How the Luciferians foster Soul suicide

On the website called askville, I posted a question: “Could the Second Coming of Jesus have been fulfilled by the Heaven’s Gate Cult’s Ti and Do as the Father and Son?” (though I may not have quoted my own question accurately here). This person whose response I responded to below reported me to the askville managers saying she thought one of my responses was using humor and though she didn’t believe in Ti and Do thought spreading humor about them was inappropriate. Another entered a complaint against me saying I was trolling and askville deleted my post saying it was “off topic” but perhaps that was because I at first listed it as entertainment I guess. So I reposted the question after explaining to the askville people I mistakenly posted it to the wrong category, as they do have a religion/spirituality category. Then another who had read my first question threatened to have that post deleted as well and I don’t know if it was, but if so not before posting to this person a rebuttle to her accusations and to another a long disortation I have yet to post here on scriptures related to Jesus projections of his return. Anyway, I just thought this might be interesting to anyone who begins to talk about Ti and Do to the public as it’s common that Christians especially, even new age leaning Christians or spiritual enthusiasts talk so authoritatively about things they know next to nothing about, a sure sign of Luciferian tampering. I’m hoping my response here will yield some further data to face people with their erroneous claims. Most are easy to to “cut down” as most, even if they have read/heard some of the Ti and Do information did so with a prejudgement and fear with a Luciferian discarnate holding their ears and/or avoiding hearing the facts to better formulate a judgement against so they don’t have any facts to back up their condemnations. I haven’t heard from this woman since, so either she didnt’ get it or is afraid to read it or has delayed a response or some other reason to include possably actually “hearing” the truth has opened a otherwise shut door.

So here is my response to her response to me:

First off, as you are very quick to judgement and trust a great deal in your ability to discern truth from fantasy and talk with certainty about things I know you know little about, because of having had 19 years with Ti and Do and the most of the 38 who laid down their lives in 1997, I want you to know, I don’t find fault in your doing so, trusting yourself as you appear to do. It’s what you have come to do to survive and by survival I am not speaking of your physical vehicle. Those who are given a soul, which is not everyone, don’t know why but are faced with a bigger test and they generally don’t fit into much in the world very well, though they may convince themselves they have and they may have degrees of success. Everyone is different of course. But to survive mentally which is very important to some, one does tend to guard by going on the offense as to the things they see as threatening. If you don’t sense or know that there is a great deal more to life than what meets the eye and that goes for every story or perspective or concept we come accoss, then we are either afraid to look at everything with consideration as to what truth lies within, for fear that we will have to change and in so doing will not have the comfort level of friends and family and even the way in which we think of self. I’d bet I would be in nearly the same place had I not had a once in a millenium experience and by experience I’m not talking about book reading experience. I’m talking experience from many angles, even from one of failure and another of redemption, yet with no certainty or assumptions to fall back on. Contrary to common Christian thought, we have to EARN any wings we might get. EARNing them starts with basic belief in what’s offerred. But belief without service/works is dead. We need to tell others what we believe to activate belief into experience and the knowledge that comes from doing. Much of what we learn is what doesn’t work in thought and deed. The entire Human Kingdom was not actually designed to work. It was designed as an evolutionary stepping stone, something to outgrow entirely.

Before I carry on about that, I’ll address what you wrote:

In that comment you said, “But I wasn’t wrong about the assessment of the group’s teachings, especially 14 years after their death. It was a group hypnosis concluding in group suicide — the only input from ‘the mind’ and the voice of reason was — they had to do it before the Hale Bopp comet passed or else be passed by”

I don’t dispute what you said except for a huge key. It was not hyponsis in the way in which that word is generally used. We never had any trance dances. Meditations were optional, used as tools for self control. We were given the goal up front and were periodicially required to consider if we wanted to continue. Some were paid $1000 to leave because they became comfortable with very comfortable living arrangments…mansions, no worries, great food and cleanliness and friendships. But it was all about “washing our robes” as it says in scripture is a big part of the overcoming process that is required to be accepted in the Kingdom of Heaven/God, but what Ti and Do more modernly and thus more accurately referred to as the Physical Evolutionary Level Above Human, just as real and as big a gap as between the human and animal and between the animal and plant and between the plant and mineral kingdom levels. They spoke mostly in generic terminology because religio-spiritual terms had become saccrine and largely distorted. However, they always said the red letters, what Jesus was quoted to have said, were in tact and reliable to refer to, yet in 19 years we seldom had any Bible lessons. Actually Rev. 12 was the only one I could say and that was given to us by Do alone while they always spoke to us as a team except for that. Do told us that Ti was portrayed in rev 12 as the woman. He had already realized that she was his elder, not because she told him so, but because he saw it as they lived togther completely plutonically for the first couple years on the road together after they left Houston with their family and friends angry with them.

I don’t know what you picture when you say group hypnosis but as I was raised a Catholic, I’d say that ‘s group hynosis and we had none of that, and of course Catholic isn’t alone. In fact most religious cerimonies I’ve been to seem geared to hypnotize people into a state of elation, bliss, peace, love which I can’t fault anyone for wanting but it’s not the way of the Kingdom of God for humans to foster such and claim that in doing so they are pleasing or worshiping God. Ti and Do said the term “worship” actually meant more “work for” which is still very evident in scripture yet very ignored by many born again so called assumptive “Christians” who know it or not in all practical ways are actually anti-Jesus in their belief and actions. For instance Jesus was for personal secret prayer to one’s Heavenly FAther so why all this emphasis on public prayer. It does no good as our Heavenly Father wants to hear from us about us and about the relationship we want with our Heavenly FAther. I’m not saying Jesus gave any indication there is anythign wrong with asking our Heavenly FAther to help another but that’s still a private affair. And to have stock prayers and psalms is also against Jesus teachings. All this much talking is also against Jesus as well as the lavish celebrations and costumes and putting humans on pedestals and this applies to all religions. Ti and Do took us to church a few times and they were always very respectful and Do especially enjoyed the reverence that a big cathedral stimulated in his consciousness. I know he was depicted as an evil man but they are all very, very wrong. Those students came to love him with all their heart and yet he never ever took advantage of that and I can prove that because there were many drop outs that could attest to zero abuse in any way, mentally or physically, as opposed to ALL the other groups that were filled with very questionable behaviors.

One thing that seperates the Heaven’s Gate group from all the rest is that “children were not allowed” and by the way Jesus did not permit children to follow him either. It was not a human family affair. All were 100% celebate and seeking to be gender neutral and race neutral and class neutral.

For the beginning of the group in 1975 most of the members who joined and stayed knew that giving their all included being willing to give their physical life but for a while Ti and Do thought a spacecraft would pick us up with our physical bodies and then our soul would be transferred to a new body issue. They also wondered if students would be killed by those who were filled with hate against us, which did exist but mostly coming from the family of the physical vehicles we each occupied but Ti and Do seemed to have an uncanny ability to hide which I can tell lots of stories about.

You are very mistaken regarding any “lack of reason” among Ti and Do. In fact, They were so very practical and common sensical and thus resonable about every day to day activity though made no bones about the strict requirments to be considered to be a member of a Next Level as they called it, crew. They spoke of our task as an astronaut training program to be on board a spacecraft in outer space operating in huge laboratories in any number of departments of our choice as apprentises. But my experience with them in fixing cars, renting/leasing large homes, finding jobs, renting trucks to frequenlty move our operation, experimenting with various nutritionaly programs to help us feel as healthy and energetic as we could were all so well thought out and reseached they can not be compared with anyone else. You know there is video of Jim Jones ordering people to drink their poison while children and their parents were weeping and some had guns pointed at their heads being threatened and some were hunted down when they fled into the woods. How that can be compared with any one moment in my 19 years with Ti and Do is only explainable in one sense. They were so real and genuine and non manipulative and non-deceitful and beyond just having good intentions and yet chose which students to keep and which ones didn’t seem to be happy with them so sent them back into their worldly lives that is part of the many proves that these two could not be compared with anyone else and I’ve looked at all of them I could find to study because of how they are lumped in with all these Luciferain facsimili’s. Nor was I naive when I joined. When I was 19 I was preparing to move to canada to escape the draft to vietnam but got a high lottery number so didn’t have to, but then moved to canada wilderness with my girlfriend anyway but was deported to washington state where I lived with jesus freaks for a while, and didn’t believe as they did though I always admired Jesus but only studied his words and knew I didn’t understand hardly any of it. Then for 5 years I tried every group that was around northern oregon in the early 1970’s and none of them floated my boat but I wanted to become enlightened whatever that meant.

I don’t know who told you that they had this ultimatum with the Hale Bopp comet as Do never spoke of the comet that way. To him it was simply a token that the task was over. Two weeks before their long and carefully planned self administered exit of their physical body, what people called suicide, though really doesn’t fit in actual defintion as they were not really escaping anythign or doing so to get back at someone or because of feeling they’d failed something or in protest. It was done in the public way on purpose to make an impression. They knew 99.9% of the people would see it the way they saw it to date but their interest were in the tiny few .1 percent if that many who had their soul impants (a long story but not comparable at all to space alien implants. Space aliens are fallen angels).

You said, “To answer your question seriously, people generally do not accept the teachings of Ti and Do because there is no REASON to believe what they espouse. Believing Heaven’s Gate literature is on par with believing in Superman (a fictional, copyrighted character), — or believing that the movie ‘Santa Claus Conquers The Martians’ is a true story, and basing evidence on the fact that it’s caught on film (the movie) — and then asking people to disprove its reality with evidence.”

This is strictly your opinion but that doesn’t make it so. I know people that do believe in Ti and Do and I do. There is reason but certainly not for everyone which is fine but to assume you can see it for the illusion you have been told it is and/or believe it to be is simply unaware of just how real it could be. It’s on par with those that believe in God, or better stated, Beings that are responsibe for the development and orchestration of our entire reality. To those that choose to not consider this, they often say, humans who believe are a genetic mutation or are blind sheeple following a myth kin to your examples. And you know what’s so ironic about what you said. I can take each of your examples and put facts to them, though of course they won’t be facts to anyone who won’t open up to how they might be facts. Everything on this planet, every element, every system, every idea, every invention was thought of before earth or the solar system or perhaps even the milky way galaxy existed. There is nothing new here. Humans are stictly time share computers and the discarnates (dead humans) seek to share time in our brains and desire to have us act in the ways they enjoyed while living. Of course if one refuses to consider that a spirit world exists then they will never see the evidence of it, however circumstantial. Our brains need to be primed with new information to be able to receive it for ourselves. That’s what the secret video’s are really all about. It’s a type of voodoo to get stuff by engagign the spirit world to help us and priming our brain to look for the ways the spirits might link us to ways to get what we say we want. And yes it works but it also keeps us glued to human thinking and ways as be become anestisized by things and entertainments and self that includes our families and pursuits that can even look really good but end up neglecting the primary fact that NOTHING on Earth came from humans so to ignore the people that gave us the gift of having life to begin with is like a child growing up with loving parents that they treat as non-existant while taking advangage of all they have been provided.

In one sense you are right, though, my question can’t be disproved, but that’s because it is genuinely what I asked about and I have 100’s of databits as evidence. I wanted to see what others would come up with and I knew it would be an avenue to share my experience. From there it’s up to each individual. I’m not needed at all. Now I have demonstrated what I would say, let’s say if someone had posted the same question but instead of directing it around the Heaven’s Gate Group it was suggesting the association with Jesus of Jim Jones or David Koresh or Rael or Manson or Sun Yung Moon or any of the hundreds of those who claimed to be Jesus or his prophet. (Elizabeth Clair Prophet). I could go right to this or that scripture and with even two or three examples to prove my point, show evidence that they are not fulfilling any prophecy or the more important ways Jesus demonstrated and taught. For instance, Jim Jones accepted families, and children as part of his group. Jesus had no wife or children and his disciples had to leave behind their families and I could list the scripture. (In fact if you want to see such look at my recent response to the fellow who quoted the way jesus was supposed to come, to see). I could go down a list of say 20 points off the top of my head. Now naturally I am using the Bible as my main source of information to use to discern by but that’s where Jesus is quoted so that’s the criteria I am wanting to compare against.

You said,

“We know that Heaven’s Gate was quite a typical pattern of many cults and they can’t all be right, can they? We’ve seen it all before and it’s quite common and predictable.

We know that Heaven’s Gate used COMMON brainwashing techniques (similar to the “Moonies”) plus common stage hypnosis / mesmerism to achieve its ends, which was death by suicide.”

You are absolutely correct. Only one can be the real deal so what’s the evidence that it isn’t. All one has to do is make a chart. Jesus said this, Ti and Do said that. Jesus did this, Ti and Do did that. Jesus gave this prophecy, Ti and Do fullfilled or didn’t fulfill that. If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, so on..then it’s a duck!

Where did you get this idea that there was “stage hypnosis”? Is that like putting a pedulum before someone’s eyes and telling them they are sleepy and to act like a dog. There was nothing at all remotely similar to that. To the contrary that would have been seen as abusive manipulation. Look, I was like a sergant to Do for years. I knew things many in the group didn’t know. I was in his inside circle though that’s not what it sounds like exactly but I have to move along here. Were you a moonie or did you watch a video on them. I attended moonie meetings. We had none of that. Never sold anything on the street corners. WE had zero recruitment from 1976 to 1994 with a few returnees in 1993. In the first few months after stopping public meetings in 1976 Ti decided 19 of the group of then about 96 members weren’t ready for what it would take so told us who remained that we made the first cut. Those 19 were sent to a different campground than the rest of us and eventually were suggested to go back into the world. As it happened 3 of those ended up finding us in Amarillo Texas, and rejoining. Which cult refused membership. Sure exclusive clubs refuse members but not for the same reasons but not cults. Cults are like religions. The more the merrier as they tithe and make it look popular.

You said,

“What we DO know is that Heaven’s Gate used teachings that had absolutely NO DEPTH to them — it was as shallow (seriously and respectfully) as a supermarket tabloid — one of those papers that shows some mom’s newborn baby with horns and a pitchfork who plays in fiery coals.”

Now who is being sarcastic and humorous. Maybe you should report yourself? Maybe you should get a hold of the USA Today 1/3 page infomational ad Do, those in the group paid $30,000.00 for in 1991 (that by the way no one ended up joining from as it was simply a trial to get the word out again). We had that kind of money because half of us had worked our way up into high tech jobs in the world. I beleive the date was May 27th 1991. I may have posted it on my blog. Better yet, you can hear Ti and Do talking as they did to their students in the early 1980’s. I’ve posted some of their tapes on my youtube channel: 3spm.

you said,

“YOU are not under the mental slavery and mind control of Ti and Do, therefore you could not possibly be a follower. You write very well and that reflects that you are above average intellectually. But an intelligent person like you WOULD NOT believe Heaven;’s Gate teachings unless they were a victim of mind control or group hypnosis. Therefore your question appears to be trolling or a sick joke.

If you want to discuss Heaven’s gate, do it from a psychological perspective. Don’t pretend to believe it.”

Well, it’s not trolling and it’s not a sick joke and as I’ve stated I do believe in Ti and Do, though they are physically gone so there are no “followers” so no concern for a new group starting up to mesmerize anyone. I am actually the biggest living example of genine first hand experience in the group but that does not add to my stature as it’s how I act and seek to improve and be of continued service to them that adds to what I might accomplish in the future which has zero value to the human kingdom. I’m not pretending to believe it. What I’m pretending seems to be, that there is anyone out there who isn’t jaded against something they have no understanding of but think they are an authority on. The arrogance in this world is evidence as to why the Kingdom of God will have to recycle. The plants have all become weeds who devour everythign in their path with no regard for the value of anything else in the garden. It’s not their fault exactly but those weeds do interfer with those plants that want to grow into something of value so it’s recycle time shortly.

For whatever it’s worth, I do have continuous communications from Ti and/or Do and/or certain students via dreams that began in 1998. They have also showed me outside of dreams the reality of discarnate spririts. In other words sometimes I can see them. I don’t want to see them but don’t care if I do. They don’t freighten me. Ti opened my eyes to see them, I believe so I could talk from experience though I know most think that’s an illusion as well.

And I noticed you had asked for prayers at one point. I do hope you get help with whatever it is you sought prayer for. I believe my current vehicle would be gone had I not asked Ti and Do for help. I know they can hear anyone’s requests to them. I don’t know their criteria for helping someone as many of us need difficult tests to shake us from our comfort levels. That’s why there have been big increases in natural disasters but note some who said asked God to help them, got it. There is a difference though, that is what the Kingdom of God might do for someone that doesn’t know better versus someone who has been given to know more.

Believe it or not, your choice, but you have been given a great deal at this time. But you will have to try to receive it, at least a little to show Ti and Do you have some of their Mind still alive within you. If they see you put out some effort in that regard and I have no idea how much they might help you. This may make you laugh or think I am trying to be sarcastic or some other negative, but I assure you I have no desire for anyone to suffer and I know Ti and Do can help with any problem. The big question is whether you will let them help you or not.

I guarantee they are nothing like anything you have thought or heard/read expressed that made them out to be negative or evil in any way.

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