Below is my critique of the article which at about mid way provides responses via an email interview with Mark and Sarah, the Heavensgate.com webmasters. I have comments to add to what both the author and what Mark and Sarah said.
Excerpts from Article:
Redefining cult by Charlie Pappalardo February 15, 2023
https://www.michigandaily.com/statement/redefining-cult/
Article’s Author:
On March 26, 1997, as the comet Hale-Bopp reached its nearest point in orbit, 39 members of a new age religious movement known as Heaven’s Gate downed a mixture of phenobarbital, apple sauce and vodka, and lay down to die in the hopes of ascending to their conception of paradise: “The Evolutionary Level Above Human (TELAH).” A day later, all 39 bodies, covered in shrouds and clothed in black shirts, sweatpants and Nike Decades were discovered in a 7,000 square-foot Rancho Santa Fe mansion. And a day after that, the press went into a frenzy.
Much of it was sensationalized. Time’s magazine’s March 1997 issue featured a grainy, harrowing photo of a wide-eyed Marshall Applewhite — the group’s leader — on its cover with the ominous headline “Inside The Web of Death.” People magazine detailed, also on its cover, “Personal Stories From Heaven’s Gate: BEFORE THE CULT.” Elsewhere, coverage was much more measured and pragmatic. The front page of the Washington Post, published a day after the incident in Rancho Santa Fe, read “AT LEAST 39 FOUND IN APPARENT MASS SUICIDE” and the following day, the New York Times deployed the subheading “Death in a cult.”
Amid the attempts to make sense of the calamity, there was one thing that everyone could agree on: Whatever Heaven’s Gate was, whatever belief had pushed those individuals to suicide, whatever “mind control” Applewhite had implemented, it was a cult. Nobody disputed it and no paper challenged it because only a cult would ever drive its believers to suicide.
Sawyer’s reply:
I am one of at least 7 first hand witnesses that can testify that no one in the group was “pushed” in the least into suicide. Plus there was no “mind control” used by DO (Applewhite) or TI (Nettles). We were given the tools to control our own Minds, the same kind of way someone is taught how to overcome substance abuses/addictions. If the person didn’t apply the tools then they didn’t conquer the addiction. This mind control accusation is more ignorance from people who can’t stand to actually examing what happened there.
However, yes it was a cult, in fact according to DO, “The Cult of Truth” and “The Cult of Cults”.
This idea that “only a cult would ever drive it’s believers to suicide,” is also erroneous. Couldn’t early Christians and Jews and Muslims and Hindu’s and Buddhist teachings be seen as driving followers to some type of dying by one’s own choices, what today is called, suicide? Doesn’t the Military drive soldiers to giving their lives in service if need be? I don’t know if many are aware that for decades since the Iraq war but because of Vietnam, etc. there have been some 20 veterans who have committed suicide every day. Why? Oh, some will say because they can’t adjust and settle into civilian life or because of some other condition they are weak minded because of. Yet who that has a conscience can ever justify going to a foreign land and being part of the machine that killed thousands and even millions of people, men, women and children? The number who are diagnosed with PTSD each day is in the hundreds and many will be on medications for their entire lives to keep from feeling depressed and angry and bombarded with hopelessness because of their choices.
What is a cult, this article goes on to try to define. DO said it was a “sub-culture”. Naturally the dominant culture in any society can feel threatened by sub-cultures because the sub-cultures don’t go along with the status quo culture necessarily. It’s well known that just because large numbers of people believe something doesn’t mean they believe in something or someone that deserves to be believed in. Look at how many people seemed to believe in the Vietnam and Iraq wars at the time yet in both cases it’s clearly known now that neither of those wars and many others were justified in any way.
But over time and not all that much time, the information that a Cult starts upon becomes more and more mainstream, that is if it’s content has legs such as what resulted in the worlds major religions. And those mainstream religions don’t like to be challenged. They become entwined with Governments.
Here is a prime example. If one goes to most any church and start talking about the many primary things Jesus said, many will say, that’s not what he meant, or that applied when he was walking on earth, or He was being figurative then not literal and will say he was being literal when the evidence shows he was being figurative.
If one suggested Jesus was a cult leader, many will say that’s blasphemous. Did he “push” his believers into suicide? One could make that argument but I know it wasn’t pushing any more than TI and DO pushed anyone. Nevertheless all three showed a great deal of evidence of having very strict standards students needed to adhere to if they expected to reap the claimed rewards of graduation into their Corporation that created the planet and all it’s life form systems. Often those who have come to accept belief in Jesus often have bought the so called formula of “believe on him” and reap the rewards. So when the Older Members (Father and Son) return and talk of the major requirements to be included in their Crew that means literally ceasing to function as humans, to wash one’s human mind out of one’s consciousness as much as possible so to fill one’s Mind with the consciousness from the Older Member’s Mind, it all seems bizarre and completely foreign.
On top of that the Lower Forces stimulate all manner of humans to twist, distort and dilute what the previous Representative from the Level Above Human said/taught/required to take next steps in their Astronaut Training Program by stimulating certain humans to grab onto a few characteristics common to the Next Level behaviors and ways while near completely acting in opposition to those behaviors and ways so that they give the entire idea a bad name. So that drives people to reject the religions but in doing so if they still hold onto a sense that what the last Representative provided, then they stand a chance of recognizing the truth when it’s revealed by the newly incarnate Older Members. It’s never easy as the Next Level (Kingdom of God, Kingdom of Heaven) want it to be hard as they only having openings for a few positions, in this case to replace the positions once held by those who dropped out. However, if more respond favorably to what those incarnate Representatives say and do, they still have a chance of getting with the program by learning about their requirements which at this time is to seek to be of service to the Next Level Above Human which if pursued by someone will lead them to the study of what DO and Ti taught and by the way that’s not leading to suicide but does lead to being seen that way by those who don’t know any better.
Case in point of how even those who appear to be serving the Next Level are acting against their own beliefs. This is shown clearly by the fact that I’m being sued right now by the Heavengate.com webmasters who are seeking to get a preliminary injunction against me to totally stop me from talking on my social media sites and they are saying that because of what I do in my livestream about talking about TI and DO there could be a repeat of what happened in 1997.
This is bizarre to have that kind of action against me by the webmasters of the biggest internet presence of the teachings of TI and DO, telling me I need to have my talk about them curtailed and especially because I am not at all talking favorably about Suicide. However, that is another of many examples of how the Lower Forces seek to even twist the Minds of even those who appear to be in favor of the teaching of the Next Level, which evidences what the so called war of Armageddon is all about – it’s a war for Souls with the lower forces seeking to steal away souls that could become Members of the Next Level if they seek it hard enough and are willing to push through their fears. Anyway, to the Court I just wrote many pages of all the evidence of how and why I talk against suicide. I’ll include those examples at the end of this reply.
For examples of distortions and dilutions and blatent promotion of mis/dis-information, one can look at all the groups/Cults who formed before and after TI and DO came public. For instance to include families and/or sexuality and/or children is a tell tale sign that what so and so is teaching is not from the genuine Next Level Members because like Jesus said, it’s a new family that is being developed among true believers and doers of the teachings. So all these other cults, though they have little pieces of the truth, what is real about the Next Level in whatever terms, they all demonstrate anything but the Next Level behaviors and ways and that’s because the Lower forces seek to distract from what the Next Level teaches.
Like take Jonestown. They were attempting to live communally which is characteristic of previous and current classrooms. There are often one or two charismatic leaders, but notice that in TI and DO’s efforts they didn’t seek to increase their numbers and even sent some out of their group because they didn’t feel they were serious enough to make it through the program they were offering and as it turned out some of those 19 found their way back into the group years before the Group left in 1997. But in Heaven’s Gate there were no children and no families and no sexuality and no drugs or other substance usages. There was no gender consciousness or race consciousness, all characteristics that are human. Also there was no recruiting in any real sense of that word. And isn’t it interesting that 25 years later there still aren’t any stories from the many dropouts or others about TI and/or DO saying or doing anything like ALL the other cult leaders and sects of Christianity and other religions and throughout the secular world as well, have said and done that are filled with all sorts of abuses of people and hording of monies and murders and schemes and manipulation of people? Plus for anyone that cares to examine, I’ve filled a book of 900 pages of research and experience that shows evidence in an academic kind of way that TI and DO fulfilled or are still fulfilling all the prophecies in the Book of Revelation and from what Jesus said in the 4 gospels.
Plus, when the message can’t be shot down what do people do, they try to shoot the messenger and that’s precisely what they have been doing to TI and DO and Crew since the start in 1975. Since 2017 TI has been called a hypocrite even by her vehicles daughter Terrie. Remember how Jesus said one’s enemies would be from their own families? There was no hypocrisy at all and I can have have proved it but no one in media groups wants to tackle that. Plus DO has been portrayed as evil in every which way but with no evidence because there wasn’t an evil bone his his body or mind and I can prove that too. In the 2020 doc they constructed a scenario that whenever DO got emotional talking about his Heavenly Father, TI, it was really because he had disappointed his human father because his vehicle had been homosexual.
Regardless, the societies that have become popular tend to lump everything that challenges them into one category, today called a “cult” which is also often done with subjects/events that become controversial or even avoided talk about in the mainstream media, often labeled a conspiracy, etc. and/or about the entire UFO subject. And the paid psychologists and stock religionists and new age pseudo spiritualists who the media often calls on, can always get ratings by debunking whatever they think the public won’t consider, so they will keep getting called on to add their two cents. Very, very few are brave enough to dig for what’s not made easy to find, which is actually good because the Next Level doesn’t need new members so they’d rather it be difficult to seek out the truth.
So I wanted to take some time to provide a little sort of synopsis of how Jesus talked about his and his students exit of their bodies and why and for who. First off I must approach the question:
Wasn’t Jesus the head of a Cult in his day?
Couldn’t it easily be said that Jesus drove his believers to “lay down” their human lives by knowing that if they spoke publicly about what Jesus said, which Jesus clearly wanted them to do, they would be treated like Jesus was treated and they would be killed because of. Isn’t that a “suicide” mission?
It was called in the bible to “lay down one’s life”. Remember when Jesus said, “do this in remembrance of me”. Was he starting a ritual, a ceremony or saying, you have to do all that I have done and then you can qualify to reap the reward. Then the lower forces twisted that into a religious practice and thinking that if we went through the motions even in thought alone and followed some rules we’d get the total reward Jesus promised. That had the affect that upon his return many people wouldn’t find themselves prepared to recognize what was true, what was real and what the Soul who was in that body named Jesus would be saying upon returning, that he’d be saying the same things and even much more upon return.
Here are some of the ways Jesus talked about being willing to give one’s all in service to him, the currently incarnate Older Member Soul from the Kingdom of Heaven, Kingdom of God, the Next Level Above Human:
Mar 10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Here Jesus shows the condition in which his Father loves him:
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Here Jesus is quite clear that he is choosing to lose his physical life, lay it down and that it is his right for one reason only because His Father said it was appropriate.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Here Jesus gives instructions to love one another and then decribes the greatest application of that love being to “lay down his life for his friends”. then he gives the condition in which he considered others his Friends. They do whatever he tells them to do.
Joh 15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Here is part of how Jesus knew that laying down his life was his task given to him by his Father, his Older Member which was talked about as his “cup” which was also equivilent to saying his “lot” – what TI and DO called his “assigned task”:
Joh 18:10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest’s servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant’s name was Malchus.
Joh 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?
Luk 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Mar 10:37 They said unto him, Grant unto us that we may sit, one on thy right hand, and the other on thy left hand, in thy glory.
Mar 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
Mar 10:39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
Mar 10:40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
For those that followed Jesus, they knew it would never be popular during their time and Jesus knew that the price to pay was giving service that could result in the laying down of our body. That doesn’t mean desiring to do so, except for knowing that the task would require leaving one’s body by whatever method. Here it’s talked about as to “take up the cross” which was a common way to kill off heretics and political dissidents who threatened the governments sovereignty:
Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
In other words if one decides to ignore the opportunity to outgrow one’s human kingdom life then they could lose their potential life in his kingdom as one may not make the choices that would find them recognizing the presence of the Older Member and seek to bond with that individual who can lead one into accomplishing the coursework needed to graduate out of the human kingdom into the Next Level Above Human, no longer remaining in a temporary cyclic system of birth and death. Thus graduation = the truest meaning of “life”:
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
Here Jesus says it in another way, that the body is not really the greater part of what/who we are although now is getting rid of our body any kind of ticket to heaven. In fact in “Our Position Against Suicide” on the Heavensgate.com website, DO and Crew make it very clear that we need our human vehicles to learn lessons through:
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
Mat 10:30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
Mat 10:31 Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Article Author:
But what that word — cult — means is highly subjective and often not very clear. In fact, there are at least two people who would still disagree that Heaven’s Gate was a cult — and they still consider themselves members, even continuing to run the group’s website in order to keep their message alive. So a few weeks ago, I decided to email them. They responded quickly and in a matter-of-fact tone reminiscent of something sent from a PR company — and they answered any questions I had. I asked them the basics. What drew them to their faith? What was life like in the group? Had their faith been at all shaken in the years since 1997? And did they ever feel sadness at being removed from the other members of their group? They answered with a numbered list — four terse bullet points reading exactly:
1: We went to a meeting that Ti and Do held at Waldport Oregon in 1975. We listened to them and joined immediately.
Sawyer: I went to the same meeting and also joined immediately thereafter.
2: We went on the road with them and lived in campground situations while learning of the Next Level.
Sawyer: I also went on the road with them and lived in campgrounds while learning from TI and DO.
3: Since 1997 our understanding has remained the same. There are no doubts.
Sawyer:
This is very telling for Mark and Sarah to say they don’t have any doubts when there is a vast amount of evidence that they actually have a great many doubts. Let’s first define “doubts”. If someone is in school and the professor gives instructions and the student doesn’t want to do the instructions given, the student may on the surface believe that Professor is a Professor, went to school and graduated and is capable of teaching whatever course, but when it comes to practical “belief” in what that Professor instructs, shows doubt by not paying attention to what the Professor desires from their students.
Mark and Sarah demonstrate being like that student who believes in general everything that TI and DO taught but in specific chooses to ignore the biggest most current instructions given for after they exited, that we have tons of evidence of. Their own words reveal this:
Here are two segments that give guidelines for after their exit to be found in the document “Away Team” From Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure, written by Jwnody, trusted elder Student in TI and DO’s Classroom on April 8, 1996 to be found in the Heaven’s Gate Book and/or posted on Heavensgate.com:
Note the last line that indicates these returned Souls are getting the the opportunity – being given the chance to leave by getting this information out – what DO called the Dissemination Project what every new believer must engage to show the Next Level they want to work for them. Mark and Sarah have made it very clear that they believe only them have that task, in direct opposition to what DO taught. Here is the entire paragraph:
“Every soul, that was a part of a deposit, at any time during this civilization, is back to make their choices once again. Some of these may be younger, perhaps second- or first-trimester, souls. Although they may not even have a chance to get to know us before our departure, we do recognize them, because they “recognize the enemy.” They see through the lies and no longer want to be a part of this world. And so it is our task to give them a chance to leave this place by getting this information out.”
Then Jwnody writes the same perspective from another vantage-point showing that it’s an “overriding requirement” to believe all of what TI and DO taught and be willing to “take a stand in defense of that belief” again not a mere belief but one that requires action. Taking a Stand means one needs to know what TI and DO stood for, thus one could assume a significant study time period would be helpful. Here is the entire paragraph:
“In order to get saved for further planting, the overriding requirement is to recognize that this is true (these are the facts). You must believe that we represent the Kingdom that created this planet and all of its inhabitants. And you must be willing to take a stand in defense of that belief, and sustain that stand until the end – your departure – regardless of the consequences.”
Mark King has said that he wants the world to hear the TI and DO information but apparantly not many of the 1061 audio tapes Mark King says they have in their possession, that they admitted to having digitized many years ago have been provided to anyone, save Jhnody who when he shared them with me because at odds with Mark and Sarah. They say they won’t share them with some of the biggest disseminators of TI and DO’s information, Crlody (aka Carlan) and Swyody (aka Sawyer) because they say we will post them on the internet and that would be like “pearls before swine” to give them to whoever asks, yet they have supported the website for 25 years and no doubt there are some that have gone to that website to strictly harass them. It’s part of the territory to deal with certain degrees of negativity directed at us.
Mark told everyone in one of my livestreams over a year ago that they would put all those audio tapes on Vimeo but then made a condition out of doing so, that Sawyer and Carlan needed to give them all the audio tapes we possessed. We each independently from one another were gifted with the audio tapes. Carlan received about 218 of them from Rkkody who he was working with in 1997 after Rkkody retrieved them from Storage that the Class wanted him and others to have. Rkkody sent them to me in 1997 and again in 1998. Then in 2021 Jhnody (Francisco Falcon) sent me a thumb drive with over 900 audio tapes on it. He was gifted the audio tapes by none other than Mark and Sarah for safekeeping off shore since Jhnody lives in Venezuela. But Jhnody just so happened to listen to audio tape 149 where TI and DO each expressed not less than three times anticipating after they exited people listening to every audio tape and even growing by a type of osmosis from repeatedly listening to them. So he realized the tapes weren’t meant to be kept in storage but were meant to be heard so he sent them to me because he knew I’d share them with people who asked for them. I did that and Mark and Sarah freaked out and threatened a lawsuit. No money was involved at all. But they know that I know exactly why they were kicked out of the Group and hate hearing that story they have been lying about. Notice how in this interview they avoid that question. More on that later.
See, when DO and Crew exited in 1997 they sent 8 former Students one or more Fed X packages containing video tapes and documents, away team patches, etc. At least four of the eight; Rkkody, Mark/Sarah, and Jhnody received the web site code and Rkkody and Mark/Sarah got the account information. Mark and Sarah got the letter that expressed they could go to Storage to retrieve the items of value that included the 1061 audio tapes and suggested getting help with storage from Rkkody and Oscody and others. But when they exited Mark and Sarah didn’t intend to go to Storage and on the morning of the 27th of March gave the letters they got from DO and Crew to Rkkody because they were afraid. So Rkkody and Oscody went to storage later that same morning when they got the letters because the letters told of Storage and the codes and other information. Rkkody and Oscody roughly split up the 486 audio tape cassettes they retrieved from Storage. Rkkody had received from DO the instructions to make initial changes to the website and after he was deceased Mark and Sarah, who before then changed their minds and then wanted to do their task since they saw it’s wasn’t going to continue bringing the website and them more than manageable negative media attention. I believe they even settled into enjoying having the appearance of leadership and felt they were reinstated to some degree to Group membership, which no doubt they might have been to some degree but then started to sway far away from what TI and DO wanted by claiming to be the only ones with the task to disseminate TI and DO’s information and claiming they owned everything and falsifying copyrights on some of the audio tapes and video tapes and the book and paintings the Group members created. DO certainly could have copyrighted things but the only copyright example he left behind was on the original book, we the “blue book” which had a Common Law Copyright on it that allowed for copying parts of their book or entirely as long as none of it was changed or added to and as long as it was done for commercial purposes. (It’s clear from DO’s previous lessons that charging someone for the materials needed to give people the information is not considered commercial).
Mark and Sarah lied to three courts now in a number of ways and in this suit we have been calling them to task for doing so and we hope the Court will at least let us have our day in Court to prove. I don’t want to have this battle with them but they attacked me, Crlody and my partner Cathy so we are forced to defend ourselves and stand up for our right to have access to all of TI and DO’s teachings and share them with others who ask for them and not do so for profit.
Mark and Sarah continue to change things about history and even what TI and Do stood for and I must call them out since they are claiming to represent TI and DO’s legacy to the public and lying is bringing them dishonor.
Next response to article authors questions:
4: We do not feel separated from them.”
Sawyer: See, here Mark and Sarah did not answer the question the author asked them about. It’s really no big deal to admit why they were sent out of the group, but to them, according to the interview in Bardo Methodology Mark felt DO was unjust and even apologetic for sending them out of the Group, or at least that’s the way Mark took DO’s calls in those days it seems. But even if DO did express that perhaps he made a mistake, which from DO’s audio tapes, I doubt, then why didn’t Mark and Sarah return to the Classroom? Mark seemed to address that, saying the same things would come up because of certain students still being there because certain students knew from working with Mark how hard it was because he always thought he was so right about his ideas, which was totally uncharacteristic of a Member of the Next Level which we were attempting to become/train for according to TI and DO’s guidance.
Then there was another time when DO offered he and Sarah some service when they were outside the Class and according to DO the refused and agreed they wouldn’t want service if they couldn’t perform it while staying exactly where the were and living by themselves as opposed to having another classmate working together with them. See, DO was examining different attempts to interface with the public again so was looking for some students who were outside the Class but said they still wanted service to help out in ways. So if their removal from the Class was all because of rumors of other students in the Class, if they wouldn’t be working with those certain other students because they weren’t going to be in that major student body, then why not take DO up on the service he offered. I completely identify with why not do what DO suggests as after I left, over a year later DO asked me through Rkkody what was up with me and all I had to say was that nothing had changed which meant I wanted to be doing exactly what I had been doing. I could have expressed that I would like service but felt I needed to be outside the Class and DO would have stayed in touch with me as well and perhaps then I would have been on the list of 8 who received packets when they exited. I understand that there is something we could like about not being in the Class as it was easier to not be in the Class because DO’s standards were higher than ours.
To me they are hiding the things that happened. Of course they never were much for being transparent with the public, never giving any face to face interviews that I ever heard about. That’s also not easy to arrive at because who wants to be walking around and have people identify you with what was called a Suicide Cult. I don’t have a lot of problems in that regard but there have been some because I’ve done a great deal of media showing my face. I show my face so that people will know who is talking.
Do offered them additional service outside the Classroom in 1994 that I was a witness to. And why did Mark blame DO’s choice to send him out, on certain classmates spreading rumors about him to DO, as if DO wasn’t a good teacher by listening to certain students which there is zero evidence he did and these are not just opinions but can be backed up by over a dozen clips of DO talking about them in the very audio tapes they don’t want me to talk about. For years I didn’t even want to play those audio tapes but now I may have to, that is if they keep on pressuring me with the lawsuit and even making false accusations about me, as if to try to get back at me for telling the truth about the things they say to the media and public that are not from TI and DO’s Mind. Sometimes their responses may be in line with what DO and TI taught but they say too few words so it becomes misleading. If I recall correctly, one example was where I believe they gave several different media groups this idea that there was no Heaven and no Hell. Sure that could be said but to just say that as they seemed to is really poor because many things need much more explanation. For instance, there is no “heaven” as the religions think of it as floating around on clouds or being given eternal life for doing next to nothing beause some believe Jesus did it for us. Jesus did demonstrate what needed to be done but we had to build our minds to duplicate what he gave us to do.
So they have been trying to hide the truth and perhaps even see some of it differently, though what Mark said in Bardo Methodology makes no sense they want people who go to the website and I’m sure those who know them more personally and to certain media groups who have interviewed them and lied to all about why they left, to take responsibility upon themselves for their choices, instead of blaming DO for being influenced by class members as Mark claimed in the Bardo Methodology Interview that I critiqued on my sawyerhg.wordpress.com blog.
Article Author:
At first, the shock factor of a response floored me, but as I continued a dialogue with them, I realized that we were speaking with different understandings of what Heaven’s Gate was. When I asked them questions about Heaven’s Gate, I was asking questions about what it was like to live in a cult. But when they responded, they were talking about a way of life — their way of life — as fact. Take, for example, how they later described TELAH:
Mark and Sarah: “There is no spirituality of any kind. Think of it as NASA, not silly nobodies angels.”
Sawyer:
This is how they described “TELAH”?
I would tend to believe Mark and Sarah said more about it that he didn’t publish in this article but then again, I wouldn’t be surprised with Mark and Sarah saying that little because of how little they say in answer to questions to many interviews I have on record.
However, I believe they told me when I met with them in 2021 with my partner Cathy as my witness that, before the Group left, when DO and Crew had some communications with them, as DO prepared to leave their vehicles, he told them something to the effect of not to fence with people and keep your responses short, if I recall, and to me they took this to an extreme sometimes, even often times, from the many interviews they have given. Plus DO must have been speaking about their website responses, if I understood correctly, knowing they would be subject to lots of negativity from people, as I believe they were. But in interviews, note they didn’t give instructions like that to Rkkody or Jhnody or others who took on what DO called the Project to Disseminate their information to people. When we traveled around the country and perpared for doing so in the early 1990’s when I became a primary on the speaker task, there were no instructions on what to say and how much to say. Here is why I’m harping on this:
Mark and Sarah seem to go overboard, I presume unknowingly to use as few words as possible but then the words they do choose become almost complete contradictions of even basic teachings from TI and DO. I believe they have criticized me for much talking, as have others, and I’ve learned to actually keep it down yet not for the sake of brevity alone but to instead try to make what I say more potent and meaningful. So even though I may fail at that, I think it’s far more important to err on the side of giving more information in interviews, even if it never gets aired because there is just too much, because I really feel explaining things in different ways was what DO was so good at and I wish to try to mimic him though it’s not a competition either – it’s to give the reader/listener the best chance of keeping negative influences at bay and getting through with providing some avenues for a continued curiosity about what TI and DO taught, instead of being filled with the words that the media gives people to consume. It seems to me that if anyone doesn’t want to say much or don’t have much to say or feel they aren’t able to get it across in some adequate way, it’s almost always good to try but in order to stay on the course DO and TI gave us, then bring in quotes from things they recorded in writings and/or audios and/or video’s they made.
For example related to Mark and Sarah’s use of the word “spirituality” in this interview in this article, in the video DO made in September of 1996 and in a number of other video’s and audios he made, he said that the Next Level Above Human was both physical and spiritual but just wasn’t etheric.
To say there was “no spirituality…” is one degree of contradiction and then to say “…of any kind.” is like another layer of contradiction. TI and DO said that the word “Spirit” was actually synonymous with the word they preferred, “Mind”. They actually said a lot about those words plus lots of concrete understanding about what a Soul is. They said there were two kinds of Mind in the human kingdom, mind/spirit aka information and programming, from the lower forces, the Luciferian Space Alien fallen angel soul teachings, as information that is against the Next Level thinking and the Next Level thinking aka Holy Mind or Holy Spirit (the later kind that flows and joins every Member of the Next Level (Kingdom of Heaven/God). There are a number of documents in the Heaven’s Gate Book that do a great job of describing Spirit/Mind and Souls. So if they don’t want to say much about it for whatever reason why not point them to the documents. I am well aware of a discarnate influence, or Soul from the lower forces that wants to avoid looking at the words of TI and DO and likes to give out the feeling especially to former students that they have retained all the information that there is to retain because they like to have some think they have an excellent memory and comprehension. Mark, I’m sorry to have to say, his vehicle (body) does or used to have a good memory and keen comprehension, but he became over confident in that and so TI and DO and later DO needed to give him a special task of being “muted” so he wouldn’t be butting into things in ways that were inappropriate and he was referred to as acting like a “trail boss” among students and that he didn’t know when he was possibly wrong about his opinions and yet he has demonstrated all those same characteristics even to a far heightened degree by suing me for playing audio tapes for free on my Youtube channel, 3spm over the years, but especially since I received the 900 plus audios from Jhnody that he gave to Jhnody but wanted Jhnody to just store them, not do anything with them, which was very much against what TI and DO wanted and expressed in many of those same audio tapes.
I’ve learned for myself, that by playing those tapes over again for myself personally but mostly to look for answers to certain questions I had, that there was a lot that I missed and I don’t think I was really terrible at listening. TI and DO just said so many things that went near completely over my head so they didn’t really register. When I met Cathy who had been in her own right a new believer I began to listen with her to audio tapes with or without looking for something in particular and in all cases I learned so, so much I’d either forgot or never fully grasped to the degree perhaps I could have or that I would grasp better if I had had some more experience in the world.
It’s like someone who reads the words of Jesus and then at other points in their lives read those words again and even again with even years in between, I would tend to guarantee each time they came back to reading those words, they would come away with feeling they understand many things better than before even as if it was the first time hearing those words. I believe that is because the Older Members aren’t just using words. They know what they know and that knowing literally stays with their words and can in percentages according to the listeners choices provide different degrees of understanding.
DO did compare the Next Level to being a Corporation to remove it from the religious terminology that renders it less than real. But even saying “…not silly nobodies angels”, is like putting people down that have beliefs about angels when they are not silly at all. He/They seem to have this highly cynical streak and talk as if they are talking down to people as if they maintain some loftiness above others.
Yes, DO gave them some tasks to do but they then seemed to take that as, now we can do exactly what we want with the information left behind because DO said in his letters to each of the former students I know about that they could exercise whatever options they choose to. They have even stated this in their lawsuit as their justification for copyrighting audios and video’s and writings, things DO certainly could have copyrighted and/or given them some legal documentation to justify their having that material copyrighted. But DO didn’t give any of that to them and that may be the reason their copyrights should not stand up as preventing anyone from copying them as long as it’s not for commercial purposes (besides to pay for their being digitized, etc.), which is the copyright DO put on the Heaven’s Gate Book that Mark and Sarah then removed and replaced it with the Telah copyright. That even would not have become a negative if they did that and then let others do the dissemination task but no they couldn’t stand for someone else and especially me or Carlan and now Cathy from participating in the dissemination task because it might confuse people they said in the lawsuit and lead them to commit suicide when no one since 2000 has committed suicide related to Heaven’s Gate and we would certainly have heard about it. But it’s because people need their human vehicles to learn lessons through and this is the time to do it and there is no ticket to Heaven by dying and living some good life as some religions teach.
Article Author:
When they speak about the doctrines of Heaven’s Gate, it isn’t a matter of faith or belief. It’s a matter of what is. In their minds, they aren’t in a cult, because they aren’t spiritual. They don’t believe, they know.
Sawyer:
I don’t know if Mark and Sarah think of themselves as supporting a “cult” by keeping their writings on line through heavensgate.com. I could see why they have tried to steer people away from using that word but all I think we really need to do is explain the things DO said about the word, that it meant “sub-culture”. I already spent much time on that word early on in this article critique so I won’t repeat myself here.
Article Author:
If you want, you can dismiss the last two remaining members of Heaven’s Gate as crazy cultists who have been brainwashed and traumatized. But, they can — and do — say the same about other religions. Hell, they even acknowledged as much on their website, where they predicted having their beliefs derided as heretical.
“It is clear to all of us, that to the Anti-Christ — those propagators of sustained faithfulness to mammalian humanism — we are, and will be seen as, their Anti-Christ.”
Sawyer:
They are not “remaining members” necessarily as there are no laurels to give any former members stature like that if one thinks about it as “stature”. If I was to employ that, then I would claim to be an Older Member and/or Elder Member in the context of helping humans grow towards Next Level Membership, because DO said that on the Beyond Human – The Last Call – session One that I was a helper for. But I didn’t get a passing grade in that Classroom so that would be wrong for me to assume and nor is there any value to taking that position because I do still act in human ways even though I don’t know how distasteful are the human things I do to DO relative to what I’m up against and relative to the tasks of dissemination I attempt to perform. The point is that DO is our judge not one another.
I believe they like the idea that people think it’s their website and I get that as I like to be of service to TI and DO which they have done by keeping the website up and running mostly unchanged from how they left it for many years now. But that has seemed to go to their heads as a type of personal power to the degree that they seem to think they can second guess TI and DO. For instance they told Cathy in an email that we have on file, that if I got on an airplane without having been vaccinated during the tail end of the Covid disease, “TI would slap him silly” which TI would never do even if she thought I was very wrong to do that. And the fact is we don’t know for sure what TI would say about all that, but “they do????” – They gave Cathy and I several indications that showed how highly in tune with TI and DO’s Mind they think they are and yet their actions speak tons to their missing so much of what TI and DO can be heard talking about wanting to see.
Article Author:
To the outside world, Heaven’s Gate is a cult. To those within it, all else is a cult. So, if we reach this point, where the word “cult” loses its value and becomes defined as a matter of perception, then does the word “cult” bear any meaning at all? This predicament raises an interesting question: How on earth do we define the word “cult” so that it actually describes something more than just the abnormality of belief?
Sawyer: This is not true. All else besides Heaven’s Gate is the accepted normal CULTURE, not at all a subCULTure. Even the many groups termed cults by the main stream are not necessarily a subculture either. That would take an analysis of each one. But Heaven’s Gate cult is actually the Cult of Cults and the Cult of Truth – in other words doesn’t match up with any norms or even the other sub-cultural norms. Sure there are similarities among all Groups and the Religions when they began were to whatever was the mainstream at that time a Cult subculture. For instance those that believed in Jesus 2000 or so years ago were looked down on by the mainstream/state religions, Greek, Roman and Jewish. Their leader was considered crazy and dangerous to the norms, thus challenging to them all. Heaven’s Gate being the fulfillment of what Jesus actually taught were also seen as crazy and dangerous to the norms that developed over time assimilating Christians into society.
TI and DO taught that every human had the capacity to choose to enter into a metamorphic process that would literally change out and transform them into a new Being in all ways, biological and mental/spiritual into a person the Creators of the Earth and all it’s life forms, who are many membered and have their Kingdom in Outer space on board spacecraft laboratories that can be as large as planets inside and/or out would have joy adding to their Family and crew who are all the Next Evolutionary Step Above and Beyond the Human kingdom level of life. That meant each student needed to abort all their human thinking, behaviors and ways enough to be acceptable in Their Kingdom before they are allowed to be among them. The religions have some of this truth but are all distortions and dilutions the Next Level allows to happen by allowing the dropouts from a previous experiment to remain on earth to influence humans so that humans could only grow by their choices that the Next Level Members help them to do if they ask. This is exactly what Jesus taught but was distorted and diluted to be another country club religion, though can also be stepping stones.
Article Author:
In the case of Heaven’s Gate — a prime example of just how dangerous cults can become — it’s clear that definitions matter. A few months before their mass suicide, the group released a page on their website titled “Our Position Against Suicide.” But in it, they redefined suicide. Suicide, in their revision, became turning “against the Next Level when it is being offered.” The word was injected with value. Suicide was no longer just an action, but an action only comprehensible through the lens of an ideology and, as such, it lost all meaning. In much the same way, “cult” has lost all meaning in common vernacular.
Sawyer:
Actually, in the piece, Our Position Against Suicide, they talked about there being a need to have a human body. They were against both forms of suicide. Suicide of the human and suicide of the Soul. Of course if one doesn’t consider that there is a Soul then this will make no sense but for anyone that claims to be a Christian who believes in what Jesus taught then he plainly spoke of death of the body as unimportant and death of Soul being of the utmost importance.
Article Author:
Cults have enormous, enormous power — over their followers, over the public psyche and even over what we understand about religion. The power they have can be incredibly destructive, and I think the simplest thing we can do to restrict that power is to actually, objectively, understand what they are — as structures of belief, not merely abnormality.
Sawyer:
It’s ironic that any reasonable examination of the power any groups classified as cults have over people could easily be shown to be minuscule compared to the highly and “incredibly destructive” power the established mindsets, the religions, the political institutions and societies have on their “believers”. Look at the wars? Look at the suicide rate. In the U.S. alone there is an average of 124 or so suicides every day, 20 or so from former military personnel. Look at how many people are on a constant regimen of various drug (legal and illegal) and alcohol and other substance use and abuse just to get through each day and how many die or are maimed as a result. Look at all the deceit and manipulations of the people that goes on over decades by the mainstream media who support this or that government and/or party in power, as they reap trillions of dollars selling weapons to one another’s nations. And yet, a little ole group of people who are classified as a dangerous cult because they decided they would leave their bodies in their own way at their own time instead of waiting to die of disease or old age or from an accident or in a war or because of crime.
For any Christian who thinks Heaven’s Gate was dangerous, they might want to think about what Jesus said and did and how he was treated and do just a tiny comparison between what Jesus actually told his followers they must do to reap the said rewards of being with him in his kingdom before casting stones at the TI and DO believers.
Sawyer Stands for Ti & Do's Heaven's Gate 
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