Q & A – Is Sawyer thinking about starting a new [Heaven’s Gate] group

The following is my response to questions below having to do with whether or not I am thinking about starting another group.  I’m posting some of these remotely as my time is limited so I just forward it to the blog:

There can’t be another equivilent group unless the Next Level decides. I trust that Do at departure time knew that there was no such plans in the cards because they had the fruit of their labors and the next steps would become evident for all those who after their exit of their physical bodies believed in who they said they were. These garden experiments are very well planned while nothing is set in stone except that new applicants in any future programs need to make their desires clear by asking to be included and then expecting to be shown some steps they can take. However, that asking must be directed in the literal names Ti and Do as this way they are getting communication from those they know have accepted the seeds they planted.

But theorectically let’s say I had a dream that I saw/felt/experienced in the same way as the dozen or so dreams I have had with Do, with Ti, with 5-6 students at different times and it told me to try to organize such a group.

Well, then I would begin to ask to be shown how to proceed. And I would then watch for potential answers as that’s the way of the Next Level. They don’t come to anyone and lay out the whole enchilada of a plan because to them, each step is based on the response. Humans were created to decide for themselves what they wanted to believe about who they are, where they have come from and what might be their future. They can seperate those that they did not seed or did not take to the seed in such a way that there was any germination happening and those that are willing to germinate that seed by taking steps towards them.

What some are doing now, however they think about it is in a sense bringing their consideration of who these two were/are into closer focus, by asking questions, to which each are faced with seeking more or not, which is not absolute until each of us physically dies. In other words until then, which none of us know won’t be tomorrow, we can still seek more of who/what they said which is the content of their MIND and thus the receipt of as a potential catalyst to expand one’s own pocket(soul).

So I would have to keep on their straight and narrow band/wavelength by having them in mind while I ask and then like I said, going with instead of hampering or hindering the steps that will make themselves apparant as I go about life with this thirst/draw of what they would have me do.

This is a safeguard as the Luciferian type human and equivilent Space Aliens will not be allowed to operate against us – new believers or not, to a degree that could jeopardize our growth but we must ask for help with every hurdle. A hurdle could be seeing something about Ti and Do that troubles us. To jump any hurdle, it has to be faced and one does have to take the position that not understanding the Next Level’s perspective doesn’t mean the Next Level is doing something wrong. It simply means there is a hurdle to cross and one must be open to the timing of crossing that hurdle, while looking at the intended goal of wanting to keep their Next Level connection vibrant as to be jumped when the Next Level wants to reward us with the answer that we would have grown to receive, often enhanced by time of seeking.

And the Next Level would never indicate your doing anything that would harm anyone or ourselves physically or mentally though of course one could say that living is harmful to extended or eternal life as the Next Level will give each of us the most appropriate steps to take in our own growth and we are each an individual in that trek.

This is all a development of our “feeler” Ti and Do called it early on, a type of radar, call it an informed intuition and is associated with the Solar Plexus and associated glands of the human body but always remains our choice to receive and apply.

So if circumstances presented themselves for such a group, then if it felt good to go with it, I would take steps in that direction, seek how it feels and again watch the results and when I felt I was at a readiness for a next step, ask again.

If anyone ever feels like it’s just too much to hold onto as real so feels threatened, it’s because one has an advasary the Next Level is monitoring trying to influence us to throw in the towel and one might divert their attention to life activities that don’t keep that kind of challenging stimulus on the front of one’s mind. In other words take a break from study of Ti and Do material, even if it’s just hours. We can also ask the Next Level to give us a breather from the negativity that will bombard us as we accept more and more of what Ti and Do taught.

In other words this is all a process and one can only do things stepwise while willing to take the steps life is indicating and often that comes to others rather than to ourselves directly. I have many examples of this, way. I hope I haven’t been too out of focus in all this but Ti and Do called their task a process of seekign their Older Members’s mind and then implimenting it and often learning what NOT to pursue.

Luciferians can be imposters to us in our dreams,thus the reason we need a check and balance system.

In a sense such a group has been started as there are a core of 4 or 5 new believers I’m regularily in contact with and then others I know believe in Ti and Do but are not regularily communicating with me. However I don’t see how that needs to be organized further. If some organization evolves then I’ll seek Ti and Do’s mind as what if any participation I might have in it but in case it’s not clear:

I AM NOT OLDER MEMBER CAPABLE AT THIS TIME. In other words Do would not tell me I am to be an Older Member for new believer students. I can become one’s “check partner” which takes place if someone asks my advise.

So far I have resisted invitations to greater organization and also to the idea that I personally am filling an Older Members shoes though as Do indicated it is certainly advantageous to seek any active student for next level styled relationship, to learn what they experienced with Ti and Do. They will get their turn to be in those types of shoes.

From: Ryan
To: Sawyer heavensgate
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2011 5:32 AM
Subject: Re: Wondering about heavens gate?

Ya edit out my name man , but what about the starting up of the group again? Any thoughts of seeing that happen?

Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry

22 Responses to “Q & A – Is Sawyer thinking about starting a new [Heaven’s Gate] group”

  1. marshall applewhite Says:

    sawyer is in league with satan

  2. Jon Gilyard Says:

    Sawyer, the reason we new believers might look to you, before we would say, Carlan or Mark or Rio is the same thing i said before on youtube, when in beyond human, Do mentions the possibility of the class being older members to younger ones, he might be talking about the class as a whole, yes, but the camera was squarely on you and June, hence the reason for misunderstanding\the focus on you as an individual-Jon

    • sawyer Says:

      I understand and I am willing to give you all I can give according to what Ti and Do would have me do but I doubt that will ever be a situation where I am in some type of acting Older Member task. I am simply far too young. I would probably crumble under the weight of the influences that would regularily attack me in this vehicle. I’m serious. I’ve had a female partner for the last 17 years, who I had a daughter with and she just instigated an official break up with me, and did so in quite the peculiar fashion that to me felt like she, my stepdaugther (as she had a daughter I met when she was 4 years old who I helped raise) and my daughter who is 15 rejected me (though my daughter really wasn’t conscious of that aspect). And I crumbled and still a month later have to shoo off all the influences that try to stir up anger and jealously as I actually opened the door for this woman to have her lover live with us in the same house, which was very hard and still is hard but I was not going to leave because I feel this is where I am meant to be at this time to continue with my writing tasks but although it hurt to disattach from this woman, even though we were hardly sexual over the last few years and the fact is that it is because of my beliefs and attention to matters having to do with Ti and Do that our relationship crumbled, it serves my currrent tasks for Ti and Do well as before this occurred I was under constant critisism of the time I took to do what I’m doing now and to write the books I am nearing publishing. So I’m glad but I am still not very strong, though under the circumstances may be doing okay in Ti and Do’s mind. I don’t really know, but what I have learned over the last 19 years outside Ti and Do’s classroom is that I was a fool to think I could handle such an Older Member task. What we don’t know about them is how many and how strong are the discarnates and space alien attacks on them, every minute of every day multiplied by each students discarnate influences times all the human relations of the students who hate them. It’s like having someone having a bullhorn in your ear 24/7 shouting every negative emotion and thought in the book about you. AS it is I feel influences that hate me, as I’ve been all over the national media for many years now, though periodically, but few identify me in public, though I do get looks now and again when a documentary my vehicle is in replays. But those kinds of thoughts are weak. The ones from loved ones of one’s students I’d bet can be difficult but still it’s the fact that the lower forces will definitialy be mounting their campaign against any who are being of service to the Next Level that see to it that people around us, even if they don’t know why, steer clear. That often occurs but after the fact. For instance I’m a musician and I am fairly good at what I do and can sit in with just about anybody and add significant licks on flute, harmonica and percussion and to some degree saxaphone and oftentimes I will get an invite but then will either flub the gig in some way or it will fall apart in some other way because the influences don’t want anyone to like me or what I do so much so that I’d become an influece on their beliefs that will be pointing out their existence and agenda and methods. Plus the Next Level I don’t think would give you someone they wouldnt’ stand behind who could demonstrate their strong held bond. Perhpas I am moving towards that bond well, but it never seems to me I’m doing all that well given all I’ve received, though I’m not the judge of myself in that regard, so I just have to take my continued service to Ti and Do step by step. I am willing to lose my life at someone’s hand should it come to that, but I’m not looking to set that up somehow. Now if Do came to me in a dream the way he has a few times in the past and gave me an instruction to exercise a differnt task, I would have to seek out his intention by trying to put something into motion, something I could reverse in case I got it wrong. If he came to me in a spacecraft I would hope I would be willing to do whatever he assigned me to do. I do feel I would recognize him, as it would not necessarily be out of the question that a space alien could try to mimic Do to me, though I do feel that has been attempted with me in one dream. My being on the camera may have been in the plan by Ti who was at the time outside her vehicle and could see where I was not keeping up with the lesson plan as well as I needed to stay the course. The Next Level always takes what is a negative and makes it into a positive. Thus my being told via dream that Do can “use me” I do feel is verification that I have a task to perform and I have some ideas about that but as I get closer to what they might want me to do, that is if it’s more than this writing, I’ll see what the next steps are and hopefully I’ll be ready to do the best job I can for them. Except for my daughter who may not need me very much longer, I have no reason to be here. I’m not depressed but it can be depressing to be in the world yet feel nothing in common anymore with anyone else, left to try to reveal things most don’t care about. But then there are those like you whose numbers are increasing and that is exciting.

  3. Angry Human Says:


  4. TMMODY Says:

    All comets have 2 tails, sawyer…. Got it? ALL comets. It is all scientific and stuff. Funny, huh.

    • sawyer Says:

      I read that recently as well about the two tails but with hale bopp there were three tails and there was also a companion with pan starr s I saw the photos of and the photo from the Japanese astronomers that showed the same companion object that didn’t have the signature of a star and now we see comet ison that appears to be off the charts with irregularities, like hale bopp was as well but isn’t spoken of though they did include some in wikapedia recently, while 99% of the populous has already decided to buy the same old story – just ice and rock a “hale stone”.

      • baldtim Says:

        Christ — the biblical fictional one — didn’t find it necessary to hack off his weiner parts. Yet, Do… who had gotten in trouble before for dingle-dangle-dingling with male students when he was a music prof… felt the need to hack off his weiner-like bits (I presume he had his testicles removed … did lvvody do that?).

        So if this was all a “test”… wouldn’t removing your testicles be cheating? What sort of “overcoming” is that?

        I almost hate asking that because then I’m feeding your belief… but one way for you to see the lunacy is to see the inconsistencies.

        You have to get out of the context that your mind is in if you want to look beyond the mythology. But why would you want to do that? It is hard to be outside of all that muck because it is so much easier to believe… but to face the objective stark realities… that is hard. But it is the truth. If you find more truth, let me know — but if someone tells you that Thor was a giant bug from the planet Pluto… run.

        Did they teach you math that is beyond us? Did they even teach you diff equations and integrals which any college pimple faced kid learns about? I learned that crap, too.

        Instead, they taught you how to measure a teaspoon of salt in the neutra-lab. Red flags anyone?

        Isn’t it easier to believe than to NOT believe? To not believe would mean facing reality. So, you continue believing absolute crap.

        The behavior of the ex members should be a flag, too…. They are bickering and money-cunting like “PLANTS”..

        Have you ever been to Iowa City, IOWA?

      • sawyer Says:

        re: your question on whether or not castration was cheating the overcoming process: This is why Do considered it for himself publically, speaking to the “classroom” in 1989 first. At that time he said, he had a nocturnal emission that he wasn’t aware of stimulating. He reported this to males only. Then he proceeded to describe the procedure he was considering for himself as he had been researching with lvvody because she was a registered nurse and assisted him with the care of Ti for the years after her eye removal until she left her vehicle – burning it out, aka cancer that apparently started in her eye – an interesting fact. Maybe you could do some research for me on incidents of cancer of the eye, as I believe the particles that stimulate cancer have to enter the body of course and they generally affect the organs they land in first, often through fluid intake, food, water, air and I guess “light”. I bring this up because Do said, something to the affect of (paraphrased): “Ti burned out her vehicle, because of the mind she brought through it”. It’s just now that I feel a potential understanding of that relative to the fact that Mind as data, like in computer systems travels on a carrier frequency and it’s all within the “light” spectrum of course, which is why every element has it’s electromagnetic “light” (color) fingerprint in relationship to it’s atomic configuration. Correct me if I’m wrong on that. But if one was receiving and delivering a certain potency on the spectrum that especially taxed the human brain sensory systems, walla, cell mutation, thus cancer. I would guess it could be like spending hours on a computer before they had the shielding of some of the light spectrum to where one would get literally sick to their stomach. I experienced that in the 1980’s when in my first job that had me in front of a computer all day, on a televideo 802h withone of those amber screens, I was nauseous for the better part of my first three work days. I suppose I was getting a dosage of electromagnetic radiation and maybe that’s why I had a lymphoma grow on the back of my neck at that time in Texas in 1985. It’s like one day this big mass the size of a half abaseball grew. This is actually the first time I’ve considered that connection. But back to the topic, a lot transpired from that meeting even seeming to be related to hvvody’s leaving as in a subsequent meeting a group of 12 of us were called to Do’s quarters as this all happened after Ti had left and in that meeting he expressed he was considering the castration option for anyone in the class that wanted it, even women, though soon ruled out women because he felt it was too invasive a technique and that the male seems to even have in it’s design that option with little room for complications. Anyway, Do asked if anyone had any reservations in considering this and hvvody was in tears because he did have reservations and after that meeting was considering leaving, not because Do wanted him to leave – that wasn’t in the picture at all. It wasn’t a “agree” or get out kind of thing, though admittedly if one is “giving their all” as jesus and Moses taught was the number one qualification to work up to, to be given a seat on the spacecraft in Ti’s crew, then to not be willing to consider it, giving one’s will to one’s incarnate Older Member we believed (to degrees) him/them to be, is saying they were not willing to take whatever step. It was also like that for the exit by laying down their bodies to their physical death. This is all very tricky to pull off because no human vehicle wants to die or give their body parts up, unless they are miserable and none of us in the class were miserable. We in fact had it quite good for all those years. This is why the next level older members don’t really know ahead of time exactly what they are going to get instructions to bring to the students as it depends on the students, so it can look very manipulative but there is absolutely no reason at all for a genuine member of the next level incarnate or not to be manipulative because they have absolutely no need for anyone or anything in the human kingdom but of course humans seeing Do simply think he was insane or so distraught over his homosexuality or whatever they come up with to justify labeling him psychotic or whateversuch label,and of course it’s insane to ahuman that’s not been nurtured out of the human kingdom so that it’s in their genes. For instance isn’t it insane to be willing to die for another, as in war or as in a fireperson. Isn’t it insane from a strictly survivalist animal view to put another’s life ahead of one’s own. What’s the motivation for that? How can one that believes in survival of the fittest models justify that behavior?Also killing another human. Why isn’t that permissible ifthere is something to be gained in doing so. I ‘m not suggesting that because I dance to the Next Level’s drums more than to any humans drums and that drum beat of putting self last and not interfering with another human by cancelling their life for any reason is natural for me, while for some it’s not natural because they were raised on a different branch of the human gnome that didn’t have that experience, which is why jesus forgave them, “for they know not what they do”, another weird non-human idea – forgiveness. But Doput off all talk of the castration option and most of it was done privately with those thattold him and tried to convince him they wanted the option if he got instructionto provide it. I know this because I was one who wanted the option, though looking back can see thatmy head was in the wrong place about it and that’s why when the option did present itself year or two later while I pressedDo for it, I am sure that Ti fromher out of the body overview saw toit that I was not going to be the first to be operated on andsaw to it that lvvody didn’t do quite the job she knew how to do, so there was some swelling that resulted in ourtaking srrody to the hospital to easilyfix but the reason Do felt like he had failed by letting us go through with itand wasn’t going to let me go ahead with being number two. Howeverone reason it took years to cometo the place of allowing some students to go ahead and for him to feel right about not going first was because like you said, Do did not want to reduce the test ofwarding off that sensuality because in that process one built their “mind muscle” as Ti called it. He talked aboutthis publically and privately with me and with meand srrody and prkody, whowere three males most expressive consistently with wanting the option, though prkody ceased that press onDo after a while and ended up leaving theclassroom around that time. but then Do regrouped his thoughts about it after I left having given into sensuality (masturbation) repeatedly, and decided to allow students to do it but theyhad to leave the class for a timeto go to where the procedure could be done which they researched again and they hadto get jobs in that area to pay for it. This way how can anyone legitimately say they, the students weren’t acting on their own free will.But of course some will never see it that way just like they will never see a lot of things that can easily be explained away by ignoring or just saying it’s not concrete enough evidence (for them). So at the point that Do did allow students to chose that option, he felt like Ti had given him the okay that these were on solid enough footing in their overcoming that they could do what to a human is again considered insane, but they will allow if one wants to continue to be sexual, like to get a sex change operation. The Lucifierians simply want to keep humans under the mammalian spell or make giving up one’s sexuality a spiritual elevation, another trap to the human condition as one will think they have reached the precipice of human evolution by not giving away their seed, while then feeling they have become self aware, self realized and ascended in mindset over humans, when they had really only addicted themselves to their self grandisement with religious/spiritual illusion of self importance, so when the Older Member comes plain and ordinary with out all the airs of spirutal height, they will not think they are at all above them because they are already enlightened to master. And buy the way, Jesus said that making oneself a eunuch for the kingdom of heaven’s sake was an option and to become a eunuch did involve castration though Jesus listed how some are born eunuchs and some are made eunuch’s by men, different categories from those who “make themselves eunuchs”.


      • TMMODY Says:

        Eye cancer is brutal and dangerous – nowadays they take the eyes right away when cancer is diagnosed there. I knew a kid who had his eyes removed at 18 months, Jalen Howsare was his name. From what I see, it is mostly genetic.
        When Do said: “Ti burned out her vehicle, because of the mind she brought through it” – I think he was being figurative – not literal… because to be literal wouldn’t Ti’s brain, other eye, tongue, mouth, facial skin, etc. have to have been the focus of the cancer? If her mind (that is, brain) was the cause, then the cancer would be focused in the head area. It sounds like the eye cancer (which is an extremely quick cancer) spread to the liver and she was gone.
        There are cancers caused by radiation (skin cancer)… but they don’t believe radiation is a significant cause of eye cancer.
        I know of people who’ve gotten dizzy from computer monitors. I’ve been in front of many different kinds for long periods of time and haven’t experienced that.
        As far as Do not forcing people to do it… I suppose that is true, but if Do had the blueberry cheesecake, then so would everyone else… if Do got his hair cut short so did others… Do probably knew that by telling folks that he was going to do it, it would have influence. Which is probably why he was so reluctant to allow others to do it.
        I don’t believe Do or Ti were psychotic. Do had delusions (of grandeur to say the least). Ti may have seen in him during his breakdown the opportunity to quit her job and have a halfway interesting life… although she must have suspended her disbelief a bit. Did she cut all ties to her family during the classroom time? I mean, wearing eye makeup and stuff – she had some “this world” in her. Did she drink?
        Dying for someone else is outwardly “altruism” – but like a lot of people I think it is hedonism in the sense that it is easier to die trying to help than live with the pain of knowing you didn’t try. So, altruism is pain avoidance so still a selfish act. Killing people is usually traumatic – so, again it is selfish to NOT kill people to avoid the pain/guilt even if you get other rewards from it.
        A gnome is a tiny person … you may be referring to the genome?
        Were you at the hospital when SRRODY had his problems? What did the nurses and doctors say to you? Anything memorable?

        Really, it seems to me that you were like a band of ascetics or monks – only you had more luxuries (tv’s, computers, restaurants, movies, cars, houses). And you believed that people in spaceships were watching your every move and you couldn’t have sex. Like Buddhist monks, you were focused on the “next world” and thought this world was to be transcended.
        It probably would have been easier if you were monks – that way you wouldn’t have been exposed to all the stimuli that makes being a monk so difficult. It is easier to be a monk on a mountaintop than one in LAS VEGAS.
        If your daughter joined a cult, say Catholicism… would you be sad? She might believe it just as much as you believe HG stuff… is any set of myth any more or less valid than another?
        Marx said that religion is the opiate of the masses… not because it makes people into sheep, but because it alleviates their pain. If HG works for you and makes you happy and eases your pain, then maybe it doesn’t matter—just because all other people think it is ridiculous – all 8 billion people on earth.
        Christians go to heaven, Buddhists become a drop of water in the ocean, Mormons get their own planets, Hindu’s reincarnate, Advaita Vedantens wake up, and you will become Spock. They are all weird.

  5. TMMODY Says:

    Me again. Friend. Brother. Fellow Traveler.

    Have you ever heard of Occam’s Razor?

    All religions are schemes to take advantage of the innate spirituality human beings are born with. Mostly they are used to control people’s behavior. Napoleon thought they prevented the poor from killing the rich. I mean, you need a mechanism to keep the salty hoard under control, right? A lot of times religions are money-making schemes — see Scientology, another UFO cult like yours.

    With Do and Ti’s “religion” — their purpose was more sincere in that I think they may have truly believed the shinola they were selling. So, in a way it is more pure. I find it odd that they had to include biblical crap, but Ti was from the south and they have strong biblical weirdness drilled into them.

    You know where this is going, right: Heaven’s Gate, TELAH, etc. was all stuff just made up. None of it is true at all… it couldn’t possibly be true.

    There are no space aliens hovering over anywhere. If they were, don’t you think we’d have millions of credible videos of them? But we don’t — the stuff that has been vidded is interesting, but can always be explained away as either a military or civilian thing.

    If they did exist, there would be absolutely NO DOUBT that they exist. But there is no evidence at ALL that they exist. Nothing. Not even a signal of any kind from ALL the galaxies we’ve ever searched.

    Friend. The human mind wants answers — it is a survival mechanism. The innate spirituality within us is a survival mechanism. Deja vu and “religious experiences” are also survival mechanisms. They can be triggered via saline probes in the brain as reliably as a light switch in all of us — although there are some anatomical anomalies but that isn’t important.

    Do and Ti were interesting and sincere; and so were the class people… and I bet they were truly happy drinking the pheno and vodka! I envy them to a certain extent for their assuredness. But none of it is true. No matter how much we long for it or train ourselves to believe it, it isn’t true … it was just made up. You can tell from the tapes — at least the few I’ve heard (the blackhawk stuff).

    You and me are misfits. I don’t really fit in and have troubles socially. It ain’t discarnates… the simplest answer is probably close to the truth. I think most people feel like misfits at some point in their lives. And most people cope as they can. But being a misfit isn’t a sign that space aliens and Lucifer are messing with you.

    I’m an atheist — don’t RECOIL!!! Atheism is an outlook based upon knowledge. As far as my beliefs, I am an agnostic. That isn’t inconsistent.

    You are too. You don’t “know” about any of this stuff; but you “believe” it… and in the logical center — all evidence seems to indicate that we aren’t being watched by an all seeing god…

    Remember back to being a kid before you got 20 years of this stuff– the world is full of wonder and we truly don’t know what the heck is going on… and that is beautiful and exciting! We don’t need to create myths.

    Your wife and daughters rejected you because your beliefs are sheer lunacy… how could they possibly cope with that?

    Look at Scientology — millions upon millions believe that and it is even weirder than Heaven’s Gate stuff. But if you look at their liturgy, you’ll see it is the same gunk just a different gunkiness.

    You need to recenter. You are very smart. But, come on.

    But hey… I’ll give u a shot. Send me 1 thing that will convince me of anything you are saying… even just a speck. 1 link. What 1 link to you would be persuasive to a plant like me?

    There should be billions of links if there is even a shadow of truth to any of this. 1 link that will make anyone go: “WOW… I’m persuaded!”.

    Peace to you friend.

    • sawyer Says:

      to say all religions are schemes doesn’t seem to take into account the history of how they came about. Nevertheless I agree but not in a way I suspect you will consider, but I’ll say it anyway. They are the result of the full intention of the ones spoken of in the historic records of the one called Enoch and later Moses, as the “drop outs from the apprenticing task as observers they were assigned”. Of course it’s easy to say, it was made up, just like I can say right now that Kennedy was shot by a bullet that had the power to turn itself around on remote command. Who is going to prove otherwise, so that argument that many, many recovered writings were all fabricated is just a choice to believe and then one can call it, “non belief” another of the many ways in which confusion is becoming the rule on Earth.

      For the record of those that read this, I am not aware of an “ody” that was TMMODY. Those who know where those names came from will understand why I’ve wanted to put that on record, not that it matters that much. It’s just part of what I feel is my job to correct things my experience can prove inaccurate. (And by the way if I needed to prove there was no Tmmody, there are x-classmates that I am in touch with that don’t necessarily believe in Ti and Do who would be my witnesses if I asked them and there are others too. Nuf said on that little bit.

      As far as all the other things you said, I’m restraining myself these days from trying to offer others Ti and Do and students views without direct questions that can not be easily gleaned by investigating the documents they left behind for us, though it’s tempting but I have other needs for my time but much you said in this comment in my opinion is ill informed while stated with what sounds like a certainty. But by the way, I too am an atheist if atheism is about being anti theism when theism is defined as Catholics define the term, with this idea that there is one dude and his son and a bunch of invisible angels. Even when I was 14 and forced to go to catholic religion training, I knew that was a crock, though I couldn’t then explain why.

      That’s one of the MANY things Ti and Do corrected about the religions. That perspective definitely was made up but actually not entirely as one of the game plans that even many humans in intelligence organizations use is to take a fact and put so much crap with it so the fact is also disguised as crap or truth, what’s actually real. In this way I also believe Jesus is a fabrication, but that’s not the Jesus in the 4+ accounts called the “gospels”, the testimonies of witnesses, regardless of who put pen or quill to papyrus, as that Jesus in those records shows zero resemblance to the Christian Jesus and the new age spiritualist Jesus. That should tell an objective historian or researcher that something is up in Denmark as they say. For instance why make up a story (the jesus gospels) that supposedly was used by Neapolitan and others to capture people but then not follow the story line? Why is it that all the religions seem to have this pattern of saying they believe in such and such a person in this history and yet don’t do what he was quoted to have said. It’s the same with Moses. Jews today follow the talmund not the 5 books of moses or enoch’s writings. of course some so follow Moses writing but mostly the things that are for appearance of holiness. With Jesus it’s follow the parables to some degree and ooh and ahh about the so called miricles that Do said were probably 90% exaggerated. (I might have got that percentage wrong). And they ignore or twist and “make up” everything else he said and to date really are Paul disciples. Now the cia couldn’t even pull that off, or could they? It would be like teaching Einstein in a classroom and ignoring what 4 or more eye witnesses said Einstein said but instead studying what someone said that never heard him speak or read any of his teachings and for that matter was instrumental in seeking out those who believed something special about Einstein and having them imprisoned and killed with the approval of one of the group that was responsible for seeing to it that Einstein was killed, because he taught things that went against their doctrine of reality.

      The fact is, no matter what any of us say, “we don’t know what we don’t know” – circular thinking but it works and is always true, but where it leaves the circle is whether or not someone wants to know what they don’t know, which means knowing that there is more to know. That would define a true scientist of the mind and history, etc. to assume there is something more to know and to be willing to be wrong when they find it, even eager to be wrong as it is the process of new discover they are after, not the ego they can wear on their shirtsleeve to criticize others with.

  6. baldtim Says:

    Yo… so I post a thoughtful message and you delete it, but you leave the “Angry Human” comment.

    I think you removed mine because you only leave those that agree with you — or, in the case of “Angry Human”‘s comment those that illustrate your conception of “the enemy”.

    Did you shut out your wife and kids in the same way?

    I’ve lost whatever respect I thought I had for you. You have always been lost and you will die that way.


    • sawyer Says:

      I’m not sure what of yours I deleted. If it was the one that just said, “asshole”, it’s just not worth my time. But you are wrong about deleting people’s comments that don’t agree with me, but you’ll have to look around at the few comments I’ve received to my posts over the last couple years to prove that.

  7. baldtim Says:

    Ahh… No. I was referring to MY previous post. But it did finally get posted… NSA must have needed to sign off on it :)…

  8. baldtim Says:

    In regard to your response.

    There may be historicity in religious texts — but I am telling you : none of the spiritual stuff is true. None of it.

    None of the ti and do stuff is true. I don’t think they lied to you, I think they might have believed it– I mean, Do was one fucked up dude when he met Ti.

    The only true spiritual stuff is inside of you — and that is something you can explore — except that spirituality is a survival mech so don’t bother.

    But all the other stuff that people have told you is just made up — they may have believed it but it doesn’t change the fact that it was made up. Do a test… write a 20 digit number on a piece of paper then ask Do to somehow get a written message to you with that 20 digit number on it. It’ll never happen.

    You’ve spent so much time in the cult that even when addressing my note, you instantly go back into the mythology of it.

    Doesn’t HG seem even weirder than Scientology??? And scientology has millions of people who’ve swallowed it. HG and SCiento are both UFO cults… I mean, how could you have believed any of it ever?

    You need to start over… you need to do DMT maybe to reset stuff in your head. Think objectively. Be reborn if that word helps — open your eyes in the morning and think from nothing, don’t instantly start HG’ing it.

  9. JPGilyard Says:

    not to hijack this conversation, but Tim, you cant “start fresh” if youre in the old human mindset, or in the next level mindset, it takes time, you cant instantly wash off influences good or bad (i seriously wonder if you can tell the difference)
    i can see your point about ti and do, if you look at it in context, it does seem like they came out of the 60s new age\jesus people movement
    the spirituality that was going on than
    but i look at it the other way, i believe that that other spiritual stuff happening was a result of the next level influence on the -Rest Of- the world. once again, sorry to butt in Sawyer

    • tmmody Says:

      JP… hey no problem about the butting in and stuff! Thanks for your insights.

      I beg to differ. “the old human mindset” (I presume you mean that of plants) starts fresh every day… it is willing to challenge everything it knows depending on rock solid provable science or apriori postulates.

      But I’m afraid that HG’rs are so absorbed in the myth and decades of reinforcement that they can’t even conceive of washing it off. It is probably impossible for Sawyer at least — the others seem very immature and fighting over very human stuff like copyrights. The whole mindset is immune to challenge of even the slightest kind of critical thinking

      Now I see the stuff being written about planet x, nibiru, the annunuki, maitraya — and am wondering when Poseiden, Horus, and Lakshmi will start appearing. It must be overwhelming to be wading in so much gunk.

      “Next level” is nothing but heaven in a different mythology… an inventive one to be sure. like valhalla, heaven, hell, the happy hunting grounds, etc. etc. etc. etc.

      If there was a companion in any of these comets — then there would be millions of pictures… hours of video… giant headlines in science journals, magazines, and papers written, grad students energized, clubs, etc… scientists would want to know everything about it… because that’s what they do… but how many pictures are there? How much video of the companion?

      Occams razor.

      Start fresh… the universe is a beautiful mysterious place WITHOUT all the man made myths … there are ti and do’s on every continent in every state every year since humans started dreaming (julian jaynes stuff).

    • sawyer Says:

      butt in all you want anytime with anything. I let this joker carry on and get caught in addressing some of what he says, but that won’t go on very long so if you want to duel with him, have at it. He’s not much different than the know it all religionists I encounter lots of talk and little substance, looking for a podium to preach his religion from. This is what we have to wade through and sometimes a Mind actually peaks through, which I don’t have any desire for that to occur with him or anyone else, but I do have an interest in giving him a fair shake so it’s clear to the Next Level where he stands.

      • tmmody Says:

        This joker is speaking the only truth that matters — which is the truth. It is paltry compared to the myths but it is more interesting.

        I’ll let the joker thing pass. If I explained the quadratic equation would I be preaching?

        I don’t think the Next Level will judge a truth seeking with clear eyes negatively if that should happen and pigs fly (I’m an agnostic about belief remember).

        I am not a know it all… because I only know the truth — and the truth can only be based on science and wisdom and logic. It can’t be based on what Wavy Gravy told you at a Dead Show in Ventura in 1972… even though it was the best Cold Rain and Snow, space, drums, China Fire you’ve ever heard in your life.

        I talk nothing but substance. I don’t instantly delve into myth when someone asks me the time. I love myth– don’t get me wrong! I love the whole revelations thing… the Megido valley and the ice balls crushing people and stuff.

  10. jpgilyard Says:

    ive read a lot of mythology, both the original translations, and the interpretations by james frazer, robert graves, and joseph campbell, etc etc, all it is is what people understand of the next level, you may not believe the truth of Ti and Do, Tim, but i do. Do said that the next level message could be understood in two ways, and i’ll quote here rather than give my own interpretation, because i could always be wrong-Jon

    Our information may be interpreted in two vernaculars or languages:

    “Star Trek” terminology:
    — An “Away Team From Space” (a Captain and His Crew) making a last attempt, just before their departure, to inform Earth’s inhabitants of the only solution to their predicament of being enslaved by malevolent space aliens.

    Religious terminology:
    — The return of a “Savior” or “Messiah” with His “faithful flock” — to make a final offer of “salvation,” or the way to enter the real Kingdom of Heaven (to all who can believe them) — just before they leave

    • tmmody Says:

      I liked Edith Hamilton’s _Mythology_…

      In the 70’s there was Star Trek, Space 1999, Close Encounters (I didn’t like any of the close encounter movies… just too much ELO like crap)… so your “messiahs” came as captain kirk and a gay spock…

      I have trouble with all religions because they are the source of all evil in the world. all the killing, wars, cleansings, suicide cult things, etc.

      Relgion was needed in the infancy of our species… because the world is a scary place.

      But it is 2013 — and we need to put away those childish things from the infancy of our culture. They are relics from an unenlightened past.

      Now we know the truth. It isn’t very comforting in some ways. But it is awe inspiring. The truth is open to all criticism because it GROWS bigger from criticism… it gets better through criticism. It is provable… and theories are based on previous knowns.

      We don’t need religion anymore. Even in your religion, you don’t know what the first cause was… or why there is something instead of nothing. so your pretzel/wallenda/contortionist religion doesn’t even answer the main questions of existence. It just has spocks and romulans in it which makes it unique.

      In science, they are starting to understand why there is something instead of nothing — and it boils down to “Nothing is unstable” — we’ve known that below planck’s length since einstein… but in great swatches of space “dark energy” of which we know very little about could result in matter from nothing. I don’t fully understand the theory because it is very complicated — much more complicated than accurately measuring SALT in the nutra-lab.

      Religions aren’t allegories of space aliens… religions are attempts to make sense of the world — attempts to be the SCIENCE that explains it. But now that we have science and the scientific method we don’t need religion anymore. we’ve outgrown it as a species.

      we need to care about each other… not be x-ians killing muslims and jews killing muslims and muslims killing everyone… even in your religion, you refer to non believers as “plants” which is funny to me… I like plants… but it allows you not to care about “us” because we don’t matter as much.

      Get rid of the myth! Jump in brother, the water is warm and the stars are out.

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