Ti and Do indicated they made mistakes and learned from them. We can too.

Here is a report I’ve seen before that may be from Ti and Do’s early awakening period that if it happened as it’s reported I suspect they might have considered a mistake that they learned a lesson from. From 1973 until 1974 they traveled all over the U.S. and I know they did so by asking for help with food and gas and shelter as they traveled, from preachers, because they claim to be working for God. But they also took jobs like, tarring rooves and digging septic tank ditches and also painted rocks to sell to tourists, as the examples they gave that I recall.

They said their choices to use a borrowed credit card and to rent a car and keep it longer than they were supposed to were mistakes they learned from, though one can see their mistakes as lesson opportunities for us. We can choose to see them and think they couldn’t be who they say they are because of, or see them as part of their learning experience and it’s even possible that Ti and Do’s Older Member in the Heavens overseeing their task wouldn’t have seen them as mistakes. In other words they could have been led to overlook the ramifications. There is considerable evidence of this in the way the things they said and did that changed or didn’t pan out as they thought at first served to dissuade some students from remaining their students while others, even a core group of 24 weren’t dissuaded in the least by any of these things. Thus they can be seen as both a filtering test criteria for those who were not strong enough to go the distance of overcoming all their humanness to graduate and can also be seen as additional fulfillment of prophecy and how Ti and Do were willing to be wrong and to admit it for the sake of their students. They didn’t make excuses as we see among the many Christian evangelicals that make predictions, though they did say some things were lessons for them which is saying they made mistakes, where these who predict the end of the world to the day often come back with another date, even when they know Jesus said no one is going to know the exact date. I suspect a lot of that kind of contradiction is because the lower forces have tricked them to think they have an exception, knowing they will be wrong and thus will be used to discredit even the entire belief in what Jesus taught and did. Anyway I’m not focused on that subject right now though it’s related to things Ti and Do said at first that they changed.

But personally I don’t see anything they said or did as a mistake. So with that said, here is the comment made to my blog that I believe was taken from a report I recognized though I haven’t checked it for exact wording and don’t recall where I saw it.

Comment from Jim on my blog:

On Oct. 9, 1973, the couple visited the town of Hopkinsville, Kentucky and skipped out on a $20 motel bill. While there, they checked into the old Holiday Inn on Fort Campbell Boulevard (now the Econo Lodge) where they made a lasting impression as a mysterious couple with no luggage and without a car. The following morning a maid found a note in their room in which they wrote:

From occupants of 47:On the Holiday Inn letterhead, they changed the wording from “The Nation’s Innkeeper” to “Innkeeper of the Universe.”

Dear Sir:

Thank you for permitting us accommodations in your inn. It would be impossible to explain to you who we are, where we come from, and who we represent. If we tried, you would not believe us. We exist in another dimension, which does not allow for the use of currency. We are on the planet for a few more months and our mission is for good. It would be useless for people to attempt to treat us as they would their own or to bring us harm, for it would result only in their death. This note is true and certainly not to be understood as threatening but as thanks for accommodations. This information should be kept in the strictest of confidence for your best interests. You will be rewarded well for your cooperation.”

Sawyers response:

I had read this account before and to me it does sound like Ti and Do in that note. Besides the obvious references to the “innkeeper of the Universe” as their letterhead, and being from “another dimension”, one of the ways they attempted to illustrate the difference between the Level Above Human and the Human Kingdom because the Next Level can operate in ways that are supernatural to humans though they are still in line with the physics of the planet, just not the visible physics that humans and their technologies can detect and identify as generated by Above Human intelligent physical beings.

Ti and Do did talk of their task duration as one of “months”.

In 1975-6 they were pressed by students about the time frame before “pick up”, at that time also thinking they would all be physically picked up in a matter of months. They responded, “no more than five years” and later felt they made a mistake to say that. As it turned out it was at the 5 year mark, thus about 1980 when Ti scheduled a pick up. We were still living outdoors in tents at the place called “cave without a name” in Boerne, Texas, the town where they first awakened in a big way after leaving Houston and their human lives behind. We stayed up most of the night waiting and there was no sign of a spacecraft and Do told us later that Ti felt she “had egg on her face” though I can’t recall she said anything to the student body about it. Interestingly, some left the group shortly after that, if I recall, Jssody, Rymody, Shdody, Trsody, Dymody and others, though the last two found their way back somehow years later and were among the 38. I can’t say they left because of that but I believe one of them later told a reporter that was why they left as the spacecraft pickup didn’t happen so they lost faith in Ti and Do.

What is also interesting was how to their core students who amounted to 24 by 1993 it didn’t phase them, just like the cancelling or changing of the “demonstration” didn’t phase them either. I was one of those that it didn’t phase. I wasn’t with them looking for a UFO experience nor because of their being the Two Witnesses of Revelations. I wasn’t a Christian though I believed in Jesus and I hardly knew anything about UFO’s except when Ti and Do said biblical accounts of “clouds of light” or “whirlwinds of fire” made sense to me to be spacecrafts. To me that was logical. Looking back, it had to be because of having received that recognition as though perhaps one could say I was naive about some things there were other things I was astutely aware. When I was told about the falling domino theory for the Vietnam war, I totally distrusted government and was not going to go fight their war and was preparing to go to Canada. As it turned out 55,000 American lives later, not to fail mention of probably millions of Vietnamese, Cambodian and Laotian lives that perception was right and has since pertained to government nearly across the board.

Now where they said those that sought to harm them would only result in their death, sounded like the prophecy pertaining to the Two Witnesses:

Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

This usage as “killed” coming from the Greek, “apokteino” where “apo” is a prefix having to do with “separation” and “kteino” said to mean “death”, though it’s a word no one can find any history of except together with “apo” together would indicate either “death causing a separation” or “separating by/through, because of dying”. In this context the separation would be from the Next Level which is the ultimate definition of death because then that spirit or soul will never see life. I’m not going through an entire re-translation of this verse, but it will be included in my book.

Ti and Do did not believe what they believed about where they had come from and what their task was because of study. In Boerne where they spent less than 6 weeks is where they came to know individually that they had both come from “outer space” and were on Earth to “fulfill prophecy” and “bring updates to the bible”. That was in January and February of 1973. It wouldn’t be until several months later while in Gold Beach, Oregon that their study of all prophecy they could get their hands on, to learn what that prophecy they were to fulfill was, that they happened upon the Revelations chapter 11 prophecy of the Two Witnesses and knew this was referring to their task.

They essentially believed it as it was written though when the handwriting was on the wall, so to speak and they felt instruction to change their thinking, they didn’t hesitate, even though they knew they could lose their students by doing so. They always said that they individually had a very real communication with the Next Level and they would check with one another and find out that they received the same impressions at the same time even though they hadn’t talked about it beforehand.

Then of course changing the letterhead to: the “innkeepers of the Universe” sounds like them too.

It was a little puzzling that they were reported to not have a car or luggage. As Do reported in 88Update, he and Ti got to St. Louis in December of 1973 where their car broke down and he used one of his own credit cards he knew was good to rent a car with trusting, having faith they would be able to pay for it. He confirmed the same story when he made the unscripted “Beyond Human – The Last Call” video tape series.

Here is Do talking about it in Session 5 of 12 in the video series which had the assistance from June (Jwnody) and Sawyer (Swyody) which is why I know they were unscripted. I was directly involved in the filming. Do didn’t have any notes though did have questions set up ahead that the two helpers were to remind him to address for each session. He said,

“Another thing that happened is that Ti and I were in St. Louis at midnight when the comet Kohoutek came along, and our car, the little old dumpy car that we had reduced ourselves to, died.”

So if this note was left on October 9th of 1973, where was their car as it hadn’t broke down yet in St. Louis over two months later? Well, I suppose if they knew ahead of time that they would be skipping out on the bill, they could have parked the car someplace else, even on the other side of where their room was as Holiday Inn’s are never very small as then no one would see their licence plates. Or perhaps the Inn keeper just didn’t see their car or luggage. There were several reports of Ti and Do seemingly vanishing in thin air in those early days, one reported by Hayden Hewes who co-authored the book “UFO Missionaries Extraordinary”. Ti and Do once laughed about that saying they never vanished. I’ve wondered if the Next Level made it appear to some humans that they vanished.

In any case, it could have been them. If so what would be the justification. As Session Five continues it would appear that Ti and Do counted it a mistake on their part. Do continues…

“I’ll let you in on just a little personal history of the two of us. You’ll probably dig in and find a bunch of stuff. If you do hear it from the media, I’ll tell you now, about 80 or 90 percent of it is totally inaccurate. But I don’t say that in defense – you believe what you want to believe. Ti and I as individuals at the beginning were very, very moral individuals in our own standing. We felt like we were moral people. We felt like we lived very correctly, as far as how to treat our families, how to treat our neighbors, how to abide by the law. I could remember if I even had a friend that smoked a joint, and pot was illegal, I’d have wanted to stop having anything to do with him because he was doing something that was illegal. So, we were that preoccupied with trying to live in a way that wouldn’t upset the world of Caesar, so to speak. I mean, when Jesus said, “Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar,” it’s the same thing. In leaving this world to go to our Father’s Kingdom, you try the best you can to not make a mess of the world that you’re leaving. Yet in spite of it, sometimes we make a mess. And I’m going to let you in on a mess that I made when Ti and I were awakening.

At one time when we’d run out of money, one of our students said, “Look, I’ve got this perfectly good credit card here that I’d like for you to use for awhile if you can use it to help you buy gas.” So, we used it for a short time, and then we got to feeling uncomfortable about it. And just about the time we got to feel uncomfortable about it, we learned, by a circumstance which I’ll tell you about in a few minutes, that the card had been reported stolen by the husband of the student, who had said, “It’s a good credit card and I want you to use it.” But things were happening at the home of that student that we weren’t aware of. In our naivete‚ we thought, “Well, thanks a lot, we’ll buy a little gas with this credit card for a period of time.”

Another thing that happened is that Ti and I were in St. Louis at midnight when the comet Kohoutek came along, and our car, the little old dumpy car that we had reduced ourselves to, died.

When we left the world, we both had shiny new cars and we wore them out. One we left to be repossessed, because our heads were so captivated by what we were doing, we knew that we couldn’t take the responsibility for it. We couldn’t even stop to think about it. And here we were in a snow storm in the middle of the night in St. Louis, as I said, the night Kohoutek came. And I had a credit card of my own in my pocket that we knew was good. We hadn’t used it, and it was in good standing. I pulled out the credit card and I said, “Look, let’s rent a car. Let’s have faith that the bill will be taken care of and we’ll get on our way and we won’t just be stranded. Here we are, we’ve got no car at all, and hardly funds for doughnuts.” So, we rented this car and then we went on.

Now, you can say, “What are you doing”? Well, we were going from this little minister to that little minister, to this TV preacher to that one, and we were saying, “We don’t know why we have this information, but we feel that we’ve been sent from the Kingdom of Heaven to tell you this and this and this.” And most of the time what they would do is listen politely, and maybe offer us a meal and say, “What you’re saying tempts me somehow or other as I sit here listening to you….” Or what would happen to us many times is someone would listen to us and they’d believe everything we’d say, and then they would part from us, and go have dinner with their family or something and come back with a completely different attitude, almost as if to say, “Get out of here! You’re upsetting my whole life. I don’t want to see you again!” Or they would say, “I wish I could go with you, but I can’t. I just can’t destroy everything that I am responsible for here.” Well, we were so busy going around naively telling what we were doing, that in this town of Brownsville, Texas – right down on the Mexican border – we thought, “Well, we’re going to let our story out to the media. We’re going to tell the media what we know about the Kingdom of Heaven and our having been sent from the Kingdom of Heaven to help people get from here to there.” And so we visited with this reporter and we set up an appointment at a motel saying, “We’ve got the most exciting, unusual, interesting story to tell you that you have ever heard. So come and meet us at this motel room and hear this story.” Little did we know that that reporter showed up, without telling us, with the sheriff and deputies, and helicopters, and squad cars, because he thought that we were going to tell him about a major drug deal. Because that was the most important story that he could think of that we could tell him. And when we were to meet with him, we suddenly wondered, “What is this crowd of people around here? Who are all these people”? And we were getting vibes that didn’t feel too good to us. So, we ran out of the room and ran to our car, climbed in, and scooted down the street, because we couldn’t figure out what was happening here.

Next thing you knew, the helicopter came in on us with its megaphone and was saying, “Pull off! Pull off!” I don’t know what they were saying. We were scared to death. Then we pulled off and someone from the sheriff’s department got in the car and said, “I want to see your ID.” And then they said, “Well, we don’t know what we’ve stopped you for, but we’ll tell you in a minute.” What they stopped us for was because they couldn’t figure out why we were running. Because here they were at the motel with the reporter, and so they were just holding us while they were trying to figure out what they were holding us for. In the meantime, they did a check on the license plate on the car that we had rented. And yes, we had held the car past the point that it should be returned, though we had written a note saying to the charge card company and to the rental office, “Don’t worry, we’ll return the car soon and the bill will be paid, and we’ll take good care of the car.”

You can say, “That was really stupid and naive.” Yes, but we were so captivated with our task that we had blinders on to Caesar’s world. We were so caught up in our Father’s world and convinced that our Father wouldn’t let anything happen to us – that that bill would be paid and we didn’t have to worry about it. So, what happens, we get thrown in jail because in the process of doing a search on us they learned that Ti’s name had been turned in for possession of stolen credit cards – the credit card I mentioned to you earlier that someone had given us. And they had just neglected to remove that charge when we didn’t use that card. It was an old charge, but was still in the books. The student by that time had returned home to husband many months prior to that. While we were held in the Brownsville jail, they checked that out and they found out that the charges had been dropped on the credit card. But in the process, they moved Ti to another jail closer to the court where that credit card charge would come up if it was still an active charge. And they moved me to St. Louis. Regarding the charge card that I had used – the rental car company had dropped the charges. But I hate to tell you that an ambitious prosecuting attorney in St. Louis thought, “This is an easy case. I can make some points. This guy is as guilty as he can be of a stolen car.” So, here I went to jail in St. Louis. Well, within about 30 days, Ti was released from jail, and boy, did we learn a lot from that experience.

I stayed in jail and the little public defender kept coming and coming and coming, and saying, “Oh, this is a ricky-ticky case and we’ll have you out of here in no time, time served.” And I was thinking, “Goodness alive, what have we done! Nobody’s going to believe what we have to say about the Truth because now we’re criminals. We’re socially unacceptable. And who on Earth will listen to somebody that has a record”? And the little public defender came in and said, “It’s Christmas time and I think that the judge will release you on time served if you will plead guilty. Then we can get you out in a hurry.” I’d been in there 6 months when my case went before the judge and I was sentenced to 4 months. So, they owe me 2, in a sense. I mean, as far as I’m concerned, I was in there 2 beyond my sentence, but I didn’t get any credit for it. I’m teasing, but the point I’m making is that Ti and I didn’t want to do anything that could be questionable because we didn’t want a bad light shed upon our credibility if we had this Truth to offer. But the fact that Luci came in on us to see that we were so quickly discredited, also acted as insurance for our continued separation from the world.”

We had a new rule now. It was: How tight can our rules be to not again be questioned as far as legality or to not get in a circumstance like this. Oh, I’m sure that if they want to find fault with you bad enough, they can find it or make it up. I’m sure the design has some loop holes in it that they could find fault if they wanted to badly enough. But I’m telling you how – and Jesus taught this – that “if you follow me,” you will lose credibility, you will lose respect from those that you had respect from. I’m afraid the same is true today. If we end up being the instruments of your overcoming, of your transition from the human kingdom to our Heavenly Father’s Kingdom, I’m afraid you will lose credibility. If there’s a reason for it to be lost, you will lose it. It can assist you. It can become the positive. It can accelerate. It can ensure your separation. Even though the situation always exists, as I spoke of earlier, that we can say to any student, “If you don’t want to be here, if you aren’t happy here, go and try to recover whatever it is that you want to recover. We’ll help you try to recover it.” Because, don’t forget, in the same way that when you go against our Father’s Kingdom, His rule is that, “If you acknowledge that you’ve gone against Me, if you ask for forgiveness, then I’ll take you back into My camp.”‘

Luci has a counterfeit of those same rules. Luci says that in his world, if you come back and you apologize for having been a part of that “cult” and having been duped into that stupid venture of yours and if you come and say, “I did wrong, I’ll prove to you that I’ll do right, I’ll re-assume my responsible position in this world,” then he’ll accept you back. He’ll let you back in that fold. I’m afraid I slipped and said “Luci” again, and I said that I wouldn’t. But you know I have to share with you that in my conversations with Ti about that usage of “Luci,” I felt like Ti kept saying, “Oh come on, Do, don’t make such an issue of it. If anybody named Lucille or Lucy hears you do that, they can take it in the right way.” So, I’m not sure that every time I use it, even though I’ll try not to, that I’ll bother to correct it, because I’m going to assume that it only applies within the context. There’s certainly nothing wrong with the name Lucy. Even Lucifer was “Prince of Light” or “Son of Light.” The name was a beautiful name. It’s the individual that went awry that had that name.”

Thus as Do said about the circumstances around the alleged auto theft and credit card theft,…

“We had a new rule now. It was: How tight can our rules be to not again be questioned as far as legality or to not get in a circumstance like this.”

I think it safe to say they felt like they made mistakes and there are additional examples and they felt Jesus felt he also made mistakes.

Finally, let’s say their Next Level helpers wanted them to make mistakes. For what reason. Well, for one so we would have a real picture of the task and wouldn’t judge others that made mistakes, that is if we become helpers to others coming in the direction of the Next Level.

And it just so happens, in this case it also fulfills prophecy that he comes as a thief:

Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

(Incidentally, this was basically saying to be vigilant and awake and watchful and guard  what you look at with your eyes, keeping your clothes on  so you don’t slip into indecent behaviors with uncovered genitals).

I believe the context of this refers mostly to the timing of his arrival being a surprise and being at night meaning that it is hidden from view as Jesus also says in Luke which is the basis of one application of coming with/from clouds as clouds are a covering but also coming incarnate is also coming in an “undercover” way as Ti and Do called it.

At the same time as in most all prophecy there are several ways to interpret it, he is as a thief because He is taking away human vehicles from their otherwise normal human activities and relationships, however gradually and/or in stages. The new students returning as “souls” come in to “capture” human vehicles (Jesus said he was making them “fishers of men (humans)” the way a human rancher might capture wild horses to put them to work. Now Next Level “ranchers” don’t abuse those horses. In fact it’s the Next Level way to offer those horses training and those that don’t accept it, let go back into their wild, while those that do accept it, even come to choose to be with their human masters over going back to the wild to run with the herd/pack again. The Mind/spirit from such a horse, or in the additional way Ti and Do described this about dogs, having become part of a human family/household, following all the rules and even seeming to think of themselves as an equal with the human family members, that spirit/mind of that dog can even move into relationship with a new born baby human in that family unit and become a big influence on their developing mind. (I haven’t heard of a horse living in the house with a human – I don’t know if they can be potty trained).

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23 Responses to “Ti and Do indicated they made mistakes and learned from them. We can too.”

  1. crlody Says:

    What did Ti and Do say that “never came to pass”? They didn’t make prophecies and were quite adamant that Their purpose here was to show individuals how to make the transition into the Level Above Human and solely that, not to predict when the earth will be recycled. If you’re referring to the recycling of the planet Do never gave a date and said it would happen at such and such a time. He even said in one of the recycled videos that the recycling could take 1,000 yrs earth time and that He was relating to two different time tracks (Next Level and earth time) and that His concept of “soon” may not be the same as a human’s. Just like you could never prove that They didn’t come and leave by a spacecraft I could never prove that They did. I know that the members of the Class who stayed loyal to the NL through Ti and Do are with Them in the Next Level and of course I’ll never be able to prove it to anyone’s satisfaction just like you could never prove that they aren’t in the NL. So, how many wordpress profiles have you created now? I accept that you don’t accept Ti and Do as being reps of the NL. You have the right to think however you choose and this is not something that you can be talked into (obviously) and I have no interest or desire to change how you think, as if I ever could. You do not seem to accept that about SWY and others and spend a lot of energy trying to tell others how they should be thinking.

  2. pa from the Rockford files! Says:

    Watching the mysterious two now.. Thank you thank you! This movie is the most ridiculous thing …wow … Did you folks watch this when it was on? This is incredible… It e enhas the same creepiness that you folks had… I’ve ordered the DVD.

    • sawyer Says:

      I guess we did watch it once to see what it was saying and of course knew it was just a bunch of propoganda which was not unexpected. You appear to be another liar comparing that movie’s creepiness with Ti and Do’s classroom that didn’t resemble that movie at all. So tell me about where you saw the same creepiness from a perspective you know nothing about. Just more propoganda.

    • XF Says:

      “Pa”, or shall we say “Jim”, “Tmmodee” or other identities you consistently keep returning under. Your comment is a “joke”. Does the University know you’re doing this btw? You know what I mean. Do something about your inability to act as a rational adult. Get a life. Thank you.

      • jim Says:

        whoa. Sawyer, you have a believer.

        XF (if that is your real name) — I’m not attacking Ti and Do’s beliefs nor am I attacking you folks — you know — “you people” that believe in them. Heck, believe away my friend.

        In your blog you say that “99% of the world that attacks Ti and Do…”… dude, 99% have no idea who they were.

        Test this: go up to someone in the grocery store at random (maybe with a clipboard so it looks like you are doing a survey or something — be careful I don’t want you frightening folks)… go up to a random person and ask “Why are you attacking the beliefs of Ti and Do?” and I guarantee you they’ll have no idea what you are talking about.

        If 99% of the world is attacking Ti and Do — then practically everyone you ask would start spewing venom about them… but truly if anyone even has a clue who they were, they’ll probably just feel very sorry about how things turned out.

        I am very rational. Ask Sawyer. I’m rational with a capital R.

        Very nice, XF! I’m glad you exist and I hope you are happy and filled with joy… what a world we live in, huh, brother?

        We rational folks don’t have all the answers — but we’re trying!

        You mention “Satan”… really? Men don’t need Satan to be evil. Quit looking for a scapegoat. Men can be quite evil on their very own, thank you very much!

        XF… maybe X-files? Well again — nice to meet you… thanks for the wonderful comment. I detect a little bitterness.

        Just consider me Hylas to you folks’ Philonous. I’m harmless. I give folks some things to think about. I’ve obviously got you to put your thinking cap on, too. You’re welcome!

        Sincerely, Astroman.

      • sawyer Says:

        I said 99% of the world that attacks Ti and Do. I didn’t say 99% of the world attacks Ti and Do. Can you see the difference. Though not perfect by any means I do try to word things to reflect what I believe to be accurate though of course I don’t know if it’s 99% – it’s just a way of saying the vast majority. I know you just like to bust my vehicles balls. I’m weary of your long comments that have little in them I need to respond to. I know I’m quite long winded but then you have the same choice to read what I write or not. If there was anything in a comment you really want a response to, then put it in the top of the comment, otherwise I have to try to conserve my energy for other directions.

      • jim Says:

        SEE “THE MYSTERIOUS TWO”…it is awesome.

    • XF Says:

      “Pa”, “Jim”, “Tmmodee” and all of these other personalities you come on here with, get real. XF stands for the “Tenth Factor”. Furthermore, I’m not interested in your multiple personalities, “Jim”. None of us are. You didn’t answer my question: Does the University know you are using their computers? You know what I’m talking about. “The Mysterious Two” is Hollywood’s perverted rendition of the Truth. It’s not awesome, it’s trash. I’m not bitter, you are. You are harmless you say? Really.. Well, that’s a contradiction if I ever saw one. You come on here with multiple identities and cause various disturbances. How is that harmless? If you were harmless, you wouldn’t mock what we believe with no intention of believing yourself. Nobody is interested in your condescending sarcasm. What’s “your” real “name”? Dave? If you don’t believe in Satan, that means you don’t believe in God either, which means you are an Atheist. No point arguing with an Atheist. You guys don’t have a leg to stand on. And don’t call yourself “rational” with a capital “R” when you come on here posing as scores of other individuals. You are “Irrational” with a capital “I”. I wish you well, but get some help and get a life.

  3. crlody Says:

    Thanks for including the transcription of the tape where Do talked about Their arrest. I think that was on one of the 1994 tapes.

    • sawyer Says:

      Are you talking about some of the tapes from 94 as this section was session 8 of the Beyond human series. If so let me know what tape so I can review it again. I wish we had transcripts of all the tapes. Like I don’t know if anyone transcribed the Inverness tape?

      • crlody Says:

        Oh, you’re right it is from the BH series. However, there is a tape from 1994 where Do tells the story as well. I could be wrong but I think it’s one of the tapes from Inverness, CA. To my knowledge none of the tapes have been transcribed.

  4. jim Says:

    I guess I should mention that there are some mistakes it is impossible to learn from. For all the mistakes and misfires and misjumps and miscalculations that Herf made over the decades… he could just “do over”.

    It is good that he took ownership of his mistakes.

    But suicide, my friend, is a mistake with no do-overs.

    He knew that he should accept his mistakes — but he never realized that his whole life was pretty much nothing BUT mistakes, and thus never thought that the suicides themselves could just be yet another mistake in a life of missteps.

    They learned from their mistakes, I suppose. But didn’t have the capacity to doubt the ultimate decision. In that sense, he never really did learn.

    • sawyer Says:

      That’s all your opinion of course but for any that read this that don’t know any better there are many exaggerations in listing “all the mistakes and misfires and misjumps and miscalculations that Herf made over the decades”. From one real perspective I challenge you to find any human who is any better. Now as far as your view on his laying down of his body, why is that a mistake for him and why would it be a mistake for any of them. There is an abundance of evidence for the vast majority of the students that their choice was very well thought out over years and even many years time for most as I and Carlan can attest to from personal experience that is backed up by many events to include the many times they sent students out of their classroom because they knew they weren’t ready to “give their all”. Now that’s aside from the fact that it’s not possible to judge something you have no judgement about. For instance if you don’t believe there is a reality to cell phone remote communications and haven’t experienced it then there is no way to change unless you have the experience to prove it and still can think it was a trick like the moon landing some still think didn’t happen or sandy hook or the boston bombing, etc. How does one get that experience if they don’t want it? The entire subject of the idea of spirits, discarnates is something that many think is tomfoolery as with the space alien subject and even the idea that there are intelligent beings living on planets elsewhere in the universe and I could go on and on. If one doesn’t have the “program” that lays out at least the possability then they can’t run that software that could allow them to become aware of more of what they otherwise don’t know they don’t know.

      So we really have no grounds for a talk about this. We are standing in completely different places and I don’t wish to challenge your place except that you insist on commenting on my blog posts, which is fine but you know good old einstein or someone said the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results or something like that, yet that’s what this conversation has become and has been for years now.

      You know well if you listed all those “mistakes and misfires and misjumps and miscalculations”, as you like to say Herf made, I would show you how every one of them was either a benefit or a misrepresentation of the truth or a mistake learned from, as I have spoken too before.

      In case anyone wonders that may come to this blog for the first time, I, nor Ti and Do are pro suicide, but then the idea of giving ourselves 100% to the Creators of the planet and all the life forms that I know exist and can prove to anyone with the least bit of open mind, if it results in dying for them as the 38 did for and with Do in 1997 then for them it is a good thing because we know they exist and are trustworthy. But to them suicide would have been to not exit when they knew they were approved to do so by Ti in which they had many proves over many years time to decide by. (even if some had dropped out wouldn’t mean it was absolutely suicide for them to drop out, that is IF they strove to seek how they could get back on track). It only suicide if we reject them until our vehicle perishes because at that point that spirit or soul is probably lost to having any future graduation into the only real future any human can ever really have.

      But also, to say that suicide has no do overs is just not aware of what we don’t know. If the Next Level witnesses a human take their life and determines that they should have another chance to overcome whatever happened to them, who are any of us to say the Next Level can’t take that spirit and give it a new opportunity. These vehicles are only instruments that many spirits time share with anyway, unless we give those spirits their walking papers and seek to keep our house clean of their influence.

      But if you don’t think any of this has merit then we have no grounds to come to a new understanding.

      • Captain Mojo Says:

        Sawyer,

        You said: “There is an abundance of evidence for the vast majority of the students that their choice was very well thought out over years and even many years time …”

        I would go a step further and say for ALL the students. Their suicides testify to that. Every last one of them except maybe DVVODY (you’d agree) was so convinced that they committed suicide.

        Was there ever any non-trivial thing that Do predicted would happen that did happen?

        Your blog post was that ti and do learned from their mistakes. The fact that a next level being made mistakes aside… if they knew they were prone to mistakes (which is a huge understatement), why make a decision that is irreversible?

      • sawyer Says:

        Just because Dvvody was there such a short time and far shorter than most everyone else doesn’t mean she wasn’t equally committed and understanding about what she was doing. We don’t need to pretend we can think for her and time is not the only factor in this. However, it does take some belief in Ti and Do and who they said they are to see the way I am suggesting. Without that it looks as you said like she couldn’t have thought out that choice to exit with them. But if it was all true as I feel certain about, then it’s right along the thinking of the parable of Jesus where the employer goes out to hire people at different times in the same day and pays them all the same wage promised them even though some worked all day while others half a day and less. It’s the employers prerogative and the Next Level is not casual about this. I am certain if Ti didn’t think Dvvody was ready she would have either not allowed her to join at that late date or would have put her to a test that would face her with whatever might have been something she still needed to overcome at that time that superseded exiting. We know that some in the class, Do felt would need to return to the human kingdom to complete their overcoming. I have no idea who that or those would be.

        It’s hard to express this but it wasn’t really a matter of our convincing ourselves or convincing our vehicles. Sure there was a degree of that. That’s part of the overcoming process to not let the vehicle call the shots. But note that we had no imposed repetition of washing the brain of human behaviors and ways, except for being there everyday and appearing to be fully cognizant of the program. We had no group chanting or meditations, kept no rosary beads or hours alone promising to repeat mantra’s over and over and over to program the vehicle by such repetition. You didn’t see people walking around like they are high on spirit – you know with that air of holiness, soft deliberate compassionate speech. There was no pretense that the vehicle would identify with as religiosity or spirituality. Sure we had the techniques of mediation and mantra and soft speech and limited talking, doing things quietly and deliberately but no mechanism to measure whether someone was embracing them all in their privacy except for a short period of time when they were each introduced to us to use as tools in our overcoming – taking control over the vehicle. Yes, Ti and Do prodded us to have more thirst to grow to receive the next steps. I was convinced when I joined and don’t recall having doubts though after leaving realized I did but didn’t want to linger on them. That is part of the overcoming to send doubts packing but there was no mechanism to measure who was doing that and who wasn’t. Yet it came out in the end and that’s where time seemed to become a factor as conquering (overcoming) the influences to think and act in human ways requires a building of strength of one’s mind, resolve and keenness to be on solid ground. It’s the illustration of amour that is being built. I would say it is more the opposite of convincing that had one stay the course. One had to convince Ti and Do they were genuine to stay. It wasn’t an accident that they sent the 19 out of the group in late 1976.

        Ti and Do were not in the business of predicting things that can be proven. However the things they did predict I would say all have or will come true 100% but whether someone believes that is always going to be in the eye of the beholder and if we don’t want to see those fulfillment we won’t.

        But I’ll give it a brief shot anyway because I do feel there are a number of prophecies that they fulfilled that could be proof of what they said, that is for those that choose to see it that way.

        But this is actually the entire point of the 1000’s of pages of my book that demonstrates the fine details to how they fulfilled and are continuing to fulfill all the prophecies in the book of revelations.

        But if I were to take my book and was given a court room with a jury and lets say I had to provide at least 3 strong facts that would be evidence of the fulfillment of prophecy by Ti and Do, I can’t imagine that any objective group would be able to deny that I’ve made about as convincing a case as can be made (not saying another couldn’t do a better job), but I suspect the job I have done would be sufficient to make the case that:

        1. They said they were the Two Witnesses of Revelations chapter 11 – having come incarnate as Jesus indicated would be the way he came again and with new names and would tell us the name of the Father as well and to a new part of the world also having a new name. Some sources: Jesus, jesus through John, Zechariah, Isaiah, Daniel, etc.

        2. They were from the Kingdom that created the Earth and all it’s life forms.
        3. They were both Older Members from the the Next Level and actually were FAther and son as prophecied by Jesus. Sources: Jesus, Daniel, Zechariah
        4. They were both christs. sources: Jesus, Daniel, Zechariah
        5. Ti was the Father in a womans body as shown in Rev 12: sources: Do, Jesus through John, Pistas Sophia, etc.

        6. They said the Next Levels have/use physical bodies – source – recovery of physical bodies that did not have human organ systems lacking digestive and reproductive organs – things Ti and Do and Jesus indicated would need to be overcome.

        7. They transport themselves in physical spacecrafts that they cloak using cloud making technology: We know humans didn’t make the flying saucers of the 1940’s, 1950’s, etc. even though those were shown to be Luciferian based occupants – human equivilents.

        Now I’m pretty sure these will not be what you would say were predictions but even if I told you what I think will be future fulfillments of the book of revelations that Ti and Do said all would be fulfilled, you will be challenged to see what I see as a fulfillment. Now I could be wrong but that’s going by what you have already said, though I know you could have certain switches turn on at any time, but possibly not if you don’t at least surrender to their being truth to what I’m saying. I’m not saying I want you do to do that but I know it’s possible, if there is a part of you that wants to know the full truth to all of this and are willing to put aside your previous ideas that would deny the possibilities. Again, I don’t get any stars on my crown if I ever get one because of seemingly selling you a bill of these goods. You actually have to sell Ti and Do that you want it and then they will give you a little smelling salt and though you will continue to have battles with reality and doubts and all manner of previous thinking, you will have a glimmer you know you did not have before. It’s a battle for all of us, though we each have different positions on the front lines, one not greater than the other as success is who is left still standing when the Next Level says enough. Standing is not the vehicle that stands as much as the Mind of the vehicle that makes the vehicle stand as well.

      • sawyer Says:

        Why make a decision that is irreversible? you ask/comment –

        They had outgrown having any use for reversing it.

        Their vehicles were already largely “dead” to all human behaviors and ways so it was just finalizing it which to them was opening the next door they knew was awaiting them.

        Even their vehicles believed, but it’s the same kind of belief one gets from performing lab experiments over and over that convince us of consistent results. If we see ourselves changing and with each change we recognize that we have more common sense about what else we are looking at ti becomes a knowing. One can’t have that without the investment of time and effort believing in the experiments they are given by the lab instructors. If you want that knowing then you have to make the investment of believing it can be had.

  5. Woraufhin Says:

    I’ve recently been considering the role of intellectual enquiry in the overcoming process. I often contemplate mathematical and logical problems, for example, and experience this as furthering the overcoming process insofar as it takes me beyond myself, so to speak, through shifting my focus away from my vehicle and its desires onto something distinct from and perhaps greater than myself. I could be wrong; but I feel that this is similar to the experience of drawing on the mind of one’s older member, which I have heard you and Do talk about, in that one is purely open to ideas and perhaps Next Level mind rather than trying to impose one’s own will upon something or control something through one’s vehicle. At the same time, however, I am aware that my older member and the Next Level generally already possess the solutions to all the problems I am contemplating; so I wonder whether contemplating such problems is of any value in the overcoming process, which seems to be primarily a practical process of moral and character development rather than one of intellectual development. What was Ti and Do’s stance on these issues? Is it permissible to call upon the mind of Ti, Do, and the Next Level when contemplating purely intellectual problems? Did Ti and Do see a role for such contemplation in the overcoming process? Is there perhaps a special kind of thinking one should engage in so that one remains open to Next Level mind?

    • XF Says:

      Woraufhin, you stated: “Is it permissible to call upon the mind of Ti, Do, and the Next Level when contemplating purely intellectual problems?” In my opinion, of course you can call on the name of Ti & Do for assistance. Just make sure you are purely sincere about it. The Next Level does not want anyone to believe in them and the Truth who does not desperately want to believe in them and the Truth. Plus, you can study the information they left behind as well. There’s the purple book, 11 or so video tapes and 486 audio tapes that can all be ordered by contacting rep@heavensgate.com. I have several queries for you if I may inquire: In your statement you said “when contemplating “purely intellectual” problems”. What do you mean by that? Can you please elaborate? What is your over all view on matters of life and the overcoming process? Furthermore, what is your opinion of the 1997 Graduation to what the world calls a Mass Suicide? Do you believe it was suicide? What is your view of the Afterlife? What is your view of the leaders Ti & Do when they were here? Have you listened to the tapes and if so, which ones and from where? What is your view of Atheism, God and the Bible? What drew you to this direction to begin with and when did you become interested in it? What state and country do you live in so the closest HG believer to you can send you information? Thank you.

      • Woraufhin Says:

        Hello XF,

        Thank you for your reply; I would certainly call upon Ti and Do only in sincerity.

        I shall answer your queries. I am a tutor and researcher in philosophy at The University of Manchester in England; the problems I contemplate relate to our comprehension of the world and the foundations of the sciences: http://www.socialsciences.manchester.ac.uk/subjects/philosophy/our-people/teaching-assistants/howard-kelly/

        I have no definite world view, nor any definite conception of the afterlife, but first became aware of Heaven’s Gate in 2010 and realised that it was quite unlike anything I had encountered before: as you have also said in your video entitled ‘Heaven’s Gate: Extraordinary’. I have watched the Beyond Human series several times and all the Heaven’s Gate videos availables on Vimeo and listened to all the audible recordings that were available at 4shared and on YouTube. I have also watched all of Sawyer’s videos available on YouTube and your own video, as mentioned.

        I believe that the overcoming process, which I understand as involving recognising both that this world has little value in comparison to that of the Next Level and that we as individuals rely on something greater than ourselves for guidance, is necessary because of the sufferings that pursuing only things of this world brings and because we cannot truly free ourselves from those sufferings except through the assistance of someone or something greater than ourselves.

        Unlike many people not directly connected to Heaven’s Gate, I have few qualms about the exit of Do and crew. For if Do had received instruction that he and the crew should lay down their physical vehicles at that point, as we must believe if we are to give Heaven’s Gate any credence at all, then it was an act of departure to the Next Level rather than of suicide.

        I believe that Ti and Do had valuable information to convey, which has interested me to the extent that I have reviewed it many times during the last few years. As I am not a Bible scholar, I am not in a position to say whether Ti and Do were the Two Witnesses. But I believe that Sawyer’s interpretation of the Bible as relating to Ti and Do, which he has provided in his broadcasts, has plausibility. As Do says in the Beyond Human series in connection with Jesus’s resurrection, I acknowledge in any case that the value of the information does not depend on the events surrounding the dissemination of that information.

        Although I am not an atheist, I have no clear conception of God. As Do’s use of the term ‘chief of chiefs’ suggests, I deem it quite possible that we in our present state are incapable of conceiving God adequately and so must look primarily to our older member rather than directly to God.

      • XF Says:

        Interesting response. Quite interesting. May I inquire as to why 2010 and not before that? What struck you about HG? What drew you to it and why? Do you recall watching any HG promotional videos on a YouTube channel entitled XFChecker97 from 2010 to mid 2012? You must have seen it around then. I had about 40 or so videos up maximum with a total of approximately 33,000 hits. No doubt this would have generated extra traffic to http://www.heavensgate.com. If I can offer you a piece of advice: I highly suggest from now on that you open a WordPress.com account so your IP address can be detected. This is to ensure the accuracy of who you say you are. As you may have observed, there is a irrational individual who uses multiple personalities on this blog to mostly distract, harass and spam Sawyer. He plays games and it’s all a joke to him. I and some others I’m sure are not laughing. Maybe you should even set up a blog talking about your interest in the Information, even if it’s as a seeker or even a sympathizer. It puzzles me that after such intense research on your part, very much like another individual I know, that you haven’t set up a YouTube account or a WordPress.com account and mentioned something about HG in whole or in part for the past 5 years. If you say you have listened to the 90 or so audio tapes (much like what “Jim” (although we know who he really is) has done and watched all of the videos (ironically on Vimeo instead of YouTube), there is only one task left that I would think for you to do as far as research goes. I would suggest you contact Mark King at the Email address of rep@heavensgate.com and order the 486 audio tapes that Heaven’s Gate left behind for the world to hear and not to be hidden from the world. They are supposed to be made available to the general public without exception. Let me know how that goes. Also, is there a University Email and phone number in the UK to be reached at for identity confirmation? This is for security purposes to ensure you are not a spammer, troll or just another dispensation of “Jim”. Hopefully you can understand this position of caution sir. Please don’t be offended. Thank you.

    • sawyer Says:

      I don’t believe anyone can say what you can ask Ti and Do about but whether or not they reply and in what way depends on what you ask and what they think might help you to move forward. Ti once said, to be found in the book “UFO Missionaries Extraordinary” that when humans pray it goes to where they are, that is if they are praying for the truth. They also talked a little about when humans ask/pray for human things or relationships, as opposed to the ultimate form of prayer, to learn what the Older Members will is for us, so we can grow closer to them, they will sometimes send us someone who can help us get what we want, hoping we outgrow wanting human things. For instance Do said in the Beyond Human video tapes that (paraphrased), “the Lord wants you to have nice things – He just doesn’t want you to want them”. On the other hand I remember a lesson for Glnody, one of the 38 and to some degree applied to Stmody as well, both of which wrote papers in the purple book as XF recommended as well. Glnody would find himself thinking about how to improve things on earth – like how to design a better prison system I believe was one thing he pondered. Now as a human that was not consciously trying to separate from the human kingdom in order to further bond to the Older Members Next Kingdom Level, I don’t think there is any fault to be found trying to better things on Earth. But if one has left all behind to be with their Older Members who are incarnate or to be in the midst of separating from the human kingdom, by at first believing in that process and coming to see through human behavior and ways as at best stepping stones to a potential relationship, that would be a waste of time IF the Older Member didn’t provide that project to put their mind upon. There were many examples of this in the classroom. Ti and Do would give a solution to a problem. Say the bread wasn’t rising. The procedure given by Ti and Do would be to write a note to Ti and Do stating the problem. To include a remedy would be using their mind unless the remedy had come from Ti and Do. This can seem like they are dictators, but what’s really happening is they are training us in the chain of command – where to go to get answers. Then when they provide an answer it becomes information that is ours just like I’m sharing with you now. They never answered a question that was exactly like yours, at least not that I was every aware of, so it gives me the opportunity to “pull” (their word) on their Mind (what they have given before) that might apply to that question to answer it. The training to look to them first is just that, training as in any laboratory or military or other service organization where the leadership want to be able to trust their crew to be a team player rather than a lone wolf as the Next Level has no need for lone wolves who think they can come up with superior ways of doing things. There were times when Ti and Do would answer the question and a student might think they have a better way. Or Ti and Do would pause before answering and allow a student to raise their hand to come up with an answer or they would ask the student if they have any ideas. They would be genuinely interested to hear their ideas but it pleased them most when the idea’s they heard back resembled some instruction they gave to a similar question. The most right answer was not what was sought after. Ti and Do did this naturally though I’m not saying they didn’t set us up sometimes, to see if we would parrot back something they said or indicated or whether we would come up with our own ideas. I actually got a strong lesson along these lines. Do had gathered some of the overseers together to talk about a situation. I offered an idea on it. Later on that day Do said to me “You are competing with me”. I didn’t understand why but I thought about it and understood. Because I had been given many tasks to work directly with Do over the years and was assigned craft overseer tasks and was in the inner circle to so speak, I built up my ego about it. It became clear to me after failing and leaving that it was that ego that I needed to overcome. As it worked with Ti and Do, just because you were assigned a responsible task didn’t mean you were elevated or older than those that did not have that assignment. By the way, this can be seen with a number of dropouts. In any case, intellectualism is fine of course but if you want to overcome your humanness, you will be most interested in what the Older Member gave for us to do now, at this time, which is not to try to fix the human kingdom or earth or even to help people as a humanitarian. Those are all good pursuits before this latest incarnate Older Member came and it’s not that we can’t help others or assist in doing things to help the earth, so to speak but our primary task would be to, study all Ti and Do said and did and believe it all and believe they represent the creators of the planet and all the life forms and be willing to “take a stand for that belief in them” accepting the ramifications in so doing.

      • Woraufhin Says:

        Thank you for your comprehensive reply, Sawyer.

        I initially considered the relationship between the intellectual and the practical in serving the Next Level in thinking about your experiences of the Next Level, which you have described in previous posts and in your videos. It in fact reminded me of St Thomas Aquinas, who is reported to have experienced a revelation shortly before his death that he said made everything he wrote appear to him to be of no more value than straw.

        XF: the e-mail address accessible through the link to my profile on my university’s website is my academic e-mail address. I will be happy to reply to e-mails sent to that address to confirm my identity. I understand your caution, as I have seen several posts posted by the troll you mention. I cannot recall how I first became aware of Heaven’s Gate in 2010. I was born in 1986, so I suspect I was too young and in the wrong part of the world to hear about Heaven’s Gate during the 1990s. When I said I had listened to all the audible recordings available on 4shared, I meant the ones of such a quality that I could listen to them comfortably: namely, those in MP3 format. There were around five or six, as I recall.

      • sawyer Says:

        Have you heard these. They are pretty clear?

        There are three in this series. Search my site, 3spm for “Blackhawk” where they were recorded.

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