Archive for September, 2011

By their fruit ye shall know them

September 27, 2011

Below is a Christian Blog I’ve been commenting on run by a man named Henry. Two of his regular blog readers, named Marianne and Hopeful_watcher have been adament in saying, believing that Ti and Do can’t possably be who They said they were/are as the Two Witnesses in Revelations and all the many, many other scriptural and prophetic evidences.

As a result of our converstation that began with some of Henry’s posts but had been continued from my frequent commenting on yet another Christian Blog run by L.A. Marzulli – see his site address at the end, Henry made a post linked below. I’m providing my latest response to Henry  here for the sake of some of  what I feel might be the clearest example I have realized of what Jesus meant by, “you will know them by their Fruit”.

There is a great example to me demonstated here. I can’t tell you how many times I read all this talk about “fruit” and in the last few weeks with the lengthy back and forth with these Christians, I struggled to try to offer them more concrete proof in Biblical scriptures. I’d look at these about “fruit” and wonder, what is the fruit? How do I best point the term “fruit” to something literal and tangible? That was just yesterday or the day before I asked that. Then today as I responded to Henry’s last post, it dawned on me and now I feel exceedingly silly to not  have seen this so clearly as I feel I do now.

Fruit is doing in thought/word and deed all the Kingdom of God has given us to do, as best we can. Even if we fail and fall short in this or that area, as long as we keep on trying which means asking for Ti and Do’s help, they will help us. If we don’t ask we don’t receive. So if there is anything that Ti and Do did brainwash us into doing (hopefully), It was asking help from the Evolutionary Level Above Human, in religoius terms the Kingdom of God, and as Jesus said, asking “Our Father in the literal heavens” and as Ti said, to make our committment with Do, her “son”, our Heavenly Father.

Ti always said to us: “Get your mind into your vehicle”. We even taught a parrot Ti and Do got for us when we were living near White Rock Lake in Dallas, the last Craft we saw Ti in as she left her body from there in 1985, I think it was May or June 19th (I’m mixed up about it now – It may be in the Purple book and/or on heavengate.com).

So first I will list Henry’s latest comment, but you can click the link to his blog post entitled, “the heracy of heaven’s gate” at the end of this post to see what he initially said and some of the back and forth.

Then after Henry’s latest comment, my response:

On that note, re: “by their fruit you shall know them”…

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither cana corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Henry said:

Sawyer,

I am open to discuss scripture with you on any topic. However the mistake you make is rather than examine what you have been taught against scripture you instead examine scripture against what you have been taught. You reject the teachings of Paul for example based on what you heard someone else teach instead of examining Paul’s teachings against the rest of scripture. I have looked at Paul’s teachings agains Christ’s own and I see no fault in it. When Paul went preaching the Gospel in Berea those that received him received the word with all readiness of heart but they did not accept the teaching at face value. They instead studied the scriptures daily to see if what Paul was teaching was true. As a result Paul called them more noble than those of Thessolonica. This is what you should have done.

The mistake you have made is the same thing you are asking me to do. You are asking me to take your word for it on what you say because someone was teaching you this thing for over 20 years – but the length of time something is being taught does not in itself substantiate the truth of it. Hence I have examined those things you have claimed against scriptures and found it wanting. To decry me and argue that I do not no anything about the group is neither here nor there. I do not need to know the history of a group to know whether or not certain claims they make are true or not. I have to examine what you claim against scripture and if it doesn’t tie in with scripture then it has to be rejected.

I have seen though that you have not addressed the things I have said to you on a scriptural basis but you have instead resorted to taking “pop shots” at me and then call my analysis of your doctrine petty. I think it is you who are being petty, not me. Instead of keep going back to what Ti and Do said you should be examining what Ti and Do said agains Holy Writ.

Sawyer’s reply:

Henry, Let me just say, I apologize if I’ve said disrespectful things to you. I’m not sure what they were at this time but you said “pot shots” so I no doubt have become somewhat defensive at times and aggressive as well. However, I do feel, the retorick from you and Marieanne and hopeful_watcher is often just as confrontational, which I don’t enjoy, but I’m not in this for enjoyment and it’s actually fine as we each have strong feelings about what we believe.

Nevertheless, what I feel happens a great deal in my opinion, which may in part be due to the nature of comments on the internet, lots of assumptions seem to be made. I know marianne said I assumed she was a Catholic, but if you go back to what I said, I simply said she “sounded like a catholic” regarding her talking about the “trinity” (not a word in the bible record I can find in any language).

Now I can see how looking at those words I used, she would think I was saying she was a Catholic, but in my mind I knew that I didn’t know. I don’t pretend to be psychic and neither were Ti and Do by the way. They said those techniques were actually “tricks” used by the “lower forces”, part of the things done to fool the elect.

I do agree with you that the length of time with anything is not proof of understanding even what we were apart of for that duration and especially applicable with things Biblical because it’s so, so easy and often the case that we are dumbfounded by what we read or think we understand it, but then some time later come back to it, or read someone else’s understanding or interpretation and we can often realize we didn’t understand it as well as we still might.

 The only reason I say I had 19 years of first hand experience with Ti and Do is so it’s clear this is not a second hand witness, thus one might give a little more credence to the experiences I relay about Them, not that one still doesn’t need to test it and challenge it and debate parts. I expect that. I really wouldnt’ not want someone to take my word for it. I’m not trying to persuade though I do feel the evidence I’m mounting is quite persuasive to anyone who is willing to give each piece a genuine consideration. Frankly, I take people’s outright rejection of Ti and Do, as you three have done from day one of my conversations about Ti and Do, which has extended itself from other blogs where I met you three, I believe as some evidence that it’s fearful to be willing to “consider” as you know that if you considered who Ti and Do might well be, then you’d be beginning to get sucked into it further and how upsetting that would be accross the board, in each of your lives and in you own personal skin.

 Maybe “fears” not the correct word, but we have no record in the Bible I’m aware of where Jesus or Moses commanded, “thou shall not examine what someone’s fruits are”, fruit being a huge point to discern, as we’d have to know what Jesus meant by it. Now perhaps you are thinking now, that you have examined the fruit of Ti and Do. Presumably you’ve read all my posts and examined some articles or whatnot somewhere that prompted this latest post claiming it as heracy and you have stated why, having to do with the 7th Angel/trumphet sounding, which I will address shortly following a few more days of study. I’ve been so occupied with so many other parts of revelations and the new and old testement over the last x years, in which no one has ever expressed what you have, so I have not had reason to dig into those depictions of the Kingdom of God’s manefestation of prophecy. So the time is right now I guess but as you know that’s a big topic that like most everything biblical is wrought with contraversy among Christians.

Now, perhaps I have not been clear about my position on Paul, which I believe in part was/is Do’s position though that’s not to say everything I might think/say about Paul can be assumed to be Do’s position as my experience with Do tells me I’d have to bring up to him each position I was taking independently as Do did quote one Paul quote once as his being supportive of it’s coming from the Kingdom of God’s representatives.

Our time with Ti and Do for 10 years and then with Do for the next 9 (for me) seldom had in debth talk about particular scriptures and when there was, it was 99% from the red letters – what Jesus was quoted to have said. Now it was from Do that I got the idea that Saul was entrapped by Lucifer. Do didn’t say why that I recall. Like I said, we had little Bible talk in detail. Now, if that makes you think He is automatically disqualified from being from the Kingdom of God, that’s your choice but if you see how many times Jesus quoted the OT, it didn’t seem to dominate the conversations the disciples noted or repeated that became inscripted.

It was after I had left Do and the group in 1994 and then after they “layed down their physical containers(bodies) that I gradually over years, beginning to come back to talking to Do in my head again and moving into wanting to be in their service again that I began to dig into scripture again.

While with Do, He at times did assign students to dig into scriptures and I was one of those and presented a report to the group on my study of the terms Resurrection, regeneration, raised up once. And while we were on the road, myself with a partner Ti and Do assigned me to spreak their message with, which was in 1975-6 I did a great deal of red letter study and the lost books of the bible and so forth and had many debates with many dozens of church members across the US, which was my biggest burst of bible study at that point in my life.

So when I examined Saul/Paul it wasn’t too hard to see the inconsistancies with Jesus, but that’s because I believed in Do so believed Saul was used by the lower forces to dilute and bring the antichrist (Lucifer and his fallen angels) hatred of the teachings of Jesus to light, by making this hater of Jesus and his disciples into a populist preacher, though any talk of jesus was then unpopular and resulted in Pauls martyrdom, today Paul is I’d say more popular than Jesus in terms of who is quoted more.

Now this being said, doesn’t mean in any shape or form that Paul didn’t become a genuine believer in Jesus and nor does it mean that everything that Paul said was unreferencable to what Jesus said. What so many do which is encouraged by the lower forces is to find one or two reasons to disqualify something to otherwise consider and thereby block all data related to whatever the subject of the data is.

Athesists who hate some of the aspects of religions often deny the planet had to have been created by highly intelligent supreme beings that were called in history the Kingdom of God. Many would rather believe Jesus never existed than consider that what many hate about religion and christianity in particular is those in such religions that demonstrate an absolute certainty that they understand reality, past, present and future, so claim the earth is just 6000 to 7000 years old, when there is lots of scientific evidence it is much older. And then as you know, all the hypocriciies of the organized church in the burning of so called witches and killings in the crusades, etc. which to me were not doing anything close to what Jesus said to think, say and do. It’s what the Luciferians do to try to get humans to see anything but the truth and the Kingdom of God sets this up as part of the formula that helps us “plants” grow. We have this “advasary”(satan) to spar agaisnt to build our armour through, what Ti called a “muscle” and a process like churning the cream to make butter or using great fire to purify the iron ore into steel or to get Gold from the ore.

Now I believe there is lots of evidence that many christians hold to the “word”, the bible in such a way that actually blinds them to the newness that Jesus would represent in any next coming which there is much scriptural evidence of. After all what are the characteristics, according to Jesus of would be false prophets: In summary, some will say they are actually Jesus the Christ. They will appear to be sheep but inwardly will be ravening wolves (after the genuine sheep to trick them to follow them rather than the genuine shepherd). And how do they portray being sheep? They wear sheeps clothing. In other words they appear to us as sheep. No where is that more obvious in many of the religious leaders of any and all faiths, but their fruit gives them away. Their fruit is not just what they say, but what they DO. If they talk about going after Osama Bin Laden because he is a devil to kill him and they call themselves christians then their fruit is certainly not from the “good” tree that came from our Father’s kingdom as we had that old lesson, Thou shall not kill. If they set up a huge institution, a mega church and they trade in real estate and don’t pay taxes and accumulate riches they stash away in banks, are they at all demonstrating the fruit Jesus would say was fruit? No, No, No and that is pretty clear. But if they give humanitarian help to whoever asks then in that way they are demonstrating some of what Jesus said to do in “love your neighbor as yourself”, the term love here must be with action as saying it and not walking the talk is against Jesus who said, “you praise me with your words but your heart is far from me” and many other scriptures. If we lend to someone and charge them interest, we are not demonstrating having Kingdom of God tree fruit.

So if we look at the behavior and ways over 24 years of Ti and Do what will we see? I’m almost willing to bet you and Marianne and hopefull_watcher have never gone to heavensgate.com to see what Ti and Do and students actually said and did over 24 years to determine if it resembled the Kingdom of God’s fruit or does it resemble the kingdom of Human as largly morphed into the kingdom of the luciferians thorns.?

The luciferians try to stick very close to what the Kingdom of God last did on Earth, so they create facsimili leaders. They often talk about Jesus and do humanitarian things and such and if there are some that want to give their all to God, they see to it that an organization exists to give some a way to make their giving their all into an acceptible and even highly esteemed effort. They have schools that teach scripture, (though they stay locked in a very particular opinion/translation about scripture and select primarily the scriptures they can most easily justify for the masses, so the monks,nuns, priests, ministers, bible teachers will be respected and listened to). This way, when the real deal comes again, most will have accepted programming that it could only be real if it happens just this one way.

So what does the kingdom of God do. They come in almost an opposite way as most think and for those that know that the kigndom of god most always comes by taking a human physical body to have a face to face relatinship with it’s students, they see to it that so many come wearing holy garb and lofty soft talk, peaceful demeanor , etc. that there’s hardly a chance to really see the truth, EXCEPT there is always a more than fair and equal chance to see the truth through all the disguises but it won’t be done by the Lord hitting us with a laser light to blind us so that we can know who is boss. That would be a major manipulation. That’s like shining a bright light at a deer and then when they are shocked by it, shooting them down. Jesus said himself he had kept all his Father gave him, the 11. So what did he do, after he ascended into that spacecraft, decide that he needed this one that was seeking to murder those who believed in him?  What was Jesus doing testing his disciples who were trusting him with their very physical and soul lives, to then have Paul come to Jerusalem claiming to be an appointed teacher of Jesus news, when he never sat with jesus,never cried with him or ate with him nor witnesses any of the things he said and did over some 3 1/2 years? No wonder those who were with Jesus were as it says in acts, “afraid” of him. No wonder they didn’t want to appoint him as a teacher(apostle). And then he goes and tells some who he had made into his flock he is an apostle as much as any of the others. And he then tells some to “look to me” as an elder in christ, etc. or for whether to stay married or to be celebate or not like him (putting himself on a pedestal, as we see throughout all the religions and that jesus nailed, which is the reason they often sought to kill him, though he wasn’t ready. He knew His father would let him know when it was exit time.

 He said in John’s gospel, regarding “laying down his life” that “NO MAN TAKES IT FROM ME”. He said HE WAS LAYING DOWN HIS LIFE BECAUSE HIS FATHER ASKED HIM TO. If paul was such an example of an apostle then why in hell didn’t he quote Jesus? Well, one could say, because he didnt’ hear anything Jesus said. But he was with Peter wasnt’ he, assuming that was the same peter that was with Jesus. I believe it was. In fact, I’d bet the few things he did say that sound like signature jesus, as they would be things that he didnt’ get from his study of OT scripture must have come from Peter or one of the other close students which could have been any of the 70+ Jesus sent out.

Paul primarily teaches Pharisee Judism using the name of Jesus, in recognition that he is the messiah and that he really did rise from the dead. He was convinced he was serving jesus. That’s exactly what the Luciferians want to do. In revelations you know who I think is represented by the phrase, “false prophet”? It’s not one person as so many say, just like antichrist doesn’t have one embodyment. It’s the catch all term for all who are religious and spiritual who claim to be a mouthpiece for God or the cosmic christ consciousness whose FRUIT doesn’t match the fruit of the true members from the Kingdom of God.

Now does that mean that all those who call for peace are demonstrating the fruit Jesus was referring to. After all he blesses the peacemakers and said to treat one another peacefullly but he actaully said he didn’t come to bring peace but a sword that sets at varience members in the same family. Why? How could that be the real jesus? Because he was providing a bonding to a new branch, a new family, that was a many membered family, except his relatives were only those that also believed and trusted and sought to become full time servants of the Kingodm of God according to the qualifications of membership laid down and demonstrated since Adam’s “missing of the mark”(sin).

At this point especially Paul’s letters are a major distraction as is much of the OT. Lucifer has christians so confused while they insist they have it all together. Lucifer is the one that made what jesus came to do look like a country club. Many go to the club every sunday and mingle with fellow believers who all feel so good about themselves and being saved so they can count on going to heaven to be with this guy Jesus who loved them so much he let them mutilate and murder him while hardly paying any attention to anythng he actually said to do to be his disciple. But it’s hard to consider what Jesus said. We, our vehicle’s don’t want to look at those things. they are too hard, they are fed by lucifer subconsciously by this idea that “he did it for us” so it’s even an ego that thinks one must EARN their seat in Heaven OR for those that know they must show “works” , we’ll tithe so our missionaries can go to africa to “save” their souls. jesus spoke to those doing that then and said they also would be “standing up again”(ressurecting, one this words primarny meanings), but this time they don’t wear the yamaka and celbrate with a shofar and menora. Now they have added any number of props and for those that knew the props were from Lucifer, like those who left the Catholic fold, they are still potentially trapped by being glued to 2000 yr old terminology that has come through multiple translations but that the Kigndom of God saw to it still held the core teachings of the Kingdom of God but most trustworthy in what’s been termed the red letters of the 4 gospels and anything else that has direct cross references to the same exact thinking and acting, the Fruit.

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Henry’s blog post:

http://spiritofdiscernment.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/the-heresy-of-the-heaven%e2%80%99s-gate-cult

L.A. Marzulli’s blog where I have included lots of commenting, but some months ago I decided to give it a rest:

http://lamarzulli.wordpress.com