Archive for November, 2011

Jesus says he was being forsaken on the cross

November 28, 2011

Comment to sawyer:


Present Mission…

Today I went on; not to push, but tot share information with some of my Christian family member’s I decided to visit during my three day stay there, before my departure from society.
I went on to share with them, of the lesson’s I have learn, from the next level, for instance jesus-not God, but instead, an instrument of our creator, and reminding them of the times Jesus went into the mountain’s to speak to the creator, because he needed that private moment to be able to focus on his connection with the creator, and jesus last hour on the cross, and his conversation with GOD, in question; “why dear GOD have you forsaken me”? and thus departing after asking GOD that question; I’m certain the process of his final moment was longer than what is spoken of in the bible.

Yet my family appeared perplexed in some way’s, and went on to explain to me that Jesus is GOD, and so forth, I of course through the my studies in this area realize that Jesus when he spoke to his diciples, explained that he who know him knows the father who sent him with the information GOD gave him to give to us, in other word’s how to over come our humaness, and care not what happens to our bodies, but instead care more of what happens to our soul’s.

They in turn went on with the same misleading information, and I knew my place, and the next level information, well enough to; confidently leave those who walk with the blind continue to walk with the blind, and in a way felt sorry for them.

I found information in the book of Revelations which I will be putting out in the next couple of day’s, that reads near the end of chapter 2, and for those who prevail; I will give him the morning star-right away I thought of planet Venus, for it is the morning star; we will have access to planet venus, and as you continue to read, you will see in chapter 3, and you will survive the second death, meaning we will continue to live after leaving, or exiting planet Venus-very possible Sawyer that we will experience life in all of the nine planet’s, and eventually exit through the Sun into a new solar system; that reminds me of the promise, you will inherit the heavenly kingdom.

The information I am recieving is getting more interesting by the day Sawyer, and I so much needed to share this portion with you.
You are like a distant close brother to me, and this reminds me of the times, and day’s the apostles spend writing to one another.

Sawyer’s response:

Yes it is just like that time I feel.

If the shoe fits, consider that the reason Jesus and the Father are one is becasue Jesus desired it to be so, thus He drew on his previous relationship with the one he was for students sake referring to as his parent greek Pater, so they would relate to the relationship more realistically with their human experience as they go hand in hand.
When jesus was on the cross and said the part about forsaking, I believe what he was saying was, “where are you Father, I’m anticipating and desirous to see you” and he was doing that by actually repeating:
Psalm 22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [why art thou so] far from helping me, [and from] the words of my roaring?
where “forsaken” is:
a primitive root; to loosen, i.e. relinquish, permit, etc.:–commit self, fail, forsake, fortify, help, leave (destitute, off), refuse, X surely.
So he was wanting help, and perhaps specifically to be loosened from his vehicle that was sufferring.
I do believe the Kingdom of God does draw more distant from each of their students and workers at time to help them stand on their own two feet better, a big part of which is in their seeking their help. If everything was always hunky dory in life, what motivation would a mammalian human have to seek help from what we sense must exist that is certainly much greater than us.
I agree with your Christian relatives that Jesus is A God. The term God represents Theos in Greek used in many new testement places but the word is defined as “supreme beings, judges” just like Elohim in the old testment is a plural term and as it’s a “kingdom”, greek bastilla (sp?) there are “many members” the terms Ti and Do used to describe it.
Thus if someone comes from the Kingdom of God, representing that Kingdom of God and in particular their Heavenly Father as one who lives in the literal heavens and is above human, no longer in mammalian service/participation/evolution then when they are physcially present the Kingdom of God is at “hand” by a member of the Kingdom of God and thus a God.
It’s this illusion that ignores the evidence of many members, (angels, watchers, archangels, etc.) and speaks of their being One God in three parts as if they are all one which is true as there are Older Members (Fathers) and younger members(sons) and they all are inbued with the HOLY MIND/Spirit that they choose to want to continue to fill their being with.
So the trinity is talking to a structure definition of the Kingdom of God. The luciferians want us to think of God in totally illogicial ways as then when the real deal shows up, some may be fooled and not recognize Him/Her because they talk in none biblical terms with new terminology,etc.
I had been seeking to understand that reference to the “morning star” when it dawned on me, though I don’t know for sure if this came from Do’s mind, that the biggest candidate to be the morning star is the star that comes up every morning. The Sun which is actually named Sol and just like Soul.

Since we see Venus as a reflector that looks like a star to us, we think it is a star but does the Kingdom of God think of Venus as a star?
When they talk about giving us a star, it’s related to having a crown because one conquered succeeded in their assigned task. I know of the idea that it’s venus but there are no other indications of that being the location for a base of operations though the moon has such an indication. To see more of how star is used look at Rev. chapter 12 where it also says the “woman has the moon under her feet and wears a crown of 12 stars” which to me means she has conquered humanness in 12 different star systems of who knows how many planetary civilizations She participated in as a gardener overseer, Older Member.

However to those who overcome are given the bright and morning star. If it is the Sun what does that mean they are given it? Do they put their name on it or do they then have a crown with one star in it.

Ti and Do did indicate that Their students are part of a particular part of the overall genetic strain that the Next Level chose to relate primarily to, the Jews 2000 years ago and before. And having overcome their humanness, they are then in line to be on the primary crew that continues to do tasks related to the planet they graduated from as well as on behalf of all those who come to the reps after the reps have physcially exited. They then become nurturing gardeners of new human students and their task assignments are with that one garden, under that sun/Son. Thus giving graduating students a star for their crown having conquered making them a king or young “god” as Jesus said even the least in the KIngdom of Heaven is greater than the greatest human is by this way of thinking that seems to be founded in Ti and Do information, but I could be wrong since they didn’t directly address this scripture assigning them a TASK/Project to learn to tend a garden and it’s occupants.

Q & A – Is Sawyer thinking about starting a new [Heaven’s Gate] group

November 28, 2011

The following is my response to questions below having to do with whether or not I am thinking about starting another group.  I’m posting some of these remotely as my time is limited so I just forward it to the blog:

There can’t be another equivilent group unless the Next Level decides. I trust that Do at departure time knew that there was no such plans in the cards because they had the fruit of their labors and the next steps would become evident for all those who after their exit of their physical bodies believed in who they said they were. These garden experiments are very well planned while nothing is set in stone except that new applicants in any future programs need to make their desires clear by asking to be included and then expecting to be shown some steps they can take. However, that asking must be directed in the literal names Ti and Do as this way they are getting communication from those they know have accepted the seeds they planted.

But theorectically let’s say I had a dream that I saw/felt/experienced in the same way as the dozen or so dreams I have had with Do, with Ti, with 5-6 students at different times and it told me to try to organize such a group.

Well, then I would begin to ask to be shown how to proceed. And I would then watch for potential answers as that’s the way of the Next Level. They don’t come to anyone and lay out the whole enchilada of a plan because to them, each step is based on the response. Humans were created to decide for themselves what they wanted to believe about who they are, where they have come from and what might be their future. They can seperate those that they did not seed or did not take to the seed in such a way that there was any germination happening and those that are willing to germinate that seed by taking steps towards them.

What some are doing now, however they think about it is in a sense bringing their consideration of who these two were/are into closer focus, by asking questions, to which each are faced with seeking more or not, which is not absolute until each of us physically dies. In other words until then, which none of us know won’t be tomorrow, we can still seek more of who/what they said which is the content of their MIND and thus the receipt of as a potential catalyst to expand one’s own pocket(soul).

So I would have to keep on their straight and narrow band/wavelength by having them in mind while I ask and then like I said, going with instead of hampering or hindering the steps that will make themselves apparant as I go about life with this thirst/draw of what they would have me do.

This is a safeguard as the Luciferian type human and equivilent Space Aliens will not be allowed to operate against us – new believers or not, to a degree that could jeopardize our growth but we must ask for help with every hurdle. A hurdle could be seeing something about Ti and Do that troubles us. To jump any hurdle, it has to be faced and one does have to take the position that not understanding the Next Level’s perspective doesn’t mean the Next Level is doing something wrong. It simply means there is a hurdle to cross and one must be open to the timing of crossing that hurdle, while looking at the intended goal of wanting to keep their Next Level connection vibrant as to be jumped when the Next Level wants to reward us with the answer that we would have grown to receive, often enhanced by time of seeking.

And the Next Level would never indicate your doing anything that would harm anyone or ourselves physically or mentally though of course one could say that living is harmful to extended or eternal life as the Next Level will give each of us the most appropriate steps to take in our own growth and we are each an individual in that trek.

This is all a development of our “feeler” Ti and Do called it early on, a type of radar, call it an informed intuition and is associated with the Solar Plexus and associated glands of the human body but always remains our choice to receive and apply.

So if circumstances presented themselves for such a group, then if it felt good to go with it, I would take steps in that direction, seek how it feels and again watch the results and when I felt I was at a readiness for a next step, ask again.

If anyone ever feels like it’s just too much to hold onto as real so feels threatened, it’s because one has an advasary the Next Level is monitoring trying to influence us to throw in the towel and one might divert their attention to life activities that don’t keep that kind of challenging stimulus on the front of one’s mind. In other words take a break from study of Ti and Do material, even if it’s just hours. We can also ask the Next Level to give us a breather from the negativity that will bombard us as we accept more and more of what Ti and Do taught.

In other words this is all a process and one can only do things stepwise while willing to take the steps life is indicating and often that comes to others rather than to ourselves directly. I have many examples of this, way. I hope I haven’t been too out of focus in all this but Ti and Do called their task a process of seekign their Older Members’s mind and then implimenting it and often learning what NOT to pursue.

Luciferians can be imposters to us in our dreams,thus the reason we need a check and balance system.

In a sense such a group has been started as there are a core of 4 or 5 new believers I’m regularily in contact with and then others I know believe in Ti and Do but are not regularily communicating with me. However I don’t see how that needs to be organized further. If some organization evolves then I’ll seek Ti and Do’s mind as what if any participation I might have in it but in case it’s not clear:

I AM NOT OLDER MEMBER CAPABLE AT THIS TIME. In other words Do would not tell me I am to be an Older Member for new believer students. I can become one’s “check partner” which takes place if someone asks my advise.

So far I have resisted invitations to greater organization and also to the idea that I personally am filling an Older Members shoes though as Do indicated it is certainly advantageous to seek any active student for next level styled relationship, to learn what they experienced with Ti and Do. They will get their turn to be in those types of shoes.

From: Ryan
To: Sawyer heavensgate
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:32 AM
Subject: Re: Wondering about heavens gate?

Ya edit out my name man , but what about the starting up of the group again? Any thoughts of seeing that happen?

Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

Wondering about heavens gate?

November 27, 2011

Of course he had mental problems (difficult adjustments to make) – He ceased to believe he was strictly a human being, even with a soul/spirit but a member from the only real future, a physical kingdom of beings that are ALL evolutionarily above human in every way, physically, socially, environmentally, technically who are so good at what they do, the world and it’s living beings they experimentally develop and continue to evolve don’t KNOW they exist UNLESS they plant a seed of themselves into the mix, which they do periodically and their arrival is the most recent in history.

If you go to and look for 88update written by Do in 1988, he talks about the first 6 weeks he spent with Ti in Bourne, Texas where he says they both had a difficult time with this sense of who they were. When I say “who they were” it’s the MIND, the Soul package/container that their vehicles were prepped to receive coming into the brain, that had to be gradual and as needed, orchestrated by ….actually orchestrated by Them, those Minds before those days in early 1973, well before, even years, even many years before.

Do also said in that document that “not a day went by that I didn’t question my own sanity”, which he said because to get out of jail he had to take a psychological evaluation that he passed with flying colors. Someone who is insane, really insane ceases to identify with their insanity as something different than who they are. This is why we see in all the halls of governments, secular or religious leaders that will go to their grave insisting that their cruelty and deceit and lies and killing were all logical for the task at hand, what they needed to do to protect and serve and whatever it is they use to justify atrocities against other humans.

Thus of course people of this same ilk and with no MIND left from the Next level will at like an expert and lay claim to anyone they can’t or don’t want to consider what may have really been going on as insane, a religious fanatic. It’s the pot calling the kettle black. It’s their norm to be fanactical. Their fanatisism is just labeled, human and/or this or that organizational name political, religious, social, economic, spiritual on and on, thus anyone who crosses their norms is insane and they will point to whatever they can to justify it.

Also in 88update Do actually exposes his homosexuality that was BEFORE he met Ti and actually even a year or so before as Do also told us in person about his frustration with ALL sexual relationships he’s had.

He told us he met Ti while visiting a male friend in the hospital and there is all sorts of contraversy that he was in the hospital and whatnot, but the facts dont’ bear that he was ever in that hospital though Ti’s vehicles daughter Terri seemed to add credence to the story in at least the way it was reported as I haven’t spoke to Terri precisely about it, though I did converse with her for a time after I left in 1994. I just didn’t know at that time what she’d said to reporters though I knew of some letters she received from Ti and some think were evidence that Ti was not living up to who she said she was, which is another one of those huge stretches not substantiated by facts of what I observed of Ti for the 10 years she was using that physical vehicle named Nettles.

Anyway, what Do said about homosexuality, his or anyone’s is that it’s a genetic indicator that that strain had outgrown their gender consciousness, a necessary characteristic every aspiring member of the Next Level must overcome/conquer, though that doesn’t mean everyone needs to become homosexual. It has to do with the plant, the human’s gnome though some can still be hetersexual and also have just as much conquered their gender consciousness – it’s a fine line between actually as we all have both genders in our consciousess – both need to become one by graduation time which we just witnessed. But those who are homosexual are of course still acting sexually thus they have not overcome/conquered their human mammalian sexuality.

I know I’ve done a better job expressing some of this and you may find a post on my blog, to this effect as well as other addressign of the many articles about Ti and Do that actually continue to this day.

Some say they were all part of a cia plot and blah, blah, blah. In 1976 the FBI sought Ti and Do for questioning thinking they might have been the reason for the colorodo/oklahoma/wyoming cattle mutliations (ufo implications). Ti and Do ducked out of the meetign where agents were looking to question them though they(we) had nothing to do with anything of the sort. That was probably space aliens as u.s. gov’t would just raise cattle if they wanted to use their organs and blood for genetic engineering, as the space aliens have evidenced having an agenda for.

Note how Jesus was accused of all these things as well. Because it said Jesus laid his head on John’s breast some think he was homosexual and before he awakend to his task he may have been. Why doesn’t anyone suggest he was NONSEXUAL and he had trouble with that as the reason he went insane to think he was from the Kingdom of God when it’s actually fairly clear that the Kingdom of God has no sexuality(period), though of course no one hardly wants to look at that, just like Jesus was actually in a sense anti family, anti human family that is but really only for those who wanted to cut their ties “for the kingdom of Heaven’s sake” which is a must to give our all to if we expect to qualify to be on on of their teams.

All religions are moreorless country clubs with their pie in the sky ideas fostered by the Luciferian space aliens that only a thirsty seeded soul can/wants to sort through to find the truth in it.

I hope you don’t mind but I have little time these days and want to post what I say on my blog and you have included a last name which I don’t like to publisize so I hope you have used a false name but it’s not like you are a believer neccessarily so it may be of no concern to you but I’m going to send this to my blog as is and if you want me to edit out your name let me know. Acutally I’ll just do that.

From: Ryan To: Sawyer heavensgate <>
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: Wondering about heavens gate?

Do you think DO had mental problems and did his homosexuality play a role in this ?

I’ve been reading lots about it and these are just claims others have stated
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

What about yvvonne and leaving children to be in Ti and Do’s classroom

November 26, 2011

Question to Sawyer:

What I don’t understand is that woman yvonne and her husband came and joined the class just 6 months prior to their depature , as he left the group she did not follow and left her kids behind .

I could see the member who were with the group for year and more following these beliefs , I just can’t see how she could have believed and learned so much in just 6 months .

Do you have any thoughts on this ?

Thanks , Ryan
Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry


From a human perspective, which we all have to work with, Yvvone’s joining and exiting at the same time and in the same way would not seem right, but whether we beleive it or not, this was not a human endeavour.

What Do said about the students that joined in 1994 was that the earlier students have actually paved the way for newer students.

Do also spoke at times about how there were some who were not in the class but who were still learning their lessons.

I believe it’s also along the lines of the Jesus parable of the ones who worked in the field all day vs the one that worked for only a hour getting the same wage.

It’s not up to us who the Next Level draws to them and how they determine their readiness.

Ti and Do said early on that theorectically any of us could pass up our Older Members growthwise. However, the liklihood is slim because the Older Members got to be Older Members because they wanted to grow as fast as possible to where their Older Members could trust them to perform tasks in the way They would and their Older Members would because they develop a clear “pipeline” that they don’t want their self to get in the way of or distort.

In 1993 Evnody joined. Her vehicle was the sister of Stlody. Stlody had been one of the 19 that was sent out of the classroom (didn’t make the first cut, as Ti called it) in 1976. He returned to the classroom via Drrody’s continued quest to find the class as Drrody was also one of those 19. This was 1984 or so when these two rejoined in Amarillo, TX. Some years later Stlody left again and then in 1991 wanted to rejoin and was given the opportunity and this time his vehicle’s younger sister also wanted to join. She did and within months Do felt she had been so quick to conquer her humanness, that he assigned her postions of responsibliy others wished they could have or that might be seen as being in line for, for many years. There was no even steven when it came to Ti and Do. They assigned some positions of responsibility and we later learned that the Next Level did so to test their ego, whether they wanted to serve the Next Level or build themselves into somethign they deemed significant.

Yvvone knew those children were really not hers and she trusted that the Next Level would see to it that those children were well taken care of. That’s difficult to put ourselves into those shoes and not judge her or Do in some wrong.

In 1975 when we joined Ti and Do said that anyone we left behind would be well cared for by the Next Level. One could say, they were just saying that to get people to relinguish their conscience. The facts were that in one case in 1975 where somone I knew arranged for the real dad to take the two young children, this woman didn’t stay with the group very long and it was reported to me years later that she was never heard from again after she left.

When I joined I had no children so was not faced with that decision. I know it’s not an easy decision, the reason Jesus said, “woe to those who give suck” in those days. Jwnody was actually pregnant when she joined and she while on the road in 1975 met a family that really wanted a baby so she made arrangements and when it came to delivery time, she and her partner went to arkansas and delivered the baby and gave it to this family. I don’t know whether they did so legally or not.

Human vehicles are important to the Next Level but only from the perspective that they can become the host of Next Level mind who then can bear new fruit through. Like Jesus said, His father can raise up children to abraham from stones. We are like the grass. That doesn’t at all mean we disrespect anyone nor abuse anyone or anything or even ourselves. We need to treat others as we want to be treated and according to the rules the Next Level has passed to us as these teach us.

Some in the Ti and Do classroom worked hard to conquer certain things and seemed to continuously have difficulty while others seemed to sore through things easily while they often would hit a very difficult area. I am a case in point. I was considered to be an excellent student. Do told me on several occasions I had a lot to offer the Next Level. But then there was one lesson that I was not excelling in as much as I could have and it became an avenue through which the influenes could attack me and get into my head, which was human sexuality. However, I would not have even been tested in the way I ended up being tested if I hadn’t demanded of Ti that I receive faster growth to which I said to her (while she was outside her vehicle then) that I wanted a task like Do’s.

Hours after strongly asking/demanding that of Ti I had images of sexuality in my head that I didn’t have a clue how to stop though til then I becamse quite a good “nip in the bud” self thought controller.

I am sure that Ti turned up the heat and sent me a “bigger booger” an advasary they said we were all assigned and I gave in and could not even muster the desire to not give in.

We can look at fellow humans and we never know where they stand in relationship to what the Next Level might deem a prospect for eventual Next Level crew mindedness.

Sure from a human perspective yvvone was a troubled young woman who some would say wanted an escape from reality but then what is reality to the fish in the fishbowl?

Ti and Do vs Jim Jones

November 25, 2011

The following is an exchange on youtube re: diffences between ti and Do and Jim Jones.

Youtube Ti and Do critic:
Sawywer come on, you ask me to examine the evidence but you need to practise what you preach. When I refered to Jonestownn being the same as Heaven’s gate… well there is a huge similiarity. Two groups lead by the idea’s of one man. And both groups ending in the same result, the loss of human life before it’s time based on faith or the beliefs of that individual.
I can look at the human atrocities that have existed in my life time and surely will witness more as i grow older, but I can’t see how that will make me think any different of Ti and Do’s theory’s. The difference is I will look at the atrocities of mankind, war, famine,the weather etc have created and think “what can we do to make this better” or I can look at Ti and Do’s example which is “Let’s give up and do a runner”.
And the evidence you presented of space craft does not act as evidence to Ti and Do’s theories one bit. Even if there were guaranteed evidence of space craft that doesn’t confirm that we will board these vessel’s by killing ourselves.
I want to understand your way of thinking and I suppose I was to harsh with the comments I left on your page for which I apologise. I am fasinated by these theories Ti and Do made and I am fasinated with “cults” and human beliefs and behaviour which is why I looked them up on the net but my first reaction when I learned of their demise was one of horror and despair. I simply find suicide to be devastating.
Sawyer’s response:
Suicide is NOT an answer to anything. That’s not the Ti and Do message. If someone lives their whole life based on certain principles and let’s say they were the epitomy of a giving/loving person and then decides to take their own life, does that event define them. Now that’s not a good example really, but so many people think because they killed themselves they had no value or offerred nothing or had no good(useful) reason. Most assume it was evil to useless. But why assume anything? What does drawing conclusions accomplish? Why not withhold judgement. Isn’t it perfectly clear there are tons of huge things in this world we DON’T understand? Can one count on science to explain everything? No, we can’t. Science is just a process to try to get to understand how things work. We could never understand any of them and guess what, those things would still work. Nothing in nature is depentant on any humans unless humans force it to depend on them.
I really don’t want to convice you. It does me no good. I gain nothing. I dont’ go to other believers and say, “I got one to convert”. I dont’ even assume current believers are 100% a believer in what Ti and Do said/did. I will take my experience to the grave whether someeone believes in what I believe in or not. The deck is already very stacked against me in this.
Now to say jim jones and Do were the same because they were both “groups led by one man that had the same end result” is very inaccurate. First off, if you looked at Ti and Do you will find that Ti, the woman who “got Do started” and told us (their students) we’d have to “give our will to them” only after being with them 5 years or so, there’s a huge difference. They were TWO. How many cult leaders were TWO with the same mindset? You will find some now of course as they have since sprung up, but before or during the time of Ti and Do very few and if you do find some their agenda will greately vary.
Have you watched and listened to the video footage of Jim Jones preaching during the jonestown massecur? If not you need to, so you can see just how very different in many ways they are from Ti and Do. Then look at the reaction of the people – crying, weeping and running away with Jim Jones goons holding rifles to them – It was either drink the poison or get shot at point blank range in the head. What would you do? Then look at the film of the students of Do. Well thought out. No threats, Visual/audion explanations by many students about how they loved Do and the Next Level (kingdom of God) and were glad and honored to be ending their task.
Of course to someone who has no sense of a reality beyond death, this makes zero sense but then Jesus and Moses and all would also make zero sense. jesus especially was not concerned at all with preserving the life of the body, but preserving the life of the soul. If that sounds like a fairy tale then of course anything about Ti and Do would follow likewise.
But not entirely neccessarily. One doesn’t have to belief or have experience with anything to be willing to “reserve judgement” and yet still want to observe more.
The third HUGE difference and I can’t stress how huge this is and how it differs from nearly EVERY if not EVERY group:
In the Jim Jones group there were full families. There were moms, dads, and children galore. Ti and Do would not allow any children becasue they said a child could not decide for themselves to believe in what Ti and Do were saying and act accordingly. AND there were no FAMILIES. None. If a mom and daughter joined, they were from that moment on operating as if they were not related. That didnt’ at all mean they would be mean to one another or ignore one another. And there was NO SEX. These are HUGE beyond decription differences because jim jones was teachign same old human relationships with god talk occasionally while Ti and Do were expecting theri students to discard everythign they were including induldgence in sexuality.
Even Sun Yuny Moon married off his students. None of Ti and Do’s students ever had sex together let along a marriage ceremony like that though they did have committmenrts to help one another in their overcoming of all their humanness.
There are dozens of more examples.
Then there are dozens of direct prophesises that Ti and Do clearly and direclty fullfilled, and in the proper terminological definitions pertinent to their time period and language.
But you’ll have to watch all my youtube video’s to begin to see all this and read most of my blog articles.
Now with this said, this does not mean that what they did in any respect is being offerred to you or anyone in such a way that you are doing somethiung wrong to not want it or not want to pursue it further.
There is so much more but I’m weary so perhaps I’ll continue in some way soon.

BREAKING NEWS: Space and Earth Scientists On Edge

November 21, 2011

Not that I’m any kind of wizard but I’ve been saying for years that the Sun is by far the biggest reason for the Earth global warming patterns and that the global warming enthusiats that are so bent on human activity as a primary cause are in many cases afraid to consider such. Anyway, Mitch below makes some great points:

Some comments from Youtube Inside Edition documentary on Heaven’s Gate

November 19, 2011

Segments from youtube comments. I am 3spm on youtube:

Here is the video they are commenting on:

you know you’re in trouble when one of the offenses is “trusting my own judgment – or using my own mind”
mrshixaction 4 days ago

(Sawyer note: These were some of the major/minor offense list, so this person did a little more homework than most).

@mrshixaction Unless you want to be in trouble with continuing to be human & you KNOW by experience, pastlife even & past in terms of their current physical vehicular incarnation. Under Jesus direction if what Jesus said means anything to you, (not what the religious say about Jesus), you MUST be seen as in “trouble” as you put it – be rejected by even many of the members of your own family but hated in the same way Jesus was hated as in his day he was certainly seen as a dangerous cult leader.3spm 15 minutes ago @mrshixaction Now the Luciferian Space “fallen angel” aliens twist everything up for human consumption so that some religious cheer when people act hatefully towards them. But this is a twist because they often stimulate that hate by getting into peoples faces, condeming them and their actions, like they have that right because Jesus did when they aren’t close to Jesus perspective and authority. The current idea of Jesus when it comes to all the specifics doesn’t resemble the real person.3spm 11 minutes ago @mrshixaction This perspective of Jesus also points out the popular idea of late that the entire Jesus story was made up to control people or lure them. If that was so, then why is it that nearly 100% of the people who claim to be his followers (or followers of the fictitious story) aren’t following any of the details of the main character in it. It’s because this way Jesus can be popularized & profited by while steering people against what He really said calling it cultish. A Luciferian ploy.3spm 5 seconds ago

why do they all have nike shoes??
Apfitt 5 days ago

@Apfitt from what research I’ve gathered from various internet sources, the nike tick symbolises (vaguely resembles) the comet that was the “sign” that Do was waiting formrshixaction 4 days ago @Apfitt The slogan of Nike then was “Just do it”. They were responding to feeling it was time to just do it & it has this double meaning, a frequent way the Next Level does things with words for human digestion, that was “just Do (as in the name of their Older Member/Heavenly Father, Parent/midwife from the literal heaven’s (outerspace) it”, in other words, “do it for Do” whom they had extended all their trust to & who authorized their following with him in exiting at that time and in that way.3spm 3 minutes ago @Apfitt I’d never heard anything about the Nike symbol looking or representing a comet. It certainly could have and they could have also enjoyed that symbol looking like a comet, but from mrshixaction’s comment to you it could have sounded like They indicated that was the reason they laid down their lives which was certainly not the case and I know having been with them dedicated for 19 years as my video’s evidence. The comet was the timing “sign/token” just as Jesus said would occur.3spm 6 seconds ago

Some thing about these people’s faces is wrong. It is like they had teeth removed. Maybe some of them were taking small doses of the poison with hopes to immunize themselves to the final drink?
evildnalor 2 weeks ago

@evildnalor Not a chance as I was with them for 19 years and I also have missing teeth. They were not trying to get out of doing what they knew they were about to do. The ones who had reservations left, were asked to leave, were ordered to leave (temporarily or for as long as they wanted, though didn’t have the option to return unless Do granted it them, which he did not always do). Their discontinuence of human activity did wear on them & they couldn’t afford routine root canal/cap work.

God did NOT put us on this earth to destroy ourselves… the end
MrMeineNamen 3 weeks ago

@MrMeineNamen Then why are so many destroying themselves including 99.999% of those who claim to be so godly? I understand the difficulty w/ their actions for you. If you consider they were the “second coming” you would really be on the god hot seat with yourself and all you relate to. It’s fearful! I actually experienced that in coming back to being an “active student” again as though I left never disbelieved in them. But I had a daughter in 1997, thus became tied but Do still accepted me back.3spm 5 seconds ago

Love the list of rules, especially “offenses: using my own mind”…maybe they should have thought about that one.
inorbit30 1 month ago

@inorbit30 That’s what real belief/trust meant to Jesus as well, which is why he said to his disciples they would drink the same cup he drank & be baptized w/ the same baptism he was baptized with, which was basically sacrificing one’s physical body by telling the truth to those who hated to hear it. The difference this time was they were ready to repeat that lesson but came at a time when society had been advanced to allow divese views in the new nation so little danger of being killed for it.3spm 8 seconds ago

they all just needed some friends… thats allYoungDrivenForDreams 1 month ago @YoungDrivenForDreams Sorry, they all had friends plenty in one another. They lived very happily here. I was with them for 19 years. However, they had to work hard to discard all their otherwise normal human ways and behaviour to have that happiness. That’s why Do even offerred $1000.00 for anyone to leave in around 1990, because the lifestyle did become quite comfortible though the students by then didn’t care about comforts and such which is why they could have them. 3spm 5 seconds ago

(AT 6.50) it was designed to make people not think for themselves …
so how is that any different then any other religion?
cherryhollowboy 1 month ago

@cherryhollowboy Actually I would agree that many or most of the religious are not thinking for themselves, but there is a great deal of evidence that no humans are really thinking for themselves that much as what humans are, are computer systems that grow that when dead remain as like a mental snapshot programmed object, termed a “spirit” that seeks to “live” by influencing existing humans according to the host living humans allowing them to share head space/action time. These discarded those.3spm 25 seconds ago

Applewhite had cancer and was going to die soon anyway. He just did not want to die on his own. So he took his people with him by lying to them about a comet hiding a spacecraft. What a twat.The24547377 1 month ago @The24547377 I always thought that his depression/anxiety and paranoia was getting to him and he wanted to end his life, never heard the cancer thing before.starkiller20293 1 month ago @starkiller20293 Sorry, I knew the man for 19 years. Those stories of his depression, anxiety and paranoia were distorted and exaggerated and some of which were bred from the days before he met Ti (Nettles, the Rev. 12 woman, he recognized to be his Heavenly FAther He termed His Older Member), the same soul that was with Jesus helping him and with Moses helping him, Do being the same soul as had incarnated into Moses and Jesus. My video channel evidences this. 3spm 6 seconds ago @The24547377 This was a lie put out to turn people from seeing Him/they for who they really are and I can prove it by 24 years of their history which I was a part of for 19 and you can see on my youtube channel if you dare and they even stated that it didn’t matter to them whether or not there was a companion with the comet as the comet was simply the marker/token/sign for exit they were looking for. You can still see that at heavensgate(dot)com . However Do may have had cancer, most of us do.3spm 4 minutes ago

I’m been communicating with someone down below who said wikapedia says applewhite met nettles while he was a patient in a psychiactric hospital which is not what Do said. However I may have stumbled on the whole truth. It may well be that The “male friend” Do said he was visiting when he met Nettles(Ti) was actually in the psychiactric ward where Ti was subbing for another nurse as her assignment was talking care of premie babies. I still don’t know this but it makes some sense.3spm 2 months ago @3spm Rob Balch had researched this and stated the same thing that Do had said, that He met Ti while he was visiting a friend in a hospital. Do had said on one of the tapes that she had come into the room to administer some prescription to a patient and that she also was looking after infants in another ward so it seems like it was a conventional, rather than a psychiatric hospital. crlody1 2 months ago @crlody1 Funny, that I recently was reviewing old articles and one was quoting Rob that it was a psychiactric hospital, but we all know how things get twisted in the media and especially when their influences want lots of reasons to build a case against. Plus I suppose Rob might have said that at one point but then researched it further and like you said determined Do’s story was truthful. The last thing Do would do is lie. He had no reason to do so. Of course that’s hard for most to recognize.3spm 2 months ago @3spm Have you ever lied about something at anytime in your life? I ask this because you say Applewhite would never lie or have any reason to lie, but people will lie or do things like lie for all sorts of reasons whether it be personal reasons or otherwise… I’m not suggesting he did lie but the possibility is there…. to say that he had no reason to lie or the last thing he would do is lie is a conclusive statement…. i’m not arguing with you & I respect your beliefs…ogrebattle22763 1 month ago @ogrebattle22763 I meant, after his awakening and pertaining to things he told the entire group of students, some of which he knew would not be his student to the full distance. He was very protective of his credability because he knew how people would crucify him for any infraction making it harder for some to come to at least “consider” He and Ti were whom they said they were. Now, he did tell “white” lies. For instance for years he didn’t have a drivers licence but drove & used assumed names.3spm 1 month ago @ogrebattle22763 However, I don’t care to convince you of anything, really! That’s not a lie at all. I’m only following up with you on the One point in the claim/accusation that he was deranged and/or beside himself or whatever it was you said or quoted from some article. Of course this all looks crazy, but looks are not often what we think they are, though if one has little or no experiences to teach that, it doesn’t make sense and looks like jusifications. 3spm 1 month ago

BUAHAHHAHHHAHHHHAAA! ALL OF EM LOOK LIKE WEIRD GEEKS..REJECTS!! RUDE AWAKENING WHEN THEY FIND THEM SELVES IN HELL! BURNING FOR ALL TIME AND ETERNITY..THERE GOES UR SPACE SHIP BUDDY…PSYCO! Do not be a fool–why die before your time?” (Ecclesiastes 7:17)1kaitae 2 months ago @1kaitae I’m not dead, are you?3spm 2 months ago @3spm what do you mean ur not dead..ur response dont make no sense..if ur typing than ur obviously not dead..duhhh1kaitae 1 day ago @1kaitae First off, what was the circumstance in the Ecclesiastes quote & who was talking. I beleive in Jesus not David or whoever was saying that, though I’m not saying it’s not a valid point. After all, “before your time” means what? Did Jesus die before his time? Did he have to arrange to be apprehened knowing it would result in his body being put to death? No. HE DECIDED IT WAS HIS TIME. These decided it was their time. But you also might consider Jesus definition of life & death…con’t3spm 2 hours ago @1kaitae con’t…Jesus definition of Life was meeting the strict (rod) qualifications to receive membership in his world(kingdom) that was NOT of this human world but was nonetheless real and physical (many dwelling places) – no place to lay their head (as they arn’t terrestrial anymore) (not to be confused with space aliens, who are all human equivilent terrestrial beings) & was “eternal”. Death was not connecting to his family tree, thus dieing physically AND in the 2nd Death – spiritually.3spm 2 hours ago @1kaitae What many people are confused by is in thinking they are in the exact same frame of mind as these who laid down their lives when 99.99999999999% are NOT, thus for these it would be suicide and insane and stupid with one exception that I believe would be very rare. Observing this, they would have to realize that Do and Ti and students were exactly who they said they were and couldn’t stand to not go to wherever they were going with them, as Do said was an open door for a while…con’t…3spm 2 hours ago @1kaitae There were 3 who did feel this way & layed down their lives in 1998 in the same kind of way but these 3 knew Ti & Do personally from 1975 but because of their difficulty learning the lessons while in their experiential “classroom” wern’t with them then. One known as Oscar asked to join the group after living without them but wanting to rejoin them for some 22 years having first joined in 1975. Do said he couldn’t join them but could live near othes who were believers outside the group.3spm 1 hour ago @1kaitae I said I’m not dead because Do has made it clear to me, through dreams of him that He can use me and that I am required to “give my life” which leaves me the option(Do’s way) on how and when and to what degree to give my life to Him in His Kingdom. While a member I thought myself fully committed to the end of the vehicles (my body’s) life, even to do what they did, but I’ve learned since I was not where they were at in love for Do. I was too into myself even after 19 years with them.3spm 1 hour ago @1kaitae Now this does not mean I can assume that when my body expires by whatever means that I have anything more than a chance that my Soul, (like an organ the Kingdom of God gives as seeds to those humans that want and ask for it, and demonstrate that want by opening up to, at this time Ti & Do as the so called “second coming” (not saying they won’t return one last time, though not “undercover”) will be saved/kept on ice (so to speak) to be brought back for a new chance to overcome humanness.3spm 1 hour ago @1kaitae And if I changed my tune & started to talk against Ti and Do or tell people there is not a Physical Evolutionary Level Above Human (above space alien human equivilents) aka the Kingdom of God from the literal heaven’s, then I would be siding with “mammon” (greek mammonous), Luciferians fallen angel space aliens, which is basically Human Kingdom Worship that includes human forms of wealth, money, things, fame, intellect, talent, spiritual understanding, religiosity, etc.) & I’d be DEAD.3spm 1 hour ago @1kaitae I understand how many can see these students and think they are geeky or dorky, wierd as they certainly were all those things but it was because they had detached as much as could be expected from their entire human kingdom behavior and ways, likes/dislikes, habits, addictions, mindsets, self centerededness to in a real sense become like little children, dead to the human world, having extinguised all their sensuality and washed their brains of human thinking, thus were ready to exit.3spm 1 hour ago

You know these people are having a great time on their spaceship. I hope they got good seats.100cjkennedy 2 months ago @100cjkennedy They did and I saw them in a dream early this morning and they were on their way back. The world is going in exactly the path Ti and Do said it would which began in earnest following their departure, initially in 1997 and then away from Earth by 2008 as I have many dreams to testify to. I was with them for 19 years and have lots of evidence that they were exactly who they said they were, The Father, Jesus and their saints returned as promised for harvest time.3spm 2 months ago I remember hearing about The Heavens Gate cult killing themselves & it was just another example of how people can be so easliy taken in by twisted people like Applewhite who have really disturbing personal backgrounds… I wonder if any of these cult members even knew about this guys past or anything about him really…ogrebattle22763 2 months ago @ogrebattle22763 Yes we knew of Do’s (applewhites) past but what did you hear about him that was so disturbing. I know he dropped out of seminary, was in the military in communications, becamse a music director, was an opera singer, married and raised children, then divorsed and found himself to be gay inclined though eventually, before meeting Ti (bonnie) was fed up with all sexual relationships. I can’t confirm or deny he was in a psyciactric hospital but know he didn’t meet bonnie in one.3spm 2 months ago @3spm Look it up for yourself Wikipedia him….. He was in fact in a hospital you say you can’t confirm that but that is not true… you also say he never met his counterpart in the hospital that is also not true…ogrebattle22763 2 months ago @3spm Why are you saying that you can’t confirm that he was in a Psychiatric Hospital when this is well documented… you are claiming that you know he didn’t meet Bonnie in one & that is also well documented… so what you are saying isn’t adding up…ogrebattle22763 2 months ago @3spm I ‘m curious when other people who show interest in the cult ask questions regarding Applewhite’s past do you tell them the same thing? Because if you claim that you can’t confirm these things about him or her for that matter your not telling the truth…ogrebattle22763 2 months ago @ogrebattle22763 Do told us the story of his meeting Nettles several times & wrote about it in the document 88update.txt, available at heavensgate(dot)com and my blog sawyerhg(dot)wordpress(dot)com . He said he was “visiting a male friend” who was in the hospital where Ti, as a nurse took another’s shift as her assignment was in the premie baby ward in this houston hospital. Ti never worked in a psychiactic hospital so that is collaboration of Do’s story. Plus Do had no reason to lie.3spm 2 months ago @ogrebattle22763 If he wasn’t going to lie about that, why would he tell us that prior to meeting Ti he had homosexual relationships, though that’s not in 88update though he makes mention of the “male” friend. And what’s to be ashamed about, if he had at some point checked himself into a psychiactric hospital as was reported, and especially if it was because he wasn’t happy with his sexual choices? He didn’t tell these stories to us until around 1988, 12 years after we’d been faithful students.3spm 2 months ago @ogrebattle22763 He did not tell us much detail of many aspects of his life. Around that time he told us this, he confronted us with a consideration: He said, “what if I’m not from the KIngdom of God? What if I’m just someone who wants to be or has good intentions”. Now some could say, he felt guilty and wanted to try to get rid of his students but, you know, there is always someone who comes up with their psychology on things that happen. I know people think the students were victims.3spm 2 months ago @3spm Gee I wonder why he didn’t tell you or give you much detail about his life…ogrebattle22763 2 months ago @ogrebattle22763 You said, “Gee I wonder why he didn’t tell you or give you much detail about his life…” Is that sarcastic? You have your mind made up that he was hiding things so not to lose his students and that he was insane/psychotic, etc. I know that is the prevelent view and pertaining to human norms certainly was insane as was Jesus and as was Moses and as must be any true member of the creators kingdom. But even talk of spirt is insane to some & talk of conspiracies is insane to some.3spm 2 months ago @3spm Wait it wasn’t a sarcastic comment it was a inquisitive one….ogrebattle22763 2 months ago @ogrebattle22763 re: where Do met Ti subject: I was re-reading old articles and one suggested without providing souces that Ti was actually subbing for another nurse in the houston hospital’s psychiactric ward as her assignment was talking care of premie babies. I still don’t know this but it makes some sense.3spm 2 months ago @ogrebattle22763 I just don’t have the time/energy to try to answer all your questions. I understand that this is probably near meaningless to your life, thus just a little casual chatting and that’s fine but it’s not that for me. The areas that are inaccurate are insignificant anyway. If you’ve had any experience with media and human ways, you KNOW humans make lots of assumptions though state things with authority and are mostly absolute and judgemental so slant things as they see fit.3spm 2 months ago @3spm Did it ever occur to you or the rest of his followers that maybe the man had much more serious issues mentally & emotionally then he was willing to share or reveal?ogrebattle22763 2 months ago @ogrebattle22763 I knew Ti and Do’s claims were seen as insane by most. When I joined in 1975, by October I was moreorless on my own with a partner going town to town telling about them. I was hitchhiking for much of the next 6 months without any contact with Ti and Do or others who had joined. If Do told me at any point that he had been in a psychiactic hosptal, even because he thought he was jesus or to conquer drug addiction or homosexuality, it would not have swayed me. I was not unusual.3spm 2 months ago @3spm Well tell me this…. did you see anything wrong with he taking his life & asking his followers to follow him in killing themselves? Because its one thing to have followers – follow his path in a life of peace & quiet if that’s what they chose to do but then take them in such an extreme opposite direction as to convince them that killing themselves was somehow all ok & that they were better off dead then on this planet is just not ok do you see where I’m going with this…ogrebattle22763 2 months ago @ogrebattle22763 What I can’t confirm is whether that story of the psychiactric hospital was made up, assumed, because they did meet in a hospital, (to make him look insane, to go with what to most was an insane action), or because he actually had been in one at some point prior to meeting Ti or after meeting Ti. Yes I do generally say the same thing but this is the most I’ve talked about the psychiactic hospital. I need to update wikipedia. There’s a bunch in there that’s innaccurate.3spm 2 months ago @3spm Right…. it’s interesting because first you said that you knew for sure that he didn’t meet Bonnie aka Ti in the hospital when in fact that is where they met… now your saying that you can’t confirm any of his or her history & that his history with the hospital might be made up? Yeah ok…. ogrebattle22763 2 months ago @3spm You claim there is a bunch in there that’s inaccurate like what? ogrebattle22763 2 months ago @ogrebattle22763 Why do you care, your mind is made up and that’s fine with me. I don’t want you to be any other way and there are some that will actually have had enough life experience and observation to discern more reality from illusion and deception that dominates the human population while most want to continue in their comfortable ignorance. This world will escalate in troubles til nearly all flesh is gone. So enjoy your mockery for as long as you can.3spm 2 months ago @3spm I’m not mocking you why are you getting defensive it’s your choice to believe what you want to believe as I I am just asking you what inaccuracies you mean?ogrebattle22763 2 months ago @ogrebattle22763 crlody1 said, “Rob Balch had researched this and stated the same thing that Do had said, that He met Ti while he was visiting a friend in a hospital. Do had said on one of the tapes that she had come into the room to administer some prescription to a patient and that she also was looking after infants in another ward so it seems like it was a conventional, rather than a psychiatric hospital”. Balch is considered the most knowledgeable non-believer, a professor at U of Montana.3spm 2 months ago @3spm I never heard of him but I’ll look him up & see if there’s any credibility about him or what he says… But Applewhite claimed that he was a visitor visiting a friend… & that he never checked himself into this psychiatric hospital which was documented about him… well who knows really…. A friend of mine did bring up an interesting point which I will share with you & that is most hospital whether it be general or pychiatric don’t give out or release information of any kind about peopleogrebattle22763 1 month ago The only people that join cults are easily fooled and manipulated and are idiots.TheManifested 2 months ago @TheManifested Then you’d better drop out of the human race. If you don’t think billions of people are being fooled and manipulated in direct and indirect ways they excuse or ignore, through religions, through spirituality, through science, through politicing, through every field and every career path, you are either very young or very naive. Look at atheists, not any worse than religionists really, but many of them think science explains our origin because they can see some patterns.3spm 2 months ago

Ti and Do give an example of how to treat anger projected at you

November 19, 2011

This reminds me of a story ti and do told us.

Early on when Ti and Do, then not even Bo and Peep, but perhaps “Guinea and Pig” were driving somewhere, when some people came up behind them who were unhappy with their speed on a two lane mountain road. (Ti and Do would have been safe but not overly cautious drivers and were not impaired in any way so I doubt it was below the speed limit, though that’s not the issue). Anyway, those in this car soon roared past them and as they did were yelling things and giving the finger to them.

They paid it no mind, blocking it from causing them any concern or hurt feelings. (I don’t know if they had to conscious block the other car’s occupants apparant anger or if it was simply like swatting a mosquito for them by then as they had bigger influences to deal with).

But how often would most be stimulated (as I at times) to return an equally angry response? They kept driving and a very short time up further on the road they saw that they had crashed off the road into the ditch. They didn’t give any further details but said that because they didn’t entertain the anger projected at them, (in other words as I see it now, the anger had no place to lodge so) they said it was reflected back to the instruments of its delivery (and I presume would have made them angrier that made them even more reckless to where it came to a head in crashing). It was forced to express itself but applied to them instead of affecting Ti and Do at all.

I guess that example also relates to the rev 11 prophecy that whatever someone does to the two witnesses will be what happens to those doing the wishes accordingly. Sounds like the Jesus idea of “do to others as you’d have them do to you” can also work in reverse. What you do to others will come back at you – the new age idea that didn’t originate with the new agers as karma, even the modernized idea of instant karma.

And it also relates to the old testements, “the sins of the fathers are revisted upon the sons for 7 generations” (thus the next level even stops the karma at a certain point, to I presume give parts of the genetic strain a new chance and/or that this is related to when the Next level sends a rep, the same thing, who by The Older Member(s) and potentially their crews presence brings new opportunity to all the life forms on the entire planet by injecting their minds into the planetary atmospherically contained, “spirit world”.

New post ISS camera follows UFO – NASA cut transmission again – Nov 17, 2011

November 19, 2011

Comment to post re: remnant of the elect

November 17, 2011

For some reason when I comment on blog posts, they don’t post, so I have included my comment here again which will also go to my blog.

For those that read my blog, the following comment is in response to a post by Bro Gibs who posted his thoughts on the “remnant” who I believe to be those in the “second harvest” of rev. 14. So here is his post following by the comment I made that would not post:

Hello Bro Gibs, Sawyer here as per your invitation. I’d glad to hear you are pulling on multiple scriptural evidence to make your points and seeking to make no assumptions – get to the meat, the core of Jesus intention.

I agree the “remnant” are a piece of the core or what’s left from the core and I agree that we must overcome to reap the full rewards promised. As you know Jesus wasn’t absolute that belief=eternal life but was absolute that without belief it’s not possible at all but that each of us must overcome. But of course many think of belief as proclamation of allegence, when if one looks it up, it is that but it is also trusting and thus having faith in Our Father in heaven’s guidence of us, according to our asking for “his will for us” day to day, even hour to hour, though not so often that it becomes wrote, automatic and vain(empty of substance).
Thus a question I believe every Christian must confront is …what did Jesus mean by Overcome, also tranlated to “conquer” in many places?

What do we need to overcome to reap the reward. (AS soon as I say that, I’m flooded with thoughts that accuse me of thinking/saying/insinuating we earn our way into Heaven).
And yet, we actually must. It’s just not done by coming up with our own forms, but rather to stick to the straight and narrow guidelines/commandments Jesus gave and the forerunner rules/qualifications/commandments from Moses though with certain updates as this is entirely a process.

No one goes from belief to overcoming with one flesh experience, which is why he told his disciples (not necessarily told to any others) they must be “born again” of water/flesh also termed the resurrection of the just and the unjust.

Now I can hear the barrage of thoughts that say…oh, you are talking reincarnation and that ‘s new age so you are off track.

However there is a HUGE difference to all the varied ways reincarnation is taught by eastern religionists and those they influenced in the west.

The Lord chooses which Souls, He saved because they believed in His Son while part of a human body, to bring back for their next “trimester” towards their personal “spirit birth” and their task upon return is to literally take over a living human body who was asking to be in service to the Lord thus the host of the returned soul is still operating in a free will state.
Additionally, the human genetic tree will continue to produce new leaves and each new leaf has in it’s unconscious consciousness the memory of when they (their genetic self) experienced a member from the Kingdom amoung us.

Thus each new leaf has it’s own mind/spirit that still exists after death, and if not taken/saved by the Kingdom of God for a future lesson step simply continues whatever program developed while in a physical body but lacking a physical manifestation seeks to find living humans to act through.

Thus a huge part of the overcoming is to kick out all the dead human spirits that wish to take us over and this is called “washing one’s robe”, “sweeping one’s house clean”. Upon completion of sufficient house cleaning by the standards of the Father and Son, such an overcomer, (the real meaning of an Israeli), is harvested which entails loss of the vehicle they were brought back to take over as in rev 14 – the sickle is illustrated.

1Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. (I rarely quote Paul as much of what he said, though has some relevance, doesn’t do justice to all Jesus said. Jesus in essence said the same thing which is where Paul got it from, though apparantly through someone who heard Jesus, like Peter, as Jesus says after being born again of flesh you would be born of spirit, not he didn’t say “again” in reference to Spirit and the world pneuma is also Soul as there is a difference. All humans have spirit. But only a relatively small amount are given “souls”, depicted as “seeds” of wheat as opposed to tares, the look alike wheat sown by the enemy, the Luciferian Space alien (fallen angel originals and their human slaves they propogated and who have infested the Earth at this time neccessiting the upcoming recylcing that is underway and depicted by the 7 angels with vials in revelations that come after the two witnesses prophesing).

Now this overcoming isn’t actually possible until the Soul that was Jesus returns as part of overcoming, a huge part also, is learning how to give our all to the Kingdom of God, according to the direction from the Soul who is serving as our “midwife” to our soul birth.
This requires hands on, one on one interaction and will always be seen as a dangerous cult by all who have become entrenched in religions (though those religions are for many the best they can do to feel like they can relate to God) because He will come as a “son of man”, thus once again as Moses also indicated of Jesus return from the cloudiness, from the literal heaven’s.

This is why we must examine every “son of man” that is a potential, having indicators of being Him who as you know I have yet to find anyone that offers any scriptual evidence Do of Ti and Do have not fulfilled.

Just because we don’t agree with the method and timing of their exit of their overcome flesh body and the new tongue/language they speak and the way in which they fulfill the revelations doesn’t mean they are not the real deal.