Was Jesus a Space Alien NO He was Above Human equivilent space aliens

Below is the history of posts to date between 4 people, Henry the blogger, Marianne, Hopeful_watcher and me, Sawyer. It starts with Henry’s blog post. Some of my response were never approved but it appears I can still see them so they are included here. If you’ve already read some of this or are bored by it, I suggest searching for: “space being” which will take you to a post by hopeful_watcher to which I responded. It was interesting to see this person respond at all, as he has to date said he wouldn’t even read my comments anymore. It seems he has woke up a tiny bit to even be thinking that the idea of jesus being a space alien is interesting to think about as it certainly is. It’s possible that was a way that his mind, that might have a little life left in it, and begin to open up to take in more in that regard, that I hope I supplied as Ti and Do might. We could be witnessing the birth of one that might otherwise have been lost. I don’t mean to sound like a christian religonist but this is a fishing exposition but the difference between those working for Ti and Do and those working for anyone else is that our prize doesn’t come by catching fish. Our prize comes by trying to catch fish and then trying to do every task Ti and Do give us down the road in this current body’s lifetime and then thereafter. It’s just so far and few between that I’m getting a little batty I guess, but it could be an example that we are not to give up on anyone. As long as they engage us, even if it’s to put us down or call us liars or tell us we are damned, that may simply be their Luciferian styled influences holding on to that vehicle for the time share they thrive on and/or to just keep anyone away from Ti and Do. My post after that one to Hopeful_watcher was to Henry and I suspect it will be my last post to that blog because I believe he will either cut me off or delete the post or disallow all my comments, but I could be wrong. As for marieanne, she has been interestingly quiet of late and I have her email and she has mine so we may still hear from her. I actually feel for these three. It’s amazingly hard to change and they have been taught to fear anything the presents a change as they are brainwashed to think only Jesus will come to them to talk to them and that he’ll do so by some supernatural display in the sky as a light or whatnot.

And actually they may be right as that may be how Do and students return in their spacecraft either as they are or as they were to show the world that they are the same one’s who layed those vehicles down. They can’t “fear seeing his face” if they never have seen it. The problem is, if they don’t consider who they really are before they come in their spacecraft, they will be caught off guard and their vehicle will probably not have time to adjust, change it’s mind(repent) and will just expire from the shock, the fear that goes with witnessing the power Do and students will all emit automatically by the enormity of the mind they are links of and the mind blowing way in which their vehicle witnesses it’s arrival.

So perhaps for some, about the best they can get to might be to look at the heaven’s gate site and/or some pictures or yourtube video’s or remember what they saw in 1997 and have a type of comfort with Do’s face and what he emits which is very strong medicine that scares away influences to witness, which is why it can even be difficult for believers to watch too at times. So even if they go to a site and see Do’s face with the intent of finding the evidence to shoot down the belief of whoever we are talking to, it might be able to be used by the Next Level as a positive. I don’t know. I could be way off here so don’t quote me on this. Just a consideration that doesn’t judge someone as incapable of change as that’s not within our capacity.

The heresy of the Heaven’s Gate cult
September 21, 2011 by Henry

I first encountered the heavens gate cult when I read a news article about how the brother of the Star Trek actress Nichelle Nichol’s (who played Lieutenant Uhura in the original series) committed suicide in 1997 in what was a mass suicide conducted by the Heaven’s Gate group to coincide with the passing of Hales Comet by the earth. It was believed by those who were involved that the comet would take their souls to heaven. From a Christian point of view this of course is preposterous but what should be more surprising is the fact that this group claim also to be followers of Christ and cloak their beliefs in scripture. I personally have not studied the beliefs of this group extensively however from what I have learnt about them I know enough to designate them as a cult which promotes false doctrines.

Our Lord Jesus Christ warns us many times in His word that we should beware of false christs and false teachers who if it were possible would deceive the very elect. I fear that those who are involved with the heaven’s gate group are both deceiving and being deceived. For instance, where is it written in scripture that believers should commit suicide in order to attain to heaven or even that space objects such as comets would come to take our souls to heaven so that we should take our own lives to gain entry such a vehicle? Anyone who believes this must necessarily believe a different gospel than that written in the Bible. However, as Paul admonishes us we should test every spirit to see if they are of God, in like fashion as the Bereans who examined all that Paul had taught them against the word to see if those things that Paul claimed were so. The adherents of the heaven’s gate group would do well to study the scriptures daily to see if the teachings they received lined up with the Word of God.

Jesus Christ came into this world to die for our sins so that through Him – by believing in Him and His gospel message we might be saved and inherit eternal life. Paul writing to Titus said:

11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Rather than committing suicide to accelerate our journey to heaven we are to earnestly continue in the blessed hope, waiting for the appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. Moreover, when we die though we be in Christ we do not instantly go to heaven. Rather we remain asleep until the great and terrible day of the Lord when Jesus shall descend from heaven to gather the dead and the living who are in Him to Himself. See the following verses:

16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words. (1 Thess 4:16-18)

The heaven’s gate group however believes there is actually a different way to get to heaven – mass suicide. To them what is written here in the Word is not true but rather what their teachers tell them is what they believe to be the truth. However you cannot have it both ways – it is either you believe the Word of God as written in the Bible or you make it up as you go along or follow those who make it up as they go along.

The heaven’s gate group believes in two characters called Ti and Do who they claim are Jesus and God and at the same time the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11. The first question we need to ask here is whether God can send witnesses who contradict His very word. Let us first of all briefly examine whether these two characters could actually be God and Jesus. Jesus came into this world a messenger of the Father to bring good news to the lost. Jesus however told us that He is going back but will come again to gather those that are His to himself (Matt 16:27, Rev 22:12). Jesus knew however that when He left many false Christ would arise after Him to lead the people astray so He gave the desciples the signs to look for of His coming so that we are not deceived. We read for example:

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25Behold, I have told you before. 26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (Matt 24:24-27)

In spite of these clear warnings given by Jesus Himself that we should not go after another who is already on earth and claiming to be Him but rather to look for His appearing as the lighting flashes from East to West the heaven’s gate group rejects these very words. They claim that Jesus does not need to appear in this way but that His coming is phased and it is up to us to be able to recognize if when he is here. To reject Jesus’ words here and to say that Ti and Do are God and Jesus incarnate is nothing but a lie in the face of the Bible. Whom do we trust? The Bible, the revealed word of God or do we trust another who contradicts this very word?

Could these two therefore be the Two Witnesses of God – not if they contradict the very word of God they cannot be. More importantly they do not fit into neither the prophesy nor the criteria to fulfill the prophesy surrounding the ministry of the Two Witnesses. The Bible makes clear to us that the Two Witnesses complete their ministry during the opening of the 7th Seal at a time when the 5th angel (of the seven having the seven trumpets and the last seven plagues to judge the earth) sounded. These events occur after the 6th seal when the heavens were opened and when Jesus gathers those that are His to Himself. We know this because in Revelations 9 the 5th angel sounded and released the angel of the bottomless pit which I believe is the same beast of the bottomless bit which made war with the 2 witnesses in Revelation 11 and killed them following the end of their ministry. For the heaven’s gate group to therefore claim that the two witnesses have already fulfilled their ministry is again another lie in the face of scripture.

This has not been a detailed study on the heaven’s gate group nor was it intended to be but I believe I have left the reader in no doubt about the deceptive nature of the group. Their purpose is clearly not to fulfill the mission of Christ even though they may have been deceived into thinking that it is. I only pray that those who encounter them will stay clear of them and those who remain in the group may see the light of Christ and be awakened out of their deception.

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Posted in False Doctrines | Tagged christian cult, cult, false doctrine, heavens gate, heresy, mass suicide, ufo | 22 Comments

22 Responses
on September 21, 2011 at 5:25 pm | Reply  Hopeful_watcher
Bravo. There is nothing to add. Nothing to dispute. I assume a rebuttal will be forth coming, but I have no desire to read it.

on September 22, 2011 at 1:38 pm | Reply  Marianne Lordi
Hi Henry, you gave a good word. Unfortunately those deceived will continue to argue against the truth but so be it.

I do however have one point that I would like to bring up. You said that those who die will remain asleep until Christ coming. If that were so, then how do you reconcile Christ in the garden when Elijah and Moses showed up? Also, the bible does tell us absent from the body- present with the Lord! I think that Scripture you refer to means that those who have died, their bodies will resurrect and they will receive new ones that are not corrupt as shall we who are in Christ shall do also. Those believers who die now are in spirit form. So at that day when Christ calls us, all believers shall receive their new bodies that we will have evermore in heaven.

on September 22, 2011 at 6:33 pm | Reply  sawyer
I expect Henry will block my comments as He fears hearing more truth, but I will be posting this on my blog for all to see as there are many that talk like you all who think you are so deserving of God’s kingdom just because you talk about scriptures. Talk about illusion. Why is it that those actually with Jesus had to give so much and you don’t.

It’s because you have been programmed to confuse those who simply “believed in Jesus” before they died 2000 years ago and those who actually became disciples – active students (though I’m using a modern term with a plain to understand definition rather than the one filled with religious trappings). You won’t like this but a disciple has a much greater measure to live up to. As Jesus said,

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Luke 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

Luke 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Acts 9:26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.

on September 23, 2011 at 10:45 am | Reply  Henry
Hi Marianne,   Indeed those that are deceived continue to argue instead of examining the word properly against their beliefs. Notice that Sawyer does not respond to the specific points I put to him but instead goes around in circles to present different views that purports to be a scriptural challenge to my position on scriptures.   Anyway, I will try to address your other point breifly as this is an entire topic in itself. Do Christians automatically go to heaven when they die? I do not believe that this is the case but please help me out with any scriptures on this that you have.   What I have understood from scripture is that the spirit of man returns to God when someone dies (Ecc 3:21, Ecc 12:7). The question is, does that mean that this spirit is conscious when it returns to God? The same Preacher who said that the spirit returns to God on death says that the dead knoweth nothing (Ecc 9:5).   Consider this then – if we say that a Christian who dies will go straight to heaven are we not saying they are reaping their reward? But isn’t it true that our reward is given when Jesus returns on the day of Judgement? So how can we say that someone is enjoying their reward before the appointed time.   We know that Moses died in Moab (i.e. fell asleep) (Deut 34:5) but Elijah went to heaven without seeing death (2 Kin 2:11). Does the fact therefore that both Moses and Elijah were seen with Christ on the “mount of transfiguration” prove that both Elijah and Moses were in heaven?   I will tell you why I don’t believe that Moses was literally in heaven. The Bible tells us that Jesus was/is the “first born of the dead”.This means the first man to have died, resurrected and ascended to everlasting life. In like fashion those that are in Christ will go through the same “process” when Christ returns. To say then that Moses was in heaven would go against scripture which tells us that Christ is the first fruit of the dead – we would be saying here that Moses died and went to heaven before Christ which would mean Christ was NOT the first fruit of the dead.   I therefore believe that Moses was asleep but was “temporarily made awake” at the “mount of transfiguration.” I am basing this on the fact that though Samuel the prophet was dead a a woman which had a familiar spirit was able to ”conjure up” his spirit so that Saul could enquire of him concerning the future of Israel. If Samuel was in heaven how is it that the woman saw him ascending out of the ground (See 1 Samuel 28)? Samuel even asked Saul in verse 15 why did he disturb him to bring him up. On the basis of these points do you still think that the dead in Christ go straight to heaven? Symbolically they do in the sense that they are asured of eternal salvation but are they in a conscious state in heaven enjoying the fruits of paradise? I think not but please provide me with any scriptures to correct me if I am wrong. 

on September 23, 2011 at 11:18 am  Hopeful_watcher
I have heard and I believe its referenced in Luke the ‘bosom of Abraham’ where the good go before judgement. If so, this would parallel your thoughts on this.

on September 23, 2011 at 1:31 pm  Marianne Lordi
Hi Henry, When I said about Moses and Elijah speaking with Christ, I did not mean to infer that they were in heaven but rather in Abraham’s bosom until Christ opened heaven with his death. The point I was making is that they were not “asleep” somewhere. Our bodies “sleep when we die and our bodies can no longer worship Christ, however, our soul and spirit is with God when we died. Jesus told the thief on the cross who believed in him that TODAY you will be with me in paradise. We cannot overlook all this, Henry. As for Samuel saying why did you disturb my rest, there are different comments on that situation. But I don’t think you are saying that Samuel was really “resting” and didn’t want to be disturbed. Remember, Saul and the the woman practicing sorcery saw Samuel in his old body. We shed our bodies when we die. To be a believer and to say that we still hold onto them UNTIL we are resurrected is not in scripture. We don’t hold onto our body at the point of death. At the moment we are absent from our body, we are present with the Lord! That is what the bible says. When Stephen was being stoned to death for Christ, he looked up and saw “the Son of Man standing at the right hand of the Father”. Christ was getting ready to welcome him home. Do you think that Jesus showed himself to Stephen in heaven only to let him lie in his corrupt body until the resurrection?

Now those with Christ now are in heaven with him but have not been given their eternal reward. Remember, we will be given jobs and be over angels and over the earth and every thing with Christ. That is when we will receive our full reward. Heaven alone is not it all. He will give to us the reward according to what we did for his kingdom while we were on earth. We will not face a judgment for our sins for they will be remembered no longer as we both know.

There is a great commentary on this subject by John MacArthur. Here is a brief paragraph from one of his comments on this subject:

“Now the word “sleep” in the Bible is used of normal sleep, a recovery process by which the body goes into rest temporarily. John 11:12 uses it in its normal sense. But the word for “sleep” is also used uniquely of Christians and it’s used a number of times for Christians, now listen carefully, and it always refers to their bodies…it always refers to their bodies. The only part of us that goes in to any state of unconsciousness at death is the body. In John, you remember chapter 11 and verse 11, our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, Jesus said, but I go that I may awaken him out of sleep. Now everybody knew that Lazarus was…what?…he was dead, he had been dead for three days. His sister said, “By this time his body stinketh.” Decay had set in, he had been entombed, he was dead. From Jesus’ view he was only asleep, his soul was alive not bound in the grave, we don’t know where it was or what it experienced cause the Scripture doesn’t tell us, but it does not pass out of existence since it is eternal and it is eternally conscious. But his body was at rest and Jesus saw that as temporary that’s why He calls it sleep. Sleep is something you wake up from. If you don’t wake up you’re dead or you eventually will die. And so Jesus sees the death of Lazarus as temporary repose of his body.” (John MacArthur)

I don’t want to go on too long. While I firmly believe that when you die, you are present with the Lord as said in Scripture, I don’t think that your belief or mine will affect our salvation. That is all we both need to know.

As for Sawyer, you said enough to him. He isn’t taking any of it in and is just being argumentative. We both explained to him what the bible says and he just wants to add what he believes to the bible and bring judgment on himself. He has his own blog, he should keep his teachings there.

on September 25, 2011 at 7:05 am  sawyer
Henry, I’ve been busy and have already stretched my time for you all, but I’m still a sap to talk about Jesus so I’ll get back to your ill informed assumptions and mindless accusations and petty sumation of a group you admit to knowing little about, while acting as if you have an authortative stance. Have your fun. Actually it’s a signal I’m long overdue to recognize, for me to disengage with you all. That should make you happy.

on September 22, 2011 at 6:47 pm | Reply  sawyer
Henry is demonstrating a big part of why you all fear a head to head scriptural (what can be evidenced as having been what Jesus said and did) debate. You all have been fooled by Paul. I have talked about this before and you were not able to hear me. Here is another very, very strong scriptural EVIDENCE as to how those who were actual physical disciples of Jesus (as opposed to believers, the difference being huge, as disciples had to leave everything behind, spouse, children, lands, homes, and even their own life to be a disciple):

Acts 9:26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.

They didn’t trust him. They were afraid of him. Why. Well because he was murdering them if not directly by his hand, by his overseeing and command, as evidenced by Saul’s own testimony and the events in the stoning of Stephen. Why would Jesus want to work with someone who was murdering those that believed in him? Why would Jesus blind him into submission. Jesus did not even blind or otherwise strike out at anyone. Jesus did not need followers and certainly not followers that hated him. And further more this blinding light had a voice that said “I am Jesus whom you persecute”. Well first off, there is no record that Saul ever met or saw Jesus so how could he be persecuting him. Secondly, Jesus himself said not to believe anyone that comes “in my name saying they are the Christ” adn what does this voice say. “I am Jesus”. Was not the name Jesus used Jesus? This voice was Lucifer, the “angel of light” looking to trick would be believers and thus was the first major surfacing of the Anti Christ and today 99% of the organized churches honor Paul and quote Paul and look to what Paul said. Why is that? Well, Paul, however well intended didn’t know Jesus and only knew about Jesus from what others said, so he built a following on the coattails of Jesus and got many to look to him for all the answers and direction.

So is what Jesus said not good enough for you all? Go ahead quote Paul. See if Paul can save you. It’s EASY to assume you are in Jesus favour.

on September 22, 2011 at 7:06 pm | Reply  sawyer
Here is my response to your last entry in the last post before you turned off comments.

Yes, Lucifer has attempted to twist everything, even the Bible, the reason so many people can use scripture to justify a myrid of behaviours against others. One prime tactic is to make everything black and white – thus every word of what’s in the Bible is thought by some to be 100% directly spoken by God through human servants. To take that to yet another extreme is to think only the King James Version demonstrates God’s accurate words. I do trust that God saw to it that the reocrd of what his Son said is trustworthy, even in the form in which we get it, having been translated. However, any two or more people can read most anything Jesus said and can write books on what Jesus must have meant, whether he meant it figuratively, was telling a story to illustrate what some would not otherwise understand. Does God play games with giving us His Word in such a way that there are mulitple interpretations. Even Thou shalt not kill has become morphed into not killing except for in self defense and then self defense becomes blowing up one’s neighbor for suspicion they might want to blow us away. And why do we need to learn to recognize the “fruit” of any member of the Kingdom of God when they come. Why do we need to keep our lamps trimmed and with oil to see by if Jesus when he comes will be as lightening. Do we need to prepare to SEE him when he comes as lightening. Even so, as I don’t dispute that scripture, does seeing Him as LIghtening mean we are going to understand what we see. If he came inside a comet would we know it if we were not open to the idea. Isn’t the main characteristic of a good observer someone who looks at all they can. How can observation be a negative unless we are afraid of seeing something that would therefore suggest having to “change one’s mind” the real meaning of repentance (which also entails changing our ways). And that’s a case in point. The Term repentence, the word, God, the word Christ, the word Heaven, the word Hell, the word spirit, soul, life, death ALL are seen in a variety of ways depending on the observer and what they want to see or are willing to dig to see. God doen’t want robots who take everything at face value regardless of whether it truely represents what God knows they are capable of, so we are given steps and everyone is not on the same step at the same time which there is no shame in.

And if God wants to change his words that’s god’s perogative not mine. But for the record I think it’s very clear that what he was talkign about in saying that not one jot or tittle of the law would vanish, was that God’s not going to change their commandments which entail the requirements to make application to membership in God’s kingdom.

Ti and Do did not just say they were the Two Witnesses. There exist many hundreds of hours of tapes that recording their step by step progression with their students over 24 years in occupation of physical bodies, (son of hu-man, in other words “begotten” – born from a human woman’s womb). Jesus also said “you will see(understand) the son of man(with a begotten body) coming in/with/among the clouds… sitting on the right hand of power and glory. Jesus is the “right hand man” for His Father, who is his POWER, thus this can be seen as another indicator of who the Two Witnesses (Christs) are, as Father and Son, with the Father also being “born of woman”) in order to birth their son into his Fatherhood.(Rev 12).

So we can trust that God has delivered to us what we need in the record – the bible but most reliably the words of Moses and then the words of Jesus, then secondarily the words of the prophets that seemed to say the same things and that Moses and/or Jesus referenced, like Isaiah and Zechariah and those that were His disciples who demonstrate consistancy with what Moses/Jesus said/did, though part of that consistancy is that there would be updates each time a member of the kingdom of God comes as a “son of man” which tests/challenges everyone to yet a higher set of standards, the reason why Jesus was hated by the very ones who said they were disciples of Moses, and so the process extends itself to now. There must always be leaps of faith as we are putting on amour against the lower forces while bonding, entailing changing our source of life from the human family unit and it’s behavior and ways to the Kingdom of God’s family unit, behavior and ways as given to us, demonstrated to us, so we could mimic and absorb and make our own when we (our souls) have that face to face (born of flesh) opportunity to do so – (not reincarnation, a concept that is a twist of the way the Kingdom of God chooses to bring back the souls(those who are attemptign to wash their robes and have no guile and are overcoming their human mammon masters whom they are working towards spirit/soul birth with that also becomes a moving up opportunity for all God’s creatures.

on September 23, 2011 at 1:05 pm | Reply  Henry
Sawyer,
What you speak is NOT truth when examined in light of scripture though you may believe that it is. The mistake you have made is to trust in a man’s words rather than to trust in the Bible and then examine what someone claims against the Bible. This is deception.

So far you have not addressed none of my specific points but you resort to subterfuge in avoiding those points. I am not going to continue in a fruitless discussion with you if you cannot scripturally address those points which I have presented to you in my rebuttal of your beliefs. For instance in your first reply you went off on a tangent about people who were disciples and those who were simple believers and I fail to see what value this adds. Questioning Paul’s integrety is again another fruitless point. If you cannot see parallels with Paul’s teaching and Christ’s teachings then you do not know anything about Christian and the walk of faith. To ask why would God choose someone like Paul to be an apostle is a moot point. Have you not heard – ‘For all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God?’ ‘Let him that is without sin cast the first stone.’ Who then are you to judge Paul and to question God’s sovereign will to choose him to be His apostle?

It is interesting to see that you yourself come here to judge me and others by your reasoning that we think we are in God’s favour and that those who were with Christ had to give so much and I don’t. I do not condescend to my own sense of self-importance contrary to what you think – these points you raise anyway are nothing but a distraction from the real issues herein and appears to be a deliberate ploy by you. Stick to the issues at hand.

You have demonstrated your level of ignorance when you say that it is God’s perogative to change His own words. To make such a statement is to implicate God in telling untruths. You still do not understand the nature of God – the God of the Bible that is. You have developed a false premise from your encounters with false prophets and teachers. God said: For I am the Lord, I change not (Mal 3:6). Scripture also said: God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind (Num 23:19).

The truth though is that Applewhite and co lied to you. They came to you claiming to be God and Christ – Let me tell you something of a truth: No man hath seen God at anytime (John 1:18, 1 John 4:12). No man can look upon the face of God and live (Ex 33:20). For you to claim then that you have seen God in the persons of Ti and Do is a lie – You have been deceived. You would not have been able to come here to converse with me.

I have presented you with the truth and if you do not want to sit down and study and examine it against scripture then I can’t force you. But what I will not do is to continue to enter into a fruitless discourse with you on claims that cannot be substantiated by the Bible. Anymore fruitless post from you will be deleted forthwith.

on September 25, 2011 at 3:24 am | Reply  sawyer
Henry, I just have not have time to respond as I spent a lot of time with someone else, and you will be happy to know that after I respond, I will be out of your hair. I’ve done all I can do. It’s up to you to consider it further or not and it doesn’t matter to me what you choose.

on September 26, 2011 at 12:57 pm | Reply  Henry
Hi Marianne,

I don’t want you to misunderstand me. I am not saying that when we die we are asleep somewhere. I used the term “asleep” in the same sense that scripture uses it to describe death (see Acts 13:36, 2 Pet 3:4 for example) so I am not being unbiblical here.

I have already said that the spirit goes to God when someone dies but the question I asked you before is whether Christians go to heaven when they die such that they are conscious of the fact that they are in heaven. Abraham’s bossom is a metaphor but for what exactly we don’t really know. According to you also you say that scripture says when we are absent in body we are present with the Lord but you have not offered the source of that scripture. Can you please provide it? Sometimes I wonder if this is more of belief rather than biblical fact.

Anyway if the dead in Christ are with the Lord why are the dead in Christ rising first from the earth to meet Christ in the air when He returns – particularly considering they will receive new bodies? Also did Christ go straight to heaven when He died? Yet at the resurrection His body was not seen in the tomb when they went to visit and check on the third day. It seems therefore that the same body that died is translated at the resurrection (change in the twinkling of an eye).

I have to admit that this whole thing is a mystery which I do not fully have a handle on. To complicate matters even more we have the the story about the souls of them that were martyred from Christ sake under the altar (in heaven) crying to God asking when He will judge the earth. Was this literal or symbolic? If the dead in Christ are with the Lord why are these souls under the altar in the temple in heaven?

on September 26, 2011 at 3:50 pm | Reply  Marianne Lordi
Hi Henry,

The souls of those martyred from Christ whose blood cries out to God is not literal. We know that no one is lying around crying out. Just as God told Cain that Abel’s blood cried out from the ground, he was speaking metaphorically. The justice of the matter was the cry!

The awesome teacher, Jonathan Edwards, did a great exposition on this matter that may clear some things up for you. (Absent from the body and present with God is what Paul spoke of in 2 Cor. 5 ). Please read it when you can. Edwards was a great teacher:

http://www.biblebb.com/files/edwards/je-absent.htm

on September 26, 2011 at 1:10 pm | Reply  Henry
Sawyer,

I am open to discuss scripture with you on any topic. However the mistake you make is rather than examine what you have been taught against scripture you instead examine scripture against what you have been taught. You reject the teachings of Paul for example based on what you heard someone else teach instead of examining Paul’s teachings against the rest of scripture. I have looked at Paul’s teachings agains Christ’s own and I see no fault in it. When Paul went preaching the Gospel in Berea those that received him received the word with all readiness of heart but they did not accept the teaching at face value. They instead studied the scriptures daily to see if what Paul was teaching was true. As a result Paul called them more noble than those of Thessolonica. This is what you should have done.

The mistake you have made is the same thing you are asking me to do. You are asking me to take your word for it on what you say because someone was teaching you this thing for over 20 years – but the length of time something is being taught does not in itself substantiate the truth of it. Hence I have examined those things you have claimed against scriptures and found it wanting. To decry me and argue that I do not no anything about the group is neither here nor there. I do not need to know the history of a group to know whether or not certain claims they make are true or not. I have to examine what you claim against scripture and if it doesn’t tie in with scripture then it has to be rejected.

I have seen though that you have not addressed the things I have said to you on a scriptural basis but you have instead resorted to taking “pop shots” at me and then call my analysis of your doctrine petty. I think it is you who are being petty, not me. Instead of keep going back to what Ti and Do said you should be examining what Ti and Do said agains Holy Writ.

on October 5, 2011 at 5:01 am | Reply  sawyer
I did talk about scripture in my response that is listed as “awaiting moderation” so how come you didn’t it let it go though. Are you protecting someone who you don’t think is on strong enough group to hear what comes out of my little brain, or what is your reason exactly?

on October 5, 2011 at 5:10 am | Reply  sawyer
Just so you know, I am rewarded whether you or others hear me or not. So just giving me this forum is helping me and those that read my blog where I also post these things that also goes to facebook. So if you really want to do service to yourself and whoever else you serve I suggest turning off my subscription to your blog or stop responding to what I say. You’ve already deceided I’m a lost soul so why bother try to brainwash me into the illusion you insist on having that you think is so aware but are afraid to hear a counter to. I have listened to all your counters and you have not replied to all the many sriptural points I brougth up? Like answer me this one. When Jesus salked about leaving mother and father and sister and brother and lands and CHILDREN BEHIND TO FOLLOW HIM what did he mean by that? I’m curious as to yoru interreatation? I bet you won’t post this. And when jesus said that to “make oneself a eunuch for the kingdom of heaven’s sake” what did he mean by that ? and when he said one needed to give away all his possessions, what did he mean by that. and when he said, if you don’t keep his saying you are not his discople what did he meant by that? and when he said his disciples would also have to drink the same cup he was drinking what did he mean by “cup”? want me to continue. cut off an hand, pluck out an eye… and there is lots more.

on September 27, 2011 at 4:15 am | Reply  sawyer
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Henry, Let me just say, I apologize if I’ve said disrespectful things to you. I’m not sure what they were at this time but you said “pot shots” so I no doubt have become somewhat defensive at times and aggressive as well.

However, I do feel, the retorick from you and Marieanne and hopeful watcher is often just as confrontational, which I don’t enjoy, but I’m not in this for enjoyment and it’s actually fine as we each have strong feelings about what we believe.

Nevertheless, what I feel happens a great deal in my opinion, which may in part be due to the nature of comments on the internet, lots of assumptions seem to be made. I know marianne said I assumed she was a Catholic, but if you go back to what I said, I simply said she “sounded like a catholic” regarding her talking about the “trinity” (not a word in the bible record I can find in any language). Now I can see how looking at those words I used, she would think I was saying she was a Catholic, but in my mind I knew that I didn’t know. I don’t pretend to be psychic and neither were Ti and Do by the way. They said those techniques were actually “tricks” used by the “lower forces”, part of the things done to fool the elect.

I do agree with you that the length of time with anything is not proof of understanding even what we were apart of for that duration and especially applicable with things Biblical because it’s so, so easy and often the case that we are dumbfounded by what we read or think we understand it, but then some time later come back to it, or read someone else’s understanding or interpretation and we can often realize we didn’t understand it as well as we still might.

The only reason I say I had 19 years of first hand experience with Ti and Do is so it’s clear this is not a second hand witness, thus one might give a little more credence to the experiences I relay about Them, not that one still doesn’t need to test it and challenge it and debate parts. I expect that. I really wouldnt’ not want someone to take my word for it. I’m not trying to persuade though I do feel the evidence I’m mounted is quite persuasive to anyone who is willing to give each piece a genuine consideration.

Frankly, I take people’s outright rejection of Ti and Do, as you three have done from day one of my conversations about Ti and Do, which has extended itself from other blogs where I met you three I believe as some evidence that it’s fearful to be willing to “consider” as you know that if you considered who Ti and Do might well be, then you’d be beginning to get sucked into it further and how upsetting that would be accross the board, in each of your lives and in you own personal skin. Maybe “fears” not the correct word, but we have no record in the Bible I’m aware of where Jesus or Moses commanded, “thou shall not examine what someone’s fruits are”, fruit being a huge point to discern, as we’d have to know what Jesus meant by it.

Now perhaps you are thinking now, that you have examined the fruit of Ti and Do. Presumably you’ve read all my posts and examined some articles or whatnot somewhere that prompted this latest post claiming it as heracy and you have stated why, having to do with the 7th Angel/trumphet sounding, which I will address shortly following a few more days of study. I’ve been so occupied with so many other parts of revelations and the new and old testement over the last x years, in which no one has ever expressed what you have, so I have not had reason to dig into those depictions of the Kingdom of God’s manefestation of prophecy. So the time is right now I guess but as you know that’s a big topic that like most everything biblical is wrought with contraversy among Christians.

Now, perhaps I have not been clear about my position on Paul, which I believe in part was/is Do’s position though that’s not to say everyting I might think/say about Paul can be assumed to be Do’s position as my experience with Do tells me I’d have to bring up to him each position I was taking independently as Do did quote one Paul quote once as his being supportive of it’s coming from the Kingdom of God’s representatives. Our time with Ti and Do for 10 years and then with Do for the next 9 (for me) seldom had in debth talk about particular scriptures and when there was, it was 99% from the red letters – what Jesus was quoted to have said.

Now it was from Do that I got the idea that Saul was entrapped by Lucifer. Do didn’t say why that I recall. Like I said, we had little Bible talk in detail. Now, if that makes you think He is automatically disqualified from being from the Kingdom of God, that’s you choice but if you see how many times Jesus quoted the OT, it didn’t seem to dominate the conversations the disciples noted or repeated that became inscripted.

It was after I had left Do and the group in 1994 and then after they “layed down their physical containers(bodies) that I gradually over years, beginning to come back to talking to Do in my head again and moving into wanting to be in their service again that I began to dig into scripture again. (while with Do, He at times did assign students to dig into scriptures and I was one of those and presented a report to the group on my study of the terms Resurrection, regeneration, raised up once. And while we were on the road, myself with a partner Ti and Do assigned me to spreak their message with, which was in 1975-6 I did a great deal of red letter study and have many debates with many dozens of churches across the US, which was my biggest burst of bible study at that point in my life.

So when I examined Saul/Paul it wasn’t too hard to see the inconsistancies with Jesus, but that’s because I believed in Do so believed Saul was used by the lower forces to dilute and bring the antichrist (Lucifer and his fallen angels) hatred of the teachings of Jesus to light, by making this hater of Jesus and his disciples into a populist preacher, though any talk of jesus was then unpopular and resulted in Pauls martyrdom. Now this being said, doesn’t mean in any shape or form that Paul didn’t become a genuine believer in Jesus and nor does it mean that everything that Paul said was unreferencable to what Jesus said.

What so many do which is encouraged by the lower forces is to find one or two reasons to disqualify something to otherwise consider and thereby block all date related to whatever the subject of the data is. Athesists who hate some of the aspects of religions often deny the planet had to have been created by hightly intelligent supreme beings that were called in history the Kingdom of God. Many would rather believe Jesus never existed than consider that what many hate about religion and christianity in particular is those in such religions that demonstrate an absolute certainty that they understand reality, past, present and future, so claim the earth is just 6000 to 7000 years old, when there is lots of scientific evidence it is much older. And then as you know, all the hypocriciies of the organized church in the burning of so called witches and killings in the crusades, etc. which to me were not doing anything close to what Jesus said to think, say and do. It’s what the Luciferians do to try to get humans to see anything but the truth and the Kingdom of God sets this up as part of the formula that helps us “plants” grow. We have this “advasary”(satan) to spar agaisnt to build our armour through, what Ti called a “muscle” and a process like churning the cream to make butter or using great fire to purify the iron ore into steel or to get Gold from the ore.

Now I believe there is lots of evidence that many christians hold to the “word”, the bible in such a way that actually blinds them to the newness that Jesus would represent in any next coming which there is much scriptural evidence of.

After all what are the characteristics, according to Jesus of would be false prophets: In summary, some will say they are actually Jesus the Christ. They will appear to be sheep but inwardly will be ravening wolves(after the genuine sheep to trick them to follow them rather than the genuine shepherd). And how do they portray being sheep? They wear sheeps clothing. In other words they appear to us as sheep. No where is that more obvious in many of the religious leaders of any and all faiths, but their fruit gives them away. Their fruit is not just what they say, but what they DO. If they talk about going after Osama Bin Laden because he is a devil to kill him and they call themselves christians then their fruit is certainly not from the “good” tree that came from our Father’s kingdom as we had that old lesson, Thou shall not kill. If they set up a huge institution, a mega church and they trade in real estate and don’t pay taxes and accumulate riches they stash away in banks, are they at all demonstrating the fruit Jesus would say was fruit? No, No, No and that is pretty clear. But if they give humanitarian help to whoever asks then in that way they are demonstrating some of what Jesus said to do in “love your neighbor as yourself”, the term love here must be with action as saying it and not walking the talk is against Jesus who said, “you praise me with your words but your heart is far from me” and many other scriptures.

If we lend to someone and charge them interest, we are not demonstrating having Kingdom of God tree fruit.

So if we look at the behavior and ways over 24 years of Ti and Do what will we see?

I’m almost willing to bet you and Marianne and hopefull watcher have never gone to heavensgate.com to see what Ti and Do and students actually said and did over 24 years to determine if it resembled the Kingdom of God’s fruit or the kIngdom of Human as largly morphed into the kingdom of the luciferians fruit.

The luciferians try to stick very close to what the Kingdom of God last did on Earth, so they create facsimili leaders. They often talk about Jesus and do humanitarian things and such and if there are some that want to give their all to God, they see to it that an organization exists to give some a way to make their giving their all into an acceptible and even highly esteemed effort. They have schools that teach scripture, (though they stay locked in a very particular opinion/translation about scripture and select primarily the scriptures they can most easily justify for the masses, so the monks,nuns, priests, ministers, bible teachers will be respected and listened to. This way, when the real deal comes again, most will have accepted programming that it could only be real if it happens just this one way.

So what does the kingdom of God do. They come in almost an opposite way as most think and for those that know that the kigndom of god most always comes by taking a human physical body to have a face to face relatinship with it’s students, they see to it that so many come wearing holy garb and lofty soft talk, peaceful demeanor , etc. that there’s hardly a chance to really see the truth, EXCEPT there is always a more than fair and equal chance to see the truth through all the disguises but it won’t be done by the Lord hitting us with a laser light to blind us so that we can know who is boss. That would be a major manipulation. That’s like shining a bright light at a deer and then when they are shocked by it, shooting them down.

Jesus said himself he had kept all his Father gave him, the 11. So what did he do, after he ascended into that spacecraft, decide that he needed this one that was seeking to murder those who believed in him. What was Jesus doing testing his disciples who were trusting him with their very physical and soul lives, to then have Paul come to Jerusalem claiming to be an appointed teacher of Jesus news, when he never sat with jesus,never cried with him or ate with him nor witnesses any of the things he said and did over some 3 1/2 years? No wonder those who were with Jesus were as it says in acts, “afraid” of him. No wonder they didn’t want to appoint him as a teacher(apostle).

And then he goes and tells some who he had made into his flock he is an apostle as much as any of the others. And he then tells some to “look to me” as an elder in christ, etc. or for whether to stay married or to be celebate or not like him (putting himself on a pedestal, as we see throughout all the religions and that jesus nailed, which is the reason they often sought to kill him, though he wasn’t ready. He knew His father would let him know when it was exit time. He said in John’s gospel, regarding “laying down his life” that “NO MAN TAKES IT FROM ME”. He said HE WAS LAYING DOWN HIS LIFE BECAUSE HIS FATHER ASKED HIM TO.

If paul was such an example of an apostle then why in hell didn’t he quote Jesus? Well, one could say, because he didnt’ hear anything Jesus said. But he was with Peter wasnt’ he, assuming that was the same peter that was with Jesus. I believe it was. In fact, I’d bet the few things he did say that sound like signature jesus, as they would be things that he didnt’ get from his study of OT scripture must have come from Peter or one of the other close students which could have been any of the 70+ Jesus sent out.

Paul primarily teaches Pharisee Judism using the name of Jesus, in recognition that he is the messiah and that he really did rise from the dead. He was convinced he was serving jesus. That’s exactly what the Luciferians want to do.

In revelations you know who I think is represented by the phrase, “false prophet”? It’s not one person as so many say, just like antichrist doesn’t have one embodyment. It’s the catch all term for all who are religious and spiritual who claim to be a mouthpiece for God or the cosmic christ consciousness whose FRUIT doesn’t match the fruit of the true members from the Kingdom of God.

Now does that mean that all those who call for peace are demonstrating the fruit Jesus was referring to. After all he blesses the peacemakers and said to treat one another peacefullly but he actaully said he didn’t come to bring peace but a sword that sets at varience members in the same family. Why? How could that be the real jesus? Because he was providing a bonding to a new branch, a new family, that was a many membered family, except his relatives were only those that also believed and trusted and sought to beccome full time servants of the Kingodm of God according to the qualifications of membership laid down and demonstrated since Adam’s “missing of the mark”(sin).

At this point especially Paul’s letters are a major distraction as is much of the OT. Lucifer has christians so confused while they insist they have it all together.

Lucifer is the one that made what jesus came to do look like a country club. Go to the club every sunday and mingle with fellow believers who all feel so good about themselves and being saved so they can count on going to heaven to be with this guy Jesus who loved them so much he let them mutilate and murder him while hardling paying any attention to anythng he actually said to do to be his disciple. But we don’t want to look at those things. they are too hard, they are fed by lucifer subconsciously by this idea that “he did it for us” so it’s even an ego that thinks one must EARN their seat in Heaven OR for those that know they must show “works” , we’ll tithe so our missionaries can go to africa to “save” their souls. jesus spoke to those doing that then and said they also would be “standing up again”(ressurecting, one this words primarny meanings), but this time they don’t wear the yamaka and celbrate with a shofar and menora. Now they have added any number of props and for those that knew the props were from Lucifer, like those who left the Catholic fold, they are still potentially trapped by being glued to 2000 yr old terminology that has come through multiple translations but that the Kigndom of God saw to it still held the core teachings of the Kingdom of God but most trustworthy in what’s been termed the red letters of the 4 gospels and anything else that has direct cross references to the same exact thinking and acting, the Fruit.

on September 28, 2011 at 5:56 am | Reply  sawyer
I know you weren’t addressing me in this, and you may resent hearing my tone of offerring of another way of seeing things, but the way you seem to be talking here is reminicent of the way I observe you talk about me and the subject of this blog, Heaven’s gate and Henry’s claim that it’s heretical, so I feel obligated to point out my opinion that your way of expression sounds to me so absolutely certain in areas I see as having lots of room for greater or broader understanding. So here is what I offer in this regard:

When The Father or Lord say something through one of their prophets or through those that are greater than what we call Prophets, like Moses and Jesus, I guarantee that even if it’s in story form or looks metaphorical or figurative IT IS A POINTER TO SOMETHING THAT IS VERY VERY LITERALLY APPLICABLE – REAL, True. When someone dies, does something about them continue to exist? A Soul, or a Spirit? If they were murdered and they know it was unjust and God can still hear their sense of the injustice, isn’t that their “blood calling or crying out”. Cry doesn’t necessarily mean tears., like they are sitting around balling their eyes out. However for some who die they may be suspended in a type of perpetual horror at wwhat they experienced. Whenever anyone says something Absolute, they are most always seeing it in a very limited fashion. I believe there is one exception I’m aware of now but could be wrong. when we absolutely express what we don’t know or absolutely know that nothing is impossible for God or that God does not play games with us, like tell us something that is false to test us. We can be sure that this world as we know it didn’t “just happen” like from an unorchestrated big bang, but could God have created a “big bang”, of that I am absolutely sure. I believe it’s important to God that we learn to recognize and restrain our desire to be an authority figure. I now it can seem that since I have somethng to say to everything and present my views as having some authority that I think I am an authority. Well lets say the truth is that I do still have an ego so I do slip and say things like I know them when if push came to shove it is likly I may not. Now this isn’t referring to “experiences” though it would apply to the interpretations of experiences which is why it behooves us to try to be as accurate as we can be when talking about scriptural interpretation which requires looking into the background of the English terms in their latin/greek and/or hebrew origins.

on September 28, 2011 at 6:54 am | Reply  sawyer
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

Henry, I believe some of the potential answers to some of what you question is in the more correct translation of terms. The terms Resurrection means, to “stand up again”. The origin of the idea of “standing” is literal and figurative. When we stand up for an idea or someone we are standing for them. To stand is to not sit or lie down. It’s literal and applicable to our physicality.

When jesus said we had to be born again of flesh in order to be born again of soul/spirit/Holy Mind(greek pneuma) that’s a fairly concrete evidence that wome were to have a new physical experience. But Chritians who give Paul the weight of Jesus refer to Paul’s saying, it’s given man once to die, which I believe stems from Isiah, but correct me if I am mistaken there, but Jesus did quote Isiah so I don’t doubt that has it’s accuracy. However, actually both can be true I believe. WE can be born again in flesh and still only be given once to die. The key is that the “we” in born again in flesh is the person of the soul (body), the different kind of flesh Paul spoke of, though I believe there are all kinds of different kinds of flesh in the kingdom of God, but I got that largely from Ti and Do whom you all don’t respect so I don’t expect you to consider that.

So if those that died while and because of preaching Jesus to people tha t hated to hear about Jesus, thus “died in christ” rise first is it not possible this is the same scenerio as when Jesus said there would be a resurrection(rising – standing up again) by both the just and the unjust and that can happen in two ways. 1) The Kingdom of God brings back the previously “saved in abrahams bosum/greek paradosa”, part of the localized heaven’s(sky), and picks some of the new humans these souls are to associate with, to take over, “ride like horses”, to further their overcoming of their human carnal nature. Meanwhile the physial bodies they are to associate with are the genetic carry forth of the same genetic strain of flesh that was as leaves on the human tree while jesus was physicall present, some of which were given soul/seeds at that time. Ti and Do said that the Next Level Above Human plans that the souls they wish to bring back for their next lesson step, they referred to as a trimester in a three trimester literal soul birth program needed to have physical bodies that would also be given soul seeding for the first time, a soul being a pocket or container (new wineskin) that holds only Holy Mind (new wine) and are a “match” for the lesson stage of the returning Soul.

Thus being born of flesh that Jesus said his disciples had to experience meant they (the souls) needed to literally “take over” – Do joked about it as a type of “body snatching”, also part of the idea of being “caught away” (raptured), though Do said that had more application to the process of the Kingdom of God pulling some out of their human world, which was demonstrated by Jesus saying to some, “follow me” and they did, dropping whatever they were doing and even leaving family and possessions, etc. behind to be with Jesus literally. That was being raptured, caught away from the world to no longer be in it, though having come from it.

Where this is confusing and this is always hard for me to express is that there is also the part of “meeting the lord in the air”, which was another way that Jesus spoke to when he said, some would be resurrected to life while others would be resurrected to death.

This I believe is talking about the “spirit/soul birth”. The depiction of a soul birth requires death of the physical body the returnign soul has taken over. Taking it over includeds not letting one’s vehicle do things against the Kigndom of God commandments but it also means the soul is overriding that vehicles(body’s) inheriant desire to live which means they are wllling to “take up their cross” and be hated and be killed (die in service to christ) which includes being permitted to lay their body down FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD/HEAVEN’S SAKE.

So if death of the physical body is required to be born of spirit/soul hat that would explain being caught up to meet the lord in the air, air being within the heaven(sky) part of the Earth’s overall atmosphere. This is in line with the revelations depiction of the harvest of souls in rev 14 that the angels use a sickle to cut the wheat stalk the wheat stalk then representing the physical body that the Soul had taken over and overcome it’s otherwise normal human fate. And Jesus also said that a wheat of corn needs to die to produce fruit and he of course demonstrated that himself, except his demonstration was to also establishe without a doubt that the Kingdom of God was a physicall kingdom. So for someone like Jesus said, who came from the Kigndom of God, they are the only ones that leave by ascending as he did though it’s normal for them to come physically and leave physically, though that’s rarely witnesses by many when that is the appropriate step.

Lucifer is intent on getting the elect to think that heaven is a spiritual kingdom. It doesn’t matter how illogical the idea is. So people walk around thiking they will die and be with the lord in heaven, that is if they lived a good life. Well, that has it’s truth if before that person died the kingdom of God determned that they had accomplished enough of a “good” life though the heaven is not “eternal” yet as they still have to be brought back to have a rigerous training program that includes overcomign their humanness in behavior and ways and even their attachment to life and ther family tree. If Lucifer can’t get us to think of God as a spirit alone or as the kingdom being a spirtual kingdom then the next best thing besides athesism is to think all believers will be ascended into the clouds to be with Jesus or that Jesus was in a ufo to take them up, which has some truth to it, but is confused because the space aliens are actually the fallen angels and the human and human equivilents bred to be their slaves, their being outside physical vehicles of their own, though they can take over some human vehicles as needed, though they gravitate to those that have the most influence over the most humans.

on September 29, 2011 at 3:41 pm | Reply  Henry
Sawyer,
You are going about things the wrong way. What it seems you are attempting to do is to validate the “ministry” of your so-called two witnesses by what they claimed and also based on the lenght of time they have been building this “ministry”.

What we should first do however is to examine whether these could conceivably be the two witnesses not based on what they have claimed but based on what SCRIPTURE says. Now, you have accused me of seeking to be an “authority” on different suggests but what I will say to you is that on the contrary I am to establish scripture as the only authority on any subject I raise here.

You have said that I have rejected your claims about the two witnesses based on “petty summations” etc but it matters not what they may have said, done or written. The first port of call is to examine whether these could be the two witnesses before even bothering to disect their claims. Lets look at it another way – if some person suddenly arrive on the scene and claims to be Christ do you give them audience first to see if their claims sound plausible? My answer to that is no Instead what I would do is see what scripture said on the matter. Does scripture say that Christ can suddenly appear on the scene and start to build a following? Does scripture give us a means to identify Christ when He comes? Does scripture tell us how Christ coming will be and what He will do when He comes? These are the questions I would seek to have answered before entertaining a Christ claimant for some 24 years. This is why I do not need to study anymore about your group and your teachings and belief.

SCRIPTURE is the only authority I need to reject such a Christ claimant who does not fulfil the prophetic words of scripture. When Christ returns all eyes SHALL behold Him and He will not return in scret prior to that appointed time. He said so clearly in His word in Matthew 24. He has stated clearly that we should not believe anyone who comes and claim to be Christ or anyone saying He is here or there.

on October 3, 2011 at 11:15 am | Reply  Henry
Sawyer,
Further to my last comment let me say that I delete your comments because this blog is about sharing in the gospel of Jesus Christ – but it seems you are more eager to promote the doctrine of your “two witnesses” and therefore does not fulfill the objectives of this blog.

Why do I brand your doctrine heretical? Heresy means “an opinion or belief that contradicts established religious teaching” – what you believe is not in conformity to Christ’s teachings and that is the truth. I do not condemn you as a judge condemns a criminal but if you put yourself outside of the Grace of Christ they yes, scripture says you are already condemned. But I want to show you the truth that you may not be condemned.

On your blog you wrote that Jesus is a space alien (ufonaut) from an advanced futuristic society “whose purpose it is to grow soul seeds they plant into new members via their voluntary participation in an “overcoming” experiential classroom that ultimately requires cutting our human roots in thought, word and deed.” This view of Christ does not conform to Christian orthodoxy and is therefore heretical. In fact you are talking about an entirely different Jesus here and not the one from the Bible.

Why does it not conform? It is not the Gospel of our Lord. What you have stated here is not in the Bible. Jesus the Son of God came into the world to die so that whoever believes in Him would not perish but have eternal life. He was made a living sacrifice to make amends for the sins of the world through the Grace of God. If we believe in this Jesus, that He died and rose again on the third day and ascended into heaven we may inherit eternal life – we must believe and repent of our sinss and receive Him into our hearts in order to be saved.

When we die in this life we do not merely shed a skin or a suit of clothing in order to take on a new one somewhere else as you believe. However, Jesus will again raise the said body we shed just as He raised Lazurus – it is this same old body that will enter into judgement. Those that are in Christ will have this old body transformed and made incorruptible but those that fall outside of His grace will be punished in hell. Those that gave their lives back in 1997 to be on a mother ship are not on any such ship – they are dead and awaiting the resurrection into the same body they left when Christ returns.

Talking of Christ’s return, again there is much confusion on your part concerning this. You have completely misunderstood what the scriptures were saying when they said that Christ would return as the lightening flashes from east to west. You interpreted this to mean that Christ would come as a light to those who can see Him. Not so! This scripture litterally meant that Christ will descend from the Heavens such that all eyes on earth shall see Him coming in the same way we see the lightening flashing across the sky. I hope you will consider these things and check what you believe in against scriptures and not attempt to strectch scripture to fit what you believe in.

on October 5, 2011 at 2:44 am | Reply  Hopeful_watcher
The jesus as a space being is an interesting concept, because I believe that a false Christ will present himself and that’ll be exactly how he comes. If so, there will be a lot of people, Sawyer being one if them, who fall for the lie.

on October 5, 2011 at 4:38 am  sawyer
That’s exactly right. Those that are most “electible” by the Kingdom of God to be on their team are those that are ready to understand that the Kingdom of God is REAL, not spiritual (confusing because it’s actually both), but REAL in that they have physical bodies, which Paul said as well (one of the few things he said that have real substance and don’t dilute what Jesus worked so hard to establish, that of course he didn’t know he was doing).

So where are these. Well, you won’t find many singing a strictly Christian line as most Christians don’t really know how to think about the Kingdom of God in a real way. It’s all about being raptured, ascended in their dead decaying bodies being brought out of the grave so they can be lifted up physically to meet Jesus who will be suspended in his 2000 yr old body that still shows it’s wounds, so they can check him out. Some know better than this fantasy but don’t have much of a clue how it can be different, and if they do, they either keep it to themselves so not to lose their job with clergy or whatnot, embarrass themselves with their peers, etc.

So the ones that are most in line see through the traditional christian view, as I just outlined just as the ones who were in line to SEE the real deal in Jesus as the Messiah were those that had not become entrenched in religio-spiritualism 2000 yrs ago, similar scenerio. The jewish leaders said over and over to jesus, “your changing what moses said so you must be the anti-moses, if you know what I mean, when Jesus was saying, “nope, I’m here to fulfill and bring you what’s next” if you want to qualify (become worthy) to reap the promised reward for all those who overcome.

So where do we find these. Well, they are spread out into all ways of thinking as they were the biggest seekers looking for the truth. And many got caught up in other religions, hindu, buddhist, islam, etc. while some became atheists and agnostics and some ceased looking, ceased “watching” “observing” so when the real deal came along and hit the national news, they weren’t looking or were entrapped by the “cares of the world” so the seed they were given could not sprout as easily, though it ain’t over til it’s over for anyone, but we must all be willing to break out of our comfort zone big time and ask God to help us SEE and that’s not exclusively by studying the records as intellectual understanding is limited by one’s experience.

And it’s true the Luciferians mounted their attack and planned what to do before the return in the ways they knew how by their past experience with the Kingdom of God whom they deny is the Kingdom of God because otherwise they couldn’t justify going against Them as they do. They are the space aliens we hear about left and right since the late 50’s in a highly accellerated way because that’s when they were allowed to be loose among humans, in sync with the arrival of the Kingdom of God’s team, Admiral and Captain and crew(saints, those who died on their behalf at any time previous but mostly 2000 yrs ago).

The Luciferians are the fallen angels of genesis and are the propogators of all antichrist behavior and ways though they talk peace and love galore.

The Luciferians, who are not one organized group at all. They are renegades and there are seldome going to be able to coordinate with one another. They are all lumped into Luciferian Space Aliens because they were all founded in their ancestry that continues on in the seed they left via reproducing with humans or by spreading their deciet and addicting humans to be slaves of their passions, their carnal flesh nature.

Where you find the most humanitarianism and peace and kindness in behavior are the “meek”, so Luciferians have comondeered their loyalties by helping them become successful in writing books or leading meditations or singing in kirtans or in joining the peace corps or in bible studies and evangelical work, helping the sick, doing good t hings for their fellow man but thereby thinking of having found their niche on how to be in god’s favour in whatever terminology.

Those that dove into study of scripture,etc. often locked themselves away from the truth because they became addicted to their own perceptions,like Jesus said, “thanks for enabling the simple minded to undersand vs the intellectuals”. It is all very simple.

when someone comes and says, “time to give your all” – “I’m from outer space, the literal heavens” here to take you out of here asap” “Got to leave it all behind and give me you undivided attention”. “you will be hated for doing so but that’s part of what you must endure” “And if they kill you because of it, then you got a boarding pass” “oh, and you come to me alone – no wife or husband as we dont’ do that in the next kingdom and no children as they can’t decide to take this kind of huge step” “my father will help find them someone to take extra good care of them, trust me on that” “our kingdom is many membered and we have physical bodies so will be leaving on what humans would call a spacecraft, though don’t know who will witness it.

These ways of thinking when announced to people, for those who are still looking and not entrenched in their human lives and have some roots in their genetic structures to the last time the Kingdom fo God physicaly took over human vehicles to do a task, are recognized. They know theri shepard’s voice so they don’t need convincing or proof. They exect to give their ALL. They expect to die doing so as that is what’s in their genetic memory banks and/or the memory of the souls from last time. They have this sense and faith that their phyiscal body is not them entirely and they have subconcious trust in God in this way.

Meanwhile, the Luciferians are stimulating emmisaries that appear to be the returned christ. They come saying, “I’m jesus”, or they infer it, when they realize that Jesus said he’d have a new name upon his return and that his return would be as a “son of man” in other words in the flesh again.

So cults thrive left and right and when does that peak. In the late 60’s early 70’s. When did Ti and Do meet and leave houston together knowing they had a wild task to do together, that they knew they were from outer space and knew they were here to bring updates and to fulfill prophecy in the bible, yet didn’t know yet what prophecy. they knew that each individual that wanted to go to heaven needed to go through their own christening, a trial by fire as it says in Isiah and Malachi and micah (one or two of them i believe). which amounts to mimicing christ in behaviour and ways, to do as he did, to give themselves totally to the Lord.

Then we see the world changing like crazy too. Civil rights flourishign with lots of battles, health consciousness, etc. In fact in every department of human life there were advances and sure those advances started well before the 60’s but are actually kind of traceible to the turn of the 20th century.

and isnt’ in interesting that in 1898 in a sleepy TEXAS town. Texas means the captains chamber on a ship. there was recorded in the newpaper that there was a crashed ufo and a being in it that died in the crash and was buried and is said to have a gravemarker.

I’d bet that was the Father Ti, coming in to set things up in the unseen world and in their invisible spacecraft.

Then with the roswell and aztec crashes 22 or so more.

And then by the 60’s most of the crashes had ceased. Those were the Captain and saints coming in, dropping the phyical bodies they were given in the process because they were looking to earn a new one that was incorruptible so they had to learn how to make their minds incorruptible by takign over a prepared chosen human horse and overcoming it, riding, the battle that would actually enable the growth of the soul seed they were given to hold the new wine they would get when they were physically with the Older Members (Admiral and captan) following with them everywhere they went, washing their brains, their suits of clothing, making them white by the sweat and self sacrifice of the soul who was the same soul as was in Jesus’ vehicle.

But the luciferians did not stop. The kingdom of god actually assigned each of these who joined with these two an advasary to challenge them while they regulated how much they could challenge them so not so lose them unless they ceases seeking help – the reason I flunked out.

What does lucifer do. He works all angels. He gets some to look at religions and say, that’s an illusion. This plaent is more than 6000 yrs old thus they must be blind sheep with mutated genes thus there must not be a creator. Got em! And then he says to some of the cream of the crop, YOU have it all within you. The kingdom of God is within you like JEEZus said. they love to quote one or two things jesus said. What jesus meant is that the kingdom of God gifts a human their seed, which is actually a soul, which is really that new wineskin to hold the new “holy mind/spirit” that the current representatie will dish out when we thirst to receive it.

The to christians he ties them up every which way, thinking all they need to do to be on the receiving end of God’s glory is to believe and pray for others and do some good works, give to the poor, confess our sins, try to do better and study jesus words while keeping the 10 commandments, all good things and in the first stage those things do have us gaining some control over our physical bodies and especially when the world is morphing into hedonism as a norm, pleasure seeking like it’s never before been seen but actually comparible to the last time the kingdom of god and the luciferians were allowed to be present. And religious worship for some who have overcome addictions or bad behaviors to wards others or abuses or others mentally or havign been abused seeking help is great for them, but then if they dont’keep their eyes and ears open and ask the Lord for what’s next for them to get closer to the Lord then the lord will still show them the next step but doesn’t force them to drink that water that satisfys that real thirst.

The real deal doesn’t need us to believe in them. The space aliens thrive on gettign humans to belive in them. The reports indicate they want/need humans becaus their planet is dying. Well yeah, that’s what the Next Level does when they decide the planet can no longer serve them as a garden. They either let it go or they make it change into something else but they always keep a door open for some to follow them to theri next garden start up project. They create the little wormhole to traverse a great distance in a snap and then they find the next planet teaming with life.

And the space aliens say they are from x star system. The Kingdom fo God are not from one star system. They “have no place to lay their heads” because they don’t sleep anyway nor do they have families like humans (while the space aliens do have families with children). The space aliens say they live much like humans. They eat and drink to survice and reproduce, which is why they need human dna, eggs, sperm. And they genuinely want humans to treat theri environment better becuse they think their planet went down hill because of their abuse of the planet, which no doubt there is some truth to, but I’m bet the greater reason is because the next level didn’t want to fix the problems the humans created with their nukes and toxic water and toxic food and drug addictions, lega or illegal, pollutions, and animal coveting behaviours, even arrogance, etc.
The garden becomes infested with weeds and simply needs retiling which is also what the members of the Kingdom of God say must come. Jesus said it and Ti andDo said it but niether stressed it or predicted dates as humans do.

When someone gets the “change of their mind” and thinks, “could it really be…” it feels as if one is losing their mind in some ways, can even blow a circut perhaps. I know I’ve felt that at times. It was years into beign with Ti and Do,while having seen and thought I understood the use of the term UFO’s being a craft of some sort, brought in a book called, crash at aztec and made it requireed reading. After maybe a week or reading it and with Do talking about it as part of the student body, it hit me….”could it be this is real, this alien stuff”. After all, I had been with The UFO cult for years by then and only then did I really open up to it as referring to something real. The crash at aztec new mexico had 18 bodies found and The FBI put out a memo that eventually leaked out. But there were autopsies and the book was huge with all this data. I think that crash was 1948 a year or so after roswell. I’d bet Roswell was Do and three of his closest students, perhaps peter, john and james or before that aaron, miriam and joshua. Just a guess. I know one of those bodies when autopsied blew Leonard Stringfields mind as it had no digestive or reproductive organs so they determined it was a robot as it also did not have flesh as humans thougth of flesh. Do didn’t say, but I suspect that was his vehicle, the one he was “sacrificing” for the task so he could take the human vehicle called Jesus that he came into completly at the john the baptist event so that he could then sacrifice it so his students and all who believed afterward had a chance to connect to his vine, his family tree that is not of this world.

So now that they left , but are coming back I believe, as the second coming was 1) blowign of the trumphet to get the “dead in christ” and then those who remained and believed and took the new names into their minds and when they were faced with it did not deny those names, which is yet to come once the green horse world leader comes to the stage which I suspect will be when the Luciferians are full steam ahead and are even going to announce the space aliens existence that will blow many minds and cause those that refuse to believe it to riot like never before to where anyone who believes in anythng from outer space will be on a hit list as being unstable and/or in league with the aliens.

Then after this and if christiasn thinking that they will leave before the tribulation haven’t realized they are in the tribulation, then they are totally blind.

But then when everyone has had plenty of opportunity to look at Ti and Do as who they are to decide for themselves, then Ti and Do and crew will come in and by then all the weeds and those that hate god in one way or another will have died from fear or from anothers hand and of course as natural deaths always occur, but the tares will all be gone. The only ones left will be the believers in Ti and Do. I’ll be dead, my vehicle that is as I need to prove myself by preachign the word until either my vehicle gives up but it’s more likley I’ll be arrested at some point and/or just shot whcih I don’t look forward to though in a way I do because if we don’t hate what we see going on in the world now it’s because the Next Level is keeping it down for a while yet in judea (the US but mostly west of the mississsippi) approx size of new jerusalem.

By then the Luciferians and the humans who most serve them unknowingly or knowingly will be dead or underground in some bunker – the bottomless pit and they will be chained there and a seal put on the cavern so they can’t communicate in any way to anyone on the surface, by thought as the infastruture of communications will be gone or inopperable as there will be all sorts of geogrpahical catastrophes right in line with all of this.

Oh, and look at some who to date are claimign to be jesus or the maitreya. Rael who actually says he was taken on a spacecraft and heard stories by some of a battle between someone names satan and lucifer. And who don’t create planets but outlive them becaus they by their technooogy can clone new bodies fsrom theri own dna that they can then move into. Yet they call themselvs the elohim from genesis but they don’t create planets. I couldn’t believe they just said this major inconsistancy. I think they can’t really see that there is a kingdom of God who created the planets and they dont’ want to be held to saying they do as then why can’t they fix global warming and such, so they tell half truthes. So now all these people who are atunned to the Kigndom of God having physical membership, thinking Rael has the keys so they are signing over theri will’s to rael and whatnot but he is doing nothing like Jesus did and yet everything like the catholics with a new age mix, whcih of course ti adn do are accused of too though they are millions of miles apart in every way which I could write another 5000 words giving examples of.

And alex collier is another one for the arturans. he insinuates he is a jesus for hsi alien friends.

and on and on and on, there are a bunch.

and we have the david icke’s who are teachign “mediation” is the answer – another illusion.

“believe if or not”

on October 5, 2011 at 4:54 am | Reply  sawyer
so are you going to delete my RESPONSE to hopeful watcher because he spoke of aliens and claimed i am an alien follower? Do I have to find a biblical passage to justify everything I say. I pretty much can but few will see it because few want to see it so they block it from registering.

I would response to the rest of your comment but I guess it’s a waste of time as you just want to be the judge and jury and fine, it’s your blog. I’ll post what I have written so those that do have eyes to see can see what I’ve said to you all.

But I know that you don’t know anything. YOu talk like you do but you are speaking from a dead perspective as there must be no life left in you or you wouln’t just parrot scriptures as if you understood them. Even your explanations jsut say the same thing becasue you don’t know how to see it differently and I don’t fault you for it but NOW you could know better so you will be judged by the Kingdom of God, still not by me because that is not my job or capacity I have been given. But you seem to love lording over and proably think I am doing that. But for the record saying that Ti and Do’s information is heretical if is is what I say it is, (which I don’t doubt by say that because you do) is the ultimate blasphemy and you will be held accountable for telling others that in a public forum. It’s one thing to think it or believe it. It’s another to influence others. The Kingdom of God will tolerate that just so long becore your vehicle is pulled up and then when that happens you will also be shown the truth which will be a torment to see but then your spirit will not be able to reverse that torment and it will be as if it is heppenign for enterity because youk will be out of time. Now, I won’t have any hand in dishing this out to anyone nor to I wish it upon you. I actually wish even if you don’t ever believe in Ti and Do that you cease condeming them and those that do believe by the posting of blog entries like you have. But if you insist on doing so, well then you can’t say you were not given fair warning. I actually say this for yorur sake. YOu will probably delete it anyway to save face with yoru few readers and I don’t care to hear any respnse either so it’s just betwen you and the one true kingdom of God the FAther and Son.

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