Posts Tagged ‘Jesus’

DO Audio Tape Transcript 5.23.1994 – Inverness, CA – Part 1 of 2

July 5, 2019
DO Audio Tape Transcript 5.23.1994 – Inverness, CA – Part 1 of 2

(Transcribed by Nisha and Edited by Sawyer)

Sawyer note: At about 8:20 DO talks about why he was fired from the Episcopal church where he worked as the head of music – because of the response to an article that came out that described what TI and Do were teaching at the Unitarian church – theosophy and metaphysics. He made no mention of having an affair with a student, which I had read may have happened in the 1960’s, before he became divorced though it’s applied in some media as a current event to TI and Do’s beginning together.

In DO telling this story, it’s also apparent where DO met TI in 1972 in a hospital where TI worked as a nursery nurse – taking care of preemie babies but at the time of their meeting was subbing for another nurse and was delivering a prescription to someone who was sick in the hospital who DO was visiting. Hence the misinformation still repeated that they met in a psychiatric hospital where DO was allegedly a patient was just wrong. One evidence of that is what psychiatric hospital also has a ward for newborns?

DO made no bones about his vehicle’s living as what was then called a homosexual life style and being very sexual and mingling in high society and engaging in alcohol usage. TI expressed that DO’s vehicle got into all the things that were needed for him to be able to relate to students who had made those things their behaviors and ways, to help them overcome them as he did. That overcoming for him even began up to a year before he met TI.

This story of DO and TI’s beginning, that he tells in this tape, He and TI told their students in the 1980’s, if I recall even a couple times in parts before TI left her vehicle in 1985. Then DO wrote about it in the document; ’88 Update – The UFO Two and Their Crew, which is part of the Heaven’s Gate Book still posted on Heavensgate.com. DO also spoke about it in the first of the twelve part video series entitled, Beyond Human – The Last Call that students appeared with him on, including me, as a “helper” task.

To me this is very important for the integrity of the true story to draw from all the sources as much as possible to have a comprehensive portrayal of the whole truth. This way people would be able to recognize what in the media that is still repeated by recent articles was misinformation and even disinformation as some slant a story the way they want to, to sell it, whether they do this consciously or not.

The setting of this meeting was just 5 months into DO’s splitting us up into 4 groups, of which I was a part, outfitting us with vans and camping gear to begin holding public meetings again. This effort began on January 1, 1994 (though we had two preliminary meetings  was after nearly 17 years (1976 to 1993) of virtual silence towards the public at large while students were led through the overcoming of humanness process that pushed out students who were not serious enough.

So in attendance of these Inverness meetings were some of the older students and the new students who had just joined after attending a meeting that was put on by one or more of the 4 groups (that became 5 groups as new students joined). Most if not all of the new students joined without having met DO, so these for some may have been their first meetings) with DO. Public meetings ended in Boston, MA on August 18th 1994. For a detailed list of all the meeting locations and dates from 1975-1976 and then in 1994 refer to section 6 of the Heaven’s Gate Book, also available on my blog; sawyerhg.wordpress.com

Audio tape begins:

DO: I don’t want to approach a meeting as casually as we approached this one. As far as noise and yikkidy yak and so forth. And we feel that it’s more appropriate for you to find your seats and make some order and be quiet for a few minutes and try to quiet your brain a little so that when we start to talk you’re in a little more receptive frame of Mind rather than my having to talk about it like we’re doing now. So let’s try make a habit of that so when we meet we try get our shuffling done before we meet.

In the night, I realized that there were a couple of things we started to talk about in our last meeting that we didn’t finish and I know you have full tummies and you didn’t get much rest last night and I don’t know if you had a chance for a nap today but I know that probably some of you didn’t get a chance, maybe some of you did? Did some of you get a little nap? Some wanted naps and some didn’t. Did you get a nap? (asking a student) well, I just really want you to do your best to be as alert as you can and as receptive as you can and I also want you to if a question comes to your mind, jot a little word or two down so that you remember the question, and ask it and I would welcome you.

I started telling you last night about TI and Do and their jail time and something happened and we got on something else and I thought well they could wonder all kinds of things about TI and Do and their jail time. Just to give you a little brief understanding of that.

One of our students — or the first person who came with us said wherever you go I want to go and we didn’t know what was happening we had just awakened.

But we had shared with this individual whose vehicle just happens to be a sister of one of the vehicles in the classroom now but we had shared with this individual what we were aware of during our clumsy period of trying to accept some Next Level Mind in and she said is there any way I could tag along? And for a while we said no, maybe we could meet you for a day or two from town to town we’ll let you know what direction we’re going and maybe we’ll meet you and then we’ll go our way and you go yours and we could meet you again.

So this went on for a while and she had a petroleum company credit card that she said this would help you some I know your needs are great I want you to feel free to use this credit card for gas money. And the funny thing is, I think we used the credit card two or three times and that’s all we used it and we kept feeling uncomfortable about using it.

On Christmas Eve, I don’t remember the year but it was the year of Kohoutek I do remember that. Anyone know what year that is? Sometime in the 70s after 72 before 75 after 72 – somewhere there 73 or 74. TI and I found ourselves in a, you know, TI’s vehicle and this vehicle, the vehicles came from environments and backgrounds that were very comfortable, like many of you came from comfortable backgrounds but when this change was happening we were compelled to go with it and we had no concern for anything else and in the process, as I began to tell you, friends dropped away, family turned against us and I don’t know if some of you knew that this vehicle’s dad was a minister and this was extreme for a Presbyterian minister and this vehicle had become a Episcopalian and you know that really upset the minister to go to another denomination.

TI was a, which I think is extremely interesting symbolism because TI’s vehicle was a nurse in the nursery yet TI didn’t see the infants the way humans see infants. TI saw them completely different. What she would do is if she took a special interest in one of the infants she’d go do a horoscope on them. (class laughs)

And of course TI came from a very strong Baptist background but the more that she was beginning to awaken and her life was beginning to fall apart, one of the strange things that happened when TI and I met, when this vehicle was visiting someone in the hospital and TI came into the room to administer some prescription to the person in the hospital. So in addition to tending to the nursery she also tended to some of the patients in the room and that’s where this vehicle met TI was in the room while this vehicle was visiting someone sick in the hospital.

And from that day on it was madness because there was something that we had to do together and it was difficult to accept and I tried to stop it and TI would try to stop it and yet we were still compelled to do it and we didn’t know why we felt compelled to do it. I’m giving you just a real rushed – the older classmates have heard this in probably longer form.

And during that little time that we were working together and of course TI had family and this vehicle had already separated from family and children and had gone another direction and we opened a little place first called: Christian Arts Centre at the Unitarian church.

And in the Unitarian church we were studying everything people wanted to study, Eastern religions, metaphysics, Theosophy and the Unitarians thought it was great. And of course at the same time this vehicle was the head of the music at a large episcopal church and in that city an article had come out that we had opened this Christian Arts centre and we were teaching theosophy and study all of these crazy things and within a week the vehicle was fired from that task and people just very rapidly started turning away from us and wanting nothing to do with us.

The Christian Arts centre then moved way out in the country in order to get away from people and opened a place called “Know place” K-N-O-W. And at Know Place students came there and studied metaphysics and of course this vehicle was studying metaphysics as fast as it could study metaphysics because TI had a real running start and TI had to slow me down because I was so preoccupied with things the vehicle could read to try to catch up on that study – now all of this happened in a period of a very few months.

The Christian Arts centre had occurred in the summertime of whatever it was, 72,73 and by that December 31st or January 1st of that same year we had left that town altogether so we had Christian Art centre and Know Place that taught all these students and when we were out of town we said we can’t be relationship with – this vehicle was also teaching in a Catholic university and strange combination wasn’t it but because of what we were into and the grapevine was getting around and even though it was a large town – oh and also because TI said to me “we’ve got to live under the same roof” and I said, well what’s your husband going to say? and TI just, she didn’t see any problem! (class laughs)

I couldn’t understand how she could not see a problem with that and I said well I see how there could be a problem with that and she said oh no he’ll understand! And because he was the first one to make a major contribution to the Christian Arts centre and Know Place and then she went and announced to him that we were going to be in this separate place and I don’t know why but the Next Level just blinded her and she thought he was going to accept it and of course he didn’t.

And he thought that I wanted to steal TI from him because of human interest in her and all the people that or most of the people who knew us all this vehicles relationships and friends had thought I had been bewitched by this witch and I’m not saying TI would ever consider herself a witch, certainly not. But felt that I was under her spell and the same thing all of TI’s friends and relations had thought I was the demon that had come in and destroyed her marriage and her relationship with her children and all.

Well, this went at a very accelerated pace and the husband would stop me in the middle of intersection in town and try to pick a fist fight in the middle of the intersection with me because I was messing up his life and we had to get a court order to keep him from coming and tearing up things at Know Place and things were just madness.

And we didn’t know what was happening – all of a sudden the university job was going down the drain and work at the episcopal church was going down the drain and TI was working less and less at the hospital and we were spending more and more time at Know Place. And students were coming to Know Place and the girl I spoke of was a student at Know Place.

When we left at midnight of December 31st, it was strange that we left that town at midnight December 31st and 31 days… we left there and we went off to a – we rented a little ranch house in the hill country and we didn’t know why but we knew we had to be isolated and then things started happening very rapidly and TI said we can’t stay here and we have to make a living we can’t just stay here, we’re going to have to earn a living whatever it is we got to do or trying to do we’ve got to earn a living and I said we’re going to be taken care of and TI said well I don’t know who in the world you think is going to take care of us and so TI went and took a job at a nearby hospital for 3 days I think, until that was the end of that and after that we were just doing whatever we could to survive – which meant we were doing anything. We were janitoring at churches, we were painting rocks, anything to get by. With no concern at all of what we’d put in our tummies or what we would put on our backs or how long it was between laundry it was like all of a sudden nothing meant anything to us except what we were doing, whatever it was we just really didn’t know what we were doing.

And this individual when Kohoutek came we found ourselves in St. Louis in a snowstorm and first of all fast we went to Los Angeles in that hilltop area we lived on money we picked up out of the beach. Down on Hermosa Beach the waves would wash in coins. I mean literally wash in coins and we could make 5 or 6 dollars a day picking up coins that would wash up on the beach. That was all the Taco Bell and all the tostadas that we needed and then some! And we did that for a while the we migrated – all we had was a little sports car that was Do’s vehicles – just a little Fiat 2 seater sports car, two suitcases tied on the back of a little sport scar and we migrated to Las Vegas and stayed in a backroom of a metaphysical centre of a very dear friend (DO chokes up a bit) named Berta who still has a metaphysical centre there and when we had a group there that gave a meeting there years ago he stood up and said “These guys are for real. They were with me for so long a time and I believe everything They said”. And he gave a really good testimony at one of our meetings and then migrated up to Oregon and found ourselves in Portland, coming down the hill from Mt. Hood the engine blew on the little sports car and just died a death across the street from an Ananda Marga house so we spent the next two months in the Ananda Marga house sleeping on the floor of the Ananda Marga house. And they were very good to us and they were very interested in what was going on with us and we were regular attendants at the theosophical chapter in the town and whatever else that we could learn we spent hours just like we spent hours at this little chapel here we had a friend offered us a house to could stay for a couple weeks here in Inverness.

We told what we knew, which was bits and pieces, to a writer who lived in the house behind us who was the same writer who did the story for Jurassic Park. And he was very very interested in everything we had to say and he would come back and just want more of whatever we had to say and all of a sudden one day he was angry at us it was like we were demons and we were filling his head with stuff that would ruin his life and he didn’t want to hear another word, just very suddenly.

Well we had – after we were in the Ananda Marga house we moved while we were in one town somebody ran into the back of the sport car and an insurance claim came through for the damage that was done to the sport scar and it was 1600 dollars and boy were we rich all of a sudden, 1600 dollars. We bought an old jalopy in Portland and we put some decent tires on it – actually the money came through after we had bought the jalopy because we had gone to Gold Beach and we had no money at Gold Beach, Oregon and we were back on the Rogue river at the Hideaway Campground and all we could do was study the Bible and freeze to death bathing in that Rouge river and stayed in a little station wagon.

We had a cot in the back of the station wagon and one slept in the cot and one slept on the floor and we were there weeks and weeks by ourselves and we ate blackberries off the tree. We painted stones with astrological signs on them and sold them on the street on Gold Beach to make enough money to buy cream and sugar to put on the blackberries. And that’s all we had was blackberries with cream and sugar and we thought it was a feast, the blackberries were delicious and we never got tired of them. And then we just started lacing the country and we went though southern Canada a time or two just doing anything we could to get by – every kind of odd – We dug test tanks for septic tanks near Grants Pass… something rapids – Savage Rapids! And we dug these two six foot two foot wide things in this backyard for 20 dollars to buy us food.

I’m just telling you all the crazy things because we didn’t care what we did we did anything. And it didn’t matter, it really didn’t matter and we usually bathed in streams, with castile bars of soap that you can buy cheap and it was our shampoo and everything. These were vehicles that had been very particular and yet it meant nothing to us during this time nothing. Well we just laced the country doing anything and everything.

And that car we called Serpentine that old green station wagon that had served as our house died in St. Louis during a snowstorm on the night of the Kohoutek and – no that’s not quite right, it died in Charlotte North Carolina and we took a plane from Charlotte to St. Louis and I can’t remember why we did that but we took this plane but I had a credit card in my pocket that was still good and we had a lot of credit cards but didn’t want to use them but here was a credit card, still a good credit card and we had faith that if we used it’ll be okay to pay for it we didn’t have to worry about it – but anyhow we got to St. Louis at midnight and here we found ourselves at the airport and even we got off the plane there we were at a rental car place so we took the same credit card and said well we don’t have a car we don’t know what to do – let’s just rent a car until we know what we’re going to do so we rented this car and it was a Comet so it was a Mercury Comet, a brand new Mercury Comet and we rented that car and continued to lace the country and we’d go and talk to people, we’d talk to ministers anybody we could talk to and we were thrown out of place – out of place and archbishops would kick us out of the church and sometimes simple evangelists who had no education at all were frequently more interested in what we had to say but we visited – we went to Billy Graham’s home we went to Fallwells home in Lynchburg, Virginia and all these TV evangelists and tried to tell them what we wanted to tell them. Most of them wouldn’t see us – Oral Robert’s wouldn’t see us. I mean unless we had an appointment unless we were one of their followers, they didn’t care what we had to say.

Anyhow we rented this car and were oblivious to the fact that we had rented this car longer, it dawned on us that we had rented this car for longer than we originally intended to rent it for. So we wrote them a letter and said don’t worry about it we’ll pay you, we’re going to keep the car a little while longer and then I remember a little while longer we wrote a second letter and said ‘Don’t worry’ – this was to the company we rented the car from.

And then we were in Brownsville, Texas and we went to see this reporter and we told the reporter we had a story to tell him that was the most important story of his life and he said we’ll meet you somewhere because we said that we wanted to meet him in private and meet somewhere where we could talk to him long enough and we could really have a chance to tell our story to him.

Well we had no idea what this guy thought and this reporter thought we were going to tell him about illegal drugs coming across the Mexican border and so he had placed policeman and undercover police around the motel and all and we saw all these people standing around obvious that something strange was going on because they were watching us and here we went in to talk to him and said what are all these men halfway up the stairs down at the bottom of the stairs and in the door? And he said I don’t know maybe it’s because of your story and we got frightened. We left the motel and we took off running and immediately they thought uh-oh something’s wrong we were running from police, even though they hadn’t identified themselves as police but since we were running then they chased us and we went and got into our little Comet and started driving away from there as fast as we could go scared to death not knowing what was happening and next thing you know a helicopter came down with a loud speaker and cars coming from all directions and they were saying “Stop this car!” and the helicopter landed right in front of us, it was better than the movies and we were scared to death.

They didn’t know why they had stopped us because we were running and as they were doing a check on the car, on the licence of the car, the car had come back stolen and they put us in jail and we asked what the chargers were and he said “Stolen automobile” and I said what charges for TI? and they said, “Stolen credit card” – “petroleum credit card”.

Because the girl that had offered us the credit card did not know that her husband reported his card stolen to prevent anybody from using them so anyhow we were thrown into the Brownsville jail. I mean the Brownsville jail was like the livin end. Might was well been in Mexican jail. I’m not talking about any prejudice against Mexicans I’m just talking about these being hard jails. There wasn’t English spoken we were thrown in — well at least I was thrown into a small room half the size of this with 40 criminals that couldn’t speak English with double bunks you know you couldn’t crawl between them with one shower in the middle of the room and that was it. TI was a little luckier because the female ward wasn’t that full. It was funny because there was a girl in there that everyone thought was a looney tunes but the minute TI went in she said “Boy, you’ve got antennas!” (class laughs) “I’ve never seen anybody with antennas before”.

When TI and I were at Know Place and doing the things we were doing we had gone through the care to get scarab rings that meant something to us because while we were awakening we were studying Egyptology and all these things and when I went in the jail I didn’t realize I had it on and here’s this fellah in the cell that immediately saw it and immediately wanted it. And he offers to protect me if I gave him that ring, which I very quickly did. (class laughs) He was in for murder he had – there were several in the cell that were in for murder and there were some real looney tunes in the cell as well. Plus they would shoot up at night until they were just out of their minds and the behavior in the middle of the night was just unbelievable and I was glad I had some protection because this guy would go around fanning his hands with razor blades to keep anybody away from me and away from him. I had given him that gold scarab ring and so he was protecting me. I hated to give up that ring and I really really hated to give up that ring but I got protection.

Well the car rental company immediately dropped charges had no problem when it was reported to them that the car had been found but the district attorneys office in St. Louis where the car was rented decided that he was going to make some political points so he said he was going to follow through on the crime so I was extradited to St. Louis.

TI was moved to a jail in Houston and TI spent all together 30 days in jail and the charges were dropped on the credit card because the girl had had her husband drop the chargers so there’s no record on TI’s case but I had a little public defender in my case that kept saying: listen this is a Mickey mouse case, nothing to it. I’ll take care of it. And I kept staying and waiting and in the meantime while I was trying to get out of jail she was working as a nurse in the hospital trying to pay a lawyer to try to help me get out of jail and finally the public defender said if you would just plead guilty there would be no question about it because you would just get time served because your case is taking so long to get on the docket. I didn’t even bother thinking of the ramifications of pleading guilty, I was interested in getting out. So I plead guilty. And that’s what got me in the courtroom to finally get my case on the docket.

Anyhow, I used to read these Dell horoscope magazines in jail and I picked February 13th. On February the 7th I read the 13th – whatever it said for the horoscope for this vehicle and I said that’s the day I was going to see the judge that was the day I went to see the judge and I was released that day from the court and got a sentence of 4 months and I’d already served 6, so like I’ve said, they owe me two.

But I am a convicted felon in the eyes of the law. Now, you could say oh isn’t that awful – this vehicle’s family members visited that little Brownsville jail and they could not believe that I had lost my sanity and let this woman that we call TI lead me into whatever it was, Satanism, you know, bewitched, under her spell. And of course her friends and family thought the same of me. I watched the ones who had saw this vehicle as the shining star of the family you know the one who got more education, did all these things that they always wanted someone they could be proud of who ended up going nutty.

The point I’m making here is that the biggest favor the Next Level could do in having us move at an accelerated place was to have events occur in a way that our credibility was lost in a hurry. We were so naive that we would write long letters about what we were receiving to individuals that we still thought were individually our friends in the world. Trying to tell them about what was true, and that ended their relationship with us because we were then looney tunes in everybody’s eyes.

A strange thing happened. The mother of TI’s vehicle never once turned against us. (DO chokes up some) And that was extraordinary. She didn’t understand but she trusted us – she never once even said we even know that she never even said anything off color to any of the relatives in TI’s family. Her position was I don’t understand what’s going on but I trust they believe what they’re doing. Even though she had seen her daughter leave her husband and her children in a matter of months – life turned in a completely other direction. I feel that was remarkable, very special that she was capable of doing that.

Now I’m not saying that it’s necessarily true that every individual who wants to move in an accelerated pace in their overcoming of your worldliness has to lose all credibility in the world but it did us a great favor – I mean we both left all kinds of debts behind and left the vehicles loved ones behind – we ended up jailbirds I mean everything was blackened as far as our credibility was concerned which really helped because all we had was this pursuit and each other doing this pursuit.

So when you read what Jesus said to his disciples about you’ll be hated by all men and they’ll say all manner of evil falsely against you for my sake, that’s true, that’s true, and I know you all have experienced that. If you haven’t you may yet have it to experience. Some of you have experienced it more than once, a number of times. Well, I felt that it was important that you really understand that I felt the Next Level did us a favor to give us an accelerated ruination of credibility in the human world.

Also in the night I felt that TI was saying that I didn’t quite carry the analogy that we were talking about as far as using the little analogy of horses and how man goes out to find horses and the thought that was given to me that if you would even think of the vehicles that you’re occupying in that same analogy.

Think of these as those horses that got picked. And that you are not the horse, you’re the rider. And you have to break the horse. You have to break the horse. I don’t know if you’ve ever broken a horse, this vehicle has broken horses and I imagine some of you have broken horses but when you break a horse it means that the horse resists – it doesn’t  want to give up its wildness didn’t want to be controlled it does not want to do what the rider on it is telling it to do. It wants to throw the rider off but the rider stays on until the horse quits fighting and says you’re going to do what I tell you to do and nothing else. Some horses can’t be broken. Either that or the riders aren’t persistent enough in breaking it.

Now as I said to you that I don’t believe the Next Level ever put a deposit in a vehicle that was incapable of being broken by a strong willed driver or rider. And the vehicle that you’re wearing and it’s programming – it’s genetic programing it’s educational programing it’s parentage all of its programing is part of the package that has to be broken. Listen you are occupying a living animal that has responses that even shock you at times the way it responds. I’ve experienced that many times. I would think that all of you would realize that your vehicle has responded at times that would shock your mind. What you want to work toward is not my seeing a vehicle that the rider is trying to get a hold of but you want to see how fast, you have so much control of that, that when I look at that vehicle I see the Rider and not the horse. Because the rider has so much control of the horse that it’s the rider that then is projecting. The horse isn’t saying: ‘I’m sleepy, I’m hungry, I’m tired of listening to this or that or I don’t agree with that or what’s he doing that for?, what’s she doing that for? All these crazy things that are emanations of this animal that you’re wearing. You think I’m talking theory now but you have to come in and take over that vehicle.

Even if you — if you the mind, now wait a minute. Where is that mind? That mind that’s filling that soul is Next Level mind therefore it is not perishable mind – it’s days are not numbered it experiences no pain it has no handicaps that Mind is free it has no age at all it has no limitations it’s only the house that has limitations. So when the Mind is running the house its no different – then suddenly just a piece of machinery suddenly playing out if the machinery played out.

You follow what I’m saying? But you’re still – you have not and this is in varying degrees from individual to individual you have not identified with the amount of Mind that is now in your soul that has been given to you from the Next Level – that Mind has to increase so fast that you identify only with that Mind. Not the vehicle not with the old mind not the mind of the creature you are wearing. That creature has a mind of its own just like the horse in the corral has a mind of it’s own and you’ve got to put it in its place you’ve got to train it so that the slightest hand on those reigns makes the horse go this way and he’s just waiting for that signal from you as to whether he’s to back up, go left right, forward or which kind of canter it is exactly so that you’re so sensitive – he is getting his joy manifesting your desires – that vehicle you are wearing can even find a type of pride in serving you if you get control enough of that vehicle you’re wearing.

It can even be pleased it can become refined for the first time it can begin to act more like the Mind, within limits. You have to at least have enough control that the vehicle never does any behavior both mental or physical that can make a fool of you or pitch you on the ground or run you into the fence or whatever else it might do and that not making a fool of you has to be around the clock it can’t just be when you’re in meetings or when you’re with classmates or other times it has its ways and suddenly you wake up and say ugh I let the vehicle have its way, I’m not going to let that happen again and then it does it again and you say oh I let the vehicle have its way. That’s not breaking the horse. That’s the mind taking over. You have to experience enough abstinence of animal behavior in order to receive enough of that Next Level Mind for that Mind to begin to take over. Without experiencing enough abstinence of human thinking and behavior you’re not opening the door for that mind to begin to take over. It’s that same analogy we used last night that the higher octane that is Next Level Mind cannot come in if there’s still lower octane mind in there or if it begins to creep back in or you permit it to come back in, it will go right out – you have to work twice as hard to get it back in because it’s not convinced you want it in because you just made a fool of yourself and made a liar of your intentions.

Now we all go through periods of difficulty in breaking the horse. But the Next Level is like the Marine Corp it just wants a few good men and that means strong men, and I’m not talking male I’m talking individuals we don’t get service in the Next Level by loving the Next Level and thinking this is just a real sweet trip. It’s hard work there is no task on this planet to compare to the work that it takes to keep your head free of doubt and judgment and human thoughts and human behavior or all the things that will stand in your way. Don’t forget TI still sets you up in order to develop your strength because the Next Level wants a few good servants they don’t need masses. They don’t need any of us. They don’t need me. I need Them. Without Them I am nothing but TI does not need me, TI could drop me like that because TI’s allegiance is to TI’s Older Members.

*** end of tape – it continues onto tape two of this meeting ***

TI and DO transcript #53 – Lessons on Following Instructions as a Member of the Next Level Would

May 12, 2019
Tape Log: 053 – 03/31/83 – OOC task-two extremes. Be alert & observant. Must learn the art of getting along with everyone. Misapplication of instruction-flowers. Interaction with Links =lessons-just say, “I did it wrong”. 45 min.

(Transcribed by Nisha and edited by Sawyer (Swy) Classroom full name: Swyody)

(Swy note: This appears to have been recorded at the Houston “retreat”. TI and DO lived in Houston briefly, their vehicles home before they awakened upon meeting there. When they moved there DO grew a beard so he wouldn’t be so noticeable by former friends and family of his vehicle. They leased a type of townhouse for students to come there to visit while the rest of the class was in Austin.)

Tape starts:

DO: Often when Links is talking to someone about instructions we might start off saying one thing like go to such and such a place to get carrots and then the more we talk in the conversation because of information we later find out we would change that to: don’t go to such and such a place and get carrots, go someplace else. Repeatedly, we find that the students are hearing portions of what we say and not hearing other portions. In other words, at the point of our making a change, they remember what we said first before we made the change more that they remember the change, which means — sounds like they’re thinking about something we said while we’re saying something else instead of listening to everything we say as we say it.

Don’t let your computers work on something we’ve just said while we’re still trying to say something else. You could be helpful by — like when TI brought up the cornbread thing of not letting the batter sit too long that just overrode everything and translated to: We’ll make up all the cornbread and let everybody be served cold cornbread which wasn’t the intent at all, it was a misapplication of instructions which is part of what we’re going to talk about. We’ve got to lick, dismiss misapplication of instructions.

TI: Let me give another example because I think ones back at the craft – The last crew that was up here and we noticed that Alxody was coming up with this group we said that Alxody was a satellite 3 person coming up and we said Alxody could not come up as a satellite 3 person but that didn’t mean they would bump Alxody and put somebody else in so that we would have a satellite 3 person. It meant that it was such perfectly okay for Alxody to come up but he could not be as a Satellite 3 person the way they mentioned it to us. Do yawl remember that?

And by the time they got back to the class they interpreted it that Alxody couldn’t come on this retreat group because he couldn’t be a Satellite 3 person, which there are times when there are no Satellite 3 people coming anymore in the retreat group – is that right – so why would you bump Alxody because of what we’re saying – to think the reason for that wasn’t because there was anything wrong with Alxody. It’s because he’s not able to function as a  Satellite 3 person without a check partner and he doesn’t have a check partner.

DO: Well we said we always try to make it if we can so a Satellite 3 person can be in a retreat crew going to retreat. And we said yes that’s fine but you don’t do it at the expense of having to get them out of the order of which they should be going. You follow what we’re saying? But we couldn’t count the number of times that our instructions have been twisted and you want to be aware of how your vehicles twist instructions and you want to exert special effort to find out if you’re twisting instructions.

Let’s take the — I feel like Swyody has innocently twisted instructions or I’m not understanding everything. Like this morning, I asked him how his new task was going and he said: Well not exactly like the other two times I was over there, because the dishwasher didn’t show up and the chef was having to pitch in and wash dishes and they had to bring in somebody from someplace else and I said: Well, did you offer to help with the dishwashing? and he said ‘No I didn’t’. And I suspect, though I may be wrong that he was maybe thinking he shouldn’t from what we said about washing dishes. Is that correct, Swyody?

Swyody: (affirms)

DO: Well see that’s not right. Links have never indicated that you all — when we said we didn’t want you going out and taking jobs washing dishes – we didn’t want people taking advantage of you. But did that mean that when a crew is shorthanded and everybody is having to pitch in that we would have one of our students be the one not to pitch in and do things like scrub pots and pans or even scrub the floor or any other thing that had to happen as an exception.

And we said as it turns out – well he told me from the beginning that they had to do this and then my brain just short circuited because I thought then why did you apply for the job? Because if you know we don’t want you doing pots and pans regularly – when people wouldn’t show up. In other words, you can’t go and say: ‘I’d like this job very much and I’m a dessert person and ah well I’m just making this up’ but you can’t go and say ‘I’ll do this and this and this but I don’t wash windows, I don’t do pots and pans I’m not going to let you step on me – I’m not going to let you take advantage of me.’ It means your not understanding what Links was talking about in the beginning – because what Links is talking about in the beginning is that you go out and be the best employee that you can be. We don’t want you to apply for menial labor tasks but that didn’t mean that when in an emergency situation that you wouldn’t pitch in and be apart of a crew that needed to do anything that needed to happen. Now if it turned out that emergency situations were more ordinary than extraordinary and if you were washing pots and pans more than you were doing anything else then you would say look that’s not what you took the job for, let’s see if you can get another one. But we, this is another example of we have seen you go to one extreme to the other, we have seen people who’d have let people step all over them instead of sticking to your guns like if you took a car to be repaired and the service man just said oh well I don’t think that right we need so and so. Stick to your guns and tell them what Links told you it needs – this is what we told you needs to be done.

The extreme of that is a time or two people have done it in such a way that it irritated the service manager and made it sound like they were mad or they were being arrogant or they were being so impossible and at that point don’t you know that humans back down? And they’re not going to service you. They’re not going to be helpful to you if you go in and set them off with: Well listen to me!, this is the way I want it done and that’s it. You’ve got to stick to your guns diplomatically. You’ve got to do it in away that they appreciate the fact that you’re sticking to your guns. You don’t start bumping noses with them or bucking with them unless it’s a situation where you have no choice. You’ve tried your diplomatic effort, you’ve tried to cooperate with them, you’ve tried to do everything in a way that you could stick to your guns and still have a smooth outcome and it didn’t work. If it didn’t work then your kind of at your wits end – you would either have to buck with them or throw up your hands and call for help. But you’ve got to – tell us what the score is Swyody so we can understand it better like what did you mean when you said ‘He told me from the offset that this happens’ frequently?

Swyody: Well he said he had a hard time getting help…

DO: Well then why didn’t you tell us that? Why didn’t you let us know that when you started applying for the job that here’s a position where the chef has told us that frequently people won’t show up and he ends up washing the pots. I wouldn’t be able to work with a chef who was washing the pots and pans when I was making desserts.

TI: What would you do when he was washing pots and pans?

Swyody: I was making a soup he asked me to make.

DO: Okay, well that’s okay if he says like if I offer to wash the pots and pans and he says no I want you to make the soup I’ll fill in here. Great. But I would feel obligated to offer to the chef to wash their pots and pans and I would want to and that’s why I asked you did you offer to wash them. Did you offer to wash them?

Swyody: No.

DO: See this is where it goes wrong because to me if you’re under the chef and he’s having to do something like that you’d want to give the feeling of one who is cooperative and wants to be helpful. We feel like Swyody had bad luck a time or two with tasks and it may be because he’s misapplying instructions we’ve given him because he’s standing up for his guns so they think ‘Good night. Who do you think you are? You ought to be having office in Washington instead of here in a kitchen.’, You see what I’m saying? Because that would be a a misapplication of instructions when we say don’t let people walk over you that doesn’t mean you walk in with your nose in the air and lay down the guidelines of what you’ll do in this task. What you do is go and find out what the task requires and if it isn’t according to guidelines you go elsewhere looking for a job.

TI: What you have to do when you have an out of craft task, it’s really about the feeler and all of you have to develop the feeler. You have to learn to feel what it’s like – a good employee doesn’t ever tell an employer I won’t do something. We’re not asking any of you to tell an employer that I don’t do something or imply that I won’t do it – so of course that’s within the job task. I’m not talking about your going to rob a bank or something because I’m certain that’s within the job task. I’m not talking about their wanting you to go rob the bank or something. Because you could throw that back us later and say well they asked us to go do this or to go rob that bank or to go do everything they asked us to do. Believe it or not you all are capable of going to that extreme.

DO: And if you question the rightness of it get a note off to Sat 3 and let them get it off to Links so that we can see what happening and like Dstody said he didn’t feel right about his boss asking him to take drinks into the locker room to men who – are in the sauna when men order drinks when men said I’ll give you 10 dollars or whatever it was to go get me a beer and bring it into the sauna and he didn’t feel right about that. TI and I didn’t see anything wrong in his task why shouldn’t he do it? But the point is he refused and it almost he refused a number of things that almost got his job in hot water – because they were thinking that he had a little too many areas that he wanted his job to only be these things and not do those things so what you do is, like TI said, try to be sensitive with your feeler, try to discover what the task is before you take it and try to feel – does it feel right? Is the things I’m going to be doing do I think they’re in the guidelines of what Links intends for us to be willing to do and if the answer to that is yes then take the task – then if it turns out later that it’s expanded into areas you begin to question bring it up and let us help you with it before you cut your nose off before you make a situation where they begin to dislike you and they can dislike you on the grounds that you think you’re doing what you think Links would have you do.

We wouldn’t have you in a task where they dislike you unless they’re impossible or if they dislike you because you won’t join in as they snort cocaine or whatever it is that they’re doing – if there are things like that you know we would have you immediately try get something else. But we think you’re more capable of knowing what our intentions are then just grabbing on to little pieces of things that we say and then letting them over a short period of time distort and create an impossible circumstance for yourself.

TI: The Mind just has to push through to understand better – it’s like the brain is blocking you from what we’re saying and you have to exert the effort to understand what we’re saying. You may think you know because you think TI and Do have said this over and over again and I know exactly what they’re going to say and it turns out that you don’t know what we’re staying.

DO: That’s right, your vehicle is making it sound like you’re hearing a repeat.

TI: It’s getting to where I’m almost afraid to say something thinking it will be translated into something else. And I think how can I say something where they can understand what I’m saying? And even right now I wonder, of course we have it on tape but I still wonder if it’s going to translate into your brain – well you have got to push through and understand what we’re saying. The reason we’re putting this on tape is because if there are others like at the craft who have out of craft tasks and they are having the same kinds of misunderstanding that Swyody has had then we hope that this will help correct.

When you are on an out of craft task or in the craft you should be mentally alert, someone said that I’ve watched one individual in this class do things that looks like it’s just mechanical like there’s no mind really operating in that vehicle at that time and it disturbed me because I feel like that individual can be caught up in a trap that it would just slip into a nothingness, a despondency.

DO: a passiveness.

TI: a passiveness so much so that it can cause you trouble and you have never seen us walk around with a mechanical air about us. We are your examples you have to be mentally alert you’ve got to be observant you’ve got to listen carefully. When you all talk to us, we listen to you as carefully as we can unless we have a distraction and then if we have a distraction because of something one of the others TI and Do might be saying to  – to openly take what we’re listening to you and go through one of us then we’ll go back and say sorry we missed what you were saying and can you tell us again. We’re teaching you all how to listen to Older Members. You all can’t do that – only Older Members can do it, like your teachers. Actually it isn’t right for us to do it – but when there are two Older Members working together in a class circumstance sometimes it does happen but it doesn’t mean that you all can do that to Older Members – it’s like if we’re taking to you on the caller and somebody says something to you, you come back and say I’m sorry, so and so was telling me something and I didn’t hear what you were saying.

DO: (laughs) that happens a lot.

TI: Now that has happened to us many, many times and that should not happen any more than if we were standing here talking to you and all the activity around the room you started watching what Dncody and Lvvody were doing while they’re talking to Cddody. Before you know it I could ask you what was Dncody and Lvvody doing and you could tell us every little action that they were doing and then we’ll say what was I telling you and you wouldn’t even know what we were talking about. Can you understand that?

DO: You’re not capable of doing both you’re not capable of listening carefully and doing other things, you may think you are.

TI: That means you’re more interested in Dncody and Lvvody then what we’re saying so then why should we exert the effort to tell you anything? So you’ve got to understand this because it’s extremely important that you get your minds into your vehicles. When you walk, you walk as a member of the Next Level, when you talk you talk as a Member of the Next Level. You do not just walk mechanically, pick up things and look at them and put them down and try on a jacket – without any expression on your face without anything like you look like a puppet! A robot or something.

When you’re in an out of craft tasks you are alert and you know what you’re tasks are and you participate in everything as though you enjoy it. When you leave the class, you come back, end of – leave your task leave that job at your place where you work you come back here and you work in the craft as though you like it and you are alert, you know what is going on you are interested in what’s going on you’ve got to push through it and the vehicle will not do it automatically, it was not trained to do that. Your mind has to do it. And as soon as you learn that’s the better you will learn and we will be able to communicate with you. If you don’t do it we’re not going to be able to communicate with you. We have reached this place before and we felt like we just can’t communicate with you and then you all exert the effort and we’re able to do it, then we get to another spot where we can communicate which means it’s just practice that grows – there’s nothing wrong with any of you it’s that you have to put it into action, which will not happen on its own.

DO: Let me use this example with Cddody again because it’s there were little ramifications that could have come into his mind at one point that since they weren’t resolved I don’t think his brain computed. Let’s go back over the conversation Cddody was talking to me last night about, we’re going to take the car into the shop and at first we had said that they would they get it there somewhere between 7:30 and 9:00 and then little later in the conversation I said no why don’t you just get up and get to the top of the bath slot and consume and get off as quickly as you can and at that point TI heard me say that and TI then said (and of course Cddody couldn’t hear) but TI had said no let’s get him there at 7:30 then I had said no let’s get there at 7:30 which Cddody repeated to me ‘get there at 7:30’ but I didn’t say that means you might have to alter your up time and so forth and so on so it didn’t compute so what computed was to get there as close to 7:30 as they could – getting up on time and consuming as soon as they could and they got off at 7:50, I mean got down there at 7:50 which in his mind, was correct instruction.

The point I’m making is only one time did I say no let’s get there at 7:30 and what it didn’t make a strong enough impression in the computer. To think about oh well that means what we said a few minutes ago about getting at the top of the bath slot and consuming that means that won’t work so would you have us get up earlier if necessary to get there at 7:30 because if he had computed that and asked that question the answer would have been well yes of course if you can’t – in other words we don’t feel like we have to know what you can do what you have to do in order to get there at 7:30 you see what I’m saying. I feel like if you can’t get up at 6.30, consume and get off in order to be there at 7:30 then you have to alter in order to get there at 7:30 and if you feel like Links hasn’t Ok’d your getting up early then you’ve got to come back and say I don’t think we can get up on time and get there at 7:30 so that we can have a chance to say well then get up early if necessary. Well, when it got to be after 7 and you all hadn’t left I couldn’t imagine what had happened but this is just a little example how one sentence said no let’s get there at 7:30 and that there were dozens of other sentences that hadn’t been that explicit. You see what we’re saying? So the brain didn’t ‘Uh-oh’ grab hold of that one and say everything we previously talked about has now been altered and this means that we’re going to get there at 7:30 and this happens a lot – not just with Cddody it happens with others almost without exception. Frequently it’s the key thing we say in the whole conversation that gets lost.

TI: Well, it’s like the cornbread incident when the key thing was to plan your strategy so you would have hot cornbread for both crews and none of you had it.

DO: I want to know from Swyody, see I’m afraid that you got the picture that you were to present yourself in a way that you wouldn’t do tasks of that nature or I don’t understand why you wouldn’t have said to your chef last night; Goodness, can I help you out of this bind?’ and then give him the option to say; Nope, this is what I have to live with because people don’t like to be out here and you go ahead and do your soup. But to me, if I had hired someone in a lesser position than my own position and they didn’t offer to do a more menial task than their task when I was having to do it I would wonder what kind of spirit they were, what kind of cooperative nature they had. You see what I’m saying? Did that not cross your mind?

Swyody: (unintelligible)

DO: Well it would’ve been my first thought that he would think poorly of me if I didn’t offer to do that his having to do it. Particularly when I’m new and I’m wanting to make a good impression. You see what I’m saying?

Swyody: Well, I know he gave me the task of making the soup.

DO: well sure.

Swyody: so I guess…

DO: Well see I don’t know the whole picture but in trying to piece together the parts I got from you and it might be that the way he was giving you instructions might have made it very clear to you that he wanted to do that and want you to go ahead doing what you’re doing – if he did then I could understand it. I don’t know the whole picture, but I do know that you should give an impression with your employer and that nothing is beneath you even though you didn’t take the job to do dishes and you don’t want to do something like that on a regular basis hopefully because I would rather find another job if I ended up doing that all the time. It’s like with Anyody we didn’t know she was doing pots and pans on a regular basis we thought that she asked to do it on rare exceptions, next thing we knew it was on a regular basis and her regular task was pot’s and pans and we immediately said Anyody that’s taboo.

TI: That’s when you step in and said let us know about it. But once in a while it doesn’t hurt.

DO: It’s the awkwardness you all have to get passed. Swyody had an awkwardness over his address and it’s like he got caught in a couple of stories about giving wrong street numbers that didn’t exist and you’ve got to be sharper than that and more comfortable with your strategy. You’ve got to plan it that you can’t be in a circumstance like that. If I’m going to use a street number I’ve got to know that street — I’m certainly not going to give it 10,300 if I don’t know if that streets even 6 blocks long. I’m automatically going down in the first few hundreds if I’m not familiar with that street I would automatically have to think that way and you all are capable of thinking that way you’re just not exerting the effort and then you get caught twice! Twice he got caught by the same person in personnel about information that had no truth to it and part of thinking was he as nervous about the new task he was a little insecure about the two bad experiences he has recently had and deflating his ego to an extent but you have got to not let people deflate your confidence.

The only reason your confidence has any reason to be deflated is if you’re trying to do a task the way Links would have you do it and the more you try it you don’t seem to be accomplishing anything then I would have my confidence would be threatened a little bit then I would have to work harder to get it restored. But something that a human could do to me like Tim did to you that couldn’t threaten my confidence at all or make me deflated but if I had an experience like Swyody did with Tim I would wonder now wait a minute they could be –  I don’t know why but no matter what kind of impossible person Tim seemed to be, something must be wrong with me that I wasn’t capable of getting along with him – why I couldn’t go in, do a good task and be liked. I might say things that sound a little wrong, I may present myself in a way that doesn’t seem likeable something about me has caused others to dislike me but how can I change that? And all of you need to examine that kind of thing when you’re in a task in craft or out of craft when you find yourself in a predicament where others find it difficult to cooperate with you and examine yourself and wonder what it is that makes it that way.

TI: It’s very difficult to work with — when you’re a Member of the Next Level to work with humans when there’s conflict so it’s always better to try to get rid of conflict by examining yourself and also observing that individual to see how you can get along with that person well if it’s impossible to get along with that individual then you’ll find out eventually but you can be – it’s just like working with each other none of you should be so impossible that I don’t like the work with so and so. I don’t like to work with him or her because of such and such that’s all garbage, that’s all human garbage and you all should know everybody’s likes and dislikes and you shouldn’t pay any bit attention so that could affect you because there is not a single person here that could do any harm to you.

DO: There are some in your class who — there are a number of people who have a difficulty getting along with them. Okay, follow my little formula here there’s some individuals in your class because of some characteristics they still have not conquered a number of people find it difficult to get along with them. But there are others in your class that can get along with those individuals and have mastered how not to let those characteristics of which they’re trying to conquer to disturb them in the least. And they can get maximum performance in cooperation with those individuals that others find it impossible to get along with so where’s the trouble? With the person who’s impossible or the person who can’t get along with them?

The person that’s difficult he’s got a lot to work on but the person who can’t get along with them has to work on just as much because he hasn’t learned to get along with. He hasn’t mastered anything he’s only good with people who are easy to get along with you see what we’re saying? So he has to learn to get along with people who require effort to get along with and there’s no difference when some of your classmates are working on certain kinks in their personality that are difficult then areas that you are working on that are less obvious and none of you are free of serious areas that need work. Therefore there’s no justification for not learning the art of getting along with anyone. Okay, are we through? Tllody?

Tllody: I hope this is appropriate… (unintelligible)

TI: They don’t serve us, we serve our own.

Tllody: continues…

DO: They clean our plates sometimes but you know why they clean our plates and don’t find sauce and spaghetti on our plates? Because we scrape our own plates.

TI: The sauce is okay, the meat we’re not encouraging you to eat.

DO: Either one is an extreme. If I try to eat my spaghetti so that all the sauce and meat is left off I’m going to an extreme but if I eat my spaghetti and clean up the sauce and meat that on my plate I’m going to another extreme we say that the sauce and meat that goes with your spaghetti can’t hurt you but you shouldn’t have so much sauce on there that’s there’s a lot of concentrated sauce and meat that you would follow that experiment up with.

TI: But we don’t eat much of the meat, we eat very little of the meat.

DO: That’s right now the meat we consider more flavoring for the spaghetti and we consume only what little meat might stick to the spaghetti if as we consume it as we roll it up into little baseballs that doesn’t mean we try on every little baseball to be sure that every little bit of the meat is off of it, that’s an extreme. But we don’t heat that the concentrated sauce and meat is good for you enough that you should clean up what’s left on your plate and that it you should try not have no much sauce with it that there’s puddle of it left after you ate your spaghetti.

TI: That’s right, you shouldn’t have that much sauce that you would have to clean up your plate with a spoon and this is not what we are encouraging you to do.

Tllody (explaining how his vehicle likes the meat):

TI: If your vehicle likes it, it’s going to find a way if you all could learn your vehicle and you can bank on it doing exactly what it likes to do when it comes to food in other words that sounds when somebody asks a question about consuming the thought comes in my mind entirely different is recorded in my brain as I receive it because it’s saying I like this exactly what I want to hear I know it, it’s just like if you all could realize that it’s…

DO: My brain, I mean my mind reacts just the opposite and dislikes what my vehicle has just indicated to me what it likes so much. So much that I tend to then go the other way and be more turned off then would be normal if had I hadn’t seen a prejudice from my vehicle in favor of it.

TI: In favor of it.

DO: you see what I’m saying?

Tllody: In a sense that’s the key right there, that your vehicle has…

TI: Just like ice cream, if your vehicle looks forward to the ice cream then your mind order step in immediately and say ‘ice cream isn’t that good’

DO: It isn’t.

TI: Sure

DO: Cause your mind doesn’t care if it gets ice cream it doesn’t have a means of enjoying it.

TI: It doesn’t say ‘oh boy that tastes good’, that’s your vehicle talking. And your mind should immediately realize the symptoms that your vehicle is looking forward to the cake and you don’t have to eat a piece of cake and if I was having that kind of trouble I wouldn’t touch a piece of cake.

DO: Your mind doesn’t feed the vehicle like the human feeds the horse sugar to keep the horse happy – I’m going to give it something that isn’t good for it just to keep it happy. The mind considers that it has the ability to control the vehicle and keep it operating and functioning well without giving into it. Without doing all the little things to satisfy it that doesn’t mean that it goes to the other extreme and is difficult with the vehicle it tries to do it without giving into it and without trying too be to harsh on it. Don’t go out of balance to be too harsh on the vehicle and to give into it, way out the balance. The proper way when you have the vehicle in control is to get the performance from the vehicle that you want without any back talk one way or the other – we just want to get the performance out of it therefore you know it requires X amount of nutrition and consuming but it doesn’t require X amount of sugar or X amount of this – any of the things that the vehicle has a particular yen for so it doesn’t give in to those but neither does it go to the other extreme. It’s like when we told you the big test is can I gave a little something once in a while without making it a big ‘to-do’ can I learn to ignore it. Like if I really like ice cream I’ll skip some of my ice cream opportunities and when I have my ice cream I’ll learn not even look forward to it. It’s just some other ingredient that I’m having.

TI: Just like getting gas at the service station. Cars don’t look forward getting unleaded or just plain old regular – they just get it because they’re running out of gas and this is how you should look at food, food is just gas that you’re putting into your vehicles.

DO: Talking about gas for a moment, I think that still one of the biggest problems we have with vehicles that have gas problems is not chewing enough – the more you chew and pulverize that food the less it creates fermentation in your digestive system and the more the natural enzymes break it down and prevent gas, so one of the main things you can do and I have to keep my own vehicle disciplined in the area of chewing particularly when I only have one little tiny spot to chew on, I get awful tired of shoveling everything to that one little spot and chomping for so long.

TI: have to use the front teeth.

This doesn’t apply to just likes and dislikes in regards to food it’s likes and dislikes to anything like let’s use the TV for instance one individual while he was here on at retreat wanted to change the time of consuming so that he could watch the news. That’s pretty bad, I think it happened in Blackhawk it hasn’t happened recently but when you have thoughts like that that means you’re hooked on television because we have not given you an assignment to watch the news. Now if we say we don’t want you to miss a single news item on television no matter what, don’t give us any excuses and everything watched on television in regards to news then you would have to alter your schedule to watch the news but the news is optional and we know things are happening out there and they’re going to happen whether we watch TV or not. And when the time comes and it’s time for the news and you’re free of what you’re supposed to be doing then it’s okay to watch it but the world doesn’t stop just so you can see the news you don’t plan your schedule so that you can see the news – if you’re through with everything in the task, in the craft and the news is on and you feel like you feel like you can sit down and do it then it’s okay to do it but otherwise it isn’t imperative to see it.

TI and DO Audio Transcript 005 – Program for Perfect Health by Meditation to Eliminate Stress

April 13, 2019
Tape Log entry: 005 07/20/82 Guilt-Conflict-Stress =vehicle breakdown. Program for health-eliminate stress. 15min.
(Rkkody wrote in the Tape Log that The Classroom designed the Tape Log)
(005A-0-1.RM – Originally transcribed by New Believer in TI and DO – Nisha).
(Rkkody digitized the original audio tape into .RM files (some have the .OGG formatted files that New Believer in Ti and Do, Peter improved the sound of, from the .RM files).
(Edited on 4-13-2019 by Sawyer (Swy) – Classroom name: Swyody – for expediency I didn’t always re-listen to the tapes, so just corrected the obvious parts that didn’t change anything, except where noted by additional (? and/or comments) that sometimes would warrant re-listening to them.)
(Sawyer did re-listen to this tape and made some minor corrections)
DO (talking in a very slow soft voice): Greetings to you from Ti and Do. We respect each of you, for you are members of the Next Level. We have some information that we want to try make clear. I think probably for the first time in this incarnation We are fairly thoroughly understanding of the vehicles “breakdown” and “healing” process, and what causes disease and problems with the vehicle and also how these problems can be overcome.
I’m going to start off by saying, the major cause of vehicular breakdown is stress and stress from conflict. Lets say that as a child you decided to– or lets say that one example of conflict could be guilt carried over from childhood.
For example, lung cancer or difficulties with the lungs, which we blame tobacco for is rightfully blamed on a deep-seeded guilt lets say an individual might have for acting out and smoking a cigarette behind a barn or somewhere when he knew that his parents were opposed to it, but the guilt stayed there and set up the circumstance so that the tobacco could really do its number on causing destructive cells to begin to work and accumulate. Now, let’s say tobacco has been stopped some years later doesn’t necessarily mean that deep seeded guilt had not been surfaced and eradicated. Now, this is just an example, I’ll give you a couple of examples of things that require that you be pretty above responding as humans:
Let’s say that a female in her adolescence was very self conscious about the size of her breasts. Either they were too big and she was self conscious about them or they weren’t as big as she wanted them to be when she was very much into that level of thinking, that being conflict there with the vehicle not being what the person wanted it to be, could cause a deep seeded destructive tendency in the cells of that area of the body. Which is of course cause for many cases of beast cancer or difficulties with malignant or non-malignant growths or abnormalities caused in that area of the body.
Let’s say the instance to that of early sex. While something that you wanted to do, but there was also that fear and a guilt, a deep seeded guilt because you might have felt that you were doing it before you should be doing it and it was let’s say you were too young if you snuck around to do it and this caused such things as prostate or vaginal or testicle or cancers or growths, things that occurred because of a deep seeded conflict, mental conflict.
Let’s say that someone wanted to, wanted to not see something and the conflict there could cause difficulties with the eyes.
We want you to think really long and hard on how this natural process works when causing breakdowns in the vehicle because of your not liking certain aspects of the vehicle.
Now this can apply to since you’ve been on this endeavor if trying to become a Member of the Next Level. You also have maybe slipped into guilt or shame regarding certain areas of your body or lets say you feel that your vehicle still wants to respond in a sensuous way and rather than translating that in a higher way, you have guilt and conflict toward those parts of your vehicle.
You should have frown enough by now to look at the reproductive parts of the vehicle in a much higher way than sex. In other words those reproductive organs can assist your body by abstinence in using those organs in a higher way but you still, well if you have healthy reproductive organs those organs can produce a vitality throughout your body that can even assist you and assist in your power, your strength to overcome the poisons or disease or conflict, of difficulty with your body.
So, as you meditate think carefully that your body is perfect, not perfect in a way a human cares to see because you don’t care anymore but your body is perfect, it’s whole, there’s nothing wrong with it. It doesn’t have anything about it that you dislike, it’s a perfect creation of the Next Level and all of its systems you want to be perfect and to function perfectly even though they will be functioning differently than they functioned when you were functioning as a human.
So in your mediation as you think of your vehicle as perfect and from one end to the other realize that it is exactly as it should be and go to every part of the vehicle that might even possibly have any ailment, pain or discomfort where there might have been any deep seeded guilt or self consciousness or shame or any type of conflict say to, direct your thought to that part of the body and say: “Healthy cells–“, in my, let’s say I have difficulty in my abdomen, then I’m going to say: “Healthy cells in my abdomen, you are going to be strong and overpower any unhealthy cells, you’re healthy, white, strong, large cells that are going to just eat up and eradicate any destructive or diseased cells in that area.”
Do this many times a day, even as you go about your work, you don’t have to be in a meditative position to practice this, even though practicing it thoroughly while you are in a meditative posture can certainly be more concentrated assistance, but even as you go about your chores and you become aware of those parts of your body that might have shown some symptoms of difficulty then immediately let your thoughts very strongly go to that area and tell the strong, white, large healthy cells and all the energy in your body to direct for that moment, that healing strength, that white light, that healthy energy to those cells and overcome any weak cells that are there or any diseased cells.
Think on this until you can really understand how the process of decay has worked or disease has worked and if you understand it thoroughly then you can understand that the same is true of the reverse that now you must apply the same amount of effort toward healing those areas as you did effort applied in guilt or shame or self consciousness. And when that effort has equalized those parts of your vehicle that have tried to breakdown on you will be perfect again.
Even, let’s say, that your surroundings caused you to be very hyper or very nervous or you just couldn’t tolerate the circumstance that you were in, say in childhood or adolescence or since then, or difficulties you’ve had in overcoming your vehicle. Now, zero in on those aspects of your vehicle, whether it’s your nervous system or particular parts of your vehicle, zero in on those and soothe them, calm them, flatter them if necessary. Make them know that there is nothing wrong. The cellular structure of those nerves or of those parts of your body they are perfect and if they are not perfect, then they are quickly going to become perfect with the application of your energy directed towards them and in healing them.
This is basically the principle employed through the ages by Jesus, by any who knew the actual workings of the physical mechanism and knew how to translate the energies into higher applications instead of translating them in ways that humans might have translated them.
Thank you.

Some corrections to those who say nothing Ti and Do said came true

January 8, 2019

Here are just a handful of all the many things Ti and Do said and taught and did that showed to have come true. However it will be each person’s choice to try to grow to see them or not. With each one – in no special order, I could give a lot more examples. I will expand this as they occur to me since a few people seem to think nothing they ever said came true:
Things TI and DO said that have come true:

1) In the 1970’s Ti and Do said we would enjoy the music of the spheres while Next Level Members:

from spaceweather.com on 11/23/2018:

MUSICAL” WAVES DETECTED IN EARTH’S MAGNETIC FIELD: This week in Norway, a space weather observatory detected sine waves of exceptional purity rippling through Earth’s polar magnetic field. The waves, which persisted for hours with nearly perfect pitch, have been linked to “tearing instabilities” and explosions in Earth’s magnetic tail–not to mention bright auroras in Arctic skies. Visit today’s edition of Spaceweather.com to see the waves and to learn more about them.

2) Ti and Do developed a movie script they said was fiction based on the truth that entailed Pluto being an “earth lab” inside and having a big “whitish” louvered door for spacecrafts to go in and out.

New Horizons spacecraft has documented that Pluto has a blueish atmosphere and has a large whitish spot on it’s “top” – could that be the “door” a type of a membrane door.

3) A spacecraft did come to pick them up. They felt Hale Bopp was the “marker” for that to come true.

4) Ti and Do said they would die and resurrect.

When the media hit they said for about 3 days they felt the “mission was dead” and there was no sense going on. (See 88Update). But they stood on their feet again to continue to have meetings and then after TI left DO stood up by himself (resurrection means “to stand up again”) as the one who was incarnate in the vehicle named Jesus and saying Ti was his “heavenly Father”.

An additional way this was true is demonstrated by Revelation chapter 11 as the two witnesses being first “subdued” (overcome) (1975 on the national news their vehicles reputations were shot down talking about them a thieves) and then they then “separated by dying themselves” (Greek “apokteino auto”). Their ascension (rising up) was invisible to humans but not to “those with eyes to see”, a common expression by Jesus referring to those who recognized “them” in some way.

5) They said they were not “Jesus” because Jesus was the name of the vehicle taken over by an Older Member from the Next Level and taken through a metamorphosis to change into a new creature. They said Jesus would return as part of the 7th Closeness. (See UFO Missionaries Extraordinary). That closeness seems to have begun again, mostly as of 2017 with a final closeness yet to come but they said it was not to be a teaching time as that time has passed. For 20 years the Heaven’s Gate story diminished in the media. In fact during the 10 year anniversary there were only a few major media done on them. One was National Geographic’s – The Final Report; Heaven’s Gate.

For the next 10 years occasionally there would be a story that talked about them among the Luciferian space alien stimulated evil and abusive cults who did pressure people with controls and manipulations and murder and money mongering and blatant sexual “freedom” while Ti and Do’s group had none of that and actually a great deal of proof to the contrary.

For nearly 15 years my subscriptions to my youtube channel, 3spm grew maybe one every 6 months. Then 2017 hit when I also released my book and there were a few anniversary stories early on, like Inside Edition to where they continued the same mis/dis information campaign over again. After the anniversary I was approached by CNN/HLN to participate in a documentary. I asked the producer Alex Pressburg why they were covering the story – was it the anniversary – and he said no – it was because “it’s an interesting story”. That came out in the fall of 2017 alongside the 10 podcast series by Pineapple Street media via Stitcher I also interviewed for extensively on several occasions. The brought out new material – the letters Terrie received and the video Terrie received and with it accusations that TI was a hypocrite and that they were manipulative and controlling and that DO was insensitive to telling Terrie about Ti’s death but it became apparent that DO was following TI’s instructions (as I can show was true because DO had no reason to lie and because TI’s biggest concern on her deathbed according to DO and Lvvody and Jnnody who helped her in those last two weeks was DO’s carrying on without her. One huge aspect of DO’s carrying on was keeping the classroom hidden from any who wanted to find them and interfere with them. Hence DO didn’t tell Terrie right away because he knew that could stimulate an investigation that could land him in jail and/or split up the classroom.

There are 218 audio tapes that show how dedicated TI was to their classroom’s completion under DO. Plus TI had many opportunities to tell Terrie she was diagnosed with cancer in around 1983 while we lived in Texas and Terrie lived in Texas, but didn’t. Instead she just wrote letters – only one phone call in that time of years. Again because all that would do would be create more anxiety with Terrie and at that point especially the objective of letter contacts and subsequent visits in 1985 and 1986-7 was to “calm family anxieties”.
The claim was also made in the podcasts and by a number of other investigators that said DO became “a little psychotic” (said by x-student Frank (Andody) after Ti left but the evidence is that he continued with the classroom exactly as Ti had instigated as they were always looking for the way in which they were to leave the earth/human kingdom and how.
It’s easy to show that Ti and Do were willing to appear to be wrong to put students that were not in the classroom with all their hearts, souls, mind and strength. In other words they followed their instructions hence the establishment of a pick up by a spacecraft in 1980 or so didn’t happen but because it didn’t Jssody (joined with Alxody) left the group, while for those that had been fully committed it didn’t matter as they (I) were not banking on a spacecraft pickup to remain in the classroom. Some souls were simply further along in their overcoming of humanness process so they had many ways of filtering them out or helping them overcome their doubts.

Lots more to say about this that can be seen in my blog posts with Pineapple in the title. That’s at: https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com

6) They said spirits existed and now I’ve seen them on a number of occasions where while in the classroom it made sense to me so I believed it but I hadn’t seen anything. One can see my descriptions of those events in my blog sawyerhg.wordpress.com in Sawyer’s Story.

7) They said there would be more interest in them after they left as it wasn’t designed by the Next Level to attract large numbers as there were only a certain amount of positions students who graduates would be given to fill.

8) They said they were from the same family as Jesus was from and was a type of repeat performance – teaching the same requirements of leaving all behind to qualify. They (DO by himself post 1985 when Ti left her vehicle) stuck to that from 1975 to 1997. It seems they began to examine exiting by our own hand (as Jesus did, since he stimulated his capture and said in the book of John, “no man takes it from me” speaking about his vehicles life. Jesus also talked about how his students needed to “drink the same cup of his blood” he was given to drink knowing they would be hated and killed the same way He was hated and killed. Ti and Do were mostly hated and some wanted them dead. I witnessed at the Waldport meeting a woman in the back shouting very loudly, “you ought to be shot” when they said children could not come, explaining that children couldn’t make a choice to leave the world they hadn’t hardly experienced.

If one compares all of the red letter parts of the 4 gospels – the words attributed to Jesus with Ti and Do’s teachings one will see they are exactly the same teachings. Thus if Jesus said it – forecast it then when Ti and Do put it in more accurate to modernity and generic terms they were showing proof they were the same Older Members returned as promised and that’s why most who call themselves Christians often don’t know they are not believers in what Jesus taught, except for a few things, but according to Jesus to be his disciple one needed to abide by all he taught, not just pick and choose.

My book: “TI and Do The Father and “Jesus” Heaven’s Gate UFO Two Witnesses” provides a great deal of the evidence of how what they said as the Father and Jesus came true or is about to come true through everything Ti and Do taught and did and said would happen at the conclusion of the civilization.

9) Ti and Do said that when they left, the human kingdom would be accelerated towards recycling and that would be a further testing ground for each human. If one looks at events that have escalated in the US since the late 1990’s (the time of the Seven Thunders of Rev 10) one will see a dramatic increase in more animalistic human behaviors as each human is forced to become what they are, what they had been entertaining in their heads mostly until then but now don’t have the self control to not play out. Hence mass shootings, more earthquakes that are larger and larger, tsunami’s, volcanic eruptions, larger hurricane’s, while humans try to take responsibility for these because the Luciferians hate for people to think the Next Level exists and are behind their escalation.

10) The Hale Bopp comet was the “marker” for their exit. In other words whether there was a companion with it or not didn’t’ matter. They knew it was the event of a spacecraft picking them up they had been waiting for since 1975. NASA astronomers stated in their annual Hale Bopp symposiums after 1997 that they believed Hale Bopp was made up of TWO objects in orbit around a common center. This can also be shown to be the “sign” Jesus described as “lightning (star like – shining/strewn from east to west (along the ecliptic).
11) Ti and Do said in 1975 that spacecrafts can be all kinds of sizes and shapes and colors. Through all the many NASA and ESA and other astronomical institutions it’s been learned that comets were not “dirty snowballs”. None of them so far are round. They look like a bowling pin sometimes and have jets that seem to stimulate their rotation and propulsion.

Ultima Thule was described as reddish and looks like a snowman made up from two clearly distinct objects appearing to be fused together with some kind of “light” attachment method – docking?

X-Member of the Heaven’s Gate Cult claims Sawyer was not in touch with feelings “inner child”

December 17, 2017

X-Member of the Heaven’s Gate Cult claims Sawyer was not in touch with feelings because the amount of self-suppression and as he said “demonizing the responses of the vehicle” taught by TI and DO was designed to facilitate the “sweeping out of one’s house” of humanness that Jesus taught was part of the “Christing” overcoming process to qualify for a crew position on a Next Level Above Human environment/society spacecraft.

Episode 5 – The Tape – refers to the Pineapple Street media’s 10 episode series podcast entitled, Heaven’s Gate to be found on Stitcher and ITunes and Goggle Play that employs celebrity podcast producer Glynn Washington, known most for his NPR podcast, Snap Judgement.

Frank was known in the Heaven’s Gate group as Andody and Sawyer was known as Swyody. Frank left over a year before Sawyer did and for different reasons that he explains in Episode 6 – The Choice.

Here is Franks comment to Sawyer on the podcasts Facebook page for episode 5:

Frank: The Importance of the Inner Communication of Feelings:

I hope Sawyer won’t mind, but I found something quite poignant that he said in his November 28 reply to Episode 5 – The Tape. Note that these are my opinions.

This is what Sawyer said:

‘When Glynn would ask me, what I was feeling at the major junctions, I had nothing to say. I wasn’t ever operating on “feelings” except for feeling I was doing exactly what I wanted to be doing.’

So, what are feelings? Why was Sawyer not more in touch with his feelings?

I see Sawyer’s quote and the sentiment it expressed as a key indicator of the amount of self-suppression that occurred in the Heaven’s Gate cult. The self-suppression occurred as a result of Ti and Do demonizing the responses of the “vehicle” (the body) and the vehicle’s mind as lower, lesser, or inappropriate to what would be acceptable to a member of the Next Level (according to Ti and Do whom we looked to as knowledgeable authorities on the Next Level).

For me, since leaving the HG cult, I have come to see feelings as the language of intuition. Our inner guidance system communicates to us through feelings. I see feelings as messengers of our inner being, whether that’s our “inner child” crying out for something that it needs, or our higher selves whispering guidance to us. Either way, because feelings are inner messages, they need to be heard.

To talk about “higher self” presupposes the belief that we are more than physical flesh and blood beings, which I believe we are. I believe we are spiritual (energetic) beings having a physical experience in the third density reality we call life on planet earth.

I think most would agree that we need all the insight we can get to help navigate our lives. My opinion is that often our logical minds fall short. My experience is that all of us can receive very effective guidance from our higher selves through our intuition which, again, is communication through feelings.

In the case of feelings being messages from our inner child, if those feelings are suppressed, they will find other ways to express, indirectly through subconscious behavior or sickness, or even reflected back through others around us. Conversely, if we listen to the messages of our inner child—and I’m not saying to act out those messages but to allow ourselves to fully hear and feel those messages—we will learn valuable information about ourselves. If we allow those inner messages to express in our awareness, without suppressing, distracting ourselves, or changing the channel—even if doing so is temporarily painful—we will often free up the energy used to suppress those feelings. We will peel away a layer of inner conflict, letting deeper, more authentic parts of ourselves express and shine.

In my experience of spending 18 years in the Heaven’s Gate cult, and unraveling that experience over the last two+ decades, I am deeply aware of how much I suppressed of my authentic expression in order to fit in with what I thought at the time were the requirements of my ascension to “heaven” (the Next Level). It has taken me some time to return to allowing myself to fully listen to my feelings and all the self-awareness and intuitive guidance that they bring.

I have come to see that my most important relationship is with myself—in a self-focused way, in the same way that to help someone else put on their oxygen mask, I must first put my own oxygen mask on.

*************
Sawyer’s reply:

First off, I love all honest communication, critical of me and/or of TI and DO or not.

You pose the question, “Why was Sawyer not more in touch with his feelings?”

Maybe in the context in which I wrote about not having “feelings” to those questions, it appears I was not as in touch with my feelings as I could have been. Of that, I can not say for sure. I was not aware of not being in touch with them then or even looking back now. One of those examples was when I joined, so that can hardly be blamed on Ti and Do as by that point I hadn’t even met Ti and Do and there were no “classroom” teachings of the self-control over thoughts and/or feelings. It was 1-2 years after we joined in 1975 that I recall Ti and Do instructing the class in the need to exercise self control over even thoughts of sensuality/sexuality, when before then it wasn’t spelled out beyond physical celibacy.

The other example I gave that might have contributed to your characterization of my not being in touch with feelings on the matter, was from Ti’s exit of her vehicle. But my having no particular clear cut feeling about that, was not because of anything Ti and/or Do ever said. I don’t know why I didn’t feel more about that. I also didn’t have much feeling when I learned my vehicle’s dad died, while I was in the group. Maybe that was because I had noticed 9 months or so before that occurred in a dream where I woke up suddenly and sat up in my bunk feeling like he died of a massive heart attack. For the record I told DO about it and he asked me in person if I wanted to call him and I said, no (and I meant it. But as it turned out, DO soon scheduled calls for reasons I did not know about, a short time after that and when I called I spoke to my vehicle’s dad. He was fine, though I learned later he was diabetic but I had no details about his condition. I called again about a year later and learned he had passed from a massive heart attack. I saw my dad last during the 1987 2nd visit to families that DO scheduled after Ti left. Also for the record, I had no hidden anger against my dad. I had a relatively fine childhood though I certainly challenged them to where one time my dad gave me a hammer and wanted me to attack him with it, I think so he’d have an excuse to knock the hell out of me, for whatever reason I don’t recall for sure, but perhaps when I got caught stealing from a store or something like that.

In another history of my feelings or lack of, I can tell you that when Nancy Brown called me from the San Diego coroners office when she went to identify her son David’s body, my gut wrenched and I was truly sorry for her pain, so I know I have feelings. Actually I often have that kind of response to even news stories where people are weeping.

Another of the times I recall lacking clear feelings was in response to the groups exit. I was a little surprised as although we spoke of it a number of times, talking about things and doing things was not the same thing. We never had “suicide drills” like Jim Jones was reported to have had where his people weren’t told if the juice had poison in it or not, and it ended up not having poison, in a sense a method of conditioning his followers to do the deed. To explain my lack of emotion at that time all I can say is that I didn’t have that kind of emotional connection to my classmates. Such were not fostered in the group and I never had any doubt that they were still very much alive and would receive new dense physical vehicles on a spacecraft someplace.

Even saying that Ti and Do taught us to “suppress our feelings” to me is a distorted viewpoint. We experienced laughter, most everyday, though they taught restrained laughter. So instead of jumping up and down for joy about something (like my x=partner, now known as Sarah did when we first arrived to western Alberta, several years before we joined with Ti and Do, and saw the Canadian rocky mountains suddenly appear over a hill. Sarah jumped up and down. She was a live wire with her feelings and I thought it was cute and honest, but in the classroom, I believe that would have been inappropriate. Also Ti and Do taught that crying can be a form of giving into sensuality, so we were to try to restrain it. I don’t cry easily but have cried a handful of times in my life before and after the group. I saw Ti choke up once and saw DO silently and expressionlessly weeping a couple times and saw him choked up many times and I don’t think any of those were examples of crying as a form of sensuality. Having “restraint” was one lesson step to employ. Other examples of where we were taught to be restrained was in voice volume and in our steps and in the closing of doors and cabinets.

Incidentally, what many people don’t know is that Ti and Do didn’t teach that there was anything wrong with pleasure. It was their program, if we wanted to be in their program, that we were required to only have the pleasures they provided, whether that was with food, as in ice cream and other sweet “treats” or by going to the movies or the zoo or to a museum or a theosophy meeting or by playing tennis or running on a track or playing volley ball, all of which we had at times, though in each we were to learn to do these things “in the way a member of the Next Level would do them,” which was according to Ti and Do’s judgement. For example the way a Member of the Next Level would play volleyball would be with the object of the game being to see how long the ball could be kept from hitting the ground instead of trying to make others miss the ball.

Even so, in the context of Glynn’s questions of why I joined and what I felt at TI’s exit and at the exit of the classroom, like I said, I didn’t have particular feelings. I can’t say I was sad or happy really. But I have a hard time seeing that lack of “feeling” in those cases as my not having communication with my “inner being,” though I understand that’s your profession now so perhaps you tend to paint others with that brushstroke.

That new age jargon often seems to me like it’s come into the pop CULT-ure to try to escape the original meanings of terms, most of which I first learned from Ti and Do and then saw their application in the records (Bible, etc.) when I started to write my Revelation’s prophecy interpretation book.

An “inner being”, to me was once referred to as a “spirit” or “soul”. My inner being was telling me loud and clear that I was involved with the greatest souls I could imagine existing that never waned even throughout my fall (thanks to God). This is exactly what I believe Chkody (Erika) and a number of others expressed as an “immediate recognition” shown in her part of the Exit Tapes.

I don’t know what you consider the “inner being” to actually be. Ti and Do didn’t elaborate in great technical detail about the meaning of some terms. They used the word “Mind” a lot ie. “get your Mind in your vehicle.” Later after Ti left is when I recall DO saying Mind was equivalent to the word Spirit. It wasn’t until around 1989 or so, when DO and crew wrote the book, The Transfiguration Diet that I learned more about those terms and it wasn’t until after I left the group that I learned from their Heaven’s Gate Book writings even more about what a Soul really is and how there are different kinds of souls for different ages of Minds entering into them and what actually constituted a “spirit/mind”. (see “Incarnating and Discarnating” on my blog or still on the Heaven’s Gate web page. Their entire book is there for a free download in text format).

In the Transfiguration Diet book, Do taught that there were one of “Three I’s” behind anyone’s saying, “I believe… this or that.” In other words the “I” is representing one of three voices; 1) The genetic expression from ancestral experiences of the human strain the vehicle developed within, 2) the vehicles immediate familial and/or societal “environmental” influences from the birth of the vehicle, that together form the spirit/mind of the vehicle and 3) the Mind that was part of a “deposit” (a subtle physical type of “computer chip”), the Soul, literally individually deposited into human vehicles by Members of the Next Level that returning Souls are put into by the Next Level and thus is where the idea of reincarnation comes from. Ti and Do always taught that the eastern religions definitions of reincarnation are not accurate, but the idea that Souls come back to incarnate into new vehicles is true.

For the sake of understanding only, anyone who takes offense at saying that all humans don’t have that third Soul component of the “I”, or inner being, there is no way to know who does or who doesn’t have one but anyone that wants it – wants to recognize more of what’s most true, can ask for it, that is, if they direct their asking to the highest source they can imagine existing in the distant heavens in search of the highest truths. Asking in that way avoids having renegade Souls and/or Spirits/minds, in the earth environment from providing an often lessor accurate answer to one’s questions. Having a Soul or not is unimportant because what’s most important for any seeker is whether we seek to “grow it” or not and if we do how quickly we choose to grow it, as I believe if we don’t use it, we can lose it. It’s not a competition, but everyone chooses their pace and the Next Level puts no limit on our pace. But the Spirit/mind of the vehicle still experiences the human kingdom “school” in each new vehicle it further develops within.

Ti and Do also taught that students (which at this time could apply to anyone, as there were more Souls “planted” than the 38 that laid down their lives, perhaps what the 144,000 number was recorded to represent), were developing a “feeler”, even associated with the Solar Plexus part of the human vehicle. TI also referred to this Feeler as a “muscle” and thus the basis of intuition.

I believe Frank is correct in saying Ti and Do taught that the vehicle’s mind was lower or lessor than the Mind that came from the Next Level and that relative to graduating out of the human kingdom it’s voice, for those who had chose to commit entirely to Ti and Do, in this example, was then the voice of a demon. In other words, by listening to our vehicle’s voice (no matter where it originated from) over our Next Level Mind’s voice (to the degree any human has drawn in Next Level Mind, which we often see as common sense, like not killing humans being a higher behavior than killing one another) would be allowing a demonic voice in our heads. A demon is the embodiment of any thought or action that is against Next Level behaviors and ways and the degree varies according to one’s grade in the Next Level Human Kingdom school that we are all in.

I didn’t hear Ti and Do using that term “demon” much. They called the “voices” of the vehicle either the emanation of the vehicle’s genetic mind (software programming) and/or from the spirit world (discarnates or renegade souls) or from thought transmissions, “Influences” and the “Lower Forces” of the planet and/or “Boogers,” lastly the term Ti and Do gave to identify the renegade souls (the legendary fallen angels, aka today as the space aliens (who are no longer allowed to circulate very far into space, who I believe can’t even circulate on the moon)) that were assigned to each class member to be an accelerated catalyst of their continued growth towards their graduation (spirit/soul/mind “birth,” as Jesus taught and termed) into Next Level membership.

So a big part of the classroom was to identify “influences,” whether in feelings (emotions) or via our thoughts that were human according to what Ti and Do taught. Initially that meant, putting the entire past of the vehicle behind us, hence changing the names we used to identify us as those names would trigger “tapes” (memories) that drag our vibration back into who we were before and we needed to become a new creature.

Ti and Do taught that in the human kingdom, such influences are many times actually “helpers.” They taught that our vehicles were actually biological computer systems that discarnates sought to use and “timeshare”, like what we see in a computer system that has different “buttons” to push to start programs by. These discarnates are themselves a batch of programs from all they became before death of their vehicle. So say a human dies as a master piano player, they still seek to fulfill that habit or practice or in some cases addiction, but lacking the physical vehicle to express themselves through, seek a vehicle that can provide them with some degree of the satisfaction they once received while alive. Ti and Do taught that some who rise to fame will have attracted an entourage of discarnate helpers so that when they walk into a room they have a more obvious presence, which is different from what one would feel from a Member of the Next Level, when they are incarnate.

So by learning to block out thoughts of the past, we were also blocking out many of the Influences we had gathered from birth. (Jesus compared that to “sweeping out one’s house”). But it didn’t stop there as while one was sweeping out their house they were also replacing that mind (as the discarnates are all minds, which is synonymous with spirit) that is human mind and also misinformation mind with the Mind from/through the current and present Older Members from the Next Level’s Mind (Holy or pure Spirit (Informational Mind). That’s why Ti and Do changed many of our terms as the old terms were like links to old memories, conscious or sub-conscious. When we used the new term we were replacing that old program with a new one from the Older Members and the more we did that, the more we were facilitating “body changes”, that description of how a caterpillar metamorphoses into a butterfly.

Thereby students were really intensely identifying with their feelings, though were processing the ones they believed to be old human feelings out of their being and replacing them with Next Level feelings and emotions, which would upon completion be 100% eventually. Those who were successful began to love everything they received from Ti and Do. They enjoyed having all those procedures. They didn’t see them as limiting or controlling anymore than a military officer sees his/her disciplines as limiting or controlling. They become proud of what they know they have acquired but in the Next Level they don’t decorate themselves to show others their “tail feathers”. (Jesus taught not to show off to others what they have become, like in the wearing of king/queens clothing or by taking the best seats in the temple or by smearing ashes over one’s face to show they are fasting).

So yes, as Frank said it was “self suppression”. In 1978 or so, TI at a meeting told the class that “you needed to give us your will”. After Ti left her vehicle DO confided in us that Ti thought by saying that then, they would lose “half the classroom”. At that time our numbers were probably in the 70’s and it got down to 24 but then when some returned to the class after the Beyond Human tapes was back into the mid 30’s before losing a few more again, or in the case of two students assigned to leave the class (because they were too old to keep up with the classroom procedures) so Do preferred they still serve the classroom from where they lived before they rejoined/joined (FLX/ABL). So speaking of that group it looks like what TI said happened, maybe even exactly, though the exact number is not important. Now one could say all didn’t leave because of that but when it comes down to it they did leave because of that as those who left didn’t want to continue to look to Ti and Do as their teachers – to replace their will with the will of Ti and Do for them. (Jesus taught that a disciple of his needed to “deny himself”, in other words deny his own will for himself, that is also said in other ways as “thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” in the Lord’s prayer and also what is meant by “loving the Lord your God with ALL your heart, All your Mind, All your soul and all your strength”, which Jesus said was the first greatest commandment (instruction/procedure) which would certainly included giving the incarnate REPS our will.

Relative to Frank’s saying that he sees “feelings as the language of intuition,” is not at all different from Ti and Do’s teachings when they said that the way one’s “feeler” operated was like a form of “radar”. When we were sent out on the road to hold meetings for about 9 months in 1975 and again for about 9 months in 1994, we were not in touch with TI and DO or in 1994 with DO hardly at all, so we had to use our “feeler” to try to feel where to go, what to do, who to try to talk to, determine whether it was a good town to hold a meeting in, etc. as in both cases we ran out of money so had to do so for all our needs (food, gas, lodging, meeting rooms, posters, etc.). Ti and Do also described the process of a Next Level Member piloting a spacecraft as the use of their feeler. When we watched the heavens at night, which was called Night Watch, we would log anything notable we saw while on that duty. Sometimes we would see objects traveling through the heaven’s with a type of wobble but unlike the way one would see a satellite or meteor or airplane doing. I think I recall and Frank may remember this better, but they said that was the way a Next Level craft is traveling that I think about now as their “feeling their way” on whatever “highways” exist in the Heavens (as Ti and Do said existed).

Again to Frank I ask, what is your “higher self” exactly and subsequently what is then the “lower self”? I just wrote about this from Ti and Do’s perspective.

Re: the “inner child” – to me that’s a new term/phrase that refers to one’s vehicular past when they were a child. I don’t deny that there can be a positive application to the identification of suppressed feelings from one’s vehicular childhood but it can be I believe a very slippery slope across the line of “fully hearing” them and not acting them out. Sure for an initial attempt to identify deep seated problems, maybe hearing feelings suppressed from our past can be freeing, but to repeat that process over and over, which I’m not saying you are suggesting could be ingraining those feelings. For instance an example from DO’s Mind: When the group spoke at a few meetings for Sexahaulics Anonymous or the like, DO later explained on their behalf that by people telling and retelling their same addiction story, they are like clinging to it and it’s vibration.

However the way Ti and Do taught this process was to reveal things as soon as they occur so they don’t get suppressed in the first place.

For instance relative to you (Frank) and I (Sawyer), starting with me (and I mean no offense by this, as it’s this way with all who seek to grow), had I exposed my feelings for some of the female students that translated as not controlling my eyes as well as I could have and other such dropping of guards to remain celebrate in mind as well as in my vehicle, then perhaps I would have developed the strength to ward off further “giving into those influences” that eventually resulted in hiding masturbation like I did that resulted in my choosing to leave the classroom because of not getting it under my control over nearly a years time. (Since that was one of the requirements of staying in the classroom to keep under control). The technique of doing that would be to “put up a blank card” at first sign of such a thought and/or feeling and learning to suppress it to where one still feels “it” knocking on one’s door to one’s mind but doesn’t let it become a thought nor direct the vehicle to acting it out further.

For the record, I didn’t entertain thoughts or feelings of doing anything with anyone and I hadn’t masturbated for 18 years before then and didn’t even come close, but apparently even seemingly small letting down of my guard repeatedly kept the door opened enough to where I became more vulnerable. For the sake of brevity, I’m not painting a thorough picture right now.

Here’s my opinion of what led up to your dropping out of the group, from what you have said in Episode 6; “my thoughts at times were filled with doubts and questioning everything…”, which he indicated was part of what compounded with the designed suppression of feelings that resulted in the development of a deeper voice and a bad stutter. And then that stimulated what you called the “red alert” when DO started thinking about whether TI would have us seek to stimulate our own exit by appearing to become a threat to the government. For the record, DO never entertained mounting any kind of attack against the government or to do any violent act against anyone ever. What he was saying in that post on the web was about taking a stand, not being submissive to them and how that would eventually lead to their becoming the aggressors.

By the way, Jesus’ radical teachings so angered the priestly Jewish leaders that they wanted him dead. Peter carried a sword but Jesus told him not to use it. At one point Jesus told his disciples that they needed to have a sword with them. They asked him if one was enough and he said it was. Jesus said this when he was talking about how his disciples would be going out to preach again and how it was different from the first time he sent them out, when they didn’t carry a sword. One can imagine the reasons Jesus gave this instruction but in this case perhaps the sword was a rifle. It didn’t mean he was becoming militant. He still said, “those who live by the sword die by the sword”. In DO’s case the rifle wasn’t to protect their vehicles lives, it was to give the paid killers the excuse they wanted to kill them. There is more to say about this and how this option seems to be depicted in the Revelation prophecy, chapter 20, though seemingly 1000 years from now, but it shows consistency with everything Jesus taught and did, though DO wasn’t trying to show consistency… it just happened that way because DO worked for the same Older Member so say and do things that would give many every excuse to not see him/them for who they really are.

Frank, it seems to me, that for part or all those years, since you were suppressing your feelings, they did grow more powerful over your control of your vehicle to where, like with me, it became like a boil that popped and with you it showed up as a very noticeable voice drop and stutter. But, like myself, that would not have become the problem it did, had we learned to employ the tools Ti and Do gave us to correctly suppress those thoughts and convert them into positives as was also taught, through the use of all the helps, our partners, the meditations and affirmations and slippage meetings and help wanted meetings and direct asking Ti and Do for help with each manifestation and in our silent prayers and via notes to them, etc. as they provided us.

For me and possibly for you, it wasn’t obvious that I was slipping but looking back I can see that I was subtly choosing to not follow certain procedures that were part of the help for me to remain transparent about my struggles.

However, none of these things need to remain a negative as DO told me when I had finally reported my breaking of my celibate vows that one of the hardest lessons was recovering from failure. Since Ti said the Soul we then saw as DO was the same soul who had performed the Adam task and that Adam did fall, I guess DO knew about failure and recovering from it as TI also said He recovered by the generation of his Souls incarnation into the vehicle named Enoch and then completed the overcoming “Christing” Process so Enoch’s vehicle was taken into the Next Level without dying.

 

Pineapple Street Heavens Gate Episode 6 x-member claims DO becomes Psychotic

December 17, 2017

Here is Sawyer’s response to the Pineapple Street Media’s podcast series Heaven’s Gate – episode 6 – The Choice – featuring x-Heaven’s Gate cult member – Frank (Andody) who joined together with Erika (Chkody) who joined from the same Waldport, Oregon meeting as did Sawyer (Swyody) in 1975.

Chkody was among the 38 who laid down their human vehicles lives with DO in March of 1997 and her statement is included in the podcast from the Student Exit Videos.

My response here is not to find fault with Frank in any way shape or form as he made his choice to join and made his 17+ year choices to stay in the cult and has since continued to make choices on how to think and talk publically about TI and DO and his experience. My aim is to present the side of a believer in Ti and Do, that I am and in that sense believe I can speak for Chkody (Erika) as well.

I consider all former classmates to be family because of our joint experience but when they say things that in my opinion misrepresent TI and DO, I feel committed to speak up about it, so the side for TI and DO is provided for others to judge for themselves what to believe about them. That voice for them is infrequently heard otherwise.

However, in life for all people, different people often come away with different responses to the same circumstances and especially when it comes to beliefs even within the same organization. I learned this many years ago pertaining to this Heaven’s Gate story, when I visited with Frank in Seattle, around 2005 and we had completely different takes of at least one event we both experienced in the classroom. Now I know there are a number, even many more.

Frank says, (regarding he and Ericka’s joining with TI and DO); “When first joining I was mixed about not being together anymore but didn’t want to miss the opportunity and [they would] take it one step at a time.” He says it “didn’t sink in that it would be the end of the relationship” (with Erika).

Erika said in the Exit tape she made, that at the Waldport meeting it was “instant recognition” (of Ti and Do and/or their information) for her.

I also experienced that instant recognition. It wasn’t like I had a deja vu experience, thinking I recognized TI and/or DO. For me it was a recognition that their information spoke to me as being true which felt so different from all the other spiritual minded quests I’d read about or experimented with up until then. I knew I had to go with them and knew it meant leaving all behind and giving it my 100% of time and energy. I knew that included breaking up with my partner, now known as Sarah (Srfody), one of the Heaven’s Gate Webmasters with Mark (Mrcody), whom I had lived with for five years before then. She was from the same home town on Long Island where we met and who I fell in love with and who I sought to build my life with that included moving to the British Columbia, Canada bush/mountain country to try to homestead.

When Sarah and I left the Waldport/Newport, OR area, about the third day after the meeting in Waldport with Ti and Do, which was the time frame recommended to “get our house in order,” not having any other circumstances to require more time, (as some others had with house ownership and children even), I recall Sarah for the first time in even years wanting to snuggle and perhaps have sex. This was unusual because I had become the sole instigator of that physical part of our relationship and just a month or two before that time Sarah had started up a relationship with another man named Hobbit that followed what might have been another, possibly with a Canadian man (Aldi) who came to visit us and who she went up to visit. (I only know for sure about her open fling with Hobbit, but what was clear is that she hadn’t been happy with me for quiet some time and how she hitchhiked up to Canada without me to pursue.)

I was heartbroken by those events that did not work out for her so she wanted to get back together with me which I agreed to, having recovered from her choices but I was not angry with her for. I’m not faulting her for wanting someone else, but to then want me in that physical way for the first time in a long time, by her instigation struck me then as very odd and for the first time in our 5 year relationship I turned her down.

My point in explaining this, is that it appeared to be an indicator that she may not have had the same kind of instant recognition I had and would explain why she had a number of episodes in the classroom that showed that and led to her wanting to leave when the opportunity presented itself with Mark’s choice to no longer abide by DO’s teaching lesson step that was referred to as “I could be wrong.” That lesson step was designed to reduce our dependence in our own human mind over the Mind from our Older Members – Ti and Do. That lesson step was kin to when TI told us all that, “you need to give us your will” in around 1978. And it seems to be exactly what Jesus taught when he said to be his disciple one needed to “deny yourself” and is what would be a primary part of a disciples prayer to their Heavenly Father that requested that “your will be done on earth as it is in heaven”.

I was not mixed about breaking up with Sarah, though I won’t say it wasn’t a little awkward when I did see her, but like Frank described, we two were also separated and when we traveled were assigned to different groups.

The Host of the show then says: “It was drilled into the followers that human emotions were not allowed in the Next Level” and something about how one could not be “in love” and get to the Next Level.

That’s a huge distortion to say, as human emotions were not banned. We had no procedure that said, Thou shall have no emotions. I’d bet most members laughed every day and it would have been inappropriate to laugh at another expense or behind the back of others like is frequent in the human kingdom.

We still experienced sadness at times, like when we individually slipped from our goals, but it’s true we were taught not to linger in that sadness and use it to stimulate having an even better handle on those goals. (One goal would be to remain celibate in both body and mind). We were taught to maintain a “pleasant countenance”, a part of controlling our vehicles vibration.

If someone was “down in the mouth”, it wasn’t like they would be reprimanded by anyone but it showed they were troubled about something so their partner or the Overseeers of a department they were in, might ask them about it or write to Ti and Do about it, as it could be a sign that they aren’t happy even being here if they couldn’t override it.

Another time for some sadness was when TI and DO pushed us to be more “thirsty” for next steps. There was never any yelling or raising of voices or threats of any kind, nor punishment, like happens all the time in the human kingdom to keep people in line, to keep their jobs, etc.

On a rare occasion we learned they were displeased with us. The times I’m thinking of just so happened to take place when we were living in Austin and DO delivered the news in one of those cases. Ti had instigated choral singing of Christmas carols, that she did not participate in, as she said she wanted us to learn to look to DO for direction. (DO never sang with us, more than a few notes to demonstrate how to sing a certain phrase). Mllody played piano. We sang for TI after we’d practiced some and some in the class designed new lyrics to the song, The Twelve Days of Christmas. We gave TI a little concert. A very short time later, DO held a meeting without TI present and said something about our lyrics disturbed TI. Those lyrics were “ten years a waiting…” (meant to imply waiting for the pickup). The students who wrote those lyrics that we practiced separately, I believe were drawing from knowing that TI and DO hating being here because the vibration had become so distorted. TI even thought parts of the plant kingdom showed that lower vibration. The example I can recall was how TI thought the oak trees she saw growing in Texas weren’t designed to grow all crooked and twisted up like they are. They wanted the task to be over, so they could go back to resume the life style and physical vehicles and positions they had before coming to earth to do this task.

TI considered being in the human kingdom like being in a snake pit and I didn’t see it that way, even a little until after I left and I realized that to us, it’s normal for there to be all kinds of sneakiness, deceit, back biting, back stabbing, profiteering to another detriment, manipulations, predatory behaviors, legalized robbery and murder, sold as collateral damage to anybody who is in the wrong place at the wrong time because their leaders stand in the way of certain agendas, Examples as of late are found in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, etc where people are killed or die because of.

But what DO helped us see was how He was with his Older Member and we were with our Older Member so we weren’t going to have the same longing to leave. We should have been happy to stay as long as it’s our task to stay. We were not really “waiting” to exit as we had our Overcoming tasks to do and needed to be here to finish it. TI didn’t need to learn the lessons we were having.

I realized, in a sense, since originally they said we’d be picked up in “months” and “not later than 5 years”, both of which didn’t come true, it was like pushing that into TI’s face to say we were waiting. By the way, TI had said one time that the reason the “demonstration” didn’t happen as they thought it would was because the students were not ready to leave then. That would explain how Revelation 11 regarding the Two Witnesses could be translated in several ways because of the varied time frames in the prophecy in between their being “subdued” and then “separating by dying themselves” (also having several interpretations that could have worked to demonstrate fulfillment).

There was also no prohibition from enjoying a food or a sunset or mountain view or the colors and aromas of flowers, etc, though Ti and Do taught that we would outgrow even those degrees of sensual stimulus.

But yes having emotion between students was taught to be suppressed and redirected to one aim, to foster that emotion with only our Heavenly Father, though TI, before she exited made it very specific that our commitment (love) was to be towards DO only. TI instigated this and it was the lesson step of making one’s “committal” to DO, which we did individually and privately in notes that would go directly to Ti and Do. They didn’t tell us what to say in our notes but we were required to express ourselves. If we couldn’t it was a sign that we weren’t in the right place being in that classroom.

As a matter of fact, I think it safe to say that everything Ti and Do taught, said and did had the potential of “testing” our commitment if we made one. That’s the nature of being a student in a cult – there are no tail feathers on the teachers – no degrees in Theology or affiliation with the rich and famous or to huge mega million dollar organizations that all tend to give us a sense of credibility, whether we see it or not.

So it’s true that one can not graduate into the Next Level when married (committed and “in love” with another human). Jesus taught this when he said:

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection ((rising, Standing up again, graduation)) they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Marriage was the form of making that committal, TI said, was started by the Next Level, to bring some structure to whom one propagated with. It became known as adultery when people broke the various procedures that governed such commitments and relationships. Jesus said Moses gave in to his students to allow them to divorce. Moses and Jesus taught that the aim was for students to give all their heart, all their mind, all their soul and all their strength to God, but when a Representative from God’s kingdom wasn’t physically present in a human vehicle with us then the way we would show our love for God was to demonstrate it by loving our neighbors as ourselves. In other words we were to see all humans we lived among as our neighbors. It’s not a theoretical “love” and nor was it meant as a sexual love, but a friendly love.

So as long as one was abiding by the teachings of the Next Level in that regard as best they could, getting up whenever they fall short of that, they were still growing closer to becoming members of the Next Level. All the plants in the “garden” don’t grow at the same rate and have bursts of growth at the same times and to the same degrees. So the lesson steps, though everyone can apply them, are given in stages so no one has more on their plate than they can handle, that is if they look to the Next Level for help.

The Next Level determines which souls or spirits still have the capacity to advance closer to graduation and “saves” them for a future opportunity, though they turn up the heat for each of us to make our choices of whom to serve, like Jesus said between making our master, God (The One true kingdom of God in whatever terms, secular or religious) OR Mammon (human mammalian forms of treasure and wealth)

TI and DO said that the Next Level still loves Lucifer and that they have given him and his associates who fell many opportunities to get back on track, even though the more one goes against the Next Level’s present Representatives teachings the harder it gets to change, so that one subtly loses whatever degree of recognition they once had. Thus the lessons need to get harder for that soul to be stimulated to change.

Frank then talks about how: “my thoughts at times were filled with doubts and questioning everything…”, which he indicated was part of what compounded with the “suppression of feelings” that resulted in the development of a deeper voice and a stutter in his speech.

I do wonder where Frank got the understanding that DO’s mimic of his suddenly deeper voice was expressing a masculine voice. I don’t recall if DO spoke about it at that meeting but I doubt he did, though not saying it’s not possible. The way Frank says it in the broadcast was, “…he was conveying to me that I was expressing a masculine voice.” Whatever DO said or didn’t say, Frank said he felt “humiliated – ashamed for expressing my masculinity” and said he had a “deep seated anger of who is he to express how I should speak”.

I guess by that point it shows that just being a body in the classroom didn’t necessarily mean much when one’s mind was far apart, so in this way DO’s response of repeating a low sounding voice, that Frank sees as mimicking, and may be an accurate depiction became a test to get him “off the fence,” he had apparently been on, or he wouldn’t have built up a “deep seated anger” towards DO as he reported.

Why was Frank angry? I don’t know if he gave reasons why he was angry. In terms of his reporting his response to DO’s “mimic” of thinking, “who is he [DO] to express how he [Frank] should speak,” DO was the individual he chose to leave all behind to follow, at that point for over 10 years. As far as I could tell, Frank was as committed to Ti and Do’s process as anyone else but what was going on in his head or that he might have talked about with him partners and/or TI and DO was not known to me.

But at that point of the mimic, it seems Frank didn’t see DO as his teacher or he wouldn’t have had “deep seated anger” because he would have been keeping things surfaced.

I was given a number of personal lessons and in none of them was I embarrassed. All the students got lessons in group and personally. Had I been Frank’s partner then and say he starting talking in a much lower than usual voice, I probably would have felt obligated to mention it to him, bring it up to him to examine it, and perhaps I would have written a note to DO about it since it was my partner and partners were instructed to ask one another for their observations and help to see their ways that were not the ways taught to us from TI and DO.

There was no procedure on how to speak and what tone our voice would have but this was certainly not normal for Frank so it was in itself a “red flag” that something was wrong. Now to clarify, if a partner knew their partner had been working with DO on any behavior or way, the partner wouldn’t try to step in. I never said anything to Frank about his low voice and/or stutter and I doubt anyone else would have either as it was then between him and DO. At the time I didn’t even think about it at all really. It was strange but I didn’t have a judgement about it. That wasn’t my business – we were all taught to keep our eyes on our own behavior and ways, unless something came about that we had to pay attention to.

Frank says, “I was not allowed to be me… not safe to express who I am…” and that was true because who “me” was needed to shift from the old “me” to the new “me”, from the caterpillar “me” to the butterfly “me”. It was getting rid of a human form of individuality.

Ti and Do taught that no humans are really individuals because we don’t know how we become the product of the discarnate influences that attach to us. They taught that who we really are is the “chooser” of what to think, say and do, which decided which discarnates we accept and which we reject. And there is nothing wrong with that. It’s a beautiful design of the human kingdom but was never meant to be satisfying, hence why we go through stages of “seeking” what more there might be, though that may only surface in our conscious as dissatisfaction with who we are, what we are doing.

If by “suppression of feelings” Frank is referring to not being allowed to play out his feelings for Erika, yes that was part of the program. And yes I agree that according to Ti and Do, not changing our human feelings to feelings for TI and DO’s Mind, instructions, procedures, behaviors and ways in the Next Level Program for us, could have negative mental and/or physical consequences, as DO talked about in relationship to Terrie’s physical ailments, from the suffering in relationship to her dealing with her mother’s absence from her life, which DO indicated could have been largely subconscious because of her root system to TI, her vehicle’s mother.

Additional suppression of feelings we all had to impose upon ourselves to be in the program 100% was by blocking out the past and thus suppressing feelings for our human family, friends, career, goals, forms of entertainment, desires that even include doing what one wants to do when one wants to do it. Rkkody exemplified this last point. He left the class no less than three times and was able to stay in touch so returned each time until he laid down his life in 1998. It became known among class members in a light hearted way, since DO knew Rkkody both recognized his Older Member and I know, loved him, that he felt confined at times and just wanted to be able to “go out and get a pizza when he wanted to”. DO, I believe brought specific example at a meeting when Rkkody had returned.

But this suppression of the expression of human feelings for things that used to be in our lives, didn’t have to be a negative just like not giving into sensuality, though perhaps somewhat unhealthy to a human’s normal health, if it was purely voluntary and dealt with, as such feelings surfaced, wouldn’t become a negative in that program. For instance, when I joined I knew I was going to have to cease playing musical instruments. I was part of a 4 piece band who had gigs in and around Newport, Oregon. I left them and sold my instruments. (By the way I don’t recall TI or DO or any of their literature spelling that out. I just knew it. But on that subject, I used to have dreams that I was trying to play the flute and couldn’t get the notes out, like I didn’t have the wind. For the first month after joining I had a flute with me that I brought to try to sell on the road. I didn’t feel to play it and I knew I was starting a new life and such things would no longer be in it. I sold it and used the money to buy a broken down car that lasted maybe a week.

But had I longed to play music, I imagine if I didn’t block out those feelings and shift my attention to the activities in the classroom at that time, they could have become pent up stress that over time could get stronger and could have tempted me to want to leave because of and/or could have taken a toll on my health in some ways. So that becomes compounded, the more things like that we don’t block out of our consciousness.

Frank said when he left the cult he was “elated”. In a sense I was also when I left, noting that I enjoyed doing simple things for myself, like choosing what I wanted to eat.

The way TI and DO would explain that, was that once we leave the class, we were “going with our discarnate influences” re-attracting the influences we had been keeping at bay by not giving into doing the things that the influences sought to attach to us to do through our vehicle; i.e. playing an instrument, fixing a meal of our choice, playing a sport, having a relationship, having sex, pursuing a career, etc.

Thus leaving the class eliminated that conflict which the vehicle then felt elated by. However, according to Jesus (just like what Ti and Do taught in different terms) we then attract “7 other demons that are worse than what we had to deal with before.” I can’t say I can count 7 discarnates that sought to attach to me after I left, but I can recognize characteristics of thinking I have to deal with now that I never had to deal with before and during the classroom time. For instance of late I’ve seen myself judging what others do and how others physically look to me. In the past I would have recognized differences in people’s appearance but now I’ve got an opinion about it that sort of defines the “book by it’s cover” which to me is a demon. However, I do still retain Ti and Do’s teachings so when I hear those thoughts I treat them as demons and shoe them away. Ti and Do taught that we are not responsible for the thoughts that occur to us, but we are responsabile for the thoughts we allow to linger in our consciousness.

In a comment Frank made on the Episode 5 facebook page, he said something about not suppressing feelings while not always “acting (them) out” either, but allowing ourselves to express them as being good for us to do. I’m not saying some of that can not be advantageous. I suspect that’s the basis of “confession of sins (missed the mark)”, to get things off our chest. We had regular weekly “slippage meetings” for that purpose, yet had a bunch of procedures of what not to bring up (sexuality, not even using the word) except as a generalization of something to the affect of “I gave into sensuality” and in that case would add that we wrote a note to TI and DO explaining the details. We had instruction to not blame anyone else for our slippage and to provide a remedy with each one, so what one might say, “I entertained thoughts of the past” and my remedy was to “nip it in the bud” better next time.

But I wonder if repeating our feelings over and over could be considered by Ti and Do as an indulgence in those thoughts and thus a strengthening of them and if there are others present who are susceptible to their influence an even greater negative to say out loud.

Ti and Do taught that the thoughts and feelings we have become what we are and what we “believe” and what we get when we exit these vehicles, whether they are based in reality and what degree or not. The more we entertain these beliefs the stronger we become them. When class members entertained thoughts that doubted DO they also separated from him, from His Next Level Mind and start to lose touch more and more with recognizing who He and TI are and who they represent and from having the strength to ward off the Lower Forces misinformation attacks. This applies to all aspects of the classroom, not just to doubts. When we don’t do our homework by kicking out thoughts, behaviors and ways that are not from their mind, to include thoughts/feelings of sensuality we separate from him.

Frank expressed this was happening from the start so it’s no wonder he came to see DO in a different light than that classmates that stayed, including Chkody (Erika) and others, to the point that he began to see DO, in his words as “a little psychotic” when DO brought to his students attention, after the Branch Davidian ATF/FBI murders in 1992, his consideration of the way we might get firearms to pose a threat to authorities who might then become the instruments of our laying down our vehicles lives.

Note – Even though Jesus rebuked Peter when he struck, with a sword, one of the Jewish military (Sanhedrin guards) who came to capture Jesus by his arrangement, Jesus was against violence yet instructed his disciples to have a sword with them:

Luk 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
Luk 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Why did they need to carry swords this time when they went out to preach about him when they didn’t have them before when he sent them out. Was he trying to pose a threat without suggesting use of the sword when he said:

Mat 26:51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest’s, and smote off his ear.
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Perhaps some that they would encounter in their travels might cause some to think twice about confronting them. Jesus at their last supper together told them their task was to go out and tell the truth about what they heard and experienced from Jesus. Jesus knew that if they hated him they would hate his students too since they were of the same Mind. So Jesus led them to “laying down their human lives,” because they chose to follow him, as he was demonstrating. Jesus said that they would have to “drink from the same cup” that was literally willing to shed their blood as he was willing to do because this was part of their demonstration of their overcoming aka their Christing (metamorphic) task.

But hearing this perspective from DO, I admit was a tiny bit challenging for me to consider doing anything with a weapon, yet I knew TI nor DO would condone being violent. They considered the governments that murdered people and built weapons for that purpose as primitive savage “snakes” or “weeds”, while many in society see it at best as so called necessary evil, yet the only necessary evil as Jesus taught was in the provision of the Luciferian fallen angel space alien souls that provided our choices to go against God’s laws or not. Thus that presentation became a test of each students recognition of DO and whether they chose to override doubts and negative judgements of him or not.

It’s quite possible and even probable that the entire premise of laying down our vehicles by the hand of the govt was unlikely, at least at that time during the First Wave (Classroom), though could still apply into the future as it did after Jesus left, which is indicated in Jesus’ prophecy as occurring during the 5th Seal Opening time period. We are currently in the start of the 4th Seal Opening time period, that of the Green Horse (human vehicle) (Trump) – money, wealth being in charge which followed Obama as the “black or jacinth “horse” (human vehicle) that coincided with the wall street banking crisis in 2007-8. This followed the Red Horse (G.W. Bush and administration as the Red (Ruddy) horse who brought the endless war on terror, starting in 2000 after DO fulfilled the task of the White horse when he came public starting in the 1990’s in ways that can be documented to show demonstrating the remaining 6 of 7 roars (thunders) from the Lion of the Tribe of Juda.

But at this time, it seemed more and more apparent that DO saw the modus operandi of the Luciferian Space Alien “Fallen Angels” at this time as mostly to ignore He and TI and their returning crew of “saints”. That’s what prompted him to get bolder with what we claimed in the 1994 meeting posters and presentation, even stating in the last poster what the “shedding of our vehicles may be required”.

In the Portland, Oregon meeting in early 1994, that we do have on tape, DO expressed this to some degree, considering that we might have to get even bolder to put the truth in front of more people that could also generate a response that could assist us in our exit, as it did 2000 years ago, where people thought they were killing in God’s name.

The authorities have become the unwitting instruments of the lower forces of this planet, thus they will in many cases justify their agendas – the execution of atrocities all over the planet, seeing even their murders as “collateral damage” to keep their authority and profiteering.

DO had followed the Randy Weaver story that followed Waco and the Freemen story as well and though he never supported anyone’s enacting violence against anyone, knew that potential for us to become targets existed so he sought to prepare us for that, should it happen before or after he left. So like Jesus he was following his instruction from his Older Member to even bring up the subject of firearms, taking his clue in that regard from the Waco event. That’s the way the Next Level works, using human’s choices to convert them into a Next Level positive, in this case, completing their task which always involved leaving earth without our human vehicles.

Yes, Do thought about this and the part that Ben Zeller read was written by DO but what wasn’t nor understood was how DO updated that writing and in so doing took away that entire section about taking up firearms. He first posted the initial document, entitled, “Undercover Jesus Surfaces Before Departure” on September 25-26, 1995 and in January of 1997 updated it that even changed the title to: “Undercover “Jesus” Surfaces Before Departure”. Jesus was put in quotes because as they always said neither Ti nor Do were Jesus because Jesus was the name of the vehicle an Older Member from the Next Level (who TI said was DO) incarnated into to perform that task. (Though they always said from 1974-6 that all the Revelations prophecies would be fulfilled that included Jesus coming in the 7th and last “closeness” where they considered themselves as the 6th closeness and that that coming was not to be a “teaching one” (like the 6th was via the Two Witnesses task of delivery of new information via speaking).

Below I provide a link to my blog post that shows the full comparison of these two versions of Undercover “Jesus” where the part about obtaining a firearm was removed.

https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2017/12/15/do-reduces-the-requirements-to-leave-with-him-by-updating-undercover-jesus-surfaces-before-departure/

Plus he never manipulated anyone – there were never any locked door or fences around our campgrounds. Keys to cars were locked up every night because some would leave in the middle of the night sometimes and Ti and Do didn’t want to lose a car to them. Money was locked up for the same reason. Doors were locked to keep people from the outside from coming in. But I don’t recall phones were disconnected at night though we often had someone up all night doing a night watch task. If someone wanted to leave Ti and Do preferred they tell them and they always tried to help them with a bus or airplane ticket and sometimes with a car and/or some money as was the case with me. I was given a plane ticket and $600 in cash. They still almost always moved soon after someone would leave if Ti and Do felt they might reveal where we were, in case a private eye was looking for someone.

DO never entertained mounting any kind of attack against the government or to do any violent act against anyone ever (Their exit method was not violent. It was as gentle as one could imagine leaving one’s vehicle could be – the vehicle dying in one’s sleep).

However, further addressing that part of the Undercover…” post Ben Zeller read in Episode 6 was what came after describing – Believers in Them taking a stand, not being submissive to authorities (though not breaking any laws either) and how that could eventually lead to those authorities becoming the aggressors and seeing radicals with firearms as a threat to the public so could facilitate their exit of their vehicles.

DO was simply following his instruction from TI by outlining an option that the Next Level would find an acceptable way to both show our commitment to the Next Level by following, if we so chose, and as a way to lay down our vehicles to exit should authorities bring trumpeted up charges against us individually or as a group and not having to submit to them and their treatment of us. He made those posts in 1995, approx. 6 months or more after he had outlined for the entire class the procedure for self exiting that he still continued then to prepare for.

I know DO bought at least one rifle which I read about in Rio’s book saying Strody (a classmate with a 60 something year old female vehicle) did some target shooting when they were building what they called a “fortress” near Mansano, New Mexico. Rio didn’t indicate there was a program for all to learn to shoot the rifle.

I’m not sure where I got this, but thought if we got a rifle we would load it with blanks and/or learn to shoot above the heads of someone so if it was to be used it would appear to be a real threat. I can’t actually say I recall DO saying that so perhaps it was how I first dealt with the idea after the Waco murders of the Branch Davidians when DO first brought up the idea. It wasn’t an easy idea for me to handle as it faced me at the time with just how far I would go in my commitment to DO. Would I shoot someone, if I was given that instruction, I asked myself and what I felt was that I wouldn’t be asked to do that. But I did not question DO’s bringing it up and considering it, so like everything in the classroom it felt like another test that I would pass and it would not be the last such test.

The way I heard Frank speak of that classroom it sounded as if he resented the procedures, saying we had to “toe the line” as if it was drudgery as opposed to performing our task assignments with a sense of feeling very happy and even honored to do so. He said we were to “stay under the radar”, as if we were hiding when a huge part of the classroom overcoming process was to want to be transparent and to enjoy being watched all the time. In this context it would have only been a negative to be watched if we sought to hide something. I think from Franks admission he had something to hide thus appears to have resented being under that Next Level microscope.

Franks case and I, Sawyer also engaged in some deceit and tried to hide some of my behaviors. But to be clear this isn’t always totally conscious, so it may be mostly in hindsight that Frank has developed his apparent disdain for DO and the classroom experience.

Ti and DO used to compare their task on earth to being “undercover” and dropped behind enemy lines to where the only lifeline they had was their remote communication with the Next Level and that the task was so important that they didn’t want to say or do anything that would jeopardize the successful completion of that task. I didn’t see that as illusionary thinking. It made perfect sense to me. But a big part of being undercover was in the procedures they had to use to verify they are receiving instructions from their “heavenly Father” as opposed to the efforts of a human or human equivalent trickster. Before Ti left her vehicle she had taught DO how to engage that “checking” process. Part of that was running things by his “helpers” and/or “overseers”. But that was often combined with his observations of events in the world, with the Waco event.

The basis of having “check partners” was to perform all our tasks with more confidence we were working in accordance to our Older Member’s wishes. And partners were to help us be to our partners a “mirror” other sets of eyes to help us see our self and what we might be thinking, saying or doing differently from what our Older Members had taught. That is what Jesus meant by making one’s eye single – having 100% concentration on one aim – to follow our Older Member wherever he goes and in whatever he would have us do.

We needed to want to be subject to that “radar”. It was part of becoming crew minded and not seeking to shine for shining sake. “Behaving” – living according to the provided behaviors and ways, “Following procedures, the rules, to those that truly wanted to be there were very satisfying, very fulfilling and purposeful feeling. Anyone that has worked in a team effort knows how great it feels to be part of that team and how fun it is to work together as different spokes in the wheel and for those that were fully there, I know they felt that.

I’m not suggesting Frank didn’t experience a lot of this pride and satisfaction, but at least in the way he spoke that was put together by the Pineapple Street crew it would seem he has forgotten about or sees in a different light now.

We developed a lot of procedures surrounding our need to feed these vehicles, to set up the preparation of food as an experiment, which I see as ingenious – simulating the real deal of training to meet the qualifications of becoming a crew member in laboratories that are involved in the mechanics of a vast creation.

So Frank calls DO “controlling” and says he got even more controlling after TI left her vehicle, but the facts are that if one wants to consider him ever to be “controlling”, he became less of that after TI left.

If he became more controlling, then why did he send us back to visit families again in 1987? Why wasn’t their sending us to visit families in 1985 enough after the first 10 years of no such visits. The first visit was spoken of by Ti and Do as relieving anxieties family members had that they became most aware of when they found out about the Newsletter Nancy Brown started. It was because of that visit that Rthody decided to leave and is when Frank and Erika who traveled together would have had the chance to run away together and when I could have run away with “sarah” as we two traveled together (and I felt on the airplane and in a car with her, I did wonder if she was coming on to me, but I ignored it.

Starting in 1987 DO brought in a bunch of books, some about UFO’s, abduction reports, close encounters, UFO Crash at Aztec, that included autopsy reports from Dr. Leonard Stringfield. He started up a little video project I was on the committee for. He sent Lggody and others to UFO conferences in Arkansas and Nevada to video interview leading ufologists.

He started us into all kinds of health and longevity research. We had a little company called, ALERT (Advanced Life Extension Research Team). He had us publish a book called the Transfiguration Diet. I was assigned to drive one of our little carpools. I’d drop off classmates at their “out of craft tasks” (jobs in the world) and then go to mine by myself and during my lunch hour, I chose to visit book stores of my choosing to sell books. I could have easily just cashed my check one day and drove off with a Cadillac. I remember one time even having that thought, though it wasn’t a thought I had been entertaining so it had no affect on me, nor did I have any reason to want to leave.

It seemed we had more frequent times when we were required to spend 20 minutes or so opening the door of our minds to whether there was something in the world we wanted. When that time period was over we were to resume blocking out such thoughts. However, if we had been entertaining such thoughts it would have strengthened such thoughts.

DO offered students $2000 to leave the classroom saying he didn’t want anyone staying because of fear of going back into the world and because life in the classroom had become easy – communal living, no worry about the things humans had to worry about like paying bills, keeping a job, dealing with life in what TI called the “real world” as ours was a simulation of life on a spacecraft and if one person lost a job it didn’t break the bank.

DO brought in more books related to the bible – Strong’s concordance, 4-5 versions of the Bible, Dakes, the Parallel, an Amplified, the dead sea scrolls, about the Essenes, the Nag Hammadi library, the Inner Earth evidence from Admiral Byrd’s expedition and even the book Holy Blood Holy Grael that depicted Jesus tricking people to think he had died and resurrected and instead went to live in France where he started a family. That was not the story we thought happened so DO was providing us with that thinking and I don’t recall that he talked about the book.

DO wrote “’88 Update The UFO Two and their Crew”, in which he revealed before he had awakened how he had been leading a homosexual lifestyle. Who knows whether learning that tested some.

Srrody and I started two companies (DBA’s). One we called, Think Link and the second one was called Word Wise and we tried to secure contract programming jobs and got a few but we were on our own to plan what we would do and how.

Srrody and I started training classmates to do computer programming work. DO didn’t give us procedures on how to do that. Students who were intested in that line of work volunteered. Chkody was one of them, with Glnody.

We started making crosses out of fine/rare woods and inlayed semi-precious stones in some of them. Prkody (who left before Frank and has since died) was a primary and Srrody and I were on the crew and we ended up selling them. Do left us on our own as to their design as there are many different kinds of crosses.

When we dealt with the public at times we started being more honest about who we were, saying we were a monastic group. I remember when Lggody was assigned the primary position to design a portable stand for the two 7 foot diameter satellite dishes we had. I was Lggody’s check partner and he was brother Logan and I was brother Sawyer to the people we bought supplies from. That was a change from hiding the true nature of our group.

I never saw Ti nor Do as controlling anyway. If Frank didn’t want to be there, which he indicated was the case, then he was seeing what he chose to “see”. There was no manipulation and the controls were all voluntary so can’t be rightfully considered controlling.

We were taught to fully control our own vehicles, whether that meant not letting out gas outside the “bath chamber” or not allowing our vehicle to dwell on the past or on sensuality or even in imagining ways to fix the human world.

Finally, I will show how DO actually relaxed certain “controls” as to who could qualify to catch the eye of a member of the Level Above Human. This is shown by the differences between the first and last versions of the document DO wrote entitled, ‘Undercover “Jesus” Surfaces Before Departure’. At first he expressed that “laying down” of one’s human body was needed to demonstrate one’s bond and leave with him to not be among those who are recycled. He changed it to “preparing to lay down one’s body” while not disqualifying that one could die from natural causes and still have their Soul saved for a future classroom. He also removed the prospect of taking up a firearm so the authorities might assist one in exiting their vehicle (not by doing any harm to anyone with it but just by having it when one might be apprehended by authorities for being a radical and not choosing to submit to being taken to jail on trumped up charges, for example).

As shown by my post on the way DO reduced the qualifications to leaving with him, the edit/update of Undercover “Jesus”… demonstrates without question less “control” over who could aspire to advance towards their own graduation.

Nor did DO demonstrate that “controlling and manipulative” person Frank and others try to paint him as, when Frank told DO he wanted to leave. Is asking him if he is sure evidence of controlling and manipulation? Lets say one of our kids who became an adult didn’t want to follow in the footsteps of their parents – to join and help run the parents’ company. Wouldn’t a good parent try to remind their offspring what they are giving up? That was DO appealing to that part of He and Ti’s Mind that was still in Andody’s vehicle – Frank. DO was showing how he cared for Andody to face him with that prospect. DO didn’t say no, he couldn’t leave or didn’t delay his leaving nor have students try to talk him out of it. Remember Frank had become DO’s student for around 17 years at that point and that meant passing by many “tests.”

Finally, Frank says when he was preparing to leave, “classmates were hovering around to make sure I didn’t take anything I wasn’t supposed to take,” another example of how he was in his own world as we had no instruction to watch him that I was aware of and I was one that took him to the airport. However perhaps Srrody did receive instructions to sort of usher him out of the classroom and that could have included giving back the silver wedding bands we wore, that DO gave us to represent our marriage to him (that TI before she left had told us to show to DO our commitment to him). DO at first started to wear a silver wedding band and then he had an event to where each student received one and he spent time with each student, silently as a more formal solidification of what that ring represented.

It’s interesting how that “marriage” relationship was described by Jesus related to the students in the end time. And it’s also interesting how the Luciferian space alien fallen angels stimulated a facsimile event with the Moonies where they had a huge mass marriage but not to him but to other students and it was nothing like in Ti and Do’s group as they really got married in the states eyes and I imagine were sexual and perhaps some went on to propagate, a distortion of what Jesus taught as for “angels” (in the making even) there is no marriage (as we think of marriage) and no propagation of the species. However, that wasn’t saying if one was married before they made their commitment to the Next Level entirely that they were not able to “marry” their Older Member. That option exists for as long as we each have a human vehicle.

It’s simply human mammalian behaviors needing to be outgrown to literally graduate into Next Level membership.

Glynn say’s DO became “more cruel” but where was there any evidence anywhere that he was ever cruel. What was cruel about he and Ti’s sending 19 students who followed them away from the group? What was cruel about spending all their money they received from donations on us, outfitting us to live outdoors for the first 3+ years without income?

Frank described Erika in the start of this podcast as being “loving, compassionate, bright, and intuitive” and yet he paints a picture of the individual (DO) who she, in the name of Chkody loved and gave her life to, as psychotic, manipulating and controlling and having lost his objectivity that led to her and the other student’s committing suicide. That doesn’t say much about her brightness and intuition.

What’s controlling and manipulative is shown in much of these podcasts, and in this episode in particular by putting such a focus on what Frank says to paint a picture to people that DO was controlling and cruel just like what was done to paint Ti as hypocritical in episode 4. None of these involved with this project are operating with a completely informed perspective so they might want to restrain publicly expressing their negativity. Like Jesus said the way we judge others will be the way we are judged. That’s because we become believers in our own judgement, so continue to draw to us the ramifications of having that judgement and we then become forced to “act it out”, which is why there has been an exponential increase in mass shootings, etc.

To me it’s also manipulative to depict Glynn’s early in life experience in a Christian “cult” that was hardly a cult at all comparing it to the Heaven’s Gate cult when there was nothing about them that were alike except for the references to things Biblical and of Jesus. It can easily be shown that all the religions and even today’s anti-religion groups are far from their origin in the case of Christians from the cultish Jesus teachings.

It’s easy to see how Glynn’s cult experience was not evidenced to have much of the real Jesus in it, thus why it did become an example of Luciferian influenced corruption as Jesus said would happen and spoke to as their being “false Christ(ians),” not even knowing what it means to be engaged in the Christing process – coming to trick people who can be tricked into thinking they are serving the One True Kingdom of God when they don’t know Him hardly, if at all. This is on a person by person basis and even if we do recognize the many ways we’ve been tricked, we can still change and the best advise for that is to seek what’s most true at any cost to previous ideas. That can only happen if we project our asking beyond the stars to reach the highest source we can imagine and then proceeding as a seeker – busting past previous limitations of what what might look like.

I’ve written about the dozens of examples that show how Ti and Do demonstrated the same behaviors and ways and requirements of students that Jesus required to join his cult and yet I get no time to say anything about any of that.

Most of the only things they ended up using from the interviews I gave were things they could use to paint a distorted, hypothetically inaccurate negative slanted picture of the real Ti and Do and crew.

Another example of their focusing on anything that painted a negative picture of Ti and Do and their class was shown in how David (Alxody) during one of his two visits to his vehicle’s family was videoed twisting a phone cord in his fingers. Perhaps it was nervous energy as he was subject to scrutiny from his brother(s) around then, but perhaps he always had some nervous energy. We all knew he had a lot of force. The point is why spend any time on that when there are hundreds of things to focus on that could directly inform the listener to more of the truth about Ti and Do and their group.

With all this said, I do still appreciate hearing all of what they found to put together into this series and I know the pressure of being a somewhat mainstream media organizations that needs to attract advertisers and not upset certain people in high places is enormous to negotiate and of course the status quo thinking is overwhelmingly against even considering for a second that Ti and Do could have been exactly who they said they were.

 

 

Pineapple Street Episode 5-The Tape from DO to Terrie – TI’s “daughter” comments by Sawyer

November 18, 2017
Here is the link to all the Episodes: https://www.heavensgate.show/
(Just scroll down to Episode 5)
Here are my responses:
The host saying this tape was “kept a secret for almost a year”, I guess from the student body, is misinformation, any more than the president is required to share everything he does and says with the general public or the head of a corporation or of a family or in the military. DO wasn’t keeping it secret from us. That’s a spin. Do and Ti taught us all to operate as a crew. We had departments and tasks and one department didn’t need to know what another department was doing. The teacher even of a cult doesn’t owe the students anything. We must remember if we want to see the whole truth, that each of us joined by our own choices and stayed in the group for as long or short as we wanted to so this tape was not a secret – it was simply information we didn’t all need.
The Host said DO was “less a prophet and more a lonely, sad, scared human being…” – another spin to even use the fact that DO showed his deep caring for TI and for Teri against him, similar with the way Episode four portrayed TI as a hypocrite for showing care towards Terri. A prophet is someone who “speaks inspired by God,(the highest source we can imagine)” so DO wasn’t any less of a performer of that prophet task by speaking honestly about his feelings. Saying he was lonely in one context has it’s application because as he said he had grown to depend on TI. Yes, sad he was, though he didn’t linger in that vibration and scared as well but it didn’t stop him from quickly getting back on the horse, so to speak.
Jesus evidenced being sad and scared at times:
I remind for those that think there is any truth to the Jesus story,  He was quite sad sounding “weeping in the garden” after he learned he needed to complete the task he knew he came to do by laying down his life (he learned on what became called the Transfiguration mountain visit), more or less committing suicide since he knew well from many evidences that the high priest of the Pharisaic sect sought to kill him – they tried to stone him a number of times because he was supplanting their authority over the Jewish people. It was in those historic records that he wept and asked in his prayer to his Father, who was in the heaven’s at that time, if that “cup” (task) could be removed from him, though then accepted the task and mustered the strength to perform it. Jesus also felt alone on the cross when he couldn’t feel his Older Member’s presence. I witnessed DO several years after Ti left feeling “underwater” – not feeling Ti’s presence with him (though from outside her vehicle, so at a greater distance as well) when we moved from Boulder to Atlanta, GA in one of three times where we lived east of the Mississippi river. Both Ti and Do always felt they felt most in tune with their heavenly Father (Ti’s Older Member) when they were located west of the Mississippi River but at times had instruction to travel east of it.
It’s not only humans that feel things. Members of the Next Level still feel. They can be happy and they can be sad. They are not robots however they don’t have the same kinds of things they feel happy and sad about. The same with “fun”. Members of the Next Level have fun but it’s not the same kind of fun that horses have when they run around a field.
To DO’s students, their exit by laying down their human bodies lives was not a tragedy and it doesn’t have to remain a tragedy for anyone affected in a difficult sad way, but they will have to seek their Heavenly Father’s help or the highest source they can imagine to begin to feel that, though I know sometimes that’s easier said than done, as I can attest to when I “fell”.
Ti’s dying wish to not tell Terri about her vehicle’s death:
Terrie indicated that she didn’t believe what DO said about his following Ti’s dying wishes to not tell “them” (Ti’s vehicles family). But there is a lot of evidence that DO was correct when he said this. A big case in point; TI lost her eye approx. 2 years before her vehicle expired from liver cancer on June 19, 1985 and TI chose not to tell Terrie even though it seems she wrote some letters to Terrie after the time of her eye surgery. Isn’t that very strong evidence that Ti didn’t want to tell her. I can imagine why in both cases. What good was it going to do for Ti to tell Terrie? It would just stir up more anxiety in Terrie. It was showing care for Terrie.  Ti could have visited Terrie then and many times as we spent close to 5 years or more before Ti left her vehicle, living in Texas to include Dallas for several years and Houston for perhaps a half a year and Austin for maybe a year and San Antonio and Kerrville for about a year and Amarillo for a big part of  a year. I think that was kind of Ti because of how that would have re-stimulated their bond and it would have had to be broken again and again since TI was 100% in support of her mission. Sending letters without any return address or phone number was TI’s way to try to give Terrie a little comfort.
Where the host said, in regard to Ti’s eye removal, “…how everyone in the group could see the tumors on her face and the scars it left”. That is a 100% fabricated lie to state that as a fact. The facts are and I hope someone investigates this, if it’s possible, is that one couldn’t tell at all that her eye was removed. At first she wore a patch over that eye, that is until she had a glass eye made and there were no scars I could see and I did see Ti many times up close (but perhaps mostly that was before the eye removal, when we had the Yeast Lab, as she’d come into that lab to answer questions). But I can’t remember seeing her glass eye up close but maybe that’s because I’m not the most observant person or my focus when she was talking to me or us in person or in a meeting, I was so focused on listening to her that I didn’t pay any attention to her vehicle. I admit I was most always in awe of TI and of DO.
I trust DO’s feelings about Terrie feeling something subconsciously. When something is subconscious it’s not conscious. Now I know I’m bias in that way but it’s from experiences seeing things Ti and Do said that I questioned and then later seeing them the way they saw it.
Terrie was told she would be given their materials:
They did give Terrie the materials. It just ended up being the same way they gave the world their materials, via their book and web site. For all those years before the Book and web site, Ti and Do carried around a camera they were given by someone to videotape the pickup when it happened. We carried around that camera for years in storage and other materials. Frank (Andody) should be able to verify this, and that every year or so they tried to put all their affairs in order the same way they did when they finally left which people don’t know much about but included giving people certain things, cars, van’s, money, etc. I wasn’t on the “purser” task except on rare occasion as a check partner so I don’t know the list of things they did to not leave a mess of those affairs at their exit, though they didn’t know when they would exit and how. They taught and demonstrated “covering their bets,” so to speak. So no doubt Ti and Do planned on giving things to Terrie so that was an honest intention when he said it but then things changed and DO wasn’t responsible to update Terrie to those changes even though it did still happen in another way.
As far as his being in touch with Terri like he said, that could have also happened but after they left or even while still around, though not by anyone in their visible physical bodies, is one way to look at it that is quite realistic to consider but I know sounds crazy to many to think possible. It’s the idea of the reality of what used to be called guardian angels, workers from the Next Level who are physical but can change the vibration of their physicality to render themselves invisible to humans and human technologies. I could go into more about that but I won’t right now since I’m always so long winded. Plus when DO said that he was trying to comfort her and I don’t doubt he fully thought he would but again his first priority was to keep Their classroom in forward motion and He had a crew of unseen helpers just like Jesus described having. Next Level members are not about their “self”. They all operate with a crew minded mentality so saying he would be in contact would be equally honest if some of his crew fulfilled it, whether Terri was aware of it or not.
As Terrie recognized when TI and DO first returned to visit her, I think perhaps in 1973 and/or 1974 or so, the mother she knew had changed. I think Terrie said her voice changed. I would suggest that when more of her Next Level Mind came into her vehicle she became less and less the person and mother she was, just like what happened to Jesus. When Jesus was notified that his mother and brothers wanted to visit with him, he said, “who is my mother and brother but those who…” – are the students in his classroom – they are his new family. TI selected the name TI and in that last letter even signed it, M which could be seen as fully consistent with that, without stirring up more anxiety than necessary so I presume out of kindness or perhaps she always signed Terrie’s letters that way.
As far as Dncody and Lvvody saying they would be back and then not coming back. I can only guess that they might not have been instructed to say they would be back or DO changed his mind and I don’t know how long it was after that, that DO sent the audio tape but DO was operating even then on what guidance he was still getting from Ti while outside his vehicle.
On Frank’s saying “we were shocked”, if I recall his saying “we” that doesn’t speak for me as I think I remember saying in one of the interviews I gave the Pineapple Street crew. I was not shocked. I know it sounds like I was dumbstruck the whole time in the classroom but none of the things that happened, the changes in understanding and all had any affect on my commitment to Ti and Do and nor did I have an emotional attachment to Ti and Do nor my classmates then especially but nor was I conscious about doubting anything or if I did, I ran that thought off and it was never a major deal for me.
Yes, as Terri said, Jesus is about love but it’s love for one’s Heavenly Father that was the First Greatest Commandment and most applicable when they are incarnate and the way we can show that love to our Heavenly Father when they are not incarnate as Jesus taught was to show our love for our neighbors in the same way we love ourselves, the Second Greatest Commandment that Moses taught as well and that Ti and Do demonstrated as well and did so way beyond words.
When DO converted his suffering to a positive recognizing that it was his task to complete the task without Ti’s close physical partnership he new Ti’s exit was right. I didn’t know at the time and only learned it when I dug into the entire Book of Revelation, that Ti’s exit ahead of the rest of the class was in the plan.
DO says TI is the Revelation 12 “Woman” and how the “flood” of negativity “burned out” her vehicle (eye and body):
Ti and Do were never scripture quoters though they knew them on a deep level I learned later. However around 1985 before Ti left her vehicle he had us bring bibles to a meeting that Ti didn’t sit in on which was very rare. He told us that the Revelation 12:1 “Woman” was referring to TI. Based on that after I left when they helped me re-awaken some, as I dug through most every word of the Revelation, I saw how every verse in Chapter 12 could be seen as directly correlating with what I knew and observed about Ti and Do in their relationship of “Father to Son”, etc. So Ti was hit with a flood of negativity that was a persecution of her and she lost her eye to that battle the same way in a sense we can have a physical condition because of a mental battle we are dealing with whether consciously or not, which Ti and Do also taught about. Then the woman is “helped by the earth” by the “earth opening her mouth” to swallow up the flood. By her vehicle dying the flood went into the “grave” because she was not in a human vehicle that could be affected by that negative flood of thoughts and feelings against her.
Also regarding Their original belief that they would be killed and resurrected – rise again from the grave, that too was 100% fulfilled when one knows the details and really examines the definition choices to the terms used and how in the translations they make some assumptions one would never be able to see unless they got the truth from belief in who Ti and Do are/were. And I’m not saying it couldn’t have happened exactly as the prophecy describes and as Ti and Do thought at first. But this entire project is for the Next Level an experiment and what makes it an experiment is not knowing exactly what the human responses will be to them because they designed us to have free will, so certain things can go in a number of ways. For instance the 3 and a 1/2 days is also said as a time, times and a partial time. Even so Ti and Do did feel their mission was dead for 3 days when the news broke about DO’s felony conviction, etc. that by the way was dropped by the plaintiff the rental car company but became a political football but that resulted in DO being seen as a “thief” just like in prophecy “thief in the night” where night represented the way them come “undercover” invisible – in secret – incarnate. And instead of “kill” a far more accurate translation for Greek “apokteino” would be “separate by dying themselves”. Ti by taking her task that as DO said “wore out her vehicle” was choosing to let that take out her vehicle, giving her vehicles life to her Next Level task. DO and Crew did the same but by instigating their exit directly as for them it was also a test of faith and commitment to DO. And Ti was the one who instructed us to make our commitment to DO.
My book is full of so much evidence that they were exactly who they said they were that it’s unbelievably believable. The book is found for free on my blog:

No Real Comparison of Jonestown suicides with Heaven’s Gate

October 27, 2017

At the end is the link to an article that compared Jonestown to Heaven’s Gate that I show really has little to no genuine equivalent comparison other than both their groups membership physically dying by ingesting drugs under the leadership of one leader. Based on that one could equate the president of a country as a dangerous cult leader who stimulates their soldiers to give their lives which I know to many seems preposterous to compare but is it really?

On the surface these two groups can be barely compared and I don’t doubt that from a membership prospective there were some tiny likenesses but other than that there is no comparison except in the use of poison to end their vehicles lives.

To follow are  some of the many huge differences that reveal this comparison as a typical Luciferian Soul “facsimile” production of what Ti and Do were doing. And it’s interesting how some of those who initially joined with Ti and Do in 1975, from the first meeting in North Hollywood around April 21st thought that they (Ti and Do) were promoting suicide both literally and figuratively which was not the case literally then, even if one did define suicide by it’s human definition as self stimulated death of one’s body. Figuratively speaking Ti and Do’s group were more realistically ending their human lifestyle entirely where in the Jones camp humanness was not changed at all really according to the evidence. Some of what I’m saying about the fear of suicide came from Joan Culpepper (more of an infiltrator into the group than a follower as she stated). Plus there was a relative of a student who testified her fear of their committing suicide in 1975 (about three years before the Jonestown event) that was documented in the book “UFO Missionaries Extraordinary.” Here are some snippets of that book on this blog:

https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2016/11/28/ufo-missionaries-extraordinary/

So here are the key differences that are major in the Jonestown People Temples group that there was not even a shade of indicator of in the Heaven’s Gate group:

1. Children were forced to drink the poison cocktail. One can see and hear it in the video with Jones preaching to do it while people are crying. Ti and Do didn’t allow children in their group.

2. If only one person disagreed and was forced to ingest the poison cocktail the entire idea could not be compared with Heaven’s Gate group. This was evidenced in the Jonestown story by video testimony and survivors. Some people who fled that last meeting were hunted down by gunmen. People were held at gunpoint to ingest the poison according to the records. In the Heaven’s Gate group people were challenged to leave throughout and 19 of the initial 100 members in 1976 were separated from the larger group and Ti and Do said they didn’t make the “first cut” on who they thought could accomplish the task of overcoming all their humanness.

3. Murder of the congressman at the airport as they attempted to leave was also a huge indicator of how different Jonestown was from Heaven’s Gate. The records indicate that Jim Jones was stimulated to take this action to escape prosecution when he learned that some in his group had passed notes to the congressman saying that they wanted to get out.

4. The People’s temple was a human social and political group. Heaven’s Gate was not social nor political. Spirituality seemed to be mostly absent from the documentaries I watched but if it was a big part was not any different from other spiritual and/or religious groups that had political and community support before they moved to Guyana. Heaven’s Gate wasn’t religious or spiritual in that context. The only reason they are considered religious is because it is through the man made worldly religions that the records of the Next Level’s incarnate activity was passed on and because the nature of the information was about Mind – “the character of the soul” as DO once defined Mind, that he taught was synonymous with the word, “spirit”.

5. Members of the People’s Temple did not leave everything behind to join with Jones – mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, children, houses, etc. (as Jesus taught some of his disciples had done (i.e. Mat 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. ) and that all Ti and Do’s students were instructed to do (though there was no way to verify that any one student had done but it was talked about as having an “ace in the hole” for those that didn’t. However I read one report that indicated Ti and Do turned away at least one person who was considering joining with them. She had children and it was reported that Ti and Do said she shouldn’t follow with them at that time and that perhaps she might follow later (See UFO Missionaries Extraordinary)).

Jones and his group were a human organization with human family values and human behaviors that they took with them to Guyana, including relationships among members and sexuality and punishments for non-compliance. Ti and Do’s group members did not continue human relationships with anyone back in the world nor with one another when some joined who had such a relationship. (I was one of those who joined with my former partner I had lived with for 5 years and for the first ten years had zero communication with my vehicle’s family back in New York. The only relationships Ti and Do’s student had were as fellow crew members. There was no chit chatting or gossip or shooting the breeze or having best friends or confidants or “familiarity” among certain members (though we still enjoyed one anthers camaraderie and companionship and friendship and personalities and helpfulness (within the behaviors and ways Ti and Do taught that are most synopsized in the lists referred to as the “Seventeen Steps” and the “Major and Lessor Offenses” – that are in the Heaven’s Gate Book and posted on the Heavensgate.com web site and posted on my blog:

https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2016/11/14/ti-and-dos-major-and-lessor-offense-list/

6. The idea that the Jonestown people were forming a utopia on earth was totally absent with the Heaven’s Gate group. According to Ti and Do’s teachings there was no “heaven on earth” in that way, at least not during the current civilization. They did say in the future, if humans showed the Next Level that they had evolved to be civilized – like not choosing to shoot at beings from other worlds, for example then the earth could be made into a Next Level Base aka a Heavenly Body where Members of the Next Level could be seen coming and going but still would not live among humans. They talked about how there were other planets where human equivalent beings were growing in ways totally unlike in the earth’s human kingdom because humans were somewhat unique because of the presence of the Luciferian space alien fallen angels they permitted to become catalysts for the growth of souls. There could be another planet but it would only be equivalent to earth if some human equivalent to Luciferians were also present but they mostly felt there wasn’t another such earth/human equivalent planet. (Some of this can be seen talked about in the Blackhawk tapes and a little in the book UFO Missionaries Extraordinary). For the Blackhawk tapes one can search my Youtube channel named: 3SPM for “Blackhawk” and find three posts of those audios made into videos.

With Ti and Do’s Heaven’s Gate group the idea from the start was that we were all going to exit the earth, always potentially with our bodies but certainly as Souls for those who qualified. I doubt there were any qualifications to join with Jim Jones (but I could be wrong about that, but if there were I’d bet they were human qualification characteristics (humanitarianism) verses Above Human characteristic qualifications), many of which are in the records that came through a number of what became religions.

7. There were no abuses in Ti and Do’s group. There were never any sexual misconduct that I witnessed and none that were reported by the hundreds of followers over the years who dropped out. There was no punishment for not living by the “procedures” (rules) except for being sent out of the group. Some were sent out of the group and a number of those returned in unusual ways as there were only two “recruitment” periods from 1975 to 1976 and from 1993 (via media) and for about 9 months face to face in meetings around the US and Canada in 1994 and then via internet media by the presence of the Heaven’s Gate web site and postings to Usenet groups that one person joined from and was among the 38 who layed down their lives.

(By the way, “recruitment” was nothing like many groups I’ve both read about and experienced, like the Moonies for instance. We never stood on corners to sell flowers or anything else with the hope of drawing people to our meetings with an offer of food and then once there those who came would learn they needed to sit through their presentation before they’d be fed. It’s sort of the model of the Salvation Army. The entire “recruitment” effort was simply putting up posters on storefronts and bulletin boards in New age centers and health food stores and on telephone poles around the town where we planned a public meeting. Sometimes we got some free press and/or radio and/or TV coverage. People would come to the meeting and listen for a short time and take some questions and then were told if anyone wanted more information to stay after in which case sometimes even some who though they might want to join us were faced with details that dissuaded them. Nothing was ever hidden and there were not carrots put before a person’s eyes, so to speak. However, one might think the idea that they were joining with true Representatives from the Kingdom of Heaven could be a carrot but Ti and Do and their Students didn’t need to have more members so had no interest in cajoling anyone.)

8. Plus the way DO and crew laid down their lives was never rehearsed as it was with the Jonestown group. In the Jonestown group they had a number of rehearsals but the members of the community weren’t told they were rehearsals according to one or more survivor reports. People drank the drink that they were told had poison in it and nothing happened to them, so that became a conditioning to the act. DO did ask on several or more occasions each member of the group if they had any reservations about taking their exit into their own hands by drinking the phenobarbital mixture. One such time was when I was still in the group in September of 1994 that included over a dozen new (or returning) members. From that person by person question one new student said they had reservations and left the group the next day. Another who was a former member named Arrody left shortly after that for the same reason I read reported. One can think that too was conditioning but if anything the conditioning was to filter out those who weren’t clearly in favor of taking the action, the same kind of filtering that had occurred by many examples over the 19 years I witnessed that can be seen in this blog post:

https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2017/10/20/pineapple-press-heavens-gate-podcast-comments-by-sawyer/

I’m not proposing that the Jonestown event as a Luciferian facsimile attempt to discredit Ti and Do’s authenticity meant that the people in the Jonestown event were necessarily casualties or their their souls and/or Spirits were not kept by the Next Level because of their willingness to sacrifice their human lives in this world. I don’t say that without evidence from DO. For instance, after watching the murder of the David Koresh group, the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas I recall DO saying that he wondered if his students would stick to their convictions the way they did, though not condoning those who used violence. To me that meant that some of those could have been seen by the Next Level as doing the best they could do. The point is, even if someone is murdered or kills themselves we don’t know how that Soul or Spirit will be judged by the Next Level. That judgement starts with the way each of us believe and act while living. We judge ourselves and then when it’s all done the Next Level salvages those they deem to still have the capacity to advance towards Next Level membership in a future opportunity. Like DO said as the 3rd Type of individual who would be “saved” from the recycling, they might have never heard of Ti and Do but separated from their worldliness in their own way. Do can be seen speaking of this in his video, “Last Chance to Evacuate Earth Before It’s Recycled” a video that was transcribed and found on my blog:

https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/last-chance-to-evacuate-earth-before-its-recycled-transcript-from-dos-videotape/

Here is the article that stimulated this blog post response:

Jonestown and Heaven’s Gate were supposed to be utopias. How did it go so wrong?
When a dream becomes dystopia. By Amos Barshad
https://www.thefader.com/2017/10/26/jonestown-and-heavens-gate-were-supposed-to-be-utopias-how-did-it-go-so-wrong

 

Pineapple Street Heaven’s Gate Episode 1 Podcast re: Doubt in Ti and Do’s Classroom, Tests as a “Filter”

October 20, 2017

Below is the access information for the Pineapple Street Podcast Series Heaven’s Gate and followed by Sawyers comments to each episode:

Pineapple Press Podcast Series – Heaven’s Gate
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/stitcher/heavens-gate
twitter: @heavensgateshow
facebook /heavensgateshow

Episode one: The Seekers

Sawyer’s comments:

Franks statement used in a misleading way and the background re: having doubts in the classroom and how students were constantly “tested” on whether they wanted to be in the classroom or not, as they were always free to leave:

In episode one of the Heaven’s Gate podcast, at the 8 minute mark, the host starts to go over a description of what some of the 38 students said in the exit videos they made days before laying down their human lives. After students Mllody and Jwnody’s clips are played, the host says, “Some may even have had doubts at the end” and they play a clip that was Frank, who was Andody in the Heaven’s Gate “Classroom”, who dropped out in 1993, about a year before I did and has told me on several occasions over the years that he thought DO diverged from what Ti had taught that led to leading the class into suicide because of his problem with his homosexuality, if I recall correctly. This opinion can be linked to Robert Balch’s writings and conclusion that I believe I’ve read from Benjamin Zeller as well.)

So in episode 1 when talk about the exit statements played starting around the 8 minute mark, Frank’s clip said, “It just felt, that conflict of, I’m scared shitless but I’m going to do this anyway because I don’t know what else to do”.

I hadn’t heard Franks voice in over 15 years and it changed a great deal from how I remembered it, so at first I wondered who in the exit video’s said that. I wondered if I missed it somehow though I’ve listened to them all maybe three times over the last 20 years. It didn’t make any sense to me, the wording, nor that DO would have someone in the class that was that filled with that much doubt about what they were about to do. Here’s why I say that:

Doubts in the Classroom and Events that became FILTERING TESTS of who would STAND UP for their commitment to TI and DO and their Overcoming of Humanness Process:

Here is a brief overview of the events that led up to many leaving the classroom – because of having doubts. I am calling them both “tests” and a type of filter. Because they were tests, even though they weren’t always presented that way, if someone was “on the fence” with their full commitment, they served to face us with getting off that fence, one way or the other, leave the classroom or stay on and become stronger for doing so.

(By the way, doubts were expected but learning how to recognize them and counteract them, and not give them energy, extinguish them was part of the overcoming process that was a self administered washing of our brains from their humanness via TI and DO’s instructions).

I’m starting from when the self stimulated exit was first brought up directly as there were times before that, when it surfaced indirectly that I’ll add later:

1) In August of 1994 after 9 months of giving public meetings, where we nearly doubled our numbers from the original 24 who had survived, which was the Second and Last “Wave” of public interface in 18 years, DO said in a meeting with all present, something very close to, “it seems that we will need to exit our vehicles by our own hands”.

A couple weeks before then we had a meeting where DO provided us with a poster to use in what would become our last public meeting, for me, as an overseer of one of the groups, was near Portsmouth, New Hampshire, which is when the idea of self exiting our vehicles was first introduced. Here is the poster:

https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2016/11/14/poster-used-in-aug-1994-entitled-the-shedding-of-our-borrowed-human-bodies-may-be-required/

(It’s in the Heaven’s Gate Book – Section 6 – Page 11)

After that meeting with DO we all traveled back to California and some of us resumed the IT jobs we had with Subscriber Computing, Inc. in Laguna Hills, California that we gave up during the 9 months on the road giving meetings.

-Then in September of 1994 while I was still in the group, DO held a meeting in San Clemente, where DO had rented a warehouse, where most of the class was living where he detailed the exit method of drinking a strong barbiturate mixture and asked every individual one by one around the room if they “had any reservations” about acting on this planned exit method. I recall one new student expressing reservations but learned that another did after that meeting. They both left in the next couple days. Carlan (Crlody) is witness to this.

One of those two students who left in 1994 who had reservations about the exit method had just joined that year and another who was Arrody had re-joined in 1994 having initially joined in 1975-6 and had left the class either right before or right after Ti left her vehicle. I don’t know why he left that first time but it wasn’t long after we received the option to listen to music for pleasure (Classical, Gilbert and Sullivan and Kitaro) was discontinued because Arrody was spending too much time listening and getting into it too much, when there were all sorts of ways to help the forward motion of the craft. It wasn’t meant to be a favorite pastime and most in the class were not exercising that option as far as I knew, but I had a full time day job as I think Arrody also had. I think I recall that “in-crafters” – those without jobs in the world, would listen to music as background at times during the day. So perhaps that was a test for Arrody, whether he could choose to listen in the way a member of the Next Level would, so could have been part of the reason he left or perhaps it was a coincidence.

Backing up many years, from the start Ti and Do, by following their step wise instructions from their Older Members, seemed to put things into motion that acted to test our commitment and thus filter out those didn’t rise to the requirements to stay in the classroom – those they didn’t think were ready to go the distance of totally overcoming all their humanness. They put things into motion well before they knew exactly what was to come, (as they always said they were only given instructions a step ahead of their student body because how and when new “steps” were instigated was based on the free will choices of each student), well before they considered “laying down their and/or our vehicles, (aka suicide). It was interesting to watch this for 19 years.

To follow are the primary examples of how they employed “tests”, that I am aware of. TI and DO expressed that when they received instructions sometimes they knew it would be a test for some and sometimes they warned us that it was a test as can be heard in the Blackhawk audio tapes posted on my Youtube channel: 3SPM :  (Here is Blackhawk tape 1 of 3):

They didn’t conjure up tests. They received instructions they recognized would be tests for some – the instigation of certain things to think about and/or do, that many times would challenge us all, though they said none were more than we could handle – if we sought to employ their help – the ways they taught to combat the negatives that became the criteria for the test.

For instance one time we moved the entire camp of around 30 tents and after we were almost done setting up, they gave instructions to move again that same day to a very short distance away. I remember feeling exhausted and wondering why, but didn’t let that thought linger. I wasn’t conscious that I was responding negatively to what they were providing. It’s only looking back and recalling it that I remember that negative response. None the less, it was a minor negativity for me and I said nothing and I didn’t think poorly about Ti and Do or question being with them at all. It was mostly because I didn’t want to do the work of moving the tents again. So I don’t really count this as one of the tests in the list because it was small a test, yet who knows how others felt.

2) The first big test for some came when Ti and Do came to know that the “Demonstration” was cancelled or postponed.

Here is what DO wrote in “Statement I” that was mailed to people that stimulated their first meeting invitation that DO wrote while in jail for 6 months waiting for the St. Louis prosecutor to make a case against  him (since charges had been dropped by the Rental Car Company), that describes the “Demonstration”:

There are two individuals here now who have also come from that next kingdom, incarnate as humans, awakened, and will soon demonstrate the same proof of overcoming death. They are “sent” from that kingdom by the “Father” to bear the same truth that was Jesus’. This is like a repeat performance, except this time by two (a man and a woman) to restate the truth Jesus bore, restore its accurate meaning, and again show that any individual who seeks that kingdom will find it through the same process. This “re-statement” or demonstration will happen within months. The two who are the “actors” in this “theatre” are in the meantime doing all they can to relate this truth as accurately as possible so that when their bodies recover from their “dead” state (resurrection) and they leave (UFO’s) those left behind will have clearly understood the formula.

Those who can believe this process and do it will be “lifted up” individually and “saved” from death – literally. If you seek those two while they are here they will gladly fill you in on the details and assist those who wish to follow in this “path.”

It is interesting that even though the demonstration of death overcome was not physically visible, I later realized when I first started to analyze this history with regard to the Revelation chapter 11 prophecy of the Two Witnesses that they were first to be “subdued”, stated as “overcome” in most translations with a time period in between when they would then “separate by dying themselves” the best translation of the Greek phrase “apokteino auto” most translated in various Bibles as “kill them”, but where “auto” also  means “themselves” and apokteino is as a compound word where “apo” as a prefix means “separate” or “exit” or “take away from” (their Soul taken away from their vehicle).

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies (shall lie) in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Some people translate apokteino as “kill (or even just) “destroy” or “ruin”, “in any way”, not just by dying. Ti and Do did feel “ruined” as DO stated in the booklet he wrote entitled, “’88 Update – The UFO Two and their Crew”:

Also the words “dead bodies” did not appear in the manuscripts. The Greek word, “ptoma”  from the alternate of “pipto” = “a ruin” but from “peto, kin to petomai provides the “idea of alighting; to fall (literally or figuratively); fall down or light on. There are only two other usages of “ptoma” besides the three usages here in Rev 11. One of those two translates it to “carcase” but can just as easily be ruin:

Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles ((from Greek aer (an eagle from it’s wind like flight))) be gathered together.

Here is the same information in Lukes gospel that has a different Greek word “soma” used to translate into “body”:

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body ((soma=body)), thither will the eagles ((from Greek aer (an eagle from it’s wind like flight))) be gathered together.

So this “dead body” translation would be more accurately “ruined body” or just ruin which is what happened to Ti and Do when the national news came out and told the world by Walter Cronkite that these Two were charlatans and were felons from Texas so couldn’t possibly be from outer space taking people to heaven on a spacecraft. When Ti and Do saw that news they both thought their “mission was dead”. They were in Las Vegas at the time and after 3 days felt they received instructions from their Older Member (from a spacecraft) to tell the students they felt this was the shooting down in the streets and then continue on with meetings, which they did and then  on April 21st Ti called a halt to meetings and neither held another public meeting to complete their 1260 days of prophecy speaking.

Then after the period of time said as 3 1/2 days, where “days” is equally translated as a time period, also said in Rev 12 as a “time, times and a half a time” which I can say a  lot about, that  amounts to two such periods that were designed to be flexible as the Next Level doesn’t know exactly  what humans will choose to do when they hear the information for their in the flesh (incarnate) Representatives, they “exit by dying themselves” – apokteino auto.

So continuing on with what DO wrote about that time:

One of the hardest things that Ti and Do had to do concerned the “demonstration” (referred to in Statement I). The students had been told that while they were out holding meetings they would hear of the demonstration, and that would be the signal to stop holding meetings and come running. It was rumored for a while that the demonstration was going to happen in San Francisco. Ti and Do were in Las Vegas when the TV network news programs all broke the story about the two. Now because of the kind of publicity that had come out across the country, climaxed by the networks, Ti and Do felt that further meetings were pretty hopeless and people had already made up their minds about how ridiculous this all was. Ti and Do felt that the demonstration was still the one thing that could change that. However, they grieved literally for days, feeling like they had been shot down by the media and the mission was dead.

They received instruction to not walk into a physical demonstration but rather to know that the “killing in the street” of the two witnesses had occurred at the hands of the media. However, they felt like this was a cop-out or a “chickening out” interpretation of the one act that was the basis of their whole following. So, with much embarrassment, they called their students together, convinced that without a physical demonstration, their students would have every right to call them charlatans. Much to their surprise, the students, almost without exception, accepted the interpretation and said, “OK then, where do we go from here”?

Ti and Do still felt that to continue was probably one of their greatest tests. Nevertheless, they got up, kicked the dust off their tired feet, and continued with the instruction to hold meetings a while longer. They then became more organized in their groups and more systematic with their communication between cities. All in all, the meetings continued for a little over ten months.

So the literal  physical ascension of their bodies into a spacecraft was laid out in such a way in prophecy that it could have happened exactly as described or could have equally pertained to the physical “soul body” that they always said was growing inside of our human bodies – comparing it to a caterpillar growing a new body inside it’s cocoon/chrysalis condition that would then fly away, but in that case might not be visible to the human eye, thus another “test” of whether or not we can see it because of wanting to understand it and thus being given that understanding by the Next Level – “eyes to see, ears to hear”. They spoke about that growing physical body at that point in 1975 and thereafter as “body changes”.

Thus this was the first big test as DO wrote and I guess at least one He knew of dropped out at that point, indicated by his saying “almost without exception”:

Much to their surprise, the students, almost without exception, accepted the interpretation and said, “OK then, where do we go from here”?

re: what Ti and Do always described as “body changes” is shown possible by Jesus’ example of healing and demonstrating his new body that came from the old one. Christians refer to Jesus body after he healed his body from it’s dead state as having a “glorified body.” Jesus went on to demonstrate his new body’s capabilities – appearing and disappearing, and defying gravity as shown in his calming of the waves on the sea and when he exited by physically ascending to be received by a “cloud” (Covering). Jesus said that  he was not a spirit:

Luk 24:34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
Luk 24:35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Luk 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
Luk 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
Luk 24:43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

TI and DO told us that they felt Jesus completed his “change over” at the time described in the records as the Transfiguration:

Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Mar 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
Mar 9:3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
Mar 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Luke adds a key piece not found in either Matthew or Mark’s account, showing that these two “men” as Luke referred to Elias and Moses were delivering a message at least one of them understood. In other words this was when Jesus was given instructions to “lay his body down” of his own volition which could be equated with a type of suicide as he knew well the Jewish leadership hated him and had tried a number of times to stone him and were shown later to have conspired for a way to capture him and have the Romans kill him. While addressing this, here is where Jesus directly says he was going to die on his Father’s instruction and that the humans were not taking his life from him. He was laying it down as the show of the greatest love one could show another, in this case his students, the sheep given to him by his Father to shepherd?

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Continuing on with when he received that instruction while on the Transfiguration mount:

Luk 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

Mar 9:5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mar 9:6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
Mar 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Mar 9:8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
Mar 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
Mar 9:10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
Mar 9:11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Mar 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
Mar 9:13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

Ti and Do never dropped the prospect that they could do the Demonstration in the way they first thought might happen and DO never dropped the idea that they could board the spacecraft with their human vehicles, which is part of why I think they took out Abduction Insurance and packed travel bags they kept alongside when they laid down their vehicles to die.

I don’t doubt that TI could have healed them all or for some if their human vehicles had changed over enough could have healed themselves from the ingestion of the strong barbiturate, which shows some potential in:

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Yet TI and DO taught that such “miracles” are not given to those that still have a chance to graduate into Next Level membership with their current human vehicle as a big part of overcoming was not having that kind of proof because then the Mind/Spirit has not grown enough to recognize the truth, what is most real. That’s where the idea of “faith” comes from as “the evidence of things unseen”. (Faith today for some has become a largely distorted idea that looks a lot more like wishful thinking or as Hope and “blind faith”)

3) How the 19 were separated out of the larger classroom

-In the late fall of 1976 Ti and Do sent 19 individuals who had joined the group during the first public meeting period from 1975 to 1976, out of the group and told those who remained, of which I was one that “you made the first cut”. This came after months living outdoors in the Veedavou rustic camping area in the Medicine Bow National forest east of Laramie, Wyoming, where overcoming began after the first round of public meetings where we had about 100 student members. While there TI and DO became aware that some were still smoking pot and having sex. They held a group meeting and laid down the law that these were unacceptable behaviors in their classroom. Some (Drrody and Stlody) who were part of those 19 found their way back into the group years later by seemingly coincidental circumstances while we were living in trailers in Amarillo, Texas.

4) In about 1977, Ti and Do held a meeting where Ti said to the group, “you all need to give us your will”.

TI told DO privately that he told us about after she left her vehicle that she thought saying that might result in “losing half the class”. As it turned out for one reason or another, that’s largely what happened.

I already thought that’s what I was doing but I’d bet to some who were on the fence of being in this group it could have been a shocker.

5) The test TI said to DO felt like she “had egg on her face” because of – the planned exit via a spacecraft that didn’t happen

Ti and Do were pressed by some students in 1975 and perhaps thereafter for when we would get picked up by the UFO (They always preferred “spacecraft”, which they always taught was equivalent to a “cloud of light” in the Records) and they at first said it could be months but then finally said, “no more than 5 years, which they later regretted saying.

(However, I have learned that even those things they regretted or felt were mistakes were made into positives for our development, in other words they weren’t “mistakes” from our perspective but part of the program to instill our own flexibility of how that Next Level are not static teachers – when the handwriting was on the wall – when they got new ideas or instructions that came as ideas many times, they didn’t hesitate to deliver them to us, even though they knew sometimes it was changing what they had said before and how that would test our resolve. One of their sayings was: “Change is the name of the game”).

But then in about 1980 Ti said we needed to prepare to be picked up and we were in Boerne, Texas, where we were still living in tents, which was on top of a cave called “Cave Without a Name.”

So we stayed up all night waiting for the spacecraft to come and it never showed up. Ti said nothing about it then but after Ti left her vehicle in 1985 DO told us TI told him at that time that she felt she had “egg on her face” because of that. But after that didn’t happen at least one student left the group. She was Jssody, who had been Alxody’s girlfriend before they joined in 1975. Others left around that time as well including Echody, Rkkody and Wndody but in each case I didn’t know why they left as in most cases then they left in the middle of the night, I suspect so they wouldn’t have to face Ti and Do. Rkkody and Wndody ended up rejoining again when they had the option. I wasn’t privy to how that happened. For me, the fact that a spacecraft didn’t come that night had no affect on me.

Just like it had no affect on me when they cancelled (or postponed the “demonstration” – being killed and resurrecting). I say postponed because they never knew whether that would still happen or not. That’s seen in the book UFO Missionaries Extraordinary by Hayden Hewes and Brad Steiger that was written about them. (Parts of this book are posted on this blog).

6) Ti and Do gave us instructions to think about what we might want in the world.

Starting during the later years when TI was still incarnate, TI and DO would periodically have us stop whatever we were doing and find someplace in the “craft” (house) where we could be by ourselves and make a point to open the door to whether or not there was something in the world we still wanted to do or someone we wanted to be with. Ti and Do said they too did this at times as an exercise they equated with descending into a pit, because they came to hate remaining in the human kingdom and compared it to being in a snake pit. The “process” instruction they’d given us from the start was to literally block out all thoughts of the past or such ideas, but during these times they wanted us to open those doors. That usually lasted for less than a half hour when they would let us know time was up and they said, then forget about that.

However no doubt some might have a hard time closing that door again, that is if they had such a door to open to anything in the world that still attracted them. I never had any thoughts during those times of wanting anything in the world. I simply thought about things like my vehicles family and playing music again but pertaining to me, I hadn’t really left that much behind to join nor had I started up much in the world to attract me back. I don’t know if anyone left because of opening those doors but it is still a big indication that Ti and Do were not wanting anyone to be with them that felt that draw (that they didn’t want to overcome), yet I also know they didn’t want any students to leave either.

7) The first of two weekend long optional visits to our human families

Early in 1985 Ti and Do scheduled all the students who had anyone in the world the opportunity to pay anyone who had “anxiety” about their whereabouts and condition a visit, saying if they were in more than one location perhaps they could travel to one spot. So most of us flew to where our parents were for the weekend and flew back. That was opening the door to any who might want to leave, making it easy for them to do so.

8) The second  optional weekend long visit to our human families

I don’t know of anyone leaving after the first visit trip but then after Ti left her vehicle DO set up the same visit schedule around 1987. I was even partnered with Srfody for the trip since we came from the same home town on Long Island and while there we met with Jwnody’s mother in Locust Grove. And Ollody who was visiting in Connecticut and Jwnody and Srfody visited with my vehicle’s parents and siblings and relatives to show them what kind of people we were with. I could have been wrong but on that trip I felt Srfody may have been interested in me again in a human way but I ignored what I felt were advances in that regard. It wasn’t the first time I experienced that with her. On several occasions in the classroom on duty in the same Lab (nutri-lab ( kitchen), fiber-lab (laundry), impro-lab (house and car maintenance), yeast-lab (bakery)) she would rub up against me a tiny bit which was a no no. Srrody also told me she had given him those same kinds of indications. In Austin, Srf was claimed to pull Alxody into a closet where they felt each other up, as reported by Alxody as a “slippage” (what we called a sin). So in a real sense sending us on a visit was a setup that was a test of whether we wanted to leave the classroom or not as that made it very easy to do.

9) Mrcody (known now as Mark, one of the two Heaven’s Gate webmasters) and Srfody (known now as Sara, the other Webmaster are instructed by Do through each of their students to leave the classroom until such time as they are ready to accept all the lesson steps

In early 1987 Mrcody and Srfody were instructed by DO and the class to leave the class because Mrcody didn’t want to abide by the “I could be wrong” lesson step. They were given a car and some money. Srfody came to Mrcody’s side while Mrcody was being offered help from classmates to get past his rebellion against that lesson step. “I could be wrong” was designed to instill the recognition that what our Older Members say is what we must rise up to recognize. Thus is was also a way of helping deflate our self confidence and instead put all our confidence in our Older Members.

It’s the same thing as when Jesus taught that his disciples needed to “deny self” and also is what is meant by saying the Lords prayer… “thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven…”. So our instruction was to state those words or words like that in front of any statement of opinion. It wasn’t just to deflate self confidence. It was to transfer that self confidence to drawing from Ti and Do’s mind to make decisions. Next Level Members are crew and service orientated, not self orientated which is also where Buddhism principals come from it seems – denouncing self but replacing self with the Information Mind from our Older Members (God) when they last gave instructions to abide by.

The lesson step started with the example of “leisure ports”. These were a type of tent we had. They were light green in color. Ti and Do said that if they said they were polka dotted then if we were of one mind with them, we’d see them as polka dotted. (I know that can seem like a mind trip, but Ti and Do never said things like that to test us, but they did give us information that was hard to buy initially for some more than others, which was the same kind of thing. One needs to surrender their judgement to their Older Member to gain the greater judgement from that Older Member. True Older Members can be trusted to not abuse their students as opposed to in the human kingdom when giving your will to someone else can be quite detrimental and hazardous. Recognizing the Older Member is a gift and anyone can have that gift if they ask for it by projecting their asking into deep outer space, beyond the stars to the Highest Source they can imagine and then observe what comes however subtle to see at first.

Not long after returning from the second visit Rthody wanted to leave and did because he was attracted by re-starting up his relationship with his vehicle’s brother and his family. Rthody ended up going publicly against Ti and Do and was living in the Nappa Sonoma valley when I visited with him in 1995.

10) In about 1987 DO says he is thinking about having himself castrated and asked some if they had a reservation with taking that act.

At about that same time in 1987 Do held a meeting where he indicated he was preparing to be castrated. He met with males and went over the procedure, not suggesting it would be for anyone else but that seemed to be an implication. A day or so later, DO then called about a dozen of us to his craft (house) and we had a meeting and he asked if any of the students in male vehicles had any reservations about having the castration procedure. Hvvody was the only one who said he did. Hvvody left the classroom some months later.

11) DO offers any classmember $2000.00 to leave

It was around 1991 or 1992 that DO said we had enough money in our possession that we can offer $2000 to any student who is staying in the class because it has become a comfortable life style when continued effort needed to be put out toward conscious overcoming of our remaining human behaviors and ways. I don’t know if anyone took him up on that offer or not but not long after that Pmmody left and then Andody left. One of Pmmody’s complaints she voiced in a documentary was that DO didn’t provide enough dental care. Rthody’s complaint was that there were too many “procedures” one being the direction one moved the razor when shaving. (That came about because someone asked DO how he shaved. TI and instructed us to make our commitment to DO and part of what went with such commitment was wanting to do everything like DO did it, though DO said that wasn’t necessary in all cases. TI and DO didn’t dream up “procedures” – they came about because of reports and problems and improvements in the craft operation, though they became tests to willfully follow or not.

A very large part of overcoming was overcoming doubts. I didn’t realize I had a bunch of doubts until I left the group and looked back on thoughts and actions I engaged that were actually deceitful – not following certain procedures and ignoring I was doing that which broke another procedure to surface breakages of procedure.

All this is a small part of the evidence that no one was held against their will in any way, shape or form and that we needed to work on our overcoming to stay in the classroom. It was designed to be a small group for that First Wave. It was too hard for most to justify staying with it year after year.

So the idea that some, who were laying down their vehicle’s lives, had doubts to the degree that they would express it in an exit tape saying they had no other choice was kind of absurd to hear but coming from someone who had dropped out or never entertained their beliefs it’s hard to imagine they didn’t have doubts.

But to the listener who is unaware of much of the story this statement by Frank seemed to give the appearance of the speaker as one of the 38 in the exit videos. Frank was not there but he was probably asked about his response to the exit video’s (as I was by the Pineapple Press team) so the writer stuck that in the podcast whether consciously or not, as if to put words in the mouth of one who was there. I hope it wasn’t staged for that affect as it would be quite deceitful to stage. If they really wanted to stay true to the facts, they could have used Franks clip but explained in a few words that it was his response to one of the exit video’s. Even though that too would be a way of potentially sacrificing the truth, as some just hear something and think it’s so, at least it would have been truthful to the facts. If it gets explained in a future episode, I guess it’s better than nothing but for those that hear it and don’t see the truth, it becomes misinformation they think is the truth.

More accusations against Sawyer’s blog, video’s, Revelations Book by Carlan aka Crlody

October 19, 2017

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Carlan’s next comment on same youtube channel as above:
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Why should anyone listen to you when the group left a lot of information behind that they very specifically asked to be disseminated? Answer, you had some dreams that you expect us to believe were contacts from the NL. No thanks, I’d rather go to the pure, undiluted source rather than listen to your PERSONAL take on what the class was about.

Why do you think that you are more qualified to talk about the lessons in the Class than Ti and Do are? Answer, according to you “we have all the information that we need”. So, to you what Do said on the tapes to the students from 1985 to 1997 is not information we need but by your actions your blog, videos and book are info we need. No thanks, I’d rather listsen to Do than to your diluted ramblings about the Next Level. Do knew what He was talking about far more than you ever will. Do made sense to me, He was coherent. Your 19 years are NOTHING compared to the wisdom of Ti and Do. You arent qualified to explain what the class was about. Why do you think They left all of that info? They didnt leave you behind. Youre here because you are afraid to follow Them out of here. But like Rio and the Kings youve had to make up a big mission for yourself that you claim is for the NL in order to justify staying here and you get enboldened by all the individuals who follow your blog and videos. Theres nothing brave about what youre doing and even though youve been conned into believing that what youre doing is for the NL youre actually doing all of this for yourself. You dont get to be the arbiter of all things Heavens Gate just because you spent more time in the class than anyone else on the planet. I hate this place. Its a corrupt cesspool that corrupts our souls every day. The class’ info is still being suppressed and distorted and no one seems to care. All you seem to care about is getting recognition for your 19 years in thd class and continuing to add to your blog and your youtube channel and marketing your book as if its some kind of addendum to the HG Book. Ill pass on your book and your videos. You cant help me get closer to the NL. Get over yourself sawyer.?

 

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Sawyer’s reply:
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I guess you can ask anyone who watches these broadcasts why they would listen to me. So you are putting words in my mouth again. I doubt anyone at all listens to me because I had dreams. I’m not talking about it because of dreams (though I admit without the first bunch, I may not have come out of my fallen condition (to the degree I had fallen)).

I encourage everyone all the time to go to the pure information from Ti and Do and Crew. But that doesn’t automatically mean I’m necessarily “diluting” the pure unless I try to reinterpret what they said or give my “feelings” of what they said and interject my opinions about what they said (without including something else they said). If I am diluting wouldn’t that be on a case by case basis? I’m not saying I never have and I’m not saying I never will and I am saying that I’m always open to hearing from anyone that can show me where I might have departed from what’s pure from Ti and Do (and from Jesus).

re: Jesus – I don’t know if you knew that Ti and Do said we could trust everything Jesus was recorded to have said in the 4 gospels. I remember reading or hearing DO on a tape talk about how some of that record has been tampered with, but he still knew that the core of his teachings were fully in tact. Ti and Do said, the Next Level worked very hard to insure that that record was not lost or changed. They spoke of that parts we could count on as the Red Letters, referring to the way some bible editions of the King James put Jesus words in red letters. (you can check this out. You might find it in the audios. But you could also ask Mark and Sarah or any others that were in the classroom in the earliest years to confirm.

I never said I was more qualified to talk about the lessons in the class than Ti and Do are. You are saying I think that. Are you claiming to be psychically reading me? The truth is that I just can’t help but talk about my experiences. Maybe I just need to do that. Let’s say it’s a big ego trip for me. I’m not saying it is, but you have said that about me so I’ve considered it. If so, that’s between me and Ti and DO. Why is what I do so wrong in your mind by your standard, whatever that is? Show me how Ti and Do would disapprove? You can’t so you just make stuff up or take tiny stabs at the way I word my blog titles and descriptions and anything that might even hint at what you have a preconceived idea exists to prove yourself right to yourself.

Because of your constant and repeated over years disdain of anything I say or do (with perhaps a few tiny exceptions) I’ve wondered at times what you think “Standing for Ti and Do” means? Did we have any examples from Ti and Do and Jesus of what taking that “Stand” means to them?

I don’t know if you have ever answered any of my questions that come about because of your comments over the last 10+ years.

All you do is repeat the same stuff that tells me what I’m thinking and saying and doing and why as if you are judge and jury and the almighty student of Ti and Do.

When I hear this I tend to think, I better speak more because I know 100% is true that the Luciferian space alien fallen angels and all the discarnates on their team (know it or not) and all the humans who become their tools to work against the truth of the Next Level, want nothing better than for those who have the direct experience to shut up or twist – dilute and distort the truth from Ti and Do (as with Jesus and with Moses, etc.) and/or turn them against the Next Level in every which way conceivable.

I should be doing more video’s and will because something good is coming from it. I’m not saying Ti and Do need me or anyone else to bring that about. I am sure about that. The task of “standing for Ti and Do” is available to all of us who remain after their exit. But the facts are that the Next Level is not done with this human kingdom. They by DO’s account know there are people who will be among the “Second Type” – those who recognize DO as from the Next Level and are attempting to separate from the world but who were not ready to exit when they did or are not today ready to exit in the way they did. And then there is the “Third type” Do spoke about as those who were separating from their humanness in their own way who may not ever hear about Ti and Do.

So even if all the things you have said about me were true, so what? Let’s say I get to be a big shot and get to be in a movie or play my flute in some big venue’s or get to go on TV shows, blah, blah, blah, if I’m not saying things Ti and Do would disapprove of, like saying the “gate is closed” which some have said directly and indirectly and more people are taking another look at Ti and Do or a first look, how can that be wrong. Even if I became equivalent to a Luciferian space alien fallen angel because of all that fame going to my head in some way, why is this such a thorn in your side that you have to keep saying the same stuff over and over and over with less and less evidence that most any it would be of any concern to Ti and Do?

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crl ody’s comment to youtube video:
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It is the King’s choice to suppress the tapes, not Ti and Do’s. Are Ti and Do going to interfere with Mark and Sarahs free will? If we have “more than enough” of their mind written then by that logic we dont need any more written about what Ti and Do were about. We dont need books from former students. We dont need blogs from former students. We dont need videos made by former students. Former students can only give limited and diluted and quite possibly incorrect info on what Ti and Do were about. Ive seen this happen time and time again. RKK always felt that he was unqualified to explain what Ti and Do were about, hence his only interest was in disseminating the info as per the Class’ final requests. No one on this planet is qualified to or sanctioned by Ti and Di to explain what They were about. We did not act on dreams we had in the Class. We did not receive our instructions from the NL in dreams. Do addresses this on one of the audio tapes. These are Sawyers videos. They are not made by Ti and Do. These are Sawyers viewpoints, not Ti and Dos.?

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Sawyers reply:
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Crl Ody and anyone who comes upon this:

-I never said nor implied it was Ti and Do’s choice to suppress the tapes.

However, I believe it was a “test” they gave to Mark and Sarah in particular, since DO gave them the CHOICE of how to handle them as evidenced in the letters. In the letter addressed to Mrc/Srf are the main 5 points that show what was left as their task to choose to do, how and when.

All the audio tapes were in the storage they are speaking of here as “items” (point #1) and “items of value” (point #2)) and it’s clear that anyone who felt inclined to disseminate their information. Note they didn’t say anywhere what the limits were to disseminating their information, nor how to do it ie. blogs, videos, audios, spoken word, books, meetings, etc. That was left up to each individual.

1) “We put into storage items that we would prefer the authorities not have access to. You can do with those items whatever feels right to you. The only exception to this is some exercise equipment which belongs to our landlord, Sam, and we suspect he will want at some point.”

2) “Pursers have included an additional document as part of this packet that further covers the disposition of our cars and this truck. So we ask that you refer to that document for details. It is our desire that any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information. Any of the funds you retrieve can be used towards that end and for the living expenses of those involving themselves in this project.”

3) Referring to a CBC producer/director named Debbie Geller, who wanted them (the class) to participate in a documentary, who worked out of the New York office, they wrote,

“So, for this reason, we are recommending that they be involved to some degree in the coverage of this event, that is, if their attitude seems to remain somewhat objective and you find working with them not too difficult. Of course, this is contingent upon whether or not you should choose to say anything to the media on our behalf. We would hope that the public would have an opportunity for more thorough knowledge of who we are and what we’re about.”

4) “Also we want to make it clear that we’re certainly not asking you to do these tasks if, after receiving this information, circumstances make It too difficult or other options seem more appropriate for you. We want you to feel free to exercise any available options with whatever timing feels right for your own next step. No doors are closed to you.”

5) “We also asked OSC to register the Heaven’s Gate book with the Library of Congress and that if he needed any funds to accomplish this, that you would cover it out of the project funds that you have on hand.”

6) In the letter addressed to RKK where he received their “hopes” he could accomplish, i.e. the press release, updates to the web site and some people they had been in touch with):

“Of course, this is contingent upon whether or not you should choose to say anything to the media on our behalf. We would hope that the public would have an opportunity for more thorough knowledge of who we are and what we’re about”

Thus speaking on their behalf was part of what they hoped He and thus any who felt to participate in their “project” (that referred to after their exit) would do. It’s also interesting that there were detailed instructions on how to handle their video tape exit statements and the Beyond Human Video tape series masters, indicating their wish that they are to be distributed for the “widest coverage” but said nothing about the audio tapes in storage. (I think it wasn’t spelled out because it was meant to be a test for all involved then and thereafter)

Here is the link to my blog post that includes a bit more:
https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2015/08/08/do-and-crews-instructions-on-handling-storage-locker-content-provided-choices-and-thus-tests-for-all/

-I don’t know if Ti and Do would “interfere with Mark and Sarah’s free will. They interfered with the Luciferians free will when they wiped out the Nephilim (human hybrids translated to “giants” in Genesis chapter 6 written by Moses that Ti and Do said some of was distorted) they seeded, with the Great Noah Flood? Ti and Do indicated The Kingdom of God interfered with allowing the Luciferians to suppress what Jesus said, so we could count on the current record in the four gospels.

How can you be so sure they wouldn’t interfere with Mark and Sarah’s continued suppression of the remaining audio tapes?

At this moment in time, as far as I’m aware, since we don’t know of anyone who has claimed to have those audio tapes, I believe that as of this moment we don’t actually need any more of their Informational Mind to show them what we need to show them. As you know DO said their information wasn’t meant to become a subject of study. We need to serve them and there is plenty to do to serve them with the existing materials.

I continue to “Stand for Ti and Do” which includes the dissemination of Their “Mind”. No one on earth is my judge in that regard. Their Mind is revealed in all the documentation they left behind that I have plenty of evidence in their materials left behind for us, counts the “records” they often spoke about and I recall clearly they said was from their Kingdom that includes what they said was the “Red Letters” in the gospel record and the related parts, they and Jesus referred to in the Book of Revelations and potentially any of the records that show the same consistent teachings. In 88Update, Do even quoted Paul’s writings in 1Cor 7:29 and 1Cor 7:32-35 about celibacy and marriage while knowing that Paul’s writings brought about significant distortion and dilutions of the true information from Jesus.

-You said “Students can only give limited and diluted and quite possibly incorrect info on what Ti and Do were about”. I agree that that can happen and does happen but the key word in that statement that is not factual to Ti and Do’s teachings is saying that “students can ONLY give limited…” It seems to me that saying this shows how you have made your cause into an all or nothing way of thinking about this. Ti and Do hardly spoke in such absolutes unless they knew it, so how is it that you act like you “know it”.

As I’ve said many times, show me the errors of my ways by showing me how Ti and Do taught otherwise (to any degree) and I’ll pay attention to that piece. If you don’t provide that evidence it’s just your opinion so what makes it any better than mine? It may even be giving incorrect information to make that unfounded very general blanket accusation.

-And who are you speaking of as “we” in saying these forms of communication are not needed. Isn’t that an individuals choice to determine what they derive value from or not? And why is it that Ti and Do always wanted students to serve in the dissemination of their Next Level mind by writing and talking and even thinking – (the strains of humans could benefit from thoughts and behaviors and ways of their students, as they could also be hampered by them, though all can be made a positive of), as shown in the audio tapes we have access to.

Why are you trying to suppress the expression of the many connections of Ti and Do’s material to the “records” and what they said and did that they never recorded in the years before they started taping that those who were with them then heard and experienced?

-I agree that dreams are not a way to receive instructions or new information yet you keep repeating that as if I did say that.

Rkkody did write about the Next Level. There is the document, “what if they’re right” and the other I’m aware of was “During a brief window of time some may wish to follow us”.

Here is the later one with Rkkody interpreting what DO said. But before I provide it, maybe you can answer a question I have – who is “we” in this document? I only ask that in case it was you, NOT to criticize Rkkody. I am NOT saying I disagree with what he says here. Plus, why is it that you allowed yourself to be photographed holding Deb’s book “Closing the Gate”?:

“When Do said: “During a brief window of time, some may wish to follow us” we don’t feel
this is limited only to former class members and to the best of our knowledge He did not
assign anyone the task of announcing when that gate was closed. None of us are qualified to
determine how long this brief window exists.

When we have our Older Member with us, we are not assigned tasks by having a little voice
come into our heads saying “I think I have this task to do.” We learned very early not
to trust any thoughts that would come into our heads or listen to little voices telling us
we should do this or that. Ti and Do did not ask anyone to leave the class because They
felt an individual might have another Next Level mission outside of the classroom, however,
some were asked to separate from the class in order to work on their overcoming at a
distance.

Those who chose to leave the class, left entirely because they chose NOT to continue
serving their Older Member.

[Are we who left not serving our Older Member if we disseminate their information?]

We learned by experience that when an Older Member is present on the planet, any
communication from the Next Level is directed through Their representative. It is
considered very inappropriate to make suggestions to this Representative (Ti and Do), for
tasks we may want to do. If The Next level wanted us to do a task They would assign it
through our Older Member directly (verbally), not by mental telepathy or little voices in
our heads. We are not aware that Do assigned anyone the task of announcing when the “Brief
Window” is closed. No one can say with certainty that this “brief window” is closed.
Only an Older Member from the Next Level would be in a position to state when that gate is
closed. And we are not aware of any Older Members here now.”

**************
jason (crlody) comments on 3spm (sawyer’s youtube channel):

“Once we leave, then base your decisions using the criteria of the information we’ve left behind for you” DRR. “only through a REP, or information left behind by a REP, can an individual learn what it takes to become a new creature that is acceptable to enter the Kingdom of Heaven”-SMM.

“Any information that seems to come through that cant be helpful in the overcoming process might have earmarks of being separate or unnecessary information, and I don’t feel that our Father’s Kingdom sends unnecessary information. That’s what happens when questions come up that have relatively no significance, no real relationship to our overcoming. We can get into theorizing about things that might go on in the heavens that really have nothing to do with our overcoming. And we can play the game of exploring a little bit, but it opens the door to possibly listening to other voices or letting SELF come in, and/or playing the game of “what if” or guessing what it might be……We feel like it really isn’t important; it’s of no issue to your overcoming”-Do.

Hmmmm, sort of like speculating about Ceres and on and on. Fun little games but irrelevant as far as one’s overcoming. “If you can look at it in that light, and just simply be amused by it, because we’re not trying to lock in on what we’re doing with fulfillment of the prophecies in the Book of Revelation” Do.

So, when Do was here He didn’t care much about these kind of speculations but now that He’s gone the Next Level has tasked you, Sawyer, with interpreting Revelation in order to prove who Ti and Do are along with all the other speculations that you have engaged in. And I’m supposed to believe that all these things that you speculate on are part of a task for the Next Level? Your interpretations of Revelation and things that are happening on Ceres or anywhere in the heavens aren’t going to help anyone with their overcoming. And if they can’t help anyone with their overcoming then they have “no real significance”, they are “fun little games but irrelevant”. I think that sums up your self-appointed mission derived from your dreams quite well, it’s a fun little game that you’re playing Sawyer but it is irrelevant. And if it’s irrelevant I think it’s a pretty strong possibility that your mission wasn’t imparted to you by Ti and Do. And if your self-appointed task didn’t come from Ti and Do then where did it come from Sawyer??

*************

Sawyer’s reply:

CRL ODY and anyone who comes upon this:

I don’t know what you are trying to prove by Drrody and Smmody’s quotes. I do use as my critera the information left behind. Read and watch everything and see for yourself. It’s why I don’t post the myriad of things I come across that I can’t link in some way to things I observed and learned in the classroom which at this time includes everything Jesus said in the red letters and in his direct references to the Book of Revelations that Ti and Do also referenced parts of and never said couldn’t include all of it, though admittedly I can be off to degrees in some of what I think I understand. That’s part of what we are up against now. Millions think those scriptures mean this and that when I can see more of what they mean. The same with the many “SIGNS” in the heavens. Ti and Do introduced me to the SIGNS via paying attention to the way the Next Level delivered lessons during the solstices and equinox. In the 1990’s DO instigated our examination of preachers talking about prophecy. Srrody even started to teach himself to read Hebrew that DO instigated the option to do. What did that have to do with our “overcoming”. Everything, I say because DO instigated it. Ti and Do instigated the view of a Comet as a sign, not me, when they spoke about how comet kohoutek came to perihelion when their car broke down in St. Louis and they rented that car using one of DO’s old credit cards that resulted in their arrest later.

It was TI and DO that said their first 3 points of awakening were that they were from outer space, the Kingdom of Heaven, here to “bring updates to the bible” and to “fulfill prophecy”. They never listed all the updates to the bible. But they did assign Dncody the task of “rewriting the bible” as I understood it, though I never heard anything further about that until Dncody left.

And you will note I spent a great deal of time with the fact that the New Horizon’s spacecraft photographed Pluto with the teachings from Ti and Do that Pluto could have been a spacecraft Lab, so again not from my mind to think.

The Overcoming Classroom was not a time to spend hardly any time on prophecy or Jesus teachings or the Revelations so yes it was amusing to do. But now when there are millions who say they believe in Jesus yet refuse to look at his (The same Soul who was incarnate in the vehicle named Jesus) I believe is crucial to offering them that “look”. However, that’s not why I wrote a book about it. I wrote the book because I had to write the book and I don’t care that many hate me and it for doing so. I’m in good company for it, that I know. So go ahead carlan, get your beef off, shoot your arrows, join the thousands who do the same if that’s what so floats your boat. It’s your choice just like I’m making my choices. I wonder if you ever think about what Do might say today about what I’ve written? Do you ever consult with DO about what you write against me? I do think about what Do might say about the things I write to you and admit have to hold the way the influences would have me use my tongue.

Are you against people seeing more about Ti and Do because they had a sense about things Jesus said and his prophecies and the signs of the times? Some have told me that’s what brought them to looking at Ti and Do, so nothing you can say will stop me from continuing. I will stop when Ti and Do decide it’s enough and I’m no longer capable or exit this vehicle by whatever means.

My whole book is full of these kinds of observations linking things (Signs) Ti and Do and/or Jesus said a tiny bit about that I ended up seeing as interpretations of the Revelations and Jesus gospel teachings so your finding fault with my efforts is once again far astray.

But even so, at the very least you can write me off as “playing the game of exploring a little bit,” as Do indicated was okay, didn’t he. He didn’t say it was wrong to do did he? He didn’t give instruction to those who might believe and want to serve after His overcoming classroom had finished, what they could be interested in exploring, did he? He did give instructions on what the formula was and he put it into Three types with the overall formula being stated by Jwnody in ‘”Away Team” from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure’: that is summed up as the overriding qualification being to “Stand for Ti and Do” until we exit.

I know what that means and it’s hardly a static sending files to people or talking on video’s or writing blogs but that time of test of each one of us is only just beginning, I assure you.

Many people can see right through your making absolute statements about what will help anyone with their overcoming. That’s evidence of the same self righteous indignation as we see throughout the religions that you never saw out of Ti or Do’s mouth yet you use it as a mockery of me.

I try to discern between those “other voices” Do might be referring to. I’ve heard a bunch. Sometimes I can be off track in that regard, I know and sure I can let SELF come in and I know well how “what if” can distract from accepting the truth and we can make up excuses for anything but doing the tasks we’ve been given to “STAND for TI and DO” is the overriding task at this time is it not.

By the way, if you are going to quote DO then I think it would be DISTORTING what he said to capitalize a word that wasn’t capitalized in the original document. I know I have “SELF”, don’t you? Who are you working for to spend all this time and energy with nothing to say but draw straws that might be construed as criticism of me with the hope for what – to get me to stop talking about Ti and Do and MY relationship with them?

To follow is the segment CRL ODY was partially quoting from Beyond Human, Session 7, which brings a better context as well as there were many instances in the classroom to be heard in the audio tapes, even on the Blackhawk tapes where DO did explore certain subjects stimulated by classmates questions and sometimes He or Ti would say it’s not important to our task. It is quite clear that the “classroom” with the Older Members has passed and now it’s in a different phase. We don’t have instructions on what to eat and what not to eat, what kind of things we find pleasure in, what kind of out of craft tasks to seek, what kind things to study or research or inquire about. But that doesn’t mean Ti and Do want us to stop our seeking of the truth through any avenues we choose.

Here’s Do’s statement:

“There’s so much that I can’t understand from where I sit, because even playing the role of teacher and a vessel with students and potentially with more students, relatively very little information is funneled through that Teacher role. Because only the information that is funneled can be helpful. Any information that seems to come through that can’t be helpful in the overcoming process might have earmarks of being separate or unnecessary information, and I don’t feel that our Father’s Kingdom sends unnecessary information. That’s what happens when questions come up that have relatively no significance, no real relationship to our overcoming. We can get into theorizing about things that might go on in the heavens that really have nothing to do with our overcoming. And we can play the game of exploring a little bit, but it opens the door to possibly listening to other voices or letting self come in, and/or playing the game of “what if” or guessing what it might be. I know that at times we, Ti and I, have guessed. When we do guess at questions that the students might ask, we try to say, “We don’t know. We’re guessing. It hasn’t been clarified to us.” And ultimately, after discussing it for a moment, we usually say, “We feel like it really isn’t important; it’s of no issue here to your overcoming.” What is shared is so limited – we know so little of that Kingdom.”

Jesus was also in the teaching role so to examine what he said to “observe” in his coming, which Ti and Do talked about as coming after they left, is part of that, though that coming was not a “teaching task” incarnate as they had. They said that in the document that was printed in UFO Missionaries Extraordinary. Here is a link to little parts of it I transcribed so you can see I didn’t make it up and am not “guessing” about it either or listening to other voices.

https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2016/11/28/ufo-missionaries-extraordinary/

I only answer you, so your voice is not left unchecked in this public square, the same as I do with all the trolls and mockers and judgemental scoffers. You are most often making “false accusations” against your neighbor (me), but I guess you don’t know any better so I’m not angry with you. You appear to hold yourself as the only former member who is righteous. You had no forgiveness for XF, nor me for the few things I have admitted not being proud of saying. (That’s not saying I think a lot of what I say is of value necessarily). Even though it’s easy to point out things Mark and Sarah and Rio have said as not from Ti and Do’s mind or the opposite, you resorted to name calling and condemnation of them when you have no right in Ti and Do’s mind to do so.

Bring specific things up to me and I’ll address them one by one. If you don’t agree then at least you’ve offered me something. These quotes from DO are welcomed but so far are hard to see as applying to now in the exact same way they applied to the classroom.

Do spoke of Armageddon. The only place that’s mentioned is in the Revelations. He spoke of how the Next Level would come back (after his exit). He spoke about the way the Luciferian fallen angel space aliens would be creating their last ditch effort to capture souls. He spoke about the most accurate meaning of rapture. He spoke about the Revelation 12 woman, but that one you may not know about and lots more so I’m following in excellent footsteps even though I am perhaps doing a poor job.

Another set of accusations against sawyer by crlody that are totally false and why:

http://www.sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2018/03/01/rkkodys-standing-for-ti-and-do-and-sawyers-reply-to-more-crlody-accusations/