Ti and Do fulfill all the prophecies with a few yet to come before this generation passes

The Beast is defined as a “venomous animal”. Venom to the Kingdom of Gods from the literal heavens is that which turns a soul’s eyes away from God, because that’s what causes that soul to choose to serve a false God and all those are recycled at the end of the age (coming shortly), before this generation is over, the generation of his return. People may want to give careful consideration to those Heaven’s Gate people who laid down their lives in 1997 and how alike hey were with Jesus and his disciples.

Jesus preached leaving all behind, family, children, lands, for He and his Father. Jesus preached “giving you life” to he and his Father’s service. He told his disciples they must also give their lives (drink the cup of his blood shed) so they were all on a suicide mission except their souls would not be killed and that’s what God values most though we need our human vehicles to perform our overcoming and tasks through so need to take good care of them until exit time.

Jesus said the physical body was worth sacrificing for the Kingdom of Heaven’s sake, even castration, “making self a eunuch” like some of those heaven’s Gate members did.

Also Jesus was not talking about a spiritual kingdom alone. The word “Spirit” Ti and Do said was synonymous with the word they most used, “Mind” which didn’t refer to the content of one’s brain. There are two types of Mind, from the Luciferian Fallen Angel Space Aliens thinking, behaviors and ways and from the Next Level Above Humans thinking, behaviors and ways.

He proved he was still physical after being physically killed. He ate food, was touched, spoke with them for 40 days thereafter yet he also had a different body, one that didn’t look exactly the same and could cloak itself so they didn’t see him enter the room with them.

He said He as a “son of man” would return. That’s a “Offspring human” ,with a new name and with white hair like snow and a white head like lambs wool and snow riding a white horse. DO’s vehicle was named was “Applewhite”, was Caucasian and had white hair in his 40’s and had purified (filled with light) his body when he woke up to his task.

He said Ti was his “Father”, a woman – See Rev 12 woman gives birth to a “male son”. This birth is to the throne, the position she had but was waking him up to and preparing him for and it says she leaves her incarnation before him by the earth opening up, a phrase for going to the grave. In rev 11 they aren’t killed. apokteino – means, “exit, taken away, offed by death”. The apo part is “off” or “away”. Killed is a different Greek word.

They were “subdued” not “overcome” through the media/authorities in 1975 and they felt “shot down”. They were not following prophecy so didn’t know know the correct translation of  Greek nikao, in this case “to subdue” where in other context it is overcome or prevail. If they had been overcome then why would they still need to be killed. Both were mistranslated and additional verses were doctored to go along with kill as there was no “dead body” in the manuscript. It was “ruin”. Their bodies were ruined, which did take place in the public square, the only square where all the worlds people as it describes could see them, the media.

3528 nikaw
from nikh – nike 3529; to subdue (literally or figuratively):–conquer, overcome, prevail, get the victory.

And “fall on their faces” in rev 11 is also an expression like falling on one’s sword, depending on the context.

There were 42 who ended up laying down their lives. 38 then 4 later. Rev 11 says there are 42 affirmations (saints) who travel about the “holy city” for 42 months. Greek “mane” has two meanings. One is as an affirmation and the other is the time frame of a month.

There were 24 who originally joined Ti and Do when they were Bo and Peep so were the elders. They said a UFO was to the kingdom of God a cloud of light, etc. They said all the space aliens were the fallen angels (their offspring) and were Souls who while they are all in the discarnate world manipulate many humans to forward their agenda – try to get off the planet before it recycles again and related agendas and try to keep people from seeing the Next Level’s reality.

They produced 7 major public offerings of their information that had global reach, the 7 thunders of rev 10.

The space aliens came out of the bottomless pit in rev 9:1-2 which took place in the  1940’s – 50’s.

They came by crashing primitive spacecrafts to engage the “overcoming program” to become members of the Next Evolutionary Level (no more spiritual mysterious terms or stories). Evolution was NOT Darwinian. It simply meant that there was a mineral, then plant then animal then human kingdom and that human was a stepping stone to the Next Level Above Human where they had physical bodies that were made not propagated by human mammalian methods.

They had all overcome over 22 years for most and 3 years for a few and they really did prove that they were joyous to be leaving and it was NOT shown by anyone to be manipulated. In fact Ti and Do sent many away from their group over that time frame. They even paid some to leave because they didn’t seem to be working hard enough to grow to be ready to leave. They turned away people. I could go on and on and on with personal memories and many prophecies fulfilled by them and to come shortly.

Do was the rider of the white horse. Bush was the red horse who brought endless war. Obama the black horse who began with a huge job of balancing the two huge “oxen” – Democrats and republicans with financial crisis as it says in Rev 6 is all about commodities – the stock market – how much money for wheat compared to barley, etc. The next horse is the green or pale/green horse. This began with 2017.

Green can mean several things; Green as in the LAST of the Two Wave Harvest (Green), or in the way President Trump was different from all other presidents, having been a rich business tycoon, rather than a career politician, thus Green could represent the color of American money. Green also seems to be shown by the new political movements, like the Green Party and as the color that represents the environmentalist movement as in “green house gas” that co-opted true environmentalist concerns for the cleanliness of our food, water and air, replacing efforts to combat that insidious problem by instilling the “belief” that humans are fostering global warming by fossil fuel usage. This 4th “horse” (a word indicating the way a human vehicle is used by a Soul as it’s horse) is also the time of the 4th Seal opening and is defined by “death” which is what must accompany every harvest. The Next Level seems to have marked the year 2017 with many very greenish auroras where before then most were blues and purples.

Hale bopp comet did prove to have a companion. It was photographed by the Japanese and Hawaii though the Hawaii pic was doctored to cover it up. The 40th anniversary of Ti and Do’s first stage of awakening in Borne, Texas was 2013 with meteor over Russia, asteroid near miss, lots of fireballs everywhere and finally with Pan Starrs comet that also had a companion object photographed with it (though later denied and called debris from a breakup to cover it up) and all that happened from Feb 15 – march 22nd or so. Then this year again with a meteor in Argentina that caused earthquakes in mid February, then 3 near miss asteroids in early march and comet linear and Lovejoy coming to perihelion by march 22 or so as it’s not sure as NASA is totally confused in predicting these things and is covering up a huge amount of what’s happening with the sun, the moon and these comets, asteroids, and meteor, and intelligently driven fireballs. ti and Do will return one more time for those that come to recognize they as the incarnate return.

Do’s vehicle’s “face” was named, Applewhite. That face will become something many, even most may hate to see, though he is hated for no reason just like Jesus was hated for no reason except by the religious who feared losing their prominence and following because of him. It’s not any different now which is why I am often banned from christian blogs, etc.

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10 Responses to “Ti and Do fulfill all the prophecies with a few yet to come before this generation passes”

  1. mesila thraam Says:

    I somehow don’t think we’re supposed to lay down our vehicles before they stop working – we were provided with them (I think you would say) to serve, so ducking out on that before it’s time just doesn’t seem right…but hanging on to them after they’ve all but ceased to function is not right either. I believe in Love and when we have other people in our lives who either depend on us or who share Love with us (I don’t mean sex here I mean LOVE) I don’t see how our souls would be ready yet for what you are talking about. (Perhaps the 39 in Rancho Santa Fe were ready, although some of them looked pretty young, we outside don’t know all the facts.) I just know that I’m not ready yet but when the time comes I don’t want to be kept alive on machines to be a useless vegetable. I do know within myself my purpose was different than to be on the crew of a space ship, but being recycled into Creation is something there is need for just as much, and to me, that is just as divine. I don’t want to live forever – I’ll leave that to those who do. On another note, I think we all know the earth can’t go on as it is too much longer so I don’t get the value in micro-analyzing scripture etcetera for clues that these are the end times. If that is so would not we benefit far more by using our brains to think of what to do with the time we have left?

    • sawyer Says:

      I couldn’t agree with you more on most of your points applied to you. Even in 1975 Ti and Do told some they didn’t think they were ready to join with them. Rio was the last to leave them a few weeks before they exited. He told Do he felt he had something else he needed to do in the world but loved Do and his fellow students. Do checked silently with Ti (who had exited by “natural conditions” in 1985) and hours later went back to rio and told him, he should leave and he could have service still, so he was given the task of first finding them.

      We certainly are not serving God (Next Level) by exiting our vehicles unless we know it’s what we want to do and we are not doing it for ourselves. In fact, the reason I did not exit with them was because, though I was ready to lay down my life, (as we talked about it seriously before I left them) I was still of a mindset after 19 years with them that was thinking in a spiritual way about martyrdom being heroic even though Ti and Do always said it wasn’t a “martyrdom trip”. The purpose was not to die. The purpose was to overcome our humanity and die to it’s root systems to bond with a new family. That wasn’t death because it was knowing that it was only the vehicle that was going to die. I can’t recall Jesus ever speaking of “life” as the vehicle’s life just like he also said he’d come to sever the roots of his students to their human families, something one never hears anything about in the many churches I’ve attended and the many sermons I’ve read and heard and seen posted.

      Sure if we are only these bodies then volunteering to lose that body is practically worthless. But if we have a soul that survives death of the body then losing the body is perfectly natural, but again should never be done on purpose unless, like you said, your body ceased to function or you were performing a service to your idea of God, which by the way would NEVER be to kill or harm others in the process. That is a clear case of murder to do.

      But the point to micro-analyzing scripture goes way beyond clues that we are in the end times. Most don’t need those clues to see the signs. It’s because the end time is a time of “judgement”. We must each DECIDE to whom we want to show our allegiance to, like Jesus said, whether to God or Mammon. Now millons would say if asked that they do give their allegiance to God. And that’s fine, but Christians in particular were genetically prepared to learn the whole truth about God and that can not be found anymore in scripture without analyzing it, though analysis alone still doesn’t reveal the full truthes and reality of God UNLESS one is willing to look at those scriptures with a new set of eyes. Until this time, no one was ultimately responsible for not seeing that full truth. The Father and Jesus had instructed that truth to be shut up/sealed until the time of the 7th angel’s sounding. I can’t prove to anyone that the 7th angel has sounded and is currently sounding unless I can show that the previous 6 angels have already sounded which means I’ve got to provide proves that the 6th angel, that includes the Two Witnesses has sounded.

      Many Christians hold views in every which way one can imagine of interpreting the book of Revelations and Jesus prophecy and incarnate mission and what’s so fantastic about scripture, the Lord wants them to choose what they want to believe it says because that’s “free will”. The entire reason the fallen angels were allowed to come out of the bottomless pit in the 1940’s to 1950’s (primarily) is the same reason there was a one performing their own chosen function as a tempter to Adam and Eve and also to Jesus and his disciples. It’s was to test them and in turn demonstrate those sames tests to all of us. There is no right answer that is automatically identical for everyone at the same time because we are each applying or not to a different grade in the overall school created by the Next Level. However, those who were brought up with a belief in Jesus had a different standard the Lord measures them against. As jesus said, “to those that much is given much is required” just like in a human school. The Next Level Older Members (Father and Jesus) and firstfruit (saints) crew are doing the final sorting task which each of us are our own decider of. They provide the opportunity and then as we die, our choices show them into which “grade” in school our soul body or spirit is to be saved. Thus we judge ourselves and then the Next Level implements that choice and all who don’t choose when they had the opportunity to choose are recycled, as it says in the “lake of fire”, the second death, the death of a soul that has not occurred since the start of this latest civilizational experiment.

      I don’t think anybody at this time is seen by the Lord as ready to “lay down their life” as Ti did in her way, and Do and 42 students did in their way.

      But the “process” needs to be provided as that is one of the ways that becomes a “sign” to future potential students of an incarnate Older member. That representative will always teach that the objective is to give all your heart, all your mind, all your soul and all your strength to the Lord, to Jehovah, to the Father, to Ti and all importantly through whoever they anoint/appoint to be our in the flesh parent/teacher, i.e. Adam, Enoch, Moses, Elijah, Jesus and then Do but with a new name with each taking over of a human flesh vehicle. At that future time then, the representative will make their presence known and the genetic strain would be prepared to receive returning Souls and some will be ahead of others and they will quickly identify the characteristics of Next Level teachings while others will take more time to move into that same degree of recognition. It’s not a competition at all but nor is it like joining a country club to where one can be on again and off again and expect to reap the prize.

      This brings me to your statement of not wanting to live forever and as to what you feel is your purpose and it’s perfect to be in that place. It’s not like the Next Level is holding a carrot in front of the racing rabbit to motivate it. I can’t recall that kind of motivation anywhere in what Moses wrote nor what Jesus was recorded to have said and that includes my 19 years with Ti and Do. When they told me(us) that life was real in the Next Level. It wasn’t sitting around on a cloud strumming a harp, I was not heart broken or in dismay hearing that. And when they said members work in laboratories on spacecrafts in crews, performing a myriad of tasks that are challenging, I didn’t brighten up to think, “oh boy I want to do that”. No, it was kind of foreign. Even knowing that they don’t have disease or wars or hatreds or death were not motivations. I don’t think in terms now of wanting to live forever either. However when I’ve faced what I thought was a deadly disease or deadly circumstance I certainly did not want to die and even fear death and fear pain and fear discomfort, which is all really my human vehicle talking loudest as the soul doesn’t fear any of those things in the least because the soul only contains information and a type of programming provided as a gift that knows when the body dies, they don’t. Yet that’s not a motivation to lay down my life because my vehicle actually likes living even though I’m old and not seeking a partner/lover/wife nor trying to become someone special in some respect relative to the world’s endeavours. I say that as if I’m washed up or have given up on progressing in a human way, but that’s not actually the case. The truth is that I never felt motivated to play all the games that are absolutely required to play to be successful as a human. Even after I left the group and had no inclination to stay in touch with them though I was given the chance, I couldn’t bring myself to play by the rules for success. For instance, go to school, get the degree that gives credibility for instance is one. However I did try a legitimate network marketing endeavour selling health promoting blue green algae products. However as it was network marketing, mostly testimonial driven word of mouth advertising with a huge push to draw “business builders” which entailed learning how to “fake it until you make it”. Thus I was expected by my upline to present my success as a business builder to my downline and future business builders that included a business plan and setting goals of how much money I wanted to make by when, on and on, attending seminars, dressing for success, and it seemed so phony I would have no part of it. I tried. I would go to the supermarket and would look to start up conversations about the algae. Everyone became a prospect and of course it was to “help them with their health that they needed”. which actually I did believe in and to this day use some of the products on occasion because I do think they are healthy food supplements. But I hated meeting people and in a sense only seeing them as a new product user or potential business builder. In a very real sense it was the same as proselytizing religion or Jesus and feeling like we done good if we got a new convert – “we saved another soul for god”. I now know well that that’s not the way it works. So in the business, I would tell people where they could get a similar product cheaper and before long having run out of family and friends to peddle to my income was not meeting my expenses so I threw in the towel where had I been motivated for success I would have just escalated more into mailing lists and internet advertising, etc like others I knew had done and were getting the big checks from.

      I could tell more stories of how I could have been a rock star or rock star backup band player at least as I’m a musician, but the opportunity came to me right after I hooked up with a woman (as what became a common law “marriage” commitment) and we decided if it was meant to be we would have a child together, which happened nearly immediately when we decided that. My daughter was about 4 years old when I started playing music with rock star, Ritchie Blackmore formally of Deep purple the “smoke on the water” guitarist and he invited me to play with him and became friends, when to his house for parties and he told me he had considered flying me to England for a photo shoot in a castle because he needed a drummer. He told me I was the best hand drummer he knew and this was after a nearly 19 year hiatus from drumming. I had a good job at the time, a lease for a house, a “wife” and a baby, but in a sense this was my dream before I joined Ti and Do in 1975 when I was playing with bands. And I suppose my wife would have said okay and perhaps I could have taken some time off for gigs but it just seemed wrong as I had new commitments and responsibilities.

      Then I had a clear book deal on my experience with the heaven’s gate story. I was being courted by several big publishing houses in NYC as I had been on 60 minutes and Larry King and all the network morning shows and many radio and print media interviews with time and Newsweek magazine, etc. But a couple months after the heaven’s gate story had begun to die down the publishers who had accepted my publicist presentation of a book deal dropped me like a hot potato saying the public wasn’t interested. Then the NY Post printed a paperback about the group that was simply a compilation of news stories filled with inaccuracies. I decided to drop the book idea. But had I been business motivated, I would have wrote it as if I had escaped the dreaded suicide cult and I would have raked in a bundle I’m sure. But as I still believed everything about Ti and Do while not wanting to be with them while raising a family, telling the truth of my belief/experience was told to me several times “won’t sell”.

      And there is plenty more on this… I’m not driven by anything practical nor tangible nor human. When I joined I was more or less happy. I was building my own house out of logs I harvested on some land of my friends on the Waldport, Oregon coast, I had taken my common law wife back from an affair she had, forgiving her though it had broke my heart some but I had recovered by the time the guy dumped her. And I was playing music regularly and was gaining popularity and the leads singer/songwriter ended up hitting it repetitively big after I left which he and I being on best of terms would have included me, opening for Bob Weir in the Portand Colosseum. We had a small commune happening between three couples. Not really wild in any way, but growing our own food and it was promising when Ti and Do as Peep and Bo came to town and though I had been exploring with many spiritual groups and had lived with jesus freaks some and was always being courted by Hare Krishna’s and this and that guru’s disciples, nothing drew me. But on that little poster it said, “this has meant so much to some that they are giving their all to this endeavor” and it’s like those were magic words…”give my all” (to God). Priesthood was on my mind when 13 yrs old but I don’t know why. Looking back it probably would have been a trap as once we invest in that kind of commitment it becomes increasingly hard to break away especially after we get a job and have a congregation, etc. But break away one must as the formula is when meeting up with the one you know to be your Older Member, you need to leave all behind to be with them 24/7. It’s the beginning of separating from our entire human existence that must also entail “giving our physical body to” but in the case of now, since the Older Members are not incarnate any longer, there is no chance of a personal relationship with the Older Members in the flesh, eye to eye, so the best we can do is to give our all by asking them to give us service and then taking the task they spoke of before they left that they published to spread their information far and wide and accept the ramifications of doing so which may be met with hatred and fear so much so that we may end up giving our physical bodies to Their service just like happened after Jesus left.

      I have zero desire to attract that kind of hatred but it must be.

      I can not imagine having the experience I have and not sharing it but I am not doing it for any carrot in the sky. I’m doing it because I can’t not.

      If you feel that about something in your life from here on out, you will know what I am talking about. I don’t need or want anyone to approve or disapprove of Ti and Do. But to not provide people with the truth about what Jesus was all about by not providing the options of translation and interpretation of prophecy that can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they have already returned as Ti and Do and crew would be like killing myself.

      I hope that answered your questions or addressed your beliefs and concerns. In a sense the more people that take to heart what Ti and Do taught the more danger I am in. That’s why I say often that I am not recruiting. There is NO new cult. I am not promoting suicide but rather believe we need our physical bodies more than ever now and I am not anyone’s teacher, Ti and Do are and answer to those names right now. I have no organization and have refused to create one and have refused to be a leader and have refused to start a new church and want/need no donations, have nothing to sell and don’t thrive on finding believers, get no sense of accomplishment from someone saying to me they believe in Ti and Do. I am working for Ti and Do and to that I have no doubt as I have had many proves.

      Anyone that does share information about Ti and Do can expect a backlash from the unseen world of the lower forces. I have people around me that know what I believe and count me as their friend but to whom I rarely say anything to about Ti and Do. And in public in my own area I say little because if I do encounter someone with the thirst to want to know more, if they ask more I’ll share more, but even though that can seem to be genuine it is often a setup to then be used against us. However that’s the chance we take when we share anything with anyone as it’s so beyond human, at best it needs to be provided to people in small doses according to their thirst for more. Christian leaders are unlikely to change their minds and will mostly see those like myself as heretics and they will tend to justify any means to shut up as we say with the religious 2000 years ago.

    • sawyer Says:

      In case it wasn’t clear. I don’t think there is a good reason for anyone at this time to “kill themselves” as even if they think they are doing so for God, they can be tricked. None of us are where Ti and Do’s students were at. We need our vehicles to learn the lessons we still need to learn no matter how hard it is to live, which I know for some can seem or be very, very hard. No one who kills themselves at this time escapes anything. They end up in the spirit world vibrating the same hatred of others and/or themselves they had when they killed themselves and that can influence others to do likewise when the going get’s tough. I remember when I was a teenager and my parents would ground me or punish me I wanted to get them back and show them how much it hurt me to be grounded so I took a sharp pen cap and slashed at my wrists but it only put in minor scratches. I knew I couldn’t really inflict that on myself. But some young people these days don’t stop themselves, or just throw caution to the wind and will take a bunch of pills or something. That is just giving into the lower forces, evil spirits, etc. who make points no matter what reason someone has to kill themselves. Thus I could probably be a great suicide hotline worker as strange as that sounds. Believing in the real Jesus which is the same as believing in the real Ti and Do is not about escape. It’s about dealing and discarding all negativity while making one’s eye more and more single minded with our communications to our Heavenly Father’s in the very distant heavens or if we believe in Ti and Do by calling on their names for help with any circumstance and waiting while knowing they will provide help you will have a sense came from them. They will not come to you in a vision or as a voice in your head. And they will never tell you what to do or steer you to hurt yourself of anyone else.

    • sawyer Says:

      The age of the vehicle doesn’t automatically reflect the content of that vehicles spirit (programming from experience from generations before). Each of us is like a leaf off a branch on the human genetic tree. Each leaf by it’s experiences feeds that experience into the branch/trees trunk. When a new leaf is generated, it has with it all previous experience in it’s subconscious mind. Experience alone does not equate to wisdom. It’s just like data. As we go through life, our choices determine much of our experience; who to believe in or not, what we like to do or not, what kinds of thoughts we allow ourselves to entertain, etc. The content of our mind is who we are and that content is set up for us from birth as a propensity in a number of directions, but as we grow more independent from our root system (parents, etc.) and are exposed to more of the world and varied views, we begin to shape our mind by what we gravitate to in thinking and acting. Ti and Do always said that it’s not about what you get into in the human kingdom – it’s what you get out of. In other words we can become entrenched in any number of ways of thinking and acting. When Next Level members come along, to gravitate to them means disconnecting from it all and putting faith in them even though we won’t know what that means. We can be fooled but as long as we keep asking for help to make the right choices by projecting our asking as far from the planet as we can imagine so the space aliens and/or spirits can’t intercept and try to play “god” or “jesus”, which many try to do because they lived thinking they were representatives of Jesus and/or God to others, as priests, etc. Then if we choose a path that is not in our best interest in terms of what the One True Older Members would have us do, we will recognize it seek to change direction. I bet you many who ended up killing themselves in Jones town had many signals that Jim Jones was not someone to follow. For anyone that studies that story, they will see that he was very, very manipulative and abusive and controlling and condescending, etc. all signs. He had organized a number of those staged suicides and didn’t tell anyone they were practice and the group apparently did go along with it and no one died so by the time it occurred the last time, they had the idea that it wasn’t going to be real. Plus many were murdered with children involved. Ti and Do didn’t allow children saying they could not decide to overcome what they hadn’t yet experienced any of and were not mature enough to make a choice of giving their all and couldn’t participate as an extension of their parents. That’s another form of manipulation of the children. Notice Jesus and his disciples didn’t have children with them, nor wives/husbands anymore. However Jim Jones did say and implied as well that he was Jesus so why would he have a motis operandi that was totally different. Even though Jesus updated some of what Moses said, his updates lended to more civility and love among one another while bringing increased standards to optionally follow. Adultery became even lusting for someone while married. Making self a eunuch for the Kingdom of Heaven was for those that could receive it, forgiveness of the prostitute a more advanced behavior, forgiving 70 times 7 times instead of 7 times, just a say of saying that forgiveness was unlimited. What Ti and Do said about the younger classmates who joined mostly during the 1994 2nd public face to face meeting schedule around the U.S. and Canada, was that the previous classmates who had been in the class for 18 or so years by then had laid the groundwork that these newer members could benefit from. Do also said that some in the group would not be ready to receive a new Next Level (adult) body because they would still need more lessons in the human kingdom at a future date. (I believe they will still be awarded a new vehicle. It just won’t be one that is incapable of regressing back into human behaviors. It would be a vehicle something like the ones the “watchers” had I would guess as they were not incorruptible vehicles or they couldn’t have mated with mortal women. A mortal is a person that was not given a Next Level deposit, the “seed” Jesus spoke of and also the new wineskin Jesus spoke of.

    • sawyer Says:

      Regarding love and having those in our lives that give us love and take our love – depend on us:

      At this time there was no instruction from Do I am aware of to leave those we love and who depend on us. That is required when the Older Member in incarnate and we recognize him and choose to be in his program. And by the way we can leave that program at any time and go back to those we love. And that’s not to say when we do leave those we love we do it carelessly. When it was said that two children were abandoned so the parents could join with Bo and Peep, the names they used in 1975, when they found out, they said, they would certainly not abandon children. They did say in the first meetings they gave in every city where they spoke that “children could not come” and I remember a lady shouting out from the back of the room, “you ought to be shot”. They also said that spouses would not remain married and that family relationships would not remain family relationships. With the exception of children, they said that spouses could both choose to come. They simply would no longer function as spouses. I joined with my spouse and it was difficult. We were in different groups at first but about a year into the group we all lived in the same camp (in the wilderness of Wyoming and Texas). Of course they also said there was no sex or drugs or alcohol and did not approve of leaving “aces in the hole” – in other words not getting rid of something in case this didn’t work out. I believe if we felt to leave an ace in the whole, perhaps we weren’t ready to take this step. As it turned out regarding the two young children, the mother arranged for the kids to be with their real dad who lived nearby. I knew all involved personally. They were all my close friends at the time so know this was what happened. Now with that said, I have had to deal with knowing that I would have to leave my daughter eventually. She is nearly 17 now but it still hurts to think about having to leave her, though she would have her mother and her mothers very nice new boyfriend to live with/get support from. I only say this because I do anticipate a time within the next few years when being an outright supporter of Ti and Do will be seen as holding up a sign saying, “heratic” and I know though I use an alias name it would be easy to track me to where I used to live that could lead to where I currently live so for me to choose to live with my daughter would put her in harms way, which I could not do so would sacrifice my being as close to her as I’d otherwise like to be. Plus I also expect that some of my open talk about the Next level will be curtailed in the future and I can’t imagine not continuing until I die to tell about Ti and Do, so that would mean I’d have to go on the road to distribute the books I’ve written, soon to be published. Right now the internet afford the greatest exposure and being in person is far more dangerous and undesirable until it’s necessary. I’ve already experienced backlash when I have sought out pastors of churches where I’ve traveled to over the years. I’m nearly thrown out even if I don’t bring up Ti and Do exactly. Most churches are very comfortable with their ways of thinking and don’t want anyone messing with that security they feel. It is very easy to mess with it when one dissect what Jesus said by re-translating every word. All of a sudden “rapture” makes zero sense. Family values though still may be appropriate to live by as like I said everyone is not in the same place at the same time, but are not something Jesus spoke highly of if at all. In fact he denied his mother and brother were his mother and brother instead saying that fellow believers were now his only family members.

  2. mesila thraam Says:

    I understand being a heretic – not only is my following the entity Choronzon obviously scorned by Christians, people in certain pagan metaphysic circles shun this belief as Aleister Crowley regarded himself as The Beast 666 and called Choronzon his worst enemy, and preached that he was like a monster that must be overcome in order to reach the knowledge of the Gods.

    Thank you for your lengthly response to me – I will write more about it later as I don’t have a lot of energy or time right now but I appreciate you addressing all my points. I do remember something from watching the first seven of Herff/Do’s videos – I don’t remember which one it came from, but he said “What you believe determines your reality after this life” in essence.(I am not quoting him exactly.)

    People get creeped out by cults because some of them especially the People’s Temple are indeed run by people who simply crave power. A study of Jim Jones’ life revealed that as early as age 5 he killed a cat. (The project named after Choronzon which I am part of along with a few fellow resonant persons is devoted to cats and the love of them, but not in any cutesy way, it genuinely intends to heal them and end their wanton abuse.) Love of cats and my human friends, and love of the xenodimensional called Choronzon bring light to my life, so I can understand that Ti and Do brought light to yours and to others. I can see it’s not the kind of group that tried to net up everyone in sight. Most cults are a lot like pyramid schemes (the model of the ‘network marketing’ you mentioned above) but this is one thing we have in common. I’m not trying to convert anyone to belief in Choronzon, or even in the more open idea of seeking out one’s own xenodimensional guide (which would work the same way what you call an ‘older member’ does, except in the levels beyond human the term “above” doesn’t fit, since hierarchies are more human-dimensionality based. Some of it just doesn’t translate to a 3D world. Entities influence one another and influence the 3D worlds but their interactive ways are less like a corporation and more like they are all colleagues under the forces of Order and Chaos, neither of which is ‘good’ or ‘evil’ in any absolute way. Oh dear, I can’t explain it all here except I will mention that Herff/Do used the garden metaphor a lot. To me, creation was more like a laboratory – the Creators didn’t always know what they were doing, or have a plan, it has always been evolving and mostly because they are curious.

    Since I don’t come from a religious background I don’t quote the Bible, but I have read it cover to cover three times in my life – once in my 20s, once in my 30s and once in my 40s, just to attempt to understand my fellow creatures who believe in it so adamantly. Here and there is a glimmer of light, but it’s so full of wrath, jealousy and death it baffles and bewilders me still.

    I will continue to read your blog especially the parts that aren’t biblical and listen to your broadcasts. Incidentally, the Choronzon project has a track called “Undergoing Overcoming” – I thought you might like that title. It’s on our album “New World Chaos”, in the second section – it was a two-part production that was done in 2005. It’s probably not your kind of music – we do very noisy stuff, but that just came to mind, and it is indeed about a process we all must go through to whatever degree and end we choose to.

    – D. Mesila T.

    • sawyer Says:

      good to hear your thoughts and feelings. I want to address two areas you mentioned. Yes Ti and Do use the garden analogy but actually not in a religious context but in a evolutionary biological and very experimental context. From day one of Ti and Do’s teachings they were very clear that the Next Level perform experiments and that they experiments are growing souls by offering options without pre-determining what choices they will make. Then when they make choices, the Next Level crew respond the same way a flower gardener does when they use a new fertilizer or pesticide and see the results and seek to continue to improve the experiment. (religion and spirituality are both filled with a mix of reality and misinformation, even disinformation, as a big part of the experiment is to put souls that had grown to become flowers according to their determination to further “testing” – providing those who ceased remaining connected to their “Family”, who offer what they, the renegades from their experiment believe and want. In so doing, each upcoming flower/soul has the choice to become exactly like the one they are not told is a renegade (but can come to see the differing characteristics of; namely lies, deceit, manipulations, etc.). It’s important to also consider that a “soul” is NOT the same as a “spirit”. A soul is a container that is literally deposited into/onto a human body that is determined to be a seeker of progress in their minds development, so they tend to explore avenues others fear or don’t bother with or are too upsetting to consider.

      The other point is regarding heirarchy. In the next level there is not a heirarchy as in the human kingdom that’s based on who can grab more power, fame, fortune, influence to lead and manipulate others to their worthy agenda. In the next level heirarchy doesn’t exist. It just is because some simply know more, have more experience, have grown to have a larger and denser MIND and the added function that such includes. Ti and Do said, a younger member would recognize who is an Older Member but not by any visual means. They will just feel it. Do came to recognize Ti as his Older Member not because Ti said anything or even implied anything but because in working with her day in and day out for months he saw how quickly she saw through putting their efforts into certain things whether it was in thinking or which way to drive to do what aspect of their task of starting to share with people who they knew themselves to be. He said he gave Ti a real hard time for quite a while before they had their first meeting in Los Angeles in 1975. By then he knew she was his Older Member.

      I am mainly tackling bible material because it has become so distorted and christians at least who say they believe in Jesus need to be faced with the truth about Jesus, that is if they choose to look to grow further. But the bible isn’t one book and so everything in it is certainly not evidence of Next Level preferences of behavior and ways and it is largely portrayed in ways the humans that did the translations chose to portray things. I will address this at a future radio/video broadcast.

    • sawyer Says:

      In terms of music, I can enjoy just about any music to a point. I mean, I never choose to listen to classical but sometimes enjoy it when it’s on or it works as background. I grew up with mostly rock as I’m 62 now. I was a dead head before that term existed and I like some of my daughters heavy metal stuff. Sadly I even like my daughters pop and of course rap and punk and contemporary jazz, world, reggae, etc. I play with all of these with various bands when I get the chance which is not often as I live in a very rural mountainous area and though people generally respect my musicality I’ve opened my mouth far too often about my beliefs and connection to heaven’s gate so people fear I’m out to suck them in. Because of that few musicians ever accept my invitations to play gigs or to allow me to sit in with them, unless I go to their gig. Most people don’t have a clue how controlled we can be by the spirit world – the dead humans and dead human equivalent space aliens that tell us stuff that we then think are our thoughts. As soon as I attract positive attention from anyone the discarnates that know what I believe in venture to turn people against me. If I haven’t shared my beliefs with them, it can work for a while but then they will just come up with reasons why they aren’t attracted to me anymore, both on physical and mental/musical levels. I’m not looking for physical relationships anyway and not even looking for any relationships (except at times for musical cohorts). It’s amazing how plain it is. I could tell many stories, as I have already done a little bit of in my recent comments. Ti once showed me the main discarnate who is my advasary. This took place maybe 5 years ago, since having reinstigated wanting to be of service to Ti and Do some years before that. I saw them in my house in several different ways. One night I was dreaming of Ti, the third time Ti was in my dreams (neither Ti nor Do were ever in my dreams while I was in their group. It only started after I went public with what I knew about them after they laid their bodies down in 1997). So I was dreaming that Ti was talking to me and I awoke and sat up on the edge of my bed and was aware of the little led lights in the room and a tiny bit of moon/star light. I was sitting there trying to remember what Ti was saying as it seemed very significant and I could feel the memory slipping away. Then what looked like a being the size of a child with a black sheet over their head, so only the shape of a head and shoulders was apparant glided by me and down the hall, a 2-3 second visual. I sat there a couple seconds and wondered what that was. I thought, was that one of the girls as my daughter was upstairs in bed and so was her step sister. That was strange to think as they have a bathroom upstairs. Anyway, I stood up and walked to the bottom of the staircase to their rooms and tried to see if there was any activity and there was none so I turned on the lights and went down the hall towards where the entity was headed and started to feel spooked. The hair stood up on the back of my neck so to speak and I noticed the basement door was open something that is never the case. I am anal about closing doors. I wondered if the entity went down there and at that point didn’t want to find out by going down there. As a kids, as many I feared the dark and basements and coat closets that looked like people in the closet. I had a lot of wierd experiences growing up but nothing that stood out as proof. Before this event I had no such proof though did have some circumstantial proves. One time I with two members of the “cult” were bedding down in our tent while living outdoors in wyoming in 1976 and we were joking around a bit talking about discarnates and all three of us became overwhelmed by a vibration that was very ominous and fearful to experience. It frightened the hell out of us, so we stopped talking about “them” and recognized that reality more than before. I had believed in such things before then. It just always made sense to me. But after this experience I had another very blatent one that I described in my blog post on sawyer’s story I believe so I won’t bore you with it now if you have already read it.

      So send me a link to your music if you like. Most of my music that I’ve posted as Sawyer is available on my youtube channel 3spm. The first 6 or so video’s I did were strictly words on the screen while music played and it was music I either did solo, overlaying tracks or in one case from a live recording of one of my early bands that flopped soon thereafter and some with backup tracks from people I’ve played with. Most of it is flute with some harmonica and percussion. Then on my 3spm site the opening video is a music video with one of my creations in a type of reggae uplifting style.

  3. mesila thraam Says:

    I like 3spm – it harkens to my hippie roots, something that is always going to be part of me. http://choronzon.org is the project site, and http://choronzon.info/grinnoire is an archive of esoteric writings of mine and also those of other persons who have dealt with the entity Choronzon. Not all of it will resonate with what you are doing. There is some sexual content, especially the material I did in the earlier years before Nature turned the full charge off when I reached a certain age at which time this happens to women (and this used to bother me a lot more than it does now – I have come to accept the fact that the human body reproductive system works this way and I never reproduced because I did not believe it would be a good idea, so I have no regrets on that count. But after I lost my human lover in the middle of the last decade I would give that energy to Choronzon, both entity and the project named after it. Now I explore other avenues relating to a different aspect of what we call the ‘current’. The music is noisy and industrial – if that’s not your bag, you might find it disturbing. The production we are working on this year will have more soothing elements in it because half of it is literally intended to heal victims of human abuse and neglect. (The other half expresses judgment rained upon the perpetrators, so it’s the flip side.)

    You might want to check out the “New World Chaos” link on the ,org site – there’s a track on that album, on the first half of it (“Complicity Simplexity”) called “Undergoing Overcoming”. It was my favourite track on the album. (I know your ‘cult’ was once called Total Overcomers Anonymous but I didn’t know this when I made the track with my collaborative partner, P, Emerson Williams.)

    One thing that occurred to me thinking about your story and your life is that giving up human attachments would be automatically easier if you had a communal family like you and the other -odys had along with Herff/Do to inspire them. I spent my younger adult years up to the time I was about 26 living in communes and have fond memories of those years – of course, they were very different than yours. I used to do a lot of drugs but Choronzon put the kibosh on that as they say, by making them just completely fail to have affect on me OVERNIGHT, one by one, and now only the holy molecule (the psychedelic) is allowed, for the yearly holy day transmission – though this cannot even be, usually, because availability has been taken from me by the forces that are against us having greater minds and want to hoard all that for their own evil uses…The first time that happened to me in 1993 was my first knowing that Choronzon wasn’t just my imagination – I couldn’t have made my mind do that all by myself. At any rate, I was referring to communal families. It’s hard to imagine a solo seeker giving up all attachment to this world while still on/in it and it being healthy. It may have been healthier for the -odys – I studied their exit videos carefully for signs of coercion and did not see it, though some of them were more enthusiastic than others. I am sure part of you misses them even though the overall feeling that their free will was to end earthly life and if your belief is that you will meet them again when it is your turn that must make it easier. Some of them were just brimming with life – Srrody comes to mind – excited about what they believed they were going to, while others seemed to be leaving because there was “nothing left here on earth for me”.

    I will want control of when my life ends as I have a terminal disease which has not manifested yet but it will, though by never having a taste for drink, and because of Choronzon’s effect on me, I’ve been able to stave it off. When my time comes I will go to the sea of electric charge fearlessly and with dignity and divinity, and while I am alive, do my best to live by the law of Love and avoid getting too wrapped up in the game-self any more than I absolutely must to survive.

    Will be in touch if I think of any other questions to ask you. Don’t let the naysayers get you down. Some people literally have nothing else they seem to get anything out of doing than assaulting anything that doesn’t make sense to their rigid systems of understanding.

    • sawyer Says:

      I will check out the sites you posted and the music. I agree that being in the classroom made it easier to overcome, that is “at first”, but over the years it became increasingly harder, for obvious reasons, though I can see how it was part of the strategy of the Next Level Above Human in overseeing their Two hands on, aka undercover (occupying ordinary human vehicle) representatives. This is because the tests got harder as the influences (discarnates and especially the ones actually assigned to each student, from among the Fallen Angel discarnates, who by their own desire sought to influence them away from their overcoming and bonding with the incarnate Older Members because each’s “advasary” (satan). They, the advasaries were not permitted constant bombardment of the student they were allowed to bombard with their mind. This way a student would recognize their gains but if they got overconfident and dropped the guards they had learned to put up, they would faulter and that would stimulate further gains. Gain wasn’t really seen as being 100% in charge of our brain’s thoughts and actions – it was reaching for 100% and not believing it out of reach. Ti and Do were constantly being led to say and do things that put people to the test in a number of ways at the same time, even seemingly trivial things because major tests. I remember one night when a classmate had a big problem – but I can’t recall the actual problem – perhaps sickness, but a number of students got up and I was among them and I went to help and the females who were required to wear a bra were not required to wear one to sleep, was leaning over and I could see her breasts and it was nearly an instant excitement (yet not an orgasm, though I did experience that from thoughts alone, part of what I experienced that led to my leaving them as I have reported) and that image thereafter was very, very hard to abort but I managed. Then years into the classroom, Ti and Do, who would send us to the movies they would review ahead of time, told us there were a couple brief nude scenes in this or that movie. I can hear Ti saying, “now this is a test to see if you can handle it as a member of the Next Level”. You see, they didn’t just spring it on us. They gave us the chance to know it was coming and to choose how we wanted to deal with it. To some who had already overcome their sensuality, though had other areas that still needed work, even though while human they might look at a female breast with awe and desire, they as Do said about himself that he got about as much desire from it as looking at a “grapefruit” (and not talking about hunger) but sensual stimulus. (not saying that food doesn’t stimulate sensuality as well and in more than one way – it certainly does and Ti and Do said the entire digestive system has a part in stimulating sexuality, which reminds me of the adam/eve story that was not just a story according to Ti and Do. It was the start of the TEST – that would be offered to all those that received a degree of Next Level tasks, as the ones who had fallen away had received, to see if they could overcome the fallen one’s influence on them, that would then propel them closer to their own graduation into Next Level vehicles that no longer can fall away as they would have no human systems to reverse metamorphosis back to a Caterpillar. I have many, many examples of how the classroom became increasingly hard to qualify to stay in. At one point Do even offered any student who had any consideration of leaving $1,000.00 because as he said, he knew life in that communal setting in the sense of day to day life was very satisfying to some. Critics would say Do was feeling guilty so was looking to get out of it gracefully by such an offer, but I saw first hand, as I was privy to the so called inner circle for the last few years and it pained him a great deal to see anyone leave but he still had to fulfill his task of putting some to the tests he was given to provide, not even knowing what kind of test it might be and not even knowing to whom it might apply exactly, that is until after the test passed and he got notes from students or recognized their vibration change in their countenance, etc. When one gets rid of various discarnate influences they do become more and more childlike – no protections or ego centrist projections of power or self importance in any way. And yet, neither Ti nor Do tried to “read” anyone. They took us for what we said, didn’t say, did or did not do in response to the lesson steps they would bring.

      There was a person who was just recently listening to all the audio tapes and bringing me questions as they would occur to him and with his questions criticisms as well. He thought because he listened to the tapes he was seeing all there was to see in them and found them to be so ordinary and not evidence of any greater being though liked Ti and Do and thought they were nice people, if I recall correctly what he relay to me over countless comments. I applaud him for putting out that effort as so few are willing to do that. But even though I was there for all those tapes, when he would bring things up I saw how much I missed while I was there. Now, I’m not saying this to reflect on you at all. you could be someone who would see on first take all the things I only saw now. There is no way to measure that with each of us. I’m just bringing it up because of how much was going on in the delivery of “tests” even in casual seeming conversations about how one should knead the bread in the yeast lab, a lesson I got from Ti as I was gruff with the dough, for example. Being gruff was one of the areas I needed to work on. For some it was being quite in walking or talking or talking more or talking less and it wasn’t entirely about that characteristic. It was both the characteristic that by controlling put us in control of our vehicles but also about being willing and trying hard to follow instructions so we could be trusted with more important tasks upon graduation into a Next Level task environment where minor deviations from the way some things were done could have major ramifications that the Older Members would then have to patch up. Of course they do patch them up but they don’t put people into tasks until they are confident they have the capacity to rise to perform that task and part of that entails knowing what is part of the task and what needs more clarification before proceeding on. That was all a huge part of the classroom that came out in every day tasks.

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