Article in San Diego Reader quotes Mrc saying “suicide is futile” when DO and Crew said it was not in their case

Here is a report in the San Diego Reader with my comment. The link to the report is:
Sawyers comment:
I was with the group for 19 years and am known as Sawyer. Mark who is the webmaster I suspect you emailed with, who doesn’t represent Ti and Do if he doesn’t research what he says about them, and is even going against their teachings to say, “suicide is futile” because Ti and Do and Crew never said that. It is very important to be accurate about this.
 
However that doesn’t mean “suicide” as humans see it is of value either. It’s explained in several places in the Heaven’s Gate Book and on the Web Site and in the press release they instructed for Rkkody to give to the press.
 
But this is why the current Heaven’s Gate website webmaster, Mark, known as Mrcody in the class (Mrc for short), was kicked out of the class, the only one, though his current wife, known as Srfody (Srf) in the class, chose to leave the class with him, I guess for her own reasons as she never said her reasons that I was aware, though clearly sided with Mrc over the days when Mrc was offered help by DO and the student body, which was our procedure to do.
 
No one that wasn’t eager to follow all the lesson steps was permitted to stay in the classroom and many of the things Ti and Do instigated ended up testing what some really wanted and resulted in their leaving the class when things didn’t pan out the way they at first anticipated.
 
I don’t know what reasons Mark has for not saying the whole truth unless he was taken out of context with is common to take place with certain media organizations but if that is all he said it seems to be because Mark values his opinion over DO’s instruction and teachings and guidelines provided that he made that statement. (This is not at all the first time I’ve seen this or the equivalent quote from Mark. (I don’t know if Mark shares everything he says with Sarah or not).
 
Do and Crew stayed in touch with Mrc/Srf and they wanted that contact with Do and the class and were offered certain logistical tasks – dealing with funds and such in the event of their “exit.” Ti and Do always prepared for that impending exit where they would prepare to take care of all the legalities – what to do with cars and registrations and any funds and tax returns and signing power of attorney documents, etc. so they weren’t leaving a “mess” when they left.
 
But Mrc/Srf weren’t aware that this time the exit was decided this time, instead of preparatory as they both knew happened a number of times before during their twelve years in the class.
 
Ti and Do always examined all exit options, even ready for them to change at the last minute, hence the 38 students all packed a travel bag and had a little money on them and passports and Drivers licenses, etc.(which there is a bigger story to).
 
But no one should take my word for it when they left plenty of writings that gave the picture of how they thought about “suicide”. I included the context up until mention of suicide which is also important to understanding the truth.
 

I. First, this was posted on their Heavensgate.com website: (I’ve dated this to approx. late 1996 to early 1997 as it was late in 1996 that they said they started compiling their Book, “How and When “Heaven’s Gate” (The Door to the Physical Kingdom Level Above Human) May Be Entered – An Analogy of Our Materials”):

OUR POSITION AGAINST SUICIDE
——————————————————————————–
We know that it is only while we are in these physical vehicles (bodies) that we can learn the lessons needed to complete our own individual transition, as well as to complete our task of offering the Kingdom of Heaven to this civilization one last time. We take good care of our vehicles so they can function well for us in this task, and we try to protect them from any harm.

We fully desire, expect, and look forward to boarding a spacecraft from the Next Level very soon (in our physical bodies). There is no doubt in our mind that our being “picked up” is inevitable in the very near future. But what happens between now and then is the big question. We are keenly aware of several possibilities.

It could happen that before that spacecraft comes, one or more of us could lose our physical vehicles (bodies) due to “recall,” accident, or at the hands of some irate individual. We do not anticipate this, but it is possible. Another possibility is that, because of the position we take in our information, we could find so much disfavor with the powers that control this world that there could be attempts to incarcerate us or to subject us to some sort of psychological or physical torture (such as occurred at both Ruby Ridge and Waco).

It has always been our way to examine all possibilities, and be mentally prepared for whatever may come our way. For example, consider what happened at Masada around 73 A.D. A devout Jewish sect, after holding out against a siege by the Romans, to the best of their ability, and seeing that the murder, rape, and torture of their community was inevitable, determined that it was permissible for them to evacuate their bodies by a more dignified, and less agonizing method. We have thoroughly discussed this topic (of willful exit of the body under such conditions), and have mentally prepared ourselves for this possibility (as can be seen in a few of our statements). However, this act certainly does not need serious consideration at this time, and hopefully will not in the future.

The true meaning of “suicide” is to turn against the Next Level when it is being offered. In these last days, we are focused on two primary tasks: one – of making a last attempt at telling the truth about how the Next Level may be entered (our last effort at offering to individuals of this civilization the way to avoid “suicide”); and two – taking advantage of the rare opportunity we have each day – to work individually on our personal overcoming and change, in preparation for entering the Kingdom of Heaven.

II. Next is Do and Crew’s Press Release on the last day of their 3 stage exit of their human bodies – dated 3-22-97

The following is a press release written by Do and his Crew and sent to a student named Rkkody (who was not physically with them at the time) with the instruction to release it to the news media. It contains the facts surrounding who they were/are, where they came from and why they chose to exit their bodies at this time by laying them down for the Physical Evolutionary Next Level Kingdom Above Human aka The Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven, that the world will see as a mass suicide that took place in March of 1997. Here is the content of that letter:

To be issued to the News Media

3-22-97

By the time you read this, we suspect that the human bodies we were wearing have been found and that a flurry of fragmented reports have begun to hit the wire services. For those who want to know the facts, the following statement has been issued.

HEAVEN’S GATE “Away Team” Returns to Level Above Human in Distant Space

RANCHO SANTO FE, CA — By the time you receive this, we’ll be gone — several dozen of us. We came from the Level Above Human in distant space and we have now exited the bodies that we were wearing for our earthly task, to return to the world from whence we came — task completed. The distant space we refer to is what your religious literature would call the Kingdom of Heaven or the Kingdom of God.

We came for the purpose of offering a doorway to the Kingdom of God at the end of this civilization, the end of this age, the end of this millennium. We came from that Level, that time, that space, and entered this one. And in so doing, we had to enter human bodies — which we did, for the most part, in the mid-seventies. Now it was time for us to leave those bodies (vehicles) — bodies that we borrowed for the time we were here (by previous arrangement) for this specific task. The task was not only to bring in information about that Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human, but to give us the experience of working against the forces of what the human evolutionary level, at this time, has become. And while it was a good learning experience for us, it also gave all who ever received knowledge from that Kingdom an opportunity to recognize us and this information, and to even move out of the human level and into the Next Level or the Next Evolutionary Level, the “Kingdom of Heaven,” the Kingdom of God.

The Kingdom of God, the Level Above Human, is a physical world, where they inhabit physical bodies. However, those bodies are merely containers, suits of clothes — the true identity (of the individual) is the soul or mind/spirit residing in that “vehicle.” The body is merely a tool for that individual’s use — when it wears out, he is issued a new one.

No one can enter the Kingdom of Heaven by trying to live a good life in this world, and then, thinking that when this world’s life takes your body, you get to “go to heaven.” The only time that Next Kingdom can be entered is when there is a Member or Members of that Kingdom who have come into the human kingdom, incarnated as we have, offering clarification of that information. To get into a discarnate condition just by disconnecting from your body doesn’t mean that you are going to go anywhere, whether that loss of body is “premature” or not. When we step out of our “vehicle,” we have to know where and who our “tour guide” (our Shepherd) is — for what’s next. We have to know we can connect with a Shepherd whom we trust, and that we have decided, “If that Shepherd will have me, I want to continue to be a sheep — and I will do everything I can to please that Shepherd.”

Periodically, that Next Level sends in a Representative — a Shepherd — and offers a graduation class, offers life, out of this evolutionary level into that Next Evolutionary Level, and we are at the end of one of those times. TI and DO were the names used by the Representatives of that Next Level, the Kingdom of God, sent to the “surface” of this planet to serve as our Teachers/”Midwives” at this time.

During a brief window of time, some may wish to follow us. If they do, it will not be easy. The requirement is to not only believe who the Representatives are, but, to do as they and we did. You must leave everything of your humanness behind. This includes the ultimate sacrifice and demonstration of faith — that is, the shedding of your human body. If you should choose to do this, logistically it is preferred that you make this exit somewhere in the area of the West or Southwest of the United States — but if this is not possible — it is not required. You must call on the name of TI and DO to assist you. In so doing, you will engage a communication of sorts, alerting a spacecraft to your location where you will be picked up after shedding your vehicle, and taken to another world — by members of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Only a Member of the Next Level can give you Life — can take you out of “Death” — but it requires that you disconnect, separate, from the last element holding you to the human kingdom.

We know what we’re saying — we know it requires a “leap of faith.” But it’s deliberate — designed for those who would rather take that leap than stay in this world.

We suggest that anyone serious about considering this go into their most quiet place and ask, scream, with all of their being, directing their asking to the Highest Source they can imagine (beyond Earth’s atmosphere), to give them guidance. Only those “chosen” by that Next Kingdom will know that this is right for them, and will be given the courage required to act.

III. Next is part of a document in the Heaven’s Gate Book written by one of the elder students (joined in 1975). His original name was Stamina I believe so when that was shortened to “Stm” and added the “family name” of “ody” became Stmody:

Evolutionary “Rights” for “Victims” By Stmody

* The right to identify as the mind, not the vehicle, knowing that if I should lose the vehicle, it would not be me that would die, because “I” am the spirit or soul, not the body, and “I” continue on.

My understanding is that the soul is actually freed from the discomfort of an old “suit of clothes” when the vehicle is dropped. It doesn’t make any sense to me that the driver “dies” when his “car” (body) stops “running.” To me, the body is just a “leaf” of the “tree,” and the genetic strain (family tree) doesn’t end when the leaf’s function becomes impaired. When it is becoming a burden on me and others, and whenever my choices are so restricted that growth is impossible, or ridiculously difficult, it is part of the design to evacuate it like a tree sheds a leaf. In contrast, human suicide (identifying as the body and trying to “end it all” for the purpose of avoiding the growth pains of lessons) gets you nowhere. It seems clear that longevity, physical beauty, and sex appeal are all Luciferian concepts based on identifying as only the body and its desires. After all, what’s the point of extending a life that’s meaningless? All that’s important to me is how much can I change to be like those who are already members of the Kingdom of Heaven, because I want to be a match for my new Next Level vehicle.

IV. Wknody joined in 1994. Here is what she wrote that mentions suicide:

Matter of Life or Death? YOU Decide By Wknody

Before I begin to share my position, I feel compelled to “set the record straight” on the true meaning of life and death from our point of view. When we speak of life, we are referring to the mind, and in our case, the soul, for that is what we identify as. Those of us in this classroom have been given a very precious “gift. “We call it the “gift of Life” because we have been given a “soul deposit,” a “chip” of sorts, and contained within this “deposit” is a tiny beginning of something very special to us. We call it Next Level mind. This is true knowledge from the Next Level, the Level Above Human, or perhaps the term most familiar to you, the Kingdom of Heaven. In reality, this is the only knowledge that is of any value to anyone, that is of course, for those who want life. You see, death to us, has nothing to do with the body and everything to do with the mind, and in our case, the soul.

What we know to be true is that the body is no more than a container that will inevitably deteriorate, whether it be by disease, accident, or old age – in spite of the body’s demise, it is the mind that survives. We also know from our Teachers that a mind without a soul contains no Next Level Knowledge, no TRUTH, and consequently, no LIFE. It is nothing more than a spirit, and when its container is discarded, it simply goes into the spirit world, the discarnate world. It goes there “stuck,” so to speak, at the same level of consciousness that it had when it lost its container, or body. Because it had no Next Level knowledge/truth (synonymous) in it, it cannot go anywhere, it cannot grow or develop, so essentially, it is dead, for it stays among those who can do nothing but cyclically and repeatedly die. But in our case, since we have been given this “gift,” this soul “deposit,” and we have chosen to pursue this knowledge, this truth, this reality, then and only then does our mind/soul have life in it, because it now has the potential to grow and develop, as long as we continue to accept the nourishment given to us, for the Next Level offers us life indefinitely as long as we are faithful servants and pleasing. But, on the other hand, if we reject or deny this truth -this nourishment – we literally die, for we have no life in us if we separate from this knowledge that comes through our Teachers, our Older Members. They are, quite literally, our lifeline. You see, our Older Members represent the Next Level, wherein resides the Chief of Chiefs, the Creator of all there is, the most High God. Realistically speaking, They are the “way, the truth, and the light.”

So, as I try to relate to you throughout this writing, try to understand that when I speak of I, I am only referring to the mind/soul. I am not referring to the body or, as we refer to it, the “vehicle” that I am wearing. As I said earlier, this vehicle is just a container. In fact, to lose this vehicle means absolutely nothing to me, and most of the time it is an encumbrance to me. But to lose my Next Level mind, this “gift,” because of denying this knowledge and, subsequently, my Teachers, who bear the only real truth, is suicide in the truest sense of the word.

V. Here are a couple references to suicide in the audio tapes for those who have them and want to research what they said in them. I don’t have them transcribed:

098
02/21/84 Upgrading the humans-set a goal(teen-age suicides) getting on a track-desire for betterment-concept of self-improvement. Areas for progress-1. Committing crimes 2. More refined way of life. 3. Living for physical sensation 4. Diet & nutrition 5. Improved education -wasting minutes. 55 min.

166
10/17/84 Questions & answers. Understanding. Signals &strains. How our signals are received. Types of suffering. Time spans, human time vs. Next Level time. The last days. Slowdown. Suicide. 85 min.
*************

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24 Responses to “Article in San Diego Reader quotes Mrc saying “suicide is futile” when DO and Crew said it was not in their case”

  1. The comet-riding Texan Nurse Says:

    How y’all doin’ today?

  2. bonerman -- huge boners Says:

    LOL true SWYODY… Do and the class didn’t reach out to you before they committed suicide. By that time, they’d forgotten about you totally.

    That mentally dull black lady was only with the group for a short time before the suicides. I guess she understood in months what you never could understand?

    No! if you would have stopped masturbating and stayed, you you have committed suicide, too.

    They forgot about you completely — but you waste so much time writing raving screeds about the group as if you have insight into anything about them.

    Pathetic.

    • sawyer Says:

      Another of the common and frequent comments that say nothing but like to appear as if they are smart and informed and in the know. How much investigation did you do about Dvvody to decide she was “mentally dull”? Who are you comparing her to? re: your last word. Jesus said that those who judge would be judged by how they judge others. Wow is that taking place more and more. People that fall into these narrow minded judgemental points of view are being led by the unseen “influences’ using their vehicles, mouths and brains and they are none the wiser and probably think they are witty.

    • crlody Says:

      Dave Goetzinger, you still havent found anything better to do than to hide behind multiple fake entities on wordpress? And you call Sawyer pathetic.

    • sawyer Says:

      Actually the facts are that They – Do and Crew didn’t forget about me. Carlan (Crlody) heard several comments about me, I think in late 1994 or early 1995. Then in 1996 Rkkody called me while I was living in Carmel, NY and passed on a message from Do that asked me “where my head was at” (as I recall). I told him that nothing has changed with me. It’s easy to make up stuff we want to be true and to falsely accuse people of things we have no experience with. If that’s what floats your boat that’s your choice but since I’m the one primarily being attacked and/or Ti and Do, I can make a positive from whatever negativity you throw at me, which is a Next Level way. For instance you are helping me remember things that others on this blog will hear for the first time and could prompt them to pull on Ti and Do’s mind that could lead them to a greater understanding of Ti and Do when they read and re-read and listen and re-listen to the materials They left behind.

  3. Eric Says:

    I’m listening to tape 166 –

    Do talks about how the class has moved from campgrounds to more comfortable living conditions so there is a different pace of living with more “suffering” / idle time. Part of this includes ruminations of shedding the vehicle which some humans pick up on – triggering suicides. For many people I’ve seen how they never can see past the exit and dismiss the information as a “death cult”. M & S probably get a fair amount of hate mail from individuals who see this as “anti-life”.

    The negative outlook is very strong and very hard to turn around and these days it makes sense to distill things to pithy slogans like “suicide is futile”. When in one lifetime it might be a stepping stone experience, there are tragic events like a young woman commanding her boyfriend to commit suicide in the news lately.

    This might not be very accurate – but one illustration that has occurred to me is how one might have more freedom of movement on foot – but far more ground can be covered when you are in a vehicle. A well-tuned vehicle can make a rapid and sustained effort toward Next Level ways.

    A couple other notable tapes are 108 & 109 – where there is discussion of how the information will resonate after the exit.

    • sawyer Says:

      I’ll have to listen to these three tapes you mentioned.

      I don’t agree that it makes sense to distill things to pithy slogans like Mark seems to use when they reverse what Do said. It’s never been about numbers of believers so no need to dilute the facts into misinformation. That’s why Christians by in large don’t know that they aren’t worshiping (working for/abiding by) what Jesus taught as it was distilled down to lies.

      From my experience, fielding negative emails can be fairly easy to deal with. I’m no stranger to receiving plenty over the last 15 years. They are never pleasant to deal with but it’s the territory each accepts if they want to serve Ti and Do. When I first was reawakening (still in process with ups and downs) I had a hard time dealing with the bottom lines in Do’s exit video’s and conveniently avoided the fact that DO left the “door” open to leave with him – to go to where He – where His Soul went after dropping his vehicle. But now I have to state the truth and let the chips fall where they may.

      I never got any indication from Ti and Do that “suicide,” in and of itself was a stepping stone to anything if it’s not given as an option by our Older Members. I would say it’s a case by case basis. Let’s say someone knows they will die but might save someone else by doing so, even in a split second decision. I wouldn’t be surprised in the Next Level wouldn’t save that soul or spirit since they showed the greatest love a human can show another, as Jesus said, to lay down their life for another.

      • Eric Says:

        It seems like your post has attracted some negativity – I was thinking of how M & S have been “front and center” since they run the website.

        From Glnody’s exit statement:

        “Some of you would undoubtedly ask me, “What if there is no God and this life is all you get?” First off, I can’t understand how someone could take a serious look at the universe and all of its complexity and believe that it all came into existence by happenstance. But for the sake of argument, let’s say there is no God, no Kingdom of Heaven, nothing beyond this brief existence. All I can say is this vehicle has had a far more wonderful life in this classroom than it ever would have had otherwise. I have had the experiences of at least a dozen beautiful lifetimes in these past 21 Earth-years. Nowhere else could I have found any friend as precious as each one of my dear, dear classmates. If I had not been a part of this classroom, I would have lived but one dreary lifetime. I can’t believe there is no God, but even if I knew that to be the case I would still choose this path if I had it to do over again. The controversy surrounding Doctor Kevorkian is whether or not it is acceptable to willingly exit the vehicle due to physical pain and suffering. We feel that the mental suffering of remaining in a world where you know you do not belong is certainly as severe. The human world is a hideous hell due to all of the poor choices humans have made since the beginning of this civilization. If this is all there is with nothing to look forward to beyond this, then why choose to extend your time in this hell?”

        It seems to me willingly exiting the vehicle when it is worn out and rejecting the mainstream of holding out for “natural death” can be a positive step – but it would be wrong to believe or to tell someone else that suicide guarantees entry to TELAH. At best it keeps one in forward motion.

  4. Marty Sands Says:

    They were a Doomsday UFO suicide cult. It was touching how the class was never critical of Herf or Bonnie Lu … nothing those two ever predicted ever happened. But that didn’t matter to the class b/c they were sort of “all in”… at that point most of the class didn’t care about the veracity of H&BL’s claims… they just wanted to be part of something… ANYTHING. It didn’t matter whether it was true or not.

    SWY got out because of his masturbation… now he’s free to weld in his current fascination which is the bible. H&BL never focused on the bible in the classes — but SWY-o spends hundreds of hours poring over the bible.

    With most Doomsday UFO suicide cults, the survivors get to pick up the narrative if they desire… most survivors realize how ridiculous the cult was and don’t want to talk about it again. For Sawyer, this is all he has now.

    He has his own little cult now with no members. He gets to play Herf in his own way.

    He isn’t harming anyone, so I say, while it is a waste of time, so be it.

    • sawyer Says:

      In this comment you make lots of grand standing absolute statements that represent ill informed opinions. So easy to play like you know all these things and can accurately judge me and others you don’t know personally. You sound like someone who was often leaving comments like this on this blog but maybe you are new with the same tune I’ve heard before. I casually wanted to be “enlightened” before I joined but that never crossed my mind as being a part of anything and I turned down being a regular follower of the sufi’s and the hare krishnas, Christian “Jesus Freaks” and others I could have easily joined up with but ended up debating the ones that were their disciples.

    • Eric Says:

      Marty strikes me as the kind of person who would press Ti & Do on the specifics of Next Level technology, emphasizing how he was promised a ride on a UFO and to see the Two die and resurrect after 3 days. Bonnie and Herf were vehicles, too, Marty – they were subject to interference and made mistakes. If you read “UFO Missionaries Extraordinary” you find that many of the ideas are consistent through to the exit. One idea that got fluffed off was that students would have any infirmities in their bodies healed before departure- but that one is still popular among Rapture believers. I think Ti’s early exit was a lesson for vehicles that were getting “too big for their britches”.

      I doubt anything will convince you this is anything more than a “Doomsday UFO Suicide Cult” – but if you listen to the tapes you will see that Ti & Do never predicted Doomsday. If they thought the world was going to be destroyed why make tapes and website? They knew this civilization would persist after the departure and the information would be useful for individuals seeking evolution.

      • sawyer Says:

        What is interesting about this statement:

        “One idea that got fluffed off was that students would have any infirmities in their bodies healed before departure”

        is how Do started the Transfiguration Diet regimen after Ti left her vehicle that started with Dr. Christophers mucousless diet system. It was about 4 or 5 years of use of this healing/cleansing diet that included a visit to the Boston Hippocrities Health Institute by Jwnody and Lvvody and incorporation of some of their routines to where we had a house (actually a house John Wayne used to own) in Costa Mesa, CA that was filled with 10 four level racks that were at least 6 ft long each to grow cafeteria trays of wheat grass juice, buckwheat sprouts, sunflower seed sprouts that became primary supplements and the basis of meals as we had this very green thick shake for lunch everyday made with rejuvilac (the water from fermented wheat berries).

        My vehicle broke out with a couple dozen tiny blood blisters that never went away all over my torso and my symptoms of vertigo went away mostly after that time though Do also had me do Colonic’s and had others on the Berson diet – a cancer center in Mexico that incorporated drinking raw liver that alxody and brnody were put on for a time. Lots more to this but how do we know that the students weren’t healed of their infirmaries then.

        It’s like also with the resurrection. It was never accurately designed to mean physical bodies would ascend. It was a soul rising from the dead in more ways than one – the Rev 11 “ascension” happened as planned. See my Rev 11 video’s and my book’s interpretation of the greek “apokteino auto” for a better definition as “separating by dying themselves”.

        From my research and experience people often left after major lesson shifts and that was because they didn’t have what it took to stick it out, rather than judge Ti and Do because it didn’t pan out exactly as they initially described.

        The spacecraft did come but the way the Next Level works is that they use everything as a test (lesson) criteria and those that have kept up with their lessons see the coursework through all their doubts. So there are no real mistakes.

        I just listened to tape 166 again and Do says in it that their use of credit cards for gas and the rental car wasn’t really a mistake because they had instruction to do it, even though they wouldn’t do such again “unless they once again had instructions to do it”.

        The same with waiting for the spacecraft or giving a time for exit (5 years) or saying the demonstration was cancelled or postponed (as they never did disqualify that from happening) but saying at the time that it could have happened then but Ti said the student body wasn’t ready to leave.

        Naysayers of course see all this as things not happening the way they thought as evidence they were not who they said they were but those same people, even if everything happened the way they said it would I would venture to guess would still not believe in Ti and Do. They just use those things and think it justified not believing in them and it’s true because the Next Level does want everyone to have the choice to not believe in them. That’s what makes it a free will school and the reason the Luciferian space alien fallen angels were allowed to influence the human kingdom to provide that negative side, which requires the students to “covert any negatives into positives”.

        So people think those who these so called “mistakes” didn’t affect were so needy to belong to something big that they couldn’t bear to question their commitment, yet each of us were provided with many opportunities to question our commitment and those that succeeded pushed past letting them result in their failure to graduate, which is still an ongoing lesson as you said.

        Yes the recycling will certainly happen but yes there was work to be done in the human kingdom before then that went into the second harvest wave as they were exiting that started in the 1990’s and was set into motion by 1997 as the first phase where the second phase they would monitor from their spacecrafts as Jesus said and as was said in the Revelation prophecy.

      • bonerman -- huge boners Says:

        eric, there is a point on the early tapes where bonnie lu swears up and down that she won’t die b/c of the cancer. you can tell in her voice that she thinks the whole subject is beyond silly to even discuss. she says something like “you mark my words, this will not kill me” or something to that effect.

        Be careful — their “always wrong” maneuver shouldn’t lend credence to what they said, right?

        the more wrong-sounding something is shouldn’t be the determinate for truth. truth only comes through the scientific method and apriori knowledge…

        Hey, the 70’s were a weird time. I get it… lots of hippy cults back then for people who were “so inclined”.

      • sawyer Says:

        “swears up and down” – and “says something like…” is totally unscientific. If you are that much a believer in “science” above all (which I don’t mean to sound derogatory about as “science” is quite the broad subject that can include the “science of frequencies and “mind”) wouldn’t you put out the effort to be exact to make your point, that is if you really wanted to build your case? Instead you give no specific evidence just your vague interpretation that is probably out of context, which is a trap many fall into in the science and religious communities while acting like they know.

        But it hardly matters because I know who Ti is and have no doubt that her cancer could have easily been eliminated. Do you believe in anything as possible that’s not provable by certain “sciences”? If not, why not think it possible. It’s not like humans know everything about everything and history really proves that, so what is it that humans can still learn about this fantastic environment. How many naysayers were there about the value of penicillin? How many still doubt humans walked on the moon or that the earth is roundish rather than flattish. Who knew that radioactivity could be used to both create death and kill the progression to death. Humans still don’t know how thoughts are actually generated and why humans can’t regenerate new body parts as some lower life forms can do. The list of what we don’t know is so long no one will ever see the end of that list I would predict because the Next Level designed the human kingdom with limitations so some wouldn’t be satisfied with anything so they might reach for answers which sets them up to receive some answers but that the ultimate answers come by reaching even beyond the stars having the perception as a gift from the Next Level that there are those that do have the answers that designed all the planets and life forms scientifically. The only reason some feel it natural to do that reaching, I believe is because they were given that avenue by that Above Human Kingdom Older Members, like Jesus taught.

      • Eric Says:

        Thanks for your reply, Sawyer – you’re on point about the Diet – I have the book but haven’t transitioned the vehicle to it yet.

        I am curious about the vehicle age of your detractor(s) on this page. On one hand they seem to be older- suggesting they were alive in the 1970’s and have listened to some of the tapes; but they also strike me as a younger edgy atheist.

        “bonerman” – if you can give me a specific tape number I will check out your description – but you know very little about me and this vehicle. I was in high school during the “Flying Spaghetti Monster” fad and am very familiar with your style (having lived it). I think you should practice some serious, quantitative science before you get on some Saganist* high horse about truth and certainty.

        “a priori knowledge” includes an Earth under the Heavens and life under the constraints of gravity.

        *speaking of which, Carl died suddenly of cancer, too. Kremlin agents have slipped radionuclides into people’s diets.

      • sawyer Says:

        re: the diet, I don’t think Ti and Do would have intended it to be like an instruction or they would have included it in the book or made mention of it at least. I say that because it was the foundation and that Do built upon it with additional items as he observed his response and his students responses to it. I went on it pretty consistently, but with a tiny bit of cheese and corn taco shells that we ate in the classroom and added tahini and banana/apple to my breakfast meal as we also had in the classroom after the Transfiguration diet was published. But the supplementation I’ve stuck to and credit the healing of my Lymes disease on it, with the mucousless diet. I went from not able to bend my legs due to joint swelling over both my legs and feet and weak muscles in my arms and wrists and unable to sleep because of pain for a while, that fortunately left and returned a number of times over the last year but is to date nearly fully absent. I dropped wheat and other grain carbs except for brown rice. No sugar products and only a little cheese for dairy no more than once a day and in a limited serving and only occasionally do I have a scrambled egg or some chicken or turkey in one meal and always had two very large green salads – heavy on fresh spinach and lots of fresh garlic cut very fine to add to salads and hot foods after they come off the stove to preserve their value as a natural antibiotic. I still have to be careful that I don’t carry too much weight while I walk someplace and especially up and down steps. I kept on trying stuff and then cutting them out and I also had a shingles outbreak for the first time but I think I got that from my x years ago when we were together but had never seen it surface. It lasted for several weeks and has seemed to resurface in a lessor way last month and has not returned since. It’s also helped me with a little angina symptoms I had. I also didn’t uses the blackstrap mollasses because I have teeth problems since a young kid. (Do told me it was because of the water on Long Island where my vehicle was raised). Perhaps if I’d gone on it all the way it wouldn’t have taken a year to see the symptoms subside.

      • sawyer Says:

        Eric: I have no idea about the ages of these two but as Crlody pointed out they sound the same as one or more who may have used different names who had listened to the tapes to find dirt on Ti and Do and finding none couldn’t help but generate their own dirt with inaccurate statements as if they were facts.

        What “knowledge” is there to the Earth being under the heavens and under gravity. But perhaps that was a realization from centuries ago?

        Were you suggesting the sagan was murdered by the russians. I’d never heard that. If so why?

      • Eric Says:

        I was taking about “bonerman”‘s reference to “a priori knowledge” – which is another way of saying “common sense” – which, like the scientific method, cannot answer the question “Why?”

        As for Carl Sagan – I recall from his biography that he made some powerful enemies for advancing the hypothesis of “nuclear winter”. This is speculation bordering on fake news but it isn’t hard to imagine all governments have means of poisoning “dangerous” individuals that can look like natural causes. But on the other hand humans working in Science/Medicine in the 1960’s and 70’s had high exposure risk to radiation and other carcinogens.

      • sawyer Says:

        I suppose when a popular scientist starts bucking the establishment science and related industry eg. Nuclear developments – they can become the collateral damage seen as necessary to keep alive whatever agenda. Like when do we ever see an article that suggests Nuclear power could be contributing to global warming while billions of very “hot” particles are strewn into the atmosphere every second or so from every plant and all it takes is one such particle in any living system to reak havoc on that life, depending on where it settles and for how long. I’ve heard that a number of outspoken naturpaths and anti-vaxer doctors have turned up dead from a variety of seeming “accidents”.

    • crlody Says:

      Marty Sands/Dave Goetzinger, everything you state is your OPINION. While it is a waste of my time to read your ignorant opining…..so be it.

      • bonerman -- huge boners Says:

        i should contact this “Dave Goetzinger” … a very google-able name… and tell him that you are slandering his name on a hippy cult chat board.

      • marty Says:

        bonerman…. you fell for it too weren’t you a member of the space hippies? weren’t you married to dvvody?

      • crlody Says:

        Never been married

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