Sawyer’s critique of Mark’s Interview – Heaven’s Gate II: The Graduation by Bardo Methodology

Sawyer’s critique of Mark’s Interview – Heaven’s Gate II: The Graduation – 12-29-2022

The text of the Interview of Mark (Mrcody in TI and DO’s Group) by Niklas Göransson is included point by point with my critique. Here is the article link:

Heaven’s Gate II: The Graduation

A. Sawyer’s Introduction

I know some of what I will be responding to might be seen as nit picky and some of what I will be saying is giving my understanding and doesn’t necessarily negate what Mark (Mrcody) is saying. At the same time, it seems to me some of the more important perspectives and even events and instructions are being left out. I understand that at times each Student could have a different viewpoint or recollection, so at times I could be wrong, but I am trying to stick to what I experienced as best I can so that the reader can stand the best chance possible to garner what is most likely the most true or that there were multiple viewpoints that could even all be correct in some way. It’s not my intention to treat everything Mark says with suspicion. I don’t really care to be fault finding. That’s actually not one of the areas I’ve been told by TI and DO I needed to work on. And though I have said that certain things both Mark and Sarah (Srfody) have said over the years were untrue and even seemed like lies, I don’t know if they are lies or that they have repeated certain points of view and perspectives for so long that they believe they are being truthful or truthful enough.

DO talked about there existing “sins (missing the mark) of omission and sins of commission”. DO did not often refer to the records humans call scriptures but this quote does come from those Records. In this context Sins of Omission are when someone omits saying something that would provide a far more honest account that shows what really was said or done so needs to be said, while Sins of Commission in this context are when they say something against the Next Level Above Human. I believe this interview contains many examples of both sins of omission and commission against DO and against the Next Level Above Human and least of which against me and indirectly against Cathy and Carlan in Mark and Sarah’s lawsuit against us for freely sharing TI and DO’s fantastic information with the world. We know this is happening because the Lower Forces influlence people to keep the in depth understanding of what TI and DO and Crew were all about away from people and also to put a bad light on the entire story of TI and DO as after all if the ones running the Heaven’s Gate website for many years, given that task to among others to Mark and Sarah to keep fulfilling then many people think Mark and Sarah’s choices might be best reflecting of what TI and DO were all about. This seems to be the same Lower Forces stragegy used after Jesus left by trying to divert Jesus’ thunder to make a religion approved by the state out of it and then to become the religion called Christianity that gives Jesus a bad name because of their deceitful and manipulative and judgemental, dictatorial, condescending, murderous behaviors and ways.

What I have experienced in critiquing several of the email interviews Mark and/or Sarah have given over the years is that they often Omit what I feel are very important details. That seems to be the case here as well as it seems they downright add things, even directly talking about DO even saying things to Mark and Sarah that I don’t believe DO said that we can even show evidence that DO probably didn’t say. Sure they might have interpreted things DO said or twisted what he said to be something they could live with. But we have audio tapes of DO explaining things regarding Mark and Sarah’s being sent out of the Classroom that contradict what Mark says here in this interview. We also have Rkkody’s manuscript of the events that transpired after he and Mark and Sarah and Oscar (Oscody) received FedX packets from DO and Crew on March 25, 1997 that contradict big time Mark and Sarah’s version of that time. They don’t necessarily lie but they just omit talking about what happened in any detail or just get one thing wrong like the date which they can then say, Oh we just forgot about the date. They could have many excuses for what Mark says here that can be shown to be out right wrong or inaccurate.

The way the author of this article formatted his article was mostly starting the presumed email interview response from Mrcody (Mark) with a dash. I include the subject spoke about by the author as context. In my response I will refer to Mrcody as Mark and Srfody as Sarah, the first names they have used for years to date.

B. Start of Article by it’s author Niklas Göransson with Mark’s (Mrcody) answer followed by Sawyer’s (Swyody) replies:

Niklas:

The first part of this interview series chronicled Mrcody’s first twelve years in what we know today as Heaven’s Gate. We left off in the fall of 1987 as he went home to Phoenix, Arizona, to see his parents. At that point, Mrcody had not been back there since September 1975 when he made a quick visit to get his affairs in order before bidding his family goodbye. Along with him was his check-partner, Srfody.

1. Mark: (Mrcody):

– When returning to the families, we’d usually bring a Classmate we could bounce ideas off. They would help to clarify the situation if things got confusing. My family had grown used to me being away and thought of us as somewhat of a curiosity. We found ourselves distant from their views and way of life. We sat down, spoke with them, and tried to relay our story as clearly and positively as possible. We were kind and pleasant, as were they. Hoping to figure out what had happened to us, they asked careful questions. At times, it was like being examined – as if our views were unusual and it wasn’t really an issue whether we stayed or left. We felt the same way.

1. Sawyer (Swyody):

I was puzzled by this account of the event of Mark visiting his parents in 1987 as it indicates he was with Sarah. That would mean Sarah went on at least two trips to visit families as she went with me to visit my family at the same time period which in part I believe was because Sarah’s dad lived in the same town where my parents lived as Sarah and I were partners in the world before we both joined with TI and DO from the Waldport, OR meeting on September 14, 1975. I was on the airplane with her when I visited my family and briefly went to her house in Plainview, NY (but I was not really welcomed there so left before seeing anyone).

This 1987 visit was the second such visit we ever did as a Group. The first visit was around late September or early October of 1983 when TI was still in her vehicle. Like I said on the first visit if there were exceptions where more than one classmember went together to visit one’s family member, I didn’t know about it and I doubt that happened. On that 1983 visit I went alone to NY and others also went alone. I welcomed back to the Class a number of other students who came back alone because they went alone. This is important to me to make note of as with the many critics of TI and DO, I can hear some saying something to the effect of, “this is what cults do…they send someone else to keep tabs on the other, to keep them from saying something the leaders didn’t want them to say,” etc. So that blows that criticism out of the water that on the first visit most if not all went alone.

On the second visit in 1987, thus after TI left her vehicle in June of 1985, I recall DO saying he was sending other students to visit with our families so our parents and siblings, etc. could see the kind of people we were living with in the Class. Thus at my second visit in 1987 Ollody and Jwnody (and Srfody (Sarah)) visited with my parents and siblings and others at my parents house. I also went to visit with Jwnody’s mother and I believe Ollody and perhaps Sarah was there as well. It was a brief meeting with Jwnody’s mother. I didn’t actually talk with her nor any other members of her family. They wanted to be alone.

On that second visit I wasn’t with another classmate hardly at all. I was mostly alone. During the day I arrived I was alone with my parents and siblings talking. No other students were with me until Ollody and Jwnody and Srfody came to my parents house and stayed for maybe an hour. After that I was alone with them until my dad took me to Kennedy International Airport to return to Colorado.

Mark makes it sound like this was some kind of regular occurrence Perhaps he’s prone to exaggerating certain facts to appeal to those who accused us of neglecting family. I don’t know why he’d use the word, “usually” re: such visits as there was nothing “usual” about them. It certainly wasn’t “usual” to bring a Classmate either as we only had two visits in 19 years I was with Them and I thought only the second one included bringing another classmate.

I don’t know why Mark says the other classmate went with him or others to “bounce ideas off of” as on my two visits if I had wanted to bounce ideas off of someone I could just call the Group collect. In fact while on my visit I did call the group. On my visits there wasn’t much to coordinate. On the second visit when Sarah and I traveled by air together, I don’t recall we came back together. I didn’t need anyone to bounce ideas off of. Maybe for his visit he needed that help but I had no ideas to do anything else but what I did and for me it was easy to answer their questions.

I recall the primary instructions with both visits was that our effort was to try to “relieve any anxiety” of these family members by showing them some of what we were doing and that we were free to leave and were happy. (We had no prep to put up a false happiness front. If we weren’t happy TI and DO would have had us leave the Group well before that). I was genuinely happy in the Group so I didn’t have to try to put up some front of happiness. TI and DO did spend several hours meeting with us going over our questions.

Since I am speaking of the visits and in particular the first visit in 1983 here are some notes from audio tape 63 where TI and DO present the visit task potential and help students know how to handle certain questions, not to give them a script but to handle the task as a Member of the Next Level would in that circumstance that even involves a certain amount of strategy. After all, TI and DO knew loved ones were not going to really comprehend what their loved one’s had chosen and why as we were embarking on something that for many seems crazy. So some might still have great bitterness at their loved one’s choices and may even blame us for others in the families failing health as if those things would not have happened had we stayed close to that family unit. Yet TI and Do also didn’t feel to let someone talk to us in a derogatory manner but try to express understanding while knowing they had a right to their choices in life, in this case to be apart from what others might consider to be a normal family life. Many won’t believe much of what we believe. DO felt like Nancy Brown really grew from her suffering They didn’t say that lightly. They said they suffered because of the suffering of those family members but that it was needed for a student to detach from their human family and put the kind of effort needed for an extended time of bonding with the Family unit of their Older Members whom they recognized.

Ti and Do were concerned for our security so that anyone that did want to interfere with our choice to stay in the group couldn’t easily find us. They also knew because of the Network of parents that understandably were wanting to know about their loved ones, that we wanted to give them hope of further connection with us while not expecting a close relationship because of the major task each student needed to focus on to qualify to graduate into Next Level Membership. TI and DO even spoke about how anyone could do whatever they wanted to do in the Class but then laughed that if that’s what they wanted to do they wouldn’t find themselves staying in the Classroom but it was all about choices. They even said if a student found they wanted to stay with their family to just please send them a card or call to tell them about that choice.

Hearing Mark describing his visit, I wondered why would DO have Mark go to visit his family with Sarah. Well, it was possible Mark and Sarah were assigned partners at that time. DO, being in TI’s service, though TI was outside her vehicle, had an uncanny connection with TI to where he was just following instructions to choose to form certain partnerships with other students. I don’t think it was an accident that Sarah went with me and come to think of it, as it turned out Sarah being sent with Mark, as if there was an element of the same kind of test. In other words TI would have known that Mark and Sarah were forming their own relationship with one another. As soon as they got back from the visit Mark was showing his lack of abiding by the “I could be wrong” program and as Carlan (Crlody) told me he learned in the group (evidenced by DO in audio tapes) that they didn’t want to change their partnership when it came up and that was in part why they left together. Partnerships changed all the time. There were some times I didn’t want to change partnerships as some partners were too stressful to be with and with some partners there was chemistry that needed to be overcome thus would put one to the test to have certain partners. It would seem that Mark and Sarah were one such partnership and DO had instructions to put them together as a partnership to test what they each wanted, a relationship with one another or a relationship with him only.

Even though I knew nothing then of the relationship Mark and Sarah were forming, that even they might not have fully realized, it showed itself when they left the class together though nothing was ever said that I heard about why Sarah was leaving with Mark until Crlody expressed what he did to me.

So it seems Mark is either forgetting what he was developing with Sarah while still in the Class or has blocked what was happening or is directly lying to try to quell the truth to save certain embarrassments because I have been talking about them for years and telling my perspective as a witness to how and why and when they were sent out of the Class. Mark has denied everything I said about it. Could I misremember every aspect? I don’t think so as that was a major event and we have DO in audio tapes talking about how Mark and Sarah had been in relationship to one another and no longer looking to him so that’s the proof that my remembrance and Carlan (Crlody’s) remembrance are far more accurate than what Mark is saying here and that they have said to Gizmodo and other media groups about their departure. Mark’s way seems to be to just leave out most of the truth.

But Speaking of lying, the problem with doing so is forgetting what the lies they told were. Here is an example of their changing their story:

Mark and Sarah were reported to have said in one of the first email interviews they gave to the author in a piece for Gizmodo. They were asked why they left the group and they responded:

“We left the Group in September, 1987 because we were going to take care of some other things in our lives… Free will and choice are the cornerstone of what anyone does, especially in the Next Level. Individuals in the Group could come and go as those chose to do, and many did just that over the years. We had an open door policy, and it swung both ways. People came and went all the time.”

So Mark says they left to take care of some things in their lives. But I thought Mark said in this interview in point number 4; “I don’t know why Srfody was sent along with me, but she was expected back soon..”. Plus note Mark said “…we left to take care of things…” but he said, “Srfody was sent along with me…”. SENT is the keyword here. The third part to this one sentence is “…sent to take care of some things…”. Doesn’t that indicate foreknowledge of things to take care of before they left, things to take care of together? It makes it sound like they had a plan to leave?

Then Mark and Sarah said, “…Individuals in the Group could come and go as those chose to do, and many did just that over the years. We had an open door policy, and it swung both ways. People came and went all the time.”

I get it, they seem to want to tell the public they were not a cult that holds people against their will which is true totally. But then they go to far with that as no one who expected to stay in the group could come a go as they chose to. If someone walked out the door and went to the store and came back, they would have been challenged with either never doing that again or with leaving the group and being helped to leave. And then they might never have the opportunity to come back as for one after someone left, as a matter of security of not being found by investigators we learned were looking for us, we would literally move to a new location sometimes in the same city but even same state. There were people sent out of the Class in 1976 that TI and DO lost touch with unintentionally years later who never sought very hard to find the group while a few did look for us and found us and rejoined when they did and DO found out about them. That was the case with Drrody and Stlody and some others. So it’s another totally false statement to say, “People came and went all the time” and unless Mark and Sarah had both become very senile some time before this Gizmodo article was written in september 2014 they seem to be directly lying.

Moving on, I think the same thing about Sarah being sent with me to visit families – it was a test of whether each of us wanted to be with one another or not. DO also talked about Sarah having entertained an influence she didn’t know about that was trying to use her to get me to not join the Class and/or to get me out of the Class. On my visit with her accompanying me on the airplane at one point sitting next to her on the plane it felt very strange as if she was intentionally rubbing her leg on mine. Also on that visit we for some reason found ourselves at a Baskin and Robbins in what was once upon a time both our home town and it stirred a memory I had of being with her there when we first got together in that town in about 1970. I fluffed it off as I also did with her sitting so close on the plane.

This was not new to me as one time in the 1980’s Sarah and I were partners in the Juice Lab and during our being on duty we had to work together to measure ingredients into these Pink Drinks we were consuming. Sarah was standing right up against me at one point. I was a bit shocked by it but was afraid of saying something or of pulling away abruptly to send her a message. I just ignored it thinking she didn’t mean to do it. It was some years later that Srrody told me Sarah had done the same thing to him. I didn’t know where to put that in my head so just ignored it. But well before that it was Sarah who had gone into a closet with Alxody and were “feeling one another up” in there. That got reported to the entire Class. I’m not sure who first reported it but I think it was Alxody who couldn’t stand to keep it hidden. These things, when I began to think of them reminded me of when Sarah and I joined the Class in 1975. We left Waldport/Newport together with Ron and Judy to meet up with the Class in Fruita, at the Colorado National Monument. We first drove to eastern Oregon and on that first night sleeping together in our zip together sleeping bag that we’d used for years as a couple to sleep in I was surprise that she seemed to be coming on to me, something she hadn’t done for years as I was almost always the instigator of relations. This was after we had both decided to join and knew we were taking a vow of celibacy. So in audio tape 847 where DO talked about my leaving I was blinded to how Influences wanted me to go to Phoenix area to stay with Mark and Sarah who were in that area since being sent out of the Class together.

When I got to their house the first and only thing I remember Sarah saying to me for the couple weeks I was there was “none of that sex stuff”. I had no conscious desire to have sex with her. All the years of the Classroom, I no longer had any attraction to her but I guess from what DO said, there was some kind of Influence with me that wanted to go to where she was. That influence even seemed to blind me to that desire. At that time I was so confused with why I was giving into sensuality with myself that I’m not surprised I don’t recall much.

In November of 2021, when I visited with Mark and Sarah at their lawyers office, which was the result of Cathy’s efforts to arrange, to try to resolve the conflict we’d had for years of their allowing me/us to do the dissemination task in whatever way I/We felt to do it, I had zero interest in seeing her or relating to her in any way. In fact I was repulsed by both she and Mark because of how they were going against TI and DO’s wishes with the Audio Tapes and other of their property that they were supposed to only be the dividers of, not the exclusive caretakers, managers and disseminators of, while not ever really disseminating any of the audios or the other materials beyond the minimum of keeping up the website. I never minded what they didn’t do but I really minded their trying to keep myself and Crlody and Rkkody and now Cathy from doing our own dissemination task that includes having access to all the audio tapes especially.

I hesitated saying all this publicly but Mark in this interview is so full of partial truths and seemingly outright lies and deceit and manipulation of other’s view of history that I have to tell it like it is from my experience and perspective.

Niklas:

After the trip, Mrcody and Srfody resumed their service in one of the Class’ lodgings – a house, or ‘craft’, in the suburbs of Boulder. A few weeks later, both of them were out of the Group.

2. Mark:

– There has been a lot of misinformation and ink given to this topic, so we might as well put it on record and let people know what happened. Something had come up about me being assigned a new Out of Craft (OOC) task right around the same time we were deliberating whether to leave the area. This occurred only a few weeks before the move to Atlanta. We had just purchased a rear-drive Cadillac, and I realized that – in a mountainous, snowy area – it might not be able to handle the job it would be required to do. I mentioned this issue to some individuals, and it made its way back to Do that I was bringing up ‘problems’ where it wasn’t needed.

2. Sawyer:

Mark says he wants to “put it on record” what happened to clear up the misinformation and the way he goes about it is to be about as vague as one could get as to what exactly happened. Talking about his getting an OOC Task. Who was talking about it, Classmates? DO? And what was wrong with talking about it? What happened to his applying TI and DO’s teachings to be thorough and detailed in communications? What about that was an issue in their leaving the group? What it seems to be is one of the “straws that broke the camel’s back” in his using and trusting his own mind. It’s fine in the world to trust one’s own mind but being with our Older Members, at that time, Students needed to apply seeking to only trust the Minds of TI and DO or don’t stay in Their program/classroom, which is what happened.

Then the subject of the Cadillac… What about that was an issue in their leaving the group? And how was DO involved in any of this? Again it sounds like his issues here were between him and fellow students. DO was not such a leader/teacher that he believed what any student told him about any kind of conflict or disagreement. He and TI talked about that in meetings that are on tapes and I believe I witnessed that when I was assigned to be in SAT 3, which was when Mark and Sarah were still in the Class, though I was then mostly an observer. SAT 3 stood for Satellite 3 and referred to a task assignment for a group of Students who TI and DO worked on organizational needs of the group.

To me these two points without any details are, whether conscious or not, like a smoke screen to appear to be addressing the subject but then only giving it tiny lip service. If anything, to me it does the opposite of what he says he intends to do – to “set the record straight”.

Mark writes:

“the automobile issue raised the notion that it was part of the whole ‘I could be wrong’ Mrcody problem. Certain people brought up instances of how I, over time, had made statements which seemed to confirm this attitude.”

Yes, fellow classmates were bringing things up where Mark had made statements which seemed to confirm the attitude that Mark didn’t think he could be wrong about. This even stems from 1982 or so when TI and DO saw that he needed to be “muted” for becoming a “wagon master” and/or “trail boss” when there were no trail bosses in the Next Level so Students needed to learn to operate as crew members that don’t have one person calling the shots.

So regarding the Cadillac. I don’t know what happened with this. However I do know something about how things worked in the group. For instance if Mark was on the crew that was looking for a car to buy or assessing a car DO was considering buying then no one would have anything to say about Mark talking about it or the way he was talking about it was with confidence in his own assessment thus not like a member of the Next Level would think or talk.

However, I’d guess he wasn’t on the car buying crew. He’s not providing enough details of what the problem was. Perhaps he felt to say something because as a member of SAT 3, (a crew who were all responsible to bring to Links attention things that might be a breach of security or in this case safety in driving a rear wheel vehicle in a snowy area. If he felt that responsibility then if not on the crew his recourse was to write a note to DO about it. Even if they bought a car that was the wrong decision, there is most always a grace period where one could return it. When someone is very sure of themselves, they often have a lot of trouble restraining themselves.

Mark writes, “We had just purchased a rear-drive Cadillac…” So this was put into the past tense. Thus it seems the deal had been made and I’m sure DO was very much in on all the details of the deal. DO was a 100% hands on leader. Often Lggody was instrumental in buying cars as he was tall and with white hair and in his 50’s probably at that time. He also had a strong air of a business person because in the world he was a successful horse rancher and real estate developer and family man and I’ve heard had political inclinations. Also in the Class at times he worked as a car salesman. So he knew how to talk the trade.

Now Mark could have been privy to talk about the car they were intending to purchase. So Mark reports he “mentioned this issue to some individuals” (regarding it being a rear wheel drive car in a snowy area). It really sounds like Mark may have been putting his nose into another Crews business. He had that tendency from what TI and DO said in audio tape 37 I think it was. Again there could have been a way to bring things up but if he wasn’t presenting it according to procedure to preface it with something of a equivalence to “I could be wrong” then he was missing the lessons step.

This all seems to reinforce the idea that he did leave because he had too much self confidence in his own opinion and didn’t know when he could be wrong with his opinions. That’s not the way of a Next Level Crew Member so he was called out on it and didn’t feel to change that about himself thus the only recourse DO had was to send him to be outside the Classroom until he might want to change and then he could return. He never did want to return to the Classroom yet at this time in 2021 we’ve even seen evidence that he thinks he is a member of the Heaven’s Gate crew left behind to carry on Their legacy, while keeping others away from Their vast audio tape library and other materials except for token minimum maintenance of the web site – answering some emails and giving certain materials to media groups, etc.

So this seems to be what Mark and Sarah have done. They came to believe that they and only they had all authority over all the left behind information and they became ready to sue anyone who breached their claimed authority.

Niklas:

I’ve come across a number of claims that Mrcody’s departure stemmed from his inability to adhere to a lesson step called ‘I could be wrong’. This was a technique designed to decrease reliance on the self – and one’s own desire to be right – by overriding both soft and hard-wired circuits of the brain. Instead, complete trust should be placed in one’s Older Members, which is Next Level nomenclature for a superior.

3. Mark:

– Things spiraled out of control until we had a support meeting on September 22, 1987. Do realized that the idea of me getting an OOC task had not come from him but from Classmates who were unaware of what the future held. We got past this matter, but the automobile issue raised the notion that it was part of the whole ‘I could be wrong’ Mrcody problem. Certain people brought up instances of how I, over time, had made statements which seemed to confirm this attitude. Needless to say, it was a difficult meeting for me. Afterwards, Do wanted to speak to me privately, and we did so for a while. He could see that I did not want to go, but circumstances were forcing things to a head. Srfody and I left the following day.

3. Sawyer:

-Help Wanted Meeting for Mark:

Regarding what Mark called “a support meeting,” I recalled the meeting name was being called by TI and DO and Crew a “Help Wanted Meeting” which I attended on Sept 22nd 1987, (that I recall Overseers, Jwnody and Chkody called for Mark, that I’m sure DO knew about though as was procedure Help Wanted Meetings were never attended by TI and/or DO, though there was an assigned note taker, (often Mllody and/or Sngody who sent them, or in this case sent DO, since TI wasn’t in her vehicle any longer at that time, a report of what transpired.

The way I recall that meeting, Mark sat in the front of the big room and students who had some ideas of how to help Mark made their suggestions. The procedure for the recipient was to thank the students for their input. I don’t recall Mark saying anything. He just seemed to take it and Classmates were not rude or condescending to him but certainly were direct, while knowing and expressing they could be wrong about how they were suggesting they’d been taught to help someone with this or any other problem in the Classroom.

I don’t know how thankful Mark was for what he was offered, as of course he was aware of what others would say as advise, but one never knows what one had ceased to apply so the meetings could help. Over the 19 years in the Class I would say there were probably 4 or 5 of these kinds of meetings.

-Mark writes:

“Do realized that the idea of me getting an OOC task had not come from him but from Classmates who were unaware of what the future held.”

This is very odd. It is possible that Overseers of the Craft, at that time I think, were Jwnody and Chkody and as was often the case that I witnessed could have tasks to suggest partnership changes to DO and could have had, even an ongoing task to make suggestions to DO of who might get an OOC-Task. (OOC stood for “Out of Craft”. Since we referred to our residence as a spacecraft, a new term for our house – to help prepare our Minds for literally moving into a spacecraft, though we didn’t decorate the craft to look like a spacecraft. It also sort of turned off the vocabulary we used before entering TI and DO’s Class).

So I suppose Mark could have become aware or overheard Overseers talking about his getting an OOC Task. But there is no way any students would have come up with the idea on their own unless DO had opened that door. I mean DO could have been talking about his concern that our income was not as good as it needed to be to match expenses, so I suppose some students could have considered that idea of adding to the OOCT personal and talked about it out loud ahead of mentioning it to DO, but by in large no Students would even talk about that without having the OK from Headquarters (DO). The area of a craft that was where the SAT 3 Crew did most of their work was very small. It had a dining room size table in the middle. There could be several different tasks going on at the same time though some in SAT 3 would go to a rest chamber (bedroom) if they needed privacy. I believe I remember that if someone was doing a task even right next to you that you weren’t a part of, you would make a point to not pay attention to what they were doing. You would proceed with your own tasks. I know that Mark was very keen to what was going on in SAT 3 and the Craft which as a part of SAT 3 was part of his task but that TI and DO indicated he’d taken it to an extreme to even seek to know how Srrody brushed his teeth, if I recall, though perhaps DO wasn’t being exact in saying that on an audio tape.

By Mark saying “Do realized that the idea of me getting an OOC task had not come from him but from Classmates who were unaware of what the future held.” is pretty strange. Of course if DO didn’t instigate the idea He would have known he didn’t instigate the idea.

Then Mark makes it sound to me that Mark is insinuating that only he or only a few knew of the pending move. It’s hard to believe that Overseers wouldn’t have known as much as he about any impending move. Again as Mark does so often he says things that seem to show himself in a good light rather than take the correction of admitting his own mistakes and getting on with it. Instead he frequently puts the blame on Classmates for not being aware and on DO for not having “realized” something.

So he brings this up as an example of “things spiraled out of control” but then says, “We got past the matter…”. Who is “We” in this statement? Wouldn’t it either be DO and/or he and/or certain Classmates? And what about this pertained to his leaving the Group, if “they” got past it?

But perhaps it does have something to do with his leaving in his mind as it sounds like he was putting his head into things he had no business doing as it wasn’t his task to be concerned about his getting an OOC Task or not. A Student of TI and DO wants to do whatever tasks they are given to do. It doesn’t have to make sense to us. Even if Students stimulated the idea in DO’s Mind, DO wouldn’t ever take that as gospel. He would take it to TI (who at that time was outside her vehicle but who DO felt was close to him at times). He had a real connection with TI. Nothing imaginary about it.

This seems to show Mark is in denial that the “I could be wrong” lesson step was in fact seen by Students (and DO) as a big “problem” for him. To me this sounds a little sarcastic to say; “but the automobile issue raised the notion that it was part of the whole ‘I could be wrong’ Mrcody problem. That is how I did remember it all, that Mark’s Help Wanted Meeting was because he didn’t want to always used “I could be wrong” as a preface to stating a judgment of some kind. There were extremes to the use of that phrase but TI and DO didn’t spell them all out.

To me, Mark makes it sound as if he believes the fellow students were making it all up. In many organizations there could have been contention between members, and there was some in our group of course but DO was aware of everything because it was likely that each student would report to him the difficulties they had so he could help them and others and thus even help the entire Group get past their conflicts.

Mark admits a “support meeting” was held for him. Part of the structure of those meetings was to offer the one requested the meeting or assigned to have a meeting help in the area they requested it. The meeting was designed for fellow students to try to recall all the ways Ti and Do taught to deal with lesson steps.

It seems that for Mark to recognize that he had that “I could be wrong” problem is too embarrassing to admit. Since Mark is very intelligent in some ways and a very quick thinker and is very witty, he may think so much of himself that having anyone offer him correction is perhaps extremely difficult to hear or accept, so he seems to put off his mistakes on others like Rkkody in 1997 big time and to date, on Crlody (Carlan) then and to date, on me (Swyody) big time for many years and to date and Jhnody, of late and even my partner Cathy, but filing lawsuits against us all (except not yet on Jhnody). And DO says in audio tapes that Sarah (Srfody) added to his inflation of himself (paraphrased).

Should he admit to the events of his own making that led to DO sending him out of the Class further f actualizes that he had and by this very interview and many other actions that he still has that same problem and perhaps even more than before. It may be that the only way he can think of to try to keep his egotistical image alive and Sarah’s is by attempting to discredit me and the rest of us who were mentioned above. He and Sarah seem to look down on us in various ways as if they are such great servants of TI and DO. Even though they probably would deny all of this as they have denied aspects of it that I have asked them about directly years ago but more and more seemed to be right on as one of the explanations for their wanting to keep people from hearing TI and DO’s own words about them in the audio tapes.

I believe the Next Level’s TI and DO literally put them to the test and though they have done some of the tasks they were given involving handling some of their mail, and keeping up the web site and sending out some video tapes and the bear minimum of audio tapes, on the main task it appears they have been failing from adhering to what DO actually asked them to do, case in point being stated in their Letter from DO and Crew stating, “any items of value [in storage] that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our [DO and The Classes] information”. They say they intended on doing that but weren’t until Swyody and Crlody stopped and gave them back all the audio tapes we got from Rkkody and of late from Jhnody.

This is a huge example of how the Lower Forces can slip into us to have us literally act like we support TI and DO while persecuting their servants who want to spread their Truth which is the primary task at this time that every believer can choose to accept in service to TI and DO.

DO would have not permitted such a Help Wanted Meeting unless he felt there was good reason for the meeting. DO and Ti were very hands on leaders/teachers. And they were not at all easily fooled by students and knew that some students reports were not believed and so they would often seek out the person who a student made a claim against to see the facts.

Again, where are the details that led up to his thinking about leaving the class or did DO bring up his leaving when he met with DO after the Help Wanted meeting? I know when I reported to DO how I wasn’t following certain procedures, DO asked me, on two separate occasions what I wanted to do about it. I suggested calling my own Help Wanted meeting. The second time it came up, I said to DO, “I guess I have to leave” and he said okay, “you want to get more objective”. Then he told me to give the phone to another classmate and he told them to tell the others in the group “not to try to talk Swyody out of leaving the class because he knew what he was doing”.

In the case of Mark, what were the exact circumstances that forced things to a head? – the talk about OOC Tasks? – the talk about his inappropriate suggestions about the Cadillac they (Do and Crew) bought, perhaps not consulting with him about, and/or the other things brought up to him in the Help Wanted meeting?

DO was in no way a trivial person. He valued each student. I know this from personal experience working with DO as an Overseer and even being assigned to help Hvvody and Rthody when they were contemplating leaving. This last statement from Mark makes it sound to me like he believes DO based sending him out of the Group on a whim, because of these few things students said Mark said.

And if Mark truly didn’t want to leave, why is it that, from Mark’s remembrance, after he alleges that DO indicated to him that he (DO) had “made a mistake” – since DO was the one who sent him out of the Group, and said that DO “understood that the cure had been worse than the disease and called many days in a row to get us to come back,” which makes DO look somewhat desperate to get him back in the group, MARK DID NOT RETURN. Why didn’t Mark and Sarah return? And why is it that I remember DO giving Mark and Sarah a car and their being upset that it was the worse car we had at the time. Maybe I don’t remember that right but perhaps that’s one of the many details Mark leaves out here.

Niklas:

Like Mrcody, Srfody joined the Group after a September 1975 meeting in Waldport, Oregon – a gathering which saw about twenty people bid friends and relatives farewell and commit wholeheartedly to overcoming their mammalian behavior Today, the two of them serve as proprietors of the Heaven’s Gate website and all intellectual property left behind by the Class.

Sawyer: I could be wrong but believe I recall DO saying in a tape that there were 34 who joined from having attended the Waldport, OR meeting they gave on September 14, 1975.

4. Mark:

– I don’t know why Srfody was sent along with me, but she was expected back soon. They expressed as much to her by phone on September 24, but she could see how devastated I was from being asked to leave. She stayed. Within days, Do realized that a mistake had been made and asked us to return at once. He understood that the cure had been worse than the disease and called many days in a row to get us to come back. Do and his helpers had already left for Atlanta to perform some groundwork before the move, so those still in Boulder would’ve heard nothing about this.

4. Sawyer:

Mark writes that he didn’t know why Srfody was sent along with him. Right there his wording indicates he was “sent” to be outside the Group as opposed to leaving on his own accord as many others did. He also said in point #3 that “He [DO] could see that I did not want to go, but circumstances were forcing things to a head.”

But there is another part to this that puzzles me. I asked Carlan (Crlody) what was said while he was in the Group about Mark and Sarah’s leaving and if I recall accurately he told me their leaving had something to do with Mark and/or Sarah not wanting to change partnerships they had with one another.

I had no sense that Srfody planned to return. In fact, when it was settled that they were both going to be leaving the Class, DO instructed us say something to both of them. We lined up to take turns to say it to them. What we were instructed to say was something to the effect of, “You are welcome to come back if you both want to follow all our procedures”. If Sarah was “expected back soon” why did DO have us say that to both of them at that same time, in person.

Why be general, to say, “They expressed as much to her by phone on September 24…”. Who was “they” and what did they express to her? Did they ask her to come back or not?

Then Mark says, “she could see how devastated I was from being asked to leave”. Isn’t that a contradiction from being “sent along with me” to being in the next sentence saying they were “asked to leave”. Maybe Mark is not being that particular with the words he chooses here but given the vast amount of things he says that have little to no truth to them, words are all we got to show his contradictions so to hopefully arrive at the truth.

I could be wrong but they really seem to be doing a disservice to TI and DO at this point.

I would not be hardly talking about this if he and Sarah hadn’t waged this huge lawsuit against me, Cathy and Carlan attempting to devastate us financially for playing some audio tapes on my live-stream and selling some T shirts with images on them that they illegally trademarked and copyrighted, having no documents at all (according to Judge Lisa Guy Schall) to show that DO and Crew wanted that sort of thing done to their images and writing and audios and video’s or they would have done that themselves.

But pertaining to Sarah (Srfody) choosing to stay with a student (Mark) who didn’t want to follow all the procedures of DO’s Classroom, instead of returning to that same Class is in my view nothing short of either a lie or a gross mis-construction of what happened and a complete avoidance of taking their own responsibility for why they were literally “sent” out of the Class because of their own choices.

This would have been unheard of for a student of one’s Older Member choosing to leave their Older Member (DO) to be with another student that was asked/told to leave – if they didn’t want to follow all the procedures. Reading this in this interview causes me to reflect on the many initial students who left the Class, how and why. I don’t know all the “why’s” exactly but I doubt anyone left to go with another student. This was a unique circumstance.

DO has spoken in a number of audio tapes about Mark and Sarah’s being sent out of His Class and how they were looking to one another and not to him. If DO had said to Sarah to leave with Mark to help him, I would think DO would have told Mark and others that he sent Sarah to do such a task but I never heard that then nor heard it in any of the tapes we have about their leaving. Sarah may have said that to Mark or to one of DO’s helpers on the telephone I guess possibly to DO on the telephone but, by the evidence of what DO said in audio tapes the idea of Sarah being sent with Mark never happened.

In fact, it seems Mark giving this interview where he attempted to smear my reputation with claims that were not true the way he said it, may be a last ditch effort to try to save face to give people the impression that I’m making all this up regarding my first hand witness testimony of the events surrounding he and Sarah’s being sent out of the Class.

But if that strategy to try to discredit me as a reliable witness in some respect was on his mind for this interview his strategy is shot to hell because we have all the audio clips of what DO was thinking and doing in relationship to Mark and Sarah’s even going against DO in some respects. There appears to be a tape or two not available around that time. Some may be missing. For instance Mark said there were 1061 audio tapes. We have about 930. The 930 go into 1997. If the 131 or so tapes Mark still has were all recorded in 1997 as it appears then that would have meant DO made a tape at least every day from January to March 22nd when they began to leave. That is very unlikely but I’d love to know for sure if Mark would allow people to have them. What is he hiding. I’m not afraid to hear what’s on any of the tapes. There is one about my leaving that was difficult to hear but I’ve heard it or read the transcript 3 times now.

Niklas:

A meeting was called two weeks after the Group’s relocation to Peachtree, Atlanta. Do announced that he, ever since the move – and to his great dismay – could no longer feel Ti’s presence. Ti was Do’s Older Member, and he relied on her for guidance. Ti’s human container expired in 1985, so their correspondence was restricted to the ethereal plane. Consequently, the students quit their new jobs, packed up, and left for Colorado again.

5. Mark:

– To this day, many who remain from that time erroneously think we were kicked out because of ‘I could be wrong’. This became a watershed moment and Do realized that things needed to be corrected. But Srfody and I remained in Phoenix – not out of rejecting Do’s request, but because the Classroom still had these misunderstandings and none of them were being addressed. The back and forth went on into October, but things turned quiet after the new year. We resumed contact in late 1988.

5. Sawyer:

Again, Mark is blaming both DO and their Classmates for the reasons they were sent out of the Group. And he says nothing about perhaps being “wrong” in his observation/interpretation. I don’t know if this is deliberate, a story he and/or Sarah conjured up to try to combat the truth that I and many other former class members know or if they have told themselves this story for so long that that’s the way they remember it. I suspect it’s a little of both. Their noses are growing very, very long with what they are directly insinuating and their justifying themselves for getting kicked out. And the saddest part is that they have told Cathy and I that they believe both TI and DO are Older Members from the Next Level Above Human.

Cathy as a new believer in TI and DO and anyone else who has listened to their audio tapes and read their materials can also see right through this smokescreen. Cathy said to me in response to this fifth statement from Mark, that if “DO realized that things needed to be corrected He would have corrected things. DO would have held a meeting and/or spoke to the Class-members who according to Mark, “still had these misunderstandings” and blames DO once again, saying that “none of them [the misunderstandings] were being addressed”. And if there were misunderstandings among class members, since they were no longer in the Class how did they know DO didn’t address the alleged misunderstandings. Mark and Sarah assume so much and are taking no responsibility for their own failures as Class Members demonstrating exactly why they were sent out of the Class in the first place.

In other words they are saying DO failed to lead the class members That seems to mean Jwnody and Chkody and/or others were guilty of misunderstandings since they were the Overseers who called for the Help Wanted Meeting Mark talks about here. But Jwnody and Chkody and/or others were never “muted” for being a Trail Boss. Mark and Sarah might want to listen to audio tape 037 AB from 12/17/1982 – particularly the part that sis summarized in the log file that says, “Older Member is right no matter what – don’t compete or think you remember better – take the blame, wouldn’t blame them.”

For those that balk at this idea that the Older Member is right no matter what, it happens to be a fact because humans are all different in their capacity to perceive who is literally significantly Beyond them because most humans judge one another based on their financial success, looks, degrees, societal position, popularity, fame, intellect as they perceive it and/or Spiritual Stature. What many don’t know is what they often don’t know about reality and how Souls are real and have been here before and have experienced many things in previous lifetimes that others have not, which enables them to know more about certain realities and no longer have much if any desire to climb social or career ladders.

TI and DO, (The Souls who took the human vehicles and used those names) really were from The Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human, they didn’t bring into their conscious Minds all they knew for the sake of the task, but their perceptions were Beyond Human. It’s like working under the Captain of a ship. If a third class seaman in the Navy competes with the Captain they will have to be removed from that crew so they don’t interfere with the functions the Captain is in charge of. We who became students of TI and DO recognized TI and DO as our Admiral and Captain. We could have left at any time if we didn’t want to abide by all the procedures they gave us to follow. The Classroom always was an Next Level Astronaut Training Program. So when Mark and Sarah didn’t want to follow the procedure of acknowledging that they at any time “could be wrong” in their opinions, they ceased qualifying to be in the training program thus DO had to send them out of the Class until they chose to abide by all the Procedures.

Niklas:

How was your experience of re-integrating into society?

6. Mark:

– We used our skills from the Class and applied them to various human projects, all of which we excelled in. We soon bought autos and a house as we advanced in our careers. We’ve built many successful businesses from scratch by now. Do noted that we had pushed higher and further than any other former members. While there was never much emphasis on the human experience, he did inform us that applied effort and a concentrated desire to serve were Next Level attributes noticeable in any endeavor Our intention was still to serve the Next Level.

6. Sawyer:

Listen to this ego building, claiming that “Do noted that we had pushed higher and further than any other former members.” I’d like to have heard exactly what DO said that Mark has interpreted like that. We have it on audio tape that years before this DO felt Rkkody was in much better shape in relationship to the Next Level because he still recognized and wanted to look to his Older Members. I guess Mark may want people to believe they changed from 1987 through 1990’s in regards to DO and perhaps they did change, but if we look at what they are doing now, it’s clear that they have not changed and may have even gotten far, far worse in looking to their own Minds rather than to TI and DO’s Mind.

“Pushed higher”? What does that mean to DO – in making money…that wouldn’t be a criteria DO respected yet in point number 6, Mark he’s talking about purely human project advancements. “Pushed…further” in what direction? Okay, in the next sentence he clarifies that DO didn’t put “much emphasis on the human experience”. What was DO’s emphasis on then?

This to me seems to be yet another one of those exaggerations and even a type of filing in the blanks and attributing it to DO saying something. Another example of this is when Mark told me with Cathy as my witness that I also have in an email to Cathy that “Ti would slap you aside the head” if she heard that I got on an airplane while not vaccinated. None of us were ever vaccinated in the Classroom, though it wasn’t so prevalent in those years that I ever heard about. Maybe he said that because TI was a nurse in the world. But TI also didn’t see doctors as the “gods” many seem to think about them. There is a long list of these kinds of things they seem to think they can say with confidence that TI and/or DO said or would say and anyone that really knows TI and DO’s Mind in the least knows on many subjects they were not to be second guessed accurately.

And if they have built “many successful businesses”, maybe that explains why they are spending thousands of dollars on suing me and Cathy for selling some T shirts with the Older Member picture Ollody painted on them, that they illegitimately copyrighted though they had no proof of the group giving them the rights to that painting. They are also suing me and adding Cathy for audio’s I played before I met Cathy and for playing audio tapes of TI and DO on my live-stream on YouTube: 3spm after I met Cathy and Cathy tried to broker a deal between us to allow me/us to play them publicly The lawsuit includes trying to get us to pay over 75,000 at least in statuary and punitive damages as there are no actual damages because they have never sold anything from the Class, they say, besides the Book.

Re: their businesses, I wonder how many is “many”. I know they have a business that is like a Mail Boxes, Etc for many years so that’s probably one.

Niklas:

The Group began exploring new ground after Mrcody and Srfody’s departure. In the ’88 Update – The UFO Two and Their Crew, a manifesto of sorts, they describe a project called the Anonymous Shopaholics Celibate Church: an outreach program for chronic sexaholics seeking relief from their affliction. That was a wild idea, I must say. Considering how many former students mention celibacy as the most challenging aspect of purging themselves of human patterns, having raging nymphomaniacs living under the same roof sounds adventurous to the extreme.

7. Mark:

– Anonymous Shopaholics was a repackaging of the Next Level understanding for those humans who could most relate to it. The ‘88 Update was a mixture of different ideas Do thought might be relatable to the public. It sounded unusual but never added up to real people coming in. It did not have any effect, and there were no new members. But the Celibate Church did gain popularity within the Group and lasted a long time into the 1990s. It was a useful tool to evaluate the endless sexual games played on this planet – and for those who wanted off the ride. It brought up the notion that being non-sexual wasn’t such a bad idea for some on Earth. It made the abnormal seem normal, so those rid of carnal desires would not feel like freaks.

7. Sawyer:

Mark was not in the Classroom when DO had us begin to interface with groups like Sexahaulics Anonymous and Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous and others, mostly based in California but having chapters in Colorado and other places. It was DO’s next consideration of who He felt TI would have him interface with. His effort in that regard basically fell on mostly deaf ears.

Where did he get the description of DO and Crews effort to reach out to members of these groups as a “Repackaging of Next Level Understanding?” They were never supportive of human sexuality for those in the Classroom that hoped to evolve Beyond Human in this lifetime.

Since Mark wasn’t in the Class after 1987, I understand why he didn’t know why DO wrote the ’88 Update – The UFO Two and their Crew. It was to set the record straight in the many rumors that got reported by the media as facts mostly from 1975 to date.

It’s a report of he and TI’s meeting. At that time, Mark didn’t know that DO wasn’t seeking new members though he was experimenting with various projects in case there were some in the human kingdom who would still identify with what He and TI had been teaching. It wasn’t supposed to “add up to real people coming in”. Mark needs to listen to the audio tapes from that time to learn how DO was thinking if he’s going to portray himself as a know it all authority of what TI and DO taught and intended to be done with their information after they left.

Mark says, “it sounded unusual but never added up to real people coming in”. Wow, this sounds to me like he is faulting DO for not coming up with something that could “bring real people in”. What makes him think DO cared about “bringing real people in” or for that matter “fake people in”…that’s a joke as what’s a “real” person to Mark? I don’t think he knows how he sounds and what kind of thoughts he has that have seemed to become his own that are hyper critical of the very person he tells me and others he is a student of…namely DO. Or is he a student of what has become a facsimile of DO. There is a great deal of evidence from his mouth and actions of the later case.

Mark says about “’88 Update” that “it sounded unusual…” He’s got to be kidding, it is as unusual as can be and no different from what He and TI brought to the world that was also very highly unusual. And like I just said to equate that “unusual” nature to the material “never added up to real people coming in” seems to totally miss the point of ’88 Update. Of course it was designed to tell the truth with the hope that some would recognize it as something that made sense to them. DO didn’t come up with anything in it, I don’t think that TI hadn’t also felt before she exited. I wonder if Mark is insinuating once again that DO got off the track in some way after TI left. Maybe that’s part of why he seems to look up to Ben Zellers thinking that I believe has a similar view to it along with many others. Mind you I respect Ben Zeller and understand that he is approaching the subject as an academic but that doesn’t mean I agree with any of what he arrived at.

Mark should either listen to all the audio tapes from that time or ask me about what actually happened as the way he says things to me is so misleading. I don’t think he’s trying to do that but I think he just doesn’t know better.

There was no “popularity within the Group” involved in the Classroom. DO, as the Older Member ran things by Students and by that time sought out Students input on potential next steps. Those next steps almost always had to do with finding ways we might interface with the public again since 1975 and 1976. Yes, the idea of having a “church” in the title was mostly all that was about, as well as the word “celibate” in the literature they were planning on using IF they went ahead with such a project. As I was there then and into the 90’s I do recall having the documentation that we even sent to family members called, ASCC standing for “Anonymous Sexahaulics Celibate Church”. But even with that title that didn’t change anything that we were doing. We still operated with the same objectivity and had no religiosity. We didn’t have any religious symbolism on the walls nor Space based pictures. We had no ceremonies or rituals or special clothing to dress up in. Mark is saying that “popularity” of having a “church” lasted into the 1990’s, which is not at all what took place. In fact by the 90’s we were more inclined to try to interface with the people who surrounded the UFO phenomena subject matter. In 1992 DO had some student partnerships make video’s for the public. I was partnered by DO with Jwnody to make a video. From the video’s several partnerships made, DO asked that Classroom to kind of rate who did the best job and that might be the partnership who DO was considering sending out to talk to Christians, etc. The video Jwnody and I made was selected and DO approved of it but then felt he didn’t feel we were right to do that task. That’s when he decided to do the task that resulted in the Beyond Human – The Last Call video series.

To me Mark talks about this the way an academic talks about things they hardly know anything about saying about the Celibate Church project examination that, “It was a useful tool to evaluate the endless sexual games played on this planet – and for those who wanted off the ride.” What “evaluation?” DO wasn’t evaluating human sexuality. He knew from the start that there was no sexuality in the Next Level so there couldn’t be any in the Classroom who were trying to measure up to Next Level standards. People should listen to the audio tapes and they would see so much of what I’m saying for themselves.

Plus it wasn’t just about becoming non-sexual. After all there are all kinds of religious monks and nuns, what DO joked at times calling them “nonks and muns” who are celibate but are addicted to their sense of piety and being special to be full time religionists, getting off on others seeing them and seeing themselves as holy, etc.

I doubt Mark and Sarah listen to audio tapes. Maybe that’s another reason they don’t want anyone to actually hear those 1061 tapes as they don’t want people to see all the things they have been saying that are clearly not from TI and DO’s Mind. To pretend they are the ultimate authority of Heaven’s Gate seems to be the illusion they wish to keep up just because they received the task to handle the Groups mail and divide the contents of storage (audio tapes, etc.) among those who were inclined to disseminate their information. In Judge Lisa Guy Schall’s decision she even shows how Sarah even admitted that she and Mark’s task was to “distribute” videos.

Judge Lisa Guy Schall also wrote in her decision that of the information they provided to the court, to try to show they should have all the Groups possessions, which included one or more of the Letters they received from DO and Crew, distribution was the only task they were given (aside from handling of mail and a few fiduciary responsibilities. They then made it into their little empire dictating who could have what materials and what images and video’s could be shown.

The name we used in the 90’s was Total Overcomers Anonymous – TOA which can be seen on the original video tape jackets of the Video series DO and Crew (including me on the crew) called “Beyond Human – The Last Call”. One can see me being used in about 5 of the 12 sessions as a helper for DO. It may not look like we are doing much to help DO but the fact that those assigned that task were very positive minded made us good batteries and buffers against the negative influences that might otherwise try to interfere with DO.

I agree with the last sentence that the effort to reach out to those in those kinds of groups was seen as trying to help them go even further to end their sexual addictions and feel good about doing so. But what DO learned from having sent Pmmody and other students to some of these group’s meetings was that many resented the Class members acting like they know how to overcome the sexual addiction. And how some just want to keep thinking of themselves as addicts rather than totally cut off their sexuality which is harder to do. I recall in an audio tape DO talks about some of these groups trying to get addicts to have a normal sex lives when DO was hoping some would want no sex life anymore because they were recognizing it was behavior they were outgrowing.

Niklas:

There is one remark in particular from the ‘88 Update I find confusing: ‘We also thought that we could help AIDS victims realize that their problem could actually be their blessing.’

8. Mark:

– Ti always regarded this disease as a way of having a section of the human population realize that the reduction – or elimination – of sexual activity can clear the mind and bring it closer to the evolutionary movement towards the Next Level. She stated this in 1984, back when Boy George was more popular. His move towards androgyny may have confused the general public, but it was a step closer to having no gender roles or sexual activity at all. Ti believed AIDS offered people a chance to pause and consider relating to their fellow human beings in ways completely devoid of sensuality.

8. Sawyer:

I will have to review tapes that talk about AIDS before commenting on what Mark said. What Mark said doesn’t seem far off from what TI and DO taught about a disease helping someone overcome the behavior that contributed to one’s illness.

Niklas:

At some point in the late 80s, while residing in Poudre Canyon, Colorado, Do underwent a bout of Rocky Mountain spotted fever which reportedly dragged him to death’s door. Do later recounted to students how he came so close that he only needed to let go in order to exit his vehicle. But as much as he longed to be reunited with Ti, his tasks on Earth were as of yet incomplete. In 1990, the Class left all three Colorado crafts and resumed life in the outdoors, roaming from state to state. For a while, they camped in Phoenix, where they performed a thirteen-day water fast in preparation for a presumed UFO pick-up in the desert.

9. Mark:

– We heard about the spotted fever episode but have no details. We were also aware of the desert fast but did not participate – it was a difficult experience, from reports back. We did not meet with them physically around this time; for security reasons, both parties kept to themselves. We seriously contemplated a return, but the same issues might have resurfaced. Do spoke with both of us, yet the opportunity did not present itself in a workable manner. It was tempting, though.

9. Sawyer:

I wonder what Mark means by saying they got “reports back”. I know this can seem picky but the words people use show how their minds work and contain insinuations and open doors to misinterpretation that leads to misinformation, especially with the subject matter of Heaven’s Gate. So to me those two words can make it sound like DO was reporting to them. Maybe there was some of that happening as DO may have wanted to keep them abreast of some things we were doing in the Class so if they wanted to they could do some version of it, since over a number of phone calls to them, they still wanted to stay in touch. Other dropouts didn’t want any contact. I’m embarrassed to say that was me but I’m glad to say I didn’t remain in that frame of mind, though didn’t shift without their help in ways that included many dreams including them that occurred after they left their human vehicles. In fact I think it’s clear that my lack of wanting to stay in touch was probably the main reason DO didn’t include me in the list of dropout students who would receive a Fed X packet from Them on March 25th or thereabouts. Mark seems to hold this against me and seems to resent that when I did surface publicly standing up for TI and DO I participated in a great deal of press while they were hiding according to Rkkody. I understand the stress of having their Postnet business carry the address that was on the Heaven’s Gate website but they had agreed with DO to provide that address to the public, though it seemed the timing and probably method of the Groups exit took them totally by surprise.

I participated in the fast. The first day was a fast on air only all day long. The next 12 or 13 days was a fast on water only. It was difficult. No one was harmed by it. Some of us went into it thinking we might exit our vehicles that way. I believe we had just moved out of Albuquerque and sold all our houses of furnishings in estate sales in Albuquerque and Sante Fe and got re-outfitted in Trailers and Tents to go into the dessert to live again. I believe I recall DO saying he made a mistake to have the Class break the fast by eating tangerines which were plentiful at that time in Yuma, AZ where we were living in trailers on BLM or National Forest lands. However, I bet it was a test for some so perhaps no mistake at all. DO said at one point when he talked about how he had used an old credit card to rent a car in late 1993 not knowing how they would pay for charge that it was a mistake to do but that they had instructions to do it. To me that means he was willing to make mistakes for the sake of the lessons Students would get when they learned they had made a mistake. So many people would disqualify them as being who they said they were, thinking such elevated Beings couldn’t make mistakes. But that’s an illusion to believe. However, from the perspective of we humans, even students using human vehicles any so called mistakes TI and/or DO said they made were not at all mistakes as far as we are concerned. That’s part of why some of the things Mark directly implies about DO, as DO having made mistakes or gained some new realization shows to me, though I could be wrong, that Mark has lost a chunk of knowing he once might have had. I’m not saying he couldn’t get it back and I’m not pretending I can judge his relationship with DO but there is a huge amount of evidence that he and Sarah have gone very far astray from what DO hoped they would do after They left their vehicles in 1997.

I was present in the Class when DO contracted Rocky Mountain Spotted Tick Fever and felt like he could “curl up and die” and wanted to but asked TI if he could exit then and he told us as I recall that TI said to him he could leave if he wanted to and DO then felt the students would have a hard time continuing without him physically present and he didn’t want to shorten the task TI had given him to do, so decided he would not exit then.

Niklas:

Come May 1993, to the cost of $29,911, Heaven’s Gate – using the name Total Overcomers Anonymous – took out a three-quarter page advertisement in USA Today titled UFO Cult Resurfaces with Final Offer. Variations of the same ad were placed in dozens of other publications across the United States. Everything was funded by the students, most of whom had qualified jobs by then.

Sawyer: My understanding was that the info-ad was 1/3 of a page, but I don’t doubt Mark and Sarah received some documentation so I may have that wrong.

10. Mark:

– The USA Today piece was the main expense. The regional papers received a modified version which cost far less. Many were package deals where you’d publish in one and, for a bit more, it would appear in affiliated papers. From regional publications like Dimensions and Free Spirit in the northeast to Pathfinder and Phenome News in the Midwest – we published wherever we could. We were also featured in international magazines like Steam Shovel Press and Nexus. All the publication dates and issues are listed in Section 5 of our anthology.

10. Sawyer:

Speaking of wording, when Mark said, (capitalizations are mine); “WE published wherever WE could. WE were also featured in international magazines like Steam Shovel Press and Nexus. All the publication dates and issues are listed in Section 5 of OUR anthology”

Mark and Sarah were not at all in the Group at that time or any time after they were sent out of the Group in 1987. They were given a number of opportunities to serve DO again after 1987 but most were refused. This is well documented in the audio tapes. They had zero to do with the “anthology” which is referring to the Heaven’s Gate Book. Yes, they published it and is seen today as their purple book. They even criticized me for using the same color for the publishing of my book though the reason I did it was two fold with the primary reason being that I thought the color they chose was because it was TI’s favorite color. The other reason was because my book seemed to be a continuation of the fact that DO included primary scriptures from the New Testament in the back of his Book.

I was there when DO wrote what he sent to USA Today. I was also there when Jwnody wrote a modified version and sent copies of it to many periodicals, some of which Mark mentioned here. I don’t know who all participated in the changes to the USA Today piece but can’t imagine they ran anything by Mark and Sarah any more than they ran them by me or most other class members.

They are putting on the appearance that they are one and the same as members of the Group were and that is very, very misleading. It really smacks to me of what happened to Paul of Tarsus according to the records in the Book of Acts. While still referred to as Saul, while he was persecuting true believers of Jesus after Jesus left, he said he was blinded by a flash of light and heard a voice that was said was heard by others:

Act 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Act 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

In other words, Saul went against Jesus’ followers, even potentially responsible for the stoning to death of Stephen and then was influenced by some vision or discarnate or Space Alien Fallen Angel Soul to think of himself as having had a direct contact and instruction from Jesus.

In other words, this is a tactic that the lower forces use to commandeer the Teachings from the incarnate Older Members to create a religion from them. So what happened is that Saul changed his name to Paul and his letters when found became the primary foundation of what became Christianity with Emperor of Rome, Constantine declaring himself a Christian and building churches and making decrees.

When DO and Crew left in 1997 they left a setup for former Students to be tested. DO knew that some students could be trusted to act quickly to retrieve “any Items of Value” from Storage, which Rkkody ended up doing after Mark and Sarah turned over all their letters and keys to vehicles and codes and addresses to at least 2 storage rooms, with one containing all the audio meeting tapes. Had Mark and Sarah acted quickly to even inform Rkkody of the content of the Letters they received to inform Rkkody to get the truck from one storage room and use it to go to the other storage room to load it up with it’s contents, then none of the complication would have occurred that did occur.

Okay, so that was Mark and Sarah’s first mistakes – not acting quickly enough because they were afraid of what might happen since their Postnet business was where the Group used an address and their names were with Rkkody’s on the letter DO wanted to send to the owner of the mansion after their bodies were discovered. This is according to Rkkody’s manuscript which there is no reason to believe is fabricated but no doubt Mark and Sarah may claim that it is.

At that point when San Diego found out about the storage room and put a lock on it, the only choice was to engage a lawyer to help get the contents back into the hands of those students who wanted to disseminate the Group’s information.

But when Mark and Sarah were ruled to have filed a frivolous lawsuit and threatened to hold up the auction, etc. by filing an appeal, the court sought a settlement that cost Mark and Sarah upwards as much as 500,000.00 according to Mark in this article. So the Judge gave them a Consent Decree and ownership of the contents of storage that didn’t include 486 audio tapes Rkkody had removed from Storage before the Storage was taken by San Diego County.

And here’s my point to comparing this with the Influence that changed Saul to Paul:

This is approximately when Mark and Sarah saw that there really weren’t very much the media was doing to cause them any problems so they wanted the task back. Hence the government decree became the first of two such decrees that enabled Mark and Sarah to have a legal criteria to lord over the material, that is until they went against me, Cathy and against Carlan (and Jhnody, though he isn’t named in the lawsuit to stop us from doing anything with any of the information. Mark and Sarah want us to turn over any of the information we have so they can be the only disseminators of the Information and no doubt one of the first things they would do if they haven’t already was find out in the audios all the spots where they (Mrcody and Srfody) are spoken about and just take those files out.

This is exactly what the Catholic church did to the abundance of manuscripts they had. They formed them into the Canon and went about persecuting anyone who taught the contents of what Jesus said outside of the clergy who they deemed were the only ones who had the task to do the teaching.

So these usages of “we” and “our” is direct evidence of how Mark and Sarah think of themselves, as if they are DO’s only current “Reps” on earth. Others could participate in disseminating TI and DO’s information IF, IF, IF they bow down to the wishes of Mark and Sarah King. We know this is true as we have the document they gave us in their attorney’s office in November of 2021 listing all the many rules we needed to agree upon before we did anything and that if we breached the rules even our children would be held libel to their so called authority.

To speak as if they were part of the group and had anything much to do with any of this is outrageous. I was there and even I don’t like speaking about these materials as including me in their creation. Mark is assuming he is in such good graces with DO that he and Sarah must take any measures to insure no one else interferes with what they want to do or not do regarding the Intellectual Property of the Heaven’s Gate Group.

Furthermore regarding to The “Anthology” mentioned here by Mark, is referring to the Book the Group put together entitled, “How and When The Door to the Physical Kingdom Level Above Human May Be Entered – an Anthology of Our Materials” before Mark and Sarah even knew it existed complete with documents, most, even all of which Mark and Sarah weren’t in the Class when they were formulated.

Rkkody was sent in his Fed X package copies of the first edition of the same Book. Jhnody was also sent a copy of the Book which was before Mark and Sarah published it and changed the copyright page to the Telah Foundation from Common Law Copyright – encouraging anyone to copy it entirely or parts of it as long as none of it was changed or added to and were not doing it for commercial purposes. (I don’t believe commercial purposes included believers charging for their expenses of disseminating the information. I have evidence of that).

This further demonstrates why Mark doesn’t want anyone else to disseminate TI and DO’s information to the public. He (and Sarah) think only they have that task and so when I or Cathy or Carlan or Jhnody do it, to them we are rogue bulls “confusing” who they say is really authorized by DO to do the dissemination task. Mark and Sarah in their lawsuit complaint used the word, “confuse” against us, saying we were causing confusion in the use of the phrase Heavens Gate.

The fact is that DO hoped that anyone, any new believer would Stand in He and TI’s defense and that it was a task given to new believers to disseminate Their information not just two x-students who were blaming DO for being sent out of the Class, putting DO down as Mark has demonstrated here in this article repeatedly. For 25 years they have been almost totally hording the audio tapes. They would send someone a link to download one at a time. Cathy ended up getting 4 from them over time. The link becomes inactive so in some cases she had to re-ask for a new link because she didn’t listen to it all when she had it and/or wanted to listen to it or parts of it again. These audio tapes are jam packed with information that is frankly Beyond Human comprehension unless one keeps after it and seeks to absorb it and apply it. Then more and more becomes apparent In that way, it’s much like the records of what Jesus said. There are layers of understanding. So to make it so hard to have tapes is thinking they can only be had if someone proves to them they are worthy, have the thirst and aren’t going to be like Pearls Before Swine. That’s how they think about a lot of people, as “swine” and as “cockroaches”. I and Cathy are witness to them using those terms to define people.

If anyone is giving Heaven’s Gate a bad (“confusing”) reputation and name, it’s Mark and Sarah in the ways they have treated many who have written to them that I and Cathy know about and have first hand provable evidence of.

Niklas:

These ads stirred enough interest for the Group to re-open ‘the harvest’ – as they referred to the recruitment process – and hold public meetings again for the first time since 1976.

11. Mark:

– They tested the waters in Denver and Albuquerque in November 1993, but the harvest didn’t go live until the following January when they were in the LA area. The Group actually grew from twenty-four to fifty during this time, with people coming and going throughout the year. Some entered because they thought they’d be leaving on a spacecraft immediately, but the veterans knew this was not the case.

11. Sawyer:

Jwnody and I (Swyody) held the meeting in Denver in November of 1993 as a testing of the waters like Mark said. Our report to DO was that it went well, there seemed to be interest. I don’t know if anyone went to that meeting who ended up joining once we started heading out to hold meetings on January 1, 1994 or not, though upon returning to that area, I think it was Chkody and I who held another meeting in that area and Golden (Gldody) joined from. As was the case for most all TI and DO believers, what she heard made total sense to her and she knew this was what meant everything to her so needed to give her 100% effort to. This is an example of my response to the meeting I attended with TI and DO talking on September 14, 1975 and this is the type of response Cathy has said she had when she watched the Beyond Human – The Last Call Video series. And there are others still having that response when they hear it.

I’m glad to see Mark speaks about us at that time as “They” instead of acting like he was a part of it, as he did in point #10.

We actually launched the Public meeting schedule from the San Diego area not from L.A.

I don’t think the group ever grew to 50 but even if it did for a time during that 9 1/2 month holding of public meetings a bunch of those were returning dropouts who had been either looking for DO over years even or who still had some contact with DO after they dropped out.

That return of a bunch of dropout students started in 1993 with the publishing and uploading of the Beyond Human Video Series to a Satellite TV channel. A bunch of dropouts individually watched the Beyond Human series on Satellite and for those that had a way to get in touch with DO, did and DO invited them to rejoin. As I recall they were Rkkody, Stlody, Tllody, Jhnody (from seeing the broadcast in Venezuela), Flxody and her husband a new believer who became named Ablody, Gnrody, a new believer (who had been partnered with Rkkody when Rkkody was in the world) and Evnody, a new believer (who was a half sister to Stlody who became interested when Stlody left the Group). Also Slvody and Jstody returned having joined in 1975 or so who were a couple in the world. (Jstody left some time shortly after rejoining but with Rkkody decided to exit his vehicle by his own hand in around February of 1998. Also there was Rddody who was a new believer who was a homeless person who DO allowed to join us, but he didn’t stay very long because he started finding fault with Class members (including me) and didn’t want to take the correction from DO. DO asked him where he wanted to go so DO could give him transportation to wherever he chose. He chose to receive a Greyhound bus pass that was good for unlimited travel for a year and he was taken to the nearest bus station. He was probably given a little spending money as well.

Niklas:

Phoenix was one of the few places they managed to get local news coverage – did you have a hand in this?

Sawyer: We actually got great coverage from the Dallas Morning news, from a Portland radio station and from the newspaper in Missoula, Montana where we also held meetings. “We” in this case refers to the small Group I was an overseer, with my partner, of. In the case of Dallas, several smaller groups joined together to hold that meeting. I don’t know of what media the other 4 or 5 small groups obtained. We also attracted media to the meeting “my” group put on southeast of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. I’m sure other groups had media coverage as well.

12. Mark:

– No, this was not our doing, but we did meet up with them while they visited Arizona in February 1994. We later saw them in Tucson, where they asked us to come back into the Group. Some of those who’d started the rumors that forced us to leave in 1987 had left by then – ironic, isn’t it? So, we asked for time to think. We considered making that transition but ultimately did not.

12. Sawyer:

Mllody and I and the group of students we were Overseers for held the Tucson meeting then and also got news coverage for on UFO AZ, a public access TV station created and run by Ted Lohman who we were also on the show with. I recall after that meeting that another of our Groups held a meeting in a suburb town south of Mesa or Tempe, as I recall and that may be the meeting Mark is talking about as there was some local news coverage of it. I was in the audience at that meeting and saw Mark and Sarah there as well.

But DO told us after that time that he had asked Mark and Sarah if they wanted to return into the group and that they declined.

Again, Mark saying here that, “Some of those who’d started the rumors that forced us to leave in 1987 had left by then – ironic, isn’t it?”

This is so hard for me to see in writing but is very telling of the Mind he lost. This statement to me shows that even today he has little trust that DO is his Older Member, as if DO was influenced to send him and Sarah out of He and TI’s Classroom because of anything (rumors) said to DO about them. DO sent them out of the Classroom reluctantly because they didn’t want to look to him as their Older Member anymore. This is a huge example of Mark not knowing how wrong he is about the whole episode. No wonder he gave at least one email interview where when asked why they left the Group, Mark and Sarah said nothing about being sent out of the classroom.

On top of that, he’s saying it’s ironic that those class-members were at that time in 1994 out of the Class as if to say it was their bad karma because they influenced DO with rumors that caused DO to send them out of the Class. The ones I recall that left the Class after them until 1994 were Hvvody, perhaps Pypody, Cddody (who DO sent to a half way house situation in Dallas where Brnody and Anyody were also living for a period, except Cddody when offered by DO to return in 1994 declined (and has since died), Rthody who also was on the fence about staying in the Class following the second family visit where he spent time with his vehicle’s brothers and their families that he then wanted to leave to be around, Pmmody who left in 1992 or so and Andody who left in 1992 or 1993. Of those, though I might be wrong but only Pmmody was in Sat 3 north craft at that time. That might not be so as I think Rthody and Hvvody might have been in that craft at that time as well but like me there, Rthody and Andody and Hvvody I believe all had OOC Tasks so probably wouldn’t know as much about what was transpiring between Mrcody (Mark) and other students that became what surfaced Mark’s ceasing to follow the I could be Wrong procedure.

I could find ways to ask Pmmody, Rthody, Hvvody and Andody about their recollection of those events surrounding Mark and Sarah’s being sent out of the Classroom but to date I don’t really care to.

Niklas:

Come September 1994, Heaven’s Gate had returned to California and taken up residency in the city of San Clemente, where they slept in tents inside a warehouse. From their many years on campgrounds through all seasons, the senior members had considerable outdoors experience. As such, they could get contractor work testing out camping equipment. One day, Do summoned the Class to a meeting during which he – flanked by a vacant chair to signify Ti’s presence – broached the topic of purposely shedding their human husks. In his view, it was a means of leaving behind the cumbersome corporeal vessel to allow for the consciousness to return to the Next Level. Just like Jesus, the same spiritual being that now occupied Do’s body, had done two thousand years prior by willingly submitting to crucifixion. The Group were down to around forty members at this point; one of them left, but the rest stayed.

A common speculation is whether they would’ve moved towards the physical exit strategy if Ti had remained at the helm.

13. Mark:

– We feel it would’ve come from Ti sooner than Do, but we don’t know for sure. It’s hard to conjecture about this. We were unaware at the time, but the development itself was unsurprising. From the beginning, Ti and Do knew we would not be entering the Next Level in our human bodies. Flesh and blood are not made for space travel. Instead, we’d receive new, space-capable Next Level bodies. You vacate your earthly vessel either before or after entering the craft – take your pick. And don’t tell us that tethered trips to the moon or Mars are ‘space travel’. Exiting the earth’s atmosphere on an explosive chemical tube and hoping you’ll make it back in one piece is controlled playtime in our restricted solar system; high-speed movement around the universe, it is not. The Next Level controls our playground.

13. Sawyer:

At least Mark says it’s “conjecture” after stating his opinion. However the opinion, what they, Mark and Sarah feel really seems to be another of the many tell tale signs that they even at this point think poorly of DO and his choices. For example:

To say, “it would’ve come sooner from Ti than DO” to refer to the exit timing based on the use of the word, “sooner”, given the fact that DO looked to TI as his Older Member, His Heavenly Father aka Jehovah in the records and religious terms, his “Admiral,” doesn’t that say DO was tardy in exiting? Doesn’t it directly state that DO was not in tune with what TI would have done? I highly doubt they are implying that TI would have wrongly exited sooner as if it was good that DO took so long to exit.

This seems like a little thing but in fact it’s huge and shows how right DO was in audio tape #849 from 07-23-94 where DO says Mrcody and Srfody could not stay in Class in relationship to each other so he instructed them to leave in 1987. That’s not the only audio tape clip saying that they became satisfied with looking to one another, thus no longer to DO who they referred to as their Older Member.

They seem to directly imply that they think DO was a weak leader and the facts are exactly the opposite but not in a human way. DO wasn’t dictatorial at all. Just the opposite but when it came to Standards He and TI stood for, though patient and tolerant and forgiving, as they said in scripture “ruled” with a two edged sword of his Mind (words) requiring those who showed he and TI they wanted that rule to sever all their ties to this world to be “accounted worthy”.

Again it shows how little he really thinks of DO and about what DO’s relationship with TI was all about. DO was fully acting on TI’s behalf while also operating as a partnership while TI was in a human vehicle and thriving on staying in tune with TI step by step as he finished the task TI gave him. The only way someone can really begin to see what I’m saying as true is to listen to a bunch of audio tapes. It really doesn’t take a bunch and of course some will listen to even a bunch and still not see what I’m saying.

I challenge Mark to show us some evidence that TI would have left sooner than DO determined was time to exit. Saying things like this is irresponsible and I’ve had to follow his interviews over the years correcting these kinds of things he and/or Sarah would say. I’m not claiming to be perfect in this regard but the big difference is that I want to be corrected rather than leave misinformation in the public record.

Maybe the fact that Mark wasn’t in the Class after November of 1987 left him with little recognition of how DO went about making choices without TI’s physical presence. He was far more careful in a sense as it was a different relationship with TI outside a physical human vehicle. He literally knew when TI was closer and/or when TI’s Mind was closer via whatever technology TI was using. That’s why when DO moved us all to Atlanta and He couldn’t feel TI’s presence as He could in Colorado, He felt “underwater,” I recall Him saying. When we learned of that a number of students said to DO, let’s move back to Colorado and DO said He felt terrible asking us to do that as He had spent so much money renting three 24 foot Ryder trucks and all the effort to load them with three houses of furnishings galore and giving notice at our jobs in the world, many of which were high tech jobs that employers would be upset about our leaving and leasing three big houses in the Peachtree Dunwoody area of north Atlanta, having to pay thousands of first, last and deposit to live in and in some cases like me, I found a job working for Peachtree Software and hardly came up to speed in learning how their software worked so I could trouble shoot bugs and fix them, what I was good at.

Some students said to him that without his feeling a strong connection to TI, it didn’t matter how much money was involved/lost. DO wondered if He had made a mistake. After all TI had felt for years that going east of the Mississippi river felt like they had less of a connection to their Older Member – TI’s Older Member who was working with both of them from His spacecraft. But even feeling that, they at times felt like they had instructions to take the class east of the Mississippi. Like when we moved to a camping area somewhat north of Biloxi, Mississippi and stayed for maybe a month at most as I recall. Even when TI and DO felt they made mistakes, they knew the difference when they were abiding by instructions from their Older Member. No doubt DO had instruction from TI to move to Atlanta. After all I wonder how that tested some students as one could wonder… didn’t DO go there first to check it out, which he did. Some class-members saw this as a weakness and if they did the Next Level would see that and would even put them to a test to see if they would choose to overcome that negativity or leave the Class because of.

Didn’t Mark recognize that question that many in the media have asked me and that puts DO in a light of having failed? Maybe he hasn’t had much experience being interviewed and perhaps he too allowed himself to wonder if DO lost something after TI left that caused him to get off track from what TI had started with him. That statement directly says that DO hadn’t acted as TI would have.

I’ve heard that view from some former students (in person and in media they have done), like Andody (aka Frank), Rthody (aka Michael), Dncody (aka Dick currently deceased having died over 10 years ago as I recall from complications of HIV), and heard it privately but also in person from Cddody (aka Fred or Dale who also died from a health problem some years back), and I think there were others who made the same claims that DO got off track after TI left and led them to exit as they did when they think TI never would have gone in that direction.

This shows how little they knew of TI. They are letting themselves get conned by the Lower Forces to think that way because there is no evidence of that.

I may be wrong but also feel I’ve heard that view from Robert Balch and perhaps from Ben Zeller. If they are saying that they are showing they don’t know what they are talking about. I haven’t heard Mark or Sarah say it but considering how little Mark seems to think of DO in this article, as shown by my comments in this interview, I wouldn’t be surprised if he and/or Sarah hold some of that opinion that DO got off track in exiting when and by that method of their own hands and/or with that timing.

re: Mark’s statement, “From the beginning, Ti and Do knew we would not be entering the Next Level in our human bodies.

This sort of shocked me to hear as even new believer Cathy has listened to the Beyond Human Series frequently and read the Heaven’s Gate Book several times and listened to dozens of audio tapes, knew what TI and DO were teaching included taking one’s living human physical vehicle (body) on board the spacecraft that would pick them up. In fact TI and DO have met with much criticism over saying their students would leave with their human bodies albeit changed over into Next Level bodies, when that didn’t happen, as if that alone was the criteria that demonstrated whether TI and DO really were exactly who they said they were.

Perhaps what Mark means to say here is that it would be a converted (changed over) human vehicle that goes to Heaven if that is the way the Next Level decides. But if that’s what Mark meant, why didn’t he explain himself better. It’s so misleading to people to say inaccurate things like that. Maybe he forgot what all TI and DO said about it? Or maybe Mark just made a typo in this sentence and it wasn’t caught or corrected but in case Mark got confused about that I’ve included just a few of the many statements made by TI and DO and Crew on the subject:

a. From the Prospective Candidate Letter TI and DO wrote for us in 1975 to give to would be students:

“This is not a spiritual trip. To reach the Next Kingdom above human, your body must
literally be converted over biologically and chemically. This metamorphic process happens
automatically as you will yourself to overcome your humanness.”

b. From Statement One written by DO while in prison that He and TI provided at public meetings in 1975 and 1976 which is in the Heaven’s Gate Book:

“Those who can believe this process and do it will be “lifted up” individually and “saved” from death – literally. If you seek those two while they are here they will gladly fill you in on the details and assist those who wish to follow in this “path.”

Speaking of Jesus:

Approximately 2,000 years ago an individual of that next kingdom forfeited his body of that kingdom and entered a human female’s womb, thereby incarnating as the one history refers to as Jesus of Nazareth. He awakened to this fact gradually through the same metamorphic process and came to know that he had incarnated for the express purpose of telling and showing, even to the point of proof, that the next kingdom can be entered by overcoming the human aspects and literally converting into a “man” or creature of that next kingdom – the kingdom of his Father – one who is already a member of that kingdom. By His resurrection He proved that death can be literally overcome and that a permanent body for the next kingdom is acquired from the human kingdom. He did not leave His body in the grave. He converted it into His body of that next kingdom. This is the only way the next kingdom is entered permanently. Each human has that full potential. Jesus’ “Christing” or christening was completed at His transfiguration (metamorphic completion) and He remained in the “larva” environment, with other humans, only for some 40 days to show that His teaching had been accomplished. He showed them His new body and demonstrated a few of its new attributes, IE, appearing and disappearing (changing His vibrations) before their eyes while letting some of His friends touch His “new” body. This could be compared to a butterfly remaining in the caterpillar world for a few days to show them what they had to look forward to if they chose to seek true conscious communication with a butterfly and were willing to overcome all of their caterpillar ways. Then Jesus left them in a cloud of light (what humans refer to as UFO’s) and moves and returns in the same manner.

c. Here are some of the responses from TI (Bonnie) and DO (Herf) as recorded in the book, UFO Missionaries Extraordinary about going to the Next Level without one’s physical human body needing to die:

Question from Dan Garcia from pg. 71:
Then why is it necessary to convert to the next kingdom?

Bonnie: Because you have to make room for others.
Herf: You have to go through the human kingdom to get to the next… It depends on what your mind is on. A human apparently dies… you would never need to die again. You would overcome decay; you would have the capacity with your mind to create anything you desired; you would have the capacity to serve as agent to help humans come up to the level you have graduated to, and you would not be confined to a single planet.

from page 89:
“The only reason Jesus reappeared to his disciples after his death was to tell them he was flesh and bone. He was not spirit. He didn’t have to be crucified and rise from the dead. He just proved that he’d changed over into another creature that could even heal it’s body and take it with him into the next level.

Now the whole world has twisted what he said into believing that if we’re good little boys and girls and go faithfully to the grave we’ll get some little spirit body that can go to the heavens; and it’s an illusion. You do not have to die.”

Question from pg. 106:
It has been suggested that your followers are prepared to fast to the point of starvation. Is it true that your followers must die in order to gain the price of admission to a UFO for translation, transition, to the next level above human?

The Two: They do not have to die any more than Moses died or Elijah died or Enoch died. They will be lifted up wherever they are. Their metamorphic conversion, their change, will be accelerated. Some short time after we go, they will be prepared to leave. When they are prepared to leave, they will be lifted up.

d. From “Our Position Against Suicide” posted on the Heavensgate.com website that Mark and Sarah have been the webmasters of for some 24 years. Note it says they plan on boarding the spacecraft “in our physical bodies”. How does that square with what Mark said here. (In this document they go on to share what the other possibilities are for exiting leaving their physical bodies behind because of various reasons:

“We fully desire, expect, and look forward to boarding a spacecraft from the Next Level very soon (in our physical bodies). There is no doubt in our mind that our being “picked up” is inevitable in the very near future. But what happens between now and then is the big question. We are keenly aware of several possibilities.”

If he really did mean to say this and believes it, in my opinion that of course could be wrong from how TI and DO would see it, it’s yet another signal that he has some resentment towards DO because of the choices DO made in sending him out of the Class. More and more I feel as though I am seeing that resentment, that he’d probably deny, but that also shows up in the fact that he has been choosing to not follow DO’s instructions to him, via the Letters he got via Fed X on March 25th 1997 that described Their exit and how to handle what they left behind for them and other former members and any new believers to do to share their information with the world.

Mark and Sarah were instructed by DO regards to “any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information”

The storage room being spoken of contained the 1061 audio tapes recorded from 1982 to 1997. Along with handling their mail and helping to publish the book and maintain the web site and take care of some legalities this was their task and one that they have failed at as they won’t allow myself and Crlody (and now Cathy) and others to do that dissemination task. It’s like an Influence has had Mark and Sarah believe keeping the material away from the public was somehow the right thing to do, the opposite of what DO wanted for this time frame.

re: Mark writing: “Flesh and blood are not made for space travel. Instead, we’d receive new, space-capable Next Level bodies. You vacate your earthly vessel either before or after entering the craft – take your pick.”

“take your pick”. I never heard TI or DO say anything about a student getting to make that choice and I doubt they ever did say that. I don’t think Mark is aware of how much misinformation he may be sowing. Some people think what he and Sarah say is representative of what TI and/or DO have said/taught, because they were among the former dropout students to have the task of posting the website. I’ve considered posting the website myself and Rkkody gave it to me, but I didn’t think Mark and Sarah were misusing their position the way that I keep hearing from others, and from this article and others they are. The list of their abuses of the information is very long at this point.

This is putting out misinformation. It seems like that game of telephone to where something heard gets changed and changed by the recipient IF they don’t continuously research what exactly TI and DO said about said subject and try to restrain themselves from interjecting their mind and ideas into the teachings. I have seen myself doing this at times as well but I also do try very hard to research things I say so I’m not just relying on my memory which I know is fallible

For instance as I just showed from Statement One, DO writes that Jesus came back after healing his human vehicle to show that he was still “flesh and bone” and then he took that same body with him to board the spacecraft hidden by a cloud. Is Mark saying that a Next Level spacecraft can not manufacture an environment that wouldn’t damage a human vehicle to be in while it’s on a spacecraft from the Next Level? I do recall that certain Next Level Member’s physical bodies could not exist very long in a human dense decaying environment. We need to be very careful when we hear ourselves saying something about what the Next Level can or can’t do. He may be right to some degree but I’d be careful not to guess at something like that.

I do recall TI and DO talking about exiting our human vehicle before entering the craft OR after entering the craft but what was again not mentioned here is what if one enters the craft with their converted over Human vehicle. In that case they may not leave that human vehicle at all, neither before or after boarding the craft. I could be wrong but do recall TI and DO saying at one point that they didn’t know what use a human vehicle would be to the Next Level. Then at another time they thought it was possible the Next Level might like to analyze the human vehicle that provided for a Soul accomplishing enough of a metamorphosis to have changed over the vehicle into a Next Level vehicle.

Niklas:

Many researchers – with a notable example being Ben Zeller, Assistant Professor of Religion at Lake Forest College and author of Heaven’s Gate: America’s UFO Religion – have suggested that the lukewarm response to the Group’s proselytizing efforts accelerated these leanings.

14. Mark:

– That might have played a part in the timing, but it was going to happen regardless. Again, you must enter the Next Level in a Next Level body. The only question was: would it be done before entering the craft or in the privacy thereof? This time, the instructions were to discard the physical body before boarding – making of it a demonstration to the world. Had this occurred afterwards, it would’ve gone by unnoticed. Would you be writing about them today if option two had been exercised?

14. Sawyer:

For Mark to say, “Again, you must enter the Next Level in a Next Level body. The only question was: would it be done before entering the craft or in the privacy thereof?”

Did the 39 have a Next Level body when they boarded the Spacecraft? The only way I know how to think about that relative to things TI and DO said about it, was that it was the Soul body that was growing in each human vehicle. But DO said in DO’s Final Exit, I think it was, that some of those 38 students might have to return to the human kingdom to finish their Overcoming Process. So we don’t know if those individuals would receive a Next Level grown body or not after they laid down their human vehicles. We do know from Jwnody’s document, Away Team From Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure, found in the Heaven’s Gate Book and on the website (See segment below) that there could be different strata of Next Level bodies.

Plus we also know from that same document plus from other documents/video’s left behind that there were some Souls who weren’t ready to exit with DO and Crew when they did, but who also did recognize DO as their Older Member but had weaknesses and that they also would be “saved” by the Next Level whenever it was that they exited in whatever way they exited if they qualified to be saved that was described in the same document as involving believing TI and DO are from the kingdom that created the earth and all it’s inhabitants and that they need to be willing to “Stand in Defense” of TI and DO and maintain that Stand and accept the consequences of maintaining that stand until their departure.

Here is the clearest depiction I’ve found so far of what DO and Crew understood about who, with what kind of human vehicle, changed over to some degree of growth, would be acceptable to enter a Next Level spacecraft:

Segment from Away Team From Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure By Jwnody:

“The appropriate final step for those about to complete their metamorphosis is the shedding of the “shell” – the shedding of that portion of the old creature which is now close to its end. Whatever amount of new creature that is present, if it is acceptable and still working in a forward motion, will be taken into the Next Level. Theoretically, some of us will still be too “young” (undeveloped) and will require further training before we can qualify to receive an issue of a Next Level “uniform” – biological container (body). It’s possible, however, that there are several strata of Next Level uniforms that will be issued depending on the degree of development of the mind at the completion of this task. Young minds may be issued less advanced vehicles. The all-important issue is, at what point – at what age or maturity of mind – does a soul qualify for a Next Level vehicle that would be serviceable in that new Kingdom.”

The Next Level is in charge of who is ready to enter a Next Level spacecraft with or without their human vehicle and when that might happen. The best we could do is to put all the preparation given to us by TI and DO into motion. To do that preparation requires having a human vehicle so I think taking advantage of having a vehicle to learn needed lessons through is to our advantage. To think anyone has done enough of that preparation is ludicrous as even though we may have learned some of the lessons, dealing with our vehicles desires and the way the lower forces work against us provides increased opportunities to build further strength of Mind.

re: the responses to the meetings in 1994 and whether that had something to do with the timing of their exit:

The responses to the meetings held around the US were quite good in the western U.S. where most of the Souls that were waiting for DO to come public again, having formed relationships with human vehicles. The group nearly doubled their numbers though some dropped away very soon after joining, which was anticipated would happen when some found out it was a serious program and that DO and Crew at the time were fully prepared to exit their vehicles, even by their own hand.

What many don’t understand is that TI and DO were not human beings. They were Next Level Souls using human vehicles. Originally, They didn’t think they were to gather followers but when they happened accepted that was their task. In 1994 DO was taking things one step at a time having learned that having a Class with some at a distance wouldn’t work, because we had started a mail correspondence with a number of people who responded to the Beyond Human Series and the USA Today Ad and the same article posted in many New Age periodicals.

I recall he talked about feeling there could be new students and also considered that there could be many but He and TI were never eager to deal with large numbers. However from being present then, I do believe I recall that DO did wonder if being bolder about who it is we all were in history could trigger hatred against us and could accelerate our exit because of. Meetings held in the eastern half of the US mostly had very low turnouts so the handwriting was on the wall to cease holding meetings come September.

However when one listens to audio tapes from 1996 and 1997 DO was still talking about having projects that shared the information with the public even as a theatrical musical big production that included singing, music and a light show and that he was considering wearing a costume of an EBE headgear and even having his ears that were quite large surgically reduced to fit under the headgear and traveling town to town as a troop and/or having a castration contest in Las Vegas and/or forming a monastery people could come visit and stay for 2-3 days and using Ells Angels as Security for public events, and/or forming a monastery in India because India seemed more accepting of various religious groups as opposed to the U.S. where Christians could be even violently against them. At one point he was ready to exit his vehicle and expressed to his students that they should not feel obligated to exit with him in the way he was choosing, that they wouldn’t be failing to not exit with him in that way. These ideas were contemplated over weeks time, to be found talked about in a number of audio tapes from 1996-1997.

DO couldn’t imagine staying until his and each of the student’s vehicles individually dropped dead from old age, and/or diseases. He wanted to see He and TI and Crews legacy continued after they left because he knew their information was germinating throughout the human kingdom as they had been depositing thoughts for some 24 years.

re: whether the so called low turnout at the 1994 meetings had something to do with the exit date:

I tend to agree with Mark that sure it was a factor that showed DO a few things. Those who were waiting for their Older Member to show up public again did respond because the Next Level helped them be in the right place at the right time. Plus DO had gone public being about as bold as he could be revealing that He was the return of the same Soul who was in Jesus, as promised, which many Christians say they were waiting for. Plus it showed DO that the Luciferian Space Alien Fallen Angel Souls, the Lower Forces strategy was such that regardless of how bold DO was, they would mostly have humans ignore them, thus wouldn’t be taking any actions against them that could even accelerate their exit of their vehicles nor try to put DO in jail on some trumped up charges. DO talked about this in some audio tapes from 1996-7. So the low turnout was part of many signs that they had nothing left to do but prepare to exit, though over those last 2 1/2 years DO still considered often whether there was still more to do to bring their information to the public eye again. It was just about how and when and where.

DO’s choice to leave when he did was because of constant wanting to do whatever he felt TI was giving to him in response to his asking TI. That was the process from 1973 one step at a time.

re: Mark writing, “Had this occurred afterwards, it would’ve gone by unnoticed. Would you be writing about them today if option two had been exercised?”

It’s always smarter when we hear ourselves saying something as a statement of fact like; “it would’ve gone by unnoticed” and asking the question, “Would you be writing about them today if option two had been exercised?” to restrain such statements because the facts are we can’t ever truly second guess the Next Level Above Human Older Members. Who knows what other strategies the Next Level could have employed to make a big event that would have people taking notice and writing about them for decades later. TI and DO even talked about another scenario in audio tape 149 that involved lots of media literally filming TI, DO and Crew walking up a ramp onto a Next Level spacecraft.

Niklas:

Shortly after the evacuation conference – but for unrelated reasons – another long-time member who’d joined at the Waldport meeting left the Group. He was sent to live with Mrcody and Srfody in Phoenix, presumably to help him re-adapt to life in modern society.

15. Mark:

– We did serve to transition Swyody to the world, yes. The Group called us every day during late September and October to see how we were doing. They were worried he was going to go off the deep end. He did. Swyody boomeranged into drugs, music, sex, and a general tendency to do nothing.

His motivation was nearly at zero as he bounced like a pinball from one human experience to the other. We finally told them that we had to push Swyody out to an apartment we’d found for him, to allow us to continue with our lives.

He became a bum and ended up with some musicians in Mesa, which somewhat surprised the Group. It was no coincidence that, thirty months later, he did not receive any of the Class’ final instructions about what to do following their departure. They had his phone number and address but sent him nothing. He also birthed a child – which we did not, so we’d be ready for Next Level instructions. And the Class knew it.

He has since taken on roles of dissemination the Group did not give him. These tasks are self-generated and not from the Next Level. In fact, his information and views are quite the opposite.

He appears in every interview because we turn them down. We take care of all the legal issues, and the production companies run to him in need of talking heads. Such has been the cycle for many years now.

15. Sawyer (Swyody):

So often Mark says things in a way, that to me sounds like an exaggeration that puts a greater light on himself. I mean, I’m glad he and Sarah were willing to help me then, as DO arranged with them on my behalf, but what actually happened was hardly a “transition to the world”. For some reason I didn’t need a transition to the world. Here’s what happened from my view:

Mark picked me up at Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix and took me to He and Sarah’s house and gave me a guest room to sleep in. The only thing I remember Sarah saying to me when I arrived was, “none of that sex stuff”, just like that. I was not aware of anything I thought, said or did that ever stimulated her saying this.

Even though I didn’t remember this from being in the Class when DO said it and recorded it on an audio we still have, I learned that in fact, DO said, (paraphrased) that 1/2 the male students while she was still in the classroom were having to fight off thoughts of sensuality with her. DO said this in audio tape 426 made on November 14, 1989. He said about Srfody’s Influence that “It was an influence that had half the males in the Class fighting it off”.

Never mind that she was involved with Alxody while in the Classroom before TI left, if I recall to where they went into a closet and were feeling each other up. I believe Alxody exposed what happened which is how I learned of it. I had had a number of experiences in the Classroom with what seemed like she was coming on to me that I gave no response to. Srrody told me that she had come on to him in some way. I don’t believe for a minute she wanted to have sex with me. I think she was using sexuality to lure whoever might give into it so she could get out of the class. But DO said Srfody’s “Influence” had attempted to lure me in particular away from joining the Class and was now working on Mark.

So they lent me a car to drive to look for a job which I found in a very short time working as a dinner cook for Marriott Resort in Scottsdale, AZ. DO had given me $600.00 in cash. I bought my own food and was rarely at their house. I didn’t cook there and don’t recall putting anything in the refrigerator I ate in my room if not when I was out and about. I bought a bicycle and began to ride from my job some 5 miles to work and back to their house at first. I then found an apartment in Mesa and rode my bicycle to work and back (10 miles) everyday. After another week or so, Mark and Sarah got in touch and suggested my checking out a furnished apartment closer to where I worked, with someone If I recall they knew that wanted to rent out a room in their apartment. So I guess they did vouch for me, which was nice, as I didn’t have any references besides them and don’t recall needing any or anything like that. I took the room and remained there for some months until I moved to NY.

Since Mark has said all these things about me, I’ll have to address every one.

a. “The Group called us every day during late September and October to see how we were doing.”

I never knew of these phone calls but given the way Mark has evidenced vast exaggerations, I doubt they called him “every day” for some 40 days?

b. “They were worried he was going to go off the deep end.”

Why is Mark being so vague? What does “deep end” look like? What did they say that gave DO that impression. I want details.

c. Mark says, “He did” (go off the deep end). He goes on to say about me, “Swyody boomeranged into drugs, music, sex, and a general tendency to do nothing.”

I did no drugs whatsoever. Even if I did want to smoke pot, I didn’t know anyone who had it and I just didn’t have that desire then. When I moved to NY it was my brother who re-introduced me to smoking pot and that’s as far as I ever got into “drug” usage after having joined the Class in 1975. As a kid in my late teens I was an avid pot smoker and did a bunch of acid trips.

Mark shows so much evidence of jumping to all sorts of conclusions and making all sorts of assumptions and exaggerations and outright lying.

At that time I did buy a harmonica while I was driving back and forth to my job using Mark and Sarah’s car before I bought a bicycle. But I never played it for them or for anyone or with anyone. When I was in that apartment I bought a set of Conga drums and began to play them. I was subletting from this youngish woman but I had nothing to do with her and didn’t know if she was a musician. I feel I played those drums a little in that apartment and she never said anything about it. I can’t actually remember how I would have got the drums into that apartment. I didn’t have a car and they were not light weight. And then I moved out to the other apartment and could only play them when the owner wasn’t there. I rented a flute. I didn’t listen to music at all.

I certainly didn’t have sex with anyone and didn’t even want to have sex with anyone. In fact it was several years later that I had sex so again where in the world is he getting this stuff. He’s lying.

I think what’s happening here is he is seeking to get back at me for calling him out on his many lies and misinformation generation that he has committed for over 20 years that I know about and can prove with many articles that I critiqued on my blog sawyerhg.wordpress.com. His memory is growing bad it seems and he appears to be losing recognition of what TI and DO taught which is apparent in this interview. He seems to be blaming DO and Class members for his situation while feeling like he has been vindicated because He and Sarah were given a few simple tasks. I’m not saying they weren’t difficult tasks as even keeping the website up and running and fielding lots of negativity for years is no easy task but I know that tasks as I have been dealing with the same for many years and it’s doable and especially if we trust TI and DO will help us as we go and ask of them.

d. His motivation was nearly at zero as he bounced like a pinball from one human experience to the other.

I wasn’t even talking to them about anything. I didn’t eat with them. I didn’t ask them questions. I knew nothing about what they say here they were telling DO. Look at the way Mark is expressing himself as if he knows anything about anything that I was doing. He just wants to put me down with his silly analogies.

Motivation? I was motivated to continue my life outside the classroom. Did I have a plan, No, I did not. I found the job, I bought a bicycle to ride to work. I bought instruments to restart my musical talents.

e. “We finally told them that we had to push Swyody out to an apartment we’d found for him, to allow us to continue with our lives.”

I found the Mesa apartment by myself. I couldn’t stand being with them in their house. They lied to DO if they told DO that they had to push me out to an apartment. I wanted to leave so I did. It’s true they helped me find a better living space closer to where I worked, which I was thankful for.

How is it that I interfered with their lives? Perhaps using their car, but that’s why I bought a bicycle. Perhaps they did say that they needed the car. I could understand that but I wasn’t just sitting around in their house. I was looking for work and I found work and then also secured additional work from my old employer when I lived in Scottsdale, AZ working for Murray Whipps, who had the software company Phoenix Phive Software who I programmed for. He hired me to work from home, which went into affect when I moved to NY.

f. “He became a bum and ended up with some musicians in Mesa, which somewhat surprised the Group.”

I never met anyone. I had no friends in Mesa or AZ for the months I was there. How was I a bum when I was working a full time job. It’s on my social security information when I worked for the Marriott resort hotel. They never gave me any money that I recall. On may days off I would ride my bicycle many miles to a grocery store, buy food and put the bags in a basket on the rear of the bike and hold some bags on the handlebars of the bike. They are losing their lawsuit against me and since I talk about them in a derogatory way because of their lies and deceit over 25 years on my live-stream I suspect Mark couldn’t not have an interview where he could vent against me. Since he has nothing truthful and substantial to say, he is exaggerating and outright lying.

I believe Mark and Sarah also resent me and Cathy and Carlan for not bowing to them and challenging the deceitful things they say over and over to people.

g. “It was no coincidence that, thirty months later, he did not receive any of the Class’ final instructions about what to do following their departure. They had his phone number and address but sent him nothing.”

I didn’t know they had my address and phone number and wouldn’t have minded if they had. I occasionally spoke with Rkkody on the phone then and Rkkody may have sent me some things then. I know Rkkody was in touch with DO even in 1994-1997 though was out of the Classroom again. Rkkody at one point asked me on DO’s behalf, “what up with you” to which I said, “nothing has changed for me”. I would say that’s why they didn’t send me a packet. I didn’t express to them that I wanted service. I’m embarrassed by that but that’s what was happening.

Mark seems to use it as a way of putting me down, when he and Sarah did receive an instruction packet but then ignored most of DO’s wishes in it and now are preventing people from hearing the audio tapes that is also against TI and DO’s wishes that are well documented in the audio tapes and their many public actions they took after TI left that were timely with that stage in the Classroom and for those who were yet to awaken to embrace TI and DO’s Mind.

h. “He also birthed a child – which we did not, so we’d be ready for Next Level instructions.”

This is quite the telling statement. He is comparing what I did with what they didn’t do. I am not in competition with them but they appear to be in competition with me – otherwise why even bring up this comparison? Sure having a child does have some restrictions on where to go and when. But having a business does the same thing if one can’t leave that business without the business suffering.

I still found ways to serve TI and DO and did all the time. They don’t know about all that because I don’t answer to them and never trusted them.

And talking about being of service. If one listens to audio tape #333 you will hear how DO wanted some Students to minister to Mrcody and Srfody to help them get out of turning against their Older Members (who DO was one of). Also you will hear how DO offered them tasks and they refused them and they didn’t even have children to blame such refusal on. They didn’t want their lives interfered with, DO indicated.

i. “He has since taken on roles of dissemination the Group did not give him.”

j. “These tasks are self-generated and not from the Next Level.”

I guess Mark and Sarah missed how part of DO’s total effort in the years after DO left was spend on dissemination of the truth they bore, their information, the Mind He and TI drew into their vehicles to give to their student body and to the world.

Did Mark ever read the Heaven’s Gate Book, I wonder. After all, it says in many ways that “getting their information out” was literally a task for all Souls who have returned. (see the text below). I am one of those Souls. Cathy is one of those Souls. Every new believer is one of those Souls. Mark and Sarah want to pretend only they are commissioned to disseminate TI and DO’s information and on top of that they aren’t even doing that task except by hiding themselves behind the website as if that’s enough to do. There is no enough to do. They literally said to Cathy and I in person, asking us, “isn’t what we are doing enough?” They seem to see TI and DO’s teachings the way a religionist new ager might see them as a body of information that is for study purposes only. No application is needed yet without application of what They described in part or in full according to each person’s desire, no service is being provided to them and without service only an illusion of working on their behalf, though of course I am not anyone’s judge or my own but what I can judge to some degree is what came from TI and DO’s Mind though their writings and audio and video tapes. The Lower Forces hate to hear or see TI and DO’s teachings provided anyone as they want to steal Souls to their ranks.

Segment from Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure, written by Jwnody – trusted elder student of TI and DO, in the Heaven’s Gate Book and shown on Heavengate.com:

“There is a tiny remnant left of a window for catching the eye of the “caretakers of this world.” In order to get saved for further planting, the overriding requirement is to recognize that this is true (these are the facts). You must believe that we represent the Kingdom that created this planet and all of its inhabitants. And you must be willing to take a stand in defense of that belief, and sustain that stand until the end – your departure – regardless of the consequences.”

“You must be willing to take a Stand in defense of that belief.”

What does taking a Stand look like, one may ask. Can anyone defend someone if they don’t know what they stood for and what they said and did? I think not. So this compels new believers and old believers to learn all they can about what TI and DO and Crew taught and to then be equip to share that with others when/if the time arises that they want to Stand in Defense as this states.

And one must “sustain that stand until the end – your departure – regardless of the consequences

Also from same document:

“The only question that remains unanswered is how long the Next Level will permit the alien forces to present their agenda – how long is long enough for all souls to pledge their allegiance for or against – to one side or the other. Every soul must be put to the final test. And as we warned you at the outset, consider your options thoroughly. Hasty judgments are ill-advised.”

If all souls must be put to the final test what does that final test look like? Souls using human vehicles must choose who to pledge their allegiance to, for or against TI and DO. What does allegiance look like – again would that be Standing in Defense of TI and DO?

In another spot in the same document.

“Every soul, that was a part of a deposit, at any time during this civilization, is back to make their choices once again. Some of these may be younger, perhaps second- or first-trimester, souls. Although they may not even have a chance to get to know us before our departure, we do recognize them, because they “recognize the enemy.” They see through the lies and no longer want to be a part of this world. And so it is our task to give them a chance to leave this place by getting this information out. Often the symptoms of a deposit from our Domain can be seen in an individual’s lack of motivation or rebellion against the world, or “system,” and what it has to offer. In their futility, many of these individuals turn to the corrupt devices that are most anesthetizing. You will not find them with the so-called mainstream righteous, but more likely with your social dropouts or even as addicts or criminals – as your so- called “sinners.” Another manifestation of worldly dissatisfaction can be seen in the current movement of radical separatists – patriot/militia types – who clearly recognize the corrupt condition of today’s governments (particularly the dominant governments of the Western world). It is for those that we have come again – to give them a way out of this corrupt human kingdom, which was never designed to work or be satisfactory unto itself.”

This sentence to me clearly aligns with the last two listed here:

“And so it is our task to give them a chance to leave this place by getting this information out.”

“Our” is referring to DO and Crew of which Jwnody was/is a part.
“them” are the Souls who have returned, some being first or second trimester souls which means some may be third trimester souls like Jwnody was.

“them” are being given the chance by DO and Crew (our) “to leave this place by getting this information out”. Does this mean that the process of getting this information out could be what causes some to leave this place, aka exiting their vehicle because of?

Doesn’t that match, being “willing to Stand in Defense of that belief (of TI and DO and Crew being from the Kingdom that created the earth and all it’s inhabitants)?

And one must “sustain that stand until the end – your departure – regardless of the consequences

---

So, in summary, this time is a test time for all souls. In a test there are requirements to get a passing grade (to be saved from recycling):

• Get the information out
• Believe TI and DO are Reps from Creators Kingdom
• Be willing to Stand in Defense of that belief
• Maintain that stand until the end – your departure regardless of the consequences

Who is this written for:

Every Soul who is back whether first, second or third trimester Souls

So if Every Soul is to get the information out and this instruction was given by DO via Jwnody on his behalf, anyone who performs getting the information out would be working for DO and it would not be “self-generated” as Mark claimed I was doing. Such tasks were generated by DO and Crew here.

Am I a first, second or third trimester Soul?

DO said I was and it can be seen in the Beyond Human series session One.

So Mark is dead wrong to say, “He has since taken on roles of dissemination the Group did not give him. These tasks are self-generated and not from the Next Level”

k. “In fact, his information and views are quite the opposite.”

Isn’t it telling that one can see here that exactly what Mark is claiming about me are the very things he is doing. He’s the one who keeps on expressing views that are the opposite of what TI and DO taught. Remember in the section #13 Mark said, “From the beginning, Ti and Do knew we would not be entering the Next Level in our human bodies” and I then showed how TI and DO actually said the opposite by showing proof in Statement One, UFO Missionaries Extraordinary (and I could show that proof in a number of places).

l. “He appears in every interview because we turn them down.”

If so, then why did they turn them down? Could it be they were doing documentaries that they wanted someone who was real, someone with a face and a voice rather than just some email chats that say next to nothing most of the time because they don’t want to take the time to really explain how TI and DO taught because they remembered so little because they went against DO after they left and didn’t keep up with listening to tapes and reading their actual words but instead cultivated their own New Age interpretation so that those who knew them personally would look up to them in some way as Spiritual leaders.

I suspect they turned down broadcasters because they didn’t want people to know what they looked like and sound like. I suspect it was because they had too much to lose in the businesses they had if they were seen on television speaking favorably about what most of the media portray as a Suicide Cult. It is scary but that’s the price one pays to Stand in Defense of TI and DO being from the Creators Kingdom who created the earth and all it’s inhabitants.

m. We take care of all the legal issues, and the production companies run to him in need of talking heads. Such has been the cycle for many years now.

Yes, they took care of some legal issues but they have created for themselves having many legal issues. For instance, though DO didn’t give them any instructions to copyright anything but a common law copyright on the Heaven’s Gate Book, they filed copyrights that are in question as to their legitimacy because according to Judge Lisa Guy Schall they showed her no documents that brings evidence the group was transferring anything to them. What the judge states in her decision in 1999 was that they were only to be distributors of the Intellectual property. We even have Sarah stating this on record. That’s a far cry from being the only distributors and copyrighting some of the audio tapes that weren’t even in storage when San Diego ruled them to go to the deceased estates. Upon Mark and Sarah’s appeal the judge didn’t want to hold up the ruling to sell in auction the personal possessions of the group, she then settled and sold Mark and Sarah the Intellectual property in storage that included the audio tapes and charged them $2000.00 and required them to give them several of the groups cars that DO had instructed be given to some of the 8 former dropouts who wanted to serve then and to one new believer.

Niklas:

In 1995, the Group purchased forty acres of land in Manzano, New Mexico. It had previously served as a summer camp, as evidenced by the mess hall still standing on the property. Inspired by the housing model laid out in Earthship: How to Build Your Own – a book by American architect and ecologist Michael Reynolds – they constructed a veritable fortress from recycled tyres and cement. The structure even boasted a guard tower and a stash of firearms.

16. Mark:

– We were not aware of the Earthship or the related activities. It seems they put in a lot of work there. But we did help them with many requests while they were in New Mexico, such as funneling cash donations.

16. Sawyer:

Let’s see some examples of where the donations came from and how much.

Niklas:

Were any of the donors unaffiliated with the Group?

17. Mark:

– No, we are not aware of any donations from outsiders. During the 1990s, a few former members would supply cash to aid them in their mission. But beyond Ollody and Lggody in the late 70s, there were never any substantial donors.

17. Sawyer:

So there were no donors from outsiders and there were no “substantial donors” from within the group besides Ollody and Lggody. Who is left to donate? Maybe I’m missing something but he might be losing his mind here.

Niklas:

Once the weather turned cold, maintaining the Earthship to a satisfactory degree became too much work. So, after ten months in Manzano, the Group relocated to Phoenix. Soon after arriving, they set up a foundation called TELAH Services – TELAH being an acronym for The Evolutionary Level Above Human – meant to handle mail requests for books and tapes.

18. Mark:

– We kept in touch through 1995 until they, ‘by chance’, entered our new postal store in Phoenix to establish a mail-order relationship. Using our company office as their address – the one still on the website to this day – Lggody and Mllody set up TELAH Services as a legal entity with a bank account. It was all tied into their online activities and other tasks. They turned the corporation over to us in May 1996; after that, we were asked to assist them with many things. We helped where we could, but safety for both parties was always in play.

18. Sawyer:

Mark said, “They turned the corporation over to us in May 1996.”

If that is true then why didn’t DO and Crew give Mark and Sarah the correct paperwork to support their doing something with Their corporation? And if Mark and Sarah couldn’t do what they hoped to do by having the corporation transferred to them why didn’t that get resolved before the Group left their human vehicles by March of 1997.

Niklas says in this article something about the complication they encountered in point 35:

“To complicate matters further, TELAH Services – the business set up by the Group and transferred to Srfody and Mrcody – was still registered to Logan Lahson, known in the Class as Lggody. The state of Arizona would not allow for this to be changed; instead, the entity itself had to be renamed.”

Is it right to assume Niklas got that information from Mark and Sarah? I think so as until recently only Mark and Sarah would know this since it was written about in Judge Lisa Guy Schall’s decision that Logan Lahson owned Telah Services.

In case Mark denies what Niklas reported here as Telah Services having been registered to Logan Lahson, aka Lggody in the Classroom and legally John Michael Craig, here is the verbiage to the legal document from the:

SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO STATEMENT OF DECISION of what to do with the possessions of the Heaven’s Gate group in the name of JOHN MICHAEL CRAIG, also known as LOGAN M. LAWSON, aka LOGAN LAHSON, Deceased in Case No. PNO22228 that was presided over on January 11, 1999 in Department A of the above-entitled court, the Honorable Lisa Guy-Schall, Judge, presiding shows the matter was tried without a jury and concluded on January 13, 1999.

This court case documents the possessions of the Group in the Mansion and in the Storage units. The Public Administrator marshaled a Certificate of Trade Name Registration for Higher
Source Contract Enterprises (Trial Exhibit Number 211), and an application for Registration
for Trade Name for Telah Services (Trial Exhibit Number 212), which are in the name of
decedent Logan Lahson, aka John Craig.

So some of my questions about this involve why Mark and Sarah King flew to Washington D.C. to meet with Bureaucrats to rename Telah Services as Telah Foundation. Wouldn’t the Group have saw to that happening IF DO and Crew wanted Mark and Sarah to make that change? Yet if Mark and Sarah hadn’t done that, I doubt they would have been able to make a case for registering copyrights and trademarks the Group gave no indication they wanted done.

The only form of that DO and Crew expressed in the Letter to Mark and Sarah was stating that the wanted Oscody to register Their Book with the Library of Congress.

But apparently Mark and Sarah were not happy with that instruction alone and chose to copyright 486 of the 1061 audio tapes found in Storage, The Beyond Human series (the Group had documented that they copyrighted as shown on the original tape jackets, to Total Overcomers Anonymous, aka TOA, the lithographic image referred to as the CBE art work – Celestial Being Entity, and trademarks for the Away Team Patch, the use of the phrase, Heaven’s Gate and the use of what is known as the Heaven’s Gate logo that pictures a giant keyhole with the words Heaven’s on top and Gate inside the keyhole.

They have no proof that they received instructions from DO and Crew to copyright and trademark anything yet they have lied to my face and Cathy’s face and to Carlan saying they had all of the Groups Intellectual Property copyrighted.

I haven’t figured out whether they have done something shady with these copyrights yet but it appears they did, perhaps unknowingly but they are using those copyrights to try to stop me, Cathy and Carlan and even Jhnody from disseminating TI and DO’s audios and other information they left behind for all to have.

There is a great deal to show in all this but I’ll reserve it for another time but I just wanted to show a little of the causes for great questions of what Mark and Sarah have done and continue to do and think that it’s right by TI and DO to sue former Classmates and new believers for sharing TI and DO’s information. It’s bizarre but they don’t see it. They don’t think they could be wrong in the way they say they think about doing the dissemination task for DO.

Niklas:

Also in May 1996, for the first time in 4,200 years, the comet that would eventually become known as Hale-Bopp grew visible to the naked eye. It had been completely unknown to the scientific community until ten months earlier when two amateur astronomers, Alan Hale and Thomas Bopp, discovered a gigantic heavenly body with a dust envelope the size of our sun approaching the orbit of Jupiter. In contemporary popular culture, Hale-Bopp seems to be the primary association most people have with Heaven’s Gate. However, it is a common misconception that they believed a spacecraft to be trailing the comet; rather, it was interpreted as the celestial omen they’d been waiting for. Hale-Bopp caught the entire world’s imagination and inflamed interest among everyone from religious personalities to conspiracy theorists. One outlet that picked up a lot of the extravagant ideas in circulation, such as the one about a UFO hiding behind the comet, was Art Bell’s classic radio show Coast to Coast, which the Group is said to have listened to regularly.

19. Mark:

– We don’t like UFO shows – they are boring. Srfody and I paid no attention to it and heard about this only after they departed. And no, there was no craft following the comet. Hale-Bopp was never important to us; it was just a marker. As was Easter.

19. Sawyer:

Boring, Mark says. I guess he doesn’t care about what DO cared about and said about UFO’s, Space Aliens being the same Souls known in the records as Lucifer and his associates who went against their Next Level Older Members and now try to turn humans eyes away from the reality that TI and DO were actually The Father and “Jesus” who promised to return to complete the task.

Why not take this interview as an opportunity to talk about how TI and DO talked about Comet Khoutek in 1973 as a marker of He and TI’s 9+ months of awakening and how the lower forces sought to stop them from performing their task.

I could understand being asleep when it actually happened, because I was not that interested in it then but if they sought to be in service to TI and DO by participating in the Dissemination Project DO and Crew spoke about they and at least the other 6 former students, they hoped would perform on their behalf after their exit, then they would have to learn everything they missed in the time they were choosing to remain outside the Class. If they did begin to study the materials they left behind in the Heaven’s Gate Book, they would have to see that in the time after they were sent out of the Classroom, DO started a very in depth investigation into the UFO phenomena that included Space Races (aliens). They would have read the USA Today Info/Ad that spoke about how they seemed to believe that Their Students had come to earth in spacecrafts and intentionally crashed some of them, laying down the existing dense physical bodies they had before then so they could take over human vehicles that they with the Next Level’s help picked and prepped, to be vehicles they would try to take over and make their servants to complete their remaining overcoming of humanness to qualify to become Young Members of the Next Level Above Human, the graduation Jesus laid out some of the requirements for, that he called being “born of Spirit/Mind” after they were “born again of water” (flesh).

And if they did take an interest in the Hale Bopp Comet, they would learn that DO not only considered it the Marker they had been waiting for but how He considered it the Marker He and TI had been anticipating coming all along that included TI’s spacecraft coming to literally pick them up, something neither they or I qualified for.

They would come to see how different Hale Bopp was from any other comets. And if they weren’t interested in it and UFO’s then how did they expect to provide service by explaining TI and DO’s teachings and thinking about such things.

Regarding UFO’s, a boring subject? Again, isn’t there a great value to learning at least what DO said about the subject over the years they missed. For instance in the end of that document DO wrote entitled, “’88 Update – The UFO Two and Their Crew” there was a list of books and video’s DO found interesting about the subjects of UFO’s and Space Aliens. The list included several books and Video’s about UFO’s like “UFO Crash at Aztec”, “The Roswell Incident”, the documentary “UFO’s What’s Going On” and much more. There were the autopsy reports from Leonard Stringfield and much more.

No wonder why they seem to hate me and Cathy and Carlan. Though we are far from perfect we are attempting to bring eyes and ears to all the information DO and Crew left behind for us (all in the world) to consume. They don’t seem to want to do that except in the most minimal way of keeping the website up and eventually posting the Beyond Human Series on Vimeo after they had been posted on HeavensGateDatabase for close to two decades. And they still hardly send anyone any of the audio tapes yet they are filled with a vast amount of information that to even someone who has no belief in TI and DO would find fascinating. Why hasn’t the Heaven’s Gate Book been put on Amazon or other places on the internet. It’s like they don’t want to sell them. I think they are blinded by their own fears that people will kill themselves yet all they have to do is keep on reminding people of the posting on the website that is entitled, “Our Position Against Suicide” and what DO said about that action in DO’s Final Exit, that death isn’t a ticket to Heaven and what Stmody said about suicide being of no value for those who remained who had not had a relationship with an incarnate Representative and how we all need our human vehicles to use to learn the many lessons there are to learn in the human kingdom including conquering addictions and selfishness and dealing with certain failures and jealousies, etc.

Plus to say definitively that, “there was no craft following the comet” further shows they don’t know how wrong they can be and that they both need desperately to begin to accept the reasons why they were sent out of the Class and accept the embarrassment that comes with that and stop acting like they are these great leaders assigned by DO to be some type of overseers of the legacy of TI and DO (by hiding away 1061 audio tapes) acting exactly opposite what TI and DO and Crew clearly expressed many times in many ways in the past and even in the Letters they sent to them, Rkkody, Jhnody and no doubt others about what they hoped would happen after their exit Perform the Dissemination Project.

They show their ignorance and huge ego to tell me I’m not working for the Next Level. It’s just like this statement that there is “no craft following the comet”. How do they KNOW that. Are they so in tune with TI and DO’s Mind. If so how come DO didn’t say there was no companion object with Hale Bopp Comet? What DO said was that “it was irrelevant” whether there was or wasn’t a spacecraft with Hale Bopp Comet because he knew TI was coming to pick him and his students up with or without their physical bodies (which is part of why they packed a bag).

Actually when one examines all the documentation we can find on the existence of a companion object one could come upon, as I have, the photograph from a Japanese Observatory that shows evidence of a large object close to Hale Bopp Comet and how when Hale Bopp disappeared behind the Sun and came out the other side it then had three tails, which was before then unheard of. Comets normally have two tails. Plus in the gatherings that scientists did in the years after Hale Bopp came to perihelion they studied many pictures and determined that it had a “dual nucleus” and that these two nucleus’ were in orbit around a common center. In other words it appeared to be two objects. Perhaps the Companion merged with Hale Bopp and hence the third tail as in the Japanese photo the alleged companion had a black tail.

Niklas:

By October 1996, Heaven’s Gate – still using the Total Overcomers Anonymous moniker – had left Arizona for California. They took up residence in the exclusive San Diego community of Rancho Santa Fe, renting an enormous mansion for a whopping $7,000 per month. Earlier that same year, the Group had founded a web-design company called Higher Source; I’m assuming this is what allowed for the accommodation upgrade.

20. Mark:

– We think there has been a misunderstanding about the financial assistance provided by Higher Source. It was basically a wash. A lot of money was invested when the company started in April 1996 – computers, technology, etc. – and it only lasted until February 1997. There was some revenue from website contracts during those ten months, but the start-up costs were very high. In late March or April 1997, we tried to acquire some of the account receivables the Class asked us to retrieve but got none of it. The clients denied having had work done or even knowing anyone from the Group. Some out of embarrassment for being associated with a ‘cult’, whereas others just didn’t want to pay the bill. So, Higher Source did not bring in the kind of funds the rumors say. We have their financial ledgers, and it simply isn’t true.

Niklas:

How did Heaven’s Gate come to have so many skilled IT professionals?

21. Mark:

– It wasn’t the case of having skilled IT professionals: they were devoted Next Level members who could perform whatever tasks they were assigned. Many of those who worked in this field did not have computer backgrounds. Students learned, improved, and excelled. We could switch our skills to whatever discipline was needed to carry out the task at hand. Classmates could write and edit a book, then switch to handling a backhoe the day after, only to start developing construction skills when building the Earthship. The Group switched over to the internet and coding in 1996. Whatever was needed could be filled by members. Many individuals learned to code, and the best were picked for service. With a clear, focused, and disciplined mind, you can handle many things coming your way.

21. Sawyer:

Mllody was the first Class-member to get an OOC Task working with computers. She had a college degree in IT, trained to be a Cobol Programmer before she joined with TI and DO. Mllody quickly qualified to have jobs for Banks like MTech and Computer Companies like Hewelet Packard. She advanced to become a Programmer Analyst even a manager of those kinds of departments in big corporations.

Nrrody also might have had a degree before she joined as she became a manager of Technical Writing for Dell and for Texas Instruments and other large corporations.

It was in the 1980’s when TI and DO bought us an Apple IIe computer. They wanted others to learn office work using computers so we’d get better jobs in the world to support the needs of the Classroom and so that we wouldn’t have such unpredictable schedules we had with the restaurant jobs most of us had then. They wanted us to have 9am to 5pm Monday thru Friday jobs so we could count on having weekends off for more concentrated Class lesson time, meetings with TI and DO. Plus they paid better. I was given the option to get familiar with the Apple IIe and I was intrigued by scrolling the pages of computer code that made programs work so I studied the coding language Apple Basic.

I advanced in office jobs to gain contracting programming jobs in Texas. Srrody who also either had some skills or developed them from study like I did, also got good Assembly Language and C Programming jobs, while mine were using BASIC and 4GL’s like DBase, etc. At one point DO had Srrody and I form a company. We got a DBA for the name, Think Link and later another called, Word Wise. We secured a contract to develop software for a Houston Bank I think we got paid about 8,000.00 for.

Later 5 of us got jobs at Subscriber Computing, Inc. in California. I was a programmer there as was Srrody. Mllody was a programmer Analyst manager and Nrrody the manager of the Tech Writing documentation department. Stlody was a Networking Technician. We lived in San Diego area while working those jobs remotely all from one room in the Craft. Then when we moved to Arizona, Mllody and Nrrody kept their manager jobs by doing so with conference calls and occasionally flying back to California to attend mandatory meetings.

I could be wrong but believe I held down programming jobs even before TI left her vehicle in 1985 but if those were just office jobs then I certainly was programming by the time Mark and Sarah were sent out of the Class in 1987 but perhaps Mark just didn’t know about that happening to say the programming started in 1996.

Niklas:

In October 1996, the Group released two videos: Last Chance to Evacuate Earth Before it’s Recycled and Planet About to be Recycled – Your Only Chance to Survive – Leave with Us. This concept of an impending Recycling was a core tenet in the Heaven’s Gate worldview. They believed the Next Level to regularly carry out full planetary resets of the environment, as well as of any lifeforms sustained by it. This is typically implemented through catastrophic natural events, such as whatever ended the era of dinosaurs. The only chance for consciousness to survive would be to transcend to the Next Level. From their perspective, actual suicide would be staying behind to face the Recycling as an ordinary human. But simply offing oneself without having first qualified for and then organized a Next Level collection is pointless, seeing as how it would merely trigger another cycle of reincarnation.

22. Mark:

– Srfody and I found the information on the tapes consistent with what we’d been taught. As you know, they were styled differently to appeal either to a religious or a sci-fi-oriented audience, respectively. For security reasons, the Group often had us handling the shipping. We sent them out to the appropriate locations: many legal, governmental, and religious entities in the United States and the rest of the world received copies. We also dealt with the returns, of which there were many. Lots of ‘Return to Sender’, ‘We don’t want your tapes’, and similar mean-spirited rejections. The religious organizations were especially rough. Every TV evangelist received a tape, and their responses were mixed. It is always amazing to see what kind of behavior such people can justify as compatible with their teachings.

22. Sawyer:

Because of the many responses from Mark in this interview, many of which the reader will come to read, to where Mark seems to have a view of DO as a leader who believed rumors about Mark and Sarah put forth by certain classmembers and felt DO believed he made a mistake to send Mark and Sarah out of the Class, this first statement seems to reflect that same attitude. He says, “Srfody and I found the information on the tapes consistent with what we’d been taught.” Was there ever a possibility that what DO said in those video tapes of DO speaking might not be consistent with what He taught? I could be wrong but from a bunch of things Mark and Sarah have said to me personally and have done, I suspect they were comparing things DO said in those tapes with things TI (and DO?) said when TI was still in her human vehicle. This is not a fabricated idea as I’ve said before.

A number of former students, among them, Rthody (Michael in docs), Andody (Frank in docs), Pmmody (Lee Ann in docs), Dncody, (Dick in docs), Cddody (Fred in docs), to varied degrees, along with academics like Professor Robert Balch (who infiltrated the group in 1975 to study them) and lately used more in docs, Professor Ben Zellar and others, all at one time have said to me privately and/or publicly, if I recall correctly, that after TI left her vehicle in 1985, DO changed the direction TI would have had the Class go, even not leading to “suicide” – laying down – leaving their human vehicles by their own hands.

Considering how Mark and/or Sarah were quoted to have said publicly after the Groups exit, in 1997, I think on the Art Bell show, that “the gate is closed” after DO had said in a press release that there was (paraphrased), a “brief window of time to exit with them” and because Mark and Sarah have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they don’t value DO’s instruction in the Letter DO sent to them that instructed them to (paraphrased)… “divide the items of value among those inclined to disseminate our information,” which should have included giving audio tapes to Crlody (Carlan) and myself (Swyody) (as well as Jhnody and others), especially considering we were fully engaged with sending people the 200+ audio tapes Rkkody had retrieved from Storage. The reason Mark told me he would not give me any audio tapes was because I would put them on the internet for anyone to have and that they were meant to be only used privately. Also in this interview Mark said something about their belief that TI would have exited sooner than DO did as if to say DO was off track in that way as well.

What Mark didn’t address from what Niklas stated was that DO never said there would be no “consciousness to survive” the recycling and that only those who transcended their humanness would survive but DO said that there were three groups of people who could survive the spading under of the garden and the last group didn’t have to know anything about TI and DO but that more is required of those who do know about TI and DO.

DO also didn’t say that staying behind to face the recycling would be suicide. It wasn’t a fact but a warning that the longer we are hear the more the lower forces can work on us to find reasons to stay but that while we are hear we can serve which is our choice. I don’t know what it means to say one must organize a “Next Level Collection.”

Also, I find the way Mark and Sarah and in this case Niklas talk about reincarnation seems to me to not jive with what DO said about reincarnation. Many humans think reincarnation is automatic after death. But I believe it can be shown that TI and DO taught that reincarnation is a choice when it’s referring to souls – a choice the Next Level helps Souls they want to return to choose the body they are going to work with when it’s time to do so when Older Members are coming incarnate. Spirits don’t really reincarnate because they are really just like leaches though one can choose not to be.

Niklas:

Mrcody believes these videos, along with the written material produced during the Group’s final years, primarily targeted the hundreds of former members across the country. Despite dropping out, often due to an inability to master their human urges, many remained Next Level devotees. Should Mrcody be right about this, it would explain one conundrum I’ve been grappling with regarding their last-minute recruitment run. My layman’s interpretation is that an individual must undergo an extensive Classroom setup – taught by Next Level tutors – to be eligible for graduation. And, as I’m sure Mrcody could attest to, this is unlikely to be attained in a mere few months.

23. Mark:

– Yes, it would be nearly impossible for the uninitiated to fully understand the ways of the Next Level within such a limited time frame. The Group indicated to us clearly that they were always going after former members. They wanted them to be part of the upcoming departure. There were never any indications of when this might occur, but they had to cast nets and former students were the easiest to catch. The only new individuals to bite were Lkkody and Dvvody, in September 1996. The Group were going to put them in our halfway house in Phoenix but decided to just accept them into the Rancho Santa Fe craft instead. Dvvody took to it, but Lkkody was out in weeks. Dvvody was indeed an exception – definitely ‘the last shall be first’.

23. Sawyer:

Nothing is impossible with the Next Level. I really dislike the way Mark talks here. “The Group was always GOING AFTER (my upper case) former members.” It’s not even accurate to say that way. I mean, sure TI and DO wanted to provide what they knew to former students but when DO had the video Jwnody and I made in 1992 put up on satellite dish, uploaded by Hughs aircraft that was with the idea of presenting the truth to Christians and I would say most of the former members were not among them.

There was little to no response so DO reconsidered and felt to make the Beyond Human Video Tape Series which we also uploaded to a Satellite TV channel. The address provided was TOA that went to a Post Office Box that kept on being forwarded to wherever we moved to after that. Most of the replies came from former students.

But next DO wrote the USA Today Info/Ad and that was put in that newspaper on May 27th, 1993 if I recall correctly and it too had a PO Box people could write to. From that we got quite a number of requests for more information from prisoners and others all over the U.S. who we began to correspond with. We had a number of partnerships assigned by DO to keep up with certain ones who wrote us. We sent some Beyond Human video tapes. We even attracted a homeless person who DO had meet with Alxody and myself in Flagstaff, AZ while we lived in Paradise Valley, AZ to see if he might fit into the Classroom. I spoke to DO on the phone and expressed that Alxody and I didn’t feel any reason to not bring him to the Classroom. He did join us and soon left because he couldn’t fit in. He chose the name, Ready so became Rddody. He was okay at first but soon thereafter he began to be critical of me and others and DO told him about his not being able to judge me (us) and so he couldn’t handle that criticism so left the Class.

Then when we put the new version of the USA Today Info/Ad into a bunch of New Agey Periodicals in New Zealand, Australia, England, Scotland, Canada and all over the U.S. we again received mail and exchanged letters and sent some Beyond Human video tapes to some. Again none were former students and DO felt from they would really need to be in the Class to progress and that wasn’t possible, shown also by Ready (Rddody).

Then that prompted DO and Crew to prepare to hold face to face meetings all over the U.S. which we started as a test case with Denver that Jwnody and I were speakers for and in Albuquerque where Chkody and perhaps Alxody were speakers. That seemed to be a positive so we prepared to live camping again and drove away on January 1, 1994 to hold meetings. From that 9 months we had added over 12 new members and only a few were former classmembers and at least one of them, Arrody when he realized in September of 1994 that we were talking about laying down our vehicles by our own hands, decided that wasn’t for him so left us.

Then when Dvvody and Lkkody who were married in the world and had 4 children together wanted to join and did, again these were not former students.

This terminology of throwing out a net to catch new members was hardly if ever used by TI and DO. Sure there is a parallel but that also can be a big turn off and it’s hard enough for people to see through the discarnate and space alien influences that want to keep people’s eyes shut to seeing who TI and DO are. Though I don’t mind that I was “caught” but what was really happening is that the vehicle was caught by the Soul with that vehicle and offered training like a Rancher going to the wild to catch some horses and then for those that accept the ranchers training they even become part of the ranchers family while the others are let to go wild again.

But I don’t think he is right by the evidence I just showed to say the former students were “easiest to catch”. Another point to this not being our mindset of catching people. At the Chicago meeting in 1994 that Evnody and I as overseers of one of the Groups were speakers at, we met with two in the audience that said they wanted to join us. When I told them how we were living and eating pretty much what we were given in donations, even fast food, they said they couldn’t do it because they were strict vegans. We at one point had been stricter vegans than most vegans but that wasn’t the program now so that was a strong indication that they would be too ridged to fit within the group so we turned them away.

We at that time nor thereafter don’t need to have new believers or followers. It’s simply our joy to see some responding that way but as soon as they choose to take some other path it’s like how fast can we help you leave because we have tasks to do for the Next Level and are interfered with by people who are on the fence.

In 1996 I’m not aware of who had been in Mark and Sarah’s “halfway house”. When I was there for several weeks there wasn’t anything half way about it, not at least as I saw it. But perhaps I didn’t know of someone in the class staying with them as a half way situation.

Niklas:

Matthew 20:16, ‘So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.’ On March 21, 1997 – the day before Hale-Bopp’s closest proximity to Earth – Mrcody and Srfody had a conference call with Do and the Class. The Group announced that plans had been made to take the leap, so to speak, and travel off-world. They had some requests regarding the management of their legacy.

24. Mark:

– They all thanked us profusely for what we had done and would do. It was a very kind and loving call. We had just received a parcel containing the latest version of their anthology and knew they wanted us, with the help of Oscody, to make sure it got published and submitted to the Library of Congress. We talked about that as well as the other work coming our way. However, we didn’t quite realize the full scope of our task until the FedEx boxes arrived the following Wednesday.

24. Sawyer:

First off, Simple error of no consequence – Mark and Sarah knew the group had told them they had exited in their Letter in the Fedx package they admitted to receiving on March 25th which was a Tuesday. So if they received a conference call from DO and The Class on March 21st, a Friday it wasn’t the following Wednesday when they knew the full scope of what their tasks were to be.

If what Niklas says here about the 21st call included The Class saying to Mark and Sarah that “plans had been made to take the leap” then when Mark and Sarah received the Fed X that following Tuesday, the 25th why didn’t they open it right away to read it’s contents and since Rkkody reported when he called Mark that same day on the 25th he was told by Mark that they hadn’t yet examined it closely, why didn’t Mark immediately report that news to Sarah at home. Rkkody called Sarah at home right after he hung up with Mark and said that Sarah didn’t believe him that the Class had exited. According to Rkkody when Mark got home that afternoon or night he shared the Fedx with Sarah.

I understand that Mark and Sarah could have thought the entire time they had had some association with the Group after they were sent out of the Group that the Group prepared a packet to be sent to the world should they exit. Mark and Sarah both knew that while TI was in her vehicle they did that every year as well. Apparently because they weren’t in the Class that whole time they didn’t know how series DO was about exiting at that time. Had they been in touch with Neody (Rio) after Rio left about two weeks before the Class left, he could have told Mark and Sarah how serious they were about exiting then, with the timing of the Hale Bopp Comets perihelion.

Mark reversed history in this statement regarding Oscody and the book instructions from DO and Crew regarding the registration of the book with the Library of Congress when that task was given to Oscody not to Mark and Sarah. He says, “We had just received a parcel containing the latest version of their anthology and knew they wanted us, with the help of Oscody, to make sure it got published and submitted to the Library of Congress.”

Here is the direct instruction Mark and Sarah received. On page two of one of the Letters they got from DO’s crew on March 25, 1997 by Fed X, (that the reason we have is because they gave those Letters to Rkkody on March 27, 1997, according to Rkkody and Crlody who learned this from Rkkody, to turn over all their tasks the Class gave them for Rkkody and Oscody to do, which was what DO’s Crew suggested if they couldn’t or didn’t want to do the tasks themselves as They hoped. It states:

“We also asked Oscody to register the Heaven’s Gate book with the Library of Congress and that if he needed any funds to accomplish this, that you would cover it out of the project funds that you have on hand.”

It was Oscody’s task. He was assigned to be the primary and all Mark and Sarah were instructed to do in that regard to the Library of Congress was to provide the funds for it if Oscody needed those funds.

As Mark often does as shown throughout this interview is twist things, probably not intentionally but probably forgetting what the instructions actually were. He also probably added himself into the task and may have even canoodled the task away from Oscody. My understanding from Crlody who learned it from Rkkody was that Oscody also received $10,000.00 from the Class for the Project.

Also what “project” were they talking about. In several other Letters to Mark and Sarah and to Rkkody and to Jhnody the Project is spelled out to be the Dissemination Project. And this is the project Mark and Sarah hid from starting and then when they wanted it back, expanded on it so that they began to think only they were given such project even though DO said they could include those on the list as some to work with initially at least but could include others in and DO didn’t name others so it was up to “others” who made their desire to share in the dissemination task known. Thus Mark and Sarah should have, like Rkkody shared with me the audio tapes at least since they were digitized so easy to share.

Niklas:

Starting March 22, employing the same teamwork efficiency with which they prospered both professionally and privately, the remaining thirty-nine members went to their human deaths in three shifts over three days. Those in line for evacuation ingested a lethal dose of an anti-seizure medication called phenobarbital and then potentiated it by downing some vodka. This would’ve been the first drop of alcohol many of the students consumed for over twenty years. Wearing identical uniforms, complete with the famous Heaven’s Gate Away Team patches and Nike shoes, they pulled plastic bags over their heads, secured them, and laid down to die. Upon expiry, Classmates from the next shift removed the bags and draped their corpses with purple shrouds. Do was part of the third and final wave, which was down to nine people. He left third to last, assisted by Lvvody and Jnnody – two women in their mid-forties, the former of which attended the Waldport meeting with Mrcody – who then covered him and followed suit. The next day, March 25, Mrcody and Srfody received a FedEx parcel containing a personal letter addressed to them, a press release, a list of the other recipients, account details for heavensgate.com, and various keys to cars and storage units complete with maps and directions. There were also two tapes containing ‘exit videos’, showing the departed members’ goodbyes. I’m trying to imagine what it must have been like to watch these heartfelt but visibly elated farewells from people they’d shared so much with.

25. Mark:

– The two videos were in SVHS format and could not be played on our home equipment, so we had to get them converted and then watched both in one sitting. We do not feel sorrow. We were happy they made it, but there was simultaneously the sense of having a big task ahead of us. It felt really special, and the humor we saw directed at us was very funny. Do and the Group loved laughter.

25. Sawyer:

I don’t know why that statement about humor was included in this interview.

For the record, Rkkody and Jhnody and as many as 4 others also received Fed X packages on March 25, 1997 from DO and Crew. In each of them as I understand it they received maps to be able to find them in the house, certain exit tapes and recycling tapes and Beyond Human Series tapes and in Rkkody and Jhnody’s case, at least, received the Anthology version one of Their Book with instructions.

Niklas:

Speaking of which, I’ve found the Heaven’s Gate material to contain some rather subtle and clever elements of humor Nothing whimsical, but more of a dry and poignant wit. Several remarks in Do’s tapes, as well as the ’88 Update, for example. Not to mention the Nike shoes; ‘Just Do it’. Jwnody – Mrcody’s old check-partner, the one who was pregnant when she joined the Group – closed her exit statement with a Star Trek reference: ‘Thirty-nine to beam up!’

26. Mark:

– We were laughing all the time. Their wit was priceless. The pocket contents of an ID, a five-dollar bill, and some coins was hilarious. Sending us non-durable power of attorney over everyone in the Group, knowing they terminated on death… could you imagine the reaction if someone had survived, and their families found out we held the legal authority? The account receivables from Higher Source, even though every single client would deny all affiliation. The Class knew we’d get the back of the hand from some former students, but our letter said, ‘You are about to inherit what’s left of our purser task, to do with as you choose.’ Our detractors never mention that sentence. Also, the ‘If you choose to accept this mission’ part is especially delicious. Their love of fun was wonderful.

26. Sawyer:

I have no problem with how they performed the Purser tasks they were given. My problem is with how to handle the Groups Intellectual Property – disseminate it freely without strings and they don’t like that unless they are doing it and they won’t do it so the information remains hidden for now over 20 years.

Even though we know that Members of the Class could make mistakes and DO didn’t necessarily examine and re-examine every purser choice, relying on his crew members to do the necessary research, as ultimately any mistakes made by Pursers weren’t going to affect their intention for their information to be disseminated to the world. But to read what Mark said here as:

“Sending us non-durable power of attorney over everyone in the Group, knowing they terminated on death… could you imagine the reaction if someone had survived, and their families found out we held the legal authority?”

To me when I read this it felt almost like a mockery of Pursers and ultimately AGAIN DO, the families had someone lived would have been outraged to find Mark and Sarah holding their rights. First off the Pursers said they were sending them “a comprehensive Power of Attorney”. The reason they were given power of attorney was described in their Purser letter:

“We are sending you a comprehensive Power of Attorney for anyone expecting a tax refund, or who has major items (cars, credit cards, insurance, rent, etc.) in their name. We don’t know if these will be accepted by those you deal with, or if you’ll have any reason to use them.”

I haven’t seen the documents so I don’t doubt that legally they were non-durable thus terminate upon the principals decease but if I were to guess about what happened in that case, I would say Pursers may have overlooked that a comprehensive power of Attorney, depending upon the language could be non-durable as they did wish for Mark and Sarah to have access to the funds they might get from tax refunds and assets in certain classmates legal names.

Yes, they stated in the Letters that they could do whatever they felt was right for them, but DO also had his Crew writing the letters state what DO and Crew’s desire was. Thus it became a matter of doing the task DO wanted them to do or doing it their own way. Mark and Sarah chose to ignore much of what DO’s desire was and instead do things their own way and that’s why so much got botched and that they are continuing to botch. DO’s desires are not complicated.

It’s sad that they talk about getting the back of the hand from some former students when they have been using a club against us hiding the audio tapes and not allowing us to make an audio Heaven’s gate book and not allowing anyone to support our own efforts of dissemination of Their Information by putting their images on T shirts and other places for sale. After all DO’s Crew said from the items of value retrieved from storage one could make some funds to support the project from them. They won’t even let us play part of an audio tape on my YouTube channel anymore. They allowed me to do it for over 15 years and now that I have more audios they are suing me for playing them and others.

Niklas:

What were the five-dollar bill and quarters in the Exit Team uniform pockets about?

27. Mark:

– According to the autopsy report, the individuals who departed had all sorts of change in their pockets. Some were found with pennies and dimes, others with only one quarter. When heading out to our OOC tasks each day, we brought along our state ID – usually a driver’s license – so that we could legally identify ourselves. We also took a five-dollar bill to cover the vagrancy fines in any state, plus one to three quarters to call the house if we were running late. Humans take these things for granted and never consider why they must have them to function in society. It was our way of not letting ourselves be tripped up by petty legal issues. To us, this ‘dispatch procedure’ was rather amusing since we knew it was a wink and a nod at former Classmates. Did they need to do this? No. Was it indicative of following basic procedures until the end? Yes. Was it an inside joke? Yes. Humans were confused about this because it was for us to joke about, not them. It was a lovable trait we appreciated greatly.

27. Sawyer:

I recall that initially we also were given a $5 bill and some change to use the $5 if our task out of the craft was delayed and we were missing an experiment (what we called a meal) to buy something to tide us over and/or to make a phone call as needed.

Mark doesn’t seem to consider that to DO and Crew it was possible TI could heal their vehicles and/or resurrect those vehicles and/or take the vehicles and even make a spectacle of it and send a Next Level Member on a task using that vehicle they would heal and/or use the clothing for Members of the Next Level to do a task on earth and not look like they were from the early 1900’s.

Also Mark Twain, in his movie Captain Stormfield’s Trip to Heaven, written in the first decade of the 1900’s states that the fare to ride the tail of a comet to Heaven was $5.75. I didn’t think all had that amount but got reports that a number did.

I don’t think it was that much of an “inside joke”, though yes it was humorous, but I think it also was making a statement that any who did the research would find out how much Mark Twain (Samuel Clemmons) was far ahead of his time.

I know I could be wrong about this and it’s not really anything I consider important to consider because I don’t recall DO or TI talking about the 1897 UFO crash that happened in Aurora, Texas. I began to wonder if this was a Next Level stimulated crash as it had one occupant in the report and wasn’t a human. I wondered if the Soul that was in that vehicle had a task to perhaps be like a John the Baptist to begin to prepare the U.S. for the upcoming return and even influencing Samuel Clemmons in his use of the Mark Twain character. Samuel was also a Mississippi River boat captain. The captains deck on such a boat was referred to as the Tejas (Texas) deck where the Captain resided. DO whose vehicle was from Texas where TI and DO both chose to incarnate into human vehicles prepared for them, talked about being like a Captain in Next Level rank where he talked about TI being like an Admiral, using Navy terms, again like the captain of a ship (Riverboat). The Mississippi River, TI and DO considered to be a type of dividing line on the U.S. “ship” to where west of the Mississippi River was where They felt most in touch with their Older Member (who would have been on a spacecraft somewhere in outer space (heavens) overseeing Their task. When TI and DO would travel east of the Mississippi River they felt that sense of being in contact with their Older Member diminish or even be absent. It’s of further interest that in…

Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

…there is the depiction of a “reed like unto a rod” used to “measure the temple of God”. In biblical interpretations, a River is a way of depicting many humans, even with seas referring to the sea of humanity. The Temple can be thought of in at least three ways. It’s the building where Humans worship God. DO said to worship really meant, “to work for”. Another meaning refers to the Souls inside of People who are making further application to graduate out of the human kingdom and into the Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human, aka Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven – the literal heavens (elevated areas above the earth where the planets and stars are).

It was interesting that Mark Twain was a river boat Captain and one of his tasks was to “measure the depth of the water” so his boat won’t run aground They used a long rod to measure the depth. This was the first verse in Chapter 11 of the Book of Revelation that went on to talk about the Two Witnesses and their both being “Christs” – anointed ones that Zechariah showed in prophecy of seeing TWO that he recounted he received from an “angel”.

So I began to think of the Western U.S. as the Temple area. TI and DO did venture east of the Mississippi to look for potential lost souls who hadn’t made their way west like most of those who became their students.

Next I began to examine the next verse in Revelation 11…

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

…which talks about The Court that is outside the Temple and not to measure it, hence very few meetings were held in the eastern portion of the U.S. during either the 1975-6 public meetings or the 1994 public meetings. However, DO didn’t follow prophecy so he had us still venture into those areas to be thorough and did find a few students there. In the 1990’s DO had the Crew begin to measure areas east of the Western U.S. relative to the two sides of the Mississippi River yet few attended those meetings.

When Cathy and I got together, Cathy being a relatively new believer in TI and DO was more on fire with the Information than I. After all there was a lot of tapes, etc. that I had heard and I was sort of in the mindset that most of what I would do to disseminate TI and DO’s information would be best done through the internet.

But now we were together and she wanted to see if we could set up meetings wherever so she set up a meeting in L.A. in November of 2021 and then of late in Savannah, Georgia on December 17, 2022. At the meeting in Savannah there was a sizable interest. Perhaps this is the time for the Court is most appropriate for meetings but I suspect it’s all over.

I am not of a mind that TI and DO and Crew did anything for one purpose alone. I doubt they did anything to be an inside joke for former Classmembers even though former Classmembers would be able to bring practical thinking to much that they did.

My book is full of these kinds of potential connections and I feel there are still more to be discovered.

Niklas:

On March 26, the day after the FedEx delivery, two former students named Rkkody and Oscody – both of whom had received letters of their own – flew to San Diego to retrieve vehicles and various Classroom materials. They picked up the Lincoln Continental waiting for them at the airport and then drove to the Group’s commercial storage space.

28. Mark:

– It was an opportunity for Rkkody to clear out the storage room. Oscody tried to get him to do it, but Rkkody was only interested in some audio tapes, his designated automobile, and the cash stored in it. Rkkody said his back was hurting, so he didn’t want to put the contents into the moving truck we’d assigned to him. They then went up to the mansion in Rancho Santa Fe at about 5:30 pm and were met by a large police presence. Rio, another former member, had made his way there first. Rkkody and Oscody left the area and drove to Phoenix.

28. Sawyer:

How come Mark doesn’t correct Niklas’ understanding of the timing when Rkkody and Oscody went to San Diego on the 26th. Maybe he still doesn’t know what Rkkody wrote in his manuscript. Rkkody knew nothing about the instructions Mark and Sarah received on March 25, 1997 in their Fed X packet that contained Letters from The Class. The evidence that Mark and/or Sarah had read at least the Letters addressed to them in the packet is because according to Rkkody, Mark and Sarah called him at least on the 25th and 26th wanting their address at this business that they agreed to provide to the Class to be taken off the website, as they knew Rkkody had the website access codes and know how to make changes. The Class talked about Rkkody doing that task in the Letter to Mark and Sarah. Mark and Sarah also said they planned to take their names and Rkkody’s name off the letter DO asked them to send to SAM, the owner of the house, after they had a “chance to get to the address” where their bodies were layed down to their death. That instruction about sending that letter was in their letter.

Here is the segment from the bottom of page 2 of the Letter addressed to MRC/SRF signed by The Class:

“URGENT Note: Please drop the letter in the mail addressed to our landlord, Sam, as soon as you feel comfortable that he will not get that letter before you have a chance to get to the address listed in the “Location” document.”

After all, Mark/Sarah knew Rkkody and Oscody went to San Diego on the morning of the 26th. It’s hard to imagine Mark/Sarah didn’t know before they left about the content of the Letters addressed to them since the instructions on handling that Letter to SAM was in the same letter as I just showed.

So it seems evident Mark and Sarah caused both Rkkody and Oscody a wasted trip to San Diego area.

Rkkody said he was on the phone with Mark/Sarah on that wasted trip as they were coming back. Mark just skips telling about how Rkkody and Oscody went back to San Diego area on March 27th 1997 after Mark/Sarah gave Rkkody most all their letters so on that second trip they did have most of the instructions and keys to get the cars with. But I don’t know how much opportunity Rkkody and Oscody had to study the contents of Mark/Sarah’s letters as for some reason they didn’t know about the Yellow Truck for that trip.

If Mark/Sarah had alerted Rkkody/Oscody to the need to get the truck, then they wouldn’t have only retrieved the Lincoln to have very limited space to haul away the full contents of storage that the Class didn’t want authorities to have.

Key points on the Timeline according to Rkkody’s manuscript:

March 25, 1997: Rkkody received two packets and read them and called Mark who was with Oscody. They hadn’t looked at the contents of their own packets completely by then, he wrote that he learned on that call. Rkkody slept on it.

March 26, 1997: Rkkody flew to Phoenix from Denver and he and Oscody drove to San Diego from Phoenix and got to San Diego area before the news had broke and got about 10 minutes away from the house at Rancho Sante Fe and heard on the radio that the bodies were discovered.

Rkkody doesn’t indicate at that time that he knew anything about the cars or the truck or the contents of Storage. It was the 27th when they learned of the cars and Storage instructions from Mark and Sarah when they turned over all their Letters to him.

So they flew back to Phoenix that same night and stayed at Oscody’s place there and Mark called Rkkody around 3am (Thursday the 27th) wanting Rkkody to make changes to the website to get their address off of it, though it was the address they gave to the Class to use.

Rkkody said he couldn’t do that at first because when he tried the server was down from all the hits the website took.

Then that morning of the 27th, they met with Mark and Sarah in a parking lot and Mark and Sarah gave him all the correspondence they received from DO and Crew, plus keys to some 7 cars/vans/trucks they had parked at the San Diego Airport and paid for and the codes to three storage lockers in two locations, San Diego and 2 in Escondido.

Then Rkkody and Oscody flew to San Diego, took a shuttle to the airport parking and took L car, the Lincoln that was instructed in the letters to go to Rkkody and they drove it to the storage in Escondido and opened the storage and it was full and they took 6-7 boxes of audio tapes out and put them in L car and went to the other storage unit in that complex and saw that it was mostly filled with camping equipment and household items. Then they went back to the airport parking area and got M Van slated for Oscody to have and put some of the audios in it and then Rkkody and Oscody drove back towards Phoenix. They stopped at a motel after driving for a couple of hours and slept and early the next morning of Friday the 28th drove the rest of the way to Phoenix.

I feel Mark is trying to muddy the waters here of what happened because they don’t want to admit they ran away from doing the task DO gave them to do.

The way Mark talks about this Rkkody and Oscody went to Storage before they went to Rancho Sante Fe. But that wasn’t possible as they didn’t know about the Storage locations nor units nor codes and also didn’t have the keys because Mark and Sarah who had all that information didn’t give it to Rkkody until the morning of the 27th. Their failure resulted in San Diego getting most of the contents of Storage.

Mark says, “Rkkody was only interested in some audio tapes…”, but what other “items of value” in that storage room were the most valuable items of value if not the audio tape library that he and Oscody only got 486 of? In Mark and Sarah’s letter Rkkody was designated to have the L Car and the Letter also said that he, Oscody and Mrc/Srf (Mark and Sarah) were getting money, so why not get it.

Why didn’t Mark and Sarah help with that retrieval of cars and as the Letter from DO’s Crew said, regarding the Storage “any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information” task? They did nothing though DO made them the primary on those tasks. It seems quite apparent they were too scared to do anything so they turned over the task to Rkkody and Oscody just like Rkkody reported in his manuscript and told Carlan happened. Mark conveniently doesn’t ever talk about those clear instructions from DO in the Letter.

Some might say that Mark and Sarah gave Rkkody and Oscody their Letters because that was the best way to give them the exact addresses to the storage units and the pass codes to the various storage units. Fair enough, but then why include the Letter that the Class sent to them addressed to Chris and Holly? And why give Rkkody the Letter from Purser re: the Higher Source company accounts receivables showing how much money they were owed and by whom. That Letter also listed Postal Boxes the group had, included Power of Attorneys/ID’s for them all, two Bank Accounts, one for Higher Source and one for Telah Services. It included Voicemails and even Phone Cards with money still on them and instructions that they shouldn’t have any bills to pay and expressing why they didn’t think they needed to cancel registrations and insurance for the cars because they figured they’d be sold or re-registered anyway. That Letter also indicated they had made arrangements to get them some funds that they were also sending to Oscody and Rkkody. They also got a Letter that said who else was receiving a similar letter and one of those was Rkkody so why give him anything but the information to get the cars they were given the task to be the primaries to retrieve from the airport in San Diego where they were prepaid for parking.

Rkkody wasn’t even sent all this information about the cars as they were and wasn’t told about the Storage Room because Rkkody wasn’t to be a primary on the task. Mark and Sarah surely knew that if they were given the instructions, they were the primaries on the task and that the suggestions to use Rkkody and Oscody and others as needed that was in their Letter was their choice to include as Secondaries on the task. Sure they were given the choice to not be primaries and to do whatever they felt right about but if they wanted to serve exactly according to DO’s hopes, they would have gone to storage. They even told Cathy and I in person that they did go to storage and the lock had already been put on the doors but according to Rkkody only Oscody went to Storage for the second and last time, who reported that to Rkkody and certainly to Mark and Sarah. They told Cathy and I they didn’t go to storage the first time because they had to go to San Diego to ID the bodies, but we learn hear they only sent a document to San Diego authorities to help them ID the bodies. They knew this looked bad for their version of the story and that it gives more credence to Rkkody’s version of the story that he wrote in his manuscript about that time that his daughter had and Carlan was given by her and that he just recently shared with me.

After all if Rkkody’s account of Mark and Sarah turning over their own Letters they received, with the keys to the cars parked in the airport in San Diego didn’t happen, and the truck in storage, then how did Rkkody get the keys and Letters. And why did certain Letters have the names blacked out when they were clearly meant for Mark and Sarah.

DO knew this might happen, I bet, which is why he gave Mark and Sarah the out of doing things their way. DO knew that Mark had demonstrated over years of not following certain procedures if they didn’t make sense to him. (See audio tape 37 where DO gives him several lessons in this regard and audio tape 204 where DO refers to having to “mute” Mrcody because he had become too much of a wagon master which was never procedure. And yet that’s exactly what they became surrounding the Intellectual property of Heaven’s Gate that they gained access to. Mark tried to lure me into his fold in the early 2000’s I think it was. He told me if I came to his area he would show me the proof that he and Sarah were to control all their Intellectual Property. I wanted nothing to do with his “group” he believed himself with Sarah to be the leaders of. I knew that DO’s intention (and TI’s) was for every believer to participate in disseminating Their Teachings to others. I’m not saying I wouldn’t have liked to work with the others that were still alive, like Flxody and Ablody and Pypody and even Jhnody and others that ended up gathering in Arkansas, but the task of disseminating wasn’t that complicated as they were making it into. Just do the task. Step out into the street or put up one’s shingle on the internet and share exactly what TI and DO said with others. By that time I was doing just that and only wanted him to stop hording the audio tapes so I could send them to people who were asking and deserved to receive them.

Mark said, “Rkkody said his back was hurting, so he didn’t want to put the contents into the moving truck we’d assigned to him.” We refers to he and Sarah.

This is another of Marks skewing the truth to make himself look like he was in charge. The assignment to the truck came from DO and Crew in the Letter to MRC/SRF (Mark and Sarah), the same letter Mark and Sarah gave to Rkkody because they apparently didn’t want to do the tasks DO gave them.

In the Letter it said, “We also have a 20 foot yellow truck in a separate storage unit and we did think that RKK would be a good choice to retrieve it. It’s big enough to be able to haul all of what’s in storage, we believe. The truck storage paperwork is also enclosed.”

Furthermore Rkkody received in one of his two Fed X packets from DO on March 25th 1997 “receipts and insurance forms for the old Ryder truck the class had bought a couple years ago in Texas”

Like I already said, I believe Rkkody’s account which says he and Oscody never got to the mansion. They were about 10 minutes away when they heard the story on the news so they turned around and went back to Phoenix.

I have no idea who told Mark that Rkkody didn’t get the contents of storage because his back hurt. Who else could have told them that, Oscody? I could see Rkkody opening the door to that large storage unit and seeing it filled to the top with boxes, saying something about his back, but did that mean he wouldn’t have found a way to tackle the task. The fact was according to his account that he didn’t have the truck with him at the storage unit at that time.

It appeared at that time that all Mark and Sarah cared about was getting rid of their names on the letter to SAM and taking off their mailing address on the Heaven’s Gate web site and hiding from the responsibility DO offered to them by turning over all the tasks to Rkkody via the Letters we have from DO to them because that’s how Rkkody got their letters in the first place.

For the record, Mark almost always puts Rkkody down as he does to me, Carlan and even Cathy and to date Juan (Jhnody) and he so often either has a very selective memory or just remembers little or manipulates the language to make him and Sarah look like they have no faults in anything that happened then or happens now. They are supreme finger pointers and yet they think we, Carlan and I are finger pointing at them except there is one huge different. We can prove using his own words that he and Sarah are either often sloppy in their recounting or leaving out crucial details or have contradicted what they even have said or are outright lying or only giving partial truths while taking no responsibility This interview by now I’ve shown to be full of these kinds of statements that even go against TI and DO wishes and Minds.

It’s very sad and I wish I didn’t have to be on their case but they are the instigators of hatred and negativity keeping TI and DO’s audio tapes away from people galore over 24 years while saying they want to share them with people. We have all this on record, expressed by them.

I believe Rkkody’s account 99% of the time more than Mark and Sarah’s accounts and I have multiple witnesses on this score. There is Carlan who worked with Rkkody at that time soon after the group left and Rkkody told him many things and Carlan witnessed many things coming out of the mouth of Mark and Sarah and the inclusion of lies and forms of deceit. There is Rkkody’s daughter who may not even believe in TI and DO but was sued by Mark and Sarah, who threatened to take away her house (as she wrote to me about in 1998, and Rkkody talked to me about in 1998 before he exited his vehicle). There is to date Cathy who was witness to emails from Mark about me before she knew me in person. And there is Jhnody (Juan) who saw through how Mark and Sarah had tried to keep people from sharing TI and DO’s book with others and the many audio tapes and how they have tried to issue strikes against me on YouTube for my fair use of the audio tapes Rkkody had sent me in 1997 and that Jhnody sent me in 2021. I won with YouTube became my channel, 3spm wasn’t monetized ever.

Speaking of Mark and Sarah instigating strikes against me on my YouTube channel: 3spm. They issued one against my reading TI’s only official document entitled, “The Power of Goodness”. Plus Cathy and I were reading aloud on the 3spm channel the Heaven’s Gate Book and they were against our doing that too. It’s even one of the seven counts against Cathy and I in their lawsuit against us. We wanted people to be able to turn the tapes on in the car or at work to listen to or for the blind to listen to. But they told us they need to be the controllers to oversee everything and though I have no problem with looking to overseers on tasks, they were not my overseer of anything as even though they were given tasks by DO doesn’t mean they are performing those tasks as DO hoped.

Rkkody has a lot to say in his manuscript and he had zero reason to lie, while Mark and Sarah have so much dirty laundry over the years from before and after the group left that they don’t even seem to know how far afield they have gone against TI and DO’s true wishes as expressed in the Letters, for the little tasks they were given that they may by now be hanging themselves in the stand they have been taking against them while making their teachings some saccharine pseudo spiritual religion.

Niklas:

Did you have any idea what awaited them in the mansion?

29. Mark:

– None of us knew the details of how the Class would exit, but we pieced it together soon enough. We were with our attorney group in downtown Phoenix and told them it was going to happen at any time. One of their assistants burst into the conference room and said, ‘Turn on CNN, now!’ Via our legal counsel, we assisted the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department throughout the evening. We sent them a chart of the expired so that they could be identified quickly. We supplied all the relevant information.

29. Sawyer:

The first day the news broke was March 26, 1997 so that must have been the day they were meeting with their “attorney group” when what Mark said happened. Why were they meeting with their attorney group on the day the news broke. They only learned they had exited from the March 25th 1997 Fedx packet or did they arrange to talk to attorneys after the group called them on March 21st to say they had made plans to “take the leap”? Does that mean they were meeting with attorneys to see if they would be liable in some way if the group really had exited as it indicated in their March 25th packet they did? Isn’t that a bit risky. How did Mark and Sarah know the Group wouldn’t have changed their mind and put off their exit for days or weeks, months or years yet they were telling attorneys “it was going to happen at any time”. Doesn’t that show specific foreknowledge. Wasn’t that information meant to be between DO and Crew and Mark and Sarah. But telling an attorney group would have meant they would tell so many people that could have easily led to the police getting involved to try to stop them which would have been a major security breach of the Classes privacy to do.

I knew the details of how the Class was planning to exit. Of course since I left in 1994, DO could have changed the plan from what he told us but as it turned out it was almost exactly the same plan DO talked to all the class about in September of 1994 in a warehouse meeting in San Clemente, CA. I didn’t know when and didn’t know if they would follow through because we talked about many things we didn’t do. But Mark and Sarah weren’t privy to that information because they weren’t in the Class then nor at any time until they exited, so there was just so much they would be told about.

Cathy and I are witness to Mark and Sarah saying they got their last Fed X packet from the Group on March 25, 1997, the same date Rkkody, Oscody and Rio and I suppose others received theirs. (Not sure when exactly Jhnody received his in Venezuela but it was very close to that day).

Rkkody says in his manuscript that he got his on March 25th 1997 and same day he called Mark and Oscody was with him and had received a packet they “hadn’t looked over closely” yet but then a while later that day Rkkody spoke to Mrc/Srf after they had examined their content of their packets because they talked about the letter the Class included in Mrc/Srf’s packet they gave them instructions to send to SAM, the owner of the Rancho Sante Fe house. It was Mrc/Srf’s first concern that on that letter were their names and Rkkody’s name. Rkkody said they were all afraid to have authorities having their names. So Rkkody said to Mark/Sarah to do what they felt was right and he understood that they got rid of all three of their names on the letter and then sent it to SAM after the bodies were found (which was March 26th 1997).

Cathy and I asked Mark and Sarah face to face at their lawyers office in Phoenix in November of 2021 whether they knew the Group planned to exit their vehicles and they told us they didn’t have any foreknowledge but what Mark is saying here is that they did have foreknowledge on the 21st unless Niklas got that wrong but if so then why didn’t Mark correct him in his reply to that question/comment?

Niklas:

Given Mrcody and Srfody’s security-mindedness, it must have been a somewhat disconcerting realization that the street address of their livelihood was listed on the Heaven’s Gate website – upon which the entire world’s attention now rested. I read many contemporary news stories stating that reporters had reached out to the owners for a comment about their affiliation with TELAH Services.

30. Mark:

– We knew this would be difficult to handle. When the full pressure of the global press and legal entities is applied, you must be quick on your feet. We stayed away from direct questions and told the reporters that TELAH were box-holders at our business. We were careful with what we did and where we went. Some of our employees wondered what was going on, but we instructed them to remain quiet and only take messages. It quieted down in a few days and passed entirely within a reasonable amount of time.

30. Sawyer:

So it seems their fears at first were unfounded. They could have trusted DO’s using their address for the Heavensgate.com website. They could have trusted that when DO included their names on the letter DO asked them to send to SAM, the owner of the Rancho Sante Fe house. They could have trusted that if they acted quickly they could have communicated with others who received Fed X packets and letters to all go to the Airport in San Diego, retrieve the cars left there for them as described in one of the Letters to them from the Group in their packet, and retrieve the Truck from storage the Group thought Rkkody could retrieve and then could have all gone to the two main storage rooms and unloaded their contents into the Yellow truck and then they never would have had a problem with San Diego county confiscating the storage contents. So quick on their feet as Mark brags was slow and really complicated getting the items of value from storage out of San Diego’s hands.

According to Rkkody they were hiding out and wouldn’t even talk to Rkkody on the phone out of fear they were being tapped or something. Rkkody said he was trying to check with them about things but they made it hard to do. Rkkody said they and Oscody had some kind of code to use to get in touch. I don’t think any of that was wrong to do but they way they say so little about what actually happened and how fearful they were is another of the many subjects they skirt around and seek to hide from the public view. It’s a big problem when someone thinks so much of themselves that they can’t stand to recognize and admit their mistakes that we all make. But then their mistakes are being used to date to sue me for doing what DO wanted all of us to do – participate in the Dissemination Project.

Niklas:

Several of the letters to former students stated, ‘We want you to feel free to exercise any available options with whatever timing feels right for your own next step’. As did Srfody and Mrcody’s – but with the added phrase ‘No doors are closed to you’. I’m unsure whether this was an invitation or a humorous reference to all the keys included.

31. Mark:

– We knew this had two meanings – from departing after them to taking the steps necessary to protect and carry out our tasks. We’d been left with the lion’s share of their work and legacy. Some former Classmates had specific assignments which could be completed in days, whereas we have tasks for the remainder of our lives.

31. Sawyer:

The entire paragraph from DO and Crews Letter signed by The Class reads:

“Also we want to make it clear that we’re certainly not asking you to do these tasks if, after receiving this information, circumstances make it too difficult or other options seem more appropriate for you. We want you to feel free to exercise any available options with whatever timing feels right for your own next step. No doors are closed to you.”

Having read the other two pages of this Letter, The Class certainly expressed their desires, what they hoped Mark and Sarah would do, from working together with some of the following: OSC, RKK, JHN, FLX/ABL and NEO (Rio) and even potentially Soeren could be “included in events that transpire to whatever degree feels right. It was clear that those on the list just listed would also be potentially included “would be most helpful to you” then suggesting RKK and OSC as “would likely be a big help” but “including others would be OK as well, whatever your strategy permits.”

They said, “We put into storage items that we would prefer the authorities not have access to.” They said they could “do with those items whatever feels right to you.”

They said “We also have a 20 foot yellow truck in a separate storage unit, and we did think that RKK would be a good choice to retrieve it – it’s big enough to haul all of what’s in storage, we believe.”

They said in the Letter from The Class re: the disposition of the cars and vans and a truck:

“The large yellow moving truck can be found at our storage place (the accessing and disposing of storage items are covered in another note to you). Again, perhaps you could get some help from RKK or OSC in handling the truck and storage.”

They said they enclosed in the packet another document that “further covers the disposition of our cars and this truck.”

Then they said, “It is our desire that any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information.”

And added, “Any of the funds you retrieve can be used towards that end and for the living expenses of those involving themselves with this project.”

It seems they were referring to the funds that were in at least one car that they wanted RKK to retrieve but I guess that could include any funds that came from some of the items of value in Storage that included Away Team patches, video tapes, audio tapes, etc.

Then they said after they described working with the Romanian ISP with the website off shore in case authorities wouldn’t allow the Heaven’s Gate site to remain up and they talked about some BBC contacts working out of the CBC office in New York who had expressed to them interest in their story before they left, they went on to say:

“Of course, this is contingent upon whether or not you should choose to say anything to the media on our behalf. We would hope that the public would have an opportunity for more thorough knowledge of who we are and what we’re about.”

Then in the letter to MRC/SRF from The Classes Pursers they said, “You are about to inherit what’s left of our purser task, to do with as you choose.”

They state what they would choose writing:

“We are arranging to get some funds to all of you (RKK, OSC & MRC/SRF) from what we have on hand, but we know that there is no way we can pay you for whatever efforts you may or may not choose to contribute in collecting our loose ends and (my upper case) DISSEMINATING INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED HERE.”

Then in the same letter under the heading, “Funds Which May Come In After We Leave,” they write, “We don’t know if you’ll actually be able to get any of these funds, but if it is possible, we’d like these funds to BE AVAILABLE TO THOSE WHO STILL SUPPORT THE CLASS AND WANT TO HELP GET OUR INFORMATION OUT.” (my capitalization)

If they wanted funds to be available to those who still support the class and want to help get our information out, wouldn’t they want those same people to have that information they wanted to get out to the world? I am one of them. Cathy is one of them. Carlan is one of them. Jhnody who was on the list is one of them. There are other new believers who have that same desire. The Class, nor DO ever said anything that can be taken as a limitation of who could “get their information out”. It’s even reiterated in Jwnody’s document, “Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure” that “getting the information out” was a task all returned Souls would receive and that included Souls that DO and the Class never got a chance to meet before they exited their vehicles.

“We are hoping that you will solicit help from Oscar (OSCODY), RKK, FLX/ABL, and others as you need it.”

Would “others” be limited to only the names mentioned? There is ample evidence that they were open to anyone helping with the “dissemination project”.

In other words these were the primary tasks they were given and they didn’t really do any of them and yet when I did these tasks they acted as if I didn’t have a task from the Next Level to do them and were even going against them. They clearly preferred they do these tasks but it was always their way for the 19 years I was in observance that they always gave us an out so it would always be our free will to exercise and that’s the part of the Letters they cite that they use to back up that they are doing the tasks DO gave to them and those options they have chosen actually go against what The Classes desires and wishes and hopes were.

Sure Mark and Sarah put up the website and supported it all these years but it went to their heads that only they could do that. If only they were to do that why did Rkkody and Oscody and Jhnody receive the code for the websites on diskettes as they stated in Letters (but didn’t reveal they had sent to Jhnody, so that may have come to them as a surprise when I included documentation that Jhnody had the website and masters of the Beyond Human Video series and Books in his Packages from DO and Crew. Perhaps that came by surprise when I presented to the court as part of my defense against Mark and Sarah’s lawsuit against me, that evidence that others were also given the same dissemination task.

Mark and Sarah also did publish the Book but in doing so changed the copyright DO and Crew had included for the Book eliminating the encouragement to copy parts of the book or in it’s entirety as long as didn’t add or take away from those parts and not do so for commercial purposes. They could have included both that common law copyright notification and the copyright to the TELAH Foundation they created after the Class left.

They also did a token sending out of video tapes and a tiny few audio tapes, except for doing the right thing and sending Jhnody some 80 audio cassettes with instructions to store them only. When he defied that order they freaked on him.

Even when they sent someone audio tapes 1 to 4 (probably at most which Cathy got) they stipulated that they were only for her personal use. DO never gave those kinds of limitations.

So my points here are to show that Mark and Sarah chose to do most everything their own way and that way ended up being in contradiction to the desires expressed over and over and over by DO and His Class and they seem to be blind to seeing this reality which is very sad.

And why is it that Mark includes this word “protect” as something “necessary” for him/them to do. Of course one would protect the “items of value” the Class wanted them to retrieve from Storage. Why wasn’t getting those “items of value” from Storage the first priority of tasks they were given which would automatically “protect” them from harm and keep them out of the governments hands. But instead they demanded Rkkody turn over to them the 200+ tapes he got from Storage while Oscody already had the remainder of what they got from Storage, over another 286 for a total of 486. Rkkody finally gave into them, knowing they were given the primary task to divide up those items of value but Rkkody was covering his bets, not knowing what Mark and Sarah would or would not do with the audio tapes, so he copied them and began to digitize and disseminate them as DO wished. I’m harping on this word because Mark and Sarah have harped on this word. In the Cease and Desist document they sprang on us at our in person meeting in November of 2021 at their lawyers office it talked about how they were guided to “protect” the information. They sent audio tapes to Jhnody for safe keeping in Venezuela. That’s all fine and well but what about protecting the information by putting it in thousands of hands who want it while also protecting it in other ways? One of the answers to that question I would propose was because if they felt their task was to protect it’s far less stressful than disseminating as there is no real interface needed to arrange ways to protect the information.

This is one of the points Mark and Sarah got very wrong. They weren’t left with the Groups “legacy” – They were given the task to disseminate that legacy of information to anyone that wanted to do the task of that dissemination. Mark and Sarah turned it into their own “kingdom” so that only they would be the disseminators and they alone would dictate who could receive what of that information left behind by TI and DO and Crew.

Interesting that Mark leaves out how he knew DO’s intention was that all their intellectual property be disseminated to those who would want it to learn about what the Class was all about. He and Sarah even showed evidence in a letter to Rkkody that they intended to disseminate that information at that time. But somehow when it came to the audio tapes, they did send some to Flxody/Ablody (Mark said, but don’t know how many) and sent 80 audio tape cassettes to Jhnody (Juan), aka Francisco. But they insisted on getting the audio tapes Rkkody retrieved from storage. Rkkody copied some 218 tapes and began to digitize them and then eventually did give the masters back to Mark and Sarah. That was a very smart move because all but that 218 tapes were never released to the public except some of them in very isolated circumstances and very cumbersome ways and they would stimulate that they were only to be for personal use when DO wanted them to be given to all those who were inclined to disseminate their information. Mark and Sarah did the very opposite of DO’s instructions.

Now their lives are being occupied with keeping TI and DO’s information away from people. Their fears are unfounded. Again, they could have trusted DO.

Mark and Sarah never have recognized that they could be wrong about the entire way they have been handling TI and DO’s information. That’s why they were instructed to leave the Group and yet they blame their leaving on Classmates somehow conning DO to send them away as if DO was weak and would ever allow Class members to influence him (much or temporarily) from what he knew TI would have him do.

Niklas:

The Heaven’s Gate website offers German translations of the two Recycling tapes from 1996. Coincidentally, Rkkody‘s letter from the Class includes a remark about a potential seeker from Germany – ‘Oscody is in contact with this individual and has offered housing for him at the Phoenix satellite.’

32. Mark:

– There was never any satellite in Phoenix other than what the Group set up with us in May 1996. The German’s name was Sören. He never made it to the United States; Oscody told us he’d offered to do some translations but lost interest after the incident.

32. Sawyer:

Perhaps Mark and Sarah didn’t know that DO and Crew, in Rkkody’s letter referred to Oscody’s apartment as the “Phoenix Satellite” where Soren from Germany could stay if he came here where he could also be given a car to use. Also Mark doesn’t know I guess that Soren did make it to the U.S. not too many years ago and met with Crlody (Carlan) and went back. He often used the name Nathaniel of late.

In one of the Letters to Mark and Sarah, Soren was mentioned as someone Oscody had offered to help with housing which would have made that location a Phoenix Satellite.

Niklas:

After arriving in Phoenix, Rkkody drove to Denver in the Lincoln Continental. On March 29, Oscody returned to San Diego to continue the storage room clearance. After collecting the Group’s Mazda MPV minivan from the airport, he found that an external party had placed a padlock on the door. An employee of the storage company had recognized Dstody – one of the departed – from a news report and then alerted law enforcement.

33. Mark:

– Rkkody updated the website as instructed but failed at everything else we asked him to do. He was unable to accomplish the task the Group had given him and then proceeded to go his own way. This refusal of his lost us the storage contents. It took us two years of fighting the San Diego County property system and cost us a lot of money in legal fees to get it all back.

33. Sawyer:

What a hell of a spin Mark is putting on what really happened that we have lots of evidence of. Rkkody was the hero in this though may have made some mistakes as he suggests in his manuscript but the mistakes Mark and Sarah made are huge in comparison.

For instances, when Mark and Sarah finally sat down to read the Letters they were sent, they could have told Rkkody when Rkkody called him the same day on the 25th what instructions they received and especially how DO’s Classmembers had mentioned using Rkkody. They could have immediately planned to all go to the airport to get the cars and to the storage near San Diego to get the contents of two storage rooms. But they said nothing so Rkkody didn’t know all of what he should have been told about until the morning of the 27th when Mark and Sarah turned over all their tasks DO hoped they would do, to Rkkody.

So when Rkkody and Oscody drove to San Diego area on March 26th 1997 to go to the house they could have gone having the instructions in hand with the Storage directions and codes and keys to cars and the truck to use to load up the contents of the two storage rooms as they Group had spelled out was their desire. But Mark and Sarah either didn’t read their letters or they just were frozen by influences from taking any actions hardly at all except to try to protect their own privacy that wasn’t even really in danger as they did nothing wrong.

For instance when Mark and Sarah met with Rkkody and Oscody in a parking lot in Phoenix on March 27, 1997 at about 7 AM according to Rkkody’s manuscript, they weren’t instructing Rkkody and Oscody to do anything.

This statement is a complete fabrication to remove all of their responsibility from what transpired and point it to Rkkody who isn’t here to defend himself and yet left us with a great detailed account of all he did upon getting his packets from the Group and seeking to coordinate with Mark and Sarah when they were hiding from doing anything. They caused Rkkody and Oscody to waste time and they are the prime reason they lost the contents of storage.

Mark and Sarah turned over letters they got from the Class that included the letter from pursers on how to handle PO Boxes and the cars and the truck to be used for storage. The Letters are very clear that Mark and Sarah were given the task to work with the others on the list and others wasn’t limited to those on the list to participate in the “dissemination”…”Project”. Sure DO indicated they could do the task as they saw fit and even not do it at all, but if they chose to do it then the task was outlined well by DO and Crew to retrieve all the items from storage and divide them among those who wanted to disseminate them and even do the same with any funds from the sale of some of the items to support that project.

Notice Mark and Sarah didn’t take any of the blame for what happened to where the lock was put on storage before all the items of value could be retrieved.

Mark and Sarah told us to our faces (Cathy and I) that they went to storage and the locks were already on them from the authorities. Mark admits Rkkody went to storage. If Mark and Sarah were giving Rkkody and Oscody the Storage retrieval task, why didn’t they agree on getting the truck first. Why didn’t they share with Rkkody all the instructions in the letters. I’m not saying Rkkody and Oscody bore no responsibility in how it all was handled and I’m not pretending I would have done a better job. They were under a lot of stress. Rkkody gives evidence of how paranoid Mark and Sarah and Oscody were that is very believable.

All the while Mark makes it sound like Rkkody botched it all up. This is very telling of exactly why Mark was sent out of the Class. Yes, the “I could be wrong” lesson step was not one he wanted to follow because he had come to trust his own mind over his Older Members Mind. From the time he and Sarah were instructed to leave the Class in 1987, they began to cease looking to DO’s Mind less and less according to DO in audio tapes from that period and instead looked to one another’s Mind. This isn’t from my Mind to say this. We have over 12 clips from audio tapes with DO talking about it even more directly than I am.

Plus we have in this interview a number of times Mark blames Classmates and DO for wronging sending him out of the Class as if he takes no responsibility for wanting to leave and not return. This article shows how braggadocios they have become. I can reveal a number of emails between he and I over years that shows how he thinks he’s the boss over everyone. That’s exactly what he was showing TI and DO and Class members even in 1982, the reason he was “muted” by TI and DO from running the show. The Next Level has no trail bosses (wagon masters). They operate in crews. There can be Primaries and Secondaries on tasks but others on the crew are also responsible to pull on how their Older Members would handle things and how to follow procedures. Without learning to follow procedures we are worthless to the Next Level Older Members as they will have to waste time correcting things we botch up because we don’t follow procedures. TI and DO talk about this extensively in audio tape 37 with Mark getting the brunt of the lesson. I suspect he almost always had a low opinion about Rkkody and yet DO said in some of the same audios where he talked about Mrcody/Srfody that Rkkody with his shortcomings was “in much better shape” than Mrc/Srf because he wanted to look to his Older Member’s Mind.

This is all further brought home by the fact that Mark and Sarah are suing me, and Cathy and Carlan (Crlody) for doing exactly what TI and DO have made it very, very clear by dozens of examples they wanted to see and expected to happen after they left – their audio tapes combed over by many people.

Could it be coincidence that Mark and Sarah are not spoken of highly by DO in a number of the audio tapes as the main reason they want us to stop playing them on my youtube.com live-stream? I asked Mark this very question and he denied it and then reprimanded me for even “wondering” about it as if it would be out of the question. Could it be that Influences have blinded him to this and other reasons they want to hide TI and DO’s information.

Niklas:

In early April 1997, Mars Media – the company hosting the Heaven’s Gate website – discovered that someone had hijacked the domain name and taken the site down.

34. Mark:

– Chris Milus of Mars Media always tried to help us and was as kind as he could be under the circumstances. Unfortunately, Rkkody had allowed someone to steal the URL and take the site offline. It had been down for days at that point, and this stretched into months. It was another case of Rkkody keeping the website away from the public through all of 1997, contrary to the instructions left by Do and the Class. It’s been alleged that the original website came back up in August 1997, but we’ve seen no indication of that.

34. Sawyer:

Mark says, “Unfortunately, Rkkody had allowed someone to steal the URL and take the site offline.”

In Rkkody’s manuscript, in Chapter 5 on page 17 he describes driving down to Phoenix from Flagstaff to meet with Mark and Sarah and Oscar (Oscody) after having met with another former student named Pypody, who by the way is still alive and I’ve been in touch with.

Rkkody writes, “During the drive down I got a call from Holly who was running the Internet site where Heaven’s Gate was hosted. Apparently, someone had re-directed the domain name to a non-existing address effectively confiscating our web site.”

So how can Mark blame Rkkody for allowing someone to “steal” the site? Even without Rkkody’s testimony through his book manuscript, what could he have done to cause the site to go down? He had no interest in the site going down. He didn’t build the site, the Class techs did. If I were a sleuth, to me Mark and Sarah did have interest in the site going down as they still had their address posted there and according to Rkkody’s manuscript still were stressing about it though most of the media had died down by this time. However, I don’t believe Mark and Sarah were behind the site going down either.

Why would Rkkody make this up. We have the letter from the Class to Rkkody that shows he was to be what amounts to be the primary on web site maintenance Rkkody reports that, “The group had about three different sites. Http:www.heavensgate.com, http:www.heavensgatetoo.com, and http:www.levelabovehuman.com and a site in Romania that was just being set up that we still do not have access to.”

Again, as we’ve now seen probably a dozen times, Mark exaggerates and makes statements of fact using inflammatory terms, like in this case, “steal” the site when there was nothing of the sort happening.

According to Rkkody’s manuscript, Holly and Chris said the site address was changed to a non working address so went dark and that there had been so much traffic that the server couldn’t handle it and they were installing another server to cover the load. Rkkody flew to Nashville and met with them personally over this.

After all it’s not like I haven’t seen this over and over and over. Like in the lawsuit Mark and Sarah claim I “stole” the audio tapes when they were gifted to me by Rkkody in 1997 and 1998 and then a bigger batch were gifted to me by Jhnody in 2021, which were gifted to Jhnody by Mark and Sarah over about a years time of sending him digitized versions. And the gifts from Rkkody were the digitized tapes he retrieved from Storage that DO and Crew wrote a letter to Mark and Sarah suggesting Rkkody and Oscody help with doing. So how in the world were they stolen by me. No one owned any of them. The Class left them as a gift to the world that Mark and Sarah were supposed to divide among those who were inclined to disseminate them to others. In a real sense they then stole them and used government to authenticate their theft by buying them off to get Consent Decrees. Mark and Sarah seem to care only about what the government says is right to do with the audios than what TI and DO and Crew intended.

As I’ve described before in this response to Mark’s interview but will repeat a number of times, the reason Rkkody had Mark and Sarah’s letters was because Mark and Sarah turned them over to Rkkody on March 27th morning before Rkkody and Oscody went to storage in San Diego. It’s just a sore point with me that Mark throws around that term. It seems like he’s trying to make Rkkody seem negligent and wants to make me look like a criminal because I accepted the gifts, which by the way I personally was in the Class to hear most of them and my voice and name can be heard in many of them to prove. It’s like trying to steal my family’s legacy.

Mark goes on to say here, “It was another case of Rkkody keeping the website away from the public through all of 1997, contrary to the instructions left by Do and the Class.”

This is pure misinformation. He may be putting this out on purpose, I don’t know but wouldn’t put it past him at this point given all the things he and his lawyers have done to Rkkody, Rkkody’s daughter, Crlody and now me and Cathy. Rkkody was front and center on all the tasks. When he called Chris and Holly on the morning of March 27th it was to change the address Mark and Sarah had called him about doing at about 3am that morning and that is when he found out that the site was down because of too much traffic to the site and that they were putting another server up to maintain the new traffic load.

Soon thereafter Rkkody put up one of the alternate sites to include Right to Know website that was purely packed with information that Rkkody had received directly from DO in addition to being sent the Book’s first edition and the website code and had retrieved the audio tapes from Storage and was duplicating the exit tapes to send to people. Rkkody was doing all anyone could imagine someone doing to take the bull by the horns of what DO and Class called the Dissemination Project while Mark and Sarah were cowering, afraid of the ramifications of people seeing their Postnet business address the Class had set up with them, with their agreement to put on the website (before they exited). They were the ones who were failing to provide TI and DO and Crews information to people, the opposite of what Rkkody was doing.

Then Mark says here: “It’s been alleged that the original website came back up in August 1997, but we’ve seen no indication of that.”

No indication of that, I guess means they weren’t checking or communicating with Rkkody much as according to Carlan (Crlody) who was working with Rkkody at that time, he recalls the heavensgate.com website coming back up around September of 1997, so Mark may be right in what he heard or didn’t actually remember. In either case that at the latest was September of 97 – 6 months after it went down and Mark admits that at some point he was managing Heavensgatetoo.com if I recall him saying, while Rkkody according to Carlan was managing Heavensgateto.com while heavensgate.com was down. So no one would have been missing out of seeing the Heaven’s gate website unless they stopped at not finding heavensgate.com up and running.

Niklas:

Mrcody’s letter mentions a Romanian internet service provider meant to function as a pre-paid online backup, should the main site be shut down or buckle under heavy traffic. The Class describes the ISP’s owner as an agreeable fellow – however, since he wasn’t quite aware of what manner of client he was dealing with, ‘We’re not sure what his response will be to this most recent event.’

35. Mark:

– He disappeared when the website crashed due to overuse, so we had to go to another server. We never heard from him or his organization So much for those payments.

35. Sawyer:

By the way, Rkkody received the bulk of the instructions related to the Romanian web site provider in two letters from DO and Crew by March 25, 1997.

Niklas:

To complicate matters further, TELAH Services – the business set up by the Group and transferred to Srfody and Mrcody – was still registered to Logan Lahson, known in the Class as Lggody. The state of Arizona would not allow for this to be changed; instead, the entity itself had to be renamed.

Sawyer:

I don’t know what documentation Mark and Sarah had that DO and Crew transferred Telah Services to them. If the really intended them to have it I would imagine they would have put it into motion before they left. I don’t know why Mark and Sarah had such a complication to moving their corporation to them. To date we have no documentation to support that the Group wanted that transfer to happen. Mark and Sarah have given me a whole lot of reasons to not trust they are acting on the up and up. Of course they never felt they had to prove anything to me. However now that they are suing me and Cathy and Carlan, what they have been saying and doing is under greater scrutiny

36. Mark:

– In May 1997, Srfody and I flew to Washington DC to speak with an IRS panel and get the appropriate changes to a 501(c)(3) organization done. It was an unusual board meeting of skeptical bureaucrats who later approved the new name: The Telah Foundation. Contrary to a rumor floated about this, no attorneys recommended these measures or were employed in the achievement thereof.

36. Sawyer:

I don’t believe much of anything Mark and Sarah say is true entirely as they have been operating using their own Minds verses TI and DO’s Minds for so long that they no longer seem to know the differences and don’t seem to remember certain things they did and why.

Like what were these IRS bureaucrats skeptical about, I wonder? Why did they have to fly to Washington DC to speak with an IRS panel? There are IRS people in every state. Why didn’t they just form a new non-profit corporation.

They said in #18 that “They turned the corporation over to us in May 1996; after that, we were asked to assist them with many things. We helped where we could, but safety for both parties was always in play.”

If The Class turned over the Telah Services corporation to Mark and Sarah why was it still registered to Logan Lahson (aka Lggody)?

DO and Crew did give them the task of dividing the contents of storage among those who wanted to disseminate their information. That didn’t require any legalities if they had gone to storage when they could have or told Rkkody and Oscody of the instructions before they went on March 26th.

I don’t know what they needed Telah Services for that the Classroom didn’t provide them with. In their letter from “Pursers” Mark and Sarah received on March 25, 1997 they wrote:

“We have only two bank accounts of possible interest to you – business accounts for Higher Source Contract Enterprises and TELAH Services.”

The same letter also said, “You can also use whatever is in the TELAH bank account, which we think is about $1430.”

So did The Class give them a way to access the TELAH bank account? Maybe whatever Mark and Sarah received in the so called, “transfer” of TELAH Services to Mark and Sarah would have been enough to access that bank account but then it seems they wanted to use Telah Services for more. My guess is that there were certain legal documents they wouldn’t have that they wanted to use to be able to prove they had the right to transfer copyrights the Group had in the name of TOA or Total Overcomers Anonymous or Total Overcomers Anonymous Monastery or Oliver Odinwood (who initially held the copyright for the paintings he painted that were listed as illustrations for The Meeting Screenplay and for his name also being on the copyright for the script for The Meeting itself without proof that they were TELAH Services. So perhaps that’s why they created sought a name change only to Telah Foundation and then proceeded to copyright 486 audios, Video tapes and The Book and certain pictures like the Away Team patch, the website Heaven’s Gate phrase and it’s use on patches, etc.

Cathy and I and Carlan in our defense and counter-suit against Mark and Sarah’s Telah Foundation and corporation they formed as “The Evolutionary Level Above Human, Inc.” they used to sue us, plan to demand their documentation in the upcoming Discovery part of the lawsuit (that Mark and Sarah had their lawyers tell the court they thought could be skipped).

Niklas:

Another rumor I came across is that Srfody had spoken to a fellow former student and been very upset, exclaiming, ‘How could they do this to us?’

37. Mark:

– No, Srfody stated nothing of the kind. She never implied that we were ‘wronged’ by the Group in any way. We’d been in training for ten months, between May 1996 to March 1997, to assume responsibility for tasks we were – and still are – honored to carry out. Those same former members have also alleged that we gave up on said tasks for a brief time; that is equally false. All the things our detractors indicate we’ve said or done could fill a book. They seem to take comfort in clinging tightly to their delusions. And once that pattern is set, they’d feel empty if any of it were to be explained to everyone’s satisfaction.

37. Sawyer:

I happen to probably be the source of said “rumor” of what Sarah (Srfody) said. It’s not something I made up. It came from Gnrody who was friends with Sarah. Gnrody and Rkkody had a relationship of some sort when Rkkody was outside the Classroom. Gnrody had a house in the Denver area. I don’t recall when they became room mates but I do know her from before I left the Class in 1994. I first met her in November of 1993 when DO had Jwnody and I set up and speak at a public meeting in Denver, in the Arapaho area. We stayed at Gnrody’s house up in Bloomfield, CO, where Rkkody had been living as well. That’s when Rkkody wanted to rejoin the Class again if he had the chance and when we all started the meetings in January of 1994, and on DO’s invitation he did rejoin us. He became one of the videographers of the group then.

Anyway, when Rkkody re-joined, Gnrody also joined us at DO’s invitation. It was a huge adjustment for anyone who had never been in the Class or even for someone who had once been in the Class but was out for years. We were a very tight knit crew by 1993. We had lots of procedures to follow and we loved the procedures but for a new comer to the Class, there was a great deal to come up to speed with to be able to become a working crew member. If someone wasn’t very flexible yet unable to adjust to the many procedures, they would become an interference. I don’t know why Gnrody didn’t stay very long. However, after I left I was in touch with her via email and on the phone a time or two. I became aware of the rift that had formed between Rkkody and Mark and Sarah. I have an email from Gnrody that calls out Mark for harassing her and Rkkody because Rkkody was doing what he felt to do with the audio tapes he retrieved from Storage. I was aware of this rift at the time but loosely as I wasn’t really engaged with the Class Info and what had occurred after their exit in any way until the early 2000’s but had contact with most long term former students.

I remember being on a telephone call with Gnrody after the Class left their human vehicles in 1997, when she out of the blue felt to tell me what Sarah had said to her that as best I can recall was, “how could they do this to us”, speaking about the Group’s exit and leaving the Postnet address they had agreed to monitor for the Group on the Heavens Gate website.

As we can see in this interview, Mark says many things that are phony, even outright deceit so his denial of what Gnrody said is unfortunately to be expected.

I’m not saying that if Sarah had said that, she is some terrible person. What makes for a terrible person is hiding things she did and appearing to be squeaky clean, which DO even can be heard addressing in audio tape 331.

Plus we have Rkkody’s manuscript that he had no reason to conjure up lies within. But it reveals how Mark and Sarah avoided like the plague doing any of the tasks their Letters from DO gave them, unless they could do things exactly their way, which they only arrived at after the main media had passed in 1997.

Someone who had absorbed Next Level behaviors and ways would be quick to admit their shortcomings. Rkkody demonstrated this big time in his manuscript. Sure humans will judge us but to us, we know that our only judge is DO and Ti and taking responsibility for our own less than Next Level behaviors and ways is part of being an active student of Next Level ways to embrace.

I trust Gnrody’s memory way more than Mark and Sarah’s. They put on the appearance of never having said or done anything wrong. Look at this interview where they blame DO for being influenced to send them out of the Class because of rumors from Classmates. Mark really demonstrates well that he hasn’t overcome his trust in his own mind over his Older Members. He has been caught in so many partial or total lies now he doesn’t seem to even know what is or isn’t actually true in many cases. One way it appears Mark shrewdly sows seeds of misinformation can be found in this statement, “She never implied that we were ‘wronged’ by the Group in any way.” Maybe she didn’t but he has. For instance at the meeting Cathy and I attended with Mark and Sarah and their lawyer, I asked them if they were in contact with Rio (Neody) and I think Mark said first, “No” and Sarah immediately chimed in with, “yes”. One of them was outright lying.

Niklas:

There are also claims that Mrcody believed himself in line to ‘make millions’ from their proprietorship of The Telah Foundation.

38. Mark:

– No, what I actually said was that a foolish lawyer had suggested that we could make a million – but we thought it would do nothing but cost us time and money. Funny how our detractors keep omitting the latter part. Their bitterness and hatred are not of the Next Level and never will be. We still nurture the hope that they will one day find it in their hearts to sincerely embrace kindness and understanding instead of this endless broken record of spiteful misconceptions. We believe it is tearing them apart and distancing them from the Next Level.

38. Sawyer:

In Rkkody’s manuscript he addresses the origin of this statement about the “million,” as he remembers it, as a first hand witness. In this quote TOM, (a pseudonym for the name of the lawyer Mark was working with that Rkkody said he first started a relationship with, to try to retrieve the contents of Storage that San Diego County had confiscated from Storage (MRC is short for Mrcody today known as Mark)):

“When we met at the Mexican restaurant only a week earlier MRC was saying that TOM wanted to form some kind of entity to be able to get all the rights to Heaven’s Gate stuff including copyrights on all the web pages and their logo’s etc. He said there can be 10’s of millions at stake.”

Even if Rkkody heard it differently than Mark, they both agree that the word “million” was used.

Sad how Mark projects his shortcomings on others as if there are not dozens of direct examples of their very poor behavior.

I didn’t know the last part until this interview because Mark is always so closed lip about most everything. I don’t care who is telling the truth. I just want to hear it. I guess Mark considers me one of his so called “detractors” yet he is the one who has been threatening me and now suing me for purely egotistical reasons that stifle TI and DO’s information getting to the public and has been saying things that are at times the opposite of what TI and DO clearly said. Since they do support the HeavensGate.com website, I feel it’s my task to be a check for them whether they want or value it or not because I don’t want someone to hear something from them and think that was from TI and DO’s Mind when they say so much that hardly is.

I don’t have bitterness or hatred feelings towards them. I’m glad they were awake enough that they got some tasks from DO and Crew before they left. I was very asleep in some ways during that time that they fault me for. Of course bitterness and hatred is not of the Next Level but their actions really speak for themselves in how they have showed those very same traits towards me as even shown in this interview that I have tried to address. Kindness and understanding has it’s value of course but when it comes to fulfilling the tasks DO gave all believers, new and old to share Their information with others, that is the kindest and most understanding thing we can do for another. And if there are misconceptions show us the evidence of such instead of being so darn general and hiding what they say they have to prove they were the only ones given the task to disseminate TI and DO’s information. I don’t care if they think they are the only ones to do that task. I know that I must share TI and DO’s information with anyone that shows some sign of wanting it. Rkkody, Crlody (Carlan) and Jhnody and others feel exactly the same way. Cathy who is a new believer feels exactly the same way. We can’t help but want to share the information but they don’t want us to. Doing all this so called infighting is something I dislike doing. I don’t want to talk about Mark and Sarah again but they are forcing it public by their direct actions trying to stop Cathy and I and Crlody (Carlan) and Jhnody and other new believers from that sharing. Sure we can talk about TI and DO from our knowledge of what’s posted in their book and website but why does it have to stop there and isn’t it better to have their exact words that even provide a more in depth understanding of what TI and DO were all about. They even stated that desire in one of the Letters to Mark and Sarah (MRC/SRF) and to Rkkody as well.

Mark’s opinion about who is distancing themselves from the Next Level is meaningless to me. He and Sarah at many times act like they can speak for TI and DO and these “emperors” have no clothes on in that regard.

Without drudging up the past, they are literally suing me for sharing TI and DO’s information with people freely, while they keep the tapes under lock and key almost entirely. Why don’t they want TI and DO who they say they honor, to have their voices heard? They insist that only they can share it and out of the other sides of their mouths suppress Their voices for 25 years. They persecuted Rkkody, then Crlody (Carlan) and then me for defying their false authority over TI and DO’s legacy. And now they even are going after new believer, Cathy with even totally easy to prove false accusations. Regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit they are, because of their relentless over lording requiring the whole truth to come out so it will probably become the source of a very detailed documentary.

The Mark and Sarah dynasty is falling again and this interview seems to be a meager attempt to preserve it’s deceitful ways they have no justification from TI and DO for.

People who hear this story to include their lawsuit they have filed, often think it is about money but I don’t think it is. It’s about their own sense of having received tasks from DO, understandably, but that they have mutated into additional tasks they had the option to exercise but would have had far less problems and wouldn’t have had to become overlords of the information deciding who can or can not have access to it and when and how much if at all. It seems evident from things they have said and/or written and/or had written on their behalf by lawyers that they want to be seen as the only Representatives of TI and DO and Crews Information they left behind but don’t want to be under fire for supporting it because of fearing some people might kill themselves because of the information. I can understand having to deal with that concern as I too have dealt with that concern but realized there were ways to legitimately talk about that while explaining and showing people how DO and Crew actually had a Position Against the S word of losing one’s vehicles life by their own hand. What is ironic about this position is that though they have expressed fear that innocent lives could be harmed by the information, they still have performed the task of providing the Heavensgate.com website that has lots of direct talk about the action they were about to take and why, though also includes talk of how exiting by one’s own hand for humans is useless because we humans all need our human vehicles to learn our many lessons through. The human kingdom was designed as the location where Spirits and Souls could grow by even outgrowing the human condition. That is a huge task and every human can benefit by applying the many lesson steps the Class provided their Students, but that to appeal to the Next Level means to do so to be of service to the most current Representatives from the Next Level who used vehicles they called TI and DO.

Here is part of the evidence of Mark and Sarah’s fears and how they felt the information should remain “confidential”:

This is a segment of the verbiage Mark and Sarah and/or Lawyers included in the Legal Agreement between The TELAH Foundation and Stephen *** A.K.A. Sawyer and Cathy *** and to provide a settlement of the Cease and Desist of 11/17/2021. Cathy and I received this as part of a long document that included many very dictatorial conditions upon which if we complied we could share some of the information with some people in some ways and would be punished if we broke the agreement. We didn’t even come close to signing it but what came from receiving it that Cathy was the broker of getting them to draft was seeing how far astray they have fallen from what TI and DO and Crews intentions were for what they called the “Dissemination Project”. Here is that one segment:

“8. CONFIDENTIAL NATURE OF MATERIAL. Telah and King are the protectors and guardians of the Material to prevent it from being misinterpreted or misused causing harm to innocent parties. Because of the sensitive nature of Material Telah and King have exercised to the best of their abilities all efforts to keep the material restricted and confidential. Recipients agree to continue keeping the Material confidential and to exercise their best efforts to prevent access to parts of said Material not agreed nor authorized by Telah and King and to exercise best efforts to prevent potentially damaging Material to be released to the public.”

Niklas:

In early May 1997, a former member called Jstody traveled to Mexico to procure phenobarbital for himself and Rkkody. Before springing into action, they recorded exit statements of their own and then sent them by post to family members and media outlets. If I’ve understood Jstody’s video correctly, he was not expecting an immediate reunion with the Away Team – which included Slvody, his wife from before the Class – but rather to be set up for incarnation into a future Classroom where he’d get another chance to graduate.

39. Mark:

– To exit was his choice; we knew nothing of what they were doing. But he’s not too far off with his exit statement – it’s called being ‘put on ice’. That is an option.

Niklas:

That reminds me of Srrody’s exit video, in which he directly addresses former Classmates. He urges them to rely on personal experience rather than media portrayals in how they should relate to the graduation event.

39. Sawyer:

I think what Mark means by saying, “That is an option” is that DO has said some may be “saved” – “put on ice”. DO said “ice” wasn’t meant to be literal. DO was speaking of the Soul. But this is one of many examples of in my opinion Mark not saying enough on the subject. It’s not exactly our option to take. It’s the Next Level’s judgment of what to do with our Soul when we leave these vehicles regardless of how and when and why we leave these vehicles.

According to Rkkody he spoke somewhat openly around Mark and Sarah and Oscody and Pypody and perhaps Rio (Neody) about his wanting to exit as the Group did. He even said about the subject, with specific reference to Sarah (Srf) that she seemed “very nervous” with the entire idea.

Here is what Rkkody says in his manuscript written about that time in March/April 1997:

“I felt like it is only a matter of time before I will be leaving my vehicle and trying to catch up with the other, yet I could tell that none of the ex-classmates I had been working with was thinking like that at all. It was a subject that made SRF very nervous and when I mentioned it to PYP his body language spoke loud and clear. In fact, there was only one person I ran into who was actually preparing for the time he could exit his vehicle. That was JSTODY. We both felt at the time that there was still things the Next Level might be able to take advantage of while we were still here and we did not want to leave without being sure that it was appropriate.”

Mark speaks of “them” which I’m pretty sure has to be Rkk and Jst and that “we” must refer to he and Sarah. Again, I know I could be wrong about this, but I don’t believe Mark, saying about them: “… we knew nothing of what they were doing”. It seems Rkkody thought they did know what Rkkody was thinking about self exiting. I don’t know if Mark was being literal by saying “we knew nothing of what they were DOING so to get out of admitting knowing what he/they were thinking.

Plus did he not watch the 60 Minutes broadcast of Sunday, March 30th, Easter Sunday that Jstody, his daughter Kelly and I did together with Leslie Stahl? In the segments, I recall Jstody saying he felt like he wanted to leave, how he missed the bus. From Rkkody’s manuscript days after Jstody and I were on that broadcast he was talking about exiting with Rkkody and even planning how and when.

re: what Mark says about Srrody, there is no evidence I can see that he was addressing “former classmates” at all. Here is his statement from the exit tape he and others made:

SRRODY: “But maybe on a more personal note, there’s a number of you out there that have probably been in contact with me personally, and a number of the classmates that you’ll be seeing on this tape. And, remember how you felt when we were there? Remember what it was like to work with us, and to be with us and you’d probably be better off trusting that rather than whatever information you run across on the TV. I’m sure there’s going to be some stuff to come out about this that can’t get the perspective that you had, so trust your own feeling rather than what you hear from someone else. That would be my primary advice to you.”

Srr said, “…have probably been in contact with me personally, and a number of the classmates that you’ll be seeing on this tape”

Former Classmates haven’t “probably been in contact with [him] personally, they definitely had contact with him, as I did over years. Plus do former classmates have to be reminded what “it was like to work with [them] and trusting that rather than whatever information [they’d] run across on the TV? I know what I experienced in the Classroom and with whom, though yes I can forget certain things but not things like what I felt about certain classmates. I for one know well that the media knows next to nothing about what really happened there. I’m not alone in that. I believe Srrody was talking to some individuals who he and other classmates had been working with at their company Higher Source and in other Out of Craft tasks (jobs in the world) and perhaps in other capacities.

I’m providing the text so that what Mark says, for those who read his article don’t assume he is expressing things that were actually said. It seems his memory on many things has been skewed. I know this can and does happen to all of us, so in this case it’s good for me to be a check on this, the same things I would like from others if I quote TI and DO and Crew and get it wrong as it appears has happened in this case with him re: what Srrody said.

Also, re: “being ‘put on ice’,” yes DO said this but he also said that wasn’t literal ice. I think adding these words is important so people don’t misunderstand His use of terms/phrases. TI and DO talked about this kind of thing in an audio tape re: leaving written things behind for humans to read, to clarify our terminology.

To me it’s sloppy to not say more and to me Mark and Sarah have done this many times over the years. I’m accused of saying too much and I’m sure at times I do, but DO and Class members were on the wordy side when it came to speaking to the public so why not err in giving them more details and examples rather than less.

But also there are no guarantees and being put on ice, or “saved” from the recycling, leaving the planet with DO, in his keeping and even so if one goes against DO’s wishes they will still be inclined to be against his wishes after they exit the current vehicle. With some overcoming of human behaviors and ways, when what we do effects only us it’s not as serious as causing more difficultly for others. I think this applies a lot more when we lead people astray with mis or disinformation and literally go against DO. Then we may be putting huge distance between us and DO, so much so that we could lose recognizing him as our Older Member. Mark and Sarah appear to be treading on that kind of thin ice. Mark shows it in his responses in this article by blaming classmates passing on rumors to DO that somehow resulted in DO sending him and Sarah out of the Class because of. For Mark to say this shows lack of looking to DO as his Older Member, treating him the way a human might treat an employer as fallible. It’s not that DO can’t make mistakes but DO was not a human mind in a human vehicle. He is a Older Member Next Level Above Human Mind using a human vehicle he made obedient to his Next Level Mind. Thus he treated everything he thought, said and did very, very carefully and was constantly checking with his connection to TI, his Older Member on how to think, speak and act, not trusting he could get it right. So Mark’s being sent out of the Class was TI sending Mark out of the Class, as well as DO doing so. If Mark sees this he’s not expressing it and perhaps he should when/if he becomes aware of this as he may not be aware that his words spell this thinking out.

40. Mark:

– The option was given to all former students within a short window of time; only a few took advantage of it. The two of us had our tasks to do and feel confident we’ll be taken care of. But we don’t know exactly what the future holds. Since the next opportunity may be a long way off, it is possible that we will also be put on ice. Most likely, many Classmates are in the same position.

40. Sawyer:

If Mark and Sarah felt the call to exit the way they did, then they could have performed the short term tasks and passed on the tasks that could exist for a long time, to someone else. I’m not trying to say DO thought they were ready to leave as for some dropouts they could have needed the lessons they would get by staying in their human vehicles.

If they had felt to leave like occurred to Rkkody and Jstody and later Oscody, they could have stayed around to perform the essential tasks. They could have gone to Storage and retrieved it’s contents and the cars that were parked at the San Diego airport and regarding the “items of value…” in storage, namely the 1061 (according to Mark) audio meeting tapes, “that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information” which is the wording in the letter to Mark and Sarah from DO and Crew.

Rkkody was a great example of performing tasks he was given and then leaving, which it seems to me he failed at his first attempt because DO and Crew wanted him to do more for them by staying longer and then they let him leave.

In Rkkody’s manuscript he talks about how he and Oscody felt to exit but didn’t want to exit too soon, thinking about whether DO might have them do certain tasks before they left. DO in his letter to Rkkody also extended the same option to him as he did to MRC/SRF and JHN, to choose from all the options.

For Rkkody the task he was given by DO involved helping Mark and Sarah with sending the letter to SAM (since it had Rkkody’s name on it, with Mark and Sarah’s), posting certain documents on the web sites, helping Mark and Sarah, if asked to retrieve the contents of Storage, participate in the “Dissemination Project” they wanted all to do, even people not named in the letters. (See Jwnody’s document, Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure).

Oscody was given at least one task to register the book with the Library of Congress. (I don’t know how much he participated in that before Mark and Sarah took over that task but he laid down his human vehicle right around the year 2000 if I recall.

I didn’t get a Letter because I think, on the two or more occasions where DO was seeking to learn about where my head was at, I didn’t seek service but wanted to do what I was doing with raising my daughter (soon to born in July of 1997).

However, despite how Mark portrays me as being engulfed in humanness, I mustered the strength and conviction to put myself in the spot light of the media with my face to Stand Up for TI and DO. Some may think I was wanting that attention but I was actually quite afraid at first because I didn’t want reporters at my doorstep in Carmel, NY where I lived at the time. But I felt I needed to tell what I knew since I knew I knew a great deal from 19 years with TI and DO. I always had completely positive things to say about TI and DO. I called Time and Newsweek magazines with my story from a phone booth and met them at a restaurant individually to give them each an interview. Then Jstody called me and invited me to go on 60 Minutes with him which I knew I had to accept and did a bunch of media with him in the NYC area before and after Easter Sunday of 1997. I showed my face all along for years because I wanted people to know who was talking. Sometimes that wasn’t a positive out among the public but by in large it wasn’t more of a negative than I could handle.

I didn’t feel to exit and had no specific tasks nor a letter from DO and Crew. I was in touch with Rkkody, Mrcody and Srfody and many other former Classmates. Mark/Sarah sent me a case or two of the Heaven’s Gate Books they brought to print/publication which was also part of their task to do with maintaining the website.

However, there is no evidence at all that DO wanted them to convert the few tasks into mega tasks, expanding their instructions to include preserving the audios with water marks for some crazy reason. (I have no problem with their doing that and would share the tapes they make if that would make them happy but that won’t make them happy.)

Had Mark and Sarah acted quickly they would have never needed to engage with lawyers to get the materials back from San Diego County. DO expressed that he didn’t even want them to try to get the things that were in the mansion, yet they did, thinking (as I saw reported) that to auction them off would be dishonoring the memory of the Classmates. I believe the court document or a reported quoted Mark said was something like he wished to preserve their memory “with dignity” and selling their personal affects threatened that he/they thought. Perhaps that was misquoting Mark but it sounds like something Mark would say.

What Mark appears to be missing here is that the “next opportunity” isn’t far off, it’s now, not just for him but for everyone. When he tells people there is “nothing to do” but study the information to be ready for DO’s return in some thousands of years when they will reincarnate then, he is misleading people to treat the current opportunity lightly. It seems he’s so afraid that someone might kill themselves or something, though there is no evidence of anyone doing that because of Heaven’s Gate for over 20+ years and no doubt we would have heard about it.

After all there is a reason DO and Crew used the headline to a document posted on their website up front entitled, “Our Position Against Suicide”. They were against human suicide and what I might call Soul suicide. They knew we each needed our human vehicles to learn the lessons we needed to learn that could only be learned while in a human vehicle. DO even said that some who laid down their vehicles lives with him would need to return to a human condition to finish their overcoming of humanness. Who knows when that would occur. However, there was still a great value to being willing to exit in any way the Next Level through their Older Members whom we as any student recognizes to be DO and Ti.

DO never closed the “Gate” but he was very clear that there were Three Types of people who would survive the recycling, speaking of Souls in vehicles.

1) those who were with him graduating to their next best station and being rewarded with significant Next Level tasks.

2) People who recognized DO as their Older Member but had weaknesses

3) Those who might not even have heard about TI and DO but were separating from the world in their own ways.

We need our human vehicles to learn our lessons to grow closer to Next Level graduation to whatever is our next best step by the Next Level’s determination of our efforts.

Niklas:

On May 6, 1997, Jstody and Rkkody donned the Away Team uniforms, ingested large quantities of phenobarbital, and pulled plastic bags over their heads. Meanwhile, CNN and CBS News had received the farewell tapes and notified authorities. Investigators contacted Rkkody’s daughter, who had just opened an envelope containing a tape of her own. She told police that her father was likely somewhere in San Diego, close to the Group’s compound. After checking motels in the vicinity, law enforcement discovered that the two men had booked room 222 of the Holiday Inn Express in Encinitas, a community adjacent to Rancho Santa Fe. When the first responders arrived, Jstody had already died. Rkkody was in critical condition; he had instinctively torn off the plastic bag before suffocating. Unlike the Class, he drank no vodka to boost the medication, so the dosage proved insufficient to kill him. Rkkody woke up chained to a hospital bed. A few months later, in February 1998, he drove out into the Arizona desert. This time he succeeded.

41. Mark:

– We finally found out that Rkkody had gotten the domain back and given it to his daughter before he died. It was being held in Mexico. We paid a lawyer to take them to court and after a fight, we got it back. The daughter in question has still not complied with the other terms of that settlement, and she should. The website went back up immediately in early 1998. Until then, we’d been using the Group’s other domains, such as heavensgatetoo.com.

41. Sawyer:

I don’t know when Rkkody got back the website from it’s being hacked. Crlody who worked with Rkkody and was with Rkkody then said he thought it was September of 1997 when they got the Heavensgate.com website back up.

What I do know is that DO and Crew prepared well for this event of their exit to include sending the website to Rkkody, and Jhnody, Mark and Sarah and as I understand it to Oscody and Chris and Holly as site hosts and to a Romanian ISP who I don’t know ever put it up. Rkkody was given the lead task in making changes to the website and also received instructions directly from DO on some documents to post on it in addition to his Right to Know website DO had him set up a PO Box for where DO sent Rkkody a Fed X with paperwork for the Truck.

By the time Rkkody left, he had been so harassed by Mark and Sarah that he was like I am now, suspicious of everything Mark and Sarah say and do, with a lot of evidence that shows such suspicions are justified. I have a letter from Rkkody’s daughter from 1997 that tells of how Mark and Sarah were threatening her with the loss of her house if she didn’t give the website back to them. That reminds me of how Mark threatened me and those who are friends on my Facebook page sawyer.heavensgate with $100’s of thousands of dollars of fines for using or transcribing or copying or distributing the audio tapes I had just received from Jhnody who received them from Mark and Sarah.

Niklas:

The Heaven’s Gate anthology, How and When “Heaven’s Gate” May Be Entered, was treated to a posthumous release by Wild Flower Press on March 1, 1998. My impression is that this was not a hugely lucrative venture.

42. Mark:

– We had to pay cash to get the final version printed; it cost us a lot of money. The publisher did his job but became disillusioned when no one wanted to buy the book. Ultimately, before he threw them all away, we got him to ship the remaining copies to us. We’ve been selling them one by one – at the mere cost of our production expenses – over the past two decades.

42. Sawyer:

Mark fails to say that he and Sarah received at least $10,000.00 directly from the Group upon their exit and/or may have retrieved more from unpaid accounts receivable they were given to be the recipients of, which was all to help them and others be able to perform the Dissemination Project. Instead they blew it on lawyers, though I don’t take away from them that they have paid for the heavensgate.com website to be up and running all these years. However when they clearly weren’t doing much at all of the dissemination project I offered to take over the website because others who believed in TI and DO AND were doing the largest portion of the Dissemination Project. Rkkody even bridged the gap of the tasks Mark and Sarah were hoped to perform by doing things himself. Rkkody also received $10,000.00 and so did Oscody as I understand it from Crlody who worked directly with Rkkody in 1997.

If Mark and Sarah had read their Letters from DO and Crew on March 25 when they received them and then compared notes with what it said in the Letters to Rkkody and others they would have stopped Rkkody and Oscody from going to the mansion so fast on March 26th without taking with them those instructions that included the means of retrieving the cars from the airport and the truck from one storage location and the contents of two storage lockers where the tapes were.

Niklas:

After first suing the County of San Diego Property Group in April 1997, Mrcody and Srfody made it into court by the end of 1998.

43. Mark:

– It took the designated Special Master two years to realize he wasn’t going to shake us. Finally, after about $325,000 in total costs, we got a settlement of all the Group’s intellectual property. Not only did we receive the videotapes and the balance of audio recordings, writings, and patches, but we got all the important items from the storage locker and the house. That’s how we acquired items even Do never expected us to get. Our settlement with San Diego County included all the Group’s financial records, logs, and items from the house, as well as Do’s bed and nightstands along with all of his books. We purchased the camera they filmed everything on, and all the tapes associated with it. We still use that camera. Through the auction, the public got the cars, clothes, kitchen items, and laundry goods. They got the bunk beds because we did not want them. Anyone claiming to have original patches, purple shrouds, or other items of that exit is mistaken. Remember, San Diego County incinerated the mattresses, bedding, shrouds, shoes, clothing, and anything else that touched their bodies. The county even provided us with the police case files – perhaps by mistake? – so we got their correspondence with the families and the real stories of what they thought of us.

43. Sawyer:

If Mark and Sarah had organized and spoke to Rkkody and Oscody and perhaps Neody (Rio) starting even on March 25th knowing DO’s hopes for their performing a variety of tasks, they would have retrieved all the cars, the truck and all the contents of two storage rooms. Because of their failure they did seem to have had to hire lawyers to sue San Diego County to then get at least the contents of the two Storage Rooms and/or all the other items.

DO said in the letters and in the letter Mark and Sarah received to send to SAM, the owner of the Rio Rancho Santa Fe house they lived in to not seek to have the items in the mansion yet Mark and Sarah sought to have it all. Mark even admits here that DO didn’t expect them to get certain items. DO also knew the house may be made into a shrine.

Yes, they got a settlement but that was only because Judge Lisa Guy Schall didn’t want to prolong the families getting some funds to resolve the estates of the Classmembers. She could have held out because her first ruling was that Mark and Sarah didn’t show her (the court) anything that showed the Group intended them to be more than “distributors” of the Intellectual property. In fact if they try to sell any of what they received they could be prosecuted in breaking that decision, which may have something to do with their trying to stop anyone else from selling certain items with the Groups artwork, etc.

Note they only got the “balance of audio recordings”. Rkkody retrieved with Oscody 486 audio tapes and split them with Oscody. Then Rkkody with help from Crlody at some point, copied them and digitized them and sent them to people including me. I’m being sued by Mark and Sarah for playing for free some audio tapes of TI and DO on my YouTube channel: 3spm and Cathy, my partner is also included in the lawsuit as well as Crlody even though they don’t have a consent decree that names each of the audio tapes that we were playing as among the 1061 audio tapes.

Rkkody while he was in the Classroom in 1994 had his own camera and DO had him travel with groups who were putting on meetings and film whatever he felt to. I believe Rkkody left that film with his daughter. It includes film of the Chicago meeting, an interview in a Portland Radio Station and from the Missoula, Montana meeting, all of which include me in. I believe he had other footage when he was assigned by DO to switch groups then. My understanding is that Neody (Rio) also had a camera then. I don’t know what footage Rio has. So I consider that part of the footage of the Class since some of the graduates were in the footage Rkkody and presumably Neody took.

As far as Mark having also bought from San Diego County in the Settlement, “all the tapes associated with it [the camera]” why is it that only the media get to see those tapes? Like the tape of the Classes visit to Gold Beach, OR. If that was among the “items of value” in the Storage Room that they said Mark and Sarah could divided among those inclined to disseminate their information, who has Mark and Sarah given them to. I’m not saying I want the originals but Crlody and I and now Cathy have been among some of the biggest disseminators of Their information, so give us copies of those tapes or post them somewhere so anyone could have them instead of hording them thinking that they are meant to be the only ones to see them unless they give them to someone else to see.

I’m glad Mark and Sarah received, “real stories of what they thought of us” but if by saying “real” he is implying that what I have said about them from my personal experience with them and from being in the Class when they were sent out of the Class isn’t real, then once again they are puffing themselves up which they don’t need to do as there is no embarrassment in revealing the facts of their leaving the Class rather than make stuff up as they have been doing or just ignoring those facts. Also by saying that they are sort of prodding me to compile all the statements from DO in the audio tapes to show what all DO said over the years in his attempted communication with them.

I have held back from doing that for years. I didn’t hardly talk about the circumstances of their being sent out of the Class for years until they gave an interview with Gizmodo and made up a totally fabricated story when asked. That was misinformation from my recollection as a first hand witness that I can prove being present during and can prove DO talked about quite a bit in audio tapes made after they left.

I don’t know if Mark knows if some clothing and/or shoes that was in travel bags or in dresser draws that wasn’t incinerated. It’s also possible they had a shroud for Neody (Rio) but didn’t need to use it since Rio left about 2 weeks before they exited.

Niklas:

Do you mean the county’s correspondence with the families?

44. Mark:

– Yes. The county employees were very frank about what they thought of us. We were considered ‘the enemy’, and they indicated that we’d stopped the auction of goods meant to pay for the family members’ funerals. As if we owed them that. When we put a stop to this in court, their anger level increased and they got the families even more riled up. Once we had received what was due to us, as mandated by a court of law, they blamed us for the low turnout at their auction and the meager amount of dollars it brought in. They had illegally secured items from the storage, and we had to get it all back. Which we did, to great cost out of our own pocket. We have not received any payments other than the production cost of the book. The total expenses of all court cases, production costs, legal issues, etc is now over $500,000. But we had to do what was right and necessary to make the Next Level information available to the world.

44. Sawyer:

Wow, yet another of many spins. In fact I have Judge Lisa Guy Schall’s two decisions In the first decision, she found no evidence that Mark and Sarah had any legal right to any of the Groups property. Mark and Sarah were fined about $4000.00 for filing a “frivolous lawsuit” that may not have included paying for San Diego’s lawyer expenses.

I remind that had they acted quickly, even as quickly as Rkkody and Oscody acted and/or had they informed Rkkody and Oscody of the Groups intention of their Letters instructing them and Rkkody and Oscody’s and others retrieving all the cars, the truck and all the contents of two storage rooms, then they would have had no legal expenses at all. However since they failed at acting quickly and caused delays of even Rkkody and Oscody even knowing about the Storage Rooms, when the locks got put on the two storage rooms by San Diego county around March 28th or so, then it became necessary to enlist lawyers to try to get at least the intellectual property found in one of the storage rooms.

Mark says certain items were “due to them,” and yes, DO did hope they would retrieve items in one or two storage rooms, which like I just said, they failed to do. But DO didn’t expect them to get anything from the Mansion. He and His crew said as much in at least two Letters so Mark and Sarah were again off track by including trying to get all the possessions the group had.

Mark is saying that what was “due to us, as mandated by a court of law”, as if that court was an authority over who got that material and as if that court gave them the authority to then lord over the materials and covet the 1061 audio tapes and prosecute those who denied they (Mark and Sarah) were following what DO and TI hoped they would do in the “dissemination project”.

They didn’t “put a stop to this in court,” they simply threatened to drag on the proceeding for more and more time and families of the deceased should have received some of those items to retrieve burial costs. The Class didn’t think Mark and Sarah should have anything but the things in the one or two storage rooms, to divide among those who were inclined to disseminate their information and/or to sell for funds to support the dissemination project and that Mark and Sarah have all but hidden away.

Mark says, speaking of the county that “they had illegally secured items from the storage and we had to get it all back” yet it was Mark and Sarah that didn’t lift a finger to get those items out of storage when they had the time to do so, which they had plenty of time, (days) to do before San Diego found the storage rooms and put their own locks on the doors. They seem to take no responsibility for what happened when it was all their responsibility

Then Mark says, they “had to do what was right and necessary to make the Next Level information available to the world.” Isn’t that ironic in a very sad kind of way that they did just the opposite. The website and the Heaven’s Gate Book posted on the website was already available to the world through Rkkody and anyone else who was sharing it. They ended up with one of those three near duplicate web sites. Others like Rkkody and Jhnody and Flxody/Ablody and perhaps others received the Beyond Human Video Tape series and since I was sent them by Mark and Sarah (before they disagreed with how I chose to disseminate the information) and that Carlan was providing to people that Rkkody had been sending out to me and others all along. Those tapes were uploaded to a YouTube channel called Heavensgatedatabase.

So the only items of value that was possible of being provided by them they didn’t provide, namely the 1061 audio meeting tapes. Carlan and myself were doing most of that provision to people and they were dead set against our doing so but as Mark told Cathy and I, they “let it slide” which they also knew that Carlan had been posting the audios Rkkody retrieved from storage on a site called 4shared.com for free download since 2009 or so. They knew about that site I’m sure but “let is slide” even though they had a copyright on those tapes we think but don’t know for sure since they never told anyone what they had copyrighted. (By the way their copyrights may have been obtained illegally which we will fight out in court).

So they provided next to nothing to the world, except for the web site and some video’s, some of the same info others were circulating. Yes, they did have to go to court to retrieve the items of value in storage but that was because of their failure, theirs and no one elses.

Plus, what Mark is also not telling, is that they threatened to appeal Judge Lisa Guy Schall decision to not award them with anything and what the judge then said in her next opinion was that for the benefit of all involved, keeping mind of many bereaved families she decided to seek a settlement. So the county got a number of the groups cars left for former students to use, sell or give away but to use any proceeds for the dissemination project. Rkkody wrote about how Mark and Sarah were listening to a lawyer re: giving the truck to a nursing home as a show to the judge that they were good people. However, DO did suggest giving it to a nursing home but Rkkody wanted to sell it and use the funds to disseminate the information, as DO spoke about as a type of priority. Instead the vehicles were used to in a sense bribe the Judge to give them some of the possessions of the Group. The Judge also got about $2000.00 from Mark and Sarah as well and they agreed not to sell any of the items.

So they got a Consent Decree to possess the contents of storage that contained the balance of audio tapes the group had since Rkkody had retrieved some 486 before then and other of the storage content. Then they used that decree to get another Consent Decree to win against Kathy (Rkkody’s daughter) to get the Heavensgate.com website because Rkkody left it to Kathy because he was choosing to exit his vehicle and he no longer trusted Mark and Sarah would do what DO and Crew wished for it. Mark and Sarah won because Kathy had no money to fight against lawyers and the previous consent decree and they were threatening Kathy with her losing her house if they didn’t get what they wanted.

I think DO would have intended Mark and Sarah to have the website, but don’t think they handled it as DO would have hoped, yet that was their test and DO is their judge. However, we can judge the things they say to people who come to the website who come to me (and told Cathy in emails) and tell me how little they helped them and told them things that were anti what DO taught.

For instance, Mark and/or Sarah told Cathy in at least one email that there was nothing to do but study the information to be ready to reincarnate some thousands of years from now when DO returns. This is anti DO’s teachings as he said the gate was still open. He wasn’t promoting suicide though for some that would have been an acceptable way to choose to exit. But for people who never personally knew, though there could be a rare exception, the method was to “get their information out” and be willing to Stand in Their Defense, their being from the Creators Kingdom that created the earth and all it’s inhabitants. This is spelled out in several ways in the document on the Heavensgate.com website in the article written by DO’s trusted servant Jwnody, named, “Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure”. There are many other documents that talk about being against human suicide because we need these vehicles to learn lessons through.

Also in their lawsuit against Rkkody’s company Right to Know and his Daughter, they also won the Heavensgate.com website and copies of the Groups Book (they never collected) and sought to stop the selling of Heavens Gate, Ollody’s (Oliver Odinwood’s) artwork on mugs, t shirts, etc. which Rkkody only did so he could keep giving away tapes and Cd’s with the Heavens Gate Information on them, not a bad way to fund the effort.

That’s part of what enabled Mark and Sarah to think they were to be on control of all the information to an uncanny degree of limiting who could hear the audio tapes, even though DO didn’t give them that kind of task. DO only gave them the task of dividing the materials among those who wanted to disseminate their information, yet they distorted that into becoming their own little empire to where they are doing the opposite seeking to stop me and Cathy and Carlan and Jhnody from disseminating the information as if that wasn’t our task to do, the task of any believer to do. They told Cathy and I in person that they didn’t understand why what they were doing to disseminate the information was enough, when that is completely missing the point of the dissemination project as it was any new believers way of working for the Next Level rather than letting some hierarchy do that work. It’s the same way the Lower Forces sought to take over the Jesus records and did though the Catholic church and later other sects who even persecuted so called lay people who began sharing their interpretations with others. The clergy thought they were only qualified to teach/instruct and interpret things when they many times were distorting and diluting the meaning of Jesus teachings. I have many, many examples now of things they have said to interviewers that are doing the same kinds of things, diluting and distorting what TI and DO taught, coming up with their own interpretations and treating people as “swine”, they don’t feel are worthy of having and sharing the information, telling them when they allowed some to have a few of the 1061 audio tapes that it’s only for personal use and not to be given to anyone else. And to put the icing on that cake they have baked, they are suing me and threatening to sue anyone who disobeys their edict.

Niklas:

Most accounts I’ve read from outsiders who dealt with Classmates in person have been consistent about them coming across as relatively ‘normal’. A May 1997 Seattle Times article quotes a spokeswoman from Interact Entertainment Group who describes the Higher Source consultants they hired as ‘strict in diet and dress’ but with ‘a good sense of humor’ and being ‘exceptionally smart’. In the discourse surrounding Heaven’s Gate, there is much talk of ‘brainwashing’. Students are portrayed as some manner of hypnotized victims spellbound by a charismatic leader. Ben Zeller – whose writings are a must-read for anyone who wants to understand Heaven’s Gate – disagrees. He argues that, rather than mindless cultists, the members were devoted religious adherents. Bearing this in mind, it’s interesting to observe how both HBO’s Heaven’s Gate: The Cult of Cults and an ambitious podcast series I listened to feature Zeller heavily in the historical segments yet omit his views on brainwashing. Instead, these analyses are provided by a colorful cast of characters who all appear to be occupational anti-cult entrepreneurs with only rudimentary knowledge about Heaven’s Gate.

45. Mark:

– Ben Zeller has demonstrated a tendency to rely on a more studied model of careful analysis and educated background, resulting in an independent point of view and objective reasoning to back up his studies. Documentary producers inevitably want less thorough examinations in favor of provocative quips and vapid statements. Accordingly, they often turn to a second or third tier of people in the field – alleged ‘cult experts’ who possess neither the credentials nor the logic required.

45. Sawyer:

It was Ben Zeller who sent me his first book’s manuscript on the Heavens Gate story to comment, which I did. I’m not sure he used much if any of what I said about it. For the Heavens Gate podcast by Pineapple Street Media he worked with that team to develop the 10 series podcasts that was quite instrumental to provide more of a look at the students in particular by playing a clip of the audio part of the video of The Class singing.

After that series had been very successful on iTunes, Ben Zeller invited me to join him and Anne Hepperman, the Director of the Heaven’s Gate Podcast, (who interviewed me at their Brooklyn Office and then came to my house in Vermont to get a more in depth interview) at the annual conference of the American Academy of Religion in Denver in 2018, I think it was, that Ben was a member of.

Anne and Ben knew that I was not happy with the way Terrie Nettles and Frank (Andody) portrayed both TI and DO as hypocrites. Anne wasn’t the writer so she had limited influence on the script and what was used from the interviews she provided the show. They didn’t give me any time to provide some explanation to the claims that TI was a hypocrite for writing letters to her vehicle’s daughter Terrie over the years TI and DO’s students weren’t permitted to write letters (though there were a few exceptions to that).

For me, I believed in TI and DO’s program of wiping out the past to begin to become a new creature. I had no strong ties to anyone in my past at the time so it was relatively easy for me to no longer relate to my vehicle’s family. After all I’d been living in British Columbia, Canada, near Clear water and then in Newport, Siletz and Waldport Oregon for nearly 4 years while my family was in New York where this vehicle of mine grew up and I was only occasionally calling or writing them, though I did visit them in the summer of 1975 before I joined with TI and DO.

But that was the program. I didn’t have to abide by the program. For the first 9 months in the group there were plenty of opportunities to contact family as it was the honor system whether someone separated from those ties or not.

But the report from Terrie because of one tiny sentence I believe she misinterpreted into thinking TI was looking for a way out of the group, yet she didn’t seem to have a clue I guess to who TI, The Soul was and how She was actually the greater driving force to help DO awaken – but then they were both equally that same driving force to fulfill the tasks they realized they were sent to do that in their design DO was to complete after TI left. We didn’t know in the Classroom that that was actually part of the design for TI (The Father, DO’s Older Member aka Heavenly Father, Jehovah and Elohim) to leave the task ahead of DO as even shown in Revelation 12:

Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

The Flood is the vast negativity TI was at the helm of the task to receive and deal with for their first 10 years together. The saying, “the earth opened her mouth” was a way people spoke of someone going into the grave. In other words the death and leaving behind of her vehicle.

In the next verse…

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

…the Woman’s (TI’s Soul’s) seed continues and DO who TI graduated into The Next Level Above Human Membership was her seed and those who had the testimony of Jesus were The Students’ Souls about 4000 years ago with Moses (DO) who upheld “the commandments of God” and then some 2000 years ago upheld “the testimony of Jesus Christ” (also DO’s Soul’s).

I mean, say you were a student and entered into a university to study chemistry and the professor gave a lesson on completing an experiment. The professor might know of a number of ways to complete that same experiment but knows the Student needs to learn one of those primary ways of performing the experiment that even includes learning to follow instructions – a critical lesson to learn in any laboratory or for any team or crew. The student also needs to receive the instructions to prove to the Professor they can follow instructions as that might end up being a life and death situation if they don’t. The Student doesn’t design the program. We students didn’t have anything to do with the design of the experiment/program to outgrow and overcome our humanness. I knew from the start that TI and DO were exactly who they said they were and thus to me their instructions were exactly what I wanted to do, though I did have my weaknesses. TI didn’t need to follow the drop the past guideline as we did yet she did by separating from Terrie, her vehicle’s husband and her other three children. But TI felt to keep Terrie abreast of some of what she was thinking and felt to help Terrie (and Joey, her vehicles son) with a small amount of financial help as well, what added up to about $600.00 I believe Terrie reported.

Furthermore when TI did instigate our visiting our human families in 1985, the task was described primarily as relieving their anxiety about our absence from their lives. As it turned out it was also a test of our own commitment to TI and DO. TI wrote letters to Terrie and sent her some funds for several reasons. One was to relieve her anxiety at her mothers absence from her life. But also, both TI and DO loved Terrie and wanted to give her the best chance they could of rising up to see Them as who they had awakened to become, Two Older Member Souls from the Next Level Above Human, the Kingdom of God, the Physical Kingdom of Heaven. We have about 200 audio tapes that show how dedicated TI was to the task so for anyone to believe what Terrie guessed and perhaps wanted to believe about TI “trying to get out” has no evidence to it and instead there is tons of evidence to the contrary.

Another point in that podcast, while I’m at it was brought up by Terrie also that was critical of DO because he didn’t tell Terrie that TI’s vehicle had been sick and died. I know from a human perspective that would be a horrible thing to not tell her. But TI and DO were not humans though they occupied human vehicles. As it turned out, TI had told DO not to tell Terrie about her dying since she knew she was leaving. The doctors sent her home to die because they said the cancer in her liver had spread throughout her body and TI didn’t want to go through all it might take to try to halt the cancer. They even told the doctor before he even diagnosed her with liver cancer that she didn’t want to fight it nor be kept alive on machines. TI knew it was time to exit. DO said she burnt out her vehicle dealing with the bulk of the negativity against her that primarily started when they went public and attracted followers in 1975.

The clincher that DO was honestly trying to follow TI’s last wishes by not telling Terrie of TI’s death of her vehicle at that time is evident because TI didn’t tell Terrie that she had her eye removed, from Cancer, some 2 years before the death sentence. We lived in Texas mostly in those years where Terrie also lived and yet TI didn’t call Terrie but one time I think. Nor did TI visit Terrie. Nor did TI talk about her sickness to Terrie.

I believe TI didn’t want to tell Terrie because she didn’t want Terrie to be upset and didn’t want to have Terrie want to visit her and to unknowingly cause interference with DO being able to carry on the Classroom to finish the task.

DO said he knew there would come a time where he would have to explain to Terrie what happened to TI, and why he had to live by TI’s last wishes. DO did send two students to explain about TI’s exit soon after TI left. TI was concerned big time with the Groups security. After all there were investigators looking for various adult students and the FBI at one time were looking for them thinking they had something to do with the cattle mutilations in Wyoming, Colorado and Texas and Oklahoma in the early to mid 1970’s. TI and DO didn’t want some so called cult deprogrammer to try to kidnap someone’s loved one in the Group. The students were all adults and no one was held against their will or threatened in any way or made to feel guilty for leaving. In fact some were sent out of the group a number of times because they didn’t seem to be fully engaging growth as TI and DO felt we needed to do.

By the way, there was one time that DO called a meeting that TI didn’t attend to where DO asked us to bring any bibles we had to. We didn’t have many so we doubled up on them. I think I recall I was partners with Chkody at the time. DO had us open up to Revelation 12:1.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

DO said the “Woman” (generator of life) was speaking of TI his Older Member. The entire chapter of Revelation 12 is like an outline of what was to happen from TI’s perspective where Revelation 11 was like an outline of what was to happen from both TI and DO’s perspective. Revelation 10 is like an outline of what was to happen from Students perspective prior to Revelation 11 and after they ascended back into their positions on board spacecrafts in the Next Level’s keeping. There is lots more to say about the Book of Revelation that I’ve said in my book and in video’s posted on my YouTube channel: 3spm.

Finally regarding the Heaven’s Gate Podcast, Frank (who had been Andody in the Class until he left in 1993) said that DO had become more controlling after TI left when I think the evidence suggests if one wants to use that “controlling” word that there were actually less “controls” in place after TI left. We had more movies, video’s, deserts, exercise programs. DO ate with us more and DO was more relaxed on talking. I asked Frank for examples of DO becoming more controlling and he had nothing to say.

Niklas:

Today, most scholars consider the concept of brainwashing– a term that first emerged to explain why captured US soldiers had defected to North Korea – as not only pseudoscience but also inapplicable to members of what we commonly call ‘religious cults’. One of the consultants in the HBO series, a sociologist named Janja Lalich, dismisses the relative scientific consensus on brainwashing as ‘some academics who want us to think that it doesn’t exist’. On the contrary, she ‘guarantees’ its existence based on her experience as an activist in a Marxist-Leninist political party. She has since, and I quote, ‘dedicated her life to educating others about cults’ by writing books and giving lectures. She’s also launched her own scientific explanation for brainwashing: ‘bounded choice’. One of her books uses Heaven’s Gate to argue this model.

46. Mark:

– Lalich wrote a non-objective book about her experience in a cult and then threw in our trademarks – which are illegal for her to use – to get people to buy it. None of these ‘experts’ have any training in the relevant fields. They have neither the studied background nor the discipline but are used by directors for sheer sensationalism. The characters in that HBO special had already been discredited by professionals in fields such as anthropology, sociology, psychology and applied religious studies long before it was produced. They are low-level hacks who should never be used by real news or documentary-makers seeking accurate information. We told the production crew, in person, not to use those individuals. Instead, they edited Zeller’s contributions to the show down to a minimum.

46. Sawyer:

First off, the so called Trademarks that Mark and Sarah registered are very in doubt. None of them were condoned by TI and DO and Crew. Mark and Sarah received nothing to give them reasons to trademark anything but even if they did or even if that was a good idea, to keep those images away from new and old believers is very against TI and Do’s intentions in my evidenced based opinion.

Niklas:

In the media section of Janja Lalich’s website, Cult Research & Information Center, there is a 2021 video called Secrets of the Heaven’s Gate Cult. I watched it and noticed a few extraordinary assertions. For instance, she purports to have been the first to figure out who the departed were and what cult they belonged to. That is downright ridiculous since everyone’s pockets contained an ID, and the Heaven’s Gate website was left open on their computers. Furthermore, she says there were media vans ‘lined up’ on her street, with reporters hanging on her doorstep waiting for the renowned expert to appear. Robert Balch and David Taylor – both of whom appear in the HBO series – are by all accounts the only academics to have worked directly on Heaven’s Gate before the suicides, and they attracted nowhere near that kind of media hounding.

47. Mark:

– If those in the Class truly were ‘brainwashed’, there really is little hope for the world. This insistence is a clear indicator of weakness and lack of serious study by these ‘specialists’. In reality, they are just recovering from their own failures. Why have neither Lalich nor the other one – Steve Hassan – who appeared in the Stitcher podcast and HBO special never so much as contacted us to get the real story or verify their information? Nor have they spoken to any of those from the Class featured in the same programs. We own all the Group’s teachings, and we’ve never heard from either of them.

47. Sawyer:

Mark says, “We own all the Group’s teachings…” That “ownership” was decreed by Judge Lisa Guy Schall to enter into a settlement with Mark and Sarah so they wouldn’t appeal her judgment against them having any right to any of the Heaven’s Gate property they left behind. So they bribed the County to get the intellectual property they did get. Then they used that settlement decision to win another Consent Decree in 1999. But in reality TI and DO didn’t want anyone to “own” the material.

Here is an example of what DO thought about ownership taken from Session 12 of the “Beyond Human – The Last Call” Video Series:

“Actually, there shouldn’t be any here in the human kingdom. This kingdom and every element on it, everything that goes into making an automobile or a house or a company or anything else, belongs to the Chief of Chiefs and His Kingdom, the God of Gods. It does not belong to humans. Humans play a little game of copy-cat by saying, “I want to own this, I want to stake this off, it’s mine.” It isn’t his, he’s just playing a game. Now if he has the attitude that it isn’t “mine,” he’s at least a little closer. If he has the attitude of saying, “This is just entrusted to me as the keeper of it, and I’ll do the best I can.” And if the day comes when a Representative is there with the transition available, the day is come if you’re someone who might be capable of connecting with this and know your Father.”

Previous to this part of DO’s talk he explained needing to have a car title or house title to abide by the laws of this land, but in the case of the Intellectual Property belonging to it’s creators there is no need for such a legal document unless someone has chosen to look to the human kingdom minds to drum up such a justification.

They wanted “any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information” and who could even sell it to raise funds to continue to disseminate their material. They are suing me and Cathy for making and selling T shirts with the heaven’s gate logo on them and for using the Celestial Being image Ollody created. All we wanted to do was put those images out into the world and sure we have to turn a little profit to be able to continue doing that and other related work. But they let those lawsuits go to their heads and caused them to ignore what TI and DO showed they expected to happen.

But since Mark brings up the Stitcher, Pineapple Street Media documentary, that had Lalich and Hassan in it, which I agree are know nothings who media groups turn to, to please their primary constituents

However, while I was working with Anne Hepperman, having been invited by her to be interviewed in her teams office in Brooklyn to include me in their podcast and when she came to my house in Vermont for additional footage, I learned that she also interviewed Nancie Brown, mother of Alxody’s vehicle (one of the Students who exited), who I had also been close to after I left the Group in 1994.

Anne learned from Nancie that she had a video tape of the Christmas celebration, I believe of 1996 when Alxody and Vrnody returned from their choice to have the castration operation. By the way, DO set up that option, in a way that required a student who wanted the operation to go live in an area close to where the operation would be performed by a certified surgeon of that procedure. That person needed to get a job to pay for it themselves. This way that person would not be under the influence of DO. So Alxody and Vrnody (who was a relatively new student having joined in 1994, whom I met then, had finished their having that operation.

The Song of TI and DO:

The video showed the Classroom singing the DO a deer song from the Sound of Music that they changed the lyrics to be about TI and DO’s Classroom. TI and DO had felt that musical was significantly influenced in the story and music, etc. directly by a Next Level Above Human Crew to be a type of outline for TI and DO’s awakening and taking a group of students through learning their lessons (TI called a “piano roll” to where each lesson step was like one note on the piano and all the lessons would accumulate into a “song”, (which is depicted in Revelation chapters 5 and 14). TI also compared the lesson plan to Old McDonald’s Farm song to where each lesson step was like the sound each animal made, so that each time one goes through the song they sing the building string of animal sounds, again into a “song”. In the case of the Classroom the lessons weren’t literally musical sounds/notes. For instance one lesson step was to stop oneself from thinking about the past. This was the beginning of becoming a new creature in TI and DO’s “Process” aka Overcoming Process to cease operating as a human and with human mind and to increase operating with Their Next Level Mind by adopting their behaviors and ways they taught since they were the Teachers of the Experiment Requirements to complete the Astronaut Training Program to literally get a job that could be eternal to work in Crews on board spacecrafts that could be as large as planets, inside and/or out.

So on with the story. So Anne told me that Nancie told her that Mark and Sarah said she couldn’t give the video to anyone, that it was meant for her only. So Anne wanted to use it so knowing that I had a close relationship with Nancie asked me if I would ask her to allow her to use the audio track in the podcast. How could this be a bad thing I thought. Mark and Sarah were crazy with their sense of being the authority over all the material they had possession of. So I called Nancie and asked her and she told me Mark (and don’t know if she included Sarah) made her promise not to give the video to anyone, confirming what Anne had told me.

So it was then time for Anne to visit with Nancie in California to get an interview. When she went there she asked Nancie if she could rip (remove) the audio track from the video and Nancie agreed. That’s how part of the audio track got into the Heaven’s Gate podcasts, I believe, last episode #10.

However, Anne also told me that when Mark (and perhaps Sarah) heard it broadcast he was very upset and issued some kind of threat against their playing it but I don’t know if they ever followed through with their threat.

The video also included a “talent show” by some students and I believe I ended up seeing part of it in another documentary. I’m not sure how that came about but the HBO Max show, Heaven’s Gate Cult of Cults was a joint effort by the producers of the Heaven’s Gate podcast and a California based Video production Group.

Niklas:

Mrcody and Srfody have now served as Heaven’s Gate’s caretakers for over twenty-five years – longer than the Class even existed. Their day-to-day tasks range from website maintenance to answering emails and handling the Group’s intellectual property. Ever vigilant, in 2020 they threatened to sue a rapper called Lil Uzi Vert unless he changed his album cover which used a modified version of the Heaven’s Gate logo.

48. Mark:

– The Telah Foundation requires roughly four hours on an average day; about thirty hours per week, including weekends. The remaining time is devoted to our full-time jobs so that we can finance these activities. Our main task is disseminating the Next Level information to the world – from the website to the book, the tapes, and all that relates to it. It is our firm belief that the Class bequeathed their teachings to us in the way they wanted them to be, without edits or spotlights placed on individuals left behind. Srfody and I have gone to great lengths to ensure the materials remain intact. We have a profound understanding that the Group’s writings and intellectual property are part of their legacy.

48. Sawyer:

Mark and Sarah are both convinced that they and they only are to spread TI and DO’s information. That’s never been TI and DO’s intention for them to limit others and limit who could see/hear/read the information. Yes they have supported the website for all these years and I of course don’t take that away from them but they are not doing even a decent job of sharing the information with the world. They have told me and Cathy to our faces that they see people that attempt to use TI and DO’s information as “cockroaches” who they show their court order/consent decrees to and they “scatter” because of. They think of people as “swine” also, yet they do provide the website. They accused me of promoting suicide, calling me a “murderer” when I’ve never killed anyone nor promoted suicide and actually have talked endlessly about the futility of suicide and how the group themselves were anti human suicide because we need our physical bodies to learn lessons through.

There are so many things they could do to share Ti and Do’s Information with the “world” that they hardly lifted a finger to do. They finally put the Beyond Human videos on Vimeo while they had been available on YouTube and through myself and Crlody (Carlan) for many years. Even a new believer in TI and DO, referred to as XF did more to share the information with the world than they have done and they issued strikes against him or had someone named Dave do so, when all XF did was post the Beyond Human Videos for free download.

In 1997 they were even harassing Rkkody and Rkkody’s housemate Gnrody. I have proof of this. They wanted Rkkody to give them the audio tapes he and Oscody had retrieved from Storage. They had retrieved 486 audio tape cassettes and pretty much split them so that Rkkody had about 200 of them and Oscody had the others. Rkkody knew from the Letter Mark and Sarah received from DO and Crew that they were to divide the items of value among those who were inclined to disseminate our information, and the audio tapes were stacked in boxes at the front of that storage room. In the same Letter it was suggested that Mark and Sarah get help with Storage from Rkkody and Oscody (and even others). According to Rkkody Mark and Sarah wanted nothing to do with Storage, which is why they turned over the keys to vehicles and storage codes and locations and the Letters to Rkkody. It was about a week later that Mark and Sarah saw that the main media frenzy that happened had died down already and then decided they wanted to do the task they were given the opportunity to do. So they wanted the tapes retrieved by Rkkody since Oscody was working with Mark and Sarah at that point. Both Rkkody and Oscody were entertaining exiting their vehicles anyway so why not leave the tapes with Mark and Sarah. So Rkkody copied the audio cassettes and began to digitize them and put them on CD’s and send them to libraries and people like myself.

So before Rkkody exited he gave the audio masters to Mark and Sarah and the ones he’d copied by that time were in Carlan’s hands as Carlan was working with him to do all aspects of the dissemination task. By the way the dissemination task was intended to be done by all believers in TI and DO to show the Next Level we wanted to work for them. Mark and Sarah are still attempting to take that task away from people. They said as much to Cathy and I in person in 2021, saying something like, “isn’t what we are doing to disseminate the information enough,” showing that they missed the whole point that new believers needed to rise to that occasion as shown in Jwnody’s document in the Heaven’s Gate Book, “Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure”.

Next where Mark includes the “tapes” in the Next Level Information they were supposed to disseminate, why is it that 1061 audio tapes were never disseminated hardly at all to anyone but Jhnody (Juan) who they sent some 80 audio cassettes to, telling him they were for “safe keeping”.

Then Jhnody kept asking for more tapes and Mark and Sarah finally over a years time sent him digitized audios – over 900 (that included what Rkkody had, that he had sent me in 1997). So when Jhnody realized they were going to be hidden away, knowing they were intended to be shared with the world, knowing that I had maintained a YouTube channel (3spm) for many years sharing tapes with people that Mark and Sarah didn’t attempt to stop at that time, he sent me a thumb drive containing over 900 of the digitized audios.

Mark and Sarah repeatedly call me a thief of those tapes yet they were gifted to me by Rkkody and Jhnody who both were named by DO to receive the tapes in Mark and Sarah’s Letter.

Where Mark says, “Our main task is disseminating the Next Level information to the world – from the website to the book, the tapes, and all that relates to it” that establishes that they are also talking about the audio tapes. Yet it’s been 25 years that the audio tapes have not been disseminated by them. Why many people ask. Many people think it’s because of money – they hope to make money with them somehow. I don’t think it’s really about money, though there could be some sense that if they exclusively have them they hold a stronger position with movie studios since apparently they are acting as check partners for Rio (Neody) to arrive at a movie deal. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is part of their desire to have all the intellectual property the group made in their exclusive possession. They have said things to Cathy and to me along the lines of their wanting to preserve the information for 200 years. They told me and those on one of my live streams (that I have as evidence) that included Cathy before I knew her personally and also later when Cathy and I met with them in November of 2021 that they intended on putting all the audio tapes on Vimeo (where they have a channel with the Beyond Human Video Tapes posted). They said they would do this by March 25, 2022. Mark said that this wasn’t going to happen unless Carlan and I both gave them all the audio tapes we had and agreed to not disseminate them because then they would be the exclusive disseminators of them via Vimeo. At our face to face meeting in Nov 2021 I asked them what was special about that date and they said it was very special to them, that’s all I recall.

There was no way in the world that Carlan or I would give them any of the audio tapes we were given by Rkkody and Jhnody. So maybe they would say, that’s why they never posted the audios on Vimeo. However, I learned that they originally intended to use Vimeo because they didn’t think someone could download them from there. But that Mark discovered that using an Apple application they could be downloaded. I don’t know if that was why they didn’t post them there.

However I could never go along with that, as what happens when the site is down, no one has access to the tapes? Mark and Sarah talk about preserving them for 200 years but what better way to really preserve them than by putting them in as many hands as possible. Furthermore what’s the use of preserving them for 200 years if no one can hear them until then. For several years Mark and Sarah have sent someone who asked for the audios one audio at a time that had a limited time span that could be downloaded and couldn’t be saved on the person’s computer or phone (that I was aware of). Before I met Cathy in person, she had to ask for the same tape multiple times because the time ran out or her cell phone died so lost the link.

These tapes average over an hour each and there are 1061 of them according to Mark. Some are hard to hear and those are some of the first ones Mark and Sarah send to people which in an of itself can discourage them from listening to others. People aren’t given the tape log so they can choose which tapes they want to listen to. When someone receives tape number one they can ask them for tape number two. At that rate it would take many years to hear all the tapes. Plus what TI and DO talk about isn’t at all easy to hear and even harder to digest as we all have Influences that can balk at who they say they are and why they are hear and what is required to graduate Their Classroom and why the requirements are so steep. I was present for over 700 of the meetings and yet when I listen to them again, I realize how much I missed and how much there still was for me to gain from them. So keeping them from people makes no sense unless one fears the heat of being seen as a representative of what the mainstream media refers to as a dangerous suicide cult leader.

Mark and Sarah have been attempting to legitimize TI and DO’s teachings as becoming a new age religion. Do talked a bit about that in audio tape 331, if I recall but perhaps in another. I had felt that before I heard DO say it, perhaps from being present during that meeting it stayed in my subconscious. What I was consciously seeing was the language they were using in the email interviews they would give over the years. Like when they said, there is no Heaven or Hell to one interviewer. I could see saying that because of TI and DO’s interpretation of those terms being somewhat different than the other religions depictions of those words. And perhaps they did say more about it in those emails and the publisher didn’t use it all, but I’ve seen a lot of evidence that Mark and Sarah say very little and in my opinion assume a great deal and think they know so much while showing that they have forgotten a great deal. We all lose some of what we once gained when we dropped out of the Group but then we lose even more if we don’t “use” what we still have and attempt to add to what we once had by listening to tapes, and reading their book, etc. I don’t know if they ever listen to much as I know from first hand experience that influences don’t want us to do so as it becomes painful to see what we lost by dropping out.

The next sentence says more, “It is our firm belief that the Class bequeathed their teachings to us in the way they wanted them to be, without edits or spotlights placed on individuals left behind.”

All this so called eloquent language. There was no “bequeathed”. They were supposed to retrieve the contents of storage and divide the items of value among those who were inclined to disseminate Their Information. They, Rkkody and Jhnody were given the website that contains the book. Jhnody and Rkkody were also sent information directly by DO that Mark and Sarah didn’t get and that wasn’t in Storage. Oscody was given the Book to publish and register in the Library of Congress. Somehow Mark and Sarah took that task from him. Rkkody was given the codes to make all the programming changes to the Heaven’s Gate various websites. Jhnody was given the original masters of the Beyond Human video series of 12 tapes close to 13 hours in total. As I’ve shown Rkkody and Oscody retrieved the audio tapes. Mark and Sarah told Cathy and I they went to Storage and the locks were on the door but Rkkody says in his manuscript that Oscody went to storage and discovered the locks were put on Storage. Mark and Sarah told Cathy and I that the reason they didn’t go to Storage was because they had to help authorities by going to help them identify the bodies. Yet every member as I understand it had on their person some form of legal Identification including drivers licenses, passports for many.

What we learned subsequently was that all Mark and Sarah did was send authorities in San Diego a list of the names of students, something they had received from DO and Crew. Why then didn’t they go to Storage to retrieve the “items of value…”? There is much circumstantial evidence that Rkkody’s manuscript is the most accurate of what happened as I have stated before. They were afraid and that fear was greater than their trust that TI, DO and Crew would protect them. I believe that’s also why they still won’t show their faces to the media and is why they don’t want people to have TI and DO’s information and treat it seriously. They still don’t trust in DO. They harp on “security” but at this point it’s blown way out of proportion because though we do strive to be careful in certain ways, TI and DO and Crew will help us through the rough spots of disseminating their information.

Finally, there is this little statement that says, “…the Class bequeathed their teachings to us in the way they wanted them to be, without edits or spotlights placed on individuals left behind.”

“…without edits or spotlights placed on individuals left behind.”

This appears to say a great deal to me though perhaps I am wrong in looking between the lines but perhaps I am seeing what they may be hiding.

Years ago, given that Mark and Sarah wouldn’t send me the audio tapes they had digitized as I never wanted the actual cassettes, saying it was because I would share them with others, I asked them in an email whether the reason they didn’t want anyone to have those audios was because of how it could be found in them the explanation of their being instructed to leave the Class for not wanting to follow procedures surrounding the lesson step entitled, “I Could be wrong”. Mark wrote to me which I still have the proof of that said “that never crossed our minds” and that “…you should restrain such wonderings” (paraphrased). But why should I restrain my wondering. After all wouldn’t anyone want to know why they were speaking out of both sides of their mouth by saying they wanted to spread the information around the world while holding back over 1000 hours of audio tapes?

After all by that point, I had followed an email interview they gave to Gizmodo I believe it was (that is posted on my blog, Sawyerhg.wordpress.com) where they were asked why they left the group and their response was something along the lines of, “to do this task” which was a huge lie and there is a great deal of evidence in the audio tapes of DO talking about how he had to instruct them to leave if they didn’t want to follow procedures. I didn’t even know about the many clips where DO addresses them until years after this Gizmodo interview had been published.

Also before I knew of all the audio tape clips with DO talking about how they ceased to look to his Mind but were satisfied looking to one another’s minds, had become a couple and had refused tasks DO offered to them because of not wanting to change anything about their comfort level outside the Classroom or circumstances, I watched a YouTube video of an email interview where they said according to the host, when asked about their holding back the audio tapes, that they wouldn’t be released until all those spoken about in the tapes were deceased (perhaps something about doing so in respect for their families, might have been part of it). The host I believe was, Dr. Todd Grande, but I haven’t been able to find that interview yet. When I heard that I had no real interest in talking much about Mark and Sarah. I was content we had the audio tapes TI, DO and Crew wanted us to have and that if They wanted us to have more, they would arrange it somehow, which they did I believe by compelling Mark and Sarah to send them to Jhnody.

So in that light who are those students, in this case former students who are spoken of in the audios that are not yet deceased? There are a number but Mark and Sarah certainly are included. Plus what kind of criteria is that for not providing TI and DO’s information to the public. Are they claiming to be servants of TI and DO or not. Is their judgment so correct to what TI and DO would do now. They seem to think so, which is very sad. It’s one thing to be confident with actually having significant proof of how TI and DO thought about a subject and another thing altogether to use our own minds to be confident about what TI and DO might say and do. Isn’t that attitude telling with the reason they were sent out of the Classroom. They didn’t know how they could be wrong. They had become confident in their own opinions, even seeing or picking and choosing minor things TI and DO said as their justification for doing whatever they wanted with the information.

Niklas:

Do you have any human goals you are currently working towards?

49. Mark:

– We are just making due. Our main goal right now is to get done with this interview; it is just a few sentences short of The Greatest Story Ever Told, and that ran for over four hours. Things are different with Ti, Do, and the Group gone, but Srfody and I do what we can to evolve in the ways of the Next Level. We have grown together to become the longest-lasting partnership in the history of the Class. The Next Level knows what they are doing.

49. Sawyer:

“Just making due”. Isn’t filing a lawsuit against me, Cathy and Carlan (Crlody) something they are “working towards,” as asked by the host?

Look at their ego acting as if this interview was “a few sentences short of The Greatest Story Ever Told, and that ran for over four hours”. That film was about Jesus. They are seeking to stop disciples of the same Soul who was in Jesus from sharing what he said in some 1061 audio tapes. Marks responses in this interview is not even short of one of the greatest pack of lies and deceit and manipulative innuendo that has been told in a long time, perhaps alongside how the organized church replaced Jesus with Paul of Tarsus who talked about Jesus as if he knew when he never knew much of his Mind. Paul showed some signs of wanting to be a student of Jesus’ teachings but he just didn’t know a lot about those teachings so fell prey to the Lower Forces trying to commandeer the Teachings of Jesus to distort and dilute them into what became the Christian religion.

Mark brags about being the so called “longest-lasting partnership in the history of the class” but they were booted out of the Class because among other things DO said they wanted a relationship with one another. They were sent out in 1987. From that point on they were not in the Class so how can they be the longest lasting partnership in a group they were no longer a part of.

DO still wanted them to not reject the entire Next Level and go further and further away from Their Minds, so he kept offering them tasks and finally at their departure had offered them the tasks they were given by DO and the most important parts of those tasks they have twisted to doing their own way which is contrary to what DO’s wishes were but like the Next Level Older Member that DO is, made it all into a positive to show us what can happen to even someone who feels they are a believer. They can even believe DO was off track in ways and yet not allow themselves to even see how they are saying that (like in this interview), while thinking they love TI and DO and as they mutate Their teachings into a new age religion far afield from what was taught by TI and DO.

I had to do my best to set the record straight as I know how to do.

I really do not enjoy surfacing Mark and/or Sarah’s misinformation propagation, but they give me no choice. They could have just left me along to play audio tapes on my YouTube channel and send people the information, all freely. They could have made them all available to me and anyone who wanted to disseminate them. But they chose not to so now I and Cathy and Carlan (and so some degree Jhnody) must seek to win this lawsuit for the Freedom of Information about all the truth about what exactly TI and DO taught and demonstrated to the world over 24+ years.

It’s not over until TI and DO and Crew decide to advance the recycling. Anyone can appeal to TI and DO and ask them for service and seek to put it into motion as they help those see what shape it can take.

sawyer
sawcat575@gmail.com
http://www.youtube.com/3spm
http://www.facebook.com/sawyer.heavensgate
http://www.sawyerhg.wordpress.com

Upvoted.com interview with heavensgate.com webmasters and sawyers claims of misinformation

Here is a link to an interview the Heavensgate.com webmasters I’m calling M and S gave to upvoted.com. Following the link I included my responses. Those responses should be on the web site as well. In my responses I say certain things M and S said or didn’t say were misleading. I am not implying they intended to mislead, but that sort of thing can I believe begin to slip in, so I hope if they read this they can take it as what might hopefully be helpful criticism and I am open to hearing any criticisms of what I say from them or anyone for that matter and I will see if the “shoe fits”.

https://upvoted.com/2015/10/03/an-interview-with-the-heavens-gate-webmaster-meet-telah-61/

Part One of three of response to M and S interview:

Thank you to the writer and editor for sticking to the facts that have been increasingly distorted as we speak. However, as to the answers to your questions I would like to provide you with my version as I joined Ti and Do from the same meeting in Waldport, Oregon as the ones you interviewed in September of 1975 and was in Ti and Do’s classroom with them until they were told to leave the classroom in 1987 and can be seen in my youth in 3 of the “Beyond Human – The Last Call” video tapes Do had us make in 1992 and was aware of some of the communications with these two in 1993-4 that included offering them a return to the class option if they were willing to abide by the lesson step entitled, “I could be wrong” that they didn’t want to abide by and became the reason they were told to leave. Then I was assigned to be an overseer with my partner of one of the four groups we broke into to bring Ti and Do’s information to the public in a face to face way, for the second time in 19 years throughout the U.S. that began on 01/01/94 and ended in September of that same year which is when all those who were still committed members to include new members were informed by Do that “we might have to exit our vehicle by our own hand”.

We got back to California from where we ended up in Massachusetts and Do told us about the plan to drink a drug mixture to exit our vehicles and went one by one around the room of about 40 something students asking each if they had any reservations. Some did and left the next day or two after that, still in September of 1994. I had no reservations but I was not the person I had been for 18 years before that. It’s a long story that I have made public on my blog http://www.sawyerhg.wordpress.com and my youtube channel: 3spm and other places, but the way I fell was by starting to masturbate, not having even thought about it before that, which was a response to having the ego to ask Ti who was outside her vehicle, but who Do told us we could talk to directly, for a more difficult task like Do had. In other words, she took me for what I asked for and sent me a “booger” (we called our assigned advasaries (satans meaning)) a bigger one than I had been assigned, one that perhaps Do dealt with that I seemed to have no power to resist or even want to resist or even to ask help to resist. Here I had been an overseer in many assignments over the years and then of a group and I was a primary speaker at the 1994 meetings in about a dozen big cities in the U.S., did radio, TV and print media interviews at that time while breaking the biggest rules in the group that were grounds to be asked or told to leave – that of giving into sensuality and then the second biggest reason to be asked or told to leave the group – that of hiding it – being deceitful by not surfacing my “major slippage” (what in the archaic terms would be a sin). Some of my fellow students looked upon me as a good example of Next Level behaviors and ways.

I was often assigned by Do to be a helper to others who were having various difficulties in their conquering of the influences that they needed to gain strength of mind by working against giving into. Do saw my separateness a week or so after I began to fall and asked me what was going on and I spilled my gut to him and he asked me what I wanted to do and I said, I need to expose it to the group which I did and Do said sometimes failure is the hardest lesson to rise above. So I was taken off of the overseer task but then a week or two later Do asked me to perform another overseer task and I told him I couldn’t as I’d be a hypocrite, so he asked me what I wanted to do and I said, “I guess I have to leave”. He replied, “you want to get more objective.” He had me pass the phone to another student and he told her I was leaving and told her to tell the others not to try to talk me out of it because I knew what I was doing. Later Do asked me where I wanted to go and I said I was thinking of taking a bicycle and riding it east. He suggested going to stay with these two in this interview and had the pursers give me $600.00 cash and bought me a plane ticket to Arizona. I was actually relieved to leave, not because there was any abuses or things I wanted to do that I couldn’t do in the group. I had no desires to do anything else. I just wasn’t face with my own hypocrisy.

It took me ten years to know why I left as I’ve stated and in retrospect I see so many signs of how I though of myself as special, stemming from being a youngster and seeing all those Jesus movies that depicted him as a hero. I wanted to be that hero yet I didn’t have a clue what that kind of hero would encounter and how they would never think of themselves in that way. It was a human egotistical way of seeking to be an elevated being others would look up to. I still see that influence with me at times but his characteristics are quite apparent though it’s easy for that Luciferian space alien fallen angel mind to creep in and especially when one has begun a relationship with the same living beings who are the chief administrators of garden earth and who I can offer proof of to anyone who dares to look into, but that is not important to me for anyone else to see value in because I was given another chance after they left to conquer my boogers.

Now I can pick apart a lot of what these two said but three points stand out in addition to not talking about why they were left behind. One is calling oneself by the name of Telah, when it’s clear that abbreviation means, “The Evolutionary Level Above Human”. That would be equivilent to taking the name, “Kingdom of God” or Kingdom of Heaven”, which really more accurately would be translated to “Kingdom of Deities” at the least and “Kingdom in the literal heavens (sky to outerspace elevated areas)”. How can one or two people have one name that represents a Kingdom of Older Members that includes the Chief of Chiefs, the Oldest Member of the Next Level? When I saw that it blew me away, not because it’s a name but because that seems to me to be the same booger who overcame me and my vehicle with myself, the reason he fell away and after being given many opportunities to change went more and more against his Older Members to where he became imprisoned on earth, though useful as a catalyst to challenge upcoming graduates.

Obscurity can have it’s place to try to protect us from those that might do us harm when we have done nothing wrong against the Creators of our world, the Next Level Older Members. But why not be straight forward and say, “my name is “M” and my partners name is “S” for instance or whatever names they choose. Both of them are 61 and one is male and the other is female. When someone like us is doing anything public taking names we weren’t born with is a good thing that Ti and Do taught us, because we don’t want to be interfered with and we don’t want our vehicles families to be adversely affected by our choices when we know there will be some who will hate us.

Then to say “There is no heaven or hell, only an endless cycle of reincarnation” is totally against what Ti and Do taught and anyone can easily prove it by many things Ti and Do and Crew said that you can find posted on heavensgate.com. This is the slant that booger or the equivilent booger puts on the truth to present a facsimile, because Luci for instance, according to Ti and Do resents the Next Level for imprisoning him on earth and will do anything he can do to strike back at the Next Level and plus he needs “souls” and compatible vehicles to his thinking to be his associates.

Part Two of three of response to M and S interview:

Do said the earth is going to be spaded, recycled. He said the earth itself is still a good planet but that the current civilization have become infested by the weeds, what Jesus called “tares” that are actually taking one another out as we speak, the reason we will see more and more corruption and killing in the U.S. from within, because the Heaven’s Gate graduates have exited, so the environment is no longer protected for their sakes and they also turn up the heat, the truth that forces each of us to become exactly what we are. If we thought nasty thoughts – thoughts about doing harm to others, now they can hardly contain themselves to act those thoughts out. And the alchemist meds many are addicted to compound the issues.

No heaven? That sounds like John Lennon, “imagine there’s no heaven, easy if you try” – well I know a friend of a channeler of John Lennon and she says he says the same things now. That’s because the mindset we die with we continue to act out and bring as an influence to others. Now of course we should be civilized enough to not kill one another, to have peace in the way we treat one another. That is the way of the Next Level members to be kind and considerate but that is a toddler lesson step – “thou shall not kill”. Jesus updated that to “turn the other cheek” so that was great that Mahatma Ghandi did and Martin Luther King did and others. But the overall task was to “love the lord god with all your heart all your mind, all your soul and all your strength” that these other lesson steps would lead up to. Saying there is no heaven is like saying, “imagine there’s no planets, no sun above us, above us only nothingness”. The reason turning the other cheek is a lesson step because when one loses their vehicle adhering to a Next Level lesson step as that, means They take that Mind/Spirit into one of their spacecrafts and give it a new task and even a new vehicle because it is the “Mind/Spirit” that is what the garden produces for the Next Level. They don’t need us but it’s their joy to offer what they know they have that is very, very real but it’s a place of work that’s a hoot to be a part of.

No Hell? Hell as it’s used in Revelations 6:8, a huge verse to understand among current events comes from the greek “hades” which is also seen as the equivilent to Pluto. Hell in it’s figurative definition is a place of no return having no longer the potential to become a member of the Next Level. Hades is the Greek god of the under world – It was interesting when the New Horizons spacecraft flew by Pluto this past July and took pictures that showed Pluto to be very much like earth minus the oceans. It has a blue atmosphere, geysers, red ice mountains, deep caverns, a huge white smooth spot and 4 rectangular shaped 200 mile wide black spots that are equidistantly spaced from one another so they look like 4 black piano keys. This is most intersting in light of the movie script Ti and Do directed in 1982 that they said was “fiction based on the truth” where Pluto was a spacecraft that inside it had a scale living model of the earth with observatins decks and stationary spacecrafts at each of four corners. (The four winds?) And they said on it’s north pole that by the way would face away from us as Pluto is on it’s side, there was a huge circular louvered door that would open and close to allow spacecrafts to come and go from. I don’t know if the implication comes across.

And speaking of that Rev 6:8 verse where there is a “green horse” depicted, green actually comes from the greek chloros like chlorine the green powder that kills bacteria (weeds) and represents “harvest green” and the Dawn spacecraft is actually as we speak I believe still orbiting dwarf planet Ceres, named after the roman goddess of the harvest who is the same greek goddess Demeter. I say Do was the Rev 6:2 one sitting on his white horse, the vehicle he made pure but also is seen as white skinned while that was followed by G.W. Bush as red horse a Luciferian space alien is sitting on that brings endless war and that was followed by the black horse Obama a Luciferian was sitting on whose task was to try to ride herd the two beasts (the U.S. and the E.U.) involving the financial crisis that involved the stock market’s commodities prices of “wheat and barley” with lots to say about all this leading up to the next US beast president who will in many ways be GREEN.

I’ve got no beef with M and S actually. We learned to deal with criticism – to wear the shoe if we examine it and it fits. If it doesn’t fit, don’t wear it.

There is no group anymore, like M and S said and suicide never was a solution. In fact one of the classmembers wrote a paper saying that killing one’s vehicle to escape difficult lessons is the real waste as we need our vehicles to learn our lessons. The human kingdom was created as a stepping stone into the Next Level. Suicide is separating ourselves from the Next Level creators of it all because then we won’t be given further opportunities to live both in a human vehicle at the next classroom with an incarnate Older Member which will not then become the opportunity to graduate into the Level Above Human where real life really begins because we are then no longer temporary plant lifeforms. But the formula to please the Older Member which is like pleasing one’s professor, is to “give our life”. How, when and where is up to us but a huge step in that direction in this life is to choose to put yourself in the Next Levels hands, asking to become one of their upcoming students and trusting they will help us separate from our humanness in a way we can handle. There is no pie in the sky. We need to show them we mean business by working for them. That work at this time is to “stand for Ti and Do”, study and believe in all they said and did. We are not going to necessarily understand everything but it will come in time. Events will be helping us towards this kind of choice of who to make our master. We are all going to lose our vehicles eventually. It’s a matter of whose service we are in when we lose our vehicle. Since you all have heard about Ti and Do you are on the spot but each is judged according to what they were given whether they heard about Ti and Do or not.

May Ti and Do’s force be with you all, but you’ve got to ask them for it if you want it.

Part Three of three of response to M and S interview:

This is also a misleading thing to say, “In the mid-’90s, we served as their communication center, which we still do today.” Maybe it’s the way I read it as implying they receive current communication from Ti and Do and Crew and then distribute that to others, which is not the case. They have the task to maintain the web site and respond to queries but anyone who distributes Ti and Do’s information is also then a communication “center”. One should ask them if they are the communication center how come after all these years they don’t provide the hundreds of audio meeting tapes Ti and Do made for the student body from 1982 to 1997. We actually do have about 218 of these but it was against their will that we have them, a long story I don’t care to get into. I have most of the communications they received a short time before the group left because they didn’t want the task at first so turned it over to another dropout believer named rkkody who later layed down his life but not before he made digital copies of 200 or so of the tapes and sent them to people, me included.

Saying 8 were “left behind” is misleading too. All who didn’t leave were dropouts. We left the group. They didn’t leave us until it was clear we didn’t want to be with them. There were zero left behind to carry out tasks but it’s the Next Level way to take advantage of those that still want to serve, even if they can’t make the grade of being in the classroom. We are seeing how the truth becomes distorted in seemingly little ways to where even those who are doing the distortion don’t recognize it necessarily or ignore or think it’s not important to be real wordy about.

I don’t know where the number 8 and 4 came from. But where does the number start and stop. There were about 100 who were students in 1976 when meetings were called to a hault by Ti saying “the harvest is closed”. Ti and Do sent 19 of those out of the group saying they weren’t ready telling the remaining group they “made the first cut”. By 1978 there were no more than 60 original “odys”. That name extension represented those who Ti and Do said were “adopted”. By 1993 that number was down to 24, I suspect mostly representing the prophecy of the 24 elders. Then some who had left were given the option to return and it rose to around 32 that didn’t include M and S. A few more rejoined in 1994 and maybe a dozen new members joined in 1994 but then I fell away as did a few other rejoiners and some of the new ones left to end up with the 38. So I would guess at about 70 total who took a stab at graduating which is interesting in the fact that Jesus had 70 to 82 to 90 something students, counting some of the female disciples we know about.

When M and So were asked, “Where are your directives coming from? Were they left behind for you by leadership prior to their journey?” and they said, “From the Next Level. They left very specific instructions.” that to me is also misleading. Why not say, most of the communications were from Do’s “helpers” that included Lvvody, Jnnody, Lggody and Jwnody and perhaps others like Sngody and Evnody or to keep it short by “Do’s crew of students”. That’s like a politician being asked who voted on the bill and they say, “congress”. I know M told me Do also talked to them but I know the letters that were their primary communication were signed by “helpers” or “pursers” if I recall correctly.

When M and So were asked, “What’s the next step for you? For Heaven’s Gate?” and they answered, “We are to take care of this task. We don’t know when we will rejoin them.” may be assuming a lot. I don’t know if any of the dropouts have it made. Do spoke about “three types of people who would go with them” when the rest are recycled. Primary that included those who had sufficiently completed their metamorphosis (overcoming of humanness) as he referred to the 38 as qualifying. The second type were those who began their metamorphosis but didn’t have the strength to sufficiently complete it to receive significant Next Level service so would have to return to the human kingdom after the recycling to finish. The third group are those who never hear about Ti and Do but are separating from the world in their own way. It seems apparent that we who dropped out who still believe would have to be included in the second type but whether we are satisfactorily “separating from our humanness” and making “significant changes” as Do said as well and “standing for Ti and Do and accepting the consequences” another description of all the types relative to what they were given as Jesus also said was the criteria is frankly not for us to know. After all just like we see in Christianity and Jesus talked about, many will say, “Lord Lord, we prophecy in your name….” but he said he doesn’t know them. Saying the words is a small part and can even morph to “taking the name of the lord in vain”.

When M and S said, “They periodically come down to this planet to check in on this civilizations development.” – Sure that’s true but “check development” is one heck of a lackadaisical image. They are consciously working like crazy doing all things that it takes to bring a group of souls to graduation. Nothing happens by itself when it comes to some souls choosing to grow towards graduation. They are intricately involved with “tagging” human vehicles they plan to “take over” for their task. Before that they work on the human kingdom to produce vehicles that can be a “match” for returning Souls to take over. They work with all levels of life. Ti and Do said it was move up time for all levels of life.

On the question; “I found the statement against suicide on the website fascinating. Why did Heaven’s Gate decide to put this statement out there?”

They knew suicide was what many or even most humans would call what they did, but they knew that really wasn’t accurate in their case but it goes to understanding what LIFE really is – all from the perspective of the Creators in the Level Above Human, which is apparent in the way Jesus also defined life as being (existing) in his Older Members Kingdom, in that record contextually, with and in service to his “Father (Older Member) in the literal heavens (outer space dwelling places)”. Thus death is the opposite – not being in the literal Kingdom in the heavens with one’s Older Members.

Of course if one doesn’t believe in any of this then none of this makes sense. But Ti and Do and Crew of students believed in it 100% and most of the students had been with Ti and Do since 1975 when they were ready to give their life then because they felt like they recognized the truth of what Ti and Do said.

Ti and Do considered every way they might return and every way their students might go to the Next Level, thinking of it in a number of ways, at first thinking they and their students would go back with their human physical bodies.

Even in their last days in those bodies they tried to be prepared for Ti (who was already outside her human body since 1985) to take them with their physical bodies if that was her choice. That’s why they packed a small travel bag with a change of clothes and had their passports and a little money – $5.75 – the amount that came from what Samuel Clemmons writing as Mark Twain said was the fare to ride the tail of Halley’s comet to heaven. He wrote that and produced a short movie that Edison actually filmed called “Captain Stormfields trip to heaven”. We also always had a procedure when leaving our “craft” (what we called the house we lived in) to take $5.00 in case of emergency for a phone call for instance. That’s what I told some reporters the $5.75 probably was which I later learned was wrong.

The companion that was filmed by the Hawaii and a Japanese observatory proven to not be a star in the background of the pic of Hale Bopp wasn’t the reason they chose to exit at that time as I believe your article stated. They even said this on the heaven’s gate web site. They said that the comet was the sign or marker they had been waiting for that told them when to exit.

By that time they had determined that humans against them were not going to do them in the way humans did to Jesus and his disciples.  They also had examined buying a boat and going into the sea to see if the Next Level would pick them up following seeing the cocoon movie and at that time considered exiting by sinking the boat if we weren’t picked up but Do nixed that idea though he did buy a boat we had docked in the Houston area for a while.

In 1989 or so Do instigated a fast on air. We were living outdoors at that time again in the Arizona desert just west of Phoenix. We had a bunch of trailers and two rows of tents that were all connected to one another to make two corridors. We had generators for lights and had two large satellite dishes and were watching all the news we could get from feeds and the evangelicals as we had been considering going public again as “who we are” as the return of the Father, Jesus and his students as promised. But Do wasn’t sure about doing another public mission so off into the desert we went and after one day on air Do changed the fast to add water. 12 days later Do stopped the fast.  I had been ready to curl up in bed and die then, though I learned that some weren’t thinking that was part of what we might do.

So we moved closer to Yuma with our camp and Do felt like we were to wait for a pickup, which was the second time we’d scheduled a specific day for pickup the first scheduled by Ti in about 1980. At that time, the pickup didn’t happen and Ti told Do she felt like she had “egg on her face”, but it didn’t change anything and interestingly some left after that as it had been 5 years since the group formed. In 1975 some students pressured Ti and Do for how long before they would leave. They always thought in terms of “months”. Reluctantly Ti said, “no more than 5 years” which she later regretted saying. But it didn’t phase their core students that there was no pickup and there was no pickup when Do scheduled it either and that didn’t phase the core students either.

Do also paid people to leave the class if they were only staying because it was more comfortable than trying to survive in what Ti called the “real world”. They knew they were creating a type of experimental world for us.

Before that there were two times that Ti and Do encouraged all of us to pay a visit to anyone in the world who had anxiety about us still as we had learned about a network of parents and siblings of our vehicles looking for us to include private investigators.

Most all of us flew somewhere in the U.S. for a weekend with our vehicle’s family. From that, one decided he wanted to leave the group. He returned and spoke with Do about it and I was assigned to partner with him and I don’t recall having much to report to Do. It wasn’t like I was a spy but if something occurred to me to talk about Do wanted to know about it.

So when we had no problems from humans who heard and saw us in our 1994 public meeting/media schedule all over the U.S. no matter how boldly we made the posters to say, it was the same one who was in the vehicle Jesus returned, Do felt like the only option remaining was to self exit as he couldn’t imagine waiting for each member to grow old and die to exit that way.

At one point in about 1990 Do contracted rocky mountain spotted fever and told some of us who visited him he knew that he could leave his vehicle then and that he asked Ti (who was outside her vehicle then) but Do knew was at times very close to him and at other times not so close, (however she might have accomplished that). He said, Ti said he could exit if he wanted to. But Do felt like he couldn’t abandon his task with the students.

A couple years before that he said to the students, “what if I’m not from the Next Level but am a well intended human? Would you all still want to be with me?”. I couldn’t imagine it. Some of the other students were quick to say it didn’t matter to them. I don’t think I knew what to think about it but it didn’t phase me to entertain the question.

In 1993 when the 90 men women and children of the Branch Davidians were murdered by the ATF/FBI I was sitting in Do’s craft with lvvody and jnnody and srrody (my partner at the time) and watching the story live on television. Do and all of us were shocked by it. Do later wondered aloud whether his students would be so dedicated to die for what they believed in, though he didn’t agree with David Koresh at all. It also made him consider if we might exit by provoking the government by having a gun. That was a test to hear but it made me wonder how dedicated was I. I put it on the back burner until it became a reality. I didn’t have a problem with it as I knew we wouldn’t actually try to harm anyone.

In 1996 they were building an earthship house (out of tires) on a property they bought southeast of Albuquerque and they had at least one rifle that strody (then a grey haired woman in her 60’s) did some target shooting of as they were still wondering if they might exit in that way.

They left that gun in storage.

Then in 1995 Rio reported that they were near Tucson and one night 3 students saw two small 4 ft tall looking white beings in the craft. They each saw these two from a different angle. Three other students including Rio felt they dreamed about these two beings in the craft. One report was they were standing by one students bunk where they were sleeping and felt they were helping her. That next morning Do and the overseers were all really smiling a lot and Do felt it was the visit he was hoping the students would raise their vibrations to be able to see.

I equate that with Jesus being visited by two beings of that similar description where three students saw them. That was called the “transfiguration”. Ti and Do felt that was when Jesus had completed changing over his body into a next level body inside.

Ti said early on that you don’t have to die to go to the Next Level. In that context “die” referred to exiting one’s human vehicle, but one does have to “change over” into a Member of the Next Level to go without dropping the vehicle as evidenced in the records by Enoch, Moses and Elijah and in a different context Jesus as his vehicle was healed from it’s dead condition and then he demonstrated taking that same body that was still physical but had new functions into the spacecraft cloaked by the clouds. He said, “I am not a spirit… a spirit doesn’t have flesh and bones”. He ate with them. He let them touch his body and see the remnant of the wounds. And yet he could change his vibrations so that he was invisible to them which one can imagine being like a chameleon against the invisible but very real atmosphere of our  human environment.

Ti and Do initially taught and this never changed, that the human condition was like a caterpillar world and how a caterpillar had the capacity in it to build itself a cocoon to then put all it’s energy into the chrysalis condition which is equivilent to a human being separated from their human world as Jesus and Ti and Do’s students were required to do to be students which meant leaving all that constituted their life at that time – their family, house, career goals, even likes and dislikes to put all their energy into the “process” that was actually the “christing” process as a Christ was someone who “overcame the human world”. If you actually break it down it is an “anointed one” where anointing was the process of “pressing” the oil from the olive. Thus the olive is the human vehicle and the press is putting pressure to extract Next Level Mind through it’s usage. Mind is synonymous with “spirit”. The Next Level literally starts this process by giving select humans (many of them) what is actually a seed called a soul. Do called it a “pocket” or a “container” that wasn’t just a container. It was a smart container in that in had with it a set of programs that provided an interface to other Next Level Members. There are different forms of this container, aka a “chip” as in computer chip. Do said to envision this “soul” one would see the human body as a glass vase that had one balloon extending out of it from the top of the vase that was the container for human mind. When a human is given a “soul container” the vase has a second balloon extending out of it. The second container can only contain Next Level quality Mind. I am only remembering now how Ti used to often say about mixing Next Level and human behaviors and ways as “Oil and water don’t mix”. That is interesting because Jesus compared Water with the human being saying to his students they needed to be “born again of water” in order to be born of spirit/mind that we also know was related to oil.

I suspect Do took seeing those two beings in the craft as confirmation that his plan of exit was approved. I don’t know that and have nothing more to go on so could be wrong about that.

Do told the class he felt those who dreamed it had woke up and were told to go back to sleep.

Interestingly even seeing/dreaming that as the six did, didn’t stop a couple of the new students from the 1994 meetings from choosing to leave the class and one was Rio. He was the one who they sent the fedx that led to his going to their craft to discover their deceased vehicles and who was on the cover of people magazine after that.  Last I heard from him he said he was done with disseminating Ti and Do’s info following the book he published entitled “Beyond Human Mind”.

All this thinking was combined with knowing how Jesus had spoken about laying down one’s life as the greatest way to show love, also saying, “no man takes it (my life) from me – I have the power to lay it down and the power to take it back up again”.

So did Jesus commit suicide even though the high priests and government were the instruments. He chose to turn himself into those who he knew from many evidences wanted to kill him because he was causing their followers to think differently.

Ti and Do were not against euthanasia. They felt if someone was too sick to take advantage of life – to make choices to learn lessons and grow from them then they should be allowed to end their own life.

This idea that suicide is a mortal sin is a fabrication. The law to not kill another human was just that for a human to not kill another human. It had nothing to do with oneself though they were not in favor of suicide to escape dealing with difficult lessons, which is really a big part of the real meaning of suicide. I someone choose to run in front of another to take a bullet they are considered a hero, but if one chooses to self stimulate exit for their idea of God’s it’s fanaticism.

Ti’s exit by dying as Revelations 12 says of her (the woman) – “the earth opened up it’s mouth” to take her, which was a way people had spoke about going to the grave, I believe did introduce Do to considering how they might all exit.

Even in 1992 I was in Do’s quarters in his craft as I was helping move things into a truck as we were moving to another craft, I saw the book by the Hemlock society that is all about ways to kill oneself. Soon after that it became part of the student library though I don’t recall ever talking about it.

As they said, it was the timing of the hale bopp comet with the spring solstice, and ascension time that was their sign to go home by exiting their vehicles. The ascension did occur. It was a spirit birth, that’s unseen by human eyes except by understanding it which remains our choice.

Thus after all they went through, they felt called home by Ti regardless of whether the reported companion was there or not. Had then experienced all that and then chose not to follow through would be like saying “no” to Ti because at that point for them it was time to go so they could get on with the next part of the program.

That’s why I insist it was voluntary for them.

I  have been approached by at least 3 people who told me they believed in Ti and Do and wanted to exit because they were miserable in this corrupt world. I told them they could be making a huge mistake. They were trying to escape learning their lessons. We need these vehicles to learn our lessons through. Do left the option open but said anyone who feels to do that should go to the desert southwest and scream to their heavenly Father to know whether that is right for them.

As I was re-awakening, that included many dreams with Ti and Do and certain classmates helping me with, because I must have needed that help, I got up the courage to ask Do if I should prepare my vehicle to lay down my vehicle as they did. He came to me as clear as a bell the same night and said, “you need to give your life”. So that’s what I am attempting to do and am looking to them for help in each step.

M and S were asked, “Why do you choose to keep the Heaven’s Gate website up and running?” M and S response: “The information must be available to mankind, in preparation for their return.”

Yes, available, but NOT in preparation for their return, though there is a vague truth to that. It’s for NOW – for people now who come to their information and want to know more because the Next Level isn’t done. To not talk about this is denying Ti and Do’s intention all along. For instance why put out a statement, “Last Chance to Evacuate Earth Before It’s Recycled”, a video Do made in September of 1996 that talks about “3 types of individuals” who can go with them, if it didn’t apply immediately, where he also talked about those in type 3 never having heard about Ti and Do? That means even if someone doesn’t ever see the heavensgate.com web site or anything about Ti and Do, they can still qualify to “go with them”.

Now where it is correct to say, “when they return” relates to the records that Ti and Do said “In the seventh closeness… (they said they as the Two Witnesses were the sixth closeness) would be the “completion of the final prophecies in John’s Book of Revelation” adding, “The one who was Jesus will come in at close range (as soon as those who have chosen to change over do it) and receive the elect into his company, for they have been those he has nurtured since the beginning of this civilization.” This was in “A Statement Prepared by The Two” in the book by Hayden Hewes and Brad Steiger entitled, “UFO Missionaries Extraordinary” that was exclusively about Ti and Do and that Ti and Do gave them interviews for. Now this Statement seems to have been written before their first public meetings that began in North Hollywood (Isaiahs “valley of vision” he referred to as Jerusalem) and thus some aspects seem to have had updates, though can also be seen in different ways and especially when one examines the Revelations in this light as it does seem that Do is returning in the vehicle he changed over that was named Jesus 2000 years ago, after the Next Level is “done” with providing hints and clues of their reality to the human kingdom.

When they had their first private meeting in North Hollywood in the home of a leader of a spiritual meditation group in early April 1975 to a packed house there were “several dozen” that wanted to know more so came to another meeting the next night and wanted to leave all behind to follow them which Do reported in “’88 Update – The UFO Two and their Crew” they realized was “… adding up to “followers” – a big surprise and an idea not too welcome as far as Ti and Do were concerned!”. This is further evidence that Ti and Do at that stage in their awakening (a continuous planned but gradual process), before then didn’t think they were to have followers. They thought they would just share the information they were both receiving (separately) until they were “bumped off” as is one translation of the fate of the Two Witnesses in Revelations chapter 11, but turned out they were “shot down by the national press” – another valid interpretation I’ve written a great deal about on my blog.

I’m saying this because in Revelations 14 primarily there are two harvest periods depicted and in a number of places evidence that the first one was 42 students (38+4 later) and that they exited by “falling on their faces in service to deities” (Rev 11:16 and other places) while the second harvest was through the “winepress” that produces bloodshed. – in other words those who tell the truth and meet up with some who hate what they say and seek to kill them to stop them.

(now that hasn’t happened yet because that more or less begins starting with the 5th seal of revelations chapter 6 and we are just coming into the fourth seal with the next presidential election in the US.)

So it is true what M and S said about not knowing when that next return happens, but what was not said that needs to be said is that the criteria for who benefits from the content of the heaven’s gate web site and all the other ways in which people are coming to learn about Ti and Do IS preparation for their return but that prep starts now and will be seen the conclusion of during our normal lifetimes – (said in yet other places) which is getting close to that point, perhaps in the next decade or two even, where M and S made it sound (to me) like it was to become another religion that people would have time to study and make into careers and build cathedrals about – all Luciferian ways to dilute the truth though that the Next Level can make a positive out of.

New Media Lies about Heaven’s Gate debunked and Revelation 16:2 shows why increased violence in U.S.

There are two parts to this post. The first is in response to an article I provide the link to at the end of the first part that is one of most inaccurate stories I’ve seen in a real long time about Ti and Do’s Heaven’s Gate group, saying they deprived people of sleep to control them. The article by Alternet.org listed 5 cults. I don’t know about the other 4 cults but they started off with the Heaven’s Gate group that I do know about. It’s almost as if this article went out of their way to not get much of anything right. Even Wikipedia has more accuracy with the basics of the story of Ti and Do. I suspect the author has a beef with anyone who believes in anything outside what they can see with eyes or with a microscope or telescope and that’s fine and I could be wrong about that but the only other explanation for this story I can think of, is that it’s in response, perhaps subconsciously, (on the part of the author or whoever might be behind the author’s task to write it), to the fact that there are more people willing to take a look at what Ti and Do taught. In any case it provided another opportunity to point out how unreliable and biased some in the media can often be and also showed me by the comments to the article how many others are becoming increasingly aware of as well.

The second part of this post addresses the increases of violence in the U.S. in particular and some ideas of why that I doubt one will hear in many other places in this specific way, though I’m not claiming it’s a perfect explanation but it involves Rev 16:2.

Regarding the first part on alleged sleep deprivation: The truth is there was a very short period of time around 1980, some five years after most of us joined with Ti and Do not long after we moved into houses from living outdoors in the wild for years in Wyoming in summer and Texas in the winter, when Ti and Do (the teachers) did experiment with us (the students that chose to follow them) by changing sleep and eating patterns among many things. The primary sleep experiment was to be up for 4 hours and then down to sleep for 2 hours, all day long so we still got 8 hours sleep. I don’t think that lasted more than a week or two before Ti and Do changed the pattern back to a strict 8 hours that we was required during the time we lived outdoors. We also had regular hour long naps when we had the 8 hour sleep schedule and we were instructed to stay in our bunks for the entire time unless we needed to use the “bath chamber” (rest room). (They also changed lots of our terminology). Then a few years after that, they changed it to a mandatory 6 hours sleep a night and a maximum 8 hours. One could get up earlier but all had to go down at the same time.

In both the outdoor and indoor living Ti and Do would often instruct everyone to take a nap. They said during the experiment with the 4 hours up and 2 hours down they saw that peoples brains didn’t work as well and they didn’t like that, contrary to what the article implies. There is so much inaccuracy in that article I’d have to re-write it entirely but it goes to show how easy it’s become to program people to believe the misinformation as we see throughout the governments, religions, spiritual and atheistic, now main stream “cults of mistruth”.

For another example of the article’s mistruth that is probably what is still on Wikipedia, among many other so called “facts” (that they wouldn’t let me change because I have credentials), Do wasn’t at the hospital where he met Ti for his own benefit – (for a heart condition or as a mental patient). He was there visiting a “male friend” the way he put it which we learned from him that he said “male” in “88update” to expose that he had been gay before he met Ti (and by the way became completely non-sexual, though before that he said he was frustrated with not finding a partner who wanted a committed relationship, as he told us on several occasions).

I’m not going to bother saying much more about the article, though I’ll copy this comment to the comment section and send it to Alternet.org corrections email address. If they would issue a total re-write I would help them with it but since there was no sleep deprivation perhaps they’ll do nothing so some will just believe the lies from this so called alternative media group that has become just another form of propaganda, at least in this case.

However, it was refreshing to see among the 20 or so comments that several people, even most, just don’t buy all this hype about cults anymore. Maybe that’s because we don’t see any more big events like this AND more and more see how the media, and governments and traditional religions and new age spirituality and corporations and the military and scientists and entire agencies pull off massive deceptions that often involve direct murder, abuses, neglect, considering the displacements and disease and death of people collateral damage that end up being far nastier than even the worst of the off-track cults. (Note, with every cult you will find leaders that abused and misused people and their power with many examples that have come to light, while Ti and Do the founders of what became known as the Heaven’s Gate cult, though having many dropouts were never even legitimately accused of any such abuses or human conduct.)

The brainwashing is so prevalent and apparent anymore that many see the hype in this article as more propaganda. In fact, more and more many see almost everything as propaganda and even to the other extreme to where many don’t believe the truth when it’s told either as seen by the flurry of reported “false flag” scenarios. That’s another form of illusion that seems to have started with the 9/11 event. On that event as with the JFK story and Martin Luther King story and no doubt many others, it becomes very obvious that the governments story is not at all trustworthy – go figure right – our government is not trustworthy, nor is the media “free”, while all the other freedoms, if we ever really had them, because the history books were written by the Misinformation Cult are disappearing.

I believe I can prove to anyone who wants to really know, that Ti and Do stand apart from all as the only “cult of truth” that looked so bizarre because of the saturation of the Misinformation Cults all through history. Yes, they chose to lay down their lives for what they believed and that is a very serious step to take that was anything but taken without consideration of all the ramifications and that no one was forced into. In fact some were filtered out. I was one of them actually. I can prove that from the 19 years I spent with them, though I dropped out, not because of anything they did or didn’t do, a long story I do tell to those who ask. I then  started a new life but realized after 9/11 (curiously that I have a lot to say about) that I still believed in them so have since re-started my service to the truth which is another long story I’m willing to tell to anyone who asks. But that scenario of having someone who was ready to lay down his life with them, as we began to talk about it directly in the way they ended up exiting their vehicles in August of 1994, who worked with them and had accepted their teachings seemingly as much as anyone, to decide on my own to leave and not show any significant problems re-adjusting to life in the world, getting married and fathering a child and holding down a good job to support the family while re-associating with old family and friends and making new friendships, is baffling to psychologists to consider as I was supposed to be brainwashed and in need of de-programming to fit back into the accepted “cults”. Like I said, it’s because of who Ti and Do really were/are and the fact that they didn’t have an evil manipulating bone in their bodies but to the contrary were no doubt the return of the Father and the One who was called Jesus 2000 years ago that was made into a saccharine religious figure that many bought into.

Here is the article:

http://www.alternet.org/belief/here-are-five-infamous-religious-cults-used-sleep-deprivation-control-their-followers

I received a comment seemingly sarcastic saying that I missed out on the sleep deprivation but did I miss out on the castration and to count my blessings, I guess assuming I had, to which I responded:

No I didn’t miss out on the castration option that some took. In fact I was among the first two who petitioned Do to allow us to be castrated. After a year of petitioning, another classmate and I were given the go ahead. One of the other students was an oncology nurse (Lvvody) so knew the procedure and created a surgically clean room and Do felt to invite me and the other student Srrody to have the procedure there. Do was there and the nurse student and her partner (Jnnody). At one point Do asked me if I had any reservations. I said to him “no, but my vehicle isn’t looking forward to it, but I’m overriding my vehicle”. Lvvody needed to know who was going first to start the preparation. Since we both wanted to go first as we commonly did when we had to choose and the answer didn’t matter, we flipped a coin and the winner of the coin toss got to choose. I lost the flip and Suri chose to go first so I became a witness to his removal of his testicles. There more to this story.

Years later after I left them in September of 1994 when I went public with my experience, following their laying down their lives in March of 1997, where I was on 60 minutes and Larry King Live and Good Morning America and in stories in most all the national media centered in the NYC area, I was laughed at, probably by most in the nation because I was quoted in Time or Newsweek magazine as saying “I lost the toss and didn’t get castrated”. Most people couldn’t imagine legitimately wanting to not be sexual anymore. Little do they know that our giving away of our “life-force” is perhaps the biggest form of reducing our common sense about what is true and what is misinformation regarding what is above and beyond the human evolutionary kingdom and where we all came from initially, the genetic code, big bangs, etc. and how it’s common sense that it’s all the result of direction by Above Human Beings whose environments are not terrestrial unless they have a planet size base or use a planet as a base as seems to be the case on the dwarf planet Ceres that NASA’s Dawn spacecraft just revealed by the apparent abundance of what looks like a cityscape of lights.

Graduation into “heaven” is nothing like the religious teach. Religion is the distortion of the truth actually and is a killer of souls, as well as spirituality, though as all things in the human kingdom can be stepping stones into the Level Above Human IF we grow past them when we are given the chance as is now. This idea of not wasting our force is where the entire idea of moving the kundalini force to one’s pineal gland chakra for greater enlightenment came from, though was distorted to heighten ones SELF like the Luciferian fallen angels instead of moving that “force” towards a stronger relationship with one’s Older Member (aka Heavenly Father) from the Evolutionary Level Above Human, that in the old less accurate terminology was called the Kingdom of God or Kingdom in the literal heaven’s (outer space).

Members of that higher than human level don’t have gender and don’t reproduce. They don’t even have the “plumbing” because they are no longer mammals so part of the lesson to graduate their school is to voluntarily cease stimulating one’s procreative functions of the physical body they inhabit because doing so in mind and body actually builds a type of mind muscle so when willfully born into the Next Level, (what Jesus called a “spirit birth” (a spirit or soul being unseen by others) and they issue you a new physical body that doesn’t have those functions one’s Mind (aka spirit-like software we write by choice of behaviors and ways) would be a match for it and would have the will power to drive it, as to a Member of the Next Level the physical bodies they grow on vines to adulthood are “worn” like the way a human would put on a suit to function in outer space or underwater. They have different bodies for different tasks though they don’t have a closet of bodies to choose from, though their Mind can grow in the Next Level to literally operate more than one vehicle at a time, which Do said his Older Member Ti had the capacity to do so didn’t need to bring all her mind with her to do her part of the incarnate task to “get Do started”.

I know this all sounds like sci-fi but that is because of the dumbing down of the population, largely by promoting constant giving away of their force and ridiculing anyone who chooses not to. Human reproduction was not a necessity and we are seeing that more and more by the hybridization programs the space aliens have been performing for decades or even millennium (See Genesis chapter 6) on and off when they are let out of their underground prison cells to become catalysts for a new Next Level classroom that is actually an astronaut training program, that used to be called, “overcoming the human world”.

Ti and Do knew all this like the back of their hands and then when I began to study certain things Jesus said, the real Jesus not the myth Jesus that most Christians have been programmed to believe or disbelieve in, I saw that Jesus actually spoke favorably as a choice to “make oneself a eunuch for the Kingdom of Heaven’s sake”. He also talked about cutting off one’s own hand or plucking out one’s own eye to enter into life with only one hand or one eye RATHER than miss out on the opportunity to evolve beyond the human kingdom, the only future that can exist for any human, that won’t seem like reality if one is not willing to at the very least consider it and go after further thinking in that vein. Of course the misinformation promoters will say Jesus didn’t really mean that but if one really looks into it, it is quite apparent that he did. It had nothing to do with being religious. It was a choice that had a practical application as the seeds we sow now are building blocks of our new Mind that if it meets the graduation requirements during the time when an Older Member was once again in the flesh “wearing a human vehicle” as was the case with Ti and Do, who are also waiting to hear from some now if they want to apply to be really saved for the next “overcoming classroom” program instead of being recycled in the upcoming spading of the garden (to include the spirit world and the Luciferians) as the weeds have all but taken over the Next Level’s garden and made it almost impossible to see the truth through their smoke screens.

I do count my blessings. Having another opportunity is the blessing as I flunked out of my first opportunity. We each have that same opportunity and is the reason the world is becoming more apparently corrupt and polluted and inhospitable to anyone with consciousness, that is for those that don’t bury their heads in the sand looking to be soothed by religion and spirituality or by keeping focused on building a career or with entertainment or with procreation and raising a family and/or taking care of their own.

A tiny few will hear what I am saying and it will turn on a little light, but then they must reach up to get more of that light or lose it. The way to reach up for that light is to learn everything you can about the real story about Ti and Do instead of the mindless belief that they were the same as all the other cults and if they do that and have the guts to even ask Ti and Do if they can become their student, though in one’s privacy since they are no longer in physical human bodies, but have excellent technology to hear the thoughts when directed to them especially, then they will let you know in some subtle unobtrusive way that they heard you and will give you further opportunities to grow. The formula is the same as it was spoken of by Moses and by Jesus – to love the Lord with all your heart, all your mind, all your soul and all your strength – which means as Jesus said, to “deny yourSELF”, “pick up your cross (burden)” – because when one tells others the formula they will hate you as they hated our Older Members when they were incarnate saying the same things and “follow” the Older Member’s behaviors and ways and if one is incarnate literally go with him, leaving all behind to do so to begin to learn what it means to “give all your love”. It’s not accomplished by joining a monastery or going to find a cave in the Himalaya’s. How fast one chooses to move in that direction is up to each of us but the process begins by putting ourselves in the hands of the Older Member from the Next Level. They will help us separate from our human worldliness in a way we can handle if we don’t fight the process but will not be easy either as it’s actually the hardest thing a human can do but in a step wise way looking to the Older Members for every step it is Do-able.

I’m not talking suicide. It wasn’t really suicide for those 38 that laid down their bodies. They are actually against suicide, but they would define it as choosing not to be with their Older Members when they are called though not all necessarily grasp that perspective at the same time, so there are multiple opportunities to rise up to conquering whatever there is that separates us from our Older Members. Thus for those 38 who all had a previous human life experience with an incarnate Older Member when they passed those grades in school, they were ready. For those it was actually natural because they had grown to know they were not the vehicle they were wearing and that they could trust their Older Member who was incarnate with them, so they didn’t have to guess at what he would say.

We who remain have a different task that also entails “giving our life in their service”, which is to believe everything they taught and “stand for Ti and Do” and look for help to make significant changes. Taking those steps is a huge step and does begin one’s separation from their human kingdom roots. There is no pie in the sky. We have to earn their Mind coming to us as they don’t need us. It’s their joy to offer what they know is actually more real than what we experience in the human kingdom. But we each must be brought through the eye of the needle so to speak and we need a strong relationship to them to do so.

There is no new cult nor leaders nor things you must buy. All the information Ti and Do brought which is a huge amount is free for the taking for now at least. It will never be popular unless it’s once again twisted beyond recognition of what it was meant to represent though at this time that’s unlikely to occur and that’s especially clear with the city like lights seen by NASA up close on the dwarf planet Ceres and the earth like geology of Pluto that in 1982 Ti and Do directed in a movie script a story they said was “fiction based on the truth” that included the idea that Pluto was a Next Level base that had within it, seemingly coincidentally, a working model of the Earth they called the “earth lab” and had a huge door that would open and close in a louvered fashion to let space crafts large and small in and out. Note, in the first pictures from NASA’s New Horizon spacecraft on flyby of Pluto this last July of 2015 was pictured four approx. 200 mile wide rectangular black looking openings equidistant from one another looking like 4 black keys of a piano keyboard. There is a lot more to report on this.

As it turns out both Ceres and Pluto are part of the translation options of “green” (Demeter/Ceres – goddess of the harvest) and “hell” (hades/Pluto) in the projected plan for the conclusion of the current civilizational garden on earth referred to as the Book of Revelations the Next Level Crews are in the process of seeing to total fulfillment that shows all the direct relationships of Ti and Do’s teachings to all the teachings of the Father and Jesus and of Jehovah and Moses, because Ti and Do are those same Older Members from the Next Level returned as promised in the role of the Revelations chapter 11 Two Witnesses who were shot down by the press in 1975 as the UFO Two, UFO Cult, as they said the bible’s “cloud of light” was a physical spacecraft today we would see as unidentifiable. There is a great deal more to this as well.

Space aliens that have been reported in the bible and in many other cultural records, cave drawings, ancient astronauts, etc. are human and human equivilent descendants from the original “fallen angels” and are all referred to as Luciferians as they share the same Mind that is misinformation. They are really not “space” aliens anymore because they are all grounded to earth. Earth is their prison and their prison cell for a great deal of the time in between being let out to provide a catalyst for growth to upcoming members to the Next Level is literally under the ground and/or under the sea. They are the Revelations “beast” in combination with all the humans in the governments their apparent presence has become the motivation for the entire space program, though does so in all ways human – quest to explore, search for certain elements, like G.W. Bush said that we might find that will “boggle the mind” (because he already was privy to the existence of elements that could be used to drive a zero gravity engine).

Ti and Do said that all the prophecies of Revelations would be fulfilled and they spoke about the return of Jesus as the 7th closeness where they were the 6th closeness which is seen in Revelations chapter 19 as the rider of the white horse (in this context a spacecraft) with a pure clean white body “dipped in blood” which seems to be a reference to the vehicle the Older Member changed over into a Next Level vehicle 2000 years ago and levitated into the spacecraft hidden behind cloud cover, just as was demonstrated in the Moses camp by Jehovah when he would physically come and go to his tent dwelling. There is a lot more to say about this.

PUTTING THIS ARTICLE ASIDE, I WANT TO BRING UP SOME OBSERVATIONS OF HOW THE FURTHER DETERIORATION OF SOCIETY BY VIOLENCE, ESPECIALLY IN THE UNITED STATES IS DRAMATICALLY ESCALATING AT THIS TIME.

I heard on NPR today a talk about why the murder rates have gone up considerably in many big cities where they had been down for a while. I wanted to call in and tell them why I think it’s happening but they would probably never buy it, publically at least, but I’ll start with a reason they could be, at least willing to consider, which happens to be related to Ti and Do and Crew’s exit in 1997. In so many words, Ti and Do said the Next Level was holding back the human ugliness and resulting security state from rearing it’s head to allow their “overcoming of humanness classroom” to have all the time they needed, to avoid potential disruption of what they needed to have time to accomplish. In other words which is according to Jesus prophecy, time and opportunity to have the “dead in Christ”, those who “gave their lives” in service to Jesus, who all returned to complete their overcoming of their remaining humanness, to “rise first” meaning “resurrect” – “stand up again”, having two meanings of 1) FIRST to rise in the taking and standing in a new human vehicle and 2) first to take it over and overcome it to include their clinging to their life in that vehicle, both of which only works for good when it’s for and under the direction of the Older Members, Ti and Do. Humans can accomplish the same things and even give their lives for a variety of causes but it’s not necessarily seen favorably by the Next Level for doing so. For instance giving your life by taking up arms against someone may not be something the Next Level looks favorably upon though I do believe if one seeks forgiveness they can get it but they will have to show the Next Level they mean it, as do we all without whatever ways we “miss the mark” (sin). I say this because Jesus said the only unforgiveable sin was railing against the Kingdom of God and the truth.

I can see two more immediately applicable reasons for the increased violence.

1) More and more people are rebelling in every which way because whether they can address the cause or not, they have been so inundated with lies and prejudices and bigotries and aware that there is no “justice” in the so called just American society really, (except in very isolated cases that are highlighted to give the semblance of justice) together with a tiny fuse on all their built up anger against the system and against anyone who tries to hold them down, together with disrespect for so called law and order, hopelessness and awareness that violence seems to be an acceptable way to solve problems and even appear to be a demonstration of bravery and purpose, even if it’s to fulfill the devil’s role as the latest Oregon school shooting said.

2) The alchemist (true sorcerers) chemicalization of the mind and body in the forms of all kinds of drug addiction – not even primarily to heroin, or meth or crack or coke as much as to the legal drugs prescribed by the boatload that all have side effects and combination problems that can easily render the user into a zombie like hallucinogenic state, combined with having little self discipline and less and less regard for life and more and more resentment of anyone who seems to have money, power, popularity, success, happiness that can all contribute to a powder keg most anything can trigger that sets off a violent response to as we have seen in the many school and other public mass shootings and especially in the latest event with a woman who just lost her job, had just gone off her meds for some mental condition and drove her car into a parade in Oklahoma killing at least 4 and injuring 40 or more and some are in critical condition from. It is a fact that all the school shootings were by individuals who were on meds.

This is the first test period (calamity/plague) that the Next Level planned (forecasted) recorded as their first angel pouring out a vial/bowl on the earth inhabitants. I equate that word vial to a vial of medicine, which is a term Ti and Do used for a lesson step. In this case the events that transpire as a result of what the Next Level crew does or doesn’t do shows those who witness the events and hear the truth about how it is showing up as being fulfilled, correlates exactly with the timing, events and teachings (their prophecy (speaking the truth)) in the return of the Revelations Two Witnesses as Ti and Do, that can help them wake up to the whole truth about what’s really happening. (Meanwhile the view that most Christian interpreters of scripture will say provides another viewpoint that many will gravitate to as it doesn’t really challenge anyone to seeing anything really new as they often have pat ideas of how all the Revelations prophecy are to be interpreted that range from having already been fulfilled even as early as 70 AD to being so symbolic there is no chance of ever seeing anything in a literal application, except in a highly general way of showing the arrival of “birth pangs” in the “end times”. Everyone is so saturated with end time apocalyptic talk, it’s a joke for many while it’s illusion for many while it’s happening but without knowing how they fit into it or not and how many prophecies tie in to all the others that are repeated from different vantage points throughout the Revelations writings and correlation with what Jesus and Old Testament prophets said. So in a sense the Christian interpreters say many of the same things I’m saying, even interpreting events literally, as in seeing wars and rumors of wars and earthquakes and hail and fires, etc. but with no overview of timing that shows all the prophecies’ literal application. This is because few others have the “key” though many even say we don’t get the key until Jesus returns but if they never know how to identify him then they will never see the key that works to unlock the doors that are then left as a mystery of what’s behind it.

The key is that Ti and Do are the return of the Father and Jesus together as the two witnesses in new names in new bodies to speak (prophecy) directly “plainly” (without parables this time) which can not be done from the clouds though they try to make sense out of that even though the same sense was provided when looking for the Moses return when he said, “like me” would be the return – “from among you” in other words in the flesh again, which they were looking for but had in mind it would be from among the Jewish priestly class because they had become so full of themselves and their religiosity that they couldn’t imagine his coming as a peasant working class carpenter. So Ti and Do come and don’t primarily talk religious Christian jargon that is actually the distortion of what was meant, so they miss him during the incarnate stage and become the ones Jesus referred to as the “last”. The ones who think themselves to be first to see his return then become the last to see his return, that is if they see his return at all. But they are at least given the chance to see but many are tricked by the lower forces to expect something entirely different.

Now regarding at least this first “plague/calamity”, it seems that Ti and Do and crew are not making people act the way they are, nor are they the cause for people’s depression and irritability and hatreds, except in how their closer presence and attention while in their Next Level bodies and spacecrafts that emit the truth/light stimulates people to “become exactly what they are”. In other words where someone may have had thoughts wishing they could kill someone before, now at this time they will be more prone to acting it out because it’s like putting a very strong light/heat source closer to a bee hive or ant hill. The increased frequency and even literal electromagnetic energy it stimulates that is even literally stimulated by things the Next Level can do with the Sun, forces us to act out the content of our soul or spirit.

The truth is that human beings are literally a type of plant, a valuable one to the Next Level in how they can become the stepping stone/footstool a soul/spirit/mind from the Next Level can overcome and take over to yield the Next Level fruit instead of morphing to a weed that can serve yet another purpose as a catalyst like fertilizer that in controlled doses can help that upcoming fruit flourish by growing stronger to combat.

Thus many people have been manipulated and in most cases didn’t know any better but found themselves trapped into a dead end agenda that, though people hate to hear this is literally a result of the failed leadership from the Luciferian fallen angel space aliens and their minions both through their direct descendants in the flesh that are also thought of and seen as space aliens (though they can’t actually get very far away from earth anymore, the reason why they are pushing humans to develop the ways to do so, the reason for continued nuclear energy, even though it’s against the health of the populations) and humans who they have motivated and enslaved in all ways that we define as either SECULAR and/or SPIRITUAL in prophetic terms, the BEAST and/or it’s IMAGE. (See Revelations references galore but note that some translations to “BEAST” is misinformational as there are two Greek words both largely translated as Beast when one should be “Living Being” and refers to student worker members of the Next Level). However, these last seven calamities are designed in such a way that all have yet another chance to see through their manipulations but if they have no desire to pay attention and search for meaning and give identity to the Creators then they will by their own choices miss that opportunity and will succumb to the directions from the BEAST and/or false prophets of religion and spirituality (the Beasts Image) that translates to remaining engulfed in human behaviors and ways, thinking and self centeredness. And they will meet their end as all do, except their spirits will be recycled where those that do seek out the truth and push to “change their mind” the true meaning of repentance and don’t accept the programming from the BEAST and it’s Image in the form of accepting the various markings that are being instigated more and more as various security measures.

With that said, here is the first angels pouring out of their vial, with double parentheses ((…)) showing the Greek word translation options from Strongs and/or Thayers Hebrew and Greek dictionaries that help me to broaden the view to consider. Some Christians will say this is devilish to consider different words. Others have said to me, you have to take the first translation option listed which is just as illogical as if that occurs in any language translation to another language. For instance take the word “heaven”. It has application as “sky, elevated areas, the firmament – the area where the Sun and Moon are and/or the Stars and even the Abode of God and a location where spirits go”. The context means a great deal and where all the meanings came from interplay, their etymology and then of course what the person doing the translation thinks about that word and it’s literal verses figurative possible applications. Also I use square brackets […] within double parentheses to show my thoughts and interpretation:

Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial ((bowl)) upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore ((1668 helkos probably from helkuo 1670= an ulcer (as if drawn together))) upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image ((1504 eikon from eiko 1503= faintness as a copy, likeness, (literally) statue, profile, or figuratively a representation, resemblance)).

The sores are actually translated as “ulcers” which is the exact terminology used to describe the lesions Dr. Wakefield and his eleven associate doctors documented among the 10 autistic children that became his patients. These lesions were throughout their intestines and in some measles virus that was injected into them was found in the lesions. This was most interesting to learn and as he also concluded and I’ve seen a great deal of research on there is no mistaking the “gut to brain” connection because it’s through the gut that the body absorbs substances into the blood that then travels throughout the body. If the particles are small enough to pass through the blood brain barrier, which heavy metals are and they lodge in places that change the electromagnetic balances, as heavy metals still in many vaccines and pharmaceuticals definitely do, then depending on the dosage and the frequency and the diet to cleanse it out or not, that has to do with the quality of the food, water and air supply and according to what the mother did in her life and her ancestors and what both parents were subject to and extend in thought, words, behaviors and ways all contribute to degrees of disease that can surface in all ways at any time throughout everyone’s lifetime.

Those that fall in line with everything they are taught and told by the government and institutions of so called higher learning and don’t question things and look for other points of view but accept what’s easiest to come by and that gives satisfaction to be a part of for prestige or profit or self assurance and come to trust and believe in, most often become the people that are the biggest programmed product of the BEAST who are all those who tow the line for those governments, their institutions and corporations. They are also those who are most accepting of the MARKS of this BEAST, of course for practical concerns and reasons but as Jesus said would be showing themselves as the “tares”, the facsimile of the wheat/corn the Next Level plants that the Luciferian fallen angel space aliens and all in league with them know it or not planted. That’s not to say any of us can judge who fits into this category or not as even if someone does accept most everything the authorities say, whether secular or religious or humanist, and they justify certain BEASTly ways or solutions to problems that could even involve killing other humans, they might still change before they die. Death does solidify their minds allegiance.

So how do we escape these ill effects. Well, one can think they can go to a cleansing diet, eat organically despite the cost hoping the quality is better, eat and drink less concoctions and reduce the ingestion of stimulants, use “super foods”, fast and those things can certainly help. They can try to use mediation and yoga for mind/body balance and healing and get plenty of exercise, move to the mountains and away from the densely populated and polluted areas and that can help. They can filter their water and limit electromagnetic exposures, use herbs and acupressure and acupuncture and chiropractic and other naturopathic and homeopathic remedies and those can all help. And one can choose which allopathic treatments and drugs and therapies to use and that can help as it’s not about all or nothing. We can meditate on peace and love to reduce stress and try to choose employment that is less stressful and solely money related and that can help. We can adhere to a religion – take one’s pick or take the best from them all and that may help in some ways to have community with like minded people but in the end those things could all fall into the category of the “image” in that Revelations 16:2 verse.

The biggest key word I can think of to describe what the use of the word “Image” represents is what today is called “spirituality” and includes all belief systems to include Christianity because they are all a facsimile, appearance, representation, resemblance, imagination and illusion (all synonyms of the greek word “eikon and eiko” translated to Image) of what is “true” and “real”.

What else is there then, one might ask? Well for those reading this the answer is very simple though it’s the hardest thinking to consider and believe in. It’s to project one’s desires for the truth and choose to put themselves in the hands of the highest beings they can imagine exist who created the universe and all it’s life forms, who exist in deep outer space and who most recently came “in the flesh” aka incarnate (and have since exited those flesh bodies by dying) and used those bodies they chose to call Ti and Do, to speak to us directly about; WHERE THEY ARE FROM (the literal heavens – all of outer space is their home which can be inside a spacecraft as big as Pluto or Ceres for example or as small as a piper cub, depending on their task assignments), WHO THEY REPRESENT (the Chief of Chiefs – the Oldest Member of the Next Level, who we aren’t designed to understand where he came from), WHY THEY ARE HERE (to give us the opportunity to apply for membership in the only evolutionary step beyond the human condition, which requires an evolution (growth) of Mind to accept their Mind (information) and replace the misinformation mind of the renegades to their world that they allow to exist on earth to provide us the choice to remain part of the human family they are also a part of or to become a Member of their Next Level Above Human family) and WHEN THEY WILL LEAVE (when they have offered what they know they have that’s beyond human to all who want it). For those who don’t read this, they are judged by the Older Members in the Next Level according to what they are exposed to and are capable of understanding and what they think, say and do, how they behave towards others and thus how they SHOW their allegiance to the Next Level regardless of what terms they use to describe the Next Level. When they pray if they are praying for truth then that request goes to the place where Ti and Do are.

In their Next Level Above Human society they use physical bodies that they grow on a vine to maturity that their Mind (a Soul that graduated the human evolutionary condition by overcoming all their humanness while in a Next Level “classroom” designed for them by the current Older Member who comes incarnate) wears like we would put on a space suit or diving suit that allows them to function in the physical realm their Older Members created and they have different vehicles (bodies) for different tasks. They work in crews on spacecrafts that are laboratories of all sorts. They are not mammalian though look humanoid but have no gender, nor plumbing (no reproductive organs or digestive organs), don’t eat though can receive nutrition from a light source, but is the reason they designed us to appear like them. We look like them, they don’t look like us. They don’t look anything like the monsters portrayed in the alien movies except for having a slightly larger head and eyes, small frame and white true lack of coloration (a Caucasian is not really white just like a person called black is not actually black, but are all a shade or shadow (hue) of “man” (Hebrew, adom). No humans is any closer or further away from related to the Older Members in the Evolutionary Level Above Human because of what their vehicle (body) looks like. It’s their behaviors and ways and recognition of the fact that we are all part of the creation that was directed to come about through ion’s of experience and experiments. Even automatic looking evolutionary processes came about through the direction of intelligent Above Human beings and the space aliens are also human equivalents.

It’s not pleasant to watch all that’s happening but we all have to be faced with the truth. Life will not be returning to some other form of normalcy though this period too shall pass but not until the entire “garden like” civilization as we know it is spaded and recycled so the Next Level can start over because the current “garden” is infested with “weeds” rending the planted fruit more and more incapable of growth (to see/understand the truth and respond positively to it).

Another deceitful manipulator claiming to be Heaven’s Gate 2 Surfaces

A friend of a friend of a friend that knows the Heaven’s Gate story sent this to me asking if this group is valid? My response follows for anyone else who comes by it. It’s a trouble maker pushing a spoof designed to upset people and/or start trouble and foster lies and deceit and it seemed to have as it’s basis some hints related to ideas I’ve written about that I put together from things Ti and Do said and prophecy and current events in the last few years. My response is below this dumb message. I learned something from it that further supported certain prophecies I’ve examining as it may be that this was generated by a former classmate in Ti and Do’s group. There were many and it seems one or more have tried various ploys to generate a group to follow them. What they have said shows nothing in common with anything Ti and Do said or taught. (Also I never clicked on the link. If someone has a way to do so securely you can let me know what it shows.)

The message sent to the friend starts here:

Congratulations!

You and a limited amount of applicants have been selected for a Level 1 spot in Heaven’s Gate 2!

WHAT HEAVEN’S GATE 2 IS:
Heaven’s Gate 2 is not Heaven’s Gate. Hale-Bopp is gone. The Older Members have ascended past this world. However, The UFO Two designated junior members to stay on Earth. Those junior members have started “The Circle of Two”. The goal of the Circle is to calculate the next coming of the Gateway and to recruit new members into joining. The Circle Of Two has calculated 2005 ED224 as the Gateway. The Gateway initiates the Action, which begins at Act A. Joining Heaven’s Gate 2 gives you the opportunity to recycle your human shell and ascend into your true selves. You will be moved to another plane of existence. As you become more involved with the Circle, more will be clear to you. The Action will be explained and you will learn how to enter the Gateway. The earth was recycled, years ago. Our Creators altered many things about the place we live in today. Look outside your window. Do you want to die without allowing yourself to reach your full potential?

WHAT THE GATE NEEDS FROM YOU:
A first name or alias The Circle can address you by. Your gender, and your religion. A essay containing these key points:

– Why you would like to join Heaven’s Gate 2
– Why do you deserve to shed your physical body and gain entry into The Gateway
– What you can supply for Heaven’s Gate 2
– What you expect to receive from Heaven’s Gate 2
– Achievements in your lifetime
We expect the essay to be of length. If you are not serious about joining Heaven’s Gate 2, please do not reply. You are limited by time to deliver your essay to us. If the essay is not delivered when The Circle cuts off the entries, you will be permanently disqualified from Heaven’s Gate 2.
Please only accept email from this address. Attempting to email other addresses, posting email addresses in public forums or sharing the address with others, or alerting our presence to the media or any outside sources will disqualify you from ever gaining entry to Heaven’s Gate 2 again. Please alert us of any leaks you see.
Once again, discretion is advised.
We look forward to hearing from you.
THE CIRCLE OF TWO
And here is a screen shot of the image you receive after submitting your email address to the site: https://s3.amazonaws.com/f.cl.ly/items/2V2m1I2M293I3i2Q2U11/Screen%20Shot%202015-09-08%20at%2012.58.27%20PM.png
Any information or insight you have about this would be very much appreciated!
Sawyer’s response to my friend:
This is 100% phony baloney, not even containing one ounce of truth in it that I could pull apart bit by bit to prove if necessary.  I’ve seen this kind of thing before and I don’t know who exactly is behind it but it’s sinister and the only purpose is either to make money or gain a following but ultimately to try to take away from the truth about Ti and Do that is only trusted as coming from them and those who are giving their all to further reveal what they said and did.
Thanks for running this by me so I can post something on my blog about it as I have done with others. Curiously did you try that link to the image file. I am hesitant to do so, so I thought I’d check with you first. And if you feel okay about sharing the email address this message came to you from, I would send them a reply. No former member of Ti and Do’s group were given a task to leave the group to do another task. In the case of Rio, after he told Do he felt he had something to do in the world, Do said he checked with Ti who was outside his vehicle and decided (since he wanted to leave) he could be of service as he and another student had been assigned the task of working on a movie script Rio was then going to try to peddle to a Hollywood studio to produce. Then Rio wrote a book and decided to cease further opportunities for service,  yet I know that could change at any time and I wouldn’t need to know about it. It’s possible one or more of several that follow my blog and sort of harass me learned that I believe I was given a task subsequent to leaving them. But I didn’t leave to do that task. At best they were taking advantage of the fact that I chose to re-establish my provision of service to Ti and Do. So I had a dream with 4 of the 38 class members telling me they had a task for me, which was after a dream where Do told me “I can use you”. That task is to rewrite the Book of Revelations and associated prophecy from Jesus showing how Ti and Do and Crew fulfill all the prophecies. I have been working on that task for the last 14 years intensely and am very near publishing. But there is absolutely no need for their to be another group and no one will benefit from exiting their vehicle – killing themselves. They are against suicide though they define it as Jesus would have, as going against the Next Level when it’s offered to you and then it’s not suicide of the body, it’s suicide of the spirit/soul (mind’s continuance).  Do said there were three types of people who would “go with him”, that is when it’s recycle time and he’s not talking about physical vehicles. 1) Those who like his 38+4 graduates, are doing all they can to complete their metamorphosis – their overcoming of the human condition that requires the separation from all our human roots, behaviors and ways under the direction of the most recently incarnate representative from the Next Level – Ti and Do. 2) Those who start their metamorphosis by seeking to become “putty in Ti and Do’s hands” (whether before they left or until it’s done or they leave their vehicle) but are not strong enough to completely separate from the world and 3) Those who never heard of Ti and Do but who in their own way are separating from the world by not showing their allegiance to the various human power structures, governments, institutions, etc. – what Jesus referred to as “mammon”. I can align these three conditions with several of the prophecies in the Revelations. The overall condition that goes with the first two types of individuals is to believe everything Ti and Do taught and to be willing to “stand for them” and accept the consequences. Standing for them is service by disseminating their information. Laying down one’s body as they did was an option for some who felt to that applied for an undetermined amount of time after they left. I’m not saying someone couldn’t do so but they’d have to as Do said, “scream to Ti and Do” to know whether  that would be right for they will give that person a clear signal. Long after they left their vehicles, I asked Ti and Do if I needed to prepare to lay down my vehicle as they did. It was very hard for me to ask that as I had a partner and we had our daughter who was maybe 10 years old then and I didn’t want to do so. Do came to me in a dream and said, “you need to give your life”. So he left it up to me, typical of Do and Ti throughout my 19 years with them. No manipulation whatsoever though of course they can be seen as otherwise. Whoever is putting out this email is committing what Jesus described as the only unforgiveable sin, that of telling someone else a lie about the Kingdom of God (Next Level) as if it was the truth. It’s in a sense like trying to kill someone because if someone believes in what they say, they will die believing in a lie, though the Next Level may choose to take that spirit or soul into their keeping for being willing to give their life to what they believe is the creator’s kingdom so even the victim loses their vehicle. But for whoever instigates that true form of “evil”, though they are still given the chance to change their ways, if they continue the Next Level will deal with them accordingly which I don’t know exactly what shape or form that could take as they have then become “waste” and a “weed” in their “garden” that can damage their “fruit”. I’m sorry I say so much but I’d rather be overly thorough than short cut doing my best to “stand for Ti and Do”.
Even as a joke this to me is repulsive. There is no Heaven’s gate 2 and Do is not coming back incarnate again during this civilization. I have been suggesting based on Prophecy in Rev 19  that he is coming back again to take those souls or spirits who seek allegiance with He and Ti into safe keeping – being legitimately “saved” so they can be brought back to have a new association with a human vehicle to have the opportunity to continue their growth towards potentially becoming a Member of the Next Level. That return Is described as remaining in the sky/heavens but in a very apparent, perhaps looking like a “sun” and/or armada kind of way and he may even be “wearing” the same vehicle he changed over into a Next Level vehicle 2000 years ago after he healed the one that was murdered and proved he was still physical and NOT a spirit and showed how his new changed over vehicle had capabilities human vehicles don’t have – the ability to appear and disappear while still being physical and touchable, and able to defy gravity by lifting himself up into the cloud covered spacecraft. Do said if Jesus was coming back, then speaking of Jesus as the vehicle he later admitted to occupying he was not going to be showing his scars again. Ti and Do also spoke about how the Next Level members are physical, not etheric as in discarnates – ghosts, etc. and how they could be among us to where if they let us bump into them we would feel something. They didn’t say what we would feel. But they said the Next Level members weren’t going to let that happen. That would interfere with a students free will/choice of what to believe and act upon at a time when those students had the chance to graduate. If they weren’t of a grade level that could graduate, as 2000 years ago became apparent, then they can be shown things that seem magical because it becomes part of their soul memory. But they will still have to bring that part of their memory into the next human vehicle they are assigned to take over for use to complete their task that brings them through their “birth canal” – the spirit (unseen) birth Jesus spoke of that requires having a human vehicle to overcome it’s human ways through to complete.
I thought of another characteristic in this person or groups message that may have been stimulated by things I have said, thus perhaps my karma to deal with now. In my defense it’s again based on prophecy and it’s important to know that Ti and Do said early on in 1975, even perhaps in early 1974 and as late as 1976, because I got it from the book by Rod Steiger and Hayden Hewes that were about Ti and Do, but then went by, depending on the time Bonnie and Herf or after 1974 Bo and Peep, named, “UFO Missionaries Extraordinary”, where Ti and Do posted a statement in the back of the book on page 159 headed as “What Is Happening in the Heavens at This Time!. Here is a segment from that document they wrote that shows some evidence, like I said in the previous comment that the one called Jesus would return with that body.
Now it will be apparent from this segment that Ti and Do thought at the time that graduates would change over their human caterpillar like body into a new Butterfly like body, changing it from within so that the same physical body as in Jesus case would then ascend into the sky. Obviously that changed though even in March of 1997 Do and Crew still thought it was an option for exit, even though they also by then thought that “rapture” referred to how the Next Level truth was like the bait on the hook that those humans who were prepped could consume that would in a sense “steal them from their human world” or as the definition of “rapture” is “catch” them “up” to heaven, at that stage where heaven was where the Older Members were incarnate to bring those caught to their “spirit (invisible) birth”. They were not certain altogether about the physicality of the soul until about the year or two before they exited. I left 2 1/2 years before their exit. For all we know when they layed down their human vehicles, that could have released the “soul container” inside it that then literally rose up into the sky or wherever the cloaked spacecraft was to receive them or the spacecraft could have even been right over top of that mansion as if that craft had a huge hanger bay in it’s base. I know this is crazy to think is potentially reality but then the entire story is like I say anymore the truth that’s stranger than fiction.
So this new body growing inside their human body would have reached maturity to the degree it needed, to be “viable” in the Next Level, meaning it would not “abort” when put into a new physical body grown on a vine for each new member. Those bodies, unlike the human body doesn’t have it’s own mind to some degree that one would ever have to reprimand or teach or reward as we do in the human kingdom when we do something we believe we knew better not to do, though it would require a pilot (soul that’s graduated). The Next Level knows when each of their upcoming members have reached viability yet there are different types of vehicles they would receive and some would not have made the grade for a adult Next Level body.
Finally, to further explain the point to this addition, Ti and Do say that the “final prophecies in John’s Revelation” will be “completed” which his what my book is documenting and it also shown to be in the plan in the Revelations to take place during what Ti and Do  called in this document the “7th Closeness”. During the time of the 7th trumpet’s sounding is where we are now and is when the book I’m writing is to be revealed, which is clearly after the first fruit classroom of students have exited their incarnation and “ascended” into their station in the literal heavens as Members of the Next Level.  The next U.S. election is when the “green horse” comes to power following the Bush “red horse” of endless war and the Obama black horse who dealt with the financial crisis both of which were actually “falls” by the U.S. because of how, why, where, when they happened. This time is also spoken about as when former “saints” are stimulated by the Luciferian space aliens to “battle” among themselves which this message you received also may evidence though it’s by far not the only evidence of existing student infighting.
Further finally, following this segment Is another segment that shows how Ti and Do were aware that there could be some who graduate even if they are not part of the first fruit harvest/graduation and/or have their human vehicles die before making a changeover. And here’s the point as I at some points called this a “second harvest”. So wondered if I was talking about a “second suicide” which I clarified  in several places that it wasn’t necessarily the same mode for exiting our vehicle, though I can’t say it won’t be as it’s up to each individual what another chooses to do.
With that all said, here is the segment:
from Pages 168-170:
“The seventh closeness will not be a teaching one, but a gathering of the harvest of those who have overcome this world.
If the forces of those who have chosen to be slow growers again choose to reject this truth and it’s bearers, then the two of us will again demonstrate that changed-over individuals can repair their so-called “dead” bodies in three and a half days. If that must happen it will be soon – and at the time that we have completed our testimony. As soon as our clarification is complete and it has adequately reached the eyes, ears, and minds of those who have become ready for it, we can reenter the kingdom-above-human and be a part of the membership of that level again.
Many could choose to overcome this world and even be a part of its becoming a heavenly body instead of a garden. The option is there. The intense energy focus that is on the planet will cause them to make their choice. They can accept this truth and do it–or reject it.
The seventh closeness, which is immediately upon us in the sense that those who are in the middle of their normal life span will easily live to see it’s completion, will include such events as what the Christian church refers to as the second coming, the “rapture,” and the completion of the final prophecies in John’s Book of Revelation. The one who was Jesus will come in at close range (as soon as those who have chosen to change over do it) and receive the elect into his company, for they have been those he has nurtured since the beginning of this civilization.
Those who literally and physically rise up to join him away from the surface of the Earth will be a part of the “rapture,” and they at that time will become full-fledged members of that kingdom. If they have not completed their total effort as individuals in overcoming this world and all of their individual attachments to it by the time he comes in this seventh closeness, they will not receive that ingredient from the kingdom of God. If they have given their full effort toward total overcoming from the time their minds receive this clarification of changeover requirements until the seventh closeness, they WILL receive that final ingredient and become whole “in a twinkling of an eye” and be capable of moving and serving in the literal heavens as much as the butterfly is capable of moving it it’s world as compared to it’s limited capabilities when it was but a caterpillar.”
From Message Summary page 171:
“If the candidate’s body dies or is left behind, it is an indication that he did not change over and become a physical member of that next kingdom anymore than a caterpillar that dies has not become a butterfly (But if a candidate’s body has died, his time of changeover may occur at the next graduation season.)”
I hope that answers your question. Feel free to help me clarify anything else I said here.
sawyer