Upvoted.com interview with heavensgate.com webmasters and sawyers claims of misinformation

Here is a link to an interview the Heavensgate.com webmasters I’m calling M and S gave to upvoted.com. Following the link I included my responses. Those responses should be on the web site as well. In my responses I say certain things M and S said or didn’t say were misleading. I am not implying they intended to mislead, but that sort of thing can I believe begin to slip in, so I hope if they read this they can take it as what might hopefully be helpful criticism and I am open to hearing any criticisms of what I say from them or anyone for that matter and I will see if the “shoe fits”.

https://upvoted.com/2015/10/03/an-interview-with-the-heavens-gate-webmaster-meet-telah-61/

Part One of three of response to M and S interview:

Thank you to the writer and editor for sticking to the facts that have been increasingly distorted as we speak. However, as to the answers to your questions I would like to provide you with my version as I joined Ti and Do from the same meeting in Waldport, Oregon as the ones you interviewed in September of 1975 and was in Ti and Do’s classroom with them until they were told to leave the classroom in 1987 and can be seen in my youth in 3 of the “Beyond Human – The Last Call” video tapes Do had us make in 1992 and was aware of some of the communications with these two in 1993-4 that included offering them a return to the class option if they were willing to abide by the lesson step entitled, “I could be wrong” that they didn’t want to abide by and became the reason they were told to leave. Then I was assigned to be an overseer with my partner of one of the four groups we broke into to bring Ti and Do’s information to the public in a face to face way, for the second time in 19 years throughout the U.S. that began on 01/01/94 and ended in September of that same year which is when all those who were still committed members to include new members were informed by Do that “we might have to exit our vehicle by our own hand”.

We got back to California from where we ended up in Massachusetts and Do told us about the plan to drink a drug mixture to exit our vehicles and went one by one around the room of about 40 something students asking each if they had any reservations. Some did and left the next day or two after that, still in September of 1994. I had no reservations but I was not the person I had been for 18 years before that. It’s a long story that I have made public on my blog http://www.sawyerhg.wordpress.com and my youtube channel: 3spm and other places, but the way I fell was by starting to masturbate, not having even thought about it before that, which was a response to having the ego to ask Ti who was outside her vehicle, but who Do told us we could talk to directly, for a more difficult task like Do had. In other words, she took me for what I asked for and sent me a “booger” (we called our assigned advasaries (satans meaning)) a bigger one than I had been assigned, one that perhaps Do dealt with that I seemed to have no power to resist or even want to resist or even to ask help to resist. Here I had been an overseer in many assignments over the years and then of a group and I was a primary speaker at the 1994 meetings in about a dozen big cities in the U.S., did radio, TV and print media interviews at that time while breaking the biggest rules in the group that were grounds to be asked or told to leave – that of giving into sensuality and then the second biggest reason to be asked or told to leave the group – that of hiding it – being deceitful by not surfacing my “major slippage” (what in the archaic terms would be a sin). Some of my fellow students looked upon me as a good example of Next Level behaviors and ways.

I was often assigned by Do to be a helper to others who were having various difficulties in their conquering of the influences that they needed to gain strength of mind by working against giving into. Do saw my separateness a week or so after I began to fall and asked me what was going on and I spilled my gut to him and he asked me what I wanted to do and I said, I need to expose it to the group which I did and Do said sometimes failure is the hardest lesson to rise above. So I was taken off of the overseer task but then a week or two later Do asked me to perform another overseer task and I told him I couldn’t as I’d be a hypocrite, so he asked me what I wanted to do and I said, “I guess I have to leave”. He replied, “you want to get more objective.” He had me pass the phone to another student and he told her I was leaving and told her to tell the others not to try to talk me out of it because I knew what I was doing. Later Do asked me where I wanted to go and I said I was thinking of taking a bicycle and riding it east. He suggested going to stay with these two in this interview and had the pursers give me $600.00 cash and bought me a plane ticket to Arizona. I was actually relieved to leave, not because there was any abuses or things I wanted to do that I couldn’t do in the group. I had no desires to do anything else. I just wasn’t face with my own hypocrisy.

It took me ten years to know why I left as I’ve stated and in retrospect I see so many signs of how I though of myself as special, stemming from being a youngster and seeing all those Jesus movies that depicted him as a hero. I wanted to be that hero yet I didn’t have a clue what that kind of hero would encounter and how they would never think of themselves in that way. It was a human egotistical way of seeking to be an elevated being others would look up to. I still see that influence with me at times but his characteristics are quite apparent though it’s easy for that Luciferian space alien fallen angel mind to creep in and especially when one has begun a relationship with the same living beings who are the chief administrators of garden earth and who I can offer proof of to anyone who dares to look into, but that is not important to me for anyone else to see value in because I was given another chance after they left to conquer my boogers.

Now I can pick apart a lot of what these two said but three points stand out in addition to not talking about why they were left behind. One is calling oneself by the name of Telah, when it’s clear that abbreviation means, “The Evolutionary Level Above Human”. That would be equivilent to taking the name, “Kingdom of God” or Kingdom of Heaven”, which really more accurately would be translated to “Kingdom of Deities” at the least and “Kingdom in the literal heavens (sky to outerspace elevated areas)”. How can one or two people have one name that represents a Kingdom of Older Members that includes the Chief of Chiefs, the Oldest Member of the Next Level? When I saw that it blew me away, not because it’s a name but because that seems to me to be the same booger who overcame me and my vehicle with myself, the reason he fell away and after being given many opportunities to change went more and more against his Older Members to where he became imprisoned on earth, though useful as a catalyst to challenge upcoming graduates.

Obscurity can have it’s place to try to protect us from those that might do us harm when we have done nothing wrong against the Creators of our world, the Next Level Older Members. But why not be straight forward and say, “my name is “M” and my partners name is “S” for instance or whatever names they choose. Both of them are 61 and one is male and the other is female. When someone like us is doing anything public taking names we weren’t born with is a good thing that Ti and Do taught us, because we don’t want to be interfered with and we don’t want our vehicles families to be adversely affected by our choices when we know there will be some who will hate us.

Then to say “There is no heaven or hell, only an endless cycle of reincarnation” is totally against what Ti and Do taught and anyone can easily prove it by many things Ti and Do and Crew said that you can find posted on heavensgate.com. This is the slant that booger or the equivilent booger puts on the truth to present a facsimile, because Luci for instance, according to Ti and Do resents the Next Level for imprisoning him on earth and will do anything he can do to strike back at the Next Level and plus he needs “souls” and compatible vehicles to his thinking to be his associates.

Part Two of three of response to M and S interview:

Do said the earth is going to be spaded, recycled. He said the earth itself is still a good planet but that the current civilization have become infested by the weeds, what Jesus called “tares” that are actually taking one another out as we speak, the reason we will see more and more corruption and killing in the U.S. from within, because the Heaven’s Gate graduates have exited, so the environment is no longer protected for their sakes and they also turn up the heat, the truth that forces each of us to become exactly what we are. If we thought nasty thoughts – thoughts about doing harm to others, now they can hardly contain themselves to act those thoughts out. And the alchemist meds many are addicted to compound the issues.

No heaven? That sounds like John Lennon, “imagine there’s no heaven, easy if you try” – well I know a friend of a channeler of John Lennon and she says he says the same things now. That’s because the mindset we die with we continue to act out and bring as an influence to others. Now of course we should be civilized enough to not kill one another, to have peace in the way we treat one another. That is the way of the Next Level members to be kind and considerate but that is a toddler lesson step – “thou shall not kill”. Jesus updated that to “turn the other cheek” so that was great that Mahatma Ghandi did and Martin Luther King did and others. But the overall task was to “love the lord god with all your heart all your mind, all your soul and all your strength” that these other lesson steps would lead up to. Saying there is no heaven is like saying, “imagine there’s no planets, no sun above us, above us only nothingness”. The reason turning the other cheek is a lesson step because when one loses their vehicle adhering to a Next Level lesson step as that, means They take that Mind/Spirit into one of their spacecrafts and give it a new task and even a new vehicle because it is the “Mind/Spirit” that is what the garden produces for the Next Level. They don’t need us but it’s their joy to offer what they know they have that is very, very real but it’s a place of work that’s a hoot to be a part of.

No Hell? Hell as it’s used in Revelations 6:8, a huge verse to understand among current events comes from the greek “hades” which is also seen as the equivilent to Pluto. Hell in it’s figurative definition is a place of no return having no longer the potential to become a member of the Next Level. Hades is the Greek god of the under world – It was interesting when the New Horizons spacecraft flew by Pluto this past July and took pictures that showed Pluto to be very much like earth minus the oceans. It has a blue atmosphere, geysers, red ice mountains, deep caverns, a huge white smooth spot and 4 rectangular shaped 200 mile wide black spots that are equidistantly spaced from one another so they look like 4 black piano keys. This is most intersting in light of the movie script Ti and Do directed in 1982 that they said was “fiction based on the truth” where Pluto was a spacecraft that inside it had a scale living model of the earth with observatins decks and stationary spacecrafts at each of four corners. (The four winds?) And they said on it’s north pole that by the way would face away from us as Pluto is on it’s side, there was a huge circular louvered door that would open and close to allow spacecrafts to come and go from. I don’t know if the implication comes across.

And speaking of that Rev 6:8 verse where there is a “green horse” depicted, green actually comes from the greek chloros like chlorine the green powder that kills bacteria (weeds) and represents “harvest green” and the Dawn spacecraft is actually as we speak I believe still orbiting dwarf planet Ceres, named after the roman goddess of the harvest who is the same greek goddess Demeter. I say Do was the Rev 6:2 one sitting on his white horse, the vehicle he made pure but also is seen as white skinned while that was followed by G.W. Bush as red horse a Luciferian space alien is sitting on that brings endless war and that was followed by the black horse Obama a Luciferian was sitting on whose task was to try to ride herd the two beasts (the U.S. and the E.U.) involving the financial crisis that involved the stock market’s commodities prices of “wheat and barley” with lots to say about all this leading up to the next US beast president who will in many ways be GREEN.

I’ve got no beef with M and S actually. We learned to deal with criticism – to wear the shoe if we examine it and it fits. If it doesn’t fit, don’t wear it.

There is no group anymore, like M and S said and suicide never was a solution. In fact one of the classmembers wrote a paper saying that killing one’s vehicle to escape difficult lessons is the real waste as we need our vehicles to learn our lessons. The human kingdom was created as a stepping stone into the Next Level. Suicide is separating ourselves from the Next Level creators of it all because then we won’t be given further opportunities to live both in a human vehicle at the next classroom with an incarnate Older Member which will not then become the opportunity to graduate into the Level Above Human where real life really begins because we are then no longer temporary plant lifeforms. But the formula to please the Older Member which is like pleasing one’s professor, is to “give our life”. How, when and where is up to us but a huge step in that direction in this life is to choose to put yourself in the Next Levels hands, asking to become one of their upcoming students and trusting they will help us separate from our humanness in a way we can handle. There is no pie in the sky. We need to show them we mean business by working for them. That work at this time is to “stand for Ti and Do”, study and believe in all they said and did. We are not going to necessarily understand everything but it will come in time. Events will be helping us towards this kind of choice of who to make our master. We are all going to lose our vehicles eventually. It’s a matter of whose service we are in when we lose our vehicle. Since you all have heard about Ti and Do you are on the spot but each is judged according to what they were given whether they heard about Ti and Do or not.

May Ti and Do’s force be with you all, but you’ve got to ask them for it if you want it.

Part Three of three of response to M and S interview:

This is also a misleading thing to say, “In the mid-’90s, we served as their communication center, which we still do today.” Maybe it’s the way I read it as implying they receive current communication from Ti and Do and Crew and then distribute that to others, which is not the case. They have the task to maintain the web site and respond to queries but anyone who distributes Ti and Do’s information is also then a communication “center”. One should ask them if they are the communication center how come after all these years they don’t provide the hundreds of audio meeting tapes Ti and Do made for the student body from 1982 to 1997. We actually do have about 218 of these but it was against their will that we have them, a long story I don’t care to get into. I have most of the communications they received a short time before the group left because they didn’t want the task at first so turned it over to another dropout believer named rkkody who later layed down his life but not before he made digital copies of 200 or so of the tapes and sent them to people, me included.

Saying 8 were “left behind” is misleading too. All who didn’t leave were dropouts. We left the group. They didn’t leave us until it was clear we didn’t want to be with them. There were zero left behind to carry out tasks but it’s the Next Level way to take advantage of those that still want to serve, even if they can’t make the grade of being in the classroom. We are seeing how the truth becomes distorted in seemingly little ways to where even those who are doing the distortion don’t recognize it necessarily or ignore or think it’s not important to be real wordy about.

I don’t know where the number 8 and 4 came from. But where does the number start and stop. There were about 100 who were students in 1976 when meetings were called to a hault by Ti saying “the harvest is closed”. Ti and Do sent 19 of those out of the group saying they weren’t ready telling the remaining group they “made the first cut”. By 1978 there were no more than 60 original “odys”. That name extension represented those who Ti and Do said were “adopted”. By 1993 that number was down to 24, I suspect mostly representing the prophecy of the 24 elders. Then some who had left were given the option to return and it rose to around 32 that didn’t include M and S. A few more rejoined in 1994 and maybe a dozen new members joined in 1994 but then I fell away as did a few other rejoiners and some of the new ones left to end up with the 38. So I would guess at about 70 total who took a stab at graduating which is interesting in the fact that Jesus had 70 to 82 to 90 something students, counting some of the female disciples we know about.

When M and So were asked, “Where are your directives coming from? Were they left behind for you by leadership prior to their journey?” and they said, “From the Next Level. They left very specific instructions.” that to me is also misleading. Why not say, most of the communications were from Do’s “helpers” that included Lvvody, Jnnody, Lggody and Jwnody and perhaps others like Sngody and Evnody or to keep it short by “Do’s crew of students”. That’s like a politician being asked who voted on the bill and they say, “congress”. I know M told me Do also talked to them but I know the letters that were their primary communication were signed by “helpers” or “pursers” if I recall correctly.

When M and So were asked, “What’s the next step for you? For Heaven’s Gate?” and they answered, “We are to take care of this task. We don’t know when we will rejoin them.” may be assuming a lot. I don’t know if any of the dropouts have it made. Do spoke about “three types of people who would go with them” when the rest are recycled. Primary that included those who had sufficiently completed their metamorphosis (overcoming of humanness) as he referred to the 38 as qualifying. The second type were those who began their metamorphosis but didn’t have the strength to sufficiently complete it to receive significant Next Level service so would have to return to the human kingdom after the recycling to finish. The third group are those who never hear about Ti and Do but are separating from the world in their own way. It seems apparent that we who dropped out who still believe would have to be included in the second type but whether we are satisfactorily “separating from our humanness” and making “significant changes” as Do said as well and “standing for Ti and Do and accepting the consequences” another description of all the types relative to what they were given as Jesus also said was the criteria is frankly not for us to know. After all just like we see in Christianity and Jesus talked about, many will say, “Lord Lord, we prophecy in your name….” but he said he doesn’t know them. Saying the words is a small part and can even morph to “taking the name of the lord in vain”.

When M and S said, “They periodically come down to this planet to check in on this civilizations development.” – Sure that’s true but “check development” is one heck of a lackadaisical image. They are consciously working like crazy doing all things that it takes to bring a group of souls to graduation. Nothing happens by itself when it comes to some souls choosing to grow towards graduation. They are intricately involved with “tagging” human vehicles they plan to “take over” for their task. Before that they work on the human kingdom to produce vehicles that can be a “match” for returning Souls to take over. They work with all levels of life. Ti and Do said it was move up time for all levels of life.

On the question; “I found the statement against suicide on the website fascinating. Why did Heaven’s Gate decide to put this statement out there?”

They knew suicide was what many or even most humans would call what they did, but they knew that really wasn’t accurate in their case but it goes to understanding what LIFE really is – all from the perspective of the Creators in the Level Above Human, which is apparent in the way Jesus also defined life as being (existing) in his Older Members Kingdom, in that record contextually, with and in service to his “Father (Older Member) in the literal heavens (outer space dwelling places)”. Thus death is the opposite – not being in the literal Kingdom in the heavens with one’s Older Members.

Of course if one doesn’t believe in any of this then none of this makes sense. But Ti and Do and Crew of students believed in it 100% and most of the students had been with Ti and Do since 1975 when they were ready to give their life then because they felt like they recognized the truth of what Ti and Do said.

Ti and Do considered every way they might return and every way their students might go to the Next Level, thinking of it in a number of ways, at first thinking they and their students would go back with their human physical bodies.

Even in their last days in those bodies they tried to be prepared for Ti (who was already outside her human body since 1985) to take them with their physical bodies if that was her choice. That’s why they packed a small travel bag with a change of clothes and had their passports and a little money – $5.75 – the amount that came from what Samuel Clemmons writing as Mark Twain said was the fare to ride the tail of Halley’s comet to heaven. He wrote that and produced a short movie that Edison actually filmed called “Captain Stormfields trip to heaven”. We also always had a procedure when leaving our “craft” (what we called the house we lived in) to take $5.00 in case of emergency for a phone call for instance. That’s what I told some reporters the $5.75 probably was which I later learned was wrong.

The companion that was filmed by the Hawaii and a Japanese observatory proven to not be a star in the background of the pic of Hale Bopp wasn’t the reason they chose to exit at that time as I believe your article stated. They even said this on the heaven’s gate web site. They said that the comet was the sign or marker they had been waiting for that told them when to exit.

By that time they had determined that humans against them were not going to do them in the way humans did to Jesus and his disciples.  They also had examined buying a boat and going into the sea to see if the Next Level would pick them up following seeing the cocoon movie and at that time considered exiting by sinking the boat if we weren’t picked up but Do nixed that idea though he did buy a boat we had docked in the Houston area for a while.

In 1989 or so Do instigated a fast on air. We were living outdoors at that time again in the Arizona desert just west of Phoenix. We had a bunch of trailers and two rows of tents that were all connected to one another to make two corridors. We had generators for lights and had two large satellite dishes and were watching all the news we could get from feeds and the evangelicals as we had been considering going public again as “who we are” as the return of the Father, Jesus and his students as promised. But Do wasn’t sure about doing another public mission so off into the desert we went and after one day on air Do changed the fast to add water. 12 days later Do stopped the fast.  I had been ready to curl up in bed and die then, though I learned that some weren’t thinking that was part of what we might do.

So we moved closer to Yuma with our camp and Do felt like we were to wait for a pickup, which was the second time we’d scheduled a specific day for pickup the first scheduled by Ti in about 1980. At that time, the pickup didn’t happen and Ti told Do she felt like she had “egg on her face”, but it didn’t change anything and interestingly some left after that as it had been 5 years since the group formed. In 1975 some students pressured Ti and Do for how long before they would leave. They always thought in terms of “months”. Reluctantly Ti said, “no more than 5 years” which she later regretted saying. But it didn’t phase their core students that there was no pickup and there was no pickup when Do scheduled it either and that didn’t phase the core students either.

Do also paid people to leave the class if they were only staying because it was more comfortable than trying to survive in what Ti called the “real world”. They knew they were creating a type of experimental world for us.

Before that there were two times that Ti and Do encouraged all of us to pay a visit to anyone in the world who had anxiety about us still as we had learned about a network of parents and siblings of our vehicles looking for us to include private investigators.

Most all of us flew somewhere in the U.S. for a weekend with our vehicle’s family. From that, one decided he wanted to leave the group. He returned and spoke with Do about it and I was assigned to partner with him and I don’t recall having much to report to Do. It wasn’t like I was a spy but if something occurred to me to talk about Do wanted to know about it.

So when we had no problems from humans who heard and saw us in our 1994 public meeting/media schedule all over the U.S. no matter how boldly we made the posters to say, it was the same one who was in the vehicle Jesus returned, Do felt like the only option remaining was to self exit as he couldn’t imagine waiting for each member to grow old and die to exit that way.

At one point in about 1990 Do contracted rocky mountain spotted fever and told some of us who visited him he knew that he could leave his vehicle then and that he asked Ti (who was outside her vehicle then) but Do knew was at times very close to him and at other times not so close, (however she might have accomplished that). He said, Ti said he could exit if he wanted to. But Do felt like he couldn’t abandon his task with the students.

A couple years before that he said to the students, “what if I’m not from the Next Level but am a well intended human? Would you all still want to be with me?”. I couldn’t imagine it. Some of the other students were quick to say it didn’t matter to them. I don’t think I knew what to think about it but it didn’t phase me to entertain the question.

In 1993 when the 90 men women and children of the Branch Davidians were murdered by the ATF/FBI I was sitting in Do’s craft with lvvody and jnnody and srrody (my partner at the time) and watching the story live on television. Do and all of us were shocked by it. Do later wondered aloud whether his students would be so dedicated to die for what they believed in, though he didn’t agree with David Koresh at all. It also made him consider if we might exit by provoking the government by having a gun. That was a test to hear but it made me wonder how dedicated was I. I put it on the back burner until it became a reality. I didn’t have a problem with it as I knew we wouldn’t actually try to harm anyone.

In 1996 they were building an earthship house (out of tires) on a property they bought southeast of Albuquerque and they had at least one rifle that strody (then a grey haired woman in her 60’s) did some target shooting of as they were still wondering if they might exit in that way.

They left that gun in storage.

Then in 1995 Rio reported that they were near Tucson and one night 3 students saw two small 4 ft tall looking white beings in the craft. They each saw these two from a different angle. Three other students including Rio felt they dreamed about these two beings in the craft. One report was they were standing by one students bunk where they were sleeping and felt they were helping her. That next morning Do and the overseers were all really smiling a lot and Do felt it was the visit he was hoping the students would raise their vibrations to be able to see.

I equate that with Jesus being visited by two beings of that similar description where three students saw them. That was called the “transfiguration”. Ti and Do felt that was when Jesus had completed changing over his body into a next level body inside.

Ti said early on that you don’t have to die to go to the Next Level. In that context “die” referred to exiting one’s human vehicle, but one does have to “change over” into a Member of the Next Level to go without dropping the vehicle as evidenced in the records by Enoch, Moses and Elijah and in a different context Jesus as his vehicle was healed from it’s dead condition and then he demonstrated taking that same body that was still physical but had new functions into the spacecraft cloaked by the clouds. He said, “I am not a spirit… a spirit doesn’t have flesh and bones”. He ate with them. He let them touch his body and see the remnant of the wounds. And yet he could change his vibrations so that he was invisible to them which one can imagine being like a chameleon against the invisible but very real atmosphere of our  human environment.

Ti and Do initially taught and this never changed, that the human condition was like a caterpillar world and how a caterpillar had the capacity in it to build itself a cocoon to then put all it’s energy into the chrysalis condition which is equivilent to a human being separated from their human world as Jesus and Ti and Do’s students were required to do to be students which meant leaving all that constituted their life at that time – their family, house, career goals, even likes and dislikes to put all their energy into the “process” that was actually the “christing” process as a Christ was someone who “overcame the human world”. If you actually break it down it is an “anointed one” where anointing was the process of “pressing” the oil from the olive. Thus the olive is the human vehicle and the press is putting pressure to extract Next Level Mind through it’s usage. Mind is synonymous with “spirit”. The Next Level literally starts this process by giving select humans (many of them) what is actually a seed called a soul. Do called it a “pocket” or a “container” that wasn’t just a container. It was a smart container in that in had with it a set of programs that provided an interface to other Next Level Members. There are different forms of this container, aka a “chip” as in computer chip. Do said to envision this “soul” one would see the human body as a glass vase that had one balloon extending out of it from the top of the vase that was the container for human mind. When a human is given a “soul container” the vase has a second balloon extending out of it. The second container can only contain Next Level quality Mind. I am only remembering now how Ti used to often say about mixing Next Level and human behaviors and ways as “Oil and water don’t mix”. That is interesting because Jesus compared Water with the human being saying to his students they needed to be “born again of water” in order to be born of spirit/mind that we also know was related to oil.

I suspect Do took seeing those two beings in the craft as confirmation that his plan of exit was approved. I don’t know that and have nothing more to go on so could be wrong about that.

Do told the class he felt those who dreamed it had woke up and were told to go back to sleep.

Interestingly even seeing/dreaming that as the six did, didn’t stop a couple of the new students from the 1994 meetings from choosing to leave the class and one was Rio. He was the one who they sent the fedx that led to his going to their craft to discover their deceased vehicles and who was on the cover of people magazine after that.  Last I heard from him he said he was done with disseminating Ti and Do’s info following the book he published entitled “Beyond Human Mind”.

All this thinking was combined with knowing how Jesus had spoken about laying down one’s life as the greatest way to show love, also saying, “no man takes it (my life) from me – I have the power to lay it down and the power to take it back up again”.

So did Jesus commit suicide even though the high priests and government were the instruments. He chose to turn himself into those who he knew from many evidences wanted to kill him because he was causing their followers to think differently.

Ti and Do were not against euthanasia. They felt if someone was too sick to take advantage of life – to make choices to learn lessons and grow from them then they should be allowed to end their own life.

This idea that suicide is a mortal sin is a fabrication. The law to not kill another human was just that for a human to not kill another human. It had nothing to do with oneself though they were not in favor of suicide to escape dealing with difficult lessons, which is really a big part of the real meaning of suicide. I someone choose to run in front of another to take a bullet they are considered a hero, but if one chooses to self stimulate exit for their idea of God’s it’s fanaticism.

Ti’s exit by dying as Revelations 12 says of her (the woman) – “the earth opened up it’s mouth” to take her, which was a way people had spoke about going to the grave, I believe did introduce Do to considering how they might all exit.

Even in 1992 I was in Do’s quarters in his craft as I was helping move things into a truck as we were moving to another craft, I saw the book by the Hemlock society that is all about ways to kill oneself. Soon after that it became part of the student library though I don’t recall ever talking about it.

As they said, it was the timing of the hale bopp comet with the spring solstice, and ascension time that was their sign to go home by exiting their vehicles. The ascension did occur. It was a spirit birth, that’s unseen by human eyes except by understanding it which remains our choice.

Thus after all they went through, they felt called home by Ti regardless of whether the reported companion was there or not. Had then experienced all that and then chose not to follow through would be like saying “no” to Ti because at that point for them it was time to go so they could get on with the next part of the program.

That’s why I insist it was voluntary for them.

I  have been approached by at least 3 people who told me they believed in Ti and Do and wanted to exit because they were miserable in this corrupt world. I told them they could be making a huge mistake. They were trying to escape learning their lessons. We need these vehicles to learn our lessons through. Do left the option open but said anyone who feels to do that should go to the desert southwest and scream to their heavenly Father to know whether that is right for them.

As I was re-awakening, that included many dreams with Ti and Do and certain classmates helping me with, because I must have needed that help, I got up the courage to ask Do if I should prepare my vehicle to lay down my vehicle as they did. He came to me as clear as a bell the same night and said, “you need to give your life”. So that’s what I am attempting to do and am looking to them for help in each step.

M and S were asked, “Why do you choose to keep the Heaven’s Gate website up and running?” M and S response: “The information must be available to mankind, in preparation for their return.”

Yes, available, but NOT in preparation for their return, though there is a vague truth to that. It’s for NOW – for people now who come to their information and want to know more because the Next Level isn’t done. To not talk about this is denying Ti and Do’s intention all along. For instance why put out a statement, “Last Chance to Evacuate Earth Before It’s Recycled”, a video Do made in September of 1996 that talks about “3 types of individuals” who can go with them, if it didn’t apply immediately, where he also talked about those in type 3 never having heard about Ti and Do? That means even if someone doesn’t ever see the heavensgate.com web site or anything about Ti and Do, they can still qualify to “go with them”.

Now where it is correct to say, “when they return” relates to the records that Ti and Do said “In the seventh closeness… (they said they as the Two Witnesses were the sixth closeness) would be the “completion of the final prophecies in John’s Book of Revelation” adding, “The one who was Jesus will come in at close range (as soon as those who have chosen to change over do it) and receive the elect into his company, for they have been those he has nurtured since the beginning of this civilization.” This was in “A Statement Prepared by The Two” in the book by Hayden Hewes and Brad Steiger entitled, “UFO Missionaries Extraordinary” that was exclusively about Ti and Do and that Ti and Do gave them interviews for. Now this Statement seems to have been written before their first public meetings that began in North Hollywood (Isaiahs “valley of vision” he referred to as Jerusalem) and thus some aspects seem to have had updates, though can also be seen in different ways and especially when one examines the Revelations in this light as it does seem that Do is returning in the vehicle he changed over that was named Jesus 2000 years ago, after the Next Level is “done” with providing hints and clues of their reality to the human kingdom.

When they had their first private meeting in North Hollywood in the home of a leader of a spiritual meditation group in early April 1975 to a packed house there were “several dozen” that wanted to know more so came to another meeting the next night and wanted to leave all behind to follow them which Do reported in “’88 Update – The UFO Two and their Crew” they realized was “… adding up to “followers” – a big surprise and an idea not too welcome as far as Ti and Do were concerned!”. This is further evidence that Ti and Do at that stage in their awakening (a continuous planned but gradual process), before then didn’t think they were to have followers. They thought they would just share the information they were both receiving (separately) until they were “bumped off” as is one translation of the fate of the Two Witnesses in Revelations chapter 11, but turned out they were “shot down by the national press” – another valid interpretation I’ve written a great deal about on my blog.

I’m saying this because in Revelations 14 primarily there are two harvest periods depicted and in a number of places evidence that the first one was 42 students (38+4 later) and that they exited by “falling on their faces in service to deities” (Rev 11:16 and other places) while the second harvest was through the “winepress” that produces bloodshed. – in other words those who tell the truth and meet up with some who hate what they say and seek to kill them to stop them.

(now that hasn’t happened yet because that more or less begins starting with the 5th seal of revelations chapter 6 and we are just coming into the fourth seal with the next presidential election in the US.)

So it is true what M and S said about not knowing when that next return happens, but what was not said that needs to be said is that the criteria for who benefits from the content of the heaven’s gate web site and all the other ways in which people are coming to learn about Ti and Do IS preparation for their return but that prep starts now and will be seen the conclusion of during our normal lifetimes – (said in yet other places) which is getting close to that point, perhaps in the next decade or two even, where M and S made it sound (to me) like it was to become another religion that people would have time to study and make into careers and build cathedrals about – all Luciferian ways to dilute the truth though that the Next Level can make a positive out of.

Tags: ceres, Christian, Jesus, Pluto, Ti and Do