Sawyer’s responses about laying down life, leaving loved ones, value of analyzing prophecy and more

Here is a comment and my responses:

Comment:

I somehow don’t think we’re supposed to lay down our vehicles before they stop working – we were provided with them (I think you would say) to serve, so ducking out on that before it’s time just doesn’t seem right…but hanging on to them after they’ve all but ceased to function is not right either. I believe in Love and when we have other people in our lives who either depend on us or who share Love with us (I don’t mean sex here I mean LOVE) I don’t see how our souls would be ready yet for what you are talking about. (Perhaps the 39 in Rancho Santa Fe were ready, although some of them looked pretty young, we outside don’t know all the facts.) I just know that I’m not ready yet but when the time comes I don’t want to be kept alive on machines to be a useless vegetable. I do know within myself my purpose was different than to be on the crew of a space ship, but being recycled into Creation is something there is need for just as much, and to me, that is just as divine. I don’t want to live forever – I’ll leave that to those who do. On another note, I think we all know the earth can’t go on as it is too much longer so I don’t get the value in micro-analyzing scripture etcetera for clues that these are the end times. If that is so would not we benefit far more by using our brains to think of what to do with the time we have left?

Sawyer’s responses:

I couldn’t agree with you more on most of your points applied to you. Even in 1975 Ti and Do told some they didn’t think they were ready to join with them. Rio was the last to leave them a few weeks before they exited. He told Do he felt he had something else he needed to do in the world but loved Do and his fellow students. Do checked silently with Ti (who had exited by “natural conditions” in 1985) and hours later went back to rio and told him, he should leave and he could have service still, so he was given the task of first finding them.

We certainly are not serving God (Next Level) by exiting our vehicles unless we know it’s what we want to do and we are not doing it for ourselves. In fact, the reason I did not exit with them was because, though I was ready to lay down my life, (as we talked about it seriously before I left them) I was still of a mindset after 19 years with them that was thinking in a spiritual way about martyrdom being heroic even though Ti and Do always said it wasn’t a “martyrdom trip”. The purpose was not to die. The purpose was to overcome our humanity and die to it’s root systems to bond with a new family. That wasn’t death because it was knowing that it was only the vehicle that was going to die. I can’t recall Jesus ever speaking of “life” as the vehicle’s life just like he also said he’d come to sever the roots of his students to their human families, something one never hears anything about in the many churches I’ve attended and the many sermons I’ve read and heard and seen posted.

Sure if we are only these bodies then volunteering to lose that body is practically worthless. But if we have a soul that survives death of the body then losing the body is perfectly natural, but again should never be done on purpose unless, like you said, your body ceased to function or you were performing a service to your idea of God, which by the way would NEVER be to kill or harm others in the process. That is a clear case of murder to do.

But the point to micro-analyzing scripture goes way beyond clues that we are in the end times. Most don’t need those clues to see the signs. It’s because the end time is a time of “judgement”. We must each DECIDE to whom we want to show our allegiance to, like Jesus said, whether to God or Mammon. Now millons would say if asked that they do give their allegiance to God. And that’s fine, but Christians in particular were genetically prepared to learn the whole truth about God and that can not be found anymore in scripture without analyzing it, though analysis alone still doesn’t reveal the full truthes and reality of God UNLESS one is willing to look at those scriptures with a new set of eyes. Until this time, no one was ultimately responsible for not seeing that full truth. The Father and Jesus had instructed that truth to be shut up/sealed until the time of the 7th angel’s sounding. I can’t prove to anyone that the 7th angel has sounded and is currently sounding unless I can show that the previous 6 angels have already sounded which means I’ve got to provide proves that the 6th angel, that includes the Two Witnesses has sounded.

Many Christians hold views in every which way one can imagine of interpreting the book of Revelations and Jesus prophecy and incarnate mission and what’s so fantastic about scripture, the Lord wants them to choose what they want to believe it says because that’s “free will”. The entire reason the fallen angels were allowed to come out of the bottomless pit in the 1940’s to 1950’s (primarily) is the same reason there was a one performing their own chosen function as a tempter to Adam and Eve and also to Jesus and his disciples. It’s was to test them and in turn demonstrate those sames tests to all of us. There is no right answer that is automatically identical for everyone at the same time because we are each applying or not to a different grade in the overall school created by the Next Level. However, those who were brought up with a belief in Jesus had a different standard the Lord measures them against. As jesus said, “to those that much is given much is required” just like in a human school. The Next Level Older Members (Father and Jesus) and firstfruit (saints) crew are doing the final sorting task which each of us are our own decider of. They provide the opportunity and then as we die, our choices show them into which “grade” in school our soul body or spirit is to be saved. Thus we judge ourselves and then the Next Level implements that choice and all who don’t choose when they had the opportunity to choose are recycled, as it says in the “lake of fire”, the second death, the death of a soul that has not occurred since the start of this latest civilizational experiment.

I don’t think anybody at this time is seen by the Lord as ready to “lay down their life” as Ti did in her way, and Do and 42 students did in their way.

But the “process” needs to be provided as that is one of the ways that becomes a “sign” to future potential students of an incarnate Older member. That representative will always teach that the objective is to give all your heart, all your mind, all your soul and all your strength to the Lord, to Jehovah, to the Father, to Ti and all importantly through whoever they anoint/appoint to be our in the flesh parent/teacher, i.e. Adam, Enoch, Moses, Elijah, Jesus and then Do but with a new name with each taking over of a human flesh vehicle. At that future time then, the representative will make their presence known and the genetic strain would be prepared to receive returning Souls and some will be ahead of others and they will quickly identify the characteristics of Next Level teachings while others will take more time to move into that same degree of recognition. It’s not a competition at all but nor is it like joining a country club to where one can be on again and off again and expect to reap the prize.

This brings me to your statement of not wanting to live forever and as to what you feel is your purpose and it’s perfect to be in that place. It’s not like the Next Level is holding a carrot in front of the racing rabbit to motivate it. I can’t recall that kind of motivation anywhere in what Moses wrote nor what Jesus was recorded to have said and that includes my 19 years with Ti and Do. When they told me(us) that life was real in the Next Level. It wasn’t sitting around on a cloud strumming a harp, I was not heart broken or in dismay hearing that. And when they said members work in laboratories on spacecrafts in crews, performing a myriad of tasks that are challenging, I didn’t brighten up to think, “oh boy I want to do that”. No, it was kind of foreign. Even knowing that they don’t have disease or wars or hatreds or death were not motivations. I don’t think in terms now of wanting to live forever either. However when I’ve faced what I thought was a deadly disease or deadly circumstance I certainly did not want to die and even fear death and fear pain and fear discomfort, which is all really my human vehicle talking loudest as the soul doesn’t fear any of those things in the least because the soul only contains information and a type of programming provided as a gift that knows when the body dies, they don’t. Yet that’s not a motivation to lay down my life because my vehicle actually likes living even though I’m old and not seeking a partner/lover/wife nor trying to become someone special in some respect relative to the world’s endeavours. I say that as if I’m washed up or have given up on progressing in a human way, but that’s not actually the case. The truth is that I never felt motivated to play all the games that are absolutely required to play to be successful as a human. Even after I left the group and had no inclination to stay in touch with them though I was given the chance, I couldn’t bring myself to play by the rules for success. For instance, go to school, get the degree that gives credibility for instance is one. However I did try a legitimate network marketing endeavour selling health promoting blue green algae products. However as it was network marketing, mostly testimonial driven word of mouth advertising with a huge push to draw “business builders” which entailed learning how to “fake it until you make it”. Thus I was expected by my upline to present my success as a business builder to my downline and future business builders that included a business plan and setting goals of how much money I wanted to make by when, on and on, attending seminars, dressing for success, and it seemed so phony I would have no part of it. I tried. I would go to the supermarket and would look to start up conversations about the algae. Everyone became a prospect and of course it was to “help them with their health that they needed”. which actually I did believe in and to this day use some of the products on occasion because I do think they are healthy food supplements. But I hated meeting people and in a sense only seeing them as a new product user or potential business builder. In a very real sense it was the same as proselytizing religion or Jesus and feeling like we done good if we got a new convert – “we saved another soul for god”. I now know well that that’s not the way it works. So in the business, I would tell people where they could get a similar product cheaper and before long having run out of family and friends to peddle to my income was not meeting my expenses so I threw in the towel where had I been motivated for success I would have just escalated more into mailing lists and internet advertising, etc like others I knew had done and were getting the big checks from.

I could tell more stories of how I could have been a rock star or rock star backup band player at least as I’m a musician, but the opportunity came to me right after I hooked up with a woman (as what became a common law “marriage” commitment) and we decided if it was meant to be we would have a child together, which happened nearly immediately when we decided that. My daughter was about 4 years old when I started playing music with rock star, Ritchie Blackmore formally of Deep purple the “smoke on the water” guitarist and he invited me to play with him and became friends, when to his house for parties and he told me he had considered flying me to England for a photo shoot in a castle because he needed a drummer. He told me I was the best hand drummer he knew and this was after a nearly 19 year hiatus from drumming. I had a good job at the time, a lease for a house, a “wife” and a baby, but in a sense this was my dream before I joined Ti and Do in 1975 when I was playing with bands. And I suppose my wife would have said okay and perhaps I could have taken some time off for gigs but it just seemed wrong as I had new commitments and responsibilities.

Then I had a clear book deal on my experience with the heaven’s gate story. I was being courted by several big publishing houses in NYC as I had been on 60 minutes and Larry King and all the network morning shows and many radio and print media interviews with time and Newsweek magazine, etc. But a couple months after the heaven’s gate story had begun to die down the publishers who had accepted my publicist presentation of a book deal dropped me like a hot potato saying the public wasn’t interested. Then the NY Post printed a paperback about the group that was simply a compilation of news stories filled with inaccuracies. I decided to drop the book idea. But had I been business motivated, I would have wrote it as if I had escaped the dreaded suicide cult and I would have raked in a bundle I’m sure. But as I still believed everything about Ti and Do while not wanting to be with them while raising a family, telling the truth of my belief/experience was told to me several times “won’t sell”.

And there is plenty more on this… I’m not driven by anything practical nor tangible nor human. When I joined I was more or less happy. I was building my own house out of logs I harvested on some land of my friends on the Waldport, Oregon coast, I had taken my common law wife back from an affair she had, forgiving her though it had broke my heart some but I had recovered by the time the guy dumped her. And I was playing music regularly and was gaining popularity and the leads singer/songwriter ended up hitting it repetitively big after I left which he and I being on best of terms would have included me, opening for Bob Weir in the Portand Colosseum. We had a small commune happening between three couples. Not really wild in any way, but growing our own food and it was promising when Ti and Do as Peep and Bo came to town and though I had been exploring with many spiritual groups and had lived with jesus freaks some and was always being courted by Hare Krishna’s and this and that guru’s disciples, nothing drew me. But on that little poster it said, “this has meant so much to some that they are giving their all to this endeavor” and it’s like those were magic words…”give my all” (to God). Priesthood was on my mind when 13 yrs old but I don’t know why. Looking back it probably would have been a trap as once we invest in that kind of commitment it becomes increasingly hard to break away especially after we get a job and have a congregation, etc. But break away one must as the formula is when meeting up with the one you know to be your Older Member, you need to leave all behind to be with them 24/7. It’s the beginning of separating from our entire human existence that must also entail “giving our physical body to” but in the case of now, since the Older Members are not incarnate any longer, there is no chance of a personal relationship with the Older Members in the flesh, eye to eye, so the best we can do is to give our all by asking them to give us service and then taking the task they spoke of before they left that they published to spread their information far and wide and accept the ramifications of doing so which may be met with hatred and fear so much so that we may end up giving our physical bodies to Their service just like happened after Jesus left.

I have zero desire to attract that kind of hatred but it must be.

I can not imagine having the experience I have and not sharing it but I am not doing it for any carrot in the sky. I’m doing it because I can’t not.

If you feel that about something in your life from here on out, you will know what I am talking about. I don’t need or want anyone to approve or disapprove of Ti and Do. But to not provide people with the truth about what Jesus was all about by not providing the options of translation and interpretation of prophecy that can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that they have already returned as Ti and Do and crew would be like killing myself.

I hope that answered your questions or addressed your beliefs and concerns. In a sense the more people that take to heart what Ti and Do taught the more danger I am in. That’s why I say often that I am not recruiting. There is NO new cult. I am not promoting suicide but rather believe we need our physical bodies more than ever now and I am not anyone’s teacher, Ti and Do are and answer to those names right now. I have no organization and have refused to create one and have refused to be a leader and have refused to start a new church and want/need no donations, have nothing to sell and don’t thrive on finding believers, get no sense of accomplishment from someone saying to me they believe in Ti and Do. I am working for Ti and Do and to that I have no doubt as I have had many proves.

Anyone that does share information about Ti and Do can expect a backlash from the unseen world of the lower forces. I have people around me that know what I believe and count me as their friend but to whom I rarely say anything to about Ti and Do. And in public in my own area I say little because if I do encounter someone with the thirst to want to know more, if they ask more I’ll share more, but even though that can seem to be genuine it is often a setup to then be used against us. However that’s the chance we take when we share anything with anyone as it’s so beyond human, at best it needs to be provided to people in small doses according to their thirst for more. Christian leaders are unlikely to change their minds and will mostly see those like myself as heretics and they will tend to justify any means to shut up as we say with the religious 2000 years ago.

The age of the vehicle doesn’t automatically reflect the content of that vehicles spirit (programming from experience from generations before). Each of us is like a leaf off a branch on the human genetic tree. Each leaf by it’s experiences feeds that experience into the branch/trees trunk. When a new leaf is generated, it has with it all previous experience in it’s subconscious mind. Experience alone does not equate to wisdom. It’s just like data. As we go through life, our choices determine much of our experience; who to believe in or not, what we like to do or not, what kinds of thoughts we allow ourselves to entertain, etc. The content of our mind is who we are and that content is set up for us from birth as a propensity in a number of directions, but as we grow more independent from our root system (parents, etc.) and are exposed to more of the world and varied views, we begin to shape our mind by what we gravitate to in thinking and acting. Ti and Do always said that it’s not about what you get into in the human kingdom – it’s what you get out of. In other words we can become entrenched in any number of ways of thinking and acting. When Next Level members come along, to gravitate to them means disconnecting from it all and putting faith in them even though we won’t know what that means. We can be fooled but as long as we keep asking for help to make the right choices by projecting our asking as far from the planet as we can imagine so the space aliens and/or spirits can’t intercept and try to play “god” or “jesus”, which many try to do because they lived thinking they were representatives of Jesus and/or God to others, as priests, etc. Then if we choose a path that is not in our best interest in terms of what the One True Older Members would have us do, we will recognize it seek to change direction. I bet you many who ended up killing themselves in Jones town had many signals that Jim Jones was not someone to follow. For anyone that studies that story, they will see that he was very, very manipulative and abusive and controlling and condescending, etc. all signs. He had organized a number of those staged suicides and didn’t tell anyone they were practice and the group apparently did go along with it and no one died so by the time it occurred the last time, they had the idea that it wasn’t going to be real. Plus many were murdered with children involved. Ti and Do didn’t allow children saying they could not decide to overcome what they hadn’t yet experienced any of and were not mature enough to make a choice of giving their all and couldn’t participate as an extension of their parents. That’s another form of manipulation of the children. Notice Jesus and his disciples didn’t have children with them, nor wives/husbands anymore. However Jim Jones did say and implied as well that he was Jesus so why would he have a motis operandi that was totally different. Even though Jesus updated some of what Moses said, his updates lended to more civility and love among one another while bringing increased standards to optionally follow. Adultery became even lusting for someone while married. Making self a eunuch for the Kingdom of Heaven was for those that could receive it, forgiveness of the prostitute a more advanced behavior, forgiving 70 times 7 times instead of 7 times, just a say of saying that forgiveness was unlimited. What Ti and Do said about the younger classmates who joined mostly during the 1994 2nd public face to face meeting schedule around the U.S. and Canada, was that the previous classmates who had been in the class for 18 or so years by then had laid the groundwork that these newer members could benefit from. Do also said that some in the group would not be ready to receive a new Next Level (adult) body because they would still need more lessons in the human kingdom at a future date. (I believe they will still be awarded a new vehicle. It just won’t be one that is incapable of regressing back into human behaviors. It would be a vehicle something like the ones the “watchers” had I would guess as they were not incorruptible vehicles or they couldn’t have mated with mortal women. A mortal is a person that was not given a Next Level deposit, the “seed” Jesus spoke of and also the new wineskin Jesus spoke of.

Regarding love and having those in our lives that give us love and take our love – depend on us:

At this time there was no instruction from Do I am aware of to leave those we love and who depend on us. That is required when the Older Member in incarnate and we recognize him and choose to be in his program. And by the way we can leave that program at any time and go back to those we love. And that’s not to say when we do leave those we love we do it carelessly. When it was said that two children were abandoned so the parents could join with Bo and Peep, the names they used in 1975, when they found out, they said, they would certainly not abandon children. They did say in the first meetings they gave in every city where they spoke that “children could not come” and I remember a lady shouting out from the back of the room, “you ought to be shot”. They also said that spouses would not remain married and that family relationships would not remain family relationships. With the exception of children, they said that spouses could both choose to come. They simply would no longer function as spouses. I joined with my spouse and it was difficult. We were in different groups at first but about a year into the group we all lived in the same camp (in the wilderness of Wyoming and Texas). Of course they also said there was no sex or drugs or alcohol and did not approve of leaving “aces in the hole” – in other words not getting rid of something in case this didn’t work out. I believe if we felt to leave an ace in the whole, perhaps we weren’t ready to take this step. As it turned out regarding the two young children, the mother arranged for the kids to be with their real dad who lived nearby. I knew all involved personally. They were all my close friends at the time so know this was what happened. Now with that said, I have had to deal with knowing that I would have to leave my daughter eventually. She is nearly 17 now but it still hurts to think about having to leave her, though she would have her mother and her mothers very nice new boyfriend to live with/get support from. I only say this because I do anticipate a time within the next few years when being an outright supporter of Ti and Do will be seen as holding up a sign saying, “heratic” and I know though I use an alias name it would be easy to track me to where I used to live that could lead to where I currently live so for me to choose to live with my daughter would put her in harms way, which I could not do so would sacrifice my being as close to her as I’d otherwise like to be. Plus I also expect that some of my open talk about the Next level will be curtailed in the future and I can’t imagine not continuing until I die to tell about Ti and Do, so that would mean I’d have to go on the road to distribute the books I’ve written, soon to be published. Right now the internet afford the greatest exposure and being in person is far more dangerous and undesirable until it’s necessary. I’ve already experienced backlash when I have sought out pastors of churches where I’ve traveled to over the years. I’m nearly thrown out even if I don’t bring up Ti and Do exactly. Most churches are very comfortable with their ways of thinking and don’t want anyone messing with that security they feel. It is very easy to mess with it when one dissect what Jesus said by re-translating every word. All of a sudden “rapture” makes zero sense. Family values though still may be appropriate to live by as like I said everyone is not in the same place at the same time, but are not something Jesus spoke highly of if at all. In fact he denied his mother and brother were his mother and brother instead saying that fellow believers were now his only family members.

In case it wasn’t clear. I don’t think there is a good reason for anyone at this time to “kill themselves” as even if they think they are doing so for God, they can be tricked. None of us are where Ti and Do’s students were at. We need our vehicles to learn the lessons we still need to learn no matter how hard it is to live, which I know for some can seem or be very, very hard. No one who kills themselves at this time escapes anything. They end up in the spirit world vibrating the same hatred of others and/or themselves they had when they killed themselves and that can influence others to do likewise when the going get’s tough. I remember when I was a teenager and my parents would ground me or punish me I wanted to get them back and show them how much it hurt me to be grounded so I took a sharp pen cap and slashed at my wrists but it only put in minor scratches. I knew I couldn’t really inflict that on myself. But some young people these days don’t stop themselves, or just throw caution to the wind and will take a bunch of pills or something. That is just giving into the lower forces, evil spirits, etc. who make points no matter what reason someone has to kill themselves. Thus I could probably be a great suicide hotline worker as strange as that sounds. Believing in the real Jesus which is the same as believing in the real Ti and Do is not about escape. It’s about dealing and discarding all negativity while making one’s eye more and more single minded with our communications to our Heavenly Father’s in the very distant heavens or if we believe in Ti and Do by calling on their names for help with any circumstance and waiting while knowing they will provide help you will have a sense came from them. They will not come to you in a vision or as a voice in your head. And they will never tell you what to do or steer you to hurt yourself of anyone else.

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4 Responses to “Sawyer’s responses about laying down life, leaving loved ones, value of analyzing prophecy and more”

  1. mesilathraam221 Says:

    (If this comment was already left you can purge this one – I think WordPress got my passwords mixed up)

    The above reminded me that there was a question I wanted to ask you about Rio – I think it was on crlody’s page that I saw he was going by the name NEODY and that got me to wonder: Was he given that name prior to 1997, by Herff/Do, or did he pick that up later? And do you think he’s legit? I noticed on Amazon his book sells for $50.00 – that’s a lot of ‘sticks’, especially for a poor hippie like me…The name Neody sounds like it was ripped off from the movie “The Matrix” (a great film) and since Neo was the lead heroic character it doesn’t seem like Rio has much humility if he chose that name. He sounded very devoted on the HG documentary from the BBC, But that was made a long time ago…and all I see from him now is a really expensive book, nothing offered for free on the internet, so I have my suspicions about him. But you must have known him better so what would you say? If you want to answer anything in private btw you can send it to my email at mesila@choronzon.org

    BTW I listened to all the recordings of Bonnie/Ti and Herff/Do and the -odys from the ’80’s and ’90s at crlody’s site (They are linked to, there) and they are really fascinating, and give a clearer picture of what life was like in this group.

    • sawyer Says:

      Neody chose the name in 1994 when he joined during the second face to face offering of Ti and Do’s information as performed exclusively by the student body (except for the use of the beyond human tapes at some meetings). I don’t know how he picked it. I think it’s unfortunate that his book is so expensive. There are some good points in it that I will try to do a broadcast about. As you probably read/heard from Carlan’s site, which I still need to visit – feel stupid for not having done so by now, Rio has done things that both carlan and I agree might not be what Ti and Do might be pleased with in terms of what he has said and done publically. However with that said, I’m not sure Ti and Do are pleased with me in a number of respects as well and Carlan also has his own issues as do we all, so I’m not about to critique Neody except to say that at last contact with him about 6 months ago he told me via email that he is “done” with having anything to do with the group and the information feeling he did his part with the book, etc. That’s his choice and if he changes that view he certainly doesn’t answer to me or anyone else but Ti and Do (if he chooses to answer to them).

  2. mesilathraam221 Says:

    PS: I do think it was good that the group did not include children, I wish the very best to your daughter and I am glad you are looking out for her welfare.

    On another note entirely, when I say ‘Herff/Do’ I’ve used the ‘he’ pronoun but if referring to Ti or Do as they would purportedly exist now, I assume the proper pronoun is ‘it’? (Since the ‘Next Level’ creatures have no gender?)

    D. Mesila T.

    • sawyer Says:

      That’s funny…Ti and Do are not “it’s”. They are people. I think Do would have us use the pronouns that go with the gender of the vehicles they last wore while incarnate. I think I have evidence of that but am not going to try to justify it, but if their is any question just use their name over and over again instead of a pronoun. Sometimes I do that.

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