 and they got a hoot out of my saying, “I lost the toss to be castrated”. But after I left Do gave the go ahead to certain students who he felt were prepared for doing so but they still had to seek it out themselves from a doctor and they actually lived outside the classroom for the time of the operation and got jobs to pay for it, which I believe Do did as well as he did eventually also castrate himself. I wasn’t there for any castrations besides srrody’s. There was a complication with srrody’s as we did it ourselves. Lvvody was a registered nurse and she worked for a year or so with a surgeon who did orchectomy’s (sp?), the removal of testicles for testicular cancer so she knew the routine. Do had her get all the proper tools and they set up a room for surgury that was sterile and one day srrody and I were called to come to where they were as the room was in their “craft” where Do was residing with two classmates who served as his “helpers”. He chose females as helpers as he, his vehicle had even before awakening to his task in 1972 moreorless left the hedorsexual world, thus was openly “gay”, though he was also at that time distraught with all his sexuality and I don’t know if he was virturally non-sexual for a period before meeting Ti, who he was never sexual with at all. Anyway the complication with srrody’s surgury was minor and remedied in a hospita in literally a couple days timel. I was there for all of it so I know, but as a result Do felt that he couldn’t allow me to go ahead with my castration that I recall being disappointed about. On the day we were deciding who would go first, srrody or me, Do asked me if I had any reservations. This was after years of my petitioning Do to allow me to have it done. I had decent control over my sexuality but what I didn’t know is how protected we were in the classroom from discarnates and even space alien transmissions that human vehicles are suseptible to that moreorless simply push the button and it can be almost impossible to control. The Next Level crew regulated how much of an attach their students could be subjected to. I learned that big time in a number of ways. Do didn’t allow us to do the castration for those years because he wasn’t sure Ti approved. He didn’t get a clear indication so he didn’t approve it.That’s the way they always operated. He expressed that he didn’t want to tamper with the balance of each student’s vehicles makeup that was the grounds of what needed to be worked against to build their “next Level mind” that would result in a viable birth, but it seems after I left by giving into sexuality (in a real sense actually a secondary aspect as the larger lesson for me was the fact that I had not overcome my ego, my desire to be special, another long story).

Now, regarding what you said about the sin of sexuality for pleasure. Yes, it certainly has escalated into an addiction for many or even most humans, but it does no good to amass guilt for such indulgence as we are operating programed human vehicles that were bred to seek sensory satisfaction and it’s not just through sexuality. Some in the class had no problems with sexual desire but they had addiction to their own sense of inflated value so much so that they could not hardly observe anyone else without being critical, thinking that they could do a better job or see more, and would experience a type of gloating about their own value. We see this big time in the new age spirituality mindsets, like with the “oneness” people, etc. But re: sexuality, in the class it certainly came up that especially males would occasionally have nocternal emmissions, largely from the fact that even the digestive system is connected to testosterone development and even the processing of energy from the Next Level best thought of as their love for us, in the way they give of themselves to us in attention and opportunity that when entering the human vehicle/mind/soul stimulates the vehicle and the vehicle seeks to relieve itself of that energy according to the ways it is genetically and socially programmed to doing, often through loving relationships with other beings, often sexually. To reverse that programming may be near impossible entirely while still operating as a human. That’s not a reason to not try, but even with effort to minimize that activity or to go cold turkey will not entirely hault the processes, which Do addressed, when we’d report that we had a nocternal emmission, that if you did nothing to stimulate it, like touching oneself or entertaining thoughts, etc, then you’ve done the best you could, so don’t need to dwell on feeling guilty because it’s just the relief valve letting that energy off the top. It’s not a way to justify continued sexual pleasure indulgencesk, it’s a perspective that is not so damning, as many of the religious make it seem with all their judgementalism. jesus didn’t say sex was a sin(missing the mark) but he certainly demonstrated that it was necessary to overcome for “sake of membership in the KIngdom of Heaven”, though that’s been distored into a way to segregate people into categories of holiness – the priests and monks vs the lay believers that Paul of Tarsus led the way in constructing. Becoming a monk can have it’s value but if it’s not for the right reasons and/or not under the direct physical tutoring of a genuine member of the Next Level, it can actually entrench one into thinking they are serving God by their celebacy when they are more in service to a false God. Certainly sexuality is among the biggest addictions that turns our eyes to sense gratification and therefore away from “giving our all to the next level”. As I mentioned, food is also a big form of sense gratifcation and I saw that big time in the classroom. One classmate at one point hide an apple under their mattress. We were never starved, though we did have all sorts of guidelines surrounding food consumption, but it wasn’t an area I had any problem with, so it looked trivial to me to hide food. In the classroom we didnt’ go to the refrigerator whenever we might want to. Ti and Do were trying to help us break the many habits people have surrounding foods, likes and dislikes, when to eat, volume to consume and it’s priority and what happens if we don’t get it. This discussion can be elaborated on a great deal but I’ll save that and instead try to focus on how we can please the next level now that was provided us in writing by Do and by jwnody a closer helper to Do, whom I also worked with and did some public presentations with, who wrote some documents that are posted on the HeavensGate.com web site. In one in particular she said that, to be “saved”, meaning qualifying for a future progam to eventually overcome the world and graduate the human evolutionary kingdom, the process now is to simply “believe in Ti and Do, which would
include all they were about (though that is a continuous adventure, since I’m still discovering how much I failed to absorb of their teachings) and the second part of that is to demonstrate that belief by telling others about Ti and Do – that’s the taking up of one’s cross part, that Jesus was very clear about, called “cross bearing” because, though we don’t try to stimulate hatred against us, it will come so there will be ramifications to sharing what is otherwise completly unpopular, but being willing to take baby steps and more in that direction, which includes asking Ti and Do how and when and to whom and taking stabs at it, allows us to grow more connected to Ti and Do and to then receive more of their “mind”. The main object of the classroom is to take one’s mind off of self and put one’s mind more and more onto their Older Member. Doing so will assist in fluffing off certain human characteristics. It doesn’t involve judgeing anyone worthy or not, though one should keep in mind that it does no good to throw pearls before those that would trample them and even use them against us as we want to be able to maximize whatever time is left to share this info as a time will come when the jig is up and the Next Level is satisfied that they gave anyone that had a running chance enough chances. If you ever did decide to do something akin to a castration which I am not encouraging or discouraging, I would keep it between yourself and your Older Member who I believe to be Do as it’s very easy to by taking such an action to then think of yourself as advanced above others, which is yet another addiction that we can see throughout all the religious and new age spiritual groups, though they talk humility. Jesus put it this way. When you give alms, don’t let your right hand know what your left hand is doing and do so in secret, the same way to pray (ask for help, strength, the Older Member’s will (how we might serve better or next, which is a never ending advancement for those seeking to move into the next level.))

Ferg wrote on December 21, 2009 at 4:51pm

thanks for responding to my question in such detail, with such haste, ive been out of town for the past couple of days sorry i couldnt respond sooner. i think that if someone were to castrate themselves they would have a clearer train of thought, (wouldnt worry so much about the flesh) ive watched a lot of the movies with Do and am pleased that i can listen to his teachings… im also very glad i can ask you about my questions and listen to your advice, im going to make it a point to check out the broadcasts that i missed and look forward to hearing you speak on thursday again. Have a wonderful day happy holidays this season!

Sawyer HeavensGate wrote on December 21, 2009 at 6:26pm

did you see the beyond human series of video tapes of Do on youtube? If so on the first one and actually on a few others after that you will see my younger clean shaven, short haired classroom appearance sitting next to jwnody, one of my classmates in a female vehicle who I worked a lot with. She, as well as others also wrote a bunch of statements that are posted on heavensgate.com free for download. And if you want to download and listen to tapes of Ti and Do talking to students in the 1980’s they are at: http://www.4shared.com/dir/14534948/45fa3e91/sharing.html

Let me know if you have any problems accessing any of this information. I will also try to post things on my various blogs as well. I just lack time to do all I want to do. Oh, yes I have a youtube channel named: 3spm where I’ve posted several simple video’s I garage produced.

Other than that I’m glad to answer any questions honestly as I have nothing to hide and I guess I’ll see you on the broadcasts. Give me a sign if your in the chat room so I know it’s you.

and thanks for the holiday wishes. I like this time of year if only for at least the sense that it’s about Jesus and the Next Level though it’s such a commercial enterprise. The other day my 12 yr old girl told me to stop talking about Jesus and I said to her, do you know what christmas is and I told her it was jesus birthday (representatively) and she hadn’t remembered that. She’s in her own world and I don’t try to indoctrinate her though I do try to let her know what I believe.

I wish you a great holiday as well. That’s some strange looking icon your using. I’m not sure what that is.
Ferg wrote on December 22, 2009 at 1:19pm
i was listening to all the beyond human series but i had other tabs open ill check that out as well as the older recordings of Ti and Do. Ive looked at some of the videos from the 3rd stone peoples movement (pretty cool stuff) but ill have to give it another look im sure theres more info there… ill give you heads up if im able to make it thurs. funny story about your daughter heh 🙂 Merry Christmas 😛 the avatar picture is of beaker from the muppet babies on some cartoon I changed it to the muppet version, look familiar ?

Ferg wrote on December 23, 2009 at 6:56pm
ill try to make it to the broadcast tomorrow, later!

Graz wrote on January 14, 2010 at 7:07pm
avatar is going to be great. i will be swatting aliens like they were mosquitos. particularly if the ganja cookies ive cooked hit the spot. they did for les claypool. so im feeling pretty confident

Graz wrote:
im just curious ferg. why do u think enjoying sexual pleasures is a sin?

Sawyer HeavensGate wrote:

I know you were addressing Ferg but I’m going to weigh in a bit. It’s only a “sin” for those that want it to be a “sin”. In other words, the term “sin” which has all this conotation of being bad to do, should never have been translated into one word. There are hundreds of words like this in the record books some of which are compiled in the book called the Bible. Sin ment “missed the mark”.

When someone sets up a goal and they don’t hit it as well as they’d like then they simply missed it, so what do they do. Well if they want to try again they do. If they don’t they don’t. It’s really just that simple, though I haven’t addressed sexualty and pleasure at all, nor your ganja cookies.

Graz wrote:
thats actually quite insightful. so in fact when people say its a sin they are infact claiming what ever it maybe in reference to its only sinful to them because they believe it to be. thats interesting.

of course i dont believe sexual pleasure and ganja cookies are sinful as they do not harm other people or animals. well not yet at least.

Ferg wrote:
the mind is a part of the body so sexual thoughts can distract (spell?) the mind from actual relization of whats going on around you (the important things) so being all caught up in the body and the flesh is kind of sinful

Ferg wrote:
missed the end of last weeks broadcast and yesterdays – bummer

Sawyer HeavensGate wrote:

The podcast is available for free download at the site if you want to catch up.
I presented some results from this weeks research of how the Level Above Human members do have phyisical “flesh” bodies, though the “flesh” is of a different quality spoken of as “celestial flesh” that thrives by the force of the soulbody that occupys it but also benefits from external light photosynthesis.

The other aspect I find increasingly interesting is that one “key” to indentify Next Level members and interface with humans on Earth, via “signs” and via face to face relationships, again some of which evident in the historic records is: “Two”, as in Two Witnesses and Two Lampstands, and Two Olive Trees, etc. the incidents of Two angles in at least three occasions, etc.

I will have a paper about this but there is evidence that the “second coming” as it’s called would be TWO people from that Kingdom and of course I am convinced it was Ti and Do for many reasons and I am also about to provide a detailed analysis of the book of revelations, sort of a chapter at a time but chapter 12 indicates that one of those Two witnesses would be in a female body.

So that’s a tiny synopsis of last nights broadcast.

Ferg wrote:
what text refers to the two lampstands?

Sawyer HeavensGate wrote:

rev 11 and in Zechariah 4: Below with my added interpretation of the last verse. Zech doesn’t speak to Two candlestick/lampstands, just one but ties in the 2 olive trees around 1 lampstand in the middle.

It’s interesting how each lampstand has 6 branches, thus times two is 12 branches – the 12 churches or groups of believers since the current experiment began, I was looking at as the souls that were planted by each visit from a member of the Next Level (though the same crew each time and same multigenerational hands on application (Father and Son, Older and Younger member (though both our Older members). It’s origin comes from the menora given to build by the Lord to moses for use in the holy of holies. Ti and Do treated their quarters as a holy of holies. When camping their tent was a little more removed from the others, at first in an area even a 1/2 miles away, but gradually closer and then when they had a small trailor students were prohibited from walking around the back of the trailor and would only come up to the front when they asked us to. I always wondered why. I know many would think they were trying to hide something but I don’t think that was it. I Mean they had curtains and blinds on the windows so if they wanted to they could hide themselves. I think it had to do with the discarnates each of us naturally entertained. As students left and remaining students got under control or even rid of certain discarnates, it seemed they could be closer and closer to us physically. They actually did talk about that. We and our discarnates and general negative thinking that again was to be expected to have as that is in large part what most needs to be under control, overcome,which when your seeking to graduate means everythng other than what the older members give us to think about and do is negative but they only coached us on that cleansing process gradually according to the slowest student (that wasn’t for other students to determine).

Anyway, here is the zech section but I suggest you search for everythign to do with lamps and candlesticks and olive trees and branches and oil and if yiou have time, look at the hebrew and/or greek of whatever english words you can, to broaden the flavour and even meanings. Theres plenty of free bible software to download and strongs concordance is online to help with that. Strongs just doesn’t have a good search tool though it does have the versus and hebrew and greek word meanings.

Zec 4:1 And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep.
Zec 4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
Zec 4:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
Zec 4:4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
Zec 4:5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
Zec 4:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
Zec 4:7 Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
Zec 4:8 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Zec 4:9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.
Zec 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.
Zec 4:11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
Zec 4:12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
Zec 4:13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

Here is the clincher that is saying that these two olive trees ARE Christs, thus the so called Second Coming, though as this was said before Jesus and his Father came, it would also work as a prophecy of them as well.

Zec 4:14 Then said he, These are the two anointed(consecrated light producers) ones(son/grandson – member of a group, of God), that stand(appointed,establish,endure) by the LORD of the whole earth.
Post #23Mark Versteeg (University of Sydney) wrote13 hours ago
I am just wondering if you believe or feel that the descriptions given are in fact a mechanism of vetting the true believers (or at least thoes who are truely ready for the next level) from the ones who are not. In other words, a methodology of almost selecting people for thier analytical abilities so that a consistant attribute of flexibility can be ensured?

After watching the “beyond human series” I often wonder what Do would say with regard to world events since his exit in terms of recycling. I consider a few years here and there to be negligable in terms of human and geologic history. I did think that perhaps the war on terror and the natural disasters that have occured since 1998 could perhaps be viewed through the lens of “recycling” and the lead up to a spading under.

Sawyer HeavensGate wrote:

Yes I do agree that the Next Level is vetting. The classroom was that from the get go though I didn’t think of it that way at the time. Look at the facts. They put out the message from 1973-mid-1975 when Ti in April called that part of the “harvest” closed. After probably some 200 or so becamse followers in that time period, 96 remained but no conscious vetting had begun. We gathered in veedavou area of the medicine bow national forest in southern wyoming and began to have meetings with Ti and do, still spoken of by us as Bo and Peep (Do and Ti). The message was a catch all that could appeal to religious and non-religious, but only really to the fringe of any number of belief or non-belief systems, in part that their language was designed to appeal to in calling their offerring Human Individual Metamorposis and as a task for the Evolutionary Level Above Human, a physical place of many members that we were prospective candidates for membership if we were willing to give our all to enter the “process” equated with a metamorphosis to emerge a new creature without the previous kingdom level limitations. These terms shot accross the bow of virtually everyone. All of a sudden the pagans were uplifted as it was a “many membered kingdom” not just a Father, Son and Holy Ghost and some etheric angles of some sort. It was physical, no longer thought again as etheric and non-matter related (though their bodies were considered to be made of a different biological structure than humans, as it even indicates in 3-4 biblical records), which would appeal to the more practical minded. They spoke in terms of this next level being evolutionary thus aligned with “nature” in a progressive fashion where there was an evolution of both mind(spirit/soul) and body/flesh and it’s facilities – everlasting, etc. They addressed the spirit world as an undesirable pursuit. They called “discarnates” Influences taking some of the mystic away, as did the other terminology jiving with how jesus said upon his return he would speak “plainly” of the kingdom, no longer in story and largely symbolic or figurative form, (though that still exists in the examples Ti and Do used of humans being like wild horses captured by the rancher to try to tame into voluntary service). And they aligned with the judaic/christian and to some degree buddist/islamic religious movements by reference to their being the Two Witnesses in rev 11 that goes back into the two lampstands and the two olive trees, etc. They at that time expected to be bumped off nearly right away and there certainly was great hatred of them and their message, that I witnessed first hand but which they did seek to avoid though were willing to give themselves over to. It’s interesting that the greek word for “witnesses” is rooted in “martus” meaning “giving honest testimony with the prospect of being killed for doing so” – martyrdom (which any desire among the students conscious or subconscious was actually considered to be something to additionally overcome because largly that idea of becoming a martyr was yet another ego trap – doing so to be “special” or a “hero” instead of the result of simply revealing new and challenging updated truthes about the realities of the Level Above Human.

So what happens at veedovou. Some students continue to smoke pot and have sex thus Ti and Do call us together and say, it’s time to get down to business. If you want those things this is not the place for you. A few drop away. Then each student is vetted by some assigned by Ti and Do to interview each student in their camp( as we were spread out so not to draw too much attention, into about 6-7 camps (not sure) with Ti and Do’s camp seperate as well, though they had a small contingent of helpers with them in their camp. When winter started to approach they decided we’d move south and it was snowing the day we left and we headed to Utah, near salt lake city. This was around november of 76. No sooner than we got to our second camping area in the Utah mountains that was very, very cold and snowy, do we find out that they had given instruction for some to go to one camp and another group to a different camping area. (There was always lots of shufflening of students among the camps before then). So Ti and Do came to the camp I was in, where there were about 70 members and told us that we’d made the “cut”. They said that 19 of our fellow students, they didn’t think were up to the task before us so they decided to seperate them into another camp. Within a week we moved from there heading further south and day by day someone would leave in the middle of the night. We didn’t know what happend with this smaller group until months later when we were told that Ti and Do still had occasional contact but had instructed them to locate near a large town and seek to get jobs and that if they continued their overcoming, they would be taken care of by the Next Level. (That group was attended for years by Ti and Do as it’s numbers dwindled and some got apartments. As it turned out one of those members during a period of time when they had no contact with anyone from the larger body for as much as a year he went out looking for Ti and Do. His name becames Drrody, Allan S. and he just happened to bump into Nrrody – Susan P. who was working in a hospital in Amarillo, Texas where we were living in trailors and then in a house and this was in about 1983. When he found us he was elated and he said he knew of another of the 19 that still wanted to find the classroom named Stlody – Steel. They both joined us and were among the 38 in rancho sante fe).

I will continue this description of the vetting progam as it by no means ended there.

Ferg William wrote:

seeing humans as animals in the big picture or whole scheme of things its like these people were there no matter how you look at it this group of 13 or however many, they castrated themselves (some of them) and commited suicide under the impression the halle bop commit would pick them up…. right? so there existence is a part of history, if we are just animals with instinct to survive and procreate why did this happen? animals dont intentionally try to take their own lives, i have never met a human to go to the lengths to have pure bodies and minds as what it seems ti and do did… i read some of the comments people make its like they are so close minded ti had to believe in what he did otherwise he wouldn’t have had the guts to go through with it… he had to have self control in order to remain selfless..the way they went about it, with wrist bands and the away team on their clothes, i feel like this is natures way of saying we are falling into sin (the rest of us) its like these people didnt want to be here on earth, only to serve the purpose of vetting or whatever you call it… they’re bodies frighting the police that came in finally to see them all laying there same clothes kicks and bags over their heads their clothes saying (im going away!) …gave them the impression that this commit would draw their souls up…what scientific proof or reasons did they have for believing this? ? . were these people already evacuated from the human vehicle? were there minds already in heaven as they lived their lives here on earth…

Sawyer HeavensGate wrote:

First off, the term vetting perhaps means something different that the way I was intending it’s use. To me it means being “selective” but that’s not based on a whim or personal like or dislike or personal agenda as would be the case for a human to do it. The reason was because these souls absolutely needed to be as close as was possible to “viable” as Ti and Do said. If they were not close to viable then they needed further lesson ground, which at that point, for those that stayed in the class to the exit, probably means being given a temporary vehicle again but more in their environment, perhaps on board a spacecraft that could be tasked to Observe human activities and/or deliver messages or act as an envoy to humans (what angles and watchers are = task assignments). If they were not viable it also means they will still need to have mammalian styled vehicles. It seems to our history this is what happened in the past resulting for some a decision to depart the Next Level’s service and reinstitute relationships with the humans that had never been in a direct Next Level classroom under an Older Members teachings.

But Ferg for the record there were 38 students that layed down their lives at first and 3 that followed within a year afterwards, all of whom I personally knew, though to varying degrees.

I forgot the number that castrated themselves but it was less than 10 I know and they were all males (something that had been considered but seemed inappropriate given the difficulty and danger to the vehicle involved. Note the Book of John where jesus is quoted as saying, “there are some eunuchs that are born eunuchs, some made eunuchs by men and some who make themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of Heaven’s sake”. It was the same for virtually any part of the body and even for their very life of the body. The physcial body is to put it plainly despensible WHEN and ONLY When one is WITH what they feel is their Older Member (Father) AND are doing so of their own free will (otherwise wouldn’t all the students or male students have it done) AND have convinced the Older Member that they were operating on their own free will AND most of all that the physically present Older Member feels his unseen at that time Older Member is giving the instruction that makes it permissible for students to consider, AND equally most of all from the students perspective that their motivation was NOT self-ish.

This is the crux of the reason I was NOT allowed to be castrated. I wasn’t doing it for Do, my Older Member. I did not love him enough to be allowed to proceed. I was doing it competitively and I can prove that by many of my actions in the years leading up to the day that srrody my partner and I were called to Do (and his 2 helpers Jnnody and Lvvody’s) quarters to proceed to have the castration done by Lvvody, what had been a consideration for at least 2 years hence.

It’s taken me even until right now to realize this. When it said, “make themselves eunuchs FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVENS SAKE”, I thought that meant “for the sake of becoming a member of the kingdom of Heaven” which is in line with the idea that we “earn” our gift. That was always my mindset, that I was attempting to prove to Do I wanted to go all the way. Now that’s not entirely a bad thing, it’s just not a viable to survive birth mindset. As bad as it sounds from a human perspective that thinks we should all only believe in ourselves and not give over our will to another, it’s insane, but from the Next Level’s perspective if we are not willing to give our ALL, lock stock and barrell we are not ready and able and therefore worthwhile to have join them as a next level member because until we get to that kind of “child” trust we are not trustworthy and they take their tasks in working a garden and helping to grow souls very, very seriously and have zero interest in anyone mucking it up in any way shape or form so they make it harder and harder to gain access to their ranks. Sure it looks to a human very dictatorial but here is the clincher,their WAYS, what we called the “ways of space” (deep space where only they can go, not permitting space aliens to travel except to the areas they allow), are where all our positive and more civilized and more just and more giving and higher standards and ways of working cooperatively come from. A human being without their guidence throughout history would not advance much further in behavior than most any animal species. They will advance technologically somewhat on their own (though in indirect ways even that is originally stimulated by the Next level, but through space aliens they allow to be around us and through various interface’s of thought).

After lvvody did the castration to surrody with jnnody as lvvodys nurse assistant, handing her surgical tools (as they had it all as Lvvody had been schooled as a nurse before joining the classroom and had her degree and during the classroom period had nursing jobs and the last one she had was working for an Orchiectomist for a year, assiting the surgeon in many orchiectomys – the removal of the testicles. I stood opposite Lvvody. Srrody and I had flipped a coin to see who would go first fullying expecting to have us both castrated. Do asked me before I flipped the coin if I had any reservations in doing this? I said, “well, my vehicle is not looking forward to it but I am overriding my vehicle” which Do said nothing to. Then during the beginning of the operation with Do present as well but no one else (and absolutely no one else in the class knew that this was taking place), Do said, “if this doesn’t bond us nothing will”. Then when srrody’s sack was stitched up with vent tubes inserted for drainage of fluids, something was wrong or seemed wrong to lvvody as Srrody’s vehicles sack gradually inflated like a small balloon and srrody was experiencing some pain from it. (srrody only received local anesthetics for pain – injected right into the testicular sack). Because of this unexpected complication that Lvvody’s experience did not know how to address (as she didn’t know what she had not experienced with her surgeon employer), Do was very disturbed and began to question whether he had stepped beyond Ti’s instruction and guidelines (that at that point was represented from what he clearly felt was a distant relationship with Ti who had left her body years earlier, thus was an “in spirit connection” he was seeking to be a link to us for. He said at that point, “Turn me into the police – I’ve crossed the line here”. At this point I almost in unisin with jnnody and lvvody said, “no way – we will fix this” and we three proceeded to form a plan. Do went to his quarters and we three then proceeded. We took srrody to a motel where I made some calls to clergy to see if anyone knew of anyone who had tried to be castrated. We made up a story about where we were and what had happened to not alarm authorities and find ourselves apprehended, saying our friend had been castrated in Mexico and we just learned of it and he was experiencing a problem. (It was interesting that before the castration surgury Do had us put up a sign over the room that was set up as a sterile operating room. This was in San Clemente, California. We were living inside a huge brand new warehouse in our trailors as strange as that sounds. Anyway, my phone calls were dead ends so we decided we couldn’t wait. Srrody wasn’t feeling better and lvvody’s attempts to clear the vent tubes did not resolve the problem, so we agreed I would take him to a hospital. We decided I could go alone with srrody as then if police got involved jnnody and lvvody would not become involved and it would not as easily get back to Do and become a disruption of the entire classroom undercover project. So I checked srrody in and stayed with him for some hours then returned to the hotel and went back the next morning and he was fine. It was a routine fix and when I came in he was sitting up and the nurses were in love with him and no one even asked me any questions. It was strange actually looking back. We were billed and no authorities ever gotinvolved at all. (I wonder if Ti saw to that). Oh, before we took srrody away from Do’s warehouse quarters Do asked us to contact lggody and jwnody and brief them. They were often Do’s closest helpers moreorless equal to lvvody and jnnody (who by the way were in female vehicles, as was jwnody). Srrody was released the next day and was happy as a lark and Do told me not to mention this to any other classmates until he get’s instruction to do so from Ti and then he also told me, proceeding with the operation for me was “on hold” as well, which I recall affecting me some in the direction of disappointment.

Now regarding HaleBopp. I was still in the class in 1993 when first were aware of astronomers watching an object beyond the pluto orbit that at some point was reported to have changed speed and at another course. All along we were expecting Ti”s crew. We did all sorts of things to see if Ti’s arrival and the end to our task needed to be stimulated by our readiness and that included our location on the planet and state of mind/readiness and qualificatiions/desire and availability – whether being in or close to a metropolitan area or in the moutains or desert mattered. Do had us investigate going to Australia and Haifa, Israel and Germany (iwhere they did end up setting up a mirrored Heaven’s Gate site, in case their actions caused the US based one to be taken down). Nieither Ti nor Do assumed anything. They sought to cover every angle and they did so amazingly cautiously and methodically which included what to express to us and what to check out without us which went into every detail of our physical and mental lives. They didn’t know for instance how long it would be and it took years to decide the option of taking our exit in our own hands. By our it was mostly the inner core of students of which I was often a part, but as this and that were ruled out (though Do certainly didn’t share everythng with even the so called inner core I speak of. I’m sure he spoke to lvvody and jnnody and others about things that he may or may not have felt to bring up to what I’m calling the inner core or “com center” or “satelitte 3”, the “overseers”.

And we’d attempted to leave by our own hand before that but Do called it off, even though every student at that time in 1993 didn’t realize what was happening when we began to fast on air, that after day one turned to water for two weeks in the desert just southeast of Phoenix, AZ. I consciously was prepared to fast until my body expired. But as I learned from Andody (who left the class shortly after the fast, a year before me, whom I am in regular contact with now) he didn’t think it was a possible exit point. But I recall Do saying, I thought in a group meeting that we were moving into the desert  to live and to fast to see if Ti will either come get us there or to expire our vehicles if Ti did not pick us up. Hearing this from andody really woke me up to how different we each were to what we absorbed and didn’t even after 18 or 19 years a dedicated as best we could member. I thought from day one that I would lose my life preaching the message while andody didn’t have that sense.

But that object we’d been watching by proxy, was hardly in the news much so we thought perhaps we needed to stimulate the oppostion to do us in. This thought became more prevlent to consider in witness to the David Koresh Branch Davidian massecur. I happened to be with srrody, my most frequent partner in Do’s quarters with lvvody and jwnody and lggody and jwnody when they lit the place on fire. Do as we all were shocked and appauled. I remember Do saying that he’s got to hand it the David Koresh followers – that they were willing to put it all on the line for what they believed, and I believe he wondered if our group members would do so. It wasn’t long after that that Do suggested in a meeting with the group that we purchase guns in case Ti might have us pose a threat to the government to do us in that way too. I can recall my vehicle bucking the idea of guns and I remember thinking, “what if Do asked me to kill someone” and a part of me thought he would never ask that of us and another part felt like that would be too much and another part thought, perhaps I might. This was all in my head and I put it aside. “more vetting to suggest such a thing?” Was that in a sense like Abraham being instructed to take his son’s life and then being stopped from doing so. I know some that think that must be some insane god to instuct such a thing, but then The Lord didn’t allow him to, so what does that look like – it’s a test of faith.  And sure the Luciferians play on that and influence humans to kill and say a voice told them to do it and no doubt they did hear a voice just like Paul of tarsus heard a voice. It is for this reason that we NEED a face to face Older Member who won’t abuse us in any way shape or form whether we know it or not but will put us to various tests, some on purpose and some by just following his instructins that never came as a voice in one’s head.

But what Do said about hale bopp, as posted on heavensgate.com they didn’t know whether or not there really was a spacecraft in the hale bopp comets tail. It was the “marker”,which is another word for “sign from/in the heavens” as Jesus said we should expect. Do felt Kohotek was also a sign in the beginning of their task in 1973.

If you all read Rio’s book,they also experienced seeing beings in their house (what we called a simulated “craft”) attending to certain classmates. A number of classmates witnessed this on the same night and some just recalled it as if it was a dream, Rio being one of these. This wasn’t the first time some saw beings in that way but this was the biggest and the most widespread event of this kind. By the way Ti and Do had many so called UFO encounters but none as real as a nuts and bolt space craft and some were in their dreams. But they didn’t receive instructions in dreams, just certain insights. Instruction came by having ideas and they knew they could not trust those ideas (or their brains interpretation of the ideas until they found colloborative events and circumstances in real life, though students communications to them or news or other thoughts and ideas and observations in general, often over lengthy time periods and then when they decided to move on any one idea, they did so by taking only tiny steps and then stopping and checking “is this the best choice”. Frequently they found what to do from what they realized they should NOT do. That’s why Do stopped the desert water fast after 14 days and we went down to Yuma and then on to california again and prepared the beyond human series for a new public (second) mission that at first Do thought we might do from our secluded crafts. Then he wondered if we should send a few students out. Jwnody and I were chosen for this task and we created a video and tried to get a major Christian Satelitte TV network to upload it, but they turned it down and then Do said that jwnody and I would go out alone which was a short lived idea, which really put me to the test again as I’d been though many tests, as my vehicle was infatuated with Jwnody’s mind and body though I sought to stifle such thoughts and feelings and hide them, though I was deceitful in that regard as I hired Jwnody to be my helper when I became the pastry chef a the five star Bradford Hotel in Austin Texas and I’d find myself looking down her shirt when we worked side by side almost uncontrollably.

I also tried to be castrated a year earlier than the time when Do called Srrody and I to have it done, as I just explained. I was going to go to Mexico.We were living/working in Albuquerque and it’s a long story but I had this sense that srrody was going to ask Do to proceed with getting castrated and I had the strong sense while I was at my programming job that I better act fast so srrody doesn’t beat me to the punch as srrody was always beating people to the punch, so yes this was a type of competition that was purely stimulated by students selves though Ti and Do did expect showing our “love” by beign johnny on the spot and such, which srrody was perhaps the best at, even to a pestering degree Do expressed to the group on more than one occasion, so he had to restain himself in this regard while others needed to take his example to heart more and light a fire under themselves to not be so slow or casual or afraid of looking like a goody two shoes all of which I certainly dealt with feeling. I was getting paid that day so I called the craft and asked those manning the communications center if I could speak with Do and they put me through. This was not normal to do. I had never done that before or anything of that sort except in one other similar circumstance to try to protect Ti and Do from being discovered by the public. So Do came on the phone and I told him I needed to leave the class. This was about 1991-2 before the desert fast. He said, “why?” I said, I didn’t want to say. He said, “is it about what we’d been talking about?” (The entire subject of castration was instigated by Do one day when he gathered just the male students and told them that he had had a nocternal emmission but was unaware of his stimulating it nor was it linked with a sensual dream, but because of that he was examining having a castration procedure done on himself and he descibed the procedure and over the course of the next week spoke with individuals about in though notes and in some cases in person to person. In fact, one day, 12 students were called to his “craft” when he had a seperate craft in Cole Creek canyon, Colorado, just west of Denver and we students had a craft in Littleton, Colorado. When we got there, for me considering myself “one of the 12” so to speak (an ego kind of thought) though it did include lvvody, jnnody who were already there, lggody, jwnody,chkody, rthody,srrody,hvvody,srfody,mrcody and two others I don’t recall right now, Do told us of his castration plans for himself and asked each of us if we would have reservations about such a procedure for ourselves. Hvvody said he did and was nearly in tears over it. I was later partnered with hvvody when hvvody decided to leave the class over that and I am in regular contact with him now.

So Do asked me what my plan was. I said, I’m going to go to Mexico with my paycheck and figure out how to find someone to do it. Then he asked me to wait until he had a chance to talk to me, so he arranged for classmates to come pick me up from work and I went back to the craft and sat with Do who then told me that just this morning two other students approached him expressing they too wanted to proceed with getting the operation and that he was still checking with Ti to see if this was appropriate to allow the students to do. He was most concerned whether such a castation would diminish the challenge some of us needed to have a formitable opposing challenge of staying on the straight and narrow by having to work agaisnt the huge booger that sexualty provides. From the beginning it was known that we’d picked the packages we had,that is with the Next Level’s help to provide the degree of challenge befitting the needed building of what Ti called our mind’s muscle. He wonderedi if taking away that force, largely the main testosterone producer in the body would make it easier and thus prolong or derails the maximum opportunity we each needed to become a viable spirit birth.

Keeping that energy in and redirecting it does build one’s soul body force. But if done for “self” it adds to one’s ego as they become aware of more and feel more of that force and even see results in different ways within the human kingdom – more successes in certain pursuits, more magnetism, etc. Thus the reason we NEED a physically present older member to give all that energy to the service of, to please them, to attempt to be like them in everyway. By give, it’s a distortion to think we give it to antoher by having sex wtih them in thought or deed. That acutally wastes that energy and builds a habit of giving it away though for humans it does seem to keep the vehilce more viral and even phyiscally healthy to be the best reproducing machine possible but for those seeking to transcend the human condition it’s then one more thing to not waste.

I hope it is becoming so, so evident that this Do was far,far from an insane evil minded controlling egotist. I don’t have to convince anyone of that. I just need to tell the truth about what happened inch by inch and then it’s up to each who sees it to be prepared to accept that he was far, far from what he’s been portrayed as.

And I still have not told you many many other things.

But Ferg the reason this happened is because we are NOT just animals with instinct to survive and procreate. We would be had the Next Level not provided another option. Had they not given us a piece of their literal mind that is essentialy accomplished by their sending their membership into our envioronment and showing us they exist and providing opportunities for us to come to know them and even how to make the transition out of the human limited condition, then we would still be only thinking about survival and procreation and survival would morpf into greed and even thinking of ourselves as creator gods as we see in much of the new age spiriutal movements.

Flesh and bone did not reveal this to you, that animals will never, ever give their lives for any other animal with one exception I am aware of. They will attempt to fight to the death to protect their young. But some will fight a bit but if they think the fight will be too big they will run away and let their young be eaten. And of course animals will at some point say good bye to their young and say you are on your own while some will even consume some of their young when they instinctually seem to think some will not be able to survive.

Humans are moreorless made of the same genetic flesh and thus the same genetic programming,that is until the next level implants some vehicles with implanted souls and/or their information – by spreading their truth and some believe it and by doing so open up a channel either to an existing soul still in our environment or to be given a soul. There are different types of souls given too and of course different degrees of what each soul does with their opportunity from ignoring what it’s set of soul programs stimulate – namely continuous seeking to diverting it into some religious oranti religious but still very limited pseudo awakening mostly in word alone.

This is why each who begins to graft to the next level’s vine need to “stand up” for the information -not keep their “light” received under the bushel basket and be prepared for the ramificaions that will often cause the vehicle to lose it’s life. But if we hold it in to instead try to save our life in this world then we lose our opportunity to obtain the more real life the information promises, however as long as we are still in a vehicle we can “repent” – Change our mind and receive remission of all past “sins” (missing the mark) freed from our Karma BUT that’s a day by day condition. There is no once saved always saved. There is no remission of sins forever when we are not continually striving to increase the degree in which we seek to give to the Next Level’s service.

Ti occupied female vehicle but do does tend to use the word “he” to describe members of the Next Level.

Yes and when the authorities entered that house they knew this was very out of the ordinary. They said it didn’t feel like the many crime scenes they’d attended before. They were shocked and in awe just like in revellations 11 and what did they do in the eyes of the world, at least what impression did they leave…that they believed they were ascending though or into heaven’s gate agains just like in rev 11 and in the media’s eyes and all those who realized they had made a huge spash before,in 1975-6 internationally they were “standing up again” (resurrection from the dead(the normal human condition of eventually perishing after spending some time in the spirit world, that is until it’s recycle time, that for some spirits is extended by the Next Level’s choosing to contain certain discarnates and space aliens so at the approrpriate time they can once again be allowed to influences humans who are new soul implants, to give them a challenging job of ovecoming towards their own viablity and thus next level membership.

Scientific proof to believe this? Well that’s hard to see but yet it’s easy to see. The science comes in the willingness to proceed a step at a time towards belief, testing it all the way, not doing anything we feel uncomfortable about in the least and recognizing when someone or something is seeking to compromise our deepest sense of what is right and good. It becomes a type of “common sense” and intuition is developed. WE can always choose to use that intuition for profit and gain popularity for it or we can realize that there is frankly obviously more than meets our eyes so why not seek from the highest source we can imagine, even willing to trust someone on the basis of what we can’t deny seems to be “beyond human”.

jesus taught us to be above human, above because of it’s selflessness and we can see that if we were all selfless this world would be a utopia. And the buddha’s taught that too, though of course their teachings have been nearly lost, at least to most who use them as figureheads alone.

yes and no regarding their minds already being in heaven. Heaven in one sense is where your heart is.In that way they were all in heaven but it’s also in degrees and the option always exists to leave that graft, though once one has a next level body , it is no longer equipt with the reproductive plumbing so is incorruptible as it says in various places in the bible anther of the few places paul seemed to get it right.

Graz wrote:

so ferg, if what u are saying is correct, why did evolution make sexual interaction so enjoyable?

i kind of agree in some ways that sexuality can be negative to the human soul, but only if that soul is thinking about it all the time and not engaging in it.

but i just cant see how something that is natural can be looked at as being sinful. ok, its also valid to believe it should only be apart of our thoughts when we reproduce, but then nature didnt create us in the same light as most other animals so i believe nature intended and wanted us to engage in sexual activity for pleasure.

and nature dont lie or come up with bullshit. its pure truth because it is pure in its elements, unperverted by humanity.

Sawyer HeavensGatge wrote:

What’s so different between humans and animals anyway? Do you know that if a part of the brain is disconnected or disabled you could still talk fine and be completly understood by others but would not be able to distinguish all the majorand minor nuances to speech and sound as much, even so little that while others hear it as normal speech you would hear your own speech as a person with a severe talking abnormality to where it really does sound like a dog barking?

Another huge point to this conversation is “where did nature come from”

If we didn’t create nature then how can we know nature intended us to have sex for fun, all because it feels good. To some people it doesn’t feel so good acutally. It also feels good to inject heroin so does that mean we were intended to do it. For some it feels good to hurt another. Feeling good is trivial to thrive on. Sure it’s an option but it is a dead end option and sure we all probably do something because it feels good – eating ice cream is a popular one but believe it or not, if eating ice cream was a goal to not allow control over us, as I’d bet it does tend to controll some,then IF a choice is made to not have anything in control over the greater part of ourselves – our soul evolution then if one was determined to lick (pun intended) the chosen problem and slipped and ate some when they wished they hadn’t, then they would be “sinning”.

For those that want to purify themselves as much as possible to be found worthy to enter the Level above Human, all things human and animal like will have to be under controll and especially sexuality as because of it’s nature, has a great deal of power over us and energy expenditure mentally and physically to redirect into learning more important lessons.

Ferg Wrote:

interesting story and well put… where to start… do you know what food or drink they ingested to kill themselves? we are no different from animals. we are conscious of our existence and are evolved from simple thinking creatures, when an animal gets caught in a trap, it will chew its arm off to escape. so humans procreate simply to continue the species, which will eventually die, continuing the circle of life and death… Graz Mataz i think we are the same as animals, and sex is continuing life, which sucks occasionally, so i can see it as a bad thing…

Sawyer HeavensGate wrote:

Good points on the animals even willing to lose a limb to survive overall – goes right to what Jesus said, if your eye offends you it would be better to pluck it out and live with one less eye than to lose your chance to enter the Kingdom of heaven and the same example with a hand and the same example with one’s sexuality even to the physical degree of castration, which by the way some essenes (considered a radical jewish sect that seemed equally aligned with Enoch and Moses teachings). Where people freak out at these ideas of sacrifice of even a part of the body is being unable to fathom Jesus really meaning that but it was far from the only examples of how Jesus thought of the body as eventually all aspiring members to the Kingdom of Heaven must “die in christ” in other words lose their life while in belief of and in practice of the teachings which will result at one time or another with death at the hands of a human that for whatever reason finds their talk and influence on others a crime punishable by death. If we try to save our life, by hiding what we know then we stand to lose our potential greater life in the hereafter eventually. The next level doesn’t give up on their students easily. They get many chances but to take that for granted is a distortion that religion justify by the premise that if you belong to such and such an organization that claims to be connected then as long as you live by a certain moral code, you will be found to be in good stead with.

Even still Jesus did NOT say we MUST lose our eye or hand or testiciles (when we lack control over those parts that continuously compromise our staying on the straight and narrow “overcoming” process. He said it would be “better” to lose them than lose our opportunity to graduate into his kingdom as eventually all our bodies die and are lost anyway. However this can be distorted into thinking by doing something to our body we are earning the reward, like flogging self or piercing one’s hands and feet and carrying a cross or tempting the lord by playing around with venomous snakes and drinking poisons on a misinterpreation of what Jesus was quoted to say.

For instance Do said to the males that were having problems with sensuality that they could come up with whatever they wanted to try to get control over that urge, but he wouldn’t give us examples. We already talked about castration and while our older member is with us, to decide to say…castrate oneself as the Essenes were reported to be doing – smashing their testicles with big rocks-wow that does a number on my head, would be inappropriate to do withoiut checking with that present Older Member first, though that can be a fine line of when to take strong initiatives). However the reason for checking in that circumstance would have to do more with the ramifications of such an action. For instance what was most important to Ti and Do, but the entire project of preparing the students for their graduation which entailed helping them decide if this was truely what they wanted and pressing forward to accomplish it in a timely way. Tothis end anything that might interfer, threaten stopping the task or threatening any of it’s participants voluntary continuation in the program (like by investigators and cult deprogrammers that we did have documented proof were looking for us for years, sent by various member’s vehicular families) was of the utmost priority concern. Thus should a student take an action that might put that security in jeorpardy, they would certainly be up in arms about it. Say someone severed their own testicles off for instance and it got infected or didn’t heal and we couldn’t stop the bleeding and they had to be taken to a hospital or say they died in Ti and Do’s care, all by their own choice to be a zealot for god so to speak, that would be not only a concern for that individual but moreso since it was their choice however seemed to be stimulated by the teachings it could easily lead to police involvment and a complete disruption of an otherwise very delicate and controlled accellerated overcoming classroom, then jeopardizing the students from what they too were working towards. Sure the Next Level could have done something to “fix it” but that’s not the way the Next level generally works. Sure they can recoop and always let nature takes it’s course, postponing the graduation, saving the nearly viable souls for a new opportunity but we don’t  know just how delicate nearly viable souls are. A prize flower can always be killed and may or may not survive and bloom.  And I saw some of these concerns right up front.

One student, called brnody, a female in her late 30’s when she joined from an Oklahoma City meeting, a few years into joining with us started to have detiorating health manifest as what seemed to be a resurgence in a childhood type of polio. She at first needed crutches and then was in a wheel chair diagnosed by docters, as when Ti (who was an accomplished nurse before she and Do awakened to their task) didn’t know what to do for her, had her see, called osteoperosis, years later really started going downhill and Do was concerned that she could literally “die” in our care. I was an overseer and was working very close with Do on many projects by then. His first concern at that time was the classroom’s continuence. He had already by then tried to do many, many things for brnody’s health so there was no neglect of her. For instance she had all sorts of medications, we’d tried all sorts of healthy diets – fasting, herb and homenopathics, vitamins, raw food programs – not only for her but for other’s ailments. She and I had colonic irrigations, we had exercise programs forher. Myself and others were on a schedule of regular massaging of highly inflamed leg joints. We had six of us (me included trying to “lay hands” on her. She had countless doctors visits and nothing was working and I can talk to this in terms of discanated influences – because some physical ailments are amplified or even partially caused by discarnates that died with similar or even specific ailments when they died thus if they hang around us and we take in some of their “mind”(programming) that includes their ways, we then accept their entire package that includes their encoded memory of whatever physical problems their vehicle had before their death. Ti had addressed this with brnody, that she was being permissive to influences. In particular brnody’s biggest booger so to speak, what kept her from overcoming but which was also her biggest ticket to a viable birth was in the form of “control”. She sought to have control over everything in her life and in the world was very good at it, was a manager of others in various workplaces I beleive. But in the class, we were learning to relinguish such control, giving over that control to the Kingdom of God(next level) through their present reps Ti and Do, which meant brnody’s learning to give walking papers to whatever discarnates were with her that were beneficial while in the world but were now something to get rid of. So she was very, very stubborn while one of our biggest lessons was to become very,very flexible. So what did the vehicle and it’s influences do – they got stronger, permitted by the Next level who actually assigned us certain influences to be like our mind exercise machines to help us rise to the occasion of boxing them out of the ring. Brndoy would have periods of time of certain success but then would like all of us backslide in our mental and physical disciplines and it becamse clear to Do that she was not thriving in the overall classroom experiential overcoming process so he assigned her a different task. We set up an apartment in Dallas, Texas (where we often lived)  and she was given that space to live in while Do and his helpers (lvvody and jnnody) worked with her needs. She got a job working for the folks that put on the tv show “Dallas” and she began to thive on her own as the classroom was a hothouse indeed, so was just too much for her. She needed a different circumstance. And as it turned out so did others, each for their own reasons. Thus about 6-8 students at varying times spent time in Dallas in 1-3 apartments in Dallas not knowing the whereabouts of the larger body of students or teacher(as Ti had exited her vehicle by then). She ended up still being crippled but she was able to function almost on her own, though with certain help from the state that she applied for – a device to take her wheel chair with her car and a way to use the gas and brake pedals with her hands, which also gave her some problems by then. I know about all this because I was one assigned to visit
her.Actually Jwnody and I becames overseers, in additin to some others to keep up with her and other’s circumstances and needs. But these were not monitored by the classroom. If they wanted to go back into human ways they were free to. For instance Tllody, who got his name because he was 6′ 6″ tall ended up getting a sports car and even a girlfriend. And I could tell stories about anyody and sngody and stlody and cddody (the only one that didn’t later rejoin the class and lay down his life with the others).

So what kind of cult leader would let that happen? This was the most extraordinary experience and mind boggling reality that had ever taken place on the planet, at least within our history books.

But to the point, Do was concerned that she might die in our keeping and it could bring an investigation onto him which would disrupt the final stage of classroom which at that time he didn’t know would encompass as this was all before I left in late 1994,though these in that “satelitte craft” did rejoin as a result of our 2nd public offerring in 1994, starting 1/1/94 when we’d broken all our leases and sold all the furniture of three homes to outfit ourselves forthe road, in vans with some camping gear and satelitte phones and such into 4 groups of 6 members each, that included going to Dallas (my group) and offerring the sateliite to rejoin the larger body as it was never assumed that they would, but they did.

So like animals, even the soul will do extraordiary things to survive which includes “laying down it’s physical wrapper” when the Older Members say’s it’s time for him to do so as well as for anyone who wanted to go with them.

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