Q and A – Did Ti and Do (Heaven’s Gate founders) feel emotions?

Here are some questions I was asked on this blog, followed by my reply that has mainly to do with Ti and Do’s show of emotion:

Questions:

“Hello, I know you don’t know me and I’m a random stranger but If im not mistaken you were part of the heavens gate group for a long time and I have a few questions about Do(Marshall Applewhite) and the group. Some people believe that Marshall didn’t feel any emotions, and he didn’t care about his classroom or his students. During the time you with him, did he ever show any degree of emotion? And this may be personal but when Ti(Bonnie Nettles) from cancer, was Marshall devastated, did you see him cry? Or emotionally distraught? Second, I’ve studied and researched about the heavens gate group for a good while and I’ve come to notice that Marshall seemed to dislike the world, hated it. Why? Was it because people were cruel to one another and such? And lastly, during the time you were in the group, how were the other members like? From what I’ve heard they seemed pretty nice and good honest people looking for a meaning to life. Oh and one last question, Was Doh, controlling of you guys or was he laid back type of person? Thank you for your time”

Sawyer’s response:

Yes, we all showed emotion. However, we were to control our emotions – self-control, whether anger or happiness but it’s not like it was laid out in a measured way. For instance an angry outburst would have certainly been a slippage but there was no prescribed punishment except for acknowledging our slippage before the group of other students in a “slippage meeting” (that was a little embarrassing) and including a “remedy” to have better control in the future. If we watched something on television or went to a movie and something was funny we laughed but if our laughter was bursting at the seams, rolling on the floor that probably would have been brought up at a meeting as out of control. It certainly would not be wrong for someone not trying to overcome their humanness in Ti and Do’s program to roll on the floor. After all this was voluntary and not coerced and no one was lured or manipulated (though of course there are those who would say it was manipulation to think Ti and Do were from the Kingdom of Heaven in outer space, their souls that is) but for all practical vantage points day-to-day participation was completely voluntary which shows in the amount of people who said they believed but over the years drifted off or were coaxed to leave by Do or were instructed to leave by Do or were sent to a half way house type of arrangement to get better control or sent to be with their human families again that turned into a type of lure back into the world. However, they made no bones about leaving the classroom as being a failure to complete one’s “task” to get control over one’s vehicle to graduate the human kingdom. It just wasn’t drilled into us or used as leverage to guilt us into staying. We did have to measure up to stay.

Yes, I saw Do shed tears on a number of occasions. I also saw Ti shed tears on a couple of occasions. One of those occasions was related to Ti’s exit of her vehicle. Do certainly was distraught. He certainly depended on Ti and loved her, though it was never anything physical or human – He loved her Mind. He told us he gave Ti a hard time for the first year or so as it took being together day and night traveling around the country trying to figure out what their task was exactly – what were the updates to the bible they knew their Minds were sent to bring and what were the prophecies they were sent to fulfill. Ti never told Do she was his “Older Member” (heavenly Father). He came to know it because of how Ti thought and the choices she made that summed up the options more quickly and more accurately, where Do felt he needed to try things Ti knew would not pan out to their task needs.

Crying as in sobbing was considered to be giving into that form of sensuality. Even jumping up and down at that sight of a beautiful sunset would have been giving into that form of sensuality. All pleasure was not prohibited. It simply needed to be a “pleasure” They provided, such as a nice dessert or some type of sport exercise – we had a track to run on at one of our “crafts” in south Austin and had an indoor racquetball court in another in Paradise Valley and an indoor pool in texas and others with outdoor pools, though in each there were “procedures” on how to use them and how often and became lesson opportunities on how to enjoy them “in the way a member of the Next Level would do”.

I can’t speak to exactly how Do thought about the “world” before he was awakened by and with Ti, except that he, his vehicle (that was prepared for his incarnation (taking over for his Next Level task) dropped out of seminary because they were too restrictive of what to study and consider. At another time he said when he would go to the hollywood styled parties in Houston, as he was a popular lead role opera singer in the Houston opera and a teacher of music and voice at St. Thomas University, when they would serve shrimp cocktail, the first time he had it, he went to the bathroom and threw up but then forced himself to eat it because it was expected. Just a tiny example.

He was unhappy with relationships, in the last year before awakening was turning anti-sexual, though had been in relationship with men (I don’t know how many) but that he wanted a “committed relationship” he was not finding in his high society involvements.

I know the rumors that he was so distraught over his sexuality that he allegedly checked into a mental facility as well as the rumors Ti wanted a physical relationship with him and that he went off the deep end when Ti left which then became the consideration of “suicide” which there is considerable evidence is all mis/dis-information. Do set that record straight in his booklet entitled, “’88 update – The UFO Two and Crew”. Ti never made any advances to him and he said though he wondered at first if she was trying to pick him up, he said he had no physical attraction to Ti’s vehicle and “wouldn’t dirty his mouth on Ti’s mouth” – or anyone’s mouth for that matter.

Do did kiss his students on the forehead or cheek a time or two, one time publicly in a type of marriage ceremony where students went up to him one by one and he was weepy during. He kissed me in this way on a couple of times when he was meeting with the student body individually in private that included his touching my head/face and speaking affectionately with zero touching or kissing or hugging any more than that.

Of course critics would guess he did more than that with some but there is zero evidence of that and there have been many dropouts who were drilled by media over the years before their exit and since their exit of their incarnations.

It was Ti that told the class we needed to give Them our will. And it was Ti that instructed us to make our “committal” to Do – doing so in writing though Do knew he needed to accept that position of being the focus of every students total love as Jesus said was the “first commandment” – to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength – the reason Jesus students needed to “deny self” (give their will over to their Older Member’s will for them), “take up their cross” (give their lives up in service) and “follow me” – (literally leave one’s human attachments behind to be with Jesus and abide by all his teachings during and after his exit).

There was always plenty of laughter and lightheartedness and even a time or two of outright silliness while times also of knowing that we missed the mark, got off track, disappointed them, needed to work harder on our lessons. We were certainly prodded in that way. They were not permissive of human behavior. There was no gossip or chit chatting or “familiarity” with fellow students or with Ti and Do though over the years some of what would have been called chit chat relaxed some as the student body had matured so had a sense of where to draw the lines. No chummyness. though partners were to commit themselves to helping their partners with their overcoming.

We even once had a type of marriage ceremony between assigned “partners” where we each vowed to the other our committment to help them in their overcoming of humanness and service to Ti and Do. My partner was Chkody (check-ody) a soul who had a female vehicle that actually challenged me because of my vehicle having an attraction to her vehicle (though I never permitted any kind of fantasy of being with her). However, it was difficult for me to deal with and I did tend to treat her differently because of the vehicles attraction, which was part of what I needed to overcome.

Neither Ti and Do were “laid back”, though there were certainly many times when we enjoyed a meal together or went on an outing together or watched television together. Part of our lessons were to maintain a “pleasant countenance” and not give into tiredness, maintain good posture, cleanliness, soft spoken, whispering or silent times, gentle actions whether walking or in the closing of doors – like one would imagine in a monastery without getting into a spiritual or religious dogma or holiness self grandizing, or artificial “worshipping” vibration. (That’s really very controlled as is in the many does and don’ts in society, business and politics.

We had music at times and did choral singing of christmas carols several years in a row before Ti exited. By the way, Do said Ti “burnt out her vehicle” dealing with the negativity from the many “influences” (discarnates) who attacked her especially since she was the Oldest Member incarnate. Ti and Do both took on the students influences and at times ran them off so we could have a better chance of seeing clearly.

Do did indicate he used alcohol while in the world. One time during the christmas before Ti exited we had a christmas tree and a party and we each had about a half ounce of wine in a shot glass. Do said afterwards that he didn’t like the way it affected his consciousness so would not be doing that again.

That year we were each given some money and went shopping to buy gifts for the “craft” not for one another, though some students organized the purchase of some gifts for Ti and Do. Even though it wasn’t procedure to do that, it was “taking a chance on a positive” and Ti and Do were never without consideration of the moment and the good intentions of the students as opposed to sticking to the letter of the “law”, though that could certainly have a breaking point. For instance any hint of sexuality would have been against their lessons to be permissive of.

When we were sent to visit with vehicle’s families the first time while Ti was still in her vehicle and we returned, it was approved that each student could give the returning student a hug but other than that time we generally did not hug one another and there was never any kissing between students – though on a couple of occasions a couple of students did slip and it was surfaced had been feeling one another up in a closet and in one case in 1976 in Wyoming campground two students had sex.

On one occasion when Ross Perot was running for president, Ti and Do indicated his being a businessman might be good for the country. They considered having us vote that year but we didn’t and never did in the 19 years I was with them.

It was not a solemn environment but nor was it happy-go-lucky. I would not call Ti and Do controlling at all but it was a fact that if we didn’t want to follow their teachings their classroom wasn’t the place for us. Do even offered students $2000 at one point to leave if the money would help them make that choice as he didn’t want people staying in the classroom because of how easy life became – having that infrastructure to depend upon. Ti used to call the world outside the classroom, “the real world” which always puzzled me but I grew to understand that the classroom consisted of a very “controlled environment” to where one didn’t have to worry about bills and children and social engagements and business and if one lost their job there were others with jobs to depend upon.

The control was in the design of procedures to follow which arose as needed but it was self-control yet partners were committed to pointing out to their partners when they were breaking procedure and there were other overseers with the task of providing correction to fellow students most of which was done in private and when Ti and Do corrected specific students most of the time that too was done in private or addressed in general in a meeting though there were a few exceptions.

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21 Responses to “Q and A – Did Ti and Do (Heaven’s Gate founders) feel emotions?”

  1. Nigel Says:

    Hi Sawyer,

    did Ti & Do live with the class? What was the living arrangements over the years? From what I’ve understood they generally lived seperately to the class? If so, how far away and did they visit every day or weekly?

    • sawyer Says:

      My first recollection was when we were living in tents in 1975 and were holding meetings all around Colorado I went to the camp Ti and Do had and their tent was a little seperated from the three or four student partnership tents. In Wyoming they camped with the same three or four partnerships but I never saw those camps but there were about 100 in the group then split into 4-6 camps – I was never sure. During those times in Wyoming where the first “classroom” really began, where 19 were arranged to leave the larger group by Ti and Do, we had meetings with them maybe three times a week at the most and would be in different places in the national forest. Soon after that we got more tents and had a big meeting tent and a big tent for consuming. This was when we lived on large ranches – they paid a rancher for use of. We also eventually had generators in those camps, but sticking to your question, by then Ti and Do had a small trailer and they had it situated as part of the Camp where all 70 or so students were. I’d say the trailer was at the most 50 yards from the student tent city and we weren’t allowed to venture behind the trailer that faced the woods while one side faced us because we had a tent set up called “central” where students would take turns on a 12 minute cycle standing in that tent for 1 minute in case Ti and/or Do signaled in the window to have 1 or 2 students who were standing there to offer that service, come to their window or door to take something or get an instruction to go find a particular student and have them come to the trailer to talk to them through the window so we would see their face talking to us. In that camp we probably had about the same kind of meeting schedule but there were frequent times where they were working with the Nutri-lab crew when we started up with Nutri-lab, having before then each partnership made their own food. They would give each partnership money and they would go into town all on the same day to buy groceries and there were no food guidelines. Fudge was popular for some.

      Then when we moved into houses at first they were someplace else with their trailer while we were all in one house. In Evergreen, CO they parked their trailer on the driveway to the house but would’t be there all the time.

      I remember we all moved into a house near San Antonio where they had part of the house for their quarters. It was a big place and again if there was a task they would be mingling some and with about the same meeting schedule.

      We had problems with neighbors in that craft and when we left that place, for a while they had another craft – house and by then no longer had the trailer.

      A bunch of crafts and a couple years later, we went back to living in trailers. We had 3 40 foot fifth wheel trailers and another big tailer. One was what Ti and Do used and I don’t think any students shared that with them and one was for a group of students they used for administrative purposes and each tailer was called Sat1, Sat2 and Sat3 where sat3 was that group. We were very departmentalized by then and their trailer was parked in a tailer park near the others but we had no procdures to wander around though mananged to all squeeze into one for a meeting once.

      then they bought a house in Amarillo and later regretted buying it. Anyway the next time I recall them living in the same place as us was in the craft in Dallas near white rock lake where they eventually moved to their own craft where Ti exited her vehicle from. In that mockingbird lane craft they had a section of the house but as with the other places ate their meals in their quarters and had about the same kind of meeting schedule except when they traveled so it could be a week or two or so between meetings then.

      Sometimes they had a craft in a different town and even in a different state but in those cases students would take turns traveling to stay with them for two nights and would have several meetings that were taped for those that weren’t there. When it talks about Ti being cared for by the wings of an eagle in Rev 12 it was interesting that one of those “retreat crafts” (that by the way in that circumstance they had 3 student partnerships living with them in that place) was in Blackhawk, colorado probably close to 7,000 feet.

      Maybe once or twice a month they would travel to have a meeting with the entire group then.

      After Ti exited Do was in the same craft as us many times but we also often had two student crafts in the same area generally but occasionally one was in california with Do there – In one of john Wayne’s old houses in Newport beach, California on an inlet while the other student craft was in Dallas.

      Most of the time I would say Do had seperate quarters then and had Lvvody and Jnnody as his helpers living in the same craft but with different “rest chambers”. I know as I was at various times at a number of those crafts or in some cases warehouses we lived in trailers inside of.

      Oh, after Ti left in some crafts Do starting consuming 3rd Experiment with us but not all the time but would sometimes watch television with us and have tea and a dessert with us. We did no talking during consuming but that got relaxed when student had learned to restrain themselves and give the lead to their Older Member who didn’t want to interrupt his digestion task with trying to answer questions.

      They told us early on that they could only stand to be around us for short periods of time until most got a handle on their “influences” negativity, sensuality, and other lower vibes like complaining or being competitive minded, etc.

      Sometimes they felt they needed to leave the vicinity of the students so the Next Level could give certain lessons to the students that Ti and Do being there might interfer with. They even moved us away from certain towns saying the influences were too strong and they felt they got instruction to limit our stay. That was near Salt Lake City, Utah.

      But as most in the class refined their behavior and ways they could spend more time with us but it was also “draining” on them, which was moreso on Do that physically affected him someimes but they never complained about because it meant the students were thirsty for the next steps in the overcoming process.

      With some regularity we were falling down on the job of “pulling” for next steps and embracign fully the previous steps and they would have a meeting and tell us we were “dragging our feet” on making certain changes. It would have been one student doing the most foot dragging and we wouldn’t know who is was, or at least I wouldn’t know but then somtimes that studente would leave and they would say they knew what they were dealing with because of the kinds of thoughts they were having to deal with that otherwise never bothered them anymore if at all.

  2. Woraufhin Says:

    I’d be interested to know your interpretation of the relationship between God and the Word (Logos) in the opening verses of the Gospel of John. Do you understand those verses as relating to the priority of Next Level mind?

    • sawyer Says:

      Yes I think so but the best I can come up with to bring plainer talk to greek logos used there, that was provided by Ti and Do (though I never heard them talk about it related to the “word”) would be “instruction” which is kin to what is shown in Strongs as “communication” and better yet “speaking communication” as the most dependable kind from incarnte Older Members. I think the term God there is the general depiction of deity and when examing the other words “with” seems to mean “to, towards” and “was” = “agree” which is like saying students need to agree (covenant) with the instructions provided by the Next Level through their representative to grow towards and to be “with” the Older Members, thus the instruction is our “God” and that is from the Mind or Holy Spirit, as Ti and Do said Mind is synonymous with “spirit”, which is also as greek pneuma = “breath” and what is delivered in that breath but the instructions (communication) and “program” (which is provided to students as part of their “deposit”). The “program” is the “instruction” that when applied/exercised – acted on, abided by, is our graft to that Next Level Representative “vine”. Without what they say to us using words we have nothing to build upon. I know this can be said far better and I could be off on it but I think I’m in the ballpark. So yes, we need to grow to make every word from our Older Members our priority to adopt and that can be accomplished by asking Their help and strength to help us with.

  3. Woraufhin Says:

    I’ve long been intrigued by the apparent contradiction in the first verse of the Gospel of John. For it says on the one hand that the Word was ‘with’ or ‘towards’ (pros) God, but then that God ‘was’ the Word. I could be wrong; but I’m inclined to interpret that, in light of what Do says in the ‘Beyond Human’ tapes, as meaning that members of the Next Level can be at one with one another, in the sense of communicating with each other perfectly and agreeing fully in their objectives, whilst remaining distinct individuals.

    • sawyer Says:

      Sounds good to me. A big part of the lesson plan was “giving one’s will” up to the Older Members but that was a “way” of Next Level Members to not be “right” but to “do right”. It doesn’t matter to the members who has the right answer – the answer their Older Member would give, it only matters that they arrive at that answer. Ti and Do said that in the Next Level we would become an individual for the first time and that communication by thought is much better which was one of the practical reasons we needed to limit our words and only talk when needed for the task at hand and then making every word count.

      My understanding, though is that there isn’t necessarily total agreement because the members are given tasks where they don’t have access to what the Older Members would do in any given circumstance because it’s all a changing universe so though there are certainly standards if members can’t “check” with their older member when they don’t have a procedure to describe how to handle a circumstance then they would take their best shot and then check at first opportunity. One of the key phrases on making decisions was to “cover your bets” and “take a chance on a positive” and “if in doubt don’t”. When working with a check partner it was always an asking kind of relationship. For instance it was common language to say to our partner “what do you think” which was really saying, “what do you think our Older Member would think about or do in this circumstance”. We were taught to do that with gestures to get us out of the habit of talking and to stimulate our need to stay focused on the task at hand. For instance making an experiment – say mac and cheese – both partners would do the measuring of salt, cheese, etc. One would be the primary and the other the secondary. The primary would do the task and the secondary check everything they do. If you were measuring salt, it was the task for both to make a point to read the measuring spoon used to get the right size and then read the entire recipe through as the first step actually. One wouldn’t finish the measurement until they knew their partner saw it. In some tasks there were more variables so partners had to work things out. The more tasks you performed the more you learned and the more responsabilities one is given and with responsabilities less oversight as one could be trusted by their Older Member to seek answers by “pulling” on the Mind of our Older Member.

    • sawyer Says:

      As far as learning to quiet our mind, by less talk and less mental chatter that reduces focus on the task at hand – not thinking about anything else but what’s relative to the task, if we didn’t learn to train our vehicle in this, if we were theoretically allowed to be even in observation of Next Level members in their tasks, say in a lab, our lack of thought control would be like static. The Members of the Next Level would be aware of us so theoretically distracted, though that may never happen because that’s the point to learning to have the control before we are issued a new next level vehicle. I don’t know how much direct interface what I would call student level members of the Next Level have with adult Next Level members. Ti and Do’s task was geared to the adult member graduation but as Do expressed knew some of those 38 would still have overcoming of humanness to complete before being issued an adult Next Level vehicle. Prophecy shows a distinction between what I am calling a student Next Level vehicle and an adult Next Level vehicle. Do used to say that “adultery” was “not becoming an adult” having to do with our abiding by the current lesson plan provided by the Older Members when they are incarnate as shown by the three categories of individuals who would go with them – not be recycled.

    • sawyer Says:

      re: giving our will to the Older Members, as I understand it, that pertains to the classroom – to qualify to stay in the classroom but once functioning in the Next Level each member retains their free will so theoretically could do whatever they want as the Luciferians did, but that Ti said caused the Next Level to “raise the bar” on what it would take to graduate to even that student level membership. But I believe Ti and Do indicated that no one would be pushed into doing anything so could grow at their own pace and would be provided with choices of which departments to have tasks. Someone who doesn’t like to do things wouldn’t even make it into the Next Level so this is theoretical to point out.

  4. XF Checker 97 Says:

    Interesting read, Sawyer. Thanks for this. If I were you, I would do a video version of this where you speak on camera about the same thing.

  5. sawyer Says:

    I re-read this blog post and noticed I indicated Do “coaxed” some to leave”. That’s not accurate to say. Coaxed implys he wanted them to leave and I don’t think that was ever the case with any student and I was close enough to Do in the later years, especially after Ti left to see the toll it took on him when anyone would leave. I believe he genuinely loved every student as much as a parent could love their child but as any parent knows sometimes there needs to be “tough love” as humans call it, though in Ti and Do’s case never amounted to humans ways of administering tough love. For instance if a student failed at a task they generally lost that task. Since tasks were what we all thrived on having – service to our Older Members – the Next Level way – equivilent to the way any human loves to work for someone supporting what they recognize is a greater overall effort – sports team, military, corporate, family buisness, etc. Our tasks were for the Chief of Chiefs though and for Ti, who Do later referred to as a “chief administrator” in the Next Level and for Do our Older Member – our firsts link in that chain of Mind.

    So when Do offered us $2000 if it would help us decide to leave the classroom, I have no doubt it pained him to even make that offer but I believe it was instruction from Ti (who was at that time outside the human vehicle He had taken).

    Even when he instructed Mrcody and Srfody to leave the classroom saying they could return if they wanted to abide by all the instructions and procedures, I’m sure it was painful for him. Before that, at one point after we had a number of “help wanted” meetings called for Mrcody who didn’t want to abide by the “I could be wrong” lesson step – saying those words or the equivilent before any statement of fact – that was related to the admission that in any circumstance what we personally decide is a fact may not be what our Older Member would see as a fact.

    But before they were instructed to leave which was delivered to them indivdiually by every remaining student – repeating the same instruction while Do was not present, during a meeting Do held mrcody in his arms while sitting so that it looked like mrcody was his baby. It was very odd to see a grown human vehicle holding another grown human vehicle the way one would hold a baby. No doubt that became a test for other students to deal with.

    And when I fell, having given into sexuality with myself that I was not able to find the controll to stopping, at one point Jnnody (one of Do’s primary two “helpers” that started as helpers with Ti) sort of reprimanded me, saying something to the affect of, “Do you know what this is doing to Do? – indicating or offering me some incentive to snap out of it. But I was still such a child, my “self” was mostly what I cared about, though I didn’t recognize that “booger”‘s influence over me.

    After all this was after I had been a primary helper on a number of the Beyond human video shoots and other such tasks and many other tasks working directly with Do, even at one point considered by Do to have me as a “helper” he told me, but how he needed to protect his own vibration, part of why he chose students with female vehicles, though I believe that was planned well before that so that the eldest students took those female vehicles. I have a number of reasons to believe the Four “Living Beings” depicted in Revelations as “BEASTS” but is a blatent misinterpretation were most fulfiled by Lvvody, Jnnody, Jwnody and Lggody, the first three of which were in female vehicles, while Lggody didn’t deal with sexuality so had overcome that vibration before then. (I know this because I was his partner a time or two and he told me he didn’t deal with any of that).

    So “coaxing” really only took the form of the offering of money to leave IF that could be a reason to leave.

    And of course being offered, even encouraged to visit the vehicles family that occurred twice, once by Ti’s instigation before her exit of her vehicle and then two years later after she had exited, was a type of coaxing but again I don’t think with a desire for anyone to leave because of, though they knew could become a possability, and did end up resulting in at least one students leaving the class that I know of – rthody.

    Ti and Do told us that every evening they would go over each student in their Minds, seeking their Older Member’s help on how to help each with their specific overcoming of humaness needs.

    When they said they “adopted” us in 1978, when we got the ody names (that the ody name represented the same for those that joined in 1994 and the few thereafter, they lived that parental role.

    When we acted like humans, even a few of us, they were disturbed by it and told us so as a group. One time Ti and Do drove into camp where we had just set up in the mountains amidst about a foot of snow that had fallen, in the forest south of provo, utah and they saw 3-4 students standing around a campfire, some with coffee cups in their hands chatting away and Ti said it looked so human to see. This was in 1977-8, before the ody adoptions and before a lot of group organization that came later.

    I believe they indicated in the Next Level there were times members had no specific tasks to do, when one might just enjoy the scenery and sounds in space. They wouldn’t get together and shoot the breeze, reminisce. Communication was purposeful so this was human to see and we were in their program to overcome humanness by their directions so it became a lesson for all to apply, as they often said about lessons, “if the shoe fits”.

  6. Paul of Seattle Says:

    My understanding is Do abandoned his wife and children, so that may not be the analogy I would choose to use. It comes with that baggage.

    Maybe a Jesus/disciple analogy would work better? I don’t know, but I think most people would recoil in shock if the word “parent” is used to describe Do.

    Me and a couple of friends have been studying the group over the years — one of them is very sensitive about the use of the term “parent” because she was abandoned by her father at a young age. That is something she needs to overcome, but using “parent” invites that kind of a reaction in a way.

    • sawyer Says:

      Do’s unawakened vehicle, Marshall Applewhite’s wife and children were not living with him for some significant time before meeting Ti. I don’t know if he was paying child support. What is the evidence and meaning of “abandonment”. When we are not specific it’s a wide open door for misinformation. Whenever we had problems in the classroom Ti and Do wanted the specifics of the situation not generalizations. The devil is in the ommission of details very often. It’s worth the added words and time to be thorough for the sake of accuracy. In divorce it’s common for one parent to retain custody of children and the other to have visitation rights. I don’t recall if he visited his children, nor do I know what the complaint was and by whom. (I have a little memory of reading things his x-wife said that complained about his lifestyle and that he did have some contact with his children, but I’m not saying this as a record but it can be reseached to know for sure which I am not going to be that thorough about now).

      Even so, it is the modus operandi when taking steps to enter the Next Level that “seperation” from ones human root systems is part of the process and is especially mandatory to completely dissolve to be in the third trimester classroom as we saw Ti and Do require, while for the second trimester classroom complete seperation appeared to be optional for some as Jesus was quoted to say. That seperation will be physical, mental and emotional, but it’s all regulated by the incarnate Older Member. When the Older Member is not incarnate, it’s according to each person’s descision as they seek the will of Their Older Member for them and seek to apply the classrooms behaviors and ways and “standing for the Older Member” and all Their teachings and accept the consequences that will also become seperation degrees, even seperation from one’s vehicle’s life on behalf, which is a big part of “giving one’s life” to one’s Older Member to anticipate by standing for Him.

      That modus operandi is expressed by Jesus as:

      Mat 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken ((sent away, departed)) houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

      “for my names sake” is critical as people do forsake these things all the time for all manner of self centered reasons and can even use scripture as a justification to escape certain challenges, though if they do I believe that’s between them and the Next Level to judge.

      Thus even “abandoning”- turning your back on those acquired human responsabilities, though should not be done irresponsibly and insensitively (as Ti and Do taught) and by asking the Next Level to help us with our seperation, is part of ceasing to remain in the human family and like most everything is a “process” as all are not ready to seperate to the same degree at the same time and this is all about our free will to give our will to our Older Members hands while taking steps in the directions provided by their teachings while looking to Them for how they feel about those steps taken. In this way one is strengthening their relationship with their Older Member. When They are incarnate and we are with them, then we do this by the instructions they give us, Ti and Do called “checking” that involved having a partner and crew and overseers and note writing to the Older Members and often making choices to perform tasks without knowing if it’s the best option, the option the Older Members would choose, but then by reporting those choices finding out for sure. As they are not incarnate now we don’t have that clear knowing whether our choices are par with Theirs.

      Do did say about a year before meeting Ti his life started falling apart which he realized was his Mind from the Next Level preparing the vehicle for the task his vehicle was “tagged” to perform. I know that “falling apart” has to do with both losing respect for human behaviors and ways and all the associated pillars of human existence – family, career, relationships, etc., so perhaps his divorse happened at that time.

      re: use of the word “parent” – I only use that because that’s essentially what one’s “Father” is as the Next Level is also a “family”, though Ti and Do from my recollection didn’t refer to their Older Member as their “parent” but did refer to their Older Member as their Heavenly Father. Even though Do came to know that Ti was his Older Member I never heard him refer to Ti using the term “Father”.

      I understand that we all have buttons pushed by terminology. I don’t know how to avoid that as today there may not be many words that can not become such a “button” to someone. If we knew of another’s “button” I think Ti and Do might choose for us to try not to push it but if we do, the person then can take it as an opportunity to grow past letting that “buttom” affect their vibration. We never want to be the instrument of our own or another’s tests consciously. The tests will come. However, if someone asks us for help with something that is a challenge for them to deal with, then we would be respecting that person’s wishes to grow by bringing up to them things we observe in the vein of their asking of us. In the classroom that took the form of saying to one’s partner regularily, (but not made into a vain repetition), “if you see me doing anything that is not according to Ti and Do’s teachings, bring it to my attention”. Still if that is asked of us, we want to think about how Ti and Do would have us bring something up which will be a trial and error process and yet another lesson step to deliver.

      Even though I wouldn’t claim the adandoning of a child was a good thing, her dealing with it and growing from it would be, even if it showed her that humans can not be ultimately depended upon to do the right thing, which I would think fosters a degree of seperation from the human kingdom, unless it becomes the source of bitterness and other such negatives. Ti and Do taught that The Next Level are masters of turning negatives into positives and that no matter what happens to us, we can make a positive from it.

      In terms of the triggers of terms, when we know a certain word triggers a certain feeling we don’t want to have or a certain memory we don’t like or find to be a positive, then we “nip it in the bud” – cut off that thought, “put up a blank card” as if compared to the cue cards in a theatre so it’s like erasing that thought and then holding that cue card up while changing one’s focus and/or circumstance and then assume it’s gone. We had a lot of lessons about this. Reading Ti’s “power of goodness” and actually using all the meditations and little affirmations they provided us are excellent tools to help us raise our vibrations. If you don’t have them let me know and I’ll send you those materials as they are not in the purple book or in any of the video tapes but may be found in the audio tapes. Rkkody provided them. We each had a little 3×5″ size notebook with these in them. For the first couple weeks of receiving them we had procedure to use them, read them, one or more times a day but then it because optional as needed. This way it was each students free will to continue to exersize the use of that tool, so not an imposed lesson step. The same with listening to tapes. At times we were required to re-listen to certain meeting tapes Ti and Do made but then it became optional though encouraged, which again shows that growth was according to each students efforts not force-fed.

  7. Woraufhin Says:

    Did Ti and Do say anything about how human bodies first came into existence, e.g. whether they were a product of evolution? I could be wrong, but knowing about the history of human bodies might be useful in the overcoming process.

    • sawyer Says:

      In general, yes part of the Next Level’s design of evolutiounary processes – in kingdom levels – mineral to plant to animal to human, though human’s are unique to earth, unless the Next Level had another prison they used the inmates of (luciferian space aliens) to make into an equivilent experiment. See the blackhawk tapes.

      They also have labs. One lab example they said was “based on the truth” so they weren’t saying was necessarily the case, was the Pluto was an “earth lab” having a working model of some sort inside pluto standing as high as the biggest skyscrapers, that had like 4 observation decks around it with each deck having huge screens of specific events on earth that technicians were observing and communicating about. it was all in a painting ollody was tasked to paint as a part of the movie script they tasked at the same time that was refused by Gary Kirsh – a big producer one of the students knew and had worked for before joining with Ti and Do (cddody).

      • Woraufhin Says:

        Thanks. I’ve come to think of the overcoming process and human life in general as though we were each given an old computer with an old operating system, old software, various viruses, and so forth that we must try to fix while we have it. Do seems to be suggesting a similar idea when he warns the class about playing ‘old tapes’.

      • sawyer Says:

        sounds like Ti and Do thinking to me – out with the old thoughts in with the new – updating our “programs” – terms and concepts, behaviors and ways via the input and examples from the REPS.

  8. Woraufhin Says:

    The most difficult part of the overcoming process in my experience is preventing old memories (‘old tapes’) from hindering our progress by distracting us from pursuing the ways of the Next Level. For although one can detach oneself from the world, it is more difficult to detach oneself mentally from the past of one’s body or vehicle. What was the most valuable advice you have received from Ti and Do about dealing with distracting memories?

    • sawyer Says:

      That’s why we left all behind – to go with Ti and Do literally in part to accomplish better – get a new start on. Changing everything – surroundings, friends, etc. I have to admit that was not hard for me to do in 1975 as I had already detached from my past – family when I moved to Canada and then to the oregon coast. It was a little hard to stop thoughts I still had for my partner who I had been living with for that previous 5 years who also joined but who Ti and Do seperated us into different groups so we only ran into one another on occasion. When we did it was arkward and we were both guarded but they were short contacts. Then when in the same craft together I think we both had detached enough that there was no lure to be together but all along the technique was to “put up a blank card” in our mind whenever we’d even sense a thought we knew would be from such a “tape” trying to play.

      The blank card was like the cue cards one would see on a movie set given to actors with their lines on them or telling them where to stand, etc. So envisioning a “blank” card was like erasing it, but one did not linger on the blank card but put them mind on something else. We did have a few mantras to use, to fill our thoughts with thoughts that came from Ti and Do instead of hearing old tapes play.

      But the biggest ways to deal with such is to not frequent places that would stimulate such thoughts, nor mingle with people that stimulate such thoughts – nor do things that we used to do that would have their memories in association.

      This is all part of the reason for changing terminology on things as it was converting that human mind to Next Level mind, no matter how insignificant looking. If we were talking about where we lived and referred to it as a house that would be using our human mind as opposed to saying it was our “craft” which would have been using Ti and Do’s mind since that term came from them.

      I’ll be writing a bunch about this – as it’s in my book now, but I suspect there will be one or more times to come where there will be an event that we will have a sense is a “call” to leave all behind, as it says:

      Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
      Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
      Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
      Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
      Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
      Luk 17:31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
      Luk 17:32 Remember Lot’s wife.
      Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
      Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
      Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
      Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
      Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

      I suspect this event could be like seeing Do’s armada in the visible sky/heavens for instance.

      I suggest being ready to leave before then so when it happens, if you want to, you can just take off.

      Where will we go, was on my mind for a long time and I think I’ve arrived at what Ti and Do might say and it would be in the area of Magdelena, New Mexico and that vicinity in a type of triangle that connects to Manzano where Do and Crew started building their “earthship” “fortress” they called it and then down south to Mountainaire. One would be asking for guidence from Ti and Do of course. And I’m not saying what we would do upon arrival in that area. Try to live as best we can according to the way Ti and Do had their students live.

      But before this time, I think it’s important to show Ti and Do we want to be their student by “standing for them”. Just going to a wilderness area and expecting to be saved or beamed up or part of a group I think could be a distortion if we are then avoiding “standing for Ti and Do” which can become a full time studentship town to town or even within a city where there are opportunities to set up meetings to share info and such.

      Overcoming our humanness goes hand in hand with providing service and all is part of seperating from our humanness and attaching more to Ti and Do’s mind.

      • Woraufhin Says:

        I have tried my best to put my house in order in accordance with the final ‘Beyond Human’ tapes and will be as well prepared as possible.

        Do you think that speaking to people in person is still the most effective way of informing them about Ti and Do? I could be wrong; but in my experience, many people in our societies have become so immersed in digital communication that they often show contempt for face-to-face communication.

      • sawyer Says:

        I don’t think there is a best way as any way will be best if you come across someone who is thirsty to any degree. With that said, it wasn’t an accident that Do and Crew left their web site and encouraged that all their materials be provided to people who might want to know more about them, so where else can that be done better than online. What I do is set up news feeds by key words for articles I’m interested in and then look at comments to those articles and respond to some with little tid bits or a snapshot of the whole enchilada, whatever I feel. Many people are still searching, so it’s still seed spreading time. My opinion is that in the not too distant future, maybe even under 10 years time Do and Crew will signal their presence in a way that every eye will be able to see in the very near heavens, as their “armada” as Do suggested was possible. (He and Ti never spent any time on what if’s so even a tiny suggestion should be taken as a liklihood of manifestation. When that happens it will trigger the time of the “wrath of God” and humans all over the planet will flee to their underground facilities while trying to protect their surface interests. The internet for all of us may become inaccessible at that time and I believe that will signal the “gathering” of believers in Ti and Do but to include anyone who has not sided with the “BEAST” – the poisonous mammal one world government and allies that will be by then more and more in place though not as one organized unit anymore than it already is. The more and more I look at the revelations prophecies to still be fulfilled the more I see Armageddon as the area within and around Magdelena and Manzano/Mountainaire, New Mexico as a gathering place, I would say in the National forests and/or on BLM land or on private lands from ranchers that give permission.

        Until then of course as much as each of us wants to do to seperate from our humanness the better for our graft to Ti and Do’s Mind.

        But I don’t want to underestimate the power in face to face communications. It can be harder but it can also be more effective and especially if we go about our time asking Ti and Do to lead us to how we can serve Them and then when ideas pop into our heads or we scan local papers and any forms of advertisement for social gatherings to any degree, if we feel attracted to something then we keep on asking and even making plans to attend and see how it comes together to where we may go so such events and again asking not necessarily looking at each person we come accross as a “prospect” but letting other people show an interest in you as a casual contact or because of something they see we have in common that stimulates some conversation to which IF it feels right can become yet another seed planting. To me demonstrations are very fertile ground where people are looking for change but may not know what’s the greatest change they are capable of. Like I went to a rainbow gathering a month ago and mostly played my djembe and flute but in the course of about 6 hours had little conversations with 3 people. One wanted to know my name so I said, “sawyer heavensgate” and we didn’t talk about anything but to me that’s a tiny seed potential. (By the way, I think of that as Sawyer standing up for heaven’s gate – at the entrance to the gate, which is Do) not that I am the gate except for how any of those who want to be become a part of that gate when we seek to graft to Do the gate). Another person I said a few things about the lights on ceres and how I don’t believe they are space aliens because the space aliens were grounded to earth by the Next Level. He was interested but not that much so perhaps another seed for later growth. The third person looked my way and started conversation while I was playing drums and flute in the drum circle. I told him I had a message I wanted to deliver, being the reason I was at the gathering and he said, okay, what is it and so I gave him a nutshell and then another nutshell about the ceres lights and other things – Ti and Do, hale bopp comet companion, two witnesses, etc. and he seemed attentive. One can tell when someone is saturated by what we have to say. They start to yawn or their eyes will roll up into the top of their heads, not seemingly on purpose as some do, which I usually take as an indication I gave enough. Another person I met was I believe a functional autistic person who was visibly very upset and frustrated by the way there was no help for him to have access to further education after high school. For him, I didn’t think laying on him such an intense message was being asked for and just didn’t feel right but I put my hand on his shoulder to try to help him relax and have some peace of mind over his frustration and he said thank you for that and it too felt like a seed of sorts. I’m not saying I’m the best example of all this. I am just trying to be an example of what Ti and Do and Crew might do. A crew did visit a rainbow gathering in 1994 so it wasn’t without precedent for me to do that.

        Then for when we feel to do even more of course we can always organize a little meeting like by renting a room in a library or something and then advertising it locally – I wouldn’t use our vehicle’s name in the meeting nor give anyone a way to contact us where we live – best to protect our environments vibration as even the most well intended when in the physical presence of someone who is consciously working for Ti and Do will be subject to battles with other’s influences that could make it harder on us to keep our own environment free from such.

        I definitely feel all students should (if they want to) get engaged in the service of standing for Ti and Do – in person and on line as much as they can keeping their feeler thirsting for how, what, where and when they can perform that service. I have my bags packed should I feel strongly to get up and go as when Do comes back with his armada it will again be “as a thief” as to the timing though those who “keep their garments” will see the signs growing closer though some of us may already be living on the road so to speak before then. Having a setup to live on the road like in a van or with a trailer I think would all be a good investment. I’d have a tent, a cook stove, a large water jug, a way to sponge bath everyday like in a basin, a way to hand wash laundry or use a laudromat and even some backup funds. I understand that wal mart lets people park in their lots and police at times tell transient people to go to wal marts to do so.

        I think it’s good to try to put your affairs in order anticipating such a departure.

  9. sawyer Says:

    I don’t think I addressed what about the world Do hated. Mllody made a little video tape I saw somewhere talking about the part in the records that said, if you don’t hate your mother, father…etc. you can not be my disciple. It wasn’t hate as if you wanted bad things to happen to them or saw them as evil or couldn’t stand to be in their presence or didn’t value what they did for you, your vehicle before you the returning soul took it over.

    But a human who is not in the same grade so is not actively seeking to ovrecome their humanness can hardly not be someone who would dispprove of their adult “loved one”‘s choices to detach by joining what they see as a dangerous cult. Thus those x-family members autiomatically will often send their anxiety and fears and plea for us to change through our roots that though we can’t see them between humans are nonetheless real so can become like a nagging thought trying to make one feel guilty about breaking those ties. That’s what we must hate – the way those still in the world will often think they know better for us, in terms of what we should or should not do, so can be willing to even kidnap adults who join groups to deprogram them when all they are doing is then programming them with their popular cult programming, called normal because for them it is normal.

    So we absolutely must come to hate anything that would draw us back into the world, but that doesn’t necessarily take the form of hating the person who can be the instrument of that draw. But if they insist on being that draw, then what we would be hating would be the way the Luciferian space aliens Souls have convinced these once human connections to justify trying to influence us, which is a lie and deceit and the Next Level really hates lies and deceit.

    When I say “lies” that I believe would refer to things that go against what a Next Level representative said or wrote or did. If one was in danger of being arrested and put into prison then if telling a lie of some sort might get you out of that predicament, might be something the Next Level would have us to do as the Next Level isn’t concerned about following Luciferians rules except in how they keep such human authorities from interfering with our working for our Older Members.

    For instance, we had a procedure that we could drive over the speed limit by 2-3 miles per hour. Though that’s not a lie it is breaking the letter of the human law even though in many places there is a silent agreement that a certain amount of miles over the speed limit won’t result in a ticket. In one state I lived in, it was a rural area and a judge (who happened to be a guest at the high school I was substitute teaching in) told us the police wouldn’t stop someone speeding if they were only going up to 9 miles per hour above the speed limit. Yet at the same time it becomes the discretion of the officer so they can still pull you over for 1 mile over and ticket you if they don’t like something about you.

    I would say one of the biggest examples of human thinking Ti and Do might have hated about the human kingdom was how so many totally disregard the fact that this earth and all the planets and all the life forms were created – that a Next Level Above Human exists, while so many humans act as if it doesn’t or even get arrogant to hold their point of view against such a belief or pompus thinking they are certain they are saved, etc.

    I believe they hated the way humans think they own their offspring and would guilt their offspring when they get older into taking care of them when they get old or sick.

    Ti and Do had so far detached from human behavior and relationships that for them being here was like having to live in a snake pit (as Ti put it).

    I remember Do saying he hated that poster that said something like, “Jesus the same yesterday, today and tomorrow” as it made Jesus look stagnant while the real Soul who performed the task of Jesus would have learned many things from his task and would hate the idea that he was the same today.

    I know what they mean is that Jesus is consistantly dependable, but what little sayings like that don’t say is that He is only dependable for those that try to abide by and increase their abiding by He and His Father’s instructions – behaviors and ways and thus please Them. For those that abuse their teachings or participate in twisting them, They can be depended upon to reward them with their reaping what they sow – and none of us can remain secure in whether or not we are satisfying what they need to see from us. There are no resting on laurals no matter what was said in scripture. Sure those records are dependable but it’s our choice how to interpret them and apply them to our lives which in doing so will assist in our seperation from the world.

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