Sawyers critique of thefanzine.com interview with Heaven’s Gate Webmasters

The following is an article written from another interview with the Heaven’s Gate webmasters who I refer to by their original names, Mrc and Srf, (I sometimes refer to as M & S), from before they dropped out of Ti and Do’s “classroom”, with my (Sawyer’s) critique. The original link I found to this article came from: http://laist.com/2016/12/20/heavens_gate.php, but the entire text is linked to at:
http://thefanzine.com/thanksgiving-with-the-heavens-gate/

That interview text follows with my (sawyer’s) comments:

Curious: An Interview with Living Representatives of Heaven’s Gate By Troy James Weaver (TJW)

19.12.16

TJW: I was twelve years old when thirty-nine people were found dead in an apparent mass suicide just outside of San Diego. It was March 26th, 1997. I watched it play out on the news through a screen with my dad halfway across the country. They were found on their backs in bunkbeds, with a purple cloth over them—a shroud. All wore identical black pants and Nike shoes. Thirty-nine men and women ranging from twenty-six and seventy-two years old consumed a mixture of phenobarbital, applesauce, and vodka. They then placed plastic bags over their heads to speed up the process.

***
Sawyers comment: The plastic bag was insurance that their physical bodies wouldn’t go into a comma as can sometimes happen from drug ingestion.
***

TJW: Heaven’s Gate, a Christian/sci-fi amalgam founded in the 1970’s by Bonnie Nettles (Ti) and Marshall Applewhite (Do) claimed, and still claim, via their website, that what happened was not suicide, just a process that had to be undertaken to catch a ride on a UFO that was trailing behind the comet Hale-Bopp. They also seemed paranoid about an ever encroaching government who would rather see the group dismantled and killed on their terms and without dignity, as they had witnessed through the sieges of Waco and Ruby Ridge. Any way you look at it, thirty-nine people were found dead of unnatural causes.

***
Sawyers comment:

-Do and Crew (how I refer to the 38 students who laid down their lives with and for Do), who were of One Mind with Him didn’t consider their human vehicles their LIFE, because like Jesus LIFE to them meant Membership in the Kingdom of Heaven (eternal Life), what Ti and Do called the physical Evolutionary (not Darwinian) Kingdom Level Above Human. In comparison to Jesus, had they not chose to lay down their human vehicle’s lives, when the handwriting was on the wall to do so at that time, which was come upon for the 24-28 elder students after 22+ years of consideration of the exit time and method, would have been as if Jesus deceided to not orchestrate his own capture knowing his human vehicle would be killed by the Jewish heirarchy, after he received instructions to do so when he was visited and spoken to by Two Beings (of a bright white light countenence (glory)) and an audio testimony, presumably from His the “Father”, on what was called the Transfiguration Mount, that John, James and Peter witnessed:

Luk 9:28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
Luk 9:29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
Luk 9:30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

Luk 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

Luk 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Do said this was when Jesus had “changed over” his human vehicle, so that upon it’s death (the vehicle that is) his internal Soul body was “viable” (metamorphosed, Jesus described as Born Again of Spirit/Mind) to have the capacity to “heal himself” of the wounds his vehicle received at the Sanhedren and Roman hands.

Thus this is when Jesus officially came into LIFE (again, as he had come into LIFE before the world began) and at that stage was instructed by his Older Member (Father) to demonstrate that attributes of his new LIFE to his disciples by proving he was NOT a Spirit, was flesh and bone, could be touched and could eat and drink and yet could disappear before their eyes and could levitate above the sea and into the cloud covered physical spacecraft.

So this to Do and Crew, wasn’t any more a “suicide” as Jesus choice to allow his vehicle to be killed by another’s desire to kill him that he knew well of, was a type of “suicide”, remembering how Jesus said about this choice to lay down his body’s life:

Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Note Do and Crew’s documents in this regard:

Our Position Against Suicide:
https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2016/11/23/our-position-against-suicide-by-do-and-crew-posted-on-heavensgate-com/

Evolutionary “Rights” for “Victims”, By Stmody
https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2013/12/20/evolutionary-rights-for-victims/

A Matter of Life or Death? You Decide, By Wknody
https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2016/11/23/a-matter-of-life-or-death-you-decide-by-wknody/

-Their exit at that time and method was not to “catch a ride on a UFO,” though was a given as the transport but would be like saying one went to college for four years so they could ride the bus to the job they got after they graduated.

They said on the opening page of their Heavensgate.com web site: “Whether Hale-Bopp has a “companion” or not is irrelevant from our perspective,” yet is “clear to us that Hale-Bopp’s approach is the “marker” we’ve been waiting for — the time for the arrival of the spacecraft from the Level Above Human to take us home to “Their World” — in the literal Heavens.” It wasn’t just any comet as a marker (which by the way in prophecy is the same Greek word often translated to “Sign”). It came at a time when Ti and Do and later then Do and Crew had exhausted all other ways they thought their exit might occur. They even prepared to board a spacecraft with their physical bodies, the reason for packing a travel bag. They said they preferred not to exit that way but were willing to as they knew they were not those physical vehicles. They knew it was possible to be picked up. We talked about that from the start in 1977, how if the Next Level wanted to take us with our physical vehicles they would have some way of moving our Next Level Soul bodies out of the human vehicle and into the new physical vehicle, grown for each graduate, though that could only happen for each individual who had completed their “change over” that would make them “viable” in their new Next Level body, the “spirit/mind birth” Jesus spoke about, saying it needed to be accomplished through having a human physical vehicle to gain strength of mind by conquering, aka overcoming. When they saw Hale Bopp they knew it was the sign or “marker” they had been looking for since 1975.

-I don’t know what your basis is to say they were “paranoid about an ever encroaching government…”. They actually said that at one point they considered whether such a govt as seen with the Branch Davidians might be their exit ticket. They wanted to exit – there was no paranoia at all. However, an x-student named Michael in a documentary, who had turned against them, painted the picture that they were paranoid. Perhaps that’s where you got it from. But that was his spin on the truth that perhaps he never really grasped. For instance when you know there are investigators looking for you or your students, to try to pull them out of the group to try to deprogram them, is it paranoia to take precautions to not be trackable? I would say that’s logic, not paranioa. It is a fact that we learned of such investigations. We also knew that the FBI in 1976 sought to question Ti and Do regarding cattle mutilations, thinking that this UFO Cult, as the media called us then, may be behind them. That couldn’t have been further from the truth. Two FBI agents had come to a meeting Ti and Do were speaking at and asked a follower who traveled with them, to speak to them. Ti and Do didn’t want to talk to them so they left the meeting hall out a back door.  This was after the news had broke nationally that called them charlatans and many parents and family members of students were upset as their adult loved one’s choices. In 1985 when most all students visited with their human family over a weekend, one of the students, whose brother was a police officer said he hired a private eye to find his sister. He reported to her when she visited that the private eye had been in Dallas, Texas at a residence where we were living just days after we left that residence. There was also a network of parents looking for us, which was part of the reason Ti and Do had us make visits – “to calm their anxiety” since most of us had not had any contact for nearly 10 years, besides initial letters we were encouraged to send when we joined in 1975.

After the FBI and ATF attacks on the Waco, Texas Branch Davidians, Do did talk about the possability that they might exit under similar circumstances and even that we might consider provoking that response by having a weapon. Do’s saying that did put me and I’m sure others to the test but I left several years after that and when they were building what they called their “fortress” out of old tires packed with mud, they also wondered whether they would exit like the Banch Davidians did, but I am sure would not have shot at anyone with live ammunition. I could imagine they might shoot a gun off, as into the air or into the dirt. Do did end up buying a rifle or two and Strody did some target shooting while they were building the fortress near Manzano, New Mexico. They even made a point to leave the rifle in storage that they knew might be found by the human authorities and that was certainly not an oversight, knowing how thoroughly Do was about every detail of their exit, even though he may not have received a clear signal from Ti (who was outside her human vehicle by then and was monitoring the progress and his questions from a spacecraft) on what to do with the rifle, which then the rule Ti and Do often used was “if in doubt, don’t”. In other words, Do may not have received instruction on what to do with the rifle so he chose to do nothing with it. He certainly could have sold it or thrown it away so it wouldn’t be found by the human authorities.
*** end of Sawyer’s reply ***

The Tuesday before Thanksgiving Day, a friend of mine posted on Facebook: “The website for Heaven’s Gate is still operational. Food for thought.” And it got me thinking: Why not contact them myself? So I spent the next few days exchanging emails with the two ex-members who have maintained heavensgate.com since the Away Team took flight in 1997. My goal, mainly, was to ask questions I have been curious about since I was twelve, and also give them a platform to explain some of the more pressing issues people seem to have with the group.

This correspondence appears here with their permission, after quite a bit of discussion over the questions I had asked and how they would be presented.

TJW: Who are you? Why is this website still up?

rep@heavensgate.com: We were in the Group for 12 years and they asked us to keep the site up. What prompted you to ask this?

TJW: I’m just curious. Do you still believe? Tell me about yourself.

rep@heavensgate.com: Yes, we still have the same understanding as we did when we joined.

Do you mean you woke up this morning and decided to surf the net to a website you have never been to before?  Nothing on the internet brought you to this site?

***
Sawyer’s comment: I know this is rather picky perhaps, but language is telling often times. For instance if you asked me if I believed in Ti and Do I would have said, “yes”. I don’t say this in a box… there have been a number of things Mrc (and Srf) have said that shows they don’t believe in certain things Ti and Do taught anymore, (if they ever did), thus saying they still have the same understanding about the group can be a way of distancing themselves from what they don’t really believe. Like I said, I’m not saying this without proof. For instance in several other interviews they gave to gizmodo.com and thenextweb.com, in the email interviews they were quoted to say there was “no heaven and no hell”.  So what is “Heaven’s Gate” then? What did Ti and Do teach about what is Heaven and what is Hell. They clearly said that Heaven referred to the Kingdom in the literal Heavens where Members of the kingdom of God – the Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human have their dwelling places, like Jesus referred to as their being “many mansions” also translated to “many dwellings”, in spacecrafts some as large as a planet.

In the gizmodo.com article it reports Mrc and Srf’s response to the known tension between other ex-members and in specific regarding Sawyer they said, ” There is one other person who was in the group who writes a blog but the group did not give him any instructions when they left and he hasn’t been in the loop of what is currently going on with their information. Simply said, he is doing his own thing.”

My response to that was to show how Do and Crew opened the task of dissemination of their information to “anyone”. Here is the evidence of that which comes from the letters sent to Mrc and Srf that they gave to Rkkody because they didn’t want the task of retrieving the contents of the storage rooms as they I believe feared the authorities and in one letter Do even suggested if they didn’t want to go to storage to have Rkkody and Oscody do it, which is what happened. However later after some of the dust settled in the media, M & S wanted the tapes back. By then Rkkody knowing that M & S were flip flopping, copied about 218 tapes and then, I presume knowing the content of the letters showing the intention for M & S to have the task of overseeing the dissemination of the materials and funds from the sale of items in storage to “anyone” who wanted to help with the task, gave the all 484 or so master tapes to M & S, though made digital copies he began to disseminate to libraries, etc. and when M & S found out about it demanded he not disseminate them and even brought a lawsuit or at least threatened a lawsuit against Rkkody and then after Rkkody left his vehicle against Rkkody’s daughter who Rkkody left some materials with. I know about a lot of this because I was on the phone with both Mrc and Rkk individually and Rkk’s daughter over this issue, but really was not of a mind to know what Ti and Do would have happen as at that point I didn’t know about the letters and had no inclination to disseminate the information. Anyway that’s that background in a nutshell. Here is some of the detail I reported in my replies to the Gizmodo.com article:

The webmasters who I refer to as M and S, are wrong about who received instructions when they left, though I know it requires looking at all Do and crew said to M & S AND in their general and specific teachings of how to align with them, in this case “after” their exit. In the letters that M & S received, which I have there was a statement that was talking about the money they left behind, or that came from the sale of certain items and how they hoped it would be split up between “anyone who wants to participate in this project” (of disseminating their information and giving people who want to know the ability to know more about them – in depth, which was the reason they left the 484 or so audio tapes behind. Here are two actual quotes from one of the 5 letters sent to M & S in their FedX packet:

-“We put into storage items that we would prefer the authorities not have access to. You can do with those items whatever feels right to you. The only exception to this is some exercise equipment which belongs to our landlord, Sam, and we suspect he will want at some point.”

Still talking about the content of the storage that included a truck they suggested be used to load up the contents of one of the storage rooms:

-“Pursers have included an additional document as part of this packet that further covers the disposition of our cars and this truck. So we ask that you refer to that document for details. It is out desire that any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information.  Any of the funds you retrieve can be used towards that end and for the living expenses of those involving themselves in this project.”

The items of value that are retrievable is referring to the content of the storage room that included stacked up in the very front of the storage room the cases of about 484 audio tapes. To not consider them the most valuble items in storage is blatently ignoring what was important to Ti and Do and crew but that is a choice to recognize but there are a number of other things said in these letters to give that impression.

However, one might wonder, why Do and Crew went to such a meticulous effort to cover their bases with providing their information to multiple former classmembers, backup webmasters and providers (Rkkody and Romania and an Atlanta couple) and sent the Beyond Human master video tapes to Jhnody in Venezuala (not to M & S) and sent Rkkody master exit video’s and CNN exit videos and other master materials to Rio and Flxody/Ablody but didn’t treat the 484 audio tapes with that same kind of planning.

From a human perspective it doesn’t make any sense or looks like an oversight. They could have easily bundled them up to spread them out among these believers who had dropped out of the class for their own reasons. Actually I was still in the class when we began transcribing these audio tapes but that effort was put on a back burner by 1994. The non-human explanation that I believe to be the most likley reason(s) for the way Do and Crew handled those tapes, was that this was the instruction Do got from Ti (who was outside her vehicle by then). The way he received instructions was often by asking specific questions and then seeing what ideas he got after that. I witnessed a great deal of how this worked. I never heard Do say Ti visited him in a physical way after her exit of her vehicle. (though Rio reported in his book that when they were in the Tucson, AZ area (around 1996 I think it was), 6 members of the class had an experience one night (3 in a dream, one of which was Rio and 3 reported the same thing but not in a dream) where they were visited by what Rio described as “six year old, hairless, little boys. Glowing like white phosphorescence with a blue tint and wore one piece, form fitting outfits, like Olympic speed skaters.”

However, when idea’s came they were like if someone told you something your mother or father or someone close to you had said, you knowing them might have a sense of whether or not that was something they would have said. I know this because while in the class, Do told the student body they could talk directly to Ti. (Ti had instructed us while incarnate to direct our committment to Do, though while incarnate when we had questions we treated them as a team). And he said with that we could report to him if we feel we get a response. I did talk to Ti and asked her a question and heard in my head a subtle idea/voice with a specific answer. I don’t actually remember what I asked and what the response was, but I reported it to Do and Do said to me, “sounds like something Ti might say”. Recognizing their Mind, though we shouldn’t get overconfident in non-physical forms of communication, like in Dreams, for instance is part of bonding with them and is as much a bond, even moreso potentially as between any humans who grow to know others and how they think/feel about things.

So, sometimes it’s that simple but the ramifications are enormous as in this case, Do not spelling out exactly what was to be done with the tapes ended up setting up a huge test criteria for all who came after, by informing what their intention was and then allowing the recipients, in this case M & S to choose to abide by their intention and to what degree or not.

Therefore my point is that there is a huge amount of evidence that ANYONE WHO WANTED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PROJECT OF DISSEMINATING THEIR INFORMATION WAS CONSIDERED TO BE EQUAL TO ANY OTHERS REGARDLESS OF WHO RECEIVED WHAT INSTRUCTIONS. We all dropped out because of our own weaknesses to overcome aspects of our humanness, but if we choose to still make application to be in Ti and Do’s service the opportunity is still available by our asking and showing by our actions.

In regard to the second part of M & S’s statement about me: “and he hasn’t been in the loop of what is currently going on with their information”.

What loop is that exactly? If they determine they are the sole guardians of the information, they are being deceitful as even in these few quotes I provided from the letters it’s clear they wanted ANYONE who desired to help with the project to receive help in funds, automobile etc. How does that mean one has to be in M & S’s loop on what’s going on with Ti and Do and Crews Information?

In the human way of looking at it all it makes perfect sense. To be in their loop would be to work with and for M & S in the ways they have organized that was given to them as a task to get started on but since have tried to take over all dissemination and even surpress dissemination by going after anyone who distributed information on their own as there is a great deal of evidence of. Remember, Do and Crew didn’t actually give them the masters of the Beyond Human video tapes and gave no instructions to have them copyrighted but they it seems convinced Jhnody to give them those masters that they have since copyrighted I believe. So they have been hard at trying to be the holders of all the information which by the way is the same way the Vatican Holy See in all it’s corruption did the same with the manuscripts of writings about Jesus and the Dead Sea scrolls, etc. limiting access to their inner circle and deciding which materials could be seen by the public.

M & S for years would not even provide myself and Crlody with the audio tapes. However, Rkkody did send me a cd with about half of the tapes he digitized and Carlan posted them on a sharing site and we both send them to anyone who wants them for free while M & S have finally put them up for sale on Heavensgate.com.

They are the webmasters and they got the instructions to make some choices but in Do’s mind like I’ve proven by the letter segments above, it’s up to each individual who is “in the loop” and has nothing at all to do with adhering to what M & S say and do. They are not Older Members from the Next Level with that authority. In the human world they have some authority for the time being.

But I do agree with M & S’s statement that sawyer is “doing his own thing”, at least from their perspective but what they don’t know is how much of “that own thing” is something Ti and Do approve of or even have tasked me to do, because if one believes in Ti and Do and who they were/are – the return of the Father and the one who was incarnate in the vehicle named, “Jesus”, with the hundreds of scriptural evidence of that, that I have ammassed, then their “project” is not at all done though it will quickly be done, but when it’s done we won’t be able to talk about it anymore in this way so there won’t be much question that it’s done. I can espound on that a great deal if anyone wants me to.

By the way, the gate is Do and Do did not close the gate. He said it would be open for a short time but remember to the Next Level 1000 years in human time is like 1 day so a short time is relative to what Ti and Do determine in the timing of when the gate is closed.
*** end of sawyer’s gizmode article comment ***

TJW: Nothing brought me to the site other than curiosity. I’ve seen videos on Youtube I thought were interesting. Is there any kind of plan for a future comet?

rep@heavensgate.com: There will be no comet coming for anyone. As they said, that comet was just a marker. That’s all. The Next Level does not time its activities to space debris. Whatever happens to humans in the upcoming recycling is for them to experience. Almost all of them would never qualify to go to the Next Level anyway.

***
Sawyer’s Comment: Their response is pure misinformation. They are making up their own story. Here’s why. Mrc (and presumably Srf) don’t have the authority to know whether the Next Level will use a comet or an object in it’s tail to harvest the remaining souls on the planet that they want to salvage. Yes, Do said Hale Bopp was a Marker but they also said if Hale Bopp was bringing the recycling the Next Level might send shuttle crafts ahead of the recycling affects from Hale Bopp, to pick up Souls who the Next Level chose to salvage. (See Investments, By Anlody at: https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2016/11/23/investments-by-anlody/ ).

When this was written on Feb 15, 1997 they weren’t sure how that would all happen, although on September 29, 1996 Do made the video, “Last Chance to Evacuate Earth Before Recycling” where he speaks of three types or kinds or groups of individuals who can be saved from the recycling. The third group haven’t even heard of Ti and Do. The only ones that left by exiting their vehicles in March of 1997 were belonging to the first group, so it’s safe to assume the second group are yet to be salvaged as well as the third group, which must take place after the first ones exited by March 23, 1997. Since Hale Bopp came and didn’t stimulate recyling and since there are these two other groups to be saved, who is to say there won’t be another comet Marker/Sign with another companion object. For reference see: Last Chance to Evacuate Earth Before It’s Recycled, By Do – Sept 29, 1996
https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/last-chance-to-evacuate-earth-before-its-recycled-transcript-from-dos-videotape/ )

There is a distortion underway to program people to think they can treat Ti and Do’s teachings as a new religion to study and perhaps be ready to graduate at a future time. Mrc/Srf even suggest they have it made when no one left behind has it made and anyone who does want to go with Them, needs to show them by beginning to separate from their human attachments that includes separating from human behaviors and ways or at the least believe in everything Ti and Do said and that they are from the Kingdom that created all the planets and all the life forms and to be willing to “stand for Ti and Do” and accept the consequences from doing so, until they themselves exit by whatever means. (That aspect of showing teh Next Level we want to be in their service is spoken of in:
https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2013/12/20/away-team-from-deep-space-surfaces-before-departure/ written by Jwnody.

-Mrc and Srf also have no basis to call a comet “space debris” as if the Next Level is a willy nilly organization and a comet is like the way outdated description of being a dirty snowball. That idea is like thinking the earth is flat, given the spacecraft Rosetta that landed on a comet and Hubble has taken some great shots of Halley’s comet and the 2013 Pan Starrs comet also had something (a black dot) in it’s coma – traveling barely ahead of the comet and with the shooting of comet Tempel1 by the Deep Impact spacecraft. These comets all kind of look like a “rubber duck” shape and have jets at their top (head) and bottom that look like rocket engine exhausts.

Plus if the Next Level wants to use another object from space as a Mark/Sign or Timer, as they said the Hale Bopp comet was, why not do it again if it suits the Next Level’s needs, as the planet is not recycled yet so there is still more to do on it, which can be understood better by understanding all of Jesus prophecy and the Book of Revelations, prophecies that Ti and Do wrote about, in what became the book, “UFO Missionaries Extraordinary” by Hayden Hewes and Brad Steiger as, “The seventh closeness, which is immediately upon us in the sense that those who are in the middle of their normal life span will easily live to see it’s completion, will include such events as what the Christian church refers to as the second coming, the “rapture,” and the completion of the final prophecies in John’s Book of Revelation.” https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2016/11/28/ufo-missionaries-extraordinary/

There is a great deal to say about this as the “Seventh Closeness” is building as we speak as Ti and Do said they were the “6th closeness” in this same document. I believe that Seventh Closeness is equal to what in Revelations is described as the Seventh Trumpet that is when information relative to the history of the fulfillment of all prophecies are to be revealed. Ti and Do’s task didn’t include much detail about that. I believe I am serving Ti and Do in some capacity of bringing this part of the truth to light, documenting how Ti and Do were the return of the Ones who were called the Father and Jesus 2000 years ago but it’s Do who came public as the return of the same Older Member Soul from the Next Level in 1992-3, first in the Beyond Human Video Tape Series and then in the document posted on to many usenet groups on the web entitled, ‘Undercover “Jesus” Surfaces Before Departure’ in 1995, though Do did no further public meetings. His students aka the Saints held the meetings of which I was an “overseer” of one such group, traveling all over the U.S. and Canada for about 9 months in 1994 before I left them – another story to tell to be found on my blog. Note Jesus is in quote marks to show a special meaning to it’s usage. It was never the plan for the same physical body that was Jesus to return. In 1975 Ti and Do said they were “from the same family as Jesus was from”. They said “Jesus” was the name of the physical vehicle an Older Member of the Next Level prepared and took over to perform their task through. Jesus said he as the “son of man” would be returning with his Kingdom and even with his Father. (Joh 14:22-23). Jesus said they would both have new names and he would identify the Father to his students who would also come in the flesh again, (Rev 3:12, Rev 14:1).

Who qualifys to be “saved”, what Do called being “put on ice” (not literally) before the recycling is not for these two webmasters to say. If one believes Ti and Do there are more than the 38 Souls “raptured” as they were and that Jesus indicated in the Revelations would be 144,000 which may be broken out as 144 and a myriad of thousands of Souls who are advanced in their indvidual “grade in school” that includes being salvaged from the recycling. I have had contact in dreams with Ti and with Do and with a number of the Elder Students who I know well and there is still a new type of classroom in session that has no group or leader, but is simply for each person to deceide to serve the Next Level or not, so the Next Level can sort their Soul into it’s safe station before the final spading of the human kingdom on earth.
***

TJW: What is the Next Level? What are the qualifications to get there? Do you have literature beyond the website?

rep@heavensgate.com: The simple understanding is that there is a real, physical level above the human one here on earth.  It is not a spiritual existence. It is real individuals, in real bodies, in real crafts taking care of the issues of their planet. The Next Level, as it is called, created this planet and all the life on it. The Next Level are the care takers of not only this planet but all the systems of the universe. From that, all the other understandings follow. They periodically come down to this planet to check in on this civilizations development. The last time they took a very close up observation, in human form, was from about 1972 to 1997. The time before that was 2000 years ago. At those times they talk to those interested about the opportunity of the Next Level and how a very select few can enter into it only after a long period of transition and instruction.

There is the book for $24.95 plus shipping. There are also two free VHS tapes. Shipping to those is $3.00.

***
Sawyers Comment:

They didn’t answer the key question of the qualifications to get there? For that I will post a segment of a document Jwnody wrote entitled, “Away Team From Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure”. Jwnody served Do as a primary writer and publicist for the group as can be seen in their book that is also posted on the Web Site. Here is the segment that should in part answer your question.

“The formula is the same now as it always has been.To begin a metamorphosis in order to be born into the Next World, you must abandon everything of this world (just as the caterpillar about to become a butterfly must do).You must separate and begin to wean yourself of all mammalian ways – ties and addictions – replacing them with the ways and behavior of a more advanced and refined level of life.You cannot do it by yourself.You must seek, to the best of your ability, the guidance of a Representative who is a member of that kingdom, who has been through the metamorphic process at a previous time, and who has been sent with the specific task of midwifing newborns.Or, at very least, you attempt to connect with an active “student” of a present Representative.This is an extremely rare opportunity, as we approach the End of the Age.There is a tiny remnant left of a window for catching the eye of the “caretakers of this world.”In order to get saved for further planting, the overriding requirement is to recognize that this is true (these are the facts).You must believe that we represent the Kingdom that created this planet and all of its inhabitants.And you must be willing to take a stand in defense of that belief, and sustain that stand until the end – your departure – regardless of the consequences.

The climax of this civilization has begun as the hour of its recycling looms near.A war in the literal heavens is underway as the alien races battle for the spoils of this planet.Their campaign is escalating.They are actively engaged in recruiting, experimenting, and mining elements both mineral and biological (genetic) – in their efforts toward survival.They know their time is short.The Physical Evolutionary Level Above Human is about to surface from their undercover, behind-the-scenes involvements, ready to make their counter.There is not, and never has been, any contest.The only question that remains unanswered is how long the Next Level will permit the alien forces to present their agenda – how long is long enough for all souls to pledge their allegiance for or against – to one side or the other.Every soul must be put to the final test.And as we warned you at the outset, consider your options thoroughly. Hasty judgments are ill-advised.”
*** end of segment ***

This was worded very carefully and precisely. Every word counts to the understanding and it lines up exactly with what Do described as “3 types, groups or kinds” of people that would “go with him” when he leaves and includes not having one’s soul or spirit recycled. Whether or not some go to the Next Level with their “changed over” physical bodies is up to the Next Level, which is a big part of why the 39 were prepared to go on a trip, having packed a bag and having passports in case the Next Level wanted to use their human vehicles to do a task someplace else on the planet. The Next Level technicians could have easily healed their bodies from the drugs they ingested, which was also the reason for the abduction insurance they took out with Lloyds of London that they looked at humorously. I have alot more to say about this in the next few exchanges you recorded.

The entire document can be found posted:
https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2013/12/20/away-team-from-deep-space-surfaces-before-departure/

Their book still can be downloaded freely in text format on the heaven’s gate web site and the books contents can also be found posted on my blog but I don’t have a way to download it all in one swoop yet.

These webmaters do have info beyond the website. There are a total of 484 audio tapes that are of internal private meetings they gave.
***

TJW: Thanks. What profession are you in?

rep@heavensgate.com: Just in regular retail sales.

TJW: Cool. I’m in wholesale. Can you explain the evacuation of the body? I’m interested in that. Also, are you a human or just inhabiting a human body?

rep@heavensgate.com: We don’t understand what you mean by evacuation of the body. We are regular humans. Only Ti and Do were Next Level Members who occupied a human body.

Sawyers comment:

I don’t understand why they didn’t know what you meant by “evacuation of the body”. It’s brought up by Do and Crew many times. For instance in the document on the web site entitled, ‘Evolutionary “Rights” for “Victims”‘ written with Do’s approval By Stmody, he says:

“My understanding is that the soul is actually freed from the discomfort of an old “suit of clothes” when the vehicle is dropped. It doesn’t make any sense to me that the driver “dies” when his “car” (body) stops running.”  To me, the body is just a “leaf” of the “tree,” and the genetic strain (family tree) doesn’t end when the leaf’s function becomes impaired.  When it is becoming a burden on me and others, and whenever my choices are so restricted that growth is impossible, or ridiculously difficult, it is part of the design to evacuate it like a tree sheds a leaf.”

They may have never read this document or the others that use the term “evacuate”. They seldom if ever quote what Ti and Do and Crew said in the info they left behind, yet they are looked to by the public as the authorities on the subject as one would understandibly conclude if they are true “reps at heavens gate”. And of course in the video tape Do made that he titled, “Last Chance to Evacuate Earth Before It’s Recycled”.

Then where these two said, “Only Ti and Do were Next Level Members who occupied a human body” is just not accurate either. They were the only Older Members from the Next Level, but these webmasters were present in the classroon when Ti was still in her vehicle when Ti and Do realized that there were a number with them on a spacecraft before they came to earth to incarnate that had physical bodies. Those would not be human physical bodies which means they were Next Level grown physical bodies and some of them were shown to be in the UFO crashes (though the space aliens seemed to also stage crashes to create confusion about the Next Level). That “briefing” is discussed first in a meeting that may be on this audio tape shown near the end in this description of what’s on this audio tape stated as “Our Briefing”:

01/08/85
(cont. from 189) Thought chains. Higher levels responsible for lower levels. Negative suffering. Human infants, water wombs. Spoiled society. Tamer humans. Yuppies. Tired of street gangs. Pulling. Thinking deeper. Urgency. Pleasing the one who gave me the task. Pulling in maturity. Tool package. Water womb, advanced learning. Lab programming. Breeding humans. Justification & karma, NL making things right. Ti’s tree. “Starman” Our briefing. Primary control. Higher thoughts. 85 min.

However, Lvvody in the document she wrote entitled, “Ingredients of a Deposit — Becoming a New Creature” that is in their Book and on the heavensgate.com website says…

“If  “I” – the identity – am the soul – containing Next Level mind, then this borrowed human body I am wearing is not me.  It was “tagged” with a deposit by Members of the Next Level and set aside for my use for this task, and “I” probably had a very off-and-on relationship with the body, according to the instructions given to me and my invisible Next Level helpers – at a briefing aboard a spacecraft prior to coming into this atmosphere.  Most of the soul (containing Next Level mind), was outside the vehicle, and the deposit wasn’t really activated until the time-capsule program was set in motion – to make contact with the two incarnate Representatives from the Kingdom of Heaven, Ti and Do.”

So she is saying she was abord a spacecraft before coming into this atmosphere, speaking of her Soul at that time. Plus we know that Do came to understand that to arrive some intentionally crashed spacecrafts in the southwest during the 1940’s and 1950’s as shown in the document, “UNDERCOVER “JESUS” SURFACES BEFORE DEPARTURE”:

‘C. It appears that even the staging of some of the crashed spacecrafts (which we suspect some of us arrived in) was in order to help the skeptics realize that they have “visitors from another world.”‘

I recall in the meeting about the Briefing Ti “remembered” that some had physical bodies and there were a number without physical bodies and all were coming to earth to perform their task that included experiencing whatever of their humanness they still needed to overcome to become adult Next Level members.

TJW: What are your thoughts on gender? Why do you keep referring to yourself as we?

rep@heavensgate.com: My task partner and I are here in Arizona answering questions. We recognize the male and female gender on earth but it doesn’t matter to the Next Level and is gone when you enter it.

***
Sawyer’s response:

I don’t think it’s the most accurate way of answering that question about gender. I would say it does “matter to the Next Level” in regard to humans. They designed the plant and animal kingdom to have male and female characteristics for a reason and also enabled the possability for some of those mammals to advance beyond gender or to reverse metamorphose into gender roles. I agree that to enter the Next Level as an adult member one must overcome all gender identification while in a vehicle that has gender characteristics as that builds one’s Soul with the programming that would be make them “viable” in a Next Level “made (grown)” vehicle that has no gender. If a Soul still had a lingering gender identity, I suppose to some significant degree the Next Level would judge, they would in a sense “abort” the new vehicle they were to be moved into. That’s how Ti and Do spoke about other human characteristics that were yet to be overcome that were non-existant in the Next Level. So the work overcoming humanness needs to be done sufficiently before being rewarded with a Next Level made vehicle.

I recall Do once talking about those who had become homosexual inclinded as having overcome “gender consciousness” but still had sexual consciousness to overcome.

Here is what Do and Crew had to say about gender:

Snnody wrote in the document Do included in their Purple Book entitled, Deposits”:

“Thus, the purpose of this creation is to produce new members for the Level Above Human.  Though members of that Level have physical bodies, the bodies have no gender.  (Replication based on gender was designed for the plant and animal kingdoms.)  New members of the Kingdom of Heaven are born through a metamorphic process which begins when the Level Above Human, or Next Level, “plants seeds,” – places deposits or “chips” of Next Level mind (mind that comes from the Creator, the Chief of Chiefs, or Most High God – the term you use is not important) into human “plants” during times when they relate very closely to the garden-planet, and during “follow-up” visits that occur at roughly 2000-year intervals after the initial planting.  A deposit is potentially the gift of life for it contains the programming necessary to begin the metamorphic process which can lead to entry into the real Evolutionary Level Above Human, where there is no death.”

Here’s what Do says about Ti, his partner who he learned was his Older Member (Heavenly Father), not because “she” told him so, in the Video Beyond Human – The Last Call – Session 2:

“My partner has left her physical body.  It feels so funny for me to say “her” when I speak of Ti, even though she was in a body that had been a female.  I say “had been” because she had certainly overcome any gender consciousness before going back to our Father’s Kingdom.”

In Session 6 and Session 8 Do talks about the many things he and Ti had instructions to give to the class to reduce their gender and sensual consciousness. For instance, not wearing tight clothing, no skirts, long sleeve shirts, shirts with two pockets whenever possible so a females shape isn’t excentuated, buttoning up the top button on shirts so one’s neck isn’t exposed, not wearing shorts, wearing underwear on top and bottom, loose fitting pants, nothing tucked in that excentuates showing of the waist, short hair off the neck, easy to care for, no jewelry or makeup. If we went swimming, which we did on occasion, we did so wearing a long sleeve and long legged outfit of some sort. Do talked about how in the records, Jesus said there was no marrying in the Kingdom of Heaven. In the gospel of Thomas it talks about no male nor female – that students will make the male female and the female male, in a sense becoming both and niether. All this was part of overcoming humanness. He talked about how mammalian reproduction was designed for the animal evolutionary kingdom – never intended for the human kingdom but because a test circumstance was set up and the test was failed the result was a reverse metamorphosis that included becoming reproductive like animals.

In the USA Today Info Ad Do and Crew published on May 27, 1993, that Do wrote, he said, ‘A “student” or prospective “child” of a member of the true Kingdom of God can, with the help of an Older Member, overcome or rise out of all human mammalian behavior  – sexuality and gender consciousness – and all other addictions and ties of the human kingdom.  He must complete this change to the point of abhorring human behavior before his soul can become a “match” with a biological body of the true Kingdom of God for that new body is genderless and incapable of functioning at a human level.’

Later in that same document, Do wrote, “The reason the term “TRUE” Kingdom of God is used repeatedly is because there are many space alien races that through the centuries of this civilization (and in civilizations prior) have represented themselves to humans as “Gods.” We refer to them collectively as “Luciferians,” for their ancestors fell away from the keeping of the true Kingdom of God many thousands of years ago.  They are not genderless they still need to reproduce.  They are nothing more than technically advanced humans who have retained some of what they learned while in the early training of members of the true Kingdom of God, e.g., limited space-time travel, telepathic communication, advanced travel hardware (spacecrafts, etc.), increased longevity, advanced genetic engineering, and such things as suspended holograms (as used in some religious “miracles”).”
***

TJW: Do you have many people within your organization? What are your thoughts on suicide? I read about it on the website, but feel like it isn’t very clear.

rep@heavensgate.com: The Group ended in 1997. There is no organization or members. No one should commit suicide.

TJW: So why maintain the website? Obviously if you still believe it, you are a proponent/member of something, right? The reason I ask about suicide, is because if Do and Ti were the only Next Level Members, what does that say about the others who took their own lives? They were human, correct? Not inhabiting a human body, but human? I’m confused by this and what I’ve read. I’m just trying to understand more clearly. Also, what is a task partner?

rep@heavensgate.com: The website is to provide information for their future return. We are designated to maintain and care for it.

Humans are not to commit suicide. Those 38, and those 38 only, we allowed to shed their human body, take on space-capable, Next Level bodies and depart this planet. No human can do that or would be allowed to do that. We know you are confused about this but those individuals did not commit suicide. They broke the bond of human connection and quickly switched to a Next Level one.

TJW: [Ed. note: Reports showed that there were 39 bodies, suggesting that Heaven’s Gate does not include Marshall Applewhite a human.]

TJW: I think I get it. You have to reach a certain level (Next Level) to shed your human body. Can humans (obviously they can) reach Next Level? Also, do you think gender here on earth can be fluid?

rep@heavensgate.com: Humans have to go through a lengthy classroom setup, under the guidance of Next Level teachers, to even have a chance of conversion. No human relationship, not habits, no drugs, no sex or even thoughts of it and not human hang-ups of any kind. All family and social relationships are cut.

Human gender issues can vary but it is of no consequence in this issue since you walk out of all of it.

Sawyer’s comment: First off, though it was clear from what Do said in several documents and that Stmody and others wrote that went into the Purple Book the group had published that “suicide” to escape human lessons was not what they were doing by laying down their human vehicles. They were not those vehicle. Many humans are their vehicles though a certain amount have received “deposits” so are potentially able to still be born into their next grade in the Next Levels school on earth. One needs to study all they said to get the whole picture. I suggest starting with a document I wrote that highlights a few of the main things Do and Crew said on the subject of suicide and who could still be “saved” from the recycling as it’s not over yet:

https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2014/08/02/ti-and-dos-teachings-provide-opportunity-for-all-souls-to-choose-degrees-of-allegiance-to-the-kingdom-of-god/

But this is another example where M and S are spreading misinformation. It needs to be explained the way Do and Crew explained it as they did not close the “gate” on that option, so it’s not closed. When they said, “During a brief window of time, some may wish to follow us.”, it was left an open ended time frame for a reason. If one is familiar with many other references to time, they will see that Ti and Do and Crew thought in terms of the 1 day Next Level Time equallying about 1000 years in human earth time, thus 1 hour is like 40 years. And note they suggest to specifically call out to the names Ti and Do if someone feels so inclined to follow them in that way. They didn’t say what Ti and Do’s response would be to someone trying to connect with them with that intention. Of course not believing Ti and Do were who they said they were and I believe demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt they were/are, will never seem to justify someone laying down their physical human vehicle’s life and that’s part of what makes having any faith in them even impossible for those without their mind active in their vehicle to conceive of doing anything in their regard and service absurd or cultish or dangerous to society, etc.

Ti and Do were also in favour of euthenasia. If someone’s vehicle was so wrought with pain that they had no quality of life, had to be on huge dosages of medications with all sorts of ugly side effects just to remain breathing, then they thought it was in their right to want to die. But the Next Level doesn’t need human vehicles anyway, though they are used in this current civilizations to grow stronger Next Level Minds by overcoming their behaviors and ways. What the Next Level values and will put in safe keeping if they deem an individual having tried their best with what they had, is the Soul that started as a seed in that vehicle. They may have use to save Spirits of human vehicles as well. I don’t know for sure.

Now I have talked a few out of committing suicide because of things they said about why. They acted as if that was a solution to their problems. They wanted an escape and that’s understandible and even applaudble as they may be moving closer to the Next Level because of their hatred of living in this world. But what if someone came up to them and offerred them a million dollars. Would they still want to kill their own vehicle? Some have said, then they can reincarate again to have a better life which is far afield from what would likley happen as not having a easy life is actually more of a symptom of a Mind dissatisfied with the human condition so is growing nearer to Next Level memberhips, if they continue to seek the Mind of Ti and Do to know what’s next for them. I suggested to them to ask Ti and Do what they would have them do. I suggested if in doubt “don’t” another Ti and Do saying. I suggested looking at what tasks Do and Crew left for those that wanted to remain in their service that included disseminating Ti and Do’s information, “standing for them” and maintaining that stand until their departure, their exit of their vehicle, not saying how that might occur.

Prophecy includes quite the perspective of this and shows that many will be coming into belief in Ti and Do and will give their life in their service in this way of “standing for them”:

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

There are a number of cross references to this and even Do and Crews exit by their own hand was spelled out in:

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

“Kill them” was from the Greek, “apokteino auto” which properly translated meant “seperate by dying (in any way) themselves” and with that perspective the other verses in Rev 11 follow suite as the translators having not known what would happen followed what was most logical, and I believe that also became a strategy the Next Level used to thwart the Luciferian’s attempts to distorte the truth further than they already had.

Ti and Do were the only present Older Members from the Next Level, but they were not the only Souls who came from the Next Level. Ti and Do explained that there were a number who came with them who had Next Level vehicles of some model (I suspect student model vehicles). And they said there were also a larger number who came with them who did not have physical Next Level vehicles. Ti described all this in what He (she) remembered as a “briefing” before them came. I have correlated that briefing to Revelations chapter 4, which I explain in great detail in my book to be on the shelves this month of January of 2017.

In Beyond Human session 1 and 2 Do gives indications of those who were with him, having come from the Next Level to do this task. In fact we had some affirmations that indicated “we” came from the Next Level to do a task, affirmations that Ti gave us before she exited, though some could have been those who had physical Next Level (student model) vehicles and some could have been among those who did not have Next Level vehicles.

This verse indicates some in that briefing had “crowns of god” and were “clothed in white raiment”. Clothing is the way the Next Level talks about a physical vehicle they “put on”. Do indicated he put his in a “closet” before he came. A crown of Gold indicates they were made “kings” which means they were awarded with Next Level vehicles of some stature, like I said student models that still had the capacity to reverse metamorphosis into human behaviors, I would guess sort of what Adam may have been given is my educated guess:

Rev 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

There were 24 who remained in 1993 before some were allowed to return to the classroom when they saw the Beyond Human tapes broadcast.

There is a great deal more I can say about this and reference to things Do and Crew wrote and said and did and what’s in the records.
***

TJW: Have you had any contact with Do or Ti since the shedding of their human bodies?

rep@heavensgate.com: No.

***
Sawyers reply: Even though I’m faulted by both M & S for saying this and by Carlan who was Crlody, I feel I have had many contacts with Do and some with Ti and some with Jwnody, Lggody, Jnnody, Lvvody, Srrody, Smmody, possibly Tllody, Nrrody and Dstody in dreams that started around the time of the 9/11 attacks and continued to about a year ago for the last one. (I have also had dreams I believe were made to look like them but were nothing alike really). Each dream had a purpose and some were in answers to direct questions and some were correcting me and some were informing me that I was being given a task to perform. (I didn’t leave to perform this task. I left because I flunked a test that was given to me, but the Next Level didn’t give up on me and I showed I still believed in them although I lost a big chunk of the Mind they had given me and still have not regained the ground I once had). Anyone who wants to have a relationship with Ti and Do, need only genuinely ask them for it and they will be helped to develop it. Some new believers have said they had a dream or two of Do and when they told me of it’s content, I could see it. It will have nothing human in it and doesn’t give anyone instructions to do or say anything nor any indications of harming their own vehicle or anyone elses and if one doesn’t have such a dream isn’t an indication that one is lessor in any way. It’s just the way the Next Level chooses to help each of us. Some who have dreams like me may have needed those dreams to reawaken more. One dream told me that I was barely awake and that can still be lost if I don’t move ahead with seeking further service and strength to perform that service.
***

TJW: Are you Rio? [NOTE: Rio was the member of Heaven’s Gate who discovered the mass suicide. He had left the group six weeks prior to the deaths. He is still a believer, as are almost all ex-members of Heaven’s Gate. To this day, no ex-member has spoken out against the group.]

rep@heavensgate.com: No, Rio is in LA.  We are in Arizona.

TJW: Oh, are you still in contact with one another?

rep@heavensgate.com: Yes, occasionally.

***Sawyers reply:
First off, it’s  not true that ex-members of Heaven’s Gate have not spoken out against Ti and Do being who they maintained they were from the Level Above Human, the Kingdom of Heaven. On Larry King Live, the ex-member known in the group as Rthody who used the name “Michael”, who was also on the Inside Edition documentary (I think it was that one) was interviewed and talked about the examples of what he said was Ti and Do’s paranoia and as controlling with many “procedures” for everything. He gave the example of how it was procedure for males to shave with the grain – so in a downward stroke rather than an upward stroke. By the way that procedure came about because someone asked Do how he shaved not because Do dreamed up that kind of detail for how to do things. The entire premise of the classroom was to be of one mind with Do. Ti was actually the one who told us to make our total committment to Do. She told us that Do didn’t want to ask us to make that committment to him, so she did it. Ti is also the one who said we needed to “give us your will”. Do later told us, after Ti left her vehicle that when she said that she “expected to lose half the class”. That was in about 1977 if I recall correctly. At that time we had some number in the 70’s-80’s of classmembers and that went down to 24 in early 1993 and then some who had left returned when it was offerred that brought the number into the 30’s before gaining new members during the Second public meeting scedule in 1994 that then dwindled back down to 38, thus pretty  darn close to half of the original 70-80’s. One can say it wasn’t because of giving their will that many left but it really does boil down to that. While on that subject Jesus required the same thing. He said to be his disciple one needed to “deny self” and in the Lords prayer said to ask for “thy will be done” – not our will, so again Ti and Do were 100% consistant with Jesus teachings while not presenting what they said as from Jesus at all and actually sounding a little different.

But regarding ex-members who spoke publically against Ti and Do, there was also one ex-member named Shldody, (sheild-ody) who left the class around 1980 who was on a documentary. Then there was Dncody who left several times and in 1997-8 gave an interview to a talk show host out of Chicago and he I believe indicated Ti and Do were well meaning but that Do got off track allowing the suicides. His vehicle died a few years later. I was in touch with him before his vehicle died. Pmmody was on that same documentary with Rthody and was critical of Ti and Do, saying they didn’t take care of her teeth. By the way they did take care of my teeth. I had a lot of teeth problems they had fixed and also replaced all smmody’s teeth with dentures. They just were not as attentive as Pmmody wanted. Rio and Mrcody/Srfody said things that were also against things Ti and Do said, as I’m documenting a little here. That is also a form of going against them and I have many more examples as I happen to know of many ex-members to include Andody who told me they were well meaning but Do got off track, which was the Rob Balch psychologist portrayal, together with his saying Do was upset with his sexuality, that they thought he was playing out in a controlling way with his students, another huge leap that has no evidence but frankly they had to come up with something to justify their standing, as others have also done.

So it’s also not true that almost all ex-members are still believers, as just shown, which includes Rio, known in the group as Neody.

I thought Rio left “two weeks” before they laid down their lives. If you can provide the source of “six weeks”, I’d like to know about it so I can make that update, since I wasn’t in the group at that time and can’t find that reference in his book. I’d ask him but he made it clear to me he didn’t want to be involved in anything anymore, after he published his book in 2007 and gave some interviews at that time.

I recall in one interview he said he had a “ticker tape” kind of communication with Do and indicated it would be another 10 years before the west coast of the U.S. would be devasted in the recyling and that he would move to the midwest or Colorado before then. I don’t know the last time M and S communicated with him but according to this report from M and S provided info he’s still in the Los Angeles area. Ten years naturally brings us to 2017 and though the signs tell me that this is a very significant time that’s beginning as the primary time of Great Tribulation never before seen since the start of this civilization, to include the U.S. territory this time around, that no doubt would include more so called natural diasters and all manner of “death”, according to the prophecy of the 4th Seal, the “Green (Pale) Horse” that relates to the CERES LIGHT TOWER AND CITYSCAPE and PLUTO’S EARTHLIKE EVIDENCE AND SIGNS OF INTELLIGENT DEVELOPMENT, (that Ti and Do indicated about Pluto as an “earthlab” inside it, in the movie script they had written in 1982, that primary recycling seems to be scheduled to start in earnest during the start of the 6th Seal which may be a decade away. But I don’t have a “ticker tape” communication and that was far afield from any way Ti and Do ever described having communication from the Next Level, so that and a number of other things Rio said in his book also refect on his speaking publically in ways that were not in accordance with what Ti and Do taught, however at times minor and despite I know his best intentions.

For the record, in his book he reveals, however not in these terms but that seem to amount to his never being a fully committed member of the classroom,  that seems to be his primary reason to leave. I don’t say this as a put down to him as it often takes a long time to come to terms with our doubts, that are all part of the testing criteria we can choose to push through or not. Rio said in his book that he loved Do and his classmates and I’m sure that is true and I believe they loved him as well, which is why when he instigated wanting to leave Do became fully supportive of his choice, knowing that Ti was behind his leaving and that he could serve the Next Level by his departure from the class, though that would not have been Do’s preference for him so did not send him away from the class to perform a task, anymore than I was sent out of the class to perform the task I feel I have and feel I was given by Do, verified to me by Do and Helpers in dreams.

If Do wasn’t conscious of Rio’s indecision all along I contend that Ti certainly was from her vantagepoint outside the vehicle. Ti and Do always said they didn’t try to “read us”. They would take what we say and do as our best attempt to be honest. After Rio joined in January of 1994, he said in his book that Do had them regularily write a “Control Status Report” to expose their difficulties in the overcoming process and how for him that mostly contained his struggle with not being there for his vehicle’s son and dealing with memories of sensuality with his girlfriend. I can relate to those specific areas in my own overcoming at this time in how I couldn’t imagine leaving my daughter back in 2001 when she was 4 years old when I first began to re-awaken and it still weighs on me though she is almost on her own now, that I still hurt thinking about. And I still deal with degrees of giving into sensuality, though not including anyone else. I can also relate to how it seems Rio, while he was in the classroom wasn’t that conscious with what were some of his biggest boogaboos.

Often we don’t know what all we are needing to overcome until we are confronted with “tests” the Next Level provides to all who seek to be in their favour, not just referring to those in Ti and Do’s classroom but to anyone who feels a type of closeness to the Next Level, regardless of the terms they use to describe it.

It was telling that Rio had additional big hurdles to cross as he reported in his book:

“I went along with the idea and possability of DO being the “Second Coming” just for learning purposes. I knew that leaving the body behind was not for me but wanted to stay until the end.” He goes on to show his disbelief that a Spacecraft could pick them up, when he wrote, “I still had no evidence that a spacecraft was picking us up. In the beginning of the group, back in 1976, there was claim that a pick up was going to happen but never did.”

I only learned some ten years after I left, what brought me to being so gung ho for 18 years and then in the last year that all seemed to fall apart and I felt like I had no strength to combat the sensuality that I let overtake my vehicle. Rio published this book in 2007, ten years after leaving and it seems his reasons for leaving were brought to a head in the same kind of way they were for me. After all for Rio, he joined when Do and Crew were being most bold about Do as the return of the same Older Member Soul who had been incarnate in the vehicle named, “Jesus”. Most all the meeting posters we created (as I was an overseer of one of the 4 groups who were putting on public meetings in 1994) stated this Motis Operandi of Do as the “Second Coming”, his first coming being both while with Ti as one of the Two Witnesses and when he was providing the graduation lesson plan 2000 years ago. Plus in 1995 Do published to 95 newsgroups on the WWW the document entitled, ‘Undercover “Jesus” Surfaces Before Departure’ that clearly says who Do knew himself to be in the fulfillment of prophecy. He never did say he was Jesus because Jesus was the name of the vehicle that was prepared for him to take over for his task then and that same vehicle was not coming back to show people it’s scars, etc. and Jesus said as much by saying not to believe anyone who comes “in my name” saying they are the returned Christ. He knew he would have a new body with a new name as stated in Rev 3:12 and other places. Nonetheless, Do did acknowledge publically that he was the same Older Member Soul that was in the vehicle named Jesus, which is why he had Jesus put in quote marks to indicate it’s special meaning.

This is all very telling. One would imagine that some of those who joined in 1994 as Rio did, were responding to the Posters announcing the return of the One who was incarnate as “Jesus,”:
(See https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2016/11/14/hes-back-were-back-94-public-meeting-announcement-poster/ ). But for Rio that appears to have been more of a curiosity he never really had the sense of being true, though he weighed the possabilities while in the classroom – his battle with his influences. He also reported feeling “compelled to join” and was equally “compelled to leave”, which I can relate to 100% and that’s also why I’m compelled to re-emerge, though afraid of doing so, a human fear of course, but one I at the least have enough of Ti and Do’s Mind inside of me to be willing to confront and accept the negative ramifications to my humanness that are sure to come as I continue with the promtion of the “backside” (after) (Rev 5:1), “Little Book” (Rev 10) book that completes the revealing of who Ti and Do were/are in Christian scriptual terms that I have the task to speak publically about.
***

TJW: What year did you leave the group?

rep@heavensgate.com: 1987.

TJW: Do you feel as though you missed an opportunity by not staying/being there with the Away Team?

rep@heavensgate.com: No. We will rejoin them, just not in this life.

*** Sawyers response:
Their appearing certain that they will rejoin them is in my opinion misguided. No one knows for sure how the Next Level will judge our Souls. We actually judge ourselves in what we believe, say and do and for whom, while in our human lives, as Jesus said, we show our allegience to, between “God or Mammon”, where God are the most current Older Members of the Next Level who were incarnate and Mammon is holding all things human as our treasure and wealth we align with. Jesus spoke about this as those who come into his Kingdom as being those who were investing what the Next Level gave them, to build upon their Next Level Mind, while others squandered what they were given. This is not to cast judgement on M and S as it applies to each of us. Like Jesus said, to those to who much was given much is required. M and S and I and others who had a personal relationship with Ti and Do were given a great deal but because of that, we need to live up to what we were given, that is, if we want to be in good stead with Ti and Do. Do said that those who dropout would be given more difficult tests thereafter. It was the same with “nipping influences in the bud.” If at first sign of an influence in our heads, say a thought about sensuality, we nip it in the bud and destroy that thought we build that strength from doing so and can even grow to cut off the recognized thought/feeling before it actually registers in our consciousness. But if we hear the thought and then let it linger and entertain it some, it becomes harder and harder to discard it. M & S may not deal with sensuality on a sexual level but they did get married, perhaps for business purposes, but their lesson that Do made very clear to them, as I was there to witness, as the reason they were told to leave the classroom in 1987, until they were willing to live by the lesson step, was surrounding the lesson step called, “I could be wrong” – having too much confidence in their own ideas and opinions and judgement, decesions. I know that influence as well. It’s the basis of the reason Lucifer and some of his associates fell away – dropped out of their classroom – thinking they didn’t need their Older Members and could become the leaders of their own kingdom. I suppose M & S don’t know it but they are changing things Ti and Do taught, semmingly ever so slightly while presenting themselves as the only authority on Heaven’s Gate, which I have to point out the falasy of when I see it. It doesn’t mean they are bad and I am good. I am also tested and if anyone can point out my saying anything that is different from what Ti and Do taught I want to know about it so I can correct it.

Rio and M & S have some very in common thinking, acting as if there is nothing anyone can do now in direct service to Ti and Do, as if they just need to be good humans and they get a ticket to heaven eventually, which is the same thinking that dominates all the religions which is the tactic promoted by the Luciferians. If they kept this to themselves that would be their choice and I would have nothing to say about that, but when they publically represent themselves as knowing the truth and maintaining the truth about Ti and Do, as all three have done repeatedly, then that is no longer in support of what Ti and Do taught and may be bordering working against Ti and Do’s teachings.

After all Rio writes in the end of his book that, “The experience with Heaven’s Gate changed my life. However, I do not promote the doctrine of the group and I am no longer part of it.”

Then he writes, “Without it [his book] no one else would know the truth about the group, my experience or what the students said in their last words adn testimonials.”

So does that mean that Do and Crew did a bad job providing the truth in their Purple Book entitled, ‘How and When “Heaven’s Gate” (The Door to the Physical Kingdom Level Above Human) May Be Entered,” an Anthology of Their Material, and in the EXIT VIDEO TAPES Do and His students that wanted to make one provided that are still available today in 2017 outside of his or M & S’s efforts and in the many audio tapes that fortunately Rkkody mananged to copy and digitize 218 of and have been provided to many thereafter (even against M & S’s will) that included all the tapes where Ti was included and the testimonies of ex-members who did not go against Ti and Do, namely Crlody (Carlan) and as far as I know, Flxody, Ablody, Jhnody and Swyody (Sawyer) and before they exited their vehicles per Do’s invitation, Rkkody, Jstody, Oscody and Gbbody?

TJW: Is there anyone on Earth who is Next Level?

rep@heavensgate.com: No. No one from the Next Level is on Earth at this time.

TJW: I thought you had to be taught by people in the Next Level to have a chance to become Next Level. Is that why the website is still up, as a tool for such lessons?

rep@heavensgate.com: Only a physical Next Level Member can guide you through the entire process and graduate into the Next Level. The online information is for reference and preparation only. It cannot get you into the Next Level in this era.

TJW: When is the next era?

rep@heavensgate.com: We don’t know.

*** Sawyers reply:
“Cannot get you into the Next Level in this era” is another major form of deceiful misinformation ignoring Do’s statements in the video, transcribed and posted:

Last Chance to Evacuate Earth Before It’s Recycled, By Do – Sept 29, 1996
https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/last-chance-to-evacuate-earth-before-its-recycled-transcript-from-dos-videotape/

Planet About To Be Recycled – Your Only Chance To Survive – Leave With Us – Oct 5, 1996
https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2016/11/23/planet-about-to-be-recycled-your-only-chance-to-survive-leave-with-us/

In these Do is very clear that there are three types, groups of people in the world that could escape the recycling and thus “go with him” (though that might mean what he called having their souls “put on ice” but not literally – SAVED as Christians say. Those three groups summarized are those in his classroom with him to the end and some of those he thought would need to return to the human kingdom to finish their overcoming at a later date. In the second group were those who recognized Do as their Older Member and had begun to seperate from their human roots and behaviors but had “weaknesses” that kept them from completing their changeover but would also “go with him” to miss the recycling. This group are also spoken about in:

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Note is during the 5th Seal and the evidence suggests we are starting the 4th Seal now and the 1st seal was the time period that ended with Do and Crew’s exit. This would appear to be a time period when it’s still possible for some to “graduate”, I suppose to perhaps even qualify to receive a Next Level “infant” or what I was calling a “student model” vehicle, shown as a “white robe given to every one of them”. Remember, clothing depictions in prophecy have to do with one’s physical vehicle which Do also spoke about that way. Do said he left his Next Level physical vehicle “in a closet” on board a spacecraft to come to perform this new task.

Prophecy also talks about how during this time that began as the Seventh Angel’s trumpet sounding, that was described as occurring AFTER the Two Witnesses and Crew had left their incarnations would be a time when the “Little Book” would be provided and spoken about before Kings of the earth, etc. Is it simply coincidence that Jwnody wrote, in: ‘”Away Team” from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure’ the same outline of who would go with them and/or be saved that also talks about the “war in the heavens” when the spoils of the planet would be taken by the Luciferian Space aliens which is described in Rev 19 that here is an excerpt of:

“The formula is the same now as it always has been. To begin a metamorphosis in order to be born into the Next World, you must abandon everything of this world (just as the caterpillar about to become a butterfly must do). You must separate and begin to wean yourself of all mammalian ways – ties and addictions – replacing them with the ways and behavior of a more advanced and refined level of life. You cannot do it by yourself. You must seek, to the best of your ability, the guidance of a Representative who is a member of that kingdom, who has been through the metamorphic process at a previous time, and who has been sent with the specific task of midwifing newborns. Or, at very least, you attempt to connect with an active “student” of a present Representative. This is an extremely rare opportunity, as we approach the End of the Age. There is a tiny remnant left of a window for catching the eye of the “caretakers of this world.” In order to get saved for further planting, the overriding requirement is to recognize that this is true (these are the facts). You must believe that we represent the Kingdom that created this planet and all of its inhabitants. And you must be willing to take a stand in defense of that belief, and sustain that stand until the end – your departure – regardless of the consequences.

The climax of this civilization has begun as the hour of its recycling looms near. A war in the literal heavens is underway as the alien races battle for the spoils of this planet. Their campaign is escalating. They are actively engaged in recruiting, experimenting, and mining elements both mineral and biological (genetic) – in their efforts toward survival. They know their time is short. The Physical Evolutionary Level Above Human is about to surface from their undercover, behind-the-scenes involvements, ready to make their counter. There is not, and never has been, any contest. The only question that remains unanswered is how long the Next Level will permit the alien forces to present their agenda – how long is long enough for all souls to pledge their allegiance for or against – to one side or the other. Every soul must be put to the final test. And as we warned you at the outset, consider your options thoroughly. Hasty judgments are ill-advised.”

And Do say’s in the third group who could be saved from the spading/recycling are those who are separating from the human world in their own way and may never even hear about Ti and Do. This means if one hears about Ti and Do and they choose to do nothing, they may be part of the recycling and doing nothing is what M & S and Rio moreorless promote except for being seed spreaders of “Truth, Goodness, Love, Understanding and Creativity” which was NOT in Do and Crew’s criteria at all and sound very much like the latest dilution, watered down spirituality that is a dead end to genuine Next Level Family participation.

Jesus’ Prophecy has a lot to say about this but M & S and seemingly Rio have poo pooed the Revelations Prophecy. M (Mrc) told me to be careful with the Revelations prophecy as he knew I was working on a re-translation re-interpretation.

Rio says in his book that is claiming to be from Do, which some of sounds fishy that:

“The EXIT of Heaven’s Gate was a time of passage and is over”.

Do didn’t close the “gate” so why does he say the “time of passage…is over” – directly contradicting Do as he has said pubically as well according to Carlan.

Then he writes:

“According to DO, that event relates to the “Book of Revelations” like this:

-First understand that Revelations was John’s wild symbolic dream and is not in chronological order. Harvest time, then distruction, cleansing and recycle. New planting.”

Why is it that in none of the things Do said or wrote or any of the students did anyone refer to the Book of Revelations as “wild symbolic dream”? Sure it was symbolic and it may have been delivered to John in dreams but what’s “wild” about it, as if to discredit it’s having any validity. Harvest time is fine, but destruction, I believe is the same as the recycling in prophecy and in other things Do said. Cleansing means what? Do spoke about how the space aliens could come in by the thousands to take humans and this is depicted in Rev 19 prophecy and Jesus called it the removal of the Tares, the look alike wheat sowed by the “evil one”. Do also spoke about how the Luciferians would be assisting the Next Level in the pulling up of the weeds and might also escalate he and his students exit. (See USA Today info ad:

“UFO Cult” Resurfaces with Final Offer (Ad/Statement, Published in “USA TODAY”) May 27, 1993, By Do
https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/usa-today-adstatement-may-27-1993-by-do-the-rev-6-applewhite-horse/

Rio continues to write:

“-Heavens Gate was the Second Coming Jesus. Soul Harvest.”

I agree that Heaven’s Gate was the last phase of the Second Rapture, the first being when Ti and Do first came public in 1975 and drew their Elder student body. But Do left the “gate” open to the “second rapture” so it continues to date, even if it takes a new form.

But Do said that their info was not to become a body of info to study as if to make it into a new religion. It needed to be acted upon to hope to reap it’s promised rewards. It’s a Luciferian tactic to morphf it into something to study. Paul of Tarsus was instrumental in stimulating that and is why Do and Crew said that “Religions were the number one killer of souls” and that’s what M & S and Rio seem to be promoting repeatedly and that M & S tried to get me to join them in so doing.

Rio continues:

“-9/11 was the beginning of the War of Armageddon”

It’s interesting how Do left his vehicle in 1997 years before the 9/11 attacks in 2001, so how can Rio start this entire paragraph of bulleted points with “According to DO”. Caught red handed making things up. Now I can be accused of this too but I don’t say Do said. What I have done is determined that the 9/11 attacks were the “shaking” (earthquake) in:

Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

I have thoroughly analysed these verses in my book and somewhat on my blog. If this prophecy was fulfilled by that 9/11 event then note how it is after the Two (and crew, who are automatically with them) have ascended – risen out of their bodies in what Jesus called a Spirit Birth he compared to the Wind in an inability to see it and yet could be physically felt to exist.

And the battle of Armageddon actually began as the first war for souls which started when Ti and Do first came public in 1975 which Do talks a little about in the Beyond Human tapes and in a document that was not included in the Purple book.

Rio continues to write:

“-Now is the time of Judgement. However, it is not GOD who judges you it is you who judge yourself by your behavior. It is truely more of a qualification than judgement.
-During this time is also the cleansing of the planet (tilling of the the garden) to prepare for the next 6000 year cycle, the next planting of the garden.”

I don’t disagree with this based on what Do has said and what’s in prophecy.

He writes:

“-We whom physically survive the cleansing, what some call global warming, are here to sew the seeds of Truth, Goodness, Love, Understanding and Creativity for the next civilization. The Earth will change back in a short time. I think about twenty-thirty years. When the Earth’s poles shift, that will start the next 6000 year cycle. Have no fear. Nothing of value is lost. What you gain in this lifetime will remain part of you in the next.”

Again, he lists all these points as if Do said them and even among humans, I don’t recall much talk if any about Global Warming in 1997 so I doubt Do spoke about that to Rio. It is true that prophecy indicates the world will be destroyed by “fire” this time around and there are numerous indicators that the Sun is to put out great heat and that in the end it will be the “Lake of Fire” that consumes the BEAST (The U.S. secret govt that came from the release of the Luciferian space aliens from their bottomless pit), the False Prophet – those who claim to be Jesus and/or a returned Christ or Maitreya or Ascended Master or  the religious teachers with a primary focus on the Catholic heirarchy especially in Italy, etc. and then after 1000 years passes of recycling another type of classroom and the destruction of the Luciferians Space Aliens and Souls and Spirits whose names are not found in the Book of Life, also added to the Lake of Fire.
***

TJW: I have read over the content of the website and watched the videos numerous times. I find it troubling that some of the content/context seems to be coded wording, coded in the sense that people may misconstrue it as permission to commit suicide. Let me explain, when Do talks about how it isn’t suicide, but staying on earth would be suicide, etc. Or, to be more specific:

***
Sawyer’s comment: This segment below seems to be taken from the press release Do and Crew sent to Rkkody to give to the press on 3-22-1997.
***

The dilemma is we are here and most humans are thoroughly “hooked” to humanity. However, the same “grace” that was available at the end of the Representative’s mission 2000 years ago is available now with our presence. If you quickly choose to take these steps toward separating from the world, and look to us for help, you will see our Father’s Kingdom.

During a brief window of time, some may wish to follow us. If they do, it will not be easy. The requirement is to not only believe who the Representatives are, but, to do as they and we did. You must leave everything of your humanness behind. This includes the ultimate sacrifice and demonstration of faith — that is, the shedding of your human body. If you should choose to do this, logistically it is preferred that you make this exit somewhere in the area of the West or Southwest of the United States — but if this is not possible — it is not required. You must call on the name of TI and DO to assist you. In so doing, you will engage a communication of sorts, alerting a spacecraft to your location where you will be picked up after shedding your vehicle, and taken to another world — by members of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Only a Member of the Next Level can give you Life — can take you out of “Death” — but it requires that you disconnect, separate, from the last element holding you to the human kingdom.

We know what we’re saying — we know it requires a “leap of faith.” But it’s deliberate — designed for those who would rather take that leap than stay in this world.

We suggest that anyone serious about considering this go into their most quiet place and ask, scream, with all of their being, directing their asking to the Highest Source they can imagine (beyond Earth’s atmosphere), to give them guidance. Only those “chosen” by that Next Kingdom will know that this is right for them, and will be given the courage required to act.
*** end of Do’s press release ***

TJW: See where I could be led to believe that there is a coded language (actually not so coded) accepting suicide as an option for a higher calling? That is if you define suicide in the same way I do. Do understood it as staying, not going. Separation from Earth was the main focus. Don’t you think that is dismal, to say the least?

rep@heavensgate.com: We can understand how many people got confused by this. They thought Do was speaking to the public at large. We knew who Do was speaking to. It wasn’t the public. He was talking to a wide spread group of former members who had been in and out of the Group since 1975. There was literally hundreds of individuals scattered all over the planet and as a Shepard, he had to gather them up.

Do knew that he could only be speaking to those who had that “deposit of recognition” that had brought them into the Group and was still with them. These individuals had been adopted into the Next Level and could leave right away or wait until the next time the Next Level returned to earth. It would be their choice.

The Next Level knows there are more individuals who would accept the information after departure. We have been speaking with many over the past 20 years. Their time is coming but it will not be in this lifetime. We all have to wait for future incarnations to enter the Next Level. Premature death or human suicide goes nowhere except for triggering a new cycle of reincarnation.

*** Sawyers reply:
Again M & S say no one will accomplish anything “in this lifetime” but in a “future incarnation” as if there is anything Do said about that. Anyway the way Do spoke about Reincarnation had to do with:

Do from “Last Chance to Evacuate Earth Before It’s Recycled”:

“Now, let me describe this mission for a moment. Ti left, in Earth time, 1985, because Ti had assisted enough that it was time to turn responsibility over to Do, and for me then to begin a more serious communication with my Older Member, and to be dependent upon it and reliant upon it. When Ti and I were awakening, we entered this environment (to any significant degree) in the early `70’s. You’re looking at the body I’m wearing, and you’re saying, “You entered in the early `70’s? You’re certainly more than 20 something years old.” The body I’m wearing is, wow!, 65 years old. “I” (the mind/soul of the Next Level) entered at the same time my Older Member entered, which was in the early `70’s. You could think, “Well, that doesn’t make any sense.” If you’re “new age” – or whatever your belief is regarding reincarnation – you could think, “Well, I don’t understand, I thought reincarnation occurs at the beginning of an infant’s life.” No, I’m sorry to say, that’s not accurate. A mind begins when that infant is born, and that infant’s genetic package begins to express itself as that mind develops. And it is a mind, it is a spirit. But then a spirit or a mind that had previously occupied another human plant, but has gone into the spirit world (or is outside of a body because it lost its body from death or whatever, but is still in the environment), can move in and take over that vehicle and be stronger than the mind that is the mind of that vehicle. In other words, it can invade that vehicle. It can take it over. It can pretty much keep the mind of that vehicle quiet and do what it wants to do with that vehicle.

Now, the lower forces know this. They teach spirits to do this after they leave their bodies. They let them know that they’re capable of doing that. You can say, “You mean that you and Ti came into bodies in `72, so you’re `body snatchers,’ in a sense.” Well, the Level Above Human made this garden and its design, made the human plants for their purposes, and my Grandfather (Ti’s Father) sent us into this environment with a crew that had work to do. Now, we did come in and prep the “vehicles.” We actually set aside this “plant” that I’m wearing (this “vehicle” that I’m wearing) and the plants of the crew (the classroom), and the plant that Ti chose to wear. A “deposit” of a little bit of information was put in those plants that set them aside for the time when the mind was to significantly come in. And therefore, the mind that is now in my vehicle (body) cannot relate to that plant’s history, prior to the time that my mind came in significantly. So, who the plant was that I’m now wearing, prior to the early `70’s is just a fuzzy, dismal memory, because it is just like putting on a suit of clothes that had a history to it. And if I tried, I could invade some of that history and dredge it up, but it is so unattractive to me and it’s such a low vibration to me (if I can use that word without sounding “new age” to some) – it’s repulsive to me because it’s certainly very human. This vehicle certainly indulged in human behavior, human addictions, human ways, as every other human does.”

From “’88 UPDATE – THE UFO TWO AND THEIR CREW” Do writes about reincarnation:

“Whatever you crave or haven’t overcome at the loss of one body carries over to any next body, if the Gardener chooses to replant you. That is, the capacity of your new body will match the level of comprehension and control that you (the mind) achieved while occupying any previous body (vehicle).  You will “pick up where you left off,” so to speak, with whatever programming or physical addictions you had not overcome.  Do not confuse this with the popular concept of reincarnation.”

Notice how Do says a replanting can occur “if the Gardener chooses to replant you.” None of us, no matter how much of a student we were or are attempting to be are a Gardener so it’s not our choice what is done with our Soul or Spirit when we drop our human vehicle.

TJW: I understand, but don’t you think there should be an explanation on the website, or a warning? It kind of seems irresponsible not to have one due to the people who may misunderstand.

rep@heavensgate.com: The Group asked us to maintain the website as it was in March, 1997. They did not have any warning on it.

***
Sawyers comment:
I agree with M & S on this. It’s a matter of who one chooses to be “responsible to”. Of course for those that don’t think it’s even possible that the Next Level exists or that Ti and Do were from that Next Level, it could seem irresponsible to not warn people. However, I believe that there is no one who would consider taking their own vehicles life following the instructions Do and Crew provided as then they would be calling out to Ti and Do for help to know if that kind of action was right for them. If they did that I am confident Ti and Do would answer them in some way they could not deny, but even if they did somehow lay down their life without consulting with Ti and Do beforehand, as far as the Next Level is concerned there would be nothing lost as they can just take that soul or spirit and move it into another human vehicle whenever that might be timely. In other words their faith would probably qualify them to be “saved” even if it wasn’t for the reason of wanting to be closer to the Next Level and follow their instructions in this regard. However, as I’ve said, for those who have told me they were going to commit suicide, I then felt responsible to point out to them, what was written by Ti and Do and Crew that indicated, to do so to escape hard lessons in the human kingdom would not be the right motivation as those lessons would have to be repeated anyway so why not ask the Next Level to help with their learning those lessons now following the other options for service provided by Do and Crew as shown in the metamorphic formula Jwnody wrote about.
***

(TJW – Troy James Weaver is the author of Marigold, Witchita Stories, and Visions. He lives in Wichita, Kansas with his wife and two dogs.)

Advertisements

2 Responses to “Sawyers critique of thefanzine.com interview with Heaven’s Gate Webmasters”

  1. Beau P. Says:

    Bonnie Lu Nettles wore make-up and made NO apologies for doing so.

    • sawyer Says:

      Do told us that Ti applied a little eyeliner to her vehicle, which I observed and never saw anything more, so no shadow, or blush or lipstick or mascara, etc.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s


%d bloggers like this: