Comments against Ti and Do and their teachings and Sawyer’s responses

Here are my responses to a avid follower of my posts who is critical of most everything Ti and Do taught and that I post in their favor. I don’t have a problem with his criticism though at times it has been trying to deal with as it can be so lacking of evidence except in his opinions. So this time since his statements may reflect many others now or to come I tried to provide comments on the main points in his latest comment.

1) You said “if there is a cosmic truth to existence that we can know, then it would be something we can arrive at ourselves… I shouldn’t have to have stumbled upon some random cult leader to ascertain that truth”.

How else do we get ANY information except by “stumbling” upon it, whether in school where we are stumbled into whether we like it or not or by society if we have the least amount of curiosity. Please tell me what about this response to your statement doesn’t have some common sense to it. We don’t learn or do anything by ourselves. It seems impossible relative to human existence as I see it now.

2) You said “I know how you’ll answer this, but what if you had lived your whole life in Vera Cruz, Mexico? You would have never seen, heard of, or given a crap about H & BL. Your answer will be that it was inevitable you’d meet them because.”

You are both right and wrong about this in my opinion. No matter where in the world I lived how can you even suggest it would not be possible to become aware of something that became national news in the U.S. and affiliates and also international news or for the international people that got far less exposure by having reason to migrate to where the news was more apparant, like all the migrants from Mexico for instance. One classmate was going to school in Corvalis from Venezula. Others were from Edmonton, Canada. Another was from southeast asia and then of course most all of us were from many countries whose parents migrated to the biggest melting pot on earth, that is since our current history, seems safe to say. But if one believes in what Ti and Do said and that Jesus said, all his believers and those who were against him would be returning to the new area of the world because the Kingdom of God was being taken away from the middle east. So if that was true and if it was also true that the Kingdom of God plants “seeds” (deposits of their mind as a soul pocket) then those that get the seed are directed to be on the path where they can have the best access to the incoming trumpet blowing undercover operatives from the Next Level sent to gather those vehicles that received those seeds as Jesus said would happen.

3) you said, “They weren’t famous at all… an article or two, a book, but to the public they were nothing — I’d never heard of them until the suicides… people read the articles, but they were so ridiculous that nobody took them seriously.”

So the judge of whether or not they have anything to say that is legitimate is in your view only if they become “famous” in the way you believe in. Perhaps, they have to write a book that becomes a best seller or be on TV. Article or two??? How about thousands of articles in newspapers across the U.S. from 1975 to at least 1982. A grade B made for TV movie in 1982 that millions probably watched. How about the New York Times magazine section front cover and long article about Bo and Peep that had international exposure in 1976. How about National news on EVERY news station for at least a week or two of nightly coverage from Walter Cronkite from late September of 1975 to October of 1975. I assume there was plenty of talk on the radio at least on the news since it was on the wire services. How about Psychology Today in 1976. How about the fact that the FBI got involved due to thinking there was a link to cattle mutilations in the midwest? Then the books and chapters in books; There was the book “UFO Missionaries Extraordinary” by Brad Steiger and Hayden Hewes, two respected names in science fiction writing and UFO investigation respectively. Then how about over a hundred meetings in most every major U.S. City over a year’s time at Universities and in public libraries that some had accompanying newspaper advertising from april of 1975 to may of 1976. Each of those meetings had hundreds of posters plastered at most all book stores and new age centers and coops and health food stores and libraries and on telephone poles and in store windows in the vicinity of the towns/cities where the meetings were given that also involved talking to shop owners. Also the thousands of churches that were “tested” as at least 100 students trekked around the country seeking help with food and gas and shelter from those who said they were in service to the Lord. Many times that seeking of help resulted in conversations about Bo (Do) and Peep (Ti). There were also hundreds of parents and siblings and friends concerned who talked and some hired investigators (jwnody’s brother was a police officer who hired an investigator). Alxody’s vehicle’s mother formed a network of parents that were active in touch with the “cult awareness network”. There was more publicity that I didn’t know about. Plus the story wasn’t exactly run of the mill. 27 or more people left their lives behind that created a huge amount of talk in the towns where they were known that I can talk specifically about – to as reported rendezvous with a UFO to go to heaven (though they often left off the “heaven” part). Certainly when Cronkite came out to say, they were two texans and had been arrested and that Applewhite was a convicted felon, most put it out of their mind because it could not be possible that “He would come as a thief”, a curious coincidence of terms Ti and Do did nothing to fulfill in that way.

4.) you said, “What would you be now if you hadn’t met them? Maybe a Mount Shasta variety Buddhist? It would be something unusual because I think that is part of your gig.”

No, I don’t think I would have become a Buddhist. I did read up on such things. I didn’t join with the Maharishi Mehesh Yogi who had a regular recruitment in NYC because I would have had to stop smoking pot and I was 17 at that time and really liked my pot. I was fond of many of the spiritual books in 1968-1972 but I moved to British Columbia from NY to homestead but got deported for a stupid slip up on my part as I was living in Canada illegally. So I stayed with “Jesus freaks” in Yakima and they tried to convince me of what they believed and I told them there was too much in scripture that seemed “contradictory”, though I always thought Jesus was a hero though hated the Catholic church ways I experienced so ditched any membership in such an organization. Then when my friends were getting into meditation in Newport, Oregon in 1972 I tried it and would always fall asleep and so was bored. Then when one of my music buddies became a disciple of Sri Chin Moy and wanted me and my girlfriend to meditate with him on his guru’s picture I tried it and it felt weird to be looking at this indian fellow as someone to follow. I did try to study parmahansa yogananda’s teachings and remember wanting to be enlightened like him and then I was given the bhagvad gita by a krishna devoutee at an airport where I was working for food stamps, the program they had in San Diego I would read the stories and not understand what they were talking about but it felt holy so I continued reading for a while.

So no, I suppose I would have continued with playing in bands and who knows from there but I doubt I would have become spiritual in any organized way. I was interested in “spirits” as reality and I had debates with Christians on the streets fairly often. So my “gig” as you call it, if it was unusual certainly wasn’t planned as you tend to suggest.

5) You said, “What about intelligence? H & BL weren’t very bright… I would expect a “next level” mind to be at least bright and intelligent”.

Even by your standard of intelligence why would you think they weren’t intelligent. Do you think being a nurse for preemie babies in the Houston Hospital system, with an interest in theosophy and astrology, who had a family of three girls, two of which were retarded was someone who wouldn’t have intelligence? And Do was a college grad who was in the military at white sands missile range as a communications specialist who tried seminary and dropped out because they were too limiting in what they would study and talk/think about. He was a professor of music and a star to some degree with lead roles in the Houston Opera. He taught at St. Thomas University and would eat lunch with Dan Rather who worked for CBS whose office was across the street. He mingled with high society types in Houston. He graduated with Farah Faucet (sp?). He was divoced and had children and was living a gay or bi lifestyle, though was not happy in it because he wanted a committed relationship. All the gay people I’ve met, for some reason seem to be quite intelligent moreso than many of the hetero brutes and I was never attracted to the same sex. Does any of this qualify his intelligence? If not then please explain why not?

6.) you said, “Maybe they’d figure out a way to live within the law instead of having 30 people shacked up in a house against zoning laws? Huh? That is something they certainly could have controlled… but as it was, their “whole mission” could be jeopardized by one ODY telling a co-worker something… and that DID happen… Do was about as flustered as I’d ever heard him on the tapes… you could hear his desperation a little bit — or maybe it was exasperation but it doesn’t matter.

So if srrody told someone at his job in the world where he lived and an investigator found out and got the police to come to our residence with charges trumped up because we did nothing genuinely illegal unless you of course believe all the laws are just and fair then wouldn’t it be a disruption of what they felt was their mission whether you agree with the mission’s validity or not? So was Do not allowed to be “exasperated” because it doesn’t match your idea of “holiness” you don’t believe in anyway?

7) you said, “the whole mythology is just so ugly and convoluted and so undoubtedly made up”.

What about Ti and Do was myth. Can something be called a myth when it’s in progress. Doesn’t myth refer to a story of the past. Of course if you believe the records of Jesus life were made up even though there is considerable evidence of Pilot and Herod and the Jewish treatment of a person with that name and Josephus, a non believer in Jesus, writings that confirm he was a real person and other references with the addition of the manuscript discoveries in Qumran and the Nag Hammadi discoveries in the 1940’s and 1950’s, then what can I say – it’s your choice what to consider true or false about history.

And what is it about Jesus or Ti and Do’s life that was “ugly”. Do not humans with belief systems of all kinds end up giving their lives to various causes. Thousands of U.S. soldiers died, many of which thought they were serving a truthful and worthy government. Many activists give their lives to bring peace and justice to their country and people. Emergency workers sometimes give their lives to save others. People do death defying things for thrill of it or to try to get famous. A case can be made that these are not worthy causes. Jesus follower risked their lives by talking about him and their belief in him. Jesus said that giving your life is the highest form of showing love for another. The students of Ti and Do chose to give their lives. There is no evidence at all that anyone was manipulated or pressured and some left even weeks before they laid down their lives and Ti and Do didn’t let some join them and sent others out of their group and sought to even pay some students to leave because they didn’t want anyone staying with them because it became comfortable. There was zero evidence of any abuses and there were over a hundred dropouts with only trivial complaints against them. eg. they didn’t like the procedure on the direction to shave (despite the fact that they didn’t have to follow that rule and why that became a rul to begin with – it was from someone asking how Do shaved. If anyone had a problem with a procedure they were free to state their problem and often an exception was made for them. I have dozens of examples, but part of the program was to learn to follow instructions no matter how small. This often separated those who were not committed enough for their program and Ti and Do regularly gave out airplane tickets and money and in one case a bus ticket to travel by bus for a year, to those that wanted to leave. I was given a plane ticket and $600 in cash when I chose to leave. Ti and Do never wanted anyone to leave. Even those they felt they had instruction to separate from their classroom they sought to stay in touch with if they wanted to stay in touch. They sent me a message through Rkkody to see where my head was at, if I had changed. I know the parents of some of those who joined in 1994 and one that joined in 1996 were most upset by the news of their loved one’s chosen exit of their body. But unlike the groups like Jim Jones and Solar Temple and Branch Davidians there were only adults in Ti and Do’s group. No children. I sympathize with those who lost loved ones. It is painful. I know it would be painful for me in their place. In fact when my partner broke up with me, even though I knew it was best it did hurt a great deal and when my daughter went to live with her mother I felt that root system pull hard on me for quite a while and still does at times. I can imagine that the parent of a son or daughter who takes their own life is a huge tug to deal with. But as I also have dealt with thinking I had cancer, it hurts but if we seek the help from the Next Level with our pain, no matter what we call those Above Human Beings in their kingdom, they will help us to deal with the fact that life in the human kingdom is temporary for all of us and there are no guarantees how it’s going to go, who is going to get sick and who is not and who is going to die before who. For those that don’t believe there are Creators with a plan, I don’t know what they can do to ease their pain, whatever it is from.

With that said, I don’t know what was “ugly” about Ti and Do unless the fact that all life on earth is temporary. If that is ugly then I guess life is ugly to have in the first place as if you never existed you would never experience an end to you or others existence.

8) you said, “heck you were jacking off long before you quit the group”.

That’s not true. I first masturbated late in 1993, 18 years after joining. I never even touched my privates to try to stimulate excitement for those 18 years though I certainly could have done a better job in control of my eyes though on the thought level became pretty good at. I never thought about the sex act at all in those 18 years. I did feel attraction to females in the group but I never imagined myself being intimate with any of them. My battle was turning my eyes away and then of course cutting off the stimulant that even a few seconds of looking at something stimulated. After 18 years of celibacy it took next to nothing to start to become stimulated.

9) You said, “you folks believed because you really wanted it to be true — you really wanted Do to be who he said he was… why not bet the farm on that he’s who he says he is???”

Shooting in the dark – I understand. Don’t want it to reflect the truth – that’s the choice you seem to want to take and that is fine. There is no value to convincing anyone anyway, but belief because of some need to believe doesn’t make any real sense unless it is to escape the life we have which if you actually look at the lives of the students you won’t find much if any of. Do the research of dropouts. See if they joined to escape something in life they were ashamed of or were running from facing. Then perhaps for that one, you could make a case for their belief because they wanted/needed to believe in something so to not deal with who they were or what they had done.

10) you said, “20 years and nothing? Earth about to be recycled? Life goes on.”

Sorry, but Life doesn’t go on indefinitely for anyone and the Next Level are not on our earth based time frame. If you live a short time more you will see more and more of the recycling. Global Warming is fairly telling and the prophecy says the human kingdom (earth) will be destroyed by “fire” this time. It seems that will be stimulated primarily by the way the Next Level has control over the sun, the reason Al Gore had his satellite just launched to just look at the sun as other satellites do because they have seen many very unusual things on the sun even without the satellite telescopes. But the “fire” I suspect is also a death because of “passion” whether by unbridled sensuality in all it’s forms; sexuality and related responses in disease, mental and physical or from anger and hatreds and negativity and war.

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3 Responses to “Comments against Ti and Do and their teachings and Sawyer’s responses”

  1. Penny Dale Says:

    hello Sawyer, I work for the BBC radio and am writing to see whether you would take part in an interview for our history programme. If you send me an email, I can give you more details. Thanks, Penny

  2. gemunis Says:

    If I, can only get these pesky,park rangers off, my back, asking me, for a camping, permit, I will have to go ‘Primitive tent, camping, if I am to finish, what I started”.

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