Did Romans make up the entire New Testament to steal the people’s loyalty

Did Romans make up the entire New Testament to steal the people’s loyalty?

I just saw an article about a book that is saying the Romans made up the entire New Testament to, like you suggested control the people to get them to behave, which is not the first time I’ve seen that thinking of course but it will continue to be broadcast by the major media, even NPR (who would have guessed NPR…lol) as an affront to Christians and here’s the thing about that idea… not that I disagree with the premise, because that’s exactly what took place officially under Constantine…he captured what was a new cult movement and made it into a Hollywood cult movement – interesting how that term cult is used in one way to be a put down, scary evil, ugly premise of a “subversive culture” and on the other hand is looked up to as indicative of popularity. More evidence of how the truth is bastardized in every way shape and form in the name of …whatever one wants it to be in the name of, but anything but the facts, the truth of what really was said or done to stimulate it’s start, which brings me back to my point about this book…

So a group of Romans made up the entire new testament, he says to control people? Then why in hell don’t the people adhere to what the main presumed “teachings” put forth by jesus in that written record, fact or fiction, if that was going to capture their loyalty and keep them from rebelling against the government because they are unhappy with what the government is doing…keep them placated?

Why is it that Pauls writings became the doctrine of Christianity? Isn’t that interesting the Paul was a proclaimed Roman and was in league with a “group” of …high priests who had it in for Jesus and his followers as the story goes. So why did this author suggest that Romans conspired to create the story when in the story it says the high priests led the whole episode against Jesus and his followers, with Paul as their intelligence guy led to believe he was now one of them, as the story goes, by the blinding light and voice of jesus, he was told. Another author suggests that paul was a conspirator who made up the story about being blinded by the light that forces his awakening to stop his persecution, but that’s beside the point here.

Wouldn’t one expect to see Jesus talking about all the things Christians believe today or that they came to believe whenever it was that the first manuscripts or papyrus were created? Were they that shrewd to think the people would be fooled better if they said in Jesus the very opposite of what they would come to believe and do?

For instance, Jesus was totally against (for his students that is) any loyalty to their human family and Paul doesn’t really touch that either, except where Paul says if you can’t keep it in your pants stay married to one – the rule before Jesus suggested even lust in thought was repeating the diversion of one’s total love from the Lord, that the adultery rules were geared to instigate as giving one’s loyalty to one.

If the people had followed that Jesus storyline, they would have given no loyalty to the roman government nor the jewish government. If anything they would have given more loyalty to the roman government under Jesus teachings as he said if you were going to uses ceasars money pay the taxes he demands of you and if you find yourself in a problem with the government seek to get along with them or else you’ll find yourself locked up. And in the story, the gov’t was trying to wash their hands of murdering the guy, though on that front of course the romans would want to paint themselves as not going along entirely with the jewish leaders as they did want to keep the peace with the religious because the religious did have control over many of the people that were anti-government prone, at least in theory while in bed with the government at the same time, the way it is now with the religious in more or less all nations.

And if this roman group made it all up, when did they do it, I wonder and did it include the manufacture of documents in the old testament as well as so much of what they alleged made up was directly linked to the Old Testament, but then I guess one could say they tailored their Jesus figure from the Moses figure, but then if so, why select certain things Moses allegedly recorded and have Jesus giving them a different slant that is frankly anti the previous religion to Christianity (their creation) – Judism as it had become, just as distorted as Christianity which is just as distorted as Hindu is today from it’s Vedic records, etc. But I guess the Egyptians or Indians each had their conspiracies to create religious stories to steal the people and not cause them to revolt against the governments, which is another nutty way of looking at it in light of the way religiosity has been one of the primary motivations to war on others, controlling not only the poor who generally trust the institutions whether secular or religious as seen in the crusades, and to date with the G.W. Bush “crusade” against Islam (while in bed with the Saudi Arabians).

The bottom line is that it’s easy to control the masses but the most effective way is not through religions, at least from the human perspective is with economics and propaganda and staged sting operations – like the Trojan horse, the gulf of Tonkin “attack”, the blowing up of the Reichstag, stimulating and then looking the other way to allow the pearl harbor attack, assassinations of kings as in supposedly the reason WWI started or manipulating any event to sway public opinion, in combo with the promoted media and Hollywood help, for examples many.

But making up a story to brainwash the people into conformity by promoting disconformity on the one hand (jesus teachings) and juxtaposing a conformity of the disconformity (Pauls teachings) that ends up going world wide and lasting for millennium to where the later conformity of the original disconformity becomes the rule when the original disconformity was frankly unpopular with most everyone to begin with would be the ultimate kind of deceptivity (if that’s a word).

I guess one could say, it was and that humans can be very shrewd and that it had unexpected results but if one is making up an unbelievable story (all Jesus taught) that goes against everything of human nature, where does such an idea come from…?

Maybe it’s like the amoeba crawling out of the sea on it’s fins that by the strength of it’s desire to survive, not finding survival in it’s primordial soup adequate, wills the mutation of it’s dna to morph those little cilia – into fins, into legs so it can crawl around to find food. It’s a premise some attach to, as the alternative they think is to think some bearded fellow who sits on clouds waved his magic wand to create, each extreme of which has it’s points as there is evidence of adaptation of creatures to new environments (though hardly seen in drastic environmental changes, like an ocean coming to be in an area previous a desert…those land creatures just die off if there is that kind of flood. If it happens gradually, they move on rather then morph back to fins from legs and on the other hand there is all this folk law about things in the sky, powerful beings over humans, with cave drawings of tanks and helicopters and ancient paintings of people riding inside comets, etc. in various cultures so why not consider that that is a feasible explanation for a great deal of stuff that has no better explanation as humans kind of hate not having the security of thinking they understand and thereby have a certain control of at least their mental world.

But finally, I suggest that, this premise is actually largely correct but only able to hold more weight if one brings into it yet another wild idea few care to consider, that the religions to include Christianity were largely the creation of the Luciferian fallen angel space aliens seeking to turn humans away from the facts, the truth about their reality to keep them anestisized and functioning as humans so they would have their usage to provide their dna needs and to stimulate increasing technology advancement for all their needs; energy elements and systems, facility to travel in space (to escape the rumored end of the current civilization, that some of them experienced before on Earth and/or other near planets or relatively near solar systems of their or their ancestral origin. In other words they NEED human slaves. Any true creators of all we term nature don’t NEED any of it for their survival. If they know how to terraform a planet to become an environment for multiple species of life within evolutionary framework, they hardly NEED humans help as evidenced by what the many space alien abductee/contactee accounts have suggested over the last 70 years since the space alien premise was making itself more evident, though as with all forms of thought, equally available to deny so it all becomes a need to know basis.

If any of us show a “need to know” the evidence is plentiful that provides us with the choices that we can then build a discernment of which most often will show us what’s NOT likely the closest view of what’s true and real about any circumstance and thinking.

Like even the likes of Christopher Hitchens in his put down of those that are willing to believe the Earth was created in 7 “god” days, or periods of time as opposed to the 3.5 billion year theory based on this or that carbon and/or spectrographic dating etc. doesn’t seem to take account of what actually constituted that “creation”. Why couldn’t the big bang happened at a faster pace than humans can currently imagine and evidence? Do humans know everything about time and space and terraforming and big bangs? And what’s the value of measuring that in terms of years anyway. That entire frame of measurement is based on the amount of time carbon or it’s electromagnetic signature degrades. But isn’t that based on the Earth’s current atmosphere, current being over the last 1000 years even and in some relationship with the other electromagnetic bodies in the solar system seen or not? How do we know the sun can not be like a computer system to put out electromagnetic particles together with comets and meteors and asteroids, etc. to introduce major changes to Earth’s atmosphere that might make things have a signature that is older than it is.

And what if the Earth was literally moved into orbit of the sun. Humans now know how to put a body in orbit of another. If that was the case would that constitute having “made” the Earth if it was actually constructed or grown in some other location and moved to this one when it came time to start a new “garden”, thus explaining how it could be x in age while the start of the experiment x in age?

What’s that saying about people in glass houses and their stones?

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15 Responses to “Did Romans make up the entire New Testament to steal the people’s loyalty”

  1. tmmody Says:

    Not sure I got all that, but — all of the mythology stuff is very interesting — romans this, jews that, christ overturning Mosaic Law when he taught the kingdom gospel… Persephone going to the underworld six months of the year and space aliens giving a crap about you and me.

    But you have to treat the stories for what they are: stories. As soon as you mix logic with it, you are doomed to ignorance because science is truth and everything else is just bogus and not really that interesting.

    Hitch took me from the “live and let live” attitude about people’s faiths to the “all religion is bad” concept. As a species we have OUTGROWN them… we don’t need them anymore. Look at what it has done to you? You can’t even think logically because it is clouded with all this stuff.

    It is like a dementia. Even now you are thinking in terms of myths.

    Show one concrete piece of evidence that there even are space aliens?

    Wake up from your dream.

    • sawyer Says:

      looking for the logic in “stories” IS science. As soon as you claim it’s ignorance to look for the truth in something you become ignoring of what reality lurks within those stories. Even today there are many books written that are called sci-fi but does that make them without reality. Of course not – it’s impossible for there to be no reality even if the authors didn’t intend it…well maybe I shouldn’t say “impossible” as that would be guilty of the same ignoring of the FACT that WE don’t know a great deal about our REALITY.

  2. tmmody Says:

    Suppose I wrote a story about a monkey that ate beans and shat gold in a canoe on Lake Titicaca.

    Looking for logic in that story would not be science. It would be “Interpretation of Literature”. Which is very “science-like” — you look for clues… you base things on logic… you have theories that either succeed or collapse. But it isn’t science. It just uses the same tools as science.

    Interpretation of literature is a beautiful field! And it does really make you think a lot and is a great and beautiful thing. But it isn’t science.

    The monkey shitting gold is not reality. You can study it for whatever meaning I meant by it… The canoe isn’t even real — but canoes do exist.

    Studying myth gives you insight into human nature… just like interpreting The Great Gatsby gives you insight into human natuer (early 20th century man in F. Scott’s case).

    We don’t know a GREAT deal about our reality. Interpreting fiction won’t cure you of that… even though it is a noble effort which can be very rewarding.

  3. tmmody Says:

    I overstated last sentence… you can glean a lot of knowledge from fiction — if I wrote a fiction book but in it I laboriously explained string theory, well, then the reader would gain knowledge of string theory… I would hope they wouldn’t use my fiction book as their only resource though because I’m just an amateur physics person…..

    Get it? I learned a lot about myths studying myths… I learned that winter is when Persephone goes to the underworld and Demeter is upset… uhh, at least I learned that a lot of people used to think that. Now we know how ignorant they were…. but we cut them slack because, heck… they didn’t know better.

    We know better. And you for damn sure know better, Sawyer. We all need to put down the voodoo dolls and crucifix

    • sawyer Says:

      It’s very interesting that I find the same level of conversation regardless of whether I talk to many religionists, scientists, many spiritualists (new age and paranormalist).   They are so busy telling me what something is NOT at the same time as admitting that there is a great deal they don’t know. I smell FEAR.   If one is using tools of science – observations past and present how can you not have science in the use of those tools unless your science is a denomination of the core meaning of the word as isn’t science a “process of discovery” regardless of the tools used in the process?   The other common response I get is no response to many of the things I bring up to the same groups and I do mean groups of people who claim to adhere to the tenants of those listed isms.   Like with many Christian “leaders” I have sort of debated, they will find one verse that they believe disproves a point I am trying to provide only the option of understanding to many points, even very many, even overwhelming points that open up that understanding.   So many people are so afraid of what they don’t know, they block tons of knowing that is the forest, but as they say about the horse and the water – it’s just part of my job to keep offering the water I know I’ve been given, that is until it’s recycle time for the whole shbang as we see happening all around us in an un-paralleled way but has been morphed, mutated into humanly stimulated – the moths that create the hurricane man made global warming crisis as opposed to opening of eyes to recognize there are living beings with spacecrafts the size of planets that are not the space aliens as this world is theirs and no matter human denial it’s curtains and they don’t even have to do that much extinguishing of weeds in their ”garden”, the weeds are extinguishing one another, at least until they have what they can salvage and then they will hold off the rototiller no more. 

      • tmmody Says:

        Non sequitur. I worked with a Vietnamese guy who I loved dearly… a hilarious guy.

        When we’d be talking to the customers to get software requirements he spoke perfect english… but when the customers started questioning why something didn’t appear to work correctly, he spoke broken english and claimed he didn’t understand them.

        You are sort of that way. You speak in a stream of broken and disordered thoughts. You probably think doctors are witches from planet xenu… but you should consult your GP just to make sure everything is okay. You may have a physical malady like a thyroid issue… something that can be readily solved.

        I do give a shit, Sawyer. I do.
        When you speak with him/her, tell him/her what I said about disordered thinking. Be honest. And accept help. If Herf taught you anything besides how to measure salt in the neutralab, I hope he taught you that it is okay to seek out help.

        Ti sought help for her eye issue. Follow her example.

      • sawyer Says:

        There you go with the insults again.

      • tmmody Says:

        Reread what you wrote. I’m just saying that your prose is disjointed and confusing. That could be a symptom of something. SERIOUSLY.

        I hope you know that reaching out for help isn’t a sign of weakness; but a sign of strength. That you know your limits. A sign of wisdom.

      • sawyer Says:

        I don’t write prose so am not bound by it’s rules. I am fully aware of my academic faults and do try to improve but frankly there are so many people I end up communicating with that all have various degrees of belief, understanding, conception, consciousness, awarnesses and limiting aspects of what they consider or even are willing to consider that tending to all that is frankly not to date within my expertise to do and keep organized. It’s like talking a different language often. I’ll give you are good example: you said you love me in a comment. Short, simple and to the point but from my perspective not  demonstrative of reality, at least the way I define that term “love”. So it is with MANY of the terms I talk about. Others don’t compute what I’m saying and then I leave loose ends continuously that doesn’t help but, then ASK QUESTIONS to I can tie up the loose ends or assume it’ s a non-sequitor one of those “catch alls” I’ve been subjecdt to from debunkers of the consideration of what might very well be new thinking, that I commonly receive. Christians just say, “I don’t believe that”.   I remember when I first started with computers and the DOS operating system came out and the hard disk was organized in directory structures that the CPM system I learned on didn’t have. I was baffled by the concept as simple as it is to me now to understand and use. It took days of using it before it didn’t challenge my brain to not be stressed about. The same thing kind of happened around the subject of ufo’s and space aliens. I was not opposed to the prospect of such existences and this was after I joined with Ti and Do as I had no exposure to anything alien or UFO related before though must have heard of stuff as the terms were recognizable. Anyway, we had a book on roswell in the library in the group but I had no interest in it and so never picked it up. It wasn’t required reading.  Then in 1987 12 years after joining Do brought in the book, “UFO Crash at Aztec” and it was one big thick book and made certain parts of the appendix mostly required reading, so I read it and was troubled by it. I read Stringfields autopsy reports and some other stuff.   And it was like, “is this real”, I can remember thinking. But I kept reading it and then went back and read it again, all over 4-5 days time and then walla a bubble popped and I remember thinking to myself, “This is real. This really happened. Aliens exist”. Now this is after having run around the U.S. for months telling people about Bo and Peep as the Two Witnesses to where ufo’s were as Ti and Do stated, “buses” for members of the Level Above Human, depicted as clouds of light, etc. in the historic records and in hieroglyphics, etc.   So I was being helped out of my “spiritual” mindset, that is pertaining to the way I thought about things.   And acutally I had a rather amazing “ufo” sighting after joining the group but it still didn’t bring that reality into view to displace the spiritual mindset that dominated my thought processes.   The same thing happened with the subject of “spirits” – discarnates. I had a minor intro to the subject before joining, as I also had a minor intro to the ufo subject before joining and I generally “believed” these were both real but didn’t claim to understand anything about how real they might very well be. I just did not discount it either.   So I went about my life in the group believing in discarnates and even thought I had glimpses of things occasionally but we weren’t taught to try to see them or anything like that, just to understand they exist and the tools of keeping them from influencing our behavior and ways, that I did see work, but of course all in my head.   Then over a couple days and then over a number of weeks and months, a few years ago Ti came to me in a dream and walla, I had many experiences of being totally awake and seeing spirits. Then they stopped.   But since leaving the group, then after 1997, their exit, I began having dreams with them in them, all sorts with different classmates, some with Do some as an observer of them and some where they just so happened to be answering questions I had the day or so before.   These continue with very specific messages and they are intermingled with dreams that are with images that look like classmates and Ti and Do but in them they are doing stupid things that don’t impart any messages I would equate with being from Their minds from my experience interfacing with them for 19 years and thereafter.   And then I began to wonder if they would want to give me some ideas of things that might happen in the future. As by then I was regularily seeking to communicate with others all over the net, about Ti and Do, etc. I would frequently get thrown out of atheist chats or threads or blogs as well as Christian ones as well as spiritual new age ones, etc. so I was always tempted to say and actually did say a few times like I sort of said to you, “let’s set up a test. What would be proof to you that what I have to say might be based on realities you have not yet encountered?”. But before offering something like that I wanted to know whether that was from Ti and Do’s mind or not. In other words, would they give me something or give someone I was communicating with something that to them might leave them wondering if it was the proof I had suggested might come to pass on their behalf?   So I began to wonder and walla, I began to have premonitions that I had had before but weren’t very clear. And they always seemed to start in my head with the words, “I wonder if…”. It didn’t work if I just forced that “wonder”. It had to happen without my instigation for it to show up with a fulfillment of the wondering and of course could always be explained away as coincidence, which I a number of times put on that coincidence shelf of my brain, until they started to mount up and I saw some patterns.   One was, while driving home on the only road that most directly goes to my rural home I just “wondered if there was going to be some type of blockage in the road up ahead”. There were no neon lights in my head. It was casual. No heightened sense of this being from God or HARPP or something. And as was seldom the case on this road, I came upon a construction crew that totally blocked the road so I had to wait until they let my lane go through. Coincidence? Maybe, but can anyone reading this with skeptism say to them selves, “maybe not” – maybe it was actually orchestrated by someone who was cloaked to my eyes? Just that little word, “maybe”! allows that door to open but how many people refuse to even think maybe or if they hear themselves think it, shut it off fearing if they open that door they will be prone to turning that little puff on marijuana into becoming a feared heroin addict religionist/spiritualists, lefty, wacco, heratic (depending on one’s persuasion brand of choice) and upbringing?   Well I didn’t become a heroin addict from my yute’s mary jane usage as I was warned against in high school and I didn’t become a religionist either from my early belief in Jesus while hating anything to  do with Catholicism but instead became over the top of all of them but in a most believable way like the title of the first book Ti and Do started to write but never finished, “I can’t believe that but you must”.   I can honestly tell you that starting in around the year 2003 when I occasionally would watch and at times re-watch Do’s exit videos or beyond human video’s, I would find myself in a form of disbelief and I’d have to turn it off as it was unsettling to watch but I knew it was me that was confronting the invisibles by watching and hearing Do speak or reading his words. It was  the discarnates in and/or around my head that had some interface with my brain that is purely technical but I’ll leave out now, that were the ones who were in disbelief and hating to hear as by my listening they could lose the hold they still had on me that was complete with all the justifications – reading, schooling, parents, what they said growing up or didn’t say or should have said or shouldn’t have said.   So I suspect reading what I write, though I know I’m lousy in the academic order and all, is very, very hard to follow and especially when someone fears following it. If it wasn’t fear then those people who don’t understand what I’m saying would get back to me and ask what I meant but this or that?    

      • tmmody Says:

        That was really clear! The bible stuff is usually where you get confusing.

        The bible stuff is a real bummer because it is just a complete waste of time.

        I just wrote a 10-digit number on a piece of paper and am leaving it on my desk. If you tell me that number — I’ll sell everything and join you as an apprentice.

        No hex… a straight 10-digit number. Like this one:


        Hey — i didn’t mean to be disrespectful… just colloquial.

      • tmmody Says:

        You know… to so much of the world… it is like The Kinks never existed. Which is really sad because I wuold hold them up there with the beatles, beach boys, byrds, etc.

        I’ve always been into progressive rock for some reason… King Crimson, Yes, ELP… I’m not ashamed to say that.

        Really. If there is any music you want let me know. I will send. Do you want all the beatles? in stereo? in mono? Maybe Aoxamoxa… or L.A. Woman… maybe classical is your gas… I can get it all… Prokofiev’s 5th? For the Love of three oranges? Ravel? Stravinksy? Bach? Wendy Carlos?

  4. tmmody Says:

    Hope you are jamming out on the sax. Seriously, I was impressed with your last message — it made perfect sense. It could be like R. D. Laing said about schizophrenics — that they operate on a level that to us sounds like a record stylus skipping around on a record player. So your stuff about the bible just comes off as disjointed to me but would make perfect sense to someone on your level biblically. I learned a classical bible interpretation.

    Take my criticism with a grain of salt because I don’t entirely where you are coming from.

    Your autobiography would be more interesting than your interp of the scene you were in.

    Peace, Brother Sawyer.

    Your daughter needs you … you have to isoloate your weird self from your father self and be a plant where she is concerned. Be honest with her and use her as a sounding board… but don’t try to lay the scene on her because she (like 9 billion others) don’t buy it.

    On a healthier note, I’m trying to get Raelian chicks to have sex with me. Raelians believe in “free love” and ufos… Nice!

    • sawyer Says:

      I bet that alien love is something else…maybe you can even get some alien crabs.  

      • tmmody Says:

        🙂 I have never had crabs. Raelians just think that aliens engineered some of our evolution stuff… I’d have to see what definitive proof they have of that.

        I am talking up a lot of raelian chicks for random sex… they seem very willing, unfortunately there aren’t any in IOWA! I even live 45 minutes north of Fairfield and Vedic City Maharishi U… you may have been there during your sojourns. These are the floaters — they hop in the lotus position and remain in the air longer than 9.8 m/s/s would allow. All bullcrap of course… but I would have thought that surely some hot Raelian chicks would live there.

        The raelians have been accused of using sex to brainwash/recruit new members — like lovebombing. I could partake of the hot raelian action and since I’m immune to cult stuff would never have to truly drink the kool-aid.

        Pretty cool idea, huh? They get what they want — hot action and a possible convert — I get what I want — hot action!

  5. Differences between Ti & Do’s Heaven’s Gate group & ‘UFO Centric” groups; Morman, Scientology, Raelians | Sawyerhg's Blog Says:

    […] Here is a question from a visitor to this blog and my response. He has been very busy with commenting. The blog post this is from is: https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2013/10/12/did-romans-make-up-the-entire-new-testament-to-steal-the-pe… […]

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