TI and DO’s Next Level Above Human Exhibit Being The Only True Creators of The Earth and the Creatures on It. Space Aliens are the Fertilizer that Restarted the Current Human Kingdom Civilization!

Here is the start of a type of critique of a post on a youtube channel I found interesting to hear and comment on that was entitled:

Ancient Documents Reveal ALIENS created Humans & The Pyramids! ?? Billy Carson Interview
Produced by True Geordie who has 2.04M subscribers able to be seen via the URL:
https://youtu.be/Cxhf0WbHTUQ?si=i8SjaC4-3z7xATB6

Sawyers Responses:

There is a huge difference between the kind of “creating” space aliens have instigated (by mating with humans and/or by using test tube baby development on their spacecrafts and/or in underground bases (Antarctica, North Pole?) and/or by abducting humans to fertilize them with their sperm and/or sperm they have in sperm banks and/or extract from their abductees to fertilize eggs they stole from abductees, etc.) and those who are literally evolutionarily (not Darwinian) as further advanced above these human equivalent space aliens and humans, as humans are evolutionarily speaking above animals and animals above plants and plants above minerals.

The only true Creators have the scientific know how to literally and in attention to great detail grow all these creatures and aren’t limited to the genetic pools of any planets they also designed and developed.

In history these true Creators have been termed The Only True Gods while the space aliens were at most fallen offspring (sons) of the Older Member True Gods.

The religions have only clues to the nature of these True Gods and even their records are sparse and confused as in various mythologies and there are huge gaps wrought with misinformation in this regard. For instance if space aliens need to harvest eggs and sperm from humans and/or human equivalents, where/how/when did those systems themselves come from? Is it at all logical that those systems developed themselves? Some would argue they did develop themselves but that’s only backed up by the ways those very systems of life are fluid and adaptable which is the nature of the Living Beings who developed those systems that they themselves are always improving upon.

There is tremendous evidence that those systems display countless intelligent design to even evolve physically but also evolve mentally. To some it is common sense that Living Beings, way above (in all ways) the space aliens and humans Created through fully scientific methods the very planet earth and all it’s lifeforms and that’s why some were able to recognize those who were called TI and DO, the Two Teachers who came public in the 1970’s and have departed with their Crew of Students by 1997 seen in the media as the Heaven’s Gate “Cult”.

TI and DO taught that a Soul is actually a physical plasma like container and that what we thought was etheric and described in many ways throughout history as Spirits are more accurately described as Minds that upon leaving the human body they developed within became disincarnate (deceased humans) aka ghosts that also have a plasma like physicality that are like databases outside of a dense physical container we refer to as our human bodies that are simply plants with a “wireless” root system.

These ideas are just a few of the sideline teachings of those who were called TI and DO who much of the world have demonized but in so many ways were decades or even centuries ahead of their time and were not at all religious but understood the religions as the result of the space aliens trying to discredit their teachings to humans so humans would not be able to tell the difference between their people from their physical evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human and the human equivalent space aliens.

In this noted youtube channel interview, I like it when the interviewee, Billy Carson clarifies what he got from various documentation and what was his hypothesis. When he starts talking about what humans consider to be long time periods, it’s really not that useful towards understanding reality better except in view of the way primitive thinking humans think there was no civilizations before the current one as some relgionists are blind to recognizing. I respect Billy Carson talking about the time frames being ancient though to help wean some from that limited thinking in these regards as I said but those time frames are elementary in their seeming huge numbers because there have likely existed many civilizations on earth and earth is by far not the only planet that has equivalent to humans growing on it.

But TI and DO brought clarity that described humans as singled out from other homo sapien styled dense physical bodies Their Next Level Above Human Kingdom create, aka design, grow, and develop and recycle periodically.

As to who seeded the earth, like I began to address above, it could have been accomplished by human like people from other planets but even if that were the case on earth to some degree, it was still under the direction of the Evolutionary Level Above Human Beings, even directly by TI, The Next Level Older Member who is like an Admiral in the Next Level Above Human Kingdom with “her” Captain, DO. (“her” is used because that Older Member Soul left her Next Level designed dense physical body behind in order to perform the task of being hands on in the completion of what is actually Their Astronaut Training Program on earth that TI is the Chief Administrator of).

But that seeding however it was accomplished was not at all the result of space aliens, who left their dying planet to find a new planet to live on as Billy Carson tends to piece together, though the Next Level Above Human Crew certainly would have taken advantage of the space aliens choice to find another planet to live on, but to provide a type of fertilizer for the growth of Souls, though did result in a corrupting of the genetic code, mental and physical but provided a free will training ground for upcoming Soul development.

For instance the Next Level could have opened up a highway (black hole, worm hole) so some from another planet could cross enormous linear distances in a very short time. In that case those traveling from a distant star system wouldn’t have to themselves live much longer than humans to accomplish.

It was TI and DO that were talking about “highways in the heavens” in 1975 because I was with them for 19 years and am known as Sawyer in documentaries about them and what became known as the Heaven’s Gate group. I remember DO talking about how the Next Level Older Members “drew” people from other planets to come to this earth vicinity to have the choice to enter into a new Astronaut Training Program on earth or not. Those that did not choose to enter the program became limited to earth and became that fertilizer (my word) to accelerate the growth of those who chose to enter the program. In other words once these space travelers got to the earth system they couldn’t just travel away from earth very far.

The Next Level started that Program because of the ones who were in a previous astronaut training program on earth and/or elsewhere and had graduated into elementary service in the Next Level but then dropped out of the program when they repeatedly went against their Older Member’s (Admiral and/or Captain’s) guidance and instructions.

These who went against the Next Level became documented in the current civilization as the “fallen angels” and among them one was named Lucifer, a beautiful name as “light bearer” who led the rebellion against the Next Level. As a result of their choices the Next Level decided to make a positive from their choices and started an experiment on earth to see if some who even came from other planets would choose to enter into the training program that included losing their human or human equivalent bodies so that their Soul bodies could find human vehicles (bodies) they had picked to enter the training program with and that is some of what we saw in the many so called UFO crashes in the 1940’s, 1950’s (and perhaps in the 1960’s) whose Souls were later seen as TI and DO’s Students who graduated by being in the Program for over 20 years, mostly, and then choosing to leave behind their human bodies in 1997 because that was the return method given to them by the Older Members in the Next Level, TI and DO.

Whenever someone says what is not possible, they are either slipping or they are simply not aware of what’s possible in that regard. I am impressed with Billy Carson’s research but that doesn’t mean all he thinks and/or his interpretation of his observations are correct. For instance why can’t it be possible for two people to mate and produce offspring that continue to mate and over thousands of years grow in numbers into the billions.

I’d also like to see his basis for the translation of the word, “Genesis” to something to the affect of “generate or genetic Isis, if that’s what he said. I believe in Hebrew it simply means the Beginning but yes it does proceed as a description of generations of human being development.

Now I’m not saying the story of Isis isn’t somewhat depicting genetic engineering or some form of artificial insemination as in general these human equivalent (evolutionarily speaking) space aliens do understand that technology and may have helped humans learn that technology, whether in a previous civilization on earth and/or among themselves from whatever planet they came from (speaking of Souls, not necessarily the dense physical bodies they have hybridized and grown to control (the same way humans do)), but it doesn’t make sense that Isis is like the mother of mankind except in the way humans are actually a type of corrupted genetic code, according to what the Next Level designs to be evolutionarily bodies/vehicles that could become the hosts for future members of the Next Level. I base what I say on some of TI and DO’s teachings.

When I say humans are a corruption, so in that sense a product of the Space Aliens Influence, humans came about as a result of choices made, according to the records, by Adam and then Eve. TI, DO’s Older Member said that Adam was the same Older Member Soul who was given the task of being tested by being subject to the Space Alien’s Influence, who later performed the tasks of Enoch, Moses, Elijah, Jesus and finally as DO. TI and DO wrote that Adams dense physical body was a Next Level Above Human grown body. The Bodies the Next Level grows for it’s membership are not mammalian nor reptilian and don’t reproduce, but when Adam broke procedures and gave in to the influence of whatever space aliens were allowed to influence him, he started a reverse metamorphosis of his physical Next Level grown body, that took place quickly and resulted in Adam and Eve acting like mammals in reproducing and thus becoming the first humans (not the first homo sapiens).

Thereafter they needed to experience working their way back into Next Level non-mammalian behaviors and ways that the Older Members of the Next Level Above Human knew would require many generations. So reproductive activity is one of the biggest forms of corruption because Members of the Next Level have outgrown that animal like condition. It’s never been a moral issue. It’s about the simple reality that to become a Member of the Next Level aka Kingdom in the literal outer space “heavens” one would not have the desire for that behavior and that growth needs to take place by having a human vehicle (body) to choose to abort signals to continue that behavior. Part of that process as applied to the entire current civilization has been recorded in the “commandments” – the requirements as set forth by Moses as a grade school like lesson plan that even today many humans choose to ignore (for instance thinking there is any justified reason for a human to kill or facilitate or vote for and/or support the killing of other humans. There are always other more evolved ways of dealing with people who become ill with violent behavior and ways).

Communication with the Next Level Above Human aka Kingdom of God in the literal Heaven’s of Deep Outer Space Where Space Aliens or Humans Can’t Go

I was talking to a friend who has recently chose to seek service to TI and DO’s Next Level Above Human by disseminating Their Information and seeking to overcome certain behaviors and ways that are not common to Members of the Next Level.

He was asking about how to recognize when TI and DO and Crew are answering his questions. I’ve tried to address what I believe was taught by TI and DO over their years incarnate and he had heard/read about this term called, “the feeler”. I remembered that term being used by TI and DO (then as Peep and Bo) in 1975 and believe I understood that it was even considered to be centered in the solar plexus area of the body. So I rounded out the talk a bit, for more of a general reader who may not have read or listened to much of the information left behind by TI and DO and Crew.

Yes, it is the “feeler”, which I will go into further later but it’s also about what’s in our heart though when grown represents the emotions of love for our Older Members and even for younger members of the Next Level, thus also towards student members, all representing a new Family that has or is in process of outgrowing (evolving) Beyond Human, beyond mammalian, beyond seed bearing plant life (human included).

But it’s also best to ask direct question as opposed to a general question, though it can at time be either. For instance I believe a completely valid question could be, “how can I be of service?” That has a general question but is direct that what you want is service. Of course the most primary way to seek answers at this time is to make this query but then dig into the information TI and DO and Crew left behind for us for the answers. While doing that, one can then ask specifics. Since dissemination of Their information is the “overriding” service to offer, the questions become, how, when, where and to whom can we disseminate Their Information. That is what we would continue to seek answers from the Minds to do.

I feel I know that they are on spacecrafts now but they have ways of receiving communications from our strong heart felt thoughts that are actually a band width of radio waves that the Next Level hasn’t taught humans how to identify and use, I presume so humans couldn’t interfere with the Next Level’s communications with humans and humans’ communications with them. (Jesus gave instruction to project one’s asking for service (Your will be done on earth) into the “heavens” – the elevated areas where the stars are). TI and DO said that projecting one’s asking into the Stars is a type of safeguard from the Space Aliens (in the ancient records speaking of Lucifer and his crew members, aka Fallen Angels) from picking up certain communications and then pretending to give that person an answer, which they love to try to do and that’s part of why certain people will say they asked “God” this and that and the so called “God” gave them an answer and that’s why they told their flock to think and do certain things that can even involve harming others in various ways. Sure it’s a “god” but not from the One True Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human who created the earth and all it’s life forms. Humans that still have some Next Level (Creators Mind, behaviors and ways) in them know better than to just go along with what someone tells them to do. They know better. The Next Level allows those “Lower forces” to be on the planet so to provide their influence on us so that we can recognize it better and better and reject it and grow beyond it, though that can be hard because most of the people on the world may not have much Next Level Mind in them so those that do become outcasts in various ways.

I believe DO said They have computer systems that can read humans as dots of light on a screen and when a human is seeking the truth about something and/or thirsting for new information and understanding and to solve certain problems like a cure for cancer, the Next Level Members are alerted to that desire as that light gets brighter and then they have procedures of seeing exactly what that human is asking for and determining whether they have procedures for answering their questions and if they don’t, then checking with Overseers of the task who then if need be would check with DO (in this example) and if need be DO would check with TI and if need be TI with TI’s Older Member on up to the Chief of Chiefs.

When TI and DO were both present we didn’t ask the direct questions to the Next Level, but that didn’t mean we couldn’t ask for strength and say the bombardment from the lower forces was too much, could ask the Next Level for help in that regard, to seek out a breather, so to speak from that bombardment, which the Next Level would give us, though the ideal would be to not need breathers and learn how to fend off the attacks of negativity and doubt.

Well after TI left, DO gave us the option to ask TI direct questions and to report to him if we felt we received an answer. When I tried it, I felt like I got an answer and reported it to DO and he said, “sounds like something TI might say” because he knew TI’s Mind quite well, though one can never be sure they “know” what their Older Member would for sure say.

Thus it often takes time to feel like one has the go ahead or the clarity to a question. When they would ask their Older Members a question, sometimes they wouldn’t get an answer and they felt that was because it wasn’t time for it, or they didn’t ask the right question so they would either put it on the back burner or think about the question.

It took many years for DO to feel like he understood a lot more about what a Soul was. They knew early on that it was a deposit and had physicality to it and that not every human was deposited with one. Later on DO realized that it had a “plasma like” physicality to it. At first DO called it a “pillow case” and/or a “pocket”. Later he liked to refer to it as a “container” which brings up how we get answers.

Answers are never absolute when the Older Member is not incarnate with us. In a sense they are never absolute but work for the time being in the circumstances in which they are given but it’s the nature of the Older Members to seek their Older Members current instruction and implement it and report to see if there would be updates to the implementation.

For instance, at first TI and DO felt it was their instruction that anyone who wanted to follow with them literally had to leave all behind to include family and friends. Those family and/or friends could also choose to follow but if they did they would cease having that previous relationship whatever it was. That last part never changed. But you can hear in audio tape 149 that TI says the leaving all behind wasn’t meant for humans. It was meant for those who recognized them and the task and wanted to give their all to being students of TI and DO who were incarnate. So all others were in a different category because they weren’t going to be with the Older Members physically to get instructions from directly so leaving all behind didn’t apply to them, though if they did their best with their lessons that all humans receive then they would at some point be faced with leaving all behind for the Kingdom of Heaven’s sake.

But the answer to what a soul was, developed. They talked about pulling in the parts to any answer. That can be heard in audio tape 25 – The Jail, to where they provide “new information”. They said they felt like they understood about 50% of that new information and said if we understood 50% of what they gave us, we’d be doing good.

But as to how the answers come, the Soul understanding demonstrates one way as I believe DO first heard the “container” description of the Soul from Bob Lazar’s report that Bob said he read in the “yellow book” that was allegedly written by a space alien race the government had some interface with. It talked about the human body being a container and that the soul was a container within a container. I may have some of that mixed up as to what DO realized was a Next Level perspective on the soul. It’s not that he just believed what he read in the Lazar report – it made sense to him – it seemed like it sounded like from his Older Member TI’s Mind. It jived with other aspects of the subject. So yes, there was a type of cross checking both TI and DO did regularly when they felt they were getting updates to give to their Class.

Another example of TI and DO feeling they received new information (answers) was when they told us all humans didn’t have souls and then less than a month later told us that wasn’t entirely accurate so to forget about it and then later DO got updates that there were different types of Soul Deposits. They also at first thought Souls were only deposited into infants of vehicles that Next Level student souls would be taking over to perform their tasks through. One can see in DO’s Final Exit that the Next Level could give a Soul deposit to anyone at any time and it could be because they simply showed curiosity in the information from them.

Another example was when they told us that Influences were discarnates – deceased human spirits and then sometime, even a few years later said that wasn’t 100% accurate, “but it worked” to think of it that way. DO later knew that there were other forms of Influences on us instead of just discarnates. He knew there were thought forms as well and knew that the Space Aliens were Souls who had been developing and growing hybrid vehicles by mixing their seed with humans which we heard was happening in many abduction cases.

But yes, the “Feeler” is the way TI and DO first spoke of seeking the will of the Next Level for us in day to day life. Our first implementation of growing that process that I believe all humans can have a sense of using, perhaps call it intuition, though of course the question arises as to who or what is providing that intuition – the lower forces or the Next Level Above Human. So, yes, TI and DO used one another the entire time they were together physically incarnate to “check” with the other as to what they were “feeling” to proceed on, in their case in any and all directions they would choose to “pull on” – another phrase TI and DO used for seeking the Next Level’s will for them. We have all TI and DO’s writings, audios and video’s now as guidelines to how they thought and behaved and what the goals are to qualify to be the recipient of continued Next Level training opportunities. Like they said in the Heaven’s Gate Book the same Classroom they started doesn’t apply to the current stage in being their student. That’s not to say one wouldn’t please TI and DO by trying to adhere to all the requirements they listed to join that classroom.

Using our Feeler is simple. Just ask the Next Level for their help and guidance in any choice and then proceed a step in the direction that feels right at the time and if at any point it does not feel right then put on hold or stop that direction and/or change course and proceed to ask and see how it feels. The way we first learned to implement this feeler development was when traveling and looking for a location to hold a meeting, looking for help with our needs of food, gasoline and sometimes shelter and/or for help with the printing of posters for meetings but most of all to be led to anyone in a town that might be looking for help to learn more about the Next Level. The Next Level will give you a sense of what you ask about. This can become a normal way in which to go about one’s life.

Sawyer’s critique of Mark’s Interview – Heaven’s Gate II: The Graduation by Bardo Methodology

Sawyer’s critique of Mark’s Interview – Heaven’s Gate II: The Graduation – 12-29-2022

The text of the Interview of Mark (Mrcody in TI and DO’s Group) by Niklas Göransson is included point by point with my critique. Here is the article link:

Heaven’s Gate II: The Graduation

A. Sawyer’s Introduction

I know some of what I will be responding to might be seen as nit picky and some of what I will be saying is giving my understanding and doesn’t necessarily negate what Mark (Mrcody) is saying. At the same time, it seems to me some of the more important perspectives and even events and instructions are being left out. I understand that at times each Student could have a different viewpoint or recollection, so at times I could be wrong, but I am trying to stick to what I experienced as best I can so that the reader can stand the best chance possible to garner what is most likely the most true or that there were multiple viewpoints that could even all be correct in some way. It’s not my intention to treat everything Mark says with suspicion. I don’t really care to be fault finding. That’s actually not one of the areas I’ve been told by TI and DO I needed to work on. And though I have said that certain things both Mark and Sarah (Srfody) have said over the years were untrue and even seemed like lies, I don’t know if they are lies or that they have repeated certain points of view and perspectives for so long that they believe they are being truthful or truthful enough.

DO talked about there existing “sins (missing the mark) of omission and sins of commission”. DO did not often refer to the records humans call scriptures but this quote does come from those Records. In this context Sins of Omission are when someone omits saying something that would provide a far more honest account that shows what really was said or done so needs to be said, while Sins of Commission in this context are when they say something against the Next Level Above Human. I believe this interview contains many examples of both sins of omission and commission against DO and against the Next Level Above Human and least of which against me and indirectly against Cathy and Carlan in Mark and Sarah’s lawsuit against us for freely sharing TI and DO’s fantastic information with the world. We know this is happening because the Lower Forces influlence people to keep the in depth understanding of what TI and DO and Crew were all about away from people and also to put a bad light on the entire story of TI and DO as after all if the ones running the Heaven’s Gate website for many years, given that task to among others to Mark and Sarah to keep fulfilling then many people think Mark and Sarah’s choices might be best reflecting of what TI and DO were all about. This seems to be the same Lower Forces stragegy used after Jesus left by trying to divert Jesus’ thunder to make a religion approved by the state out of it and then to become the religion called Christianity that gives Jesus a bad name because of their deceitful and manipulative and judgemental, dictatorial, condescending, murderous behaviors and ways.

What I have experienced in critiquing several of the email interviews Mark and/or Sarah have given over the years is that they often Omit what I feel are very important details. That seems to be the case here as well as it seems they downright add things, even directly talking about DO even saying things to Mark and Sarah that I don’t believe DO said that we can even show evidence that DO probably didn’t say. Sure they might have interpreted things DO said or twisted what he said to be something they could live with. But we have audio tapes of DO explaining things regarding Mark and Sarah’s being sent out of the Classroom that contradict what Mark says here in this interview. We also have Rkkody’s manuscript of the events that transpired after he and Mark and Sarah and Oscar (Oscody) received FedX packets from DO and Crew on March 25, 1997 that contradict big time Mark and Sarah’s version of that time. They don’t necessarily lie but they just omit talking about what happened in any detail or just get one thing wrong like the date which they can then say, Oh we just forgot about the date. They could have many excuses for what Mark says here that can be shown to be out right wrong or inaccurate.

The way the author of this article formatted his article was mostly starting the presumed email interview response from Mrcody (Mark) with a dash. I include the subject spoke about by the author as context. In my response I will refer to Mrcody as Mark and Srfody as Sarah, the first names they have used for years to date.

B. Start of Article by it’s author Niklas Göransson with Mark’s (Mrcody) answer followed by Sawyer’s (Swyody) replies:

Niklas:

The first part of this interview series chronicled Mrcody’s first twelve years in what we know today as Heaven’s Gate. We left off in the fall of 1987 as he went home to Phoenix, Arizona, to see his parents. At that point, Mrcody had not been back there since September 1975 when he made a quick visit to get his affairs in order before bidding his family goodbye. Along with him was his check-partner, Srfody.

1. Mark: (Mrcody):

– When returning to the families, we’d usually bring a Classmate we could bounce ideas off. They would help to clarify the situation if things got confusing. My family had grown used to me being away and thought of us as somewhat of a curiosity. We found ourselves distant from their views and way of life. We sat down, spoke with them, and tried to relay our story as clearly and positively as possible. We were kind and pleasant, as were they. Hoping to figure out what had happened to us, they asked careful questions. At times, it was like being examined – as if our views were unusual and it wasn’t really an issue whether we stayed or left. We felt the same way.

1. Sawyer (Swyody):

I was puzzled by this account of the event of Mark visiting his parents in 1987 as it indicates he was with Sarah. That would mean Sarah went on at least two trips to visit families as she went with me to visit my family at the same time period which in part I believe was because Sarah’s dad lived in the same town where my parents lived as Sarah and I were partners in the world before we both joined with TI and DO from the Waldport, OR meeting on September 14, 1975. I was on the airplane with her when I visited my family and briefly went to her house in Plainview, NY (but I was not really welcomed there so left before seeing anyone).

This 1987 visit was the second such visit we ever did as a Group. The first visit was around late September or early October of 1983 when TI was still in her vehicle. Like I said on the first visit if there were exceptions where more than one classmember went together to visit one’s family member, I didn’t know about it and I doubt that happened. On that 1983 visit I went alone to NY and others also went alone. I welcomed back to the Class a number of other students who came back alone because they went alone. This is important to me to make note of as with the many critics of TI and DO, I can hear some saying something to the effect of, “this is what cults do…they send someone else to keep tabs on the other, to keep them from saying something the leaders didn’t want them to say,” etc. So that blows that criticism out of the water that on the first visit most if not all went alone.

On the second visit in 1987, thus after TI left her vehicle in June of 1985, I recall DO saying he was sending other students to visit with our families so our parents and siblings, etc. could see the kind of people we were living with in the Class. Thus at my second visit in 1987 Ollody and Jwnody (and Srfody (Sarah)) visited with my parents and siblings and others at my parents house. I also went to visit with Jwnody’s mother and I believe Ollody and perhaps Sarah was there as well. It was a brief meeting with Jwnody’s mother. I didn’t actually talk with her nor any other members of her family. They wanted to be alone.

On that second visit I wasn’t with another classmate hardly at all. I was mostly alone. During the day I arrived I was alone with my parents and siblings talking. No other students were with me until Ollody and Jwnody and Srfody came to my parents house and stayed for maybe an hour. After that I was alone with them until my dad took me to Kennedy International Airport to return to Colorado.

Mark makes it sound like this was some kind of regular occurrence Perhaps he’s prone to exaggerating certain facts to appeal to those who accused us of neglecting family. I don’t know why he’d use the word, “usually” re: such visits as there was nothing “usual” about them. It certainly wasn’t “usual” to bring a Classmate either as we only had two visits in 19 years I was with Them and I thought only the second one included bringing another classmate.

I don’t know why Mark says the other classmate went with him or others to “bounce ideas off of” as on my two visits if I had wanted to bounce ideas off of someone I could just call the Group collect. In fact while on my visit I did call the group. On my visits there wasn’t much to coordinate. On the second visit when Sarah and I traveled by air together, I don’t recall we came back together. I didn’t need anyone to bounce ideas off of. Maybe for his visit he needed that help but I had no ideas to do anything else but what I did and for me it was easy to answer their questions.

I recall the primary instructions with both visits was that our effort was to try to “relieve any anxiety” of these family members by showing them some of what we were doing and that we were free to leave and were happy. (We had no prep to put up a false happiness front. If we weren’t happy TI and DO would have had us leave the Group well before that). I was genuinely happy in the Group so I didn’t have to try to put up some front of happiness. TI and DO did spend several hours meeting with us going over our questions.

Since I am speaking of the visits and in particular the first visit in 1983 here are some notes from audio tape 63 where TI and DO present the visit task potential and help students know how to handle certain questions, not to give them a script but to handle the task as a Member of the Next Level would in that circumstance that even involves a certain amount of strategy. After all, TI and DO knew loved ones were not going to really comprehend what their loved one’s had chosen and why as we were embarking on something that for many seems crazy. So some might still have great bitterness at their loved one’s choices and may even blame us for others in the families failing health as if those things would not have happened had we stayed close to that family unit. Yet TI and Do also didn’t feel to let someone talk to us in a derogatory manner but try to express understanding while knowing they had a right to their choices in life, in this case to be apart from what others might consider to be a normal family life. Many won’t believe much of what we believe. DO felt like Nancy Brown really grew from her suffering They didn’t say that lightly. They said they suffered because of the suffering of those family members but that it was needed for a student to detach from their human family and put the kind of effort needed for an extended time of bonding with the Family unit of their Older Members whom they recognized.

Ti and Do were concerned for our security so that anyone that did want to interfere with our choice to stay in the group couldn’t easily find us. They also knew because of the Network of parents that understandably were wanting to know about their loved ones, that we wanted to give them hope of further connection with us while not expecting a close relationship because of the major task each student needed to focus on to qualify to graduate into Next Level Membership. TI and DO even spoke about how anyone could do whatever they wanted to do in the Class but then laughed that if that’s what they wanted to do they wouldn’t find themselves staying in the Classroom but it was all about choices. They even said if a student found they wanted to stay with their family to just please send them a card or call to tell them about that choice.

Hearing Mark describing his visit, I wondered why would DO have Mark go to visit his family with Sarah. Well, it was possible Mark and Sarah were assigned partners at that time. DO, being in TI’s service, though TI was outside her vehicle, had an uncanny connection with TI to where he was just following instructions to choose to form certain partnerships with other students. I don’t think it was an accident that Sarah went with me and come to think of it, as it turned out Sarah being sent with Mark, as if there was an element of the same kind of test. In other words TI would have known that Mark and Sarah were forming their own relationship with one another. As soon as they got back from the visit Mark was showing his lack of abiding by the “I could be wrong” program and as Carlan (Crlody) told me he learned in the group (evidenced by DO in audio tapes) that they didn’t want to change their partnership when it came up and that was in part why they left together. Partnerships changed all the time. There were some times I didn’t want to change partnerships as some partners were too stressful to be with and with some partners there was chemistry that needed to be overcome thus would put one to the test to have certain partners. It would seem that Mark and Sarah were one such partnership and DO had instructions to put them together as a partnership to test what they each wanted, a relationship with one another or a relationship with him only.

Even though I knew nothing then of the relationship Mark and Sarah were forming, that even they might not have fully realized, it showed itself when they left the class together though nothing was ever said that I heard about why Sarah was leaving with Mark until Crlody expressed what he did to me.

So it seems Mark is either forgetting what he was developing with Sarah while still in the Class or has blocked what was happening or is directly lying to try to quell the truth to save certain embarrassments because I have been talking about them for years and telling my perspective as a witness to how and why and when they were sent out of the Class. Mark has denied everything I said about it. Could I misremember every aspect? I don’t think so as that was a major event and we have DO in audio tapes talking about how Mark and Sarah had been in relationship to one another and no longer looking to him so that’s the proof that my remembrance and Carlan (Crlody’s) remembrance are far more accurate than what Mark is saying here and that they have said to Gizmodo and other media groups about their departure. Mark’s way seems to be to just leave out most of the truth.

But Speaking of lying, the problem with doing so is forgetting what the lies they told were. Here is an example of their changing their story:

Mark and Sarah were reported to have said in one of the first email interviews they gave to the author in a piece for Gizmodo. They were asked why they left the group and they responded:

“We left the Group in September, 1987 because we were going to take care of some other things in our lives… Free will and choice are the cornerstone of what anyone does, especially in the Next Level. Individuals in the Group could come and go as those chose to do, and many did just that over the years. We had an open door policy, and it swung both ways. People came and went all the time.”

So Mark says they left to take care of some things in their lives. But I thought Mark said in this interview in point number 4; “I don’t know why Srfody was sent along with me, but she was expected back soon..”. Plus note Mark said “…we left to take care of things…” but he said, “Srfody was sent along with me…”. SENT is the keyword here. The third part to this one sentence is “…sent to take care of some things…”. Doesn’t that indicate foreknowledge of things to take care of before they left, things to take care of together? It makes it sound like they had a plan to leave?

Then Mark and Sarah said, “…Individuals in the Group could come and go as those chose to do, and many did just that over the years. We had an open door policy, and it swung both ways. People came and went all the time.”

I get it, they seem to want to tell the public they were not a cult that holds people against their will which is true totally. But then they go to far with that as no one who expected to stay in the group could come a go as they chose to. If someone walked out the door and went to the store and came back, they would have been challenged with either never doing that again or with leaving the group and being helped to leave. And then they might never have the opportunity to come back as for one after someone left, as a matter of security of not being found by investigators we learned were looking for us, we would literally move to a new location sometimes in the same city but even same state. There were people sent out of the Class in 1976 that TI and DO lost touch with unintentionally years later who never sought very hard to find the group while a few did look for us and found us and rejoined when they did and DO found out about them. That was the case with Drrody and Stlody and some others. So it’s another totally false statement to say, “People came and went all the time” and unless Mark and Sarah had both become very senile some time before this Gizmodo article was written in september 2014 they seem to be directly lying.

Moving on, I think the same thing about Sarah being sent with me to visit families – it was a test of whether each of us wanted to be with one another or not. DO also talked about Sarah having entertained an influence she didn’t know about that was trying to use her to get me to not join the Class and/or to get me out of the Class. On my visit with her accompanying me on the airplane at one point sitting next to her on the plane it felt very strange as if she was intentionally rubbing her leg on mine. Also on that visit we for some reason found ourselves at a Baskin and Robbins in what was once upon a time both our home town and it stirred a memory I had of being with her there when we first got together in that town in about 1970. I fluffed it off as I also did with her sitting so close on the plane.

This was not new to me as one time in the 1980’s Sarah and I were partners in the Juice Lab and during our being on duty we had to work together to measure ingredients into these Pink Drinks we were consuming. Sarah was standing right up against me at one point. I was a bit shocked by it but was afraid of saying something or of pulling away abruptly to send her a message. I just ignored it thinking she didn’t mean to do it. It was some years later that Srrody told me Sarah had done the same thing to him. I didn’t know where to put that in my head so just ignored it. But well before that it was Sarah who had gone into a closet with Alxody and were “feeling one another up” in there. That got reported to the entire Class. I’m not sure who first reported it but I think it was Alxody who couldn’t stand to keep it hidden. These things, when I began to think of them reminded me of when Sarah and I joined the Class in 1975. We left Waldport/Newport together with Ron and Judy to meet up with the Class in Fruita, at the Colorado National Monument. We first drove to eastern Oregon and on that first night sleeping together in our zip together sleeping bag that we’d used for years as a couple to sleep in I was surprise that she seemed to be coming on to me, something she hadn’t done for years as I was almost always the instigator of relations. This was after we had both decided to join and knew we were taking a vow of celibacy. So in audio tape 847 where DO talked about my leaving I was blinded to how Influences wanted me to go to Phoenix area to stay with Mark and Sarah who were in that area since being sent out of the Class together.

When I got to their house the first and only thing I remember Sarah saying to me for the couple weeks I was there was “none of that sex stuff”. I had no conscious desire to have sex with her. All the years of the Classroom, I no longer had any attraction to her but I guess from what DO said, there was some kind of Influence with me that wanted to go to where she was. That influence even seemed to blind me to that desire. At that time I was so confused with why I was giving into sensuality with myself that I’m not surprised I don’t recall much.

In November of 2021, when I visited with Mark and Sarah at their lawyers office, which was the result of Cathy’s efforts to arrange, to try to resolve the conflict we’d had for years of their allowing me/us to do the dissemination task in whatever way I/We felt to do it, I had zero interest in seeing her or relating to her in any way. In fact I was repulsed by both she and Mark because of how they were going against TI and DO’s wishes with the Audio Tapes and other of their property that they were supposed to only be the dividers of, not the exclusive caretakers, managers and disseminators of, while not ever really disseminating any of the audios or the other materials beyond the minimum of keeping up the website. I never minded what they didn’t do but I really minded their trying to keep myself and Crlody and Rkkody and now Cathy from doing our own dissemination task that includes having access to all the audio tapes especially.

I hesitated saying all this publicly but Mark in this interview is so full of partial truths and seemingly outright lies and deceit and manipulation of other’s view of history that I have to tell it like it is from my experience and perspective.

Niklas:

After the trip, Mrcody and Srfody resumed their service in one of the Class’ lodgings – a house, or ‘craft’, in the suburbs of Boulder. A few weeks later, both of them were out of the Group.

2. Mark:

– There has been a lot of misinformation and ink given to this topic, so we might as well put it on record and let people know what happened. Something had come up about me being assigned a new Out of Craft (OOC) task right around the same time we were deliberating whether to leave the area. This occurred only a few weeks before the move to Atlanta. We had just purchased a rear-drive Cadillac, and I realized that – in a mountainous, snowy area – it might not be able to handle the job it would be required to do. I mentioned this issue to some individuals, and it made its way back to Do that I was bringing up ‘problems’ where it wasn’t needed.

2. Sawyer:

Mark says he wants to “put it on record” what happened to clear up the misinformation and the way he goes about it is to be about as vague as one could get as to what exactly happened. Talking about his getting an OOC Task. Who was talking about it, Classmates? DO? And what was wrong with talking about it? What happened to his applying TI and DO’s teachings to be thorough and detailed in communications? What about that was an issue in their leaving the group? What it seems to be is one of the “straws that broke the camel’s back” in his using and trusting his own mind. It’s fine in the world to trust one’s own mind but being with our Older Members, at that time, Students needed to apply seeking to only trust the Minds of TI and DO or don’t stay in Their program/classroom, which is what happened.

Then the subject of the Cadillac… What about that was an issue in their leaving the group? And how was DO involved in any of this? Again it sounds like his issues here were between him and fellow students. DO was not such a leader/teacher that he believed what any student told him about any kind of conflict or disagreement. He and TI talked about that in meetings that are on tapes and I believe I witnessed that when I was assigned to be in SAT 3, which was when Mark and Sarah were still in the Class, though I was then mostly an observer. SAT 3 stood for Satellite 3 and referred to a task assignment for a group of Students who TI and DO worked on organizational needs of the group.

To me these two points without any details are, whether conscious or not, like a smoke screen to appear to be addressing the subject but then only giving it tiny lip service. If anything, to me it does the opposite of what he says he intends to do – to “set the record straight”.

Mark writes:

“the automobile issue raised the notion that it was part of the whole ‘I could be wrong’ Mrcody problem. Certain people brought up instances of how I, over time, had made statements which seemed to confirm this attitude.”

Yes, fellow classmates were bringing things up where Mark had made statements which seemed to confirm the attitude that Mark didn’t think he could be wrong about. This even stems from 1982 or so when TI and DO saw that he needed to be “muted” for becoming a “wagon master” and/or “trail boss” when there were no trail bosses in the Next Level so Students needed to learn to operate as crew members that don’t have one person calling the shots.

So regarding the Cadillac. I don’t know what happened with this. However I do know something about how things worked in the group. For instance if Mark was on the crew that was looking for a car to buy or assessing a car DO was considering buying then no one would have anything to say about Mark talking about it or the way he was talking about it was with confidence in his own assessment thus not like a member of the Next Level would think or talk.

However, I’d guess he wasn’t on the car buying crew. He’s not providing enough details of what the problem was. Perhaps he felt to say something because as a member of SAT 3, (a crew who were all responsible to bring to Links attention things that might be a breach of security or in this case safety in driving a rear wheel vehicle in a snowy area. If he felt that responsibility then if not on the crew his recourse was to write a note to DO about it. Even if they bought a car that was the wrong decision, there is most always a grace period where one could return it. When someone is very sure of themselves, they often have a lot of trouble restraining themselves.

Mark writes, “We had just purchased a rear-drive Cadillac…” So this was put into the past tense. Thus it seems the deal had been made and I’m sure DO was very much in on all the details of the deal. DO was a 100% hands on leader. Often Lggody was instrumental in buying cars as he was tall and with white hair and in his 50’s probably at that time. He also had a strong air of a business person because in the world he was a successful horse rancher and real estate developer and family man and I’ve heard had political inclinations. Also in the Class at times he worked as a car salesman. So he knew how to talk the trade.

Now Mark could have been privy to talk about the car they were intending to purchase. So Mark reports he “mentioned this issue to some individuals” (regarding it being a rear wheel drive car in a snowy area). It really sounds like Mark may have been putting his nose into another Crews business. He had that tendency from what TI and DO said in audio tape 37 I think it was. Again there could have been a way to bring things up but if he wasn’t presenting it according to procedure to preface it with something of a equivalence to “I could be wrong” then he was missing the lessons step.

This all seems to reinforce the idea that he did leave because he had too much self confidence in his own opinion and didn’t know when he could be wrong with his opinions. That’s not the way of a Next Level Crew Member so he was called out on it and didn’t feel to change that about himself thus the only recourse DO had was to send him to be outside the Classroom until he might want to change and then he could return. He never did want to return to the Classroom yet at this time in 2021 we’ve even seen evidence that he thinks he is a member of the Heaven’s Gate crew left behind to carry on Their legacy, while keeping others away from Their vast audio tape library and other materials except for token minimum maintenance of the web site – answering some emails and giving certain materials to media groups, etc.

So this seems to be what Mark and Sarah have done. They came to believe that they and only they had all authority over all the left behind information and they became ready to sue anyone who breached their claimed authority.

Niklas:

I’ve come across a number of claims that Mrcody’s departure stemmed from his inability to adhere to a lesson step called ‘I could be wrong’. This was a technique designed to decrease reliance on the self – and one’s own desire to be right – by overriding both soft and hard-wired circuits of the brain. Instead, complete trust should be placed in one’s Older Members, which is Next Level nomenclature for a superior.

3. Mark:

– Things spiraled out of control until we had a support meeting on September 22, 1987. Do realized that the idea of me getting an OOC task had not come from him but from Classmates who were unaware of what the future held. We got past this matter, but the automobile issue raised the notion that it was part of the whole ‘I could be wrong’ Mrcody problem. Certain people brought up instances of how I, over time, had made statements which seemed to confirm this attitude. Needless to say, it was a difficult meeting for me. Afterwards, Do wanted to speak to me privately, and we did so for a while. He could see that I did not want to go, but circumstances were forcing things to a head. Srfody and I left the following day.

3. Sawyer:

-Help Wanted Meeting for Mark:

Regarding what Mark called “a support meeting,” I recalled the meeting name was being called by TI and DO and Crew a “Help Wanted Meeting” which I attended on Sept 22nd 1987, (that I recall Overseers, Jwnody and Chkody called for Mark, that I’m sure DO knew about though as was procedure Help Wanted Meetings were never attended by TI and/or DO, though there was an assigned note taker, (often Mllody and/or Sngody who sent them, or in this case sent DO, since TI wasn’t in her vehicle any longer at that time, a report of what transpired.

The way I recall that meeting, Mark sat in the front of the big room and students who had some ideas of how to help Mark made their suggestions. The procedure for the recipient was to thank the students for their input. I don’t recall Mark saying anything. He just seemed to take it and Classmates were not rude or condescending to him but certainly were direct, while knowing and expressing they could be wrong about how they were suggesting they’d been taught to help someone with this or any other problem in the Classroom.

I don’t know how thankful Mark was for what he was offered, as of course he was aware of what others would say as advise, but one never knows what one had ceased to apply so the meetings could help. Over the 19 years in the Class I would say there were probably 4 or 5 of these kinds of meetings.

-Mark writes:

“Do realized that the idea of me getting an OOC task had not come from him but from Classmates who were unaware of what the future held.”

This is very odd. It is possible that Overseers of the Craft, at that time I think, were Jwnody and Chkody and as was often the case that I witnessed could have tasks to suggest partnership changes to DO and could have had, even an ongoing task to make suggestions to DO of who might get an OOC-Task. (OOC stood for “Out of Craft”. Since we referred to our residence as a spacecraft, a new term for our house – to help prepare our Minds for literally moving into a spacecraft, though we didn’t decorate the craft to look like a spacecraft. It also sort of turned off the vocabulary we used before entering TI and DO’s Class).

So I suppose Mark could have become aware or overheard Overseers talking about his getting an OOC Task. But there is no way any students would have come up with the idea on their own unless DO had opened that door. I mean DO could have been talking about his concern that our income was not as good as it needed to be to match expenses, so I suppose some students could have considered that idea of adding to the OOCT personal and talked about it out loud ahead of mentioning it to DO, but by in large no Students would even talk about that without having the OK from Headquarters (DO). The area of a craft that was where the SAT 3 Crew did most of their work was very small. It had a dining room size table in the middle. There could be several different tasks going on at the same time though some in SAT 3 would go to a rest chamber (bedroom) if they needed privacy. I believe I remember that if someone was doing a task even right next to you that you weren’t a part of, you would make a point to not pay attention to what they were doing. You would proceed with your own tasks. I know that Mark was very keen to what was going on in SAT 3 and the Craft which as a part of SAT 3 was part of his task but that TI and DO indicated he’d taken it to an extreme to even seek to know how Srrody brushed his teeth, if I recall, though perhaps DO wasn’t being exact in saying that on an audio tape.

By Mark saying “Do realized that the idea of me getting an OOC task had not come from him but from Classmates who were unaware of what the future held.” is pretty strange. Of course if DO didn’t instigate the idea He would have known he didn’t instigate the idea.

Then Mark makes it sound to me that Mark is insinuating that only he or only a few knew of the pending move. It’s hard to believe that Overseers wouldn’t have known as much as he about any impending move. Again as Mark does so often he says things that seem to show himself in a good light rather than take the correction of admitting his own mistakes and getting on with it. Instead he frequently puts the blame on Classmates for not being aware and on DO for not having “realized” something.

So he brings this up as an example of “things spiraled out of control” but then says, “We got past the matter…”. Who is “We” in this statement? Wouldn’t it either be DO and/or he and/or certain Classmates? And what about this pertained to his leaving the Group, if “they” got past it?

But perhaps it does have something to do with his leaving in his mind as it sounds like he was putting his head into things he had no business doing as it wasn’t his task to be concerned about his getting an OOC Task or not. A Student of TI and DO wants to do whatever tasks they are given to do. It doesn’t have to make sense to us. Even if Students stimulated the idea in DO’s Mind, DO wouldn’t ever take that as gospel. He would take it to TI (who at that time was outside her vehicle but who DO felt was close to him at times). He had a real connection with TI. Nothing imaginary about it.

This seems to show Mark is in denial that the “I could be wrong” lesson step was in fact seen by Students (and DO) as a big “problem” for him. To me this sounds a little sarcastic to say; “but the automobile issue raised the notion that it was part of the whole ‘I could be wrong’ Mrcody problem. That is how I did remember it all, that Mark’s Help Wanted Meeting was because he didn’t want to always used “I could be wrong” as a preface to stating a judgment of some kind. There were extremes to the use of that phrase but TI and DO didn’t spell them all out.

To me, Mark makes it sound as if he believes the fellow students were making it all up. In many organizations there could have been contention between members, and there was some in our group of course but DO was aware of everything because it was likely that each student would report to him the difficulties they had so he could help them and others and thus even help the entire Group get past their conflicts.

Mark admits a “support meeting” was held for him. Part of the structure of those meetings was to offer the one requested the meeting or assigned to have a meeting help in the area they requested it. The meeting was designed for fellow students to try to recall all the ways Ti and Do taught to deal with lesson steps.

It seems that for Mark to recognize that he had that “I could be wrong” problem is too embarrassing to admit. Since Mark is very intelligent in some ways and a very quick thinker and is very witty, he may think so much of himself that having anyone offer him correction is perhaps extremely difficult to hear or accept, so he seems to put off his mistakes on others like Rkkody in 1997 big time and to date, on Crlody (Carlan) then and to date, on me (Swyody) big time for many years and to date and Jhnody, of late and even my partner Cathy, but filing lawsuits against us all (except not yet on Jhnody). And DO says in audio tapes that Sarah (Srfody) added to his inflation of himself (paraphrased).

Should he admit to the events of his own making that led to DO sending him out of the Class further f actualizes that he had and by this very interview and many other actions that he still has that same problem and perhaps even more than before. It may be that the only way he can think of to try to keep his egotistical image alive and Sarah’s is by attempting to discredit me and the rest of us who were mentioned above. He and Sarah seem to look down on us in various ways as if they are such great servants of TI and DO. Even though they probably would deny all of this as they have denied aspects of it that I have asked them about directly years ago but more and more seemed to be right on as one of the explanations for their wanting to keep people from hearing TI and DO’s own words about them in the audio tapes.

I believe the Next Level’s TI and DO literally put them to the test and though they have done some of the tasks they were given involving handling some of their mail, and keeping up the web site and sending out some video tapes and the bear minimum of audio tapes, on the main task it appears they have been failing from adhering to what DO actually asked them to do, case in point being stated in their Letter from DO and Crew stating, “any items of value [in storage] that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our [DO and The Classes] information”. They say they intended on doing that but weren’t until Swyody and Crlody stopped and gave them back all the audio tapes we got from Rkkody and of late from Jhnody.

This is a huge example of how the Lower Forces can slip into us to have us literally act like we support TI and DO while persecuting their servants who want to spread their Truth which is the primary task at this time that every believer can choose to accept in service to TI and DO.

DO would have not permitted such a Help Wanted Meeting unless he felt there was good reason for the meeting. DO and Ti were very hands on leaders/teachers. And they were not at all easily fooled by students and knew that some students reports were not believed and so they would often seek out the person who a student made a claim against to see the facts.

Again, where are the details that led up to his thinking about leaving the class or did DO bring up his leaving when he met with DO after the Help Wanted meeting? I know when I reported to DO how I wasn’t following certain procedures, DO asked me, on two separate occasions what I wanted to do about it. I suggested calling my own Help Wanted meeting. The second time it came up, I said to DO, “I guess I have to leave” and he said okay, “you want to get more objective”. Then he told me to give the phone to another classmate and he told them to tell the others in the group “not to try to talk Swyody out of leaving the class because he knew what he was doing”.

In the case of Mark, what were the exact circumstances that forced things to a head? – the talk about OOC Tasks? – the talk about his inappropriate suggestions about the Cadillac they (Do and Crew) bought, perhaps not consulting with him about, and/or the other things brought up to him in the Help Wanted meeting?

DO was in no way a trivial person. He valued each student. I know this from personal experience working with DO as an Overseer and even being assigned to help Hvvody and Rthody when they were contemplating leaving. This last statement from Mark makes it sound to me like he believes DO based sending him out of the Group on a whim, because of these few things students said Mark said.

And if Mark truly didn’t want to leave, why is it that, from Mark’s remembrance, after he alleges that DO indicated to him that he (DO) had “made a mistake” – since DO was the one who sent him out of the Group, and said that DO “understood that the cure had been worse than the disease and called many days in a row to get us to come back,” which makes DO look somewhat desperate to get him back in the group, MARK DID NOT RETURN. Why didn’t Mark and Sarah return? And why is it that I remember DO giving Mark and Sarah a car and their being upset that it was the worse car we had at the time. Maybe I don’t remember that right but perhaps that’s one of the many details Mark leaves out here.

Niklas:

Like Mrcody, Srfody joined the Group after a September 1975 meeting in Waldport, Oregon – a gathering which saw about twenty people bid friends and relatives farewell and commit wholeheartedly to overcoming their mammalian behavior Today, the two of them serve as proprietors of the Heaven’s Gate website and all intellectual property left behind by the Class.

Sawyer: I could be wrong but believe I recall DO saying in a tape that there were 34 who joined from having attended the Waldport, OR meeting they gave on September 14, 1975.

4. Mark:

– I don’t know why Srfody was sent along with me, but she was expected back soon. They expressed as much to her by phone on September 24, but she could see how devastated I was from being asked to leave. She stayed. Within days, Do realized that a mistake had been made and asked us to return at once. He understood that the cure had been worse than the disease and called many days in a row to get us to come back. Do and his helpers had already left for Atlanta to perform some groundwork before the move, so those still in Boulder would’ve heard nothing about this.

4. Sawyer:

Mark writes that he didn’t know why Srfody was sent along with him. Right there his wording indicates he was “sent” to be outside the Group as opposed to leaving on his own accord as many others did. He also said in point #3 that “He [DO] could see that I did not want to go, but circumstances were forcing things to a head.”

But there is another part to this that puzzles me. I asked Carlan (Crlody) what was said while he was in the Group about Mark and Sarah’s leaving and if I recall accurately he told me their leaving had something to do with Mark and/or Sarah not wanting to change partnerships they had with one another.

I had no sense that Srfody planned to return. In fact, when it was settled that they were both going to be leaving the Class, DO instructed us say something to both of them. We lined up to take turns to say it to them. What we were instructed to say was something to the effect of, “You are welcome to come back if you both want to follow all our procedures”. If Sarah was “expected back soon” why did DO have us say that to both of them at that same time, in person.

Why be general, to say, “They expressed as much to her by phone on September 24…”. Who was “they” and what did they express to her? Did they ask her to come back or not?

Then Mark says, “she could see how devastated I was from being asked to leave”. Isn’t that a contradiction from being “sent along with me” to being in the next sentence saying they were “asked to leave”. Maybe Mark is not being that particular with the words he chooses here but given the vast amount of things he says that have little to no truth to them, words are all we got to show his contradictions so to hopefully arrive at the truth.

I could be wrong but they really seem to be doing a disservice to TI and DO at this point.

I would not be hardly talking about this if he and Sarah hadn’t waged this huge lawsuit against me, Cathy and Carlan attempting to devastate us financially for playing some audio tapes on my live-stream and selling some T shirts with images on them that they illegally trademarked and copyrighted, having no documents at all (according to Judge Lisa Guy Schall) to show that DO and Crew wanted that sort of thing done to their images and writing and audios and video’s or they would have done that themselves.

But pertaining to Sarah (Srfody) choosing to stay with a student (Mark) who didn’t want to follow all the procedures of DO’s Classroom, instead of returning to that same Class is in my view nothing short of either a lie or a gross mis-construction of what happened and a complete avoidance of taking their own responsibility for why they were literally “sent” out of the Class because of their own choices.

This would have been unheard of for a student of one’s Older Member choosing to leave their Older Member (DO) to be with another student that was asked/told to leave – if they didn’t want to follow all the procedures. Reading this in this interview causes me to reflect on the many initial students who left the Class, how and why. I don’t know all the “why’s” exactly but I doubt anyone left to go with another student. This was a unique circumstance.

DO has spoken in a number of audio tapes about Mark and Sarah’s being sent out of His Class and how they were looking to one another and not to him. If DO had said to Sarah to leave with Mark to help him, I would think DO would have told Mark and others that he sent Sarah to do such a task but I never heard that then nor heard it in any of the tapes we have about their leaving. Sarah may have said that to Mark or to one of DO’s helpers on the telephone I guess possibly to DO on the telephone but, by the evidence of what DO said in audio tapes the idea of Sarah being sent with Mark never happened.

In fact, it seems Mark giving this interview where he attempted to smear my reputation with claims that were not true the way he said it, may be a last ditch effort to try to save face to give people the impression that I’m making all this up regarding my first hand witness testimony of the events surrounding he and Sarah’s being sent out of the Class.

But if that strategy to try to discredit me as a reliable witness in some respect was on his mind for this interview his strategy is shot to hell because we have all the audio clips of what DO was thinking and doing in relationship to Mark and Sarah’s even going against DO in some respects. There appears to be a tape or two not available around that time. Some may be missing. For instance Mark said there were 1061 audio tapes. We have about 930. The 930 go into 1997. If the 131 or so tapes Mark still has were all recorded in 1997 as it appears then that would have meant DO made a tape at least every day from January to March 22nd when they began to leave. That is very unlikely but I’d love to know for sure if Mark would allow people to have them. What is he hiding. I’m not afraid to hear what’s on any of the tapes. There is one about my leaving that was difficult to hear but I’ve heard it or read the transcript 3 times now.

Niklas:

A meeting was called two weeks after the Group’s relocation to Peachtree, Atlanta. Do announced that he, ever since the move – and to his great dismay – could no longer feel Ti’s presence. Ti was Do’s Older Member, and he relied on her for guidance. Ti’s human container expired in 1985, so their correspondence was restricted to the ethereal plane. Consequently, the students quit their new jobs, packed up, and left for Colorado again.

5. Mark:

– To this day, many who remain from that time erroneously think we were kicked out because of ‘I could be wrong’. This became a watershed moment and Do realized that things needed to be corrected. But Srfody and I remained in Phoenix – not out of rejecting Do’s request, but because the Classroom still had these misunderstandings and none of them were being addressed. The back and forth went on into October, but things turned quiet after the new year. We resumed contact in late 1988.

5. Sawyer:

Again, Mark is blaming both DO and their Classmates for the reasons they were sent out of the Group. And he says nothing about perhaps being “wrong” in his observation/interpretation. I don’t know if this is deliberate, a story he and/or Sarah conjured up to try to combat the truth that I and many other former class members know or if they have told themselves this story for so long that that’s the way they remember it. I suspect it’s a little of both. Their noses are growing very, very long with what they are directly insinuating and their justifying themselves for getting kicked out. And the saddest part is that they have told Cathy and I that they believe both TI and DO are Older Members from the Next Level Above Human.

Cathy as a new believer in TI and DO and anyone else who has listened to their audio tapes and read their materials can also see right through this smokescreen. Cathy said to me in response to this fifth statement from Mark, that if “DO realized that things needed to be corrected He would have corrected things. DO would have held a meeting and/or spoke to the Class-members who according to Mark, “still had these misunderstandings” and blames DO once again, saying that “none of them [the misunderstandings] were being addressed”. And if there were misunderstandings among class members, since they were no longer in the Class how did they know DO didn’t address the alleged misunderstandings. Mark and Sarah assume so much and are taking no responsibility for their own failures as Class Members demonstrating exactly why they were sent out of the Class in the first place.

In other words they are saying DO failed to lead the class members That seems to mean Jwnody and Chkody and/or others were guilty of misunderstandings since they were the Overseers who called for the Help Wanted Meeting Mark talks about here. But Jwnody and Chkody and/or others were never “muted” for being a Trail Boss. Mark and Sarah might want to listen to audio tape 037 AB from 12/17/1982 – particularly the part that sis summarized in the log file that says, “Older Member is right no matter what – don’t compete or think you remember better – take the blame, wouldn’t blame them.”

For those that balk at this idea that the Older Member is right no matter what, it happens to be a fact because humans are all different in their capacity to perceive who is literally significantly Beyond them because most humans judge one another based on their financial success, looks, degrees, societal position, popularity, fame, intellect as they perceive it and/or Spiritual Stature. What many don’t know is what they often don’t know about reality and how Souls are real and have been here before and have experienced many things in previous lifetimes that others have not, which enables them to know more about certain realities and no longer have much if any desire to climb social or career ladders.

TI and DO, (The Souls who took the human vehicles and used those names) really were from The Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human, they didn’t bring into their conscious Minds all they knew for the sake of the task, but their perceptions were Beyond Human. It’s like working under the Captain of a ship. If a third class seaman in the Navy competes with the Captain they will have to be removed from that crew so they don’t interfere with the functions the Captain is in charge of. We who became students of TI and DO recognized TI and DO as our Admiral and Captain. We could have left at any time if we didn’t want to abide by all the procedures they gave us to follow. The Classroom always was an Next Level Astronaut Training Program. So when Mark and Sarah didn’t want to follow the procedure of acknowledging that they at any time “could be wrong” in their opinions, they ceased qualifying to be in the training program thus DO had to send them out of the Class until they chose to abide by all the Procedures.

Niklas:

How was your experience of re-integrating into society?

6. Mark:

– We used our skills from the Class and applied them to various human projects, all of which we excelled in. We soon bought autos and a house as we advanced in our careers. We’ve built many successful businesses from scratch by now. Do noted that we had pushed higher and further than any other former members. While there was never much emphasis on the human experience, he did inform us that applied effort and a concentrated desire to serve were Next Level attributes noticeable in any endeavor Our intention was still to serve the Next Level.

6. Sawyer:

Listen to this ego building, claiming that “Do noted that we had pushed higher and further than any other former members.” I’d like to have heard exactly what DO said that Mark has interpreted like that. We have it on audio tape that years before this DO felt Rkkody was in much better shape in relationship to the Next Level because he still recognized and wanted to look to his Older Members. I guess Mark may want people to believe they changed from 1987 through 1990’s in regards to DO and perhaps they did change, but if we look at what they are doing now, it’s clear that they have not changed and may have even gotten far, far worse in looking to their own Minds rather than to TI and DO’s Mind.

“Pushed higher”? What does that mean to DO – in making money…that wouldn’t be a criteria DO respected yet in point number 6, Mark he’s talking about purely human project advancements. “Pushed…further” in what direction? Okay, in the next sentence he clarifies that DO didn’t put “much emphasis on the human experience”. What was DO’s emphasis on then?

This to me seems to be yet another one of those exaggerations and even a type of filing in the blanks and attributing it to DO saying something. Another example of this is when Mark told me with Cathy as my witness that I also have in an email to Cathy that “Ti would slap you aside the head” if she heard that I got on an airplane while not vaccinated. None of us were ever vaccinated in the Classroom, though it wasn’t so prevalent in those years that I ever heard about. Maybe he said that because TI was a nurse in the world. But TI also didn’t see doctors as the “gods” many seem to think about them. There is a long list of these kinds of things they seem to think they can say with confidence that TI and/or DO said or would say and anyone that really knows TI and DO’s Mind in the least knows on many subjects they were not to be second guessed accurately.

And if they have built “many successful businesses”, maybe that explains why they are spending thousands of dollars on suing me and Cathy for selling some T shirts with the Older Member picture Ollody painted on them, that they illegitimately copyrighted though they had no proof of the group giving them the rights to that painting. They are also suing me and adding Cathy for audio’s I played before I met Cathy and for playing audio tapes of TI and DO on my live-stream on YouTube: 3spm after I met Cathy and Cathy tried to broker a deal between us to allow me/us to play them publicly The lawsuit includes trying to get us to pay over 75,000 at least in statuary and punitive damages as there are no actual damages because they have never sold anything from the Class, they say, besides the Book.

Re: their businesses, I wonder how many is “many”. I know they have a business that is like a Mail Boxes, Etc for many years so that’s probably one.

Niklas:

The Group began exploring new ground after Mrcody and Srfody’s departure. In the ’88 Update – The UFO Two and Their Crew, a manifesto of sorts, they describe a project called the Anonymous Shopaholics Celibate Church: an outreach program for chronic sexaholics seeking relief from their affliction. That was a wild idea, I must say. Considering how many former students mention celibacy as the most challenging aspect of purging themselves of human patterns, having raging nymphomaniacs living under the same roof sounds adventurous to the extreme.

7. Mark:

– Anonymous Shopaholics was a repackaging of the Next Level understanding for those humans who could most relate to it. The ‘88 Update was a mixture of different ideas Do thought might be relatable to the public. It sounded unusual but never added up to real people coming in. It did not have any effect, and there were no new members. But the Celibate Church did gain popularity within the Group and lasted a long time into the 1990s. It was a useful tool to evaluate the endless sexual games played on this planet – and for those who wanted off the ride. It brought up the notion that being non-sexual wasn’t such a bad idea for some on Earth. It made the abnormal seem normal, so those rid of carnal desires would not feel like freaks.

7. Sawyer:

Mark was not in the Classroom when DO had us begin to interface with groups like Sexahaulics Anonymous and Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous and others, mostly based in California but having chapters in Colorado and other places. It was DO’s next consideration of who He felt TI would have him interface with. His effort in that regard basically fell on mostly deaf ears.

Where did he get the description of DO and Crews effort to reach out to members of these groups as a “Repackaging of Next Level Understanding?” They were never supportive of human sexuality for those in the Classroom that hoped to evolve Beyond Human in this lifetime.

Since Mark wasn’t in the Class after 1987, I understand why he didn’t know why DO wrote the ’88 Update – The UFO Two and their Crew. It was to set the record straight in the many rumors that got reported by the media as facts mostly from 1975 to date.

It’s a report of he and TI’s meeting. At that time, Mark didn’t know that DO wasn’t seeking new members though he was experimenting with various projects in case there were some in the human kingdom who would still identify with what He and TI had been teaching. It wasn’t supposed to “add up to real people coming in”. Mark needs to listen to the audio tapes from that time to learn how DO was thinking if he’s going to portray himself as a know it all authority of what TI and DO taught and intended to be done with their information after they left.

Mark says, “it sounded unusual but never added up to real people coming in”. Wow, this sounds to me like he is faulting DO for not coming up with something that could “bring real people in”. What makes him think DO cared about “bringing real people in” or for that matter “fake people in”…that’s a joke as what’s a “real” person to Mark? I don’t think he knows how he sounds and what kind of thoughts he has that have seemed to become his own that are hyper critical of the very person he tells me and others he is a student of…namely DO. Or is he a student of what has become a facsimile of DO. There is a great deal of evidence from his mouth and actions of the later case.

Mark says about “’88 Update” that “it sounded unusual…” He’s got to be kidding, it is as unusual as can be and no different from what He and TI brought to the world that was also very highly unusual. And like I just said to equate that “unusual” nature to the material “never added up to real people coming in” seems to totally miss the point of ’88 Update. Of course it was designed to tell the truth with the hope that some would recognize it as something that made sense to them. DO didn’t come up with anything in it, I don’t think that TI hadn’t also felt before she exited. I wonder if Mark is insinuating once again that DO got off the track in some way after TI left. Maybe that’s part of why he seems to look up to Ben Zellers thinking that I believe has a similar view to it along with many others. Mind you I respect Ben Zeller and understand that he is approaching the subject as an academic but that doesn’t mean I agree with any of what he arrived at.

Mark should either listen to all the audio tapes from that time or ask me about what actually happened as the way he says things to me is so misleading. I don’t think he’s trying to do that but I think he just doesn’t know better.

There was no “popularity within the Group” involved in the Classroom. DO, as the Older Member ran things by Students and by that time sought out Students input on potential next steps. Those next steps almost always had to do with finding ways we might interface with the public again since 1975 and 1976. Yes, the idea of having a “church” in the title was mostly all that was about, as well as the word “celibate” in the literature they were planning on using IF they went ahead with such a project. As I was there then and into the 90’s I do recall having the documentation that we even sent to family members called, ASCC standing for “Anonymous Sexahaulics Celibate Church”. But even with that title that didn’t change anything that we were doing. We still operated with the same objectivity and had no religiosity. We didn’t have any religious symbolism on the walls nor Space based pictures. We had no ceremonies or rituals or special clothing to dress up in. Mark is saying that “popularity” of having a “church” lasted into the 1990’s, which is not at all what took place. In fact by the 90’s we were more inclined to try to interface with the people who surrounded the UFO phenomena subject matter. In 1992 DO had some student partnerships make video’s for the public. I was partnered by DO with Jwnody to make a video. From the video’s several partnerships made, DO asked that Classroom to kind of rate who did the best job and that might be the partnership who DO was considering sending out to talk to Christians, etc. The video Jwnody and I made was selected and DO approved of it but then felt he didn’t feel we were right to do that task. That’s when he decided to do the task that resulted in the Beyond Human – The Last Call video series.

To me Mark talks about this the way an academic talks about things they hardly know anything about saying about the Celibate Church project examination that, “It was a useful tool to evaluate the endless sexual games played on this planet – and for those who wanted off the ride.” What “evaluation?” DO wasn’t evaluating human sexuality. He knew from the start that there was no sexuality in the Next Level so there couldn’t be any in the Classroom who were trying to measure up to Next Level standards. People should listen to the audio tapes and they would see so much of what I’m saying for themselves.

Plus it wasn’t just about becoming non-sexual. After all there are all kinds of religious monks and nuns, what DO joked at times calling them “nonks and muns” who are celibate but are addicted to their sense of piety and being special to be full time religionists, getting off on others seeing them and seeing themselves as holy, etc.

I doubt Mark and Sarah listen to audio tapes. Maybe that’s another reason they don’t want anyone to actually hear those 1061 tapes as they don’t want people to see all the things they have been saying that are clearly not from TI and DO’s Mind. To pretend they are the ultimate authority of Heaven’s Gate seems to be the illusion they wish to keep up just because they received the task to handle the Groups mail and divide the contents of storage (audio tapes, etc.) among those who were inclined to disseminate their information. In Judge Lisa Guy Schall’s decision she even shows how Sarah even admitted that she and Mark’s task was to “distribute” videos.

Judge Lisa Guy Schall also wrote in her decision that of the information they provided to the court, to try to show they should have all the Groups possessions, which included one or more of the Letters they received from DO and Crew, distribution was the only task they were given (aside from handling of mail and a few fiduciary responsibilities. They then made it into their little empire dictating who could have what materials and what images and video’s could be shown.

The name we used in the 90’s was Total Overcomers Anonymous – TOA which can be seen on the original video tape jackets of the Video series DO and Crew (including me on the crew) called “Beyond Human – The Last Call”. One can see me being used in about 5 of the 12 sessions as a helper for DO. It may not look like we are doing much to help DO but the fact that those assigned that task were very positive minded made us good batteries and buffers against the negative influences that might otherwise try to interfere with DO.

I agree with the last sentence that the effort to reach out to those in those kinds of groups was seen as trying to help them go even further to end their sexual addictions and feel good about doing so. But what DO learned from having sent Pmmody and other students to some of these group’s meetings was that many resented the Class members acting like they know how to overcome the sexual addiction. And how some just want to keep thinking of themselves as addicts rather than totally cut off their sexuality which is harder to do. I recall in an audio tape DO talks about some of these groups trying to get addicts to have a normal sex lives when DO was hoping some would want no sex life anymore because they were recognizing it was behavior they were outgrowing.

Niklas:

There is one remark in particular from the ‘88 Update I find confusing: ‘We also thought that we could help AIDS victims realize that their problem could actually be their blessing.’

8. Mark:

– Ti always regarded this disease as a way of having a section of the human population realize that the reduction – or elimination – of sexual activity can clear the mind and bring it closer to the evolutionary movement towards the Next Level. She stated this in 1984, back when Boy George was more popular. His move towards androgyny may have confused the general public, but it was a step closer to having no gender roles or sexual activity at all. Ti believed AIDS offered people a chance to pause and consider relating to their fellow human beings in ways completely devoid of sensuality.

8. Sawyer:

I will have to review tapes that talk about AIDS before commenting on what Mark said. What Mark said doesn’t seem far off from what TI and DO taught about a disease helping someone overcome the behavior that contributed to one’s illness.

Niklas:

At some point in the late 80s, while residing in Poudre Canyon, Colorado, Do underwent a bout of Rocky Mountain spotted fever which reportedly dragged him to death’s door. Do later recounted to students how he came so close that he only needed to let go in order to exit his vehicle. But as much as he longed to be reunited with Ti, his tasks on Earth were as of yet incomplete. In 1990, the Class left all three Colorado crafts and resumed life in the outdoors, roaming from state to state. For a while, they camped in Phoenix, where they performed a thirteen-day water fast in preparation for a presumed UFO pick-up in the desert.

9. Mark:

– We heard about the spotted fever episode but have no details. We were also aware of the desert fast but did not participate – it was a difficult experience, from reports back. We did not meet with them physically around this time; for security reasons, both parties kept to themselves. We seriously contemplated a return, but the same issues might have resurfaced. Do spoke with both of us, yet the opportunity did not present itself in a workable manner. It was tempting, though.

9. Sawyer:

I wonder what Mark means by saying they got “reports back”. I know this can seem picky but the words people use show how their minds work and contain insinuations and open doors to misinterpretation that leads to misinformation, especially with the subject matter of Heaven’s Gate. So to me those two words can make it sound like DO was reporting to them. Maybe there was some of that happening as DO may have wanted to keep them abreast of some things we were doing in the Class so if they wanted to they could do some version of it, since over a number of phone calls to them, they still wanted to stay in touch. Other dropouts didn’t want any contact. I’m embarrassed to say that was me but I’m glad to say I didn’t remain in that frame of mind, though didn’t shift without their help in ways that included many dreams including them that occurred after they left their human vehicles. In fact I think it’s clear that my lack of wanting to stay in touch was probably the main reason DO didn’t include me in the list of dropout students who would receive a Fed X packet from Them on March 25th or thereabouts. Mark seems to hold this against me and seems to resent that when I did surface publicly standing up for TI and DO I participated in a great deal of press while they were hiding according to Rkkody. I understand the stress of having their Postnet business carry the address that was on the Heaven’s Gate website but they had agreed with DO to provide that address to the public, though it seemed the timing and probably method of the Groups exit took them totally by surprise.

I participated in the fast. The first day was a fast on air only all day long. The next 12 or 13 days was a fast on water only. It was difficult. No one was harmed by it. Some of us went into it thinking we might exit our vehicles that way. I believe we had just moved out of Albuquerque and sold all our houses of furnishings in estate sales in Albuquerque and Sante Fe and got re-outfitted in Trailers and Tents to go into the dessert to live again. I believe I recall DO saying he made a mistake to have the Class break the fast by eating tangerines which were plentiful at that time in Yuma, AZ where we were living in trailers on BLM or National Forest lands. However, I bet it was a test for some so perhaps no mistake at all. DO said at one point when he talked about how he had used an old credit card to rent a car in late 1993 not knowing how they would pay for charge that it was a mistake to do but that they had instructions to do it. To me that means he was willing to make mistakes for the sake of the lessons Students would get when they learned they had made a mistake. So many people would disqualify them as being who they said they were, thinking such elevated Beings couldn’t make mistakes. But that’s an illusion to believe. However, from the perspective of we humans, even students using human vehicles any so called mistakes TI and/or DO said they made were not at all mistakes as far as we are concerned. That’s part of why some of the things Mark directly implies about DO, as DO having made mistakes or gained some new realization shows to me, though I could be wrong, that Mark has lost a chunk of knowing he once might have had. I’m not saying he couldn’t get it back and I’m not pretending I can judge his relationship with DO but there is a huge amount of evidence that he and Sarah have gone very far astray from what DO hoped they would do after They left their vehicles in 1997.

I was present in the Class when DO contracted Rocky Mountain Spotted Tick Fever and felt like he could “curl up and die” and wanted to but asked TI if he could exit then and he told us as I recall that TI said to him he could leave if he wanted to and DO then felt the students would have a hard time continuing without him physically present and he didn’t want to shorten the task TI had given him to do, so decided he would not exit then.

Niklas:

Come May 1993, to the cost of $29,911, Heaven’s Gate – using the name Total Overcomers Anonymous – took out a three-quarter page advertisement in USA Today titled UFO Cult Resurfaces with Final Offer. Variations of the same ad were placed in dozens of other publications across the United States. Everything was funded by the students, most of whom had qualified jobs by then.

Sawyer: My understanding was that the info-ad was 1/3 of a page, but I don’t doubt Mark and Sarah received some documentation so I may have that wrong.

10. Mark:

– The USA Today piece was the main expense. The regional papers received a modified version which cost far less. Many were package deals where you’d publish in one and, for a bit more, it would appear in affiliated papers. From regional publications like Dimensions and Free Spirit in the northeast to Pathfinder and Phenome News in the Midwest – we published wherever we could. We were also featured in international magazines like Steam Shovel Press and Nexus. All the publication dates and issues are listed in Section 5 of our anthology.

10. Sawyer:

Speaking of wording, when Mark said, (capitalizations are mine); “WE published wherever WE could. WE were also featured in international magazines like Steam Shovel Press and Nexus. All the publication dates and issues are listed in Section 5 of OUR anthology”

Mark and Sarah were not at all in the Group at that time or any time after they were sent out of the Group in 1987. They were given a number of opportunities to serve DO again after 1987 but most were refused. This is well documented in the audio tapes. They had zero to do with the “anthology” which is referring to the Heaven’s Gate Book. Yes, they published it and is seen today as their purple book. They even criticized me for using the same color for the publishing of my book though the reason I did it was two fold with the primary reason being that I thought the color they chose was because it was TI’s favorite color. The other reason was because my book seemed to be a continuation of the fact that DO included primary scriptures from the New Testament in the back of his Book.

I was there when DO wrote what he sent to USA Today. I was also there when Jwnody wrote a modified version and sent copies of it to many periodicals, some of which Mark mentioned here. I don’t know who all participated in the changes to the USA Today piece but can’t imagine they ran anything by Mark and Sarah any more than they ran them by me or most other class members.

They are putting on the appearance that they are one and the same as members of the Group were and that is very, very misleading. It really smacks to me of what happened to Paul of Tarsus according to the records in the Book of Acts. While still referred to as Saul, while he was persecuting true believers of Jesus after Jesus left, he said he was blinded by a flash of light and heard a voice that was said was heard by others:

Act 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Act 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

In other words, Saul went against Jesus’ followers, even potentially responsible for the stoning to death of Stephen and then was influenced by some vision or discarnate or Space Alien Fallen Angel Soul to think of himself as having had a direct contact and instruction from Jesus.

In other words, this is a tactic that the lower forces use to commandeer the Teachings from the incarnate Older Members to create a religion from them. So what happened is that Saul changed his name to Paul and his letters when found became the primary foundation of what became Christianity with Emperor of Rome, Constantine declaring himself a Christian and building churches and making decrees.

When DO and Crew left in 1997 they left a setup for former Students to be tested. DO knew that some students could be trusted to act quickly to retrieve “any Items of Value” from Storage, which Rkkody ended up doing after Mark and Sarah turned over all their letters and keys to vehicles and codes and addresses to at least 2 storage rooms, with one containing all the audio meeting tapes. Had Mark and Sarah acted quickly to even inform Rkkody of the content of the Letters they received to inform Rkkody to get the truck from one storage room and use it to go to the other storage room to load it up with it’s contents, then none of the complication would have occurred that did occur.

Okay, so that was Mark and Sarah’s first mistakes – not acting quickly enough because they were afraid of what might happen since their Postnet business was where the Group used an address and their names were with Rkkody’s on the letter DO wanted to send to the owner of the mansion after their bodies were discovered. This is according to Rkkody’s manuscript which there is no reason to believe is fabricated but no doubt Mark and Sarah may claim that it is.

At that point when San Diego found out about the storage room and put a lock on it, the only choice was to engage a lawyer to help get the contents back into the hands of those students who wanted to disseminate the Group’s information.

But when Mark and Sarah were ruled to have filed a frivolous lawsuit and threatened to hold up the auction, etc. by filing an appeal, the court sought a settlement that cost Mark and Sarah upwards as much as 500,000.00 according to Mark in this article. So the Judge gave them a Consent Decree and ownership of the contents of storage that didn’t include 486 audio tapes Rkkody had removed from Storage before the Storage was taken by San Diego County.

And here’s my point to comparing this with the Influence that changed Saul to Paul:

This is approximately when Mark and Sarah saw that there really weren’t very much the media was doing to cause them any problems so they wanted the task back. Hence the government decree became the first of two such decrees that enabled Mark and Sarah to have a legal criteria to lord over the material, that is until they went against me, Cathy and against Carlan (and Jhnody, though he isn’t named in the lawsuit to stop us from doing anything with any of the information. Mark and Sarah want us to turn over any of the information we have so they can be the only disseminators of the Information and no doubt one of the first things they would do if they haven’t already was find out in the audios all the spots where they (Mrcody and Srfody) are spoken about and just take those files out.

This is exactly what the Catholic church did to the abundance of manuscripts they had. They formed them into the Canon and went about persecuting anyone who taught the contents of what Jesus said outside of the clergy who they deemed were the only ones who had the task to do the teaching.

So these usages of “we” and “our” is direct evidence of how Mark and Sarah think of themselves, as if they are DO’s only current “Reps” on earth. Others could participate in disseminating TI and DO’s information IF, IF, IF they bow down to the wishes of Mark and Sarah King. We know this is true as we have the document they gave us in their attorney’s office in November of 2021 listing all the many rules we needed to agree upon before we did anything and that if we breached the rules even our children would be held libel to their so called authority.

To speak as if they were part of the group and had anything much to do with any of this is outrageous. I was there and even I don’t like speaking about these materials as including me in their creation. Mark is assuming he is in such good graces with DO that he and Sarah must take any measures to insure no one else interferes with what they want to do or not do regarding the Intellectual Property of the Heaven’s Gate Group.

Furthermore regarding to The “Anthology” mentioned here by Mark, is referring to the Book the Group put together entitled, “How and When The Door to the Physical Kingdom Level Above Human May Be Entered – an Anthology of Our Materials” before Mark and Sarah even knew it existed complete with documents, most, even all of which Mark and Sarah weren’t in the Class when they were formulated.

Rkkody was sent in his Fed X package copies of the first edition of the same Book. Jhnody was also sent a copy of the Book which was before Mark and Sarah published it and changed the copyright page to the Telah Foundation from Common Law Copyright – encouraging anyone to copy it entirely or parts of it as long as none of it was changed or added to and were not doing it for commercial purposes. (I don’t believe commercial purposes included believers charging for their expenses of disseminating the information. I have evidence of that).

This further demonstrates why Mark doesn’t want anyone else to disseminate TI and DO’s information to the public. He (and Sarah) think only they have that task and so when I or Cathy or Carlan or Jhnody do it, to them we are rogue bulls “confusing” who they say is really authorized by DO to do the dissemination task. Mark and Sarah in their lawsuit complaint used the word, “confuse” against us, saying we were causing confusion in the use of the phrase Heavens Gate.

The fact is that DO hoped that anyone, any new believer would Stand in He and TI’s defense and that it was a task given to new believers to disseminate Their information not just two x-students who were blaming DO for being sent out of the Class, putting DO down as Mark has demonstrated here in this article repeatedly. For 25 years they have been almost totally hording the audio tapes. They would send someone a link to download one at a time. Cathy ended up getting 4 from them over time. The link becomes inactive so in some cases she had to re-ask for a new link because she didn’t listen to it all when she had it and/or wanted to listen to it or parts of it again. These audio tapes are jam packed with information that is frankly Beyond Human comprehension unless one keeps after it and seeks to absorb it and apply it. Then more and more becomes apparent In that way, it’s much like the records of what Jesus said. There are layers of understanding. So to make it so hard to have tapes is thinking they can only be had if someone proves to them they are worthy, have the thirst and aren’t going to be like Pearls Before Swine. That’s how they think about a lot of people, as “swine” and as “cockroaches”. I and Cathy are witness to them using those terms to define people.

If anyone is giving Heaven’s Gate a bad (“confusing”) reputation and name, it’s Mark and Sarah in the ways they have treated many who have written to them that I and Cathy know about and have first hand provable evidence of.

Niklas:

These ads stirred enough interest for the Group to re-open ‘the harvest’ – as they referred to the recruitment process – and hold public meetings again for the first time since 1976.

11. Mark:

– They tested the waters in Denver and Albuquerque in November 1993, but the harvest didn’t go live until the following January when they were in the LA area. The Group actually grew from twenty-four to fifty during this time, with people coming and going throughout the year. Some entered because they thought they’d be leaving on a spacecraft immediately, but the veterans knew this was not the case.

11. Sawyer:

Jwnody and I (Swyody) held the meeting in Denver in November of 1993 as a testing of the waters like Mark said. Our report to DO was that it went well, there seemed to be interest. I don’t know if anyone went to that meeting who ended up joining once we started heading out to hold meetings on January 1, 1994 or not, though upon returning to that area, I think it was Chkody and I who held another meeting in that area and Golden (Gldody) joined from. As was the case for most all TI and DO believers, what she heard made total sense to her and she knew this was what meant everything to her so needed to give her 100% effort to. This is an example of my response to the meeting I attended with TI and DO talking on September 14, 1975 and this is the type of response Cathy has said she had when she watched the Beyond Human – The Last Call Video series. And there are others still having that response when they hear it.

I’m glad to see Mark speaks about us at that time as “They” instead of acting like he was a part of it, as he did in point #10.

We actually launched the Public meeting schedule from the San Diego area not from L.A.

I don’t think the group ever grew to 50 but even if it did for a time during that 9 1/2 month holding of public meetings a bunch of those were returning dropouts who had been either looking for DO over years even or who still had some contact with DO after they dropped out.

That return of a bunch of dropout students started in 1993 with the publishing and uploading of the Beyond Human Video Series to a Satellite TV channel. A bunch of dropouts individually watched the Beyond Human series on Satellite and for those that had a way to get in touch with DO, did and DO invited them to rejoin. As I recall they were Rkkody, Stlody, Tllody, Jhnody (from seeing the broadcast in Venezuela), Flxody and her husband a new believer who became named Ablody, Gnrody, a new believer (who had been partnered with Rkkody when Rkkody was in the world) and Evnody, a new believer (who was a half sister to Stlody who became interested when Stlody left the Group). Also Slvody and Jstody returned having joined in 1975 or so who were a couple in the world. (Jstody left some time shortly after rejoining but with Rkkody decided to exit his vehicle by his own hand in around February of 1998. Also there was Rddody who was a new believer who was a homeless person who DO allowed to join us, but he didn’t stay very long because he started finding fault with Class members (including me) and didn’t want to take the correction from DO. DO asked him where he wanted to go so DO could give him transportation to wherever he chose. He chose to receive a Greyhound bus pass that was good for unlimited travel for a year and he was taken to the nearest bus station. He was probably given a little spending money as well.

Niklas:

Phoenix was one of the few places they managed to get local news coverage – did you have a hand in this?

Sawyer: We actually got great coverage from the Dallas Morning news, from a Portland radio station and from the newspaper in Missoula, Montana where we also held meetings. “We” in this case refers to the small Group I was an overseer, with my partner, of. In the case of Dallas, several smaller groups joined together to hold that meeting. I don’t know of what media the other 4 or 5 small groups obtained. We also attracted media to the meeting “my” group put on southeast of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. I’m sure other groups had media coverage as well.

12. Mark:

– No, this was not our doing, but we did meet up with them while they visited Arizona in February 1994. We later saw them in Tucson, where they asked us to come back into the Group. Some of those who’d started the rumors that forced us to leave in 1987 had left by then – ironic, isn’t it? So, we asked for time to think. We considered making that transition but ultimately did not.

12. Sawyer:

Mllody and I and the group of students we were Overseers for held the Tucson meeting then and also got news coverage for on UFO AZ, a public access TV station created and run by Ted Lohman who we were also on the show with. I recall after that meeting that another of our Groups held a meeting in a suburb town south of Mesa or Tempe, as I recall and that may be the meeting Mark is talking about as there was some local news coverage of it. I was in the audience at that meeting and saw Mark and Sarah there as well.

But DO told us after that time that he had asked Mark and Sarah if they wanted to return into the group and that they declined.

Again, Mark saying here that, “Some of those who’d started the rumors that forced us to leave in 1987 had left by then – ironic, isn’t it?”

This is so hard for me to see in writing but is very telling of the Mind he lost. This statement to me shows that even today he has little trust that DO is his Older Member, as if DO was influenced to send him and Sarah out of He and TI’s Classroom because of anything (rumors) said to DO about them. DO sent them out of the Classroom reluctantly because they didn’t want to look to him as their Older Member anymore. This is a huge example of Mark not knowing how wrong he is about the whole episode. No wonder he gave at least one email interview where when asked why they left the Group, Mark and Sarah said nothing about being sent out of the classroom.

On top of that, he’s saying it’s ironic that those class-members were at that time in 1994 out of the Class as if to say it was their bad karma because they influenced DO with rumors that caused DO to send them out of the Class. The ones I recall that left the Class after them until 1994 were Hvvody, perhaps Pypody, Cddody (who DO sent to a half way house situation in Dallas where Brnody and Anyody were also living for a period, except Cddody when offered by DO to return in 1994 declined (and has since died), Rthody who also was on the fence about staying in the Class following the second family visit where he spent time with his vehicle’s brothers and their families that he then wanted to leave to be around, Pmmody who left in 1992 or so and Andody who left in 1992 or 1993. Of those, though I might be wrong but only Pmmody was in Sat 3 north craft at that time. That might not be so as I think Rthody and Hvvody might have been in that craft at that time as well but like me there, Rthody and Andody and Hvvody I believe all had OOC Tasks so probably wouldn’t know as much about what was transpiring between Mrcody (Mark) and other students that became what surfaced Mark’s ceasing to follow the I could be Wrong procedure.

I could find ways to ask Pmmody, Rthody, Hvvody and Andody about their recollection of those events surrounding Mark and Sarah’s being sent out of the Classroom but to date I don’t really care to.

Niklas:

Come September 1994, Heaven’s Gate had returned to California and taken up residency in the city of San Clemente, where they slept in tents inside a warehouse. From their many years on campgrounds through all seasons, the senior members had considerable outdoors experience. As such, they could get contractor work testing out camping equipment. One day, Do summoned the Class to a meeting during which he – flanked by a vacant chair to signify Ti’s presence – broached the topic of purposely shedding their human husks. In his view, it was a means of leaving behind the cumbersome corporeal vessel to allow for the consciousness to return to the Next Level. Just like Jesus, the same spiritual being that now occupied Do’s body, had done two thousand years prior by willingly submitting to crucifixion. The Group were down to around forty members at this point; one of them left, but the rest stayed.

A common speculation is whether they would’ve moved towards the physical exit strategy if Ti had remained at the helm.

13. Mark:

– We feel it would’ve come from Ti sooner than Do, but we don’t know for sure. It’s hard to conjecture about this. We were unaware at the time, but the development itself was unsurprising. From the beginning, Ti and Do knew we would not be entering the Next Level in our human bodies. Flesh and blood are not made for space travel. Instead, we’d receive new, space-capable Next Level bodies. You vacate your earthly vessel either before or after entering the craft – take your pick. And don’t tell us that tethered trips to the moon or Mars are ‘space travel’. Exiting the earth’s atmosphere on an explosive chemical tube and hoping you’ll make it back in one piece is controlled playtime in our restricted solar system; high-speed movement around the universe, it is not. The Next Level controls our playground.

13. Sawyer:

At least Mark says it’s “conjecture” after stating his opinion. However the opinion, what they, Mark and Sarah feel really seems to be another of the many tell tale signs that they even at this point think poorly of DO and his choices. For example:

To say, “it would’ve come sooner from Ti than DO” to refer to the exit timing based on the use of the word, “sooner”, given the fact that DO looked to TI as his Older Member, His Heavenly Father aka Jehovah in the records and religious terms, his “Admiral,” doesn’t that say DO was tardy in exiting? Doesn’t it directly state that DO was not in tune with what TI would have done? I highly doubt they are implying that TI would have wrongly exited sooner as if it was good that DO took so long to exit.

This seems like a little thing but in fact it’s huge and shows how right DO was in audio tape #849 from 07-23-94 where DO says Mrcody and Srfody could not stay in Class in relationship to each other so he instructed them to leave in 1987. That’s not the only audio tape clip saying that they became satisfied with looking to one another, thus no longer to DO who they referred to as their Older Member.

They seem to directly imply that they think DO was a weak leader and the facts are exactly the opposite but not in a human way. DO wasn’t dictatorial at all. Just the opposite but when it came to Standards He and TI stood for, though patient and tolerant and forgiving, as they said in scripture “ruled” with a two edged sword of his Mind (words) requiring those who showed he and TI they wanted that rule to sever all their ties to this world to be “accounted worthy”.

Again it shows how little he really thinks of DO and about what DO’s relationship with TI was all about. DO was fully acting on TI’s behalf while also operating as a partnership while TI was in a human vehicle and thriving on staying in tune with TI step by step as he finished the task TI gave him. The only way someone can really begin to see what I’m saying as true is to listen to a bunch of audio tapes. It really doesn’t take a bunch and of course some will listen to even a bunch and still not see what I’m saying.

I challenge Mark to show us some evidence that TI would have left sooner than DO determined was time to exit. Saying things like this is irresponsible and I’ve had to follow his interviews over the years correcting these kinds of things he and/or Sarah would say. I’m not claiming to be perfect in this regard but the big difference is that I want to be corrected rather than leave misinformation in the public record.

Maybe the fact that Mark wasn’t in the Class after November of 1987 left him with little recognition of how DO went about making choices without TI’s physical presence. He was far more careful in a sense as it was a different relationship with TI outside a physical human vehicle. He literally knew when TI was closer and/or when TI’s Mind was closer via whatever technology TI was using. That’s why when DO moved us all to Atlanta and He couldn’t feel TI’s presence as He could in Colorado, He felt “underwater,” I recall Him saying. When we learned of that a number of students said to DO, let’s move back to Colorado and DO said He felt terrible asking us to do that as He had spent so much money renting three 24 foot Ryder trucks and all the effort to load them with three houses of furnishings galore and giving notice at our jobs in the world, many of which were high tech jobs that employers would be upset about our leaving and leasing three big houses in the Peachtree Dunwoody area of north Atlanta, having to pay thousands of first, last and deposit to live in and in some cases like me, I found a job working for Peachtree Software and hardly came up to speed in learning how their software worked so I could trouble shoot bugs and fix them, what I was good at.

Some students said to him that without his feeling a strong connection to TI, it didn’t matter how much money was involved/lost. DO wondered if He had made a mistake. After all TI had felt for years that going east of the Mississippi river felt like they had less of a connection to their Older Member – TI’s Older Member who was working with both of them from His spacecraft. But even feeling that, they at times felt like they had instructions to take the class east of the Mississippi. Like when we moved to a camping area somewhat north of Biloxi, Mississippi and stayed for maybe a month at most as I recall. Even when TI and DO felt they made mistakes, they knew the difference when they were abiding by instructions from their Older Member. No doubt DO had instruction from TI to move to Atlanta. After all I wonder how that tested some students as one could wonder… didn’t DO go there first to check it out, which he did. Some class-members saw this as a weakness and if they did the Next Level would see that and would even put them to a test to see if they would choose to overcome that negativity or leave the Class because of.

Didn’t Mark recognize that question that many in the media have asked me and that puts DO in a light of having failed? Maybe he hasn’t had much experience being interviewed and perhaps he too allowed himself to wonder if DO lost something after TI left that caused him to get off track from what TI had started with him. That statement directly says that DO hadn’t acted as TI would have.

I’ve heard that view from some former students (in person and in media they have done), like Andody (aka Frank), Rthody (aka Michael), Dncody (aka Dick currently deceased having died over 10 years ago as I recall from complications of HIV), and heard it privately but also in person from Cddody (aka Fred or Dale who also died from a health problem some years back), and I think there were others who made the same claims that DO got off track after TI left and led them to exit as they did when they think TI never would have gone in that direction.

This shows how little they knew of TI. They are letting themselves get conned by the Lower Forces to think that way because there is no evidence of that.

I may be wrong but also feel I’ve heard that view from Robert Balch and perhaps from Ben Zeller. If they are saying that they are showing they don’t know what they are talking about. I haven’t heard Mark or Sarah say it but considering how little Mark seems to think of DO in this article, as shown by my comments in this interview, I wouldn’t be surprised if he and/or Sarah hold some of that opinion that DO got off track in exiting when and by that method of their own hands and/or with that timing.

re: Mark’s statement, “From the beginning, Ti and Do knew we would not be entering the Next Level in our human bodies.

This sort of shocked me to hear as even new believer Cathy has listened to the Beyond Human Series frequently and read the Heaven’s Gate Book several times and listened to dozens of audio tapes, knew what TI and DO were teaching included taking one’s living human physical vehicle (body) on board the spacecraft that would pick them up. In fact TI and DO have met with much criticism over saying their students would leave with their human bodies albeit changed over into Next Level bodies, when that didn’t happen, as if that alone was the criteria that demonstrated whether TI and DO really were exactly who they said they were.

Perhaps what Mark means to say here is that it would be a converted (changed over) human vehicle that goes to Heaven if that is the way the Next Level decides. But if that’s what Mark meant, why didn’t he explain himself better. It’s so misleading to people to say inaccurate things like that. Maybe he forgot what all TI and DO said about it? Or maybe Mark just made a typo in this sentence and it wasn’t caught or corrected but in case Mark got confused about that I’ve included just a few of the many statements made by TI and DO and Crew on the subject:

a. From the Prospective Candidate Letter TI and DO wrote for us in 1975 to give to would be students:

“This is not a spiritual trip. To reach the Next Kingdom above human, your body must
literally be converted over biologically and chemically. This metamorphic process happens
automatically as you will yourself to overcome your humanness.”

b. From Statement One written by DO while in prison that He and TI provided at public meetings in 1975 and 1976 which is in the Heaven’s Gate Book:

“Those who can believe this process and do it will be “lifted up” individually and “saved” from death – literally. If you seek those two while they are here they will gladly fill you in on the details and assist those who wish to follow in this “path.”

Speaking of Jesus:

Approximately 2,000 years ago an individual of that next kingdom forfeited his body of that kingdom and entered a human female’s womb, thereby incarnating as the one history refers to as Jesus of Nazareth. He awakened to this fact gradually through the same metamorphic process and came to know that he had incarnated for the express purpose of telling and showing, even to the point of proof, that the next kingdom can be entered by overcoming the human aspects and literally converting into a “man” or creature of that next kingdom – the kingdom of his Father – one who is already a member of that kingdom. By His resurrection He proved that death can be literally overcome and that a permanent body for the next kingdom is acquired from the human kingdom. He did not leave His body in the grave. He converted it into His body of that next kingdom. This is the only way the next kingdom is entered permanently. Each human has that full potential. Jesus’ “Christing” or christening was completed at His transfiguration (metamorphic completion) and He remained in the “larva” environment, with other humans, only for some 40 days to show that His teaching had been accomplished. He showed them His new body and demonstrated a few of its new attributes, IE, appearing and disappearing (changing His vibrations) before their eyes while letting some of His friends touch His “new” body. This could be compared to a butterfly remaining in the caterpillar world for a few days to show them what they had to look forward to if they chose to seek true conscious communication with a butterfly and were willing to overcome all of their caterpillar ways. Then Jesus left them in a cloud of light (what humans refer to as UFO’s) and moves and returns in the same manner.

c. Here are some of the responses from TI (Bonnie) and DO (Herf) as recorded in the book, UFO Missionaries Extraordinary about going to the Next Level without one’s physical human body needing to die:

Question from Dan Garcia from pg. 71:
Then why is it necessary to convert to the next kingdom?

Bonnie: Because you have to make room for others.
Herf: You have to go through the human kingdom to get to the next… It depends on what your mind is on. A human apparently dies… you would never need to die again. You would overcome decay; you would have the capacity with your mind to create anything you desired; you would have the capacity to serve as agent to help humans come up to the level you have graduated to, and you would not be confined to a single planet.

from page 89:
“The only reason Jesus reappeared to his disciples after his death was to tell them he was flesh and bone. He was not spirit. He didn’t have to be crucified and rise from the dead. He just proved that he’d changed over into another creature that could even heal it’s body and take it with him into the next level.

Now the whole world has twisted what he said into believing that if we’re good little boys and girls and go faithfully to the grave we’ll get some little spirit body that can go to the heavens; and it’s an illusion. You do not have to die.”

Question from pg. 106:
It has been suggested that your followers are prepared to fast to the point of starvation. Is it true that your followers must die in order to gain the price of admission to a UFO for translation, transition, to the next level above human?

The Two: They do not have to die any more than Moses died or Elijah died or Enoch died. They will be lifted up wherever they are. Their metamorphic conversion, their change, will be accelerated. Some short time after we go, they will be prepared to leave. When they are prepared to leave, they will be lifted up.

d. From “Our Position Against Suicide” posted on the Heavensgate.com website that Mark and Sarah have been the webmasters of for some 24 years. Note it says they plan on boarding the spacecraft “in our physical bodies”. How does that square with what Mark said here. (In this document they go on to share what the other possibilities are for exiting leaving their physical bodies behind because of various reasons:

“We fully desire, expect, and look forward to boarding a spacecraft from the Next Level very soon (in our physical bodies). There is no doubt in our mind that our being “picked up” is inevitable in the very near future. But what happens between now and then is the big question. We are keenly aware of several possibilities.”

If he really did mean to say this and believes it, in my opinion that of course could be wrong from how TI and DO would see it, it’s yet another signal that he has some resentment towards DO because of the choices DO made in sending him out of the Class. More and more I feel as though I am seeing that resentment, that he’d probably deny, but that also shows up in the fact that he has been choosing to not follow DO’s instructions to him, via the Letters he got via Fed X on March 25th 1997 that described Their exit and how to handle what they left behind for them and other former members and any new believers to do to share their information with the world.

Mark and Sarah were instructed by DO regards to “any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information”

The storage room being spoken of contained the 1061 audio tapes recorded from 1982 to 1997. Along with handling their mail and helping to publish the book and maintain the web site and take care of some legalities this was their task and one that they have failed at as they won’t allow myself and Crlody (and now Cathy) and others to do that dissemination task. It’s like an Influence has had Mark and Sarah believe keeping the material away from the public was somehow the right thing to do, the opposite of what DO wanted for this time frame.

re: Mark writing: “Flesh and blood are not made for space travel. Instead, we’d receive new, space-capable Next Level bodies. You vacate your earthly vessel either before or after entering the craft – take your pick.”

“take your pick”. I never heard TI or DO say anything about a student getting to make that choice and I doubt they ever did say that. I don’t think Mark is aware of how much misinformation he may be sowing. Some people think what he and Sarah say is representative of what TI and/or DO have said/taught, because they were among the former dropout students to have the task of posting the website. I’ve considered posting the website myself and Rkkody gave it to me, but I didn’t think Mark and Sarah were misusing their position the way that I keep hearing from others, and from this article and others they are. The list of their abuses of the information is very long at this point.

This is putting out misinformation. It seems like that game of telephone to where something heard gets changed and changed by the recipient IF they don’t continuously research what exactly TI and DO said about said subject and try to restrain themselves from interjecting their mind and ideas into the teachings. I have seen myself doing this at times as well but I also do try very hard to research things I say so I’m not just relying on my memory which I know is fallible

For instance as I just showed from Statement One, DO writes that Jesus came back after healing his human vehicle to show that he was still “flesh and bone” and then he took that same body with him to board the spacecraft hidden by a cloud. Is Mark saying that a Next Level spacecraft can not manufacture an environment that wouldn’t damage a human vehicle to be in while it’s on a spacecraft from the Next Level? I do recall that certain Next Level Member’s physical bodies could not exist very long in a human dense decaying environment. We need to be very careful when we hear ourselves saying something about what the Next Level can or can’t do. He may be right to some degree but I’d be careful not to guess at something like that.

I do recall TI and DO talking about exiting our human vehicle before entering the craft OR after entering the craft but what was again not mentioned here is what if one enters the craft with their converted over Human vehicle. In that case they may not leave that human vehicle at all, neither before or after boarding the craft. I could be wrong but do recall TI and DO saying at one point that they didn’t know what use a human vehicle would be to the Next Level. Then at another time they thought it was possible the Next Level might like to analyze the human vehicle that provided for a Soul accomplishing enough of a metamorphosis to have changed over the vehicle into a Next Level vehicle.

Niklas:

Many researchers – with a notable example being Ben Zeller, Assistant Professor of Religion at Lake Forest College and author of Heaven’s Gate: America’s UFO Religion – have suggested that the lukewarm response to the Group’s proselytizing efforts accelerated these leanings.

14. Mark:

– That might have played a part in the timing, but it was going to happen regardless. Again, you must enter the Next Level in a Next Level body. The only question was: would it be done before entering the craft or in the privacy thereof? This time, the instructions were to discard the physical body before boarding – making of it a demonstration to the world. Had this occurred afterwards, it would’ve gone by unnoticed. Would you be writing about them today if option two had been exercised?

14. Sawyer:

For Mark to say, “Again, you must enter the Next Level in a Next Level body. The only question was: would it be done before entering the craft or in the privacy thereof?”

Did the 39 have a Next Level body when they boarded the Spacecraft? The only way I know how to think about that relative to things TI and DO said about it, was that it was the Soul body that was growing in each human vehicle. But DO said in DO’s Final Exit, I think it was, that some of those 38 students might have to return to the human kingdom to finish their Overcoming Process. So we don’t know if those individuals would receive a Next Level grown body or not after they laid down their human vehicles. We do know from Jwnody’s document, Away Team From Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure, found in the Heaven’s Gate Book and on the website (See segment below) that there could be different strata of Next Level bodies.

Plus we also know from that same document plus from other documents/video’s left behind that there were some Souls who weren’t ready to exit with DO and Crew when they did, but who also did recognize DO as their Older Member but had weaknesses and that they also would be “saved” by the Next Level whenever it was that they exited in whatever way they exited if they qualified to be saved that was described in the same document as involving believing TI and DO are from the kingdom that created the earth and all it’s inhabitants and that they need to be willing to “Stand in Defense” of TI and DO and maintain that Stand and accept the consequences of maintaining that stand until their departure.

Here is the clearest depiction I’ve found so far of what DO and Crew understood about who, with what kind of human vehicle, changed over to some degree of growth, would be acceptable to enter a Next Level spacecraft:

Segment from Away Team From Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure By Jwnody:

“The appropriate final step for those about to complete their metamorphosis is the shedding of the “shell” – the shedding of that portion of the old creature which is now close to its end. Whatever amount of new creature that is present, if it is acceptable and still working in a forward motion, will be taken into the Next Level. Theoretically, some of us will still be too “young” (undeveloped) and will require further training before we can qualify to receive an issue of a Next Level “uniform” – biological container (body). It’s possible, however, that there are several strata of Next Level uniforms that will be issued depending on the degree of development of the mind at the completion of this task. Young minds may be issued less advanced vehicles. The all-important issue is, at what point – at what age or maturity of mind – does a soul qualify for a Next Level vehicle that would be serviceable in that new Kingdom.”

The Next Level is in charge of who is ready to enter a Next Level spacecraft with or without their human vehicle and when that might happen. The best we could do is to put all the preparation given to us by TI and DO into motion. To do that preparation requires having a human vehicle so I think taking advantage of having a vehicle to learn needed lessons through is to our advantage. To think anyone has done enough of that preparation is ludicrous as even though we may have learned some of the lessons, dealing with our vehicles desires and the way the lower forces work against us provides increased opportunities to build further strength of Mind.

re: the responses to the meetings in 1994 and whether that had something to do with the timing of their exit:

The responses to the meetings held around the US were quite good in the western U.S. where most of the Souls that were waiting for DO to come public again, having formed relationships with human vehicles. The group nearly doubled their numbers though some dropped away very soon after joining, which was anticipated would happen when some found out it was a serious program and that DO and Crew at the time were fully prepared to exit their vehicles, even by their own hand.

What many don’t understand is that TI and DO were not human beings. They were Next Level Souls using human vehicles. Originally, They didn’t think they were to gather followers but when they happened accepted that was their task. In 1994 DO was taking things one step at a time having learned that having a Class with some at a distance wouldn’t work, because we had started a mail correspondence with a number of people who responded to the Beyond Human Series and the USA Today Ad and the same article posted in many New Age periodicals.

I recall he talked about feeling there could be new students and also considered that there could be many but He and TI were never eager to deal with large numbers. However from being present then, I do believe I recall that DO did wonder if being bolder about who it is we all were in history could trigger hatred against us and could accelerate our exit because of. Meetings held in the eastern half of the US mostly had very low turnouts so the handwriting was on the wall to cease holding meetings come September.

However when one listens to audio tapes from 1996 and 1997 DO was still talking about having projects that shared the information with the public even as a theatrical musical big production that included singing, music and a light show and that he was considering wearing a costume of an EBE headgear and even having his ears that were quite large surgically reduced to fit under the headgear and traveling town to town as a troop and/or having a castration contest in Las Vegas and/or forming a monastery people could come visit and stay for 2-3 days and using Ells Angels as Security for public events, and/or forming a monastery in India because India seemed more accepting of various religious groups as opposed to the U.S. where Christians could be even violently against them. At one point he was ready to exit his vehicle and expressed to his students that they should not feel obligated to exit with him in the way he was choosing, that they wouldn’t be failing to not exit with him in that way. These ideas were contemplated over weeks time, to be found talked about in a number of audio tapes from 1996-1997.

DO couldn’t imagine staying until his and each of the student’s vehicles individually dropped dead from old age, and/or diseases. He wanted to see He and TI and Crews legacy continued after they left because he knew their information was germinating throughout the human kingdom as they had been depositing thoughts for some 24 years.

re: whether the so called low turnout at the 1994 meetings had something to do with the exit date:

I tend to agree with Mark that sure it was a factor that showed DO a few things. Those who were waiting for their Older Member to show up public again did respond because the Next Level helped them be in the right place at the right time. Plus DO had gone public being about as bold as he could be revealing that He was the return of the same Soul who was in Jesus, as promised, which many Christians say they were waiting for. Plus it showed DO that the Luciferian Space Alien Fallen Angel Souls, the Lower Forces strategy was such that regardless of how bold DO was, they would mostly have humans ignore them, thus wouldn’t be taking any actions against them that could even accelerate their exit of their vehicles nor try to put DO in jail on some trumped up charges. DO talked about this in some audio tapes from 1996-7. So the low turnout was part of many signs that they had nothing left to do but prepare to exit, though over those last 2 1/2 years DO still considered often whether there was still more to do to bring their information to the public eye again. It was just about how and when and where.

DO’s choice to leave when he did was because of constant wanting to do whatever he felt TI was giving to him in response to his asking TI. That was the process from 1973 one step at a time.

re: Mark writing, “Had this occurred afterwards, it would’ve gone by unnoticed. Would you be writing about them today if option two had been exercised?”

It’s always smarter when we hear ourselves saying something as a statement of fact like; “it would’ve gone by unnoticed” and asking the question, “Would you be writing about them today if option two had been exercised?” to restrain such statements because the facts are we can’t ever truly second guess the Next Level Above Human Older Members. Who knows what other strategies the Next Level could have employed to make a big event that would have people taking notice and writing about them for decades later. TI and DO even talked about another scenario in audio tape 149 that involved lots of media literally filming TI, DO and Crew walking up a ramp onto a Next Level spacecraft.

Niklas:

Shortly after the evacuation conference – but for unrelated reasons – another long-time member who’d joined at the Waldport meeting left the Group. He was sent to live with Mrcody and Srfody in Phoenix, presumably to help him re-adapt to life in modern society.

15. Mark:

– We did serve to transition Swyody to the world, yes. The Group called us every day during late September and October to see how we were doing. They were worried he was going to go off the deep end. He did. Swyody boomeranged into drugs, music, sex, and a general tendency to do nothing.

His motivation was nearly at zero as he bounced like a pinball from one human experience to the other. We finally told them that we had to push Swyody out to an apartment we’d found for him, to allow us to continue with our lives.

He became a bum and ended up with some musicians in Mesa, which somewhat surprised the Group. It was no coincidence that, thirty months later, he did not receive any of the Class’ final instructions about what to do following their departure. They had his phone number and address but sent him nothing. He also birthed a child – which we did not, so we’d be ready for Next Level instructions. And the Class knew it.

He has since taken on roles of dissemination the Group did not give him. These tasks are self-generated and not from the Next Level. In fact, his information and views are quite the opposite.

He appears in every interview because we turn them down. We take care of all the legal issues, and the production companies run to him in need of talking heads. Such has been the cycle for many years now.

15. Sawyer (Swyody):

So often Mark says things in a way, that to me sounds like an exaggeration that puts a greater light on himself. I mean, I’m glad he and Sarah were willing to help me then, as DO arranged with them on my behalf, but what actually happened was hardly a “transition to the world”. For some reason I didn’t need a transition to the world. Here’s what happened from my view:

Mark picked me up at Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix and took me to He and Sarah’s house and gave me a guest room to sleep in. The only thing I remember Sarah saying to me when I arrived was, “none of that sex stuff”, just like that. I was not aware of anything I thought, said or did that ever stimulated her saying this.

Even though I didn’t remember this from being in the Class when DO said it and recorded it on an audio we still have, I learned that in fact, DO said, (paraphrased) that 1/2 the male students while she was still in the classroom were having to fight off thoughts of sensuality with her. DO said this in audio tape 426 made on November 14, 1989. He said about Srfody’s Influence that “It was an influence that had half the males in the Class fighting it off”.

Never mind that she was involved with Alxody while in the Classroom before TI left, if I recall to where they went into a closet and were feeling each other up. I believe Alxody exposed what happened which is how I learned of it. I had had a number of experiences in the Classroom with what seemed like she was coming on to me that I gave no response to. Srrody told me that she had come on to him in some way. I don’t believe for a minute she wanted to have sex with me. I think she was using sexuality to lure whoever might give into it so she could get out of the class. But DO said Srfody’s “Influence” had attempted to lure me in particular away from joining the Class and was now working on Mark.

So they lent me a car to drive to look for a job which I found in a very short time working as a dinner cook for Marriott Resort in Scottsdale, AZ. DO had given me $600.00 in cash. I bought my own food and was rarely at their house. I didn’t cook there and don’t recall putting anything in the refrigerator I ate in my room if not when I was out and about. I bought a bicycle and began to ride from my job some 5 miles to work and back to their house at first. I then found an apartment in Mesa and rode my bicycle to work and back (10 miles) everyday. After another week or so, Mark and Sarah got in touch and suggested my checking out a furnished apartment closer to where I worked, with someone If I recall they knew that wanted to rent out a room in their apartment. So I guess they did vouch for me, which was nice, as I didn’t have any references besides them and don’t recall needing any or anything like that. I took the room and remained there for some months until I moved to NY.

Since Mark has said all these things about me, I’ll have to address every one.

a. “The Group called us every day during late September and October to see how we were doing.”

I never knew of these phone calls but given the way Mark has evidenced vast exaggerations, I doubt they called him “every day” for some 40 days?

b. “They were worried he was going to go off the deep end.”

Why is Mark being so vague? What does “deep end” look like? What did they say that gave DO that impression. I want details.

c. Mark says, “He did” (go off the deep end). He goes on to say about me, “Swyody boomeranged into drugs, music, sex, and a general tendency to do nothing.”

I did no drugs whatsoever. Even if I did want to smoke pot, I didn’t know anyone who had it and I just didn’t have that desire then. When I moved to NY it was my brother who re-introduced me to smoking pot and that’s as far as I ever got into “drug” usage after having joined the Class in 1975. As a kid in my late teens I was an avid pot smoker and did a bunch of acid trips.

Mark shows so much evidence of jumping to all sorts of conclusions and making all sorts of assumptions and exaggerations and outright lying.

At that time I did buy a harmonica while I was driving back and forth to my job using Mark and Sarah’s car before I bought a bicycle. But I never played it for them or for anyone or with anyone. When I was in that apartment I bought a set of Conga drums and began to play them. I was subletting from this youngish woman but I had nothing to do with her and didn’t know if she was a musician. I feel I played those drums a little in that apartment and she never said anything about it. I can’t actually remember how I would have got the drums into that apartment. I didn’t have a car and they were not light weight. And then I moved out to the other apartment and could only play them when the owner wasn’t there. I rented a flute. I didn’t listen to music at all.

I certainly didn’t have sex with anyone and didn’t even want to have sex with anyone. In fact it was several years later that I had sex so again where in the world is he getting this stuff. He’s lying.

I think what’s happening here is he is seeking to get back at me for calling him out on his many lies and misinformation generation that he has committed for over 20 years that I know about and can prove with many articles that I critiqued on my blog sawyerhg.wordpress.com. His memory is growing bad it seems and he appears to be losing recognition of what TI and DO taught which is apparent in this interview. He seems to be blaming DO and Class members for his situation while feeling like he has been vindicated because He and Sarah were given a few simple tasks. I’m not saying they weren’t difficult tasks as even keeping the website up and running and fielding lots of negativity for years is no easy task but I know that tasks as I have been dealing with the same for many years and it’s doable and especially if we trust TI and DO will help us as we go and ask of them.

d. His motivation was nearly at zero as he bounced like a pinball from one human experience to the other.

I wasn’t even talking to them about anything. I didn’t eat with them. I didn’t ask them questions. I knew nothing about what they say here they were telling DO. Look at the way Mark is expressing himself as if he knows anything about anything that I was doing. He just wants to put me down with his silly analogies.

Motivation? I was motivated to continue my life outside the classroom. Did I have a plan, No, I did not. I found the job, I bought a bicycle to ride to work. I bought instruments to restart my musical talents.

e. “We finally told them that we had to push Swyody out to an apartment we’d found for him, to allow us to continue with our lives.”

I found the Mesa apartment by myself. I couldn’t stand being with them in their house. They lied to DO if they told DO that they had to push me out to an apartment. I wanted to leave so I did. It’s true they helped me find a better living space closer to where I worked, which I was thankful for.

How is it that I interfered with their lives? Perhaps using their car, but that’s why I bought a bicycle. Perhaps they did say that they needed the car. I could understand that but I wasn’t just sitting around in their house. I was looking for work and I found work and then also secured additional work from my old employer when I lived in Scottsdale, AZ working for Murray Whipps, who had the software company Phoenix Phive Software who I programmed for. He hired me to work from home, which went into affect when I moved to NY.

f. “He became a bum and ended up with some musicians in Mesa, which somewhat surprised the Group.”

I never met anyone. I had no friends in Mesa or AZ for the months I was there. How was I a bum when I was working a full time job. It’s on my social security information when I worked for the Marriott resort hotel. They never gave me any money that I recall. On may days off I would ride my bicycle many miles to a grocery store, buy food and put the bags in a basket on the rear of the bike and hold some bags on the handlebars of the bike. They are losing their lawsuit against me and since I talk about them in a derogatory way because of their lies and deceit over 25 years on my live-stream I suspect Mark couldn’t not have an interview where he could vent against me. Since he has nothing truthful and substantial to say, he is exaggerating and outright lying.

I believe Mark and Sarah also resent me and Cathy and Carlan for not bowing to them and challenging the deceitful things they say over and over to people.

g. “It was no coincidence that, thirty months later, he did not receive any of the Class’ final instructions about what to do following their departure. They had his phone number and address but sent him nothing.”

I didn’t know they had my address and phone number and wouldn’t have minded if they had. I occasionally spoke with Rkkody on the phone then and Rkkody may have sent me some things then. I know Rkkody was in touch with DO even in 1994-1997 though was out of the Classroom again. Rkkody at one point asked me on DO’s behalf, “what up with you” to which I said, “nothing has changed for me”. I would say that’s why they didn’t send me a packet. I didn’t express to them that I wanted service. I’m embarrassed by that but that’s what was happening.

Mark seems to use it as a way of putting me down, when he and Sarah did receive an instruction packet but then ignored most of DO’s wishes in it and now are preventing people from hearing the audio tapes that is also against TI and DO’s wishes that are well documented in the audio tapes and their many public actions they took after TI left that were timely with that stage in the Classroom and for those who were yet to awaken to embrace TI and DO’s Mind.

h. “He also birthed a child – which we did not, so we’d be ready for Next Level instructions.”

This is quite the telling statement. He is comparing what I did with what they didn’t do. I am not in competition with them but they appear to be in competition with me – otherwise why even bring up this comparison? Sure having a child does have some restrictions on where to go and when. But having a business does the same thing if one can’t leave that business without the business suffering.

I still found ways to serve TI and DO and did all the time. They don’t know about all that because I don’t answer to them and never trusted them.

And talking about being of service. If one listens to audio tape #333 you will hear how DO wanted some Students to minister to Mrcody and Srfody to help them get out of turning against their Older Members (who DO was one of). Also you will hear how DO offered them tasks and they refused them and they didn’t even have children to blame such refusal on. They didn’t want their lives interfered with, DO indicated.

i. “He has since taken on roles of dissemination the Group did not give him.”

j. “These tasks are self-generated and not from the Next Level.”

I guess Mark and Sarah missed how part of DO’s total effort in the years after DO left was spend on dissemination of the truth they bore, their information, the Mind He and TI drew into their vehicles to give to their student body and to the world.

Did Mark ever read the Heaven’s Gate Book, I wonder. After all, it says in many ways that “getting their information out” was literally a task for all Souls who have returned. (see the text below). I am one of those Souls. Cathy is one of those Souls. Every new believer is one of those Souls. Mark and Sarah want to pretend only they are commissioned to disseminate TI and DO’s information and on top of that they aren’t even doing that task except by hiding themselves behind the website as if that’s enough to do. There is no enough to do. They literally said to Cathy and I in person, asking us, “isn’t what we are doing enough?” They seem to see TI and DO’s teachings the way a religionist new ager might see them as a body of information that is for study purposes only. No application is needed yet without application of what They described in part or in full according to each person’s desire, no service is being provided to them and without service only an illusion of working on their behalf, though of course I am not anyone’s judge or my own but what I can judge to some degree is what came from TI and DO’s Mind though their writings and audio and video tapes. The Lower Forces hate to hear or see TI and DO’s teachings provided anyone as they want to steal Souls to their ranks.

Segment from Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure, written by Jwnody – trusted elder student of TI and DO, in the Heaven’s Gate Book and shown on Heavengate.com:

“There is a tiny remnant left of a window for catching the eye of the “caretakers of this world.” In order to get saved for further planting, the overriding requirement is to recognize that this is true (these are the facts). You must believe that we represent the Kingdom that created this planet and all of its inhabitants. And you must be willing to take a stand in defense of that belief, and sustain that stand until the end – your departure – regardless of the consequences.”

“You must be willing to take a Stand in defense of that belief.”

What does taking a Stand look like, one may ask. Can anyone defend someone if they don’t know what they stood for and what they said and did? I think not. So this compels new believers and old believers to learn all they can about what TI and DO and Crew taught and to then be equip to share that with others when/if the time arises that they want to Stand in Defense as this states.

And one must “sustain that stand until the end – your departure – regardless of the consequences

Also from same document:

“The only question that remains unanswered is how long the Next Level will permit the alien forces to present their agenda – how long is long enough for all souls to pledge their allegiance for or against – to one side or the other. Every soul must be put to the final test. And as we warned you at the outset, consider your options thoroughly. Hasty judgments are ill-advised.”

If all souls must be put to the final test what does that final test look like? Souls using human vehicles must choose who to pledge their allegiance to, for or against TI and DO. What does allegiance look like – again would that be Standing in Defense of TI and DO?

In another spot in the same document.

“Every soul, that was a part of a deposit, at any time during this civilization, is back to make their choices once again. Some of these may be younger, perhaps second- or first-trimester, souls. Although they may not even have a chance to get to know us before our departure, we do recognize them, because they “recognize the enemy.” They see through the lies and no longer want to be a part of this world. And so it is our task to give them a chance to leave this place by getting this information out. Often the symptoms of a deposit from our Domain can be seen in an individual’s lack of motivation or rebellion against the world, or “system,” and what it has to offer. In their futility, many of these individuals turn to the corrupt devices that are most anesthetizing. You will not find them with the so-called mainstream righteous, but more likely with your social dropouts or even as addicts or criminals – as your so- called “sinners.” Another manifestation of worldly dissatisfaction can be seen in the current movement of radical separatists – patriot/militia types – who clearly recognize the corrupt condition of today’s governments (particularly the dominant governments of the Western world). It is for those that we have come again – to give them a way out of this corrupt human kingdom, which was never designed to work or be satisfactory unto itself.”

This sentence to me clearly aligns with the last two listed here:

“And so it is our task to give them a chance to leave this place by getting this information out.”

“Our” is referring to DO and Crew of which Jwnody was/is a part.
“them” are the Souls who have returned, some being first or second trimester souls which means some may be third trimester souls like Jwnody was.

“them” are being given the chance by DO and Crew (our) “to leave this place by getting this information out”. Does this mean that the process of getting this information out could be what causes some to leave this place, aka exiting their vehicle because of?

Doesn’t that match, being “willing to Stand in Defense of that belief (of TI and DO and Crew being from the Kingdom that created the earth and all it’s inhabitants)?

And one must “sustain that stand until the end – your departure – regardless of the consequences

---

So, in summary, this time is a test time for all souls. In a test there are requirements to get a passing grade (to be saved from recycling):

• Get the information out
• Believe TI and DO are Reps from Creators Kingdom
• Be willing to Stand in Defense of that belief
• Maintain that stand until the end – your departure regardless of the consequences

Who is this written for:

Every Soul who is back whether first, second or third trimester Souls

So if Every Soul is to get the information out and this instruction was given by DO via Jwnody on his behalf, anyone who performs getting the information out would be working for DO and it would not be “self-generated” as Mark claimed I was doing. Such tasks were generated by DO and Crew here.

Am I a first, second or third trimester Soul?

DO said I was and it can be seen in the Beyond Human series session One.

So Mark is dead wrong to say, “He has since taken on roles of dissemination the Group did not give him. These tasks are self-generated and not from the Next Level”

k. “In fact, his information and views are quite the opposite.”

Isn’t it telling that one can see here that exactly what Mark is claiming about me are the very things he is doing. He’s the one who keeps on expressing views that are the opposite of what TI and DO taught. Remember in the section #13 Mark said, “From the beginning, Ti and Do knew we would not be entering the Next Level in our human bodies” and I then showed how TI and DO actually said the opposite by showing proof in Statement One, UFO Missionaries Extraordinary (and I could show that proof in a number of places).

l. “He appears in every interview because we turn them down.”

If so, then why did they turn them down? Could it be they were doing documentaries that they wanted someone who was real, someone with a face and a voice rather than just some email chats that say next to nothing most of the time because they don’t want to take the time to really explain how TI and DO taught because they remembered so little because they went against DO after they left and didn’t keep up with listening to tapes and reading their actual words but instead cultivated their own New Age interpretation so that those who knew them personally would look up to them in some way as Spiritual leaders.

I suspect they turned down broadcasters because they didn’t want people to know what they looked like and sound like. I suspect it was because they had too much to lose in the businesses they had if they were seen on television speaking favorably about what most of the media portray as a Suicide Cult. It is scary but that’s the price one pays to Stand in Defense of TI and DO being from the Creators Kingdom who created the earth and all it’s inhabitants.

m. We take care of all the legal issues, and the production companies run to him in need of talking heads. Such has been the cycle for many years now.

Yes, they took care of some legal issues but they have created for themselves having many legal issues. For instance, though DO didn’t give them any instructions to copyright anything but a common law copyright on the Heaven’s Gate Book, they filed copyrights that are in question as to their legitimacy because according to Judge Lisa Guy Schall they showed her no documents that brings evidence the group was transferring anything to them. What the judge states in her decision in 1999 was that they were only to be distributors of the Intellectual property. We even have Sarah stating this on record. That’s a far cry from being the only distributors and copyrighting some of the audio tapes that weren’t even in storage when San Diego ruled them to go to the deceased estates. Upon Mark and Sarah’s appeal the judge didn’t want to hold up the ruling to sell in auction the personal possessions of the group, she then settled and sold Mark and Sarah the Intellectual property in storage that included the audio tapes and charged them $2000.00 and required them to give them several of the groups cars that DO had instructed be given to some of the 8 former dropouts who wanted to serve then and to one new believer.

Niklas:

In 1995, the Group purchased forty acres of land in Manzano, New Mexico. It had previously served as a summer camp, as evidenced by the mess hall still standing on the property. Inspired by the housing model laid out in Earthship: How to Build Your Own – a book by American architect and ecologist Michael Reynolds – they constructed a veritable fortress from recycled tyres and cement. The structure even boasted a guard tower and a stash of firearms.

16. Mark:

– We were not aware of the Earthship or the related activities. It seems they put in a lot of work there. But we did help them with many requests while they were in New Mexico, such as funneling cash donations.

16. Sawyer:

Let’s see some examples of where the donations came from and how much.

Niklas:

Were any of the donors unaffiliated with the Group?

17. Mark:

– No, we are not aware of any donations from outsiders. During the 1990s, a few former members would supply cash to aid them in their mission. But beyond Ollody and Lggody in the late 70s, there were never any substantial donors.

17. Sawyer:

So there were no donors from outsiders and there were no “substantial donors” from within the group besides Ollody and Lggody. Who is left to donate? Maybe I’m missing something but he might be losing his mind here.

Niklas:

Once the weather turned cold, maintaining the Earthship to a satisfactory degree became too much work. So, after ten months in Manzano, the Group relocated to Phoenix. Soon after arriving, they set up a foundation called TELAH Services – TELAH being an acronym for The Evolutionary Level Above Human – meant to handle mail requests for books and tapes.

18. Mark:

– We kept in touch through 1995 until they, ‘by chance’, entered our new postal store in Phoenix to establish a mail-order relationship. Using our company office as their address – the one still on the website to this day – Lggody and Mllody set up TELAH Services as a legal entity with a bank account. It was all tied into their online activities and other tasks. They turned the corporation over to us in May 1996; after that, we were asked to assist them with many things. We helped where we could, but safety for both parties was always in play.

18. Sawyer:

Mark said, “They turned the corporation over to us in May 1996.”

If that is true then why didn’t DO and Crew give Mark and Sarah the correct paperwork to support their doing something with Their corporation? And if Mark and Sarah couldn’t do what they hoped to do by having the corporation transferred to them why didn’t that get resolved before the Group left their human vehicles by March of 1997.

Niklas says in this article something about the complication they encountered in point 35:

“To complicate matters further, TELAH Services – the business set up by the Group and transferred to Srfody and Mrcody – was still registered to Logan Lahson, known in the Class as Lggody. The state of Arizona would not allow for this to be changed; instead, the entity itself had to be renamed.”

Is it right to assume Niklas got that information from Mark and Sarah? I think so as until recently only Mark and Sarah would know this since it was written about in Judge Lisa Guy Schall’s decision that Logan Lahson owned Telah Services.

In case Mark denies what Niklas reported here as Telah Services having been registered to Logan Lahson, aka Lggody in the Classroom and legally John Michael Craig, here is the verbiage to the legal document from the:

SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO STATEMENT OF DECISION of what to do with the possessions of the Heaven’s Gate group in the name of JOHN MICHAEL CRAIG, also known as LOGAN M. LAWSON, aka LOGAN LAHSON, Deceased in Case No. PNO22228 that was presided over on January 11, 1999 in Department A of the above-entitled court, the Honorable Lisa Guy-Schall, Judge, presiding shows the matter was tried without a jury and concluded on January 13, 1999.

This court case documents the possessions of the Group in the Mansion and in the Storage units. The Public Administrator marshaled a Certificate of Trade Name Registration for Higher
Source Contract Enterprises (Trial Exhibit Number 211), and an application for Registration
for Trade Name for Telah Services (Trial Exhibit Number 212), which are in the name of
decedent Logan Lahson, aka John Craig.

So some of my questions about this involve why Mark and Sarah King flew to Washington D.C. to meet with Bureaucrats to rename Telah Services as Telah Foundation. Wouldn’t the Group have saw to that happening IF DO and Crew wanted Mark and Sarah to make that change? Yet if Mark and Sarah hadn’t done that, I doubt they would have been able to make a case for registering copyrights and trademarks the Group gave no indication they wanted done.

The only form of that DO and Crew expressed in the Letter to Mark and Sarah was stating that the wanted Oscody to register Their Book with the Library of Congress.

But apparently Mark and Sarah were not happy with that instruction alone and chose to copyright 486 of the 1061 audio tapes found in Storage, The Beyond Human series (the Group had documented that they copyrighted as shown on the original tape jackets, to Total Overcomers Anonymous, aka TOA, the lithographic image referred to as the CBE art work – Celestial Being Entity, and trademarks for the Away Team Patch, the use of the phrase, Heaven’s Gate and the use of what is known as the Heaven’s Gate logo that pictures a giant keyhole with the words Heaven’s on top and Gate inside the keyhole.

They have no proof that they received instructions from DO and Crew to copyright and trademark anything yet they have lied to my face and Cathy’s face and to Carlan saying they had all of the Groups Intellectual Property copyrighted.

I haven’t figured out whether they have done something shady with these copyrights yet but it appears they did, perhaps unknowingly but they are using those copyrights to try to stop me, Cathy and Carlan and even Jhnody from disseminating TI and DO’s audios and other information they left behind for all to have.

There is a great deal to show in all this but I’ll reserve it for another time but I just wanted to show a little of the causes for great questions of what Mark and Sarah have done and continue to do and think that it’s right by TI and DO to sue former Classmates and new believers for sharing TI and DO’s information. It’s bizarre but they don’t see it. They don’t think they could be wrong in the way they say they think about doing the dissemination task for DO.

Niklas:

Also in May 1996, for the first time in 4,200 years, the comet that would eventually become known as Hale-Bopp grew visible to the naked eye. It had been completely unknown to the scientific community until ten months earlier when two amateur astronomers, Alan Hale and Thomas Bopp, discovered a gigantic heavenly body with a dust envelope the size of our sun approaching the orbit of Jupiter. In contemporary popular culture, Hale-Bopp seems to be the primary association most people have with Heaven’s Gate. However, it is a common misconception that they believed a spacecraft to be trailing the comet; rather, it was interpreted as the celestial omen they’d been waiting for. Hale-Bopp caught the entire world’s imagination and inflamed interest among everyone from religious personalities to conspiracy theorists. One outlet that picked up a lot of the extravagant ideas in circulation, such as the one about a UFO hiding behind the comet, was Art Bell’s classic radio show Coast to Coast, which the Group is said to have listened to regularly.

19. Mark:

– We don’t like UFO shows – they are boring. Srfody and I paid no attention to it and heard about this only after they departed. And no, there was no craft following the comet. Hale-Bopp was never important to us; it was just a marker. As was Easter.

19. Sawyer:

Boring, Mark says. I guess he doesn’t care about what DO cared about and said about UFO’s, Space Aliens being the same Souls known in the records as Lucifer and his associates who went against their Next Level Older Members and now try to turn humans eyes away from the reality that TI and DO were actually The Father and “Jesus” who promised to return to complete the task.

Why not take this interview as an opportunity to talk about how TI and DO talked about Comet Khoutek in 1973 as a marker of He and TI’s 9+ months of awakening and how the lower forces sought to stop them from performing their task.

I could understand being asleep when it actually happened, because I was not that interested in it then but if they sought to be in service to TI and DO by participating in the Dissemination Project DO and Crew spoke about they and at least the other 6 former students, they hoped would perform on their behalf after their exit, then they would have to learn everything they missed in the time they were choosing to remain outside the Class. If they did begin to study the materials they left behind in the Heaven’s Gate Book, they would have to see that in the time after they were sent out of the Classroom, DO started a very in depth investigation into the UFO phenomena that included Space Races (aliens). They would have read the USA Today Info/Ad that spoke about how they seemed to believe that Their Students had come to earth in spacecrafts and intentionally crashed some of them, laying down the existing dense physical bodies they had before then so they could take over human vehicles that they with the Next Level’s help picked and prepped, to be vehicles they would try to take over and make their servants to complete their remaining overcoming of humanness to qualify to become Young Members of the Next Level Above Human, the graduation Jesus laid out some of the requirements for, that he called being “born of Spirit/Mind” after they were “born again of water” (flesh).

And if they did take an interest in the Hale Bopp Comet, they would learn that DO not only considered it the Marker they had been waiting for but how He considered it the Marker He and TI had been anticipating coming all along that included TI’s spacecraft coming to literally pick them up, something neither they or I qualified for.

They would come to see how different Hale Bopp was from any other comets. And if they weren’t interested in it and UFO’s then how did they expect to provide service by explaining TI and DO’s teachings and thinking about such things.

Regarding UFO’s, a boring subject? Again, isn’t there a great value to learning at least what DO said about the subject over the years they missed. For instance in the end of that document DO wrote entitled, “’88 Update – The UFO Two and Their Crew” there was a list of books and video’s DO found interesting about the subjects of UFO’s and Space Aliens. The list included several books and Video’s about UFO’s like “UFO Crash at Aztec”, “The Roswell Incident”, the documentary “UFO’s What’s Going On” and much more. There were the autopsy reports from Leonard Stringfield and much more.

No wonder why they seem to hate me and Cathy and Carlan. Though we are far from perfect we are attempting to bring eyes and ears to all the information DO and Crew left behind for us (all in the world) to consume. They don’t seem to want to do that except in the most minimal way of keeping the website up and eventually posting the Beyond Human Series on Vimeo after they had been posted on HeavensGateDatabase for close to two decades. And they still hardly send anyone any of the audio tapes yet they are filled with a vast amount of information that to even someone who has no belief in TI and DO would find fascinating. Why hasn’t the Heaven’s Gate Book been put on Amazon or other places on the internet. It’s like they don’t want to sell them. I think they are blinded by their own fears that people will kill themselves yet all they have to do is keep on reminding people of the posting on the website that is entitled, “Our Position Against Suicide” and what DO said about that action in DO’s Final Exit, that death isn’t a ticket to Heaven and what Stmody said about suicide being of no value for those who remained who had not had a relationship with an incarnate Representative and how we all need our human vehicles to use to learn the many lessons there are to learn in the human kingdom including conquering addictions and selfishness and dealing with certain failures and jealousies, etc.

Plus to say definitively that, “there was no craft following the comet” further shows they don’t know how wrong they can be and that they both need desperately to begin to accept the reasons why they were sent out of the Class and accept the embarrassment that comes with that and stop acting like they are these great leaders assigned by DO to be some type of overseers of the legacy of TI and DO (by hiding away 1061 audio tapes) acting exactly opposite what TI and DO and Crew clearly expressed many times in many ways in the past and even in the Letters they sent to them, Rkkody, Jhnody and no doubt others about what they hoped would happen after their exit Perform the Dissemination Project.

They show their ignorance and huge ego to tell me I’m not working for the Next Level. It’s just like this statement that there is “no craft following the comet”. How do they KNOW that. Are they so in tune with TI and DO’s Mind. If so how come DO didn’t say there was no companion object with Hale Bopp Comet? What DO said was that “it was irrelevant” whether there was or wasn’t a spacecraft with Hale Bopp Comet because he knew TI was coming to pick him and his students up with or without their physical bodies (which is part of why they packed a bag).

Actually when one examines all the documentation we can find on the existence of a companion object one could come upon, as I have, the photograph from a Japanese Observatory that shows evidence of a large object close to Hale Bopp Comet and how when Hale Bopp disappeared behind the Sun and came out the other side it then had three tails, which was before then unheard of. Comets normally have two tails. Plus in the gatherings that scientists did in the years after Hale Bopp came to perihelion they studied many pictures and determined that it had a “dual nucleus” and that these two nucleus’ were in orbit around a common center. In other words it appeared to be two objects. Perhaps the Companion merged with Hale Bopp and hence the third tail as in the Japanese photo the alleged companion had a black tail.

Niklas:

By October 1996, Heaven’s Gate – still using the Total Overcomers Anonymous moniker – had left Arizona for California. They took up residence in the exclusive San Diego community of Rancho Santa Fe, renting an enormous mansion for a whopping $7,000 per month. Earlier that same year, the Group had founded a web-design company called Higher Source; I’m assuming this is what allowed for the accommodation upgrade.

20. Mark:

– We think there has been a misunderstanding about the financial assistance provided by Higher Source. It was basically a wash. A lot of money was invested when the company started in April 1996 – computers, technology, etc. – and it only lasted until February 1997. There was some revenue from website contracts during those ten months, but the start-up costs were very high. In late March or April 1997, we tried to acquire some of the account receivables the Class asked us to retrieve but got none of it. The clients denied having had work done or even knowing anyone from the Group. Some out of embarrassment for being associated with a ‘cult’, whereas others just didn’t want to pay the bill. So, Higher Source did not bring in the kind of funds the rumors say. We have their financial ledgers, and it simply isn’t true.

Niklas:

How did Heaven’s Gate come to have so many skilled IT professionals?

21. Mark:

– It wasn’t the case of having skilled IT professionals: they were devoted Next Level members who could perform whatever tasks they were assigned. Many of those who worked in this field did not have computer backgrounds. Students learned, improved, and excelled. We could switch our skills to whatever discipline was needed to carry out the task at hand. Classmates could write and edit a book, then switch to handling a backhoe the day after, only to start developing construction skills when building the Earthship. The Group switched over to the internet and coding in 1996. Whatever was needed could be filled by members. Many individuals learned to code, and the best were picked for service. With a clear, focused, and disciplined mind, you can handle many things coming your way.

21. Sawyer:

Mllody was the first Class-member to get an OOC Task working with computers. She had a college degree in IT, trained to be a Cobol Programmer before she joined with TI and DO. Mllody quickly qualified to have jobs for Banks like MTech and Computer Companies like Hewelet Packard. She advanced to become a Programmer Analyst even a manager of those kinds of departments in big corporations.

Nrrody also might have had a degree before she joined as she became a manager of Technical Writing for Dell and for Texas Instruments and other large corporations.

It was in the 1980’s when TI and DO bought us an Apple IIe computer. They wanted others to learn office work using computers so we’d get better jobs in the world to support the needs of the Classroom and so that we wouldn’t have such unpredictable schedules we had with the restaurant jobs most of us had then. They wanted us to have 9am to 5pm Monday thru Friday jobs so we could count on having weekends off for more concentrated Class lesson time, meetings with TI and DO. Plus they paid better. I was given the option to get familiar with the Apple IIe and I was intrigued by scrolling the pages of computer code that made programs work so I studied the coding language Apple Basic.

I advanced in office jobs to gain contracting programming jobs in Texas. Srrody who also either had some skills or developed them from study like I did, also got good Assembly Language and C Programming jobs, while mine were using BASIC and 4GL’s like DBase, etc. At one point DO had Srrody and I form a company. We got a DBA for the name, Think Link and later another called, Word Wise. We secured a contract to develop software for a Houston Bank I think we got paid about 8,000.00 for.

Later 5 of us got jobs at Subscriber Computing, Inc. in California. I was a programmer there as was Srrody. Mllody was a programmer Analyst manager and Nrrody the manager of the Tech Writing documentation department. Stlody was a Networking Technician. We lived in San Diego area while working those jobs remotely all from one room in the Craft. Then when we moved to Arizona, Mllody and Nrrody kept their manager jobs by doing so with conference calls and occasionally flying back to California to attend mandatory meetings.

I could be wrong but believe I held down programming jobs even before TI left her vehicle in 1985 but if those were just office jobs then I certainly was programming by the time Mark and Sarah were sent out of the Class in 1987 but perhaps Mark just didn’t know about that happening to say the programming started in 1996.

Niklas:

In October 1996, the Group released two videos: Last Chance to Evacuate Earth Before it’s Recycled and Planet About to be Recycled – Your Only Chance to Survive – Leave with Us. This concept of an impending Recycling was a core tenet in the Heaven’s Gate worldview. They believed the Next Level to regularly carry out full planetary resets of the environment, as well as of any lifeforms sustained by it. This is typically implemented through catastrophic natural events, such as whatever ended the era of dinosaurs. The only chance for consciousness to survive would be to transcend to the Next Level. From their perspective, actual suicide would be staying behind to face the Recycling as an ordinary human. But simply offing oneself without having first qualified for and then organized a Next Level collection is pointless, seeing as how it would merely trigger another cycle of reincarnation.

22. Mark:

– Srfody and I found the information on the tapes consistent with what we’d been taught. As you know, they were styled differently to appeal either to a religious or a sci-fi-oriented audience, respectively. For security reasons, the Group often had us handling the shipping. We sent them out to the appropriate locations: many legal, governmental, and religious entities in the United States and the rest of the world received copies. We also dealt with the returns, of which there were many. Lots of ‘Return to Sender’, ‘We don’t want your tapes’, and similar mean-spirited rejections. The religious organizations were especially rough. Every TV evangelist received a tape, and their responses were mixed. It is always amazing to see what kind of behavior such people can justify as compatible with their teachings.

22. Sawyer:

Because of the many responses from Mark in this interview, many of which the reader will come to read, to where Mark seems to have a view of DO as a leader who believed rumors about Mark and Sarah put forth by certain classmembers and felt DO believed he made a mistake to send Mark and Sarah out of the Class, this first statement seems to reflect that same attitude. He says, “Srfody and I found the information on the tapes consistent with what we’d been taught.” Was there ever a possibility that what DO said in those video tapes of DO speaking might not be consistent with what He taught? I could be wrong but from a bunch of things Mark and Sarah have said to me personally and have done, I suspect they were comparing things DO said in those tapes with things TI (and DO?) said when TI was still in her human vehicle. This is not a fabricated idea as I’ve said before.

A number of former students, among them, Rthody (Michael in docs), Andody (Frank in docs), Pmmody (Lee Ann in docs), Dncody, (Dick in docs), Cddody (Fred in docs), to varied degrees, along with academics like Professor Robert Balch (who infiltrated the group in 1975 to study them) and lately used more in docs, Professor Ben Zellar and others, all at one time have said to me privately and/or publicly, if I recall correctly, that after TI left her vehicle in 1985, DO changed the direction TI would have had the Class go, even not leading to “suicide” – laying down – leaving their human vehicles by their own hands.

Considering how Mark and/or Sarah were quoted to have said publicly after the Groups exit, in 1997, I think on the Art Bell show, that “the gate is closed” after DO had said in a press release that there was (paraphrased), a “brief window of time to exit with them” and because Mark and Sarah have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they don’t value DO’s instruction in the Letter DO sent to them that instructed them to (paraphrased)… “divide the items of value among those inclined to disseminate our information,” which should have included giving audio tapes to Crlody (Carlan) and myself (Swyody) (as well as Jhnody and others), especially considering we were fully engaged with sending people the 200+ audio tapes Rkkody had retrieved from Storage. The reason Mark told me he would not give me any audio tapes was because I would put them on the internet for anyone to have and that they were meant to be only used privately. Also in this interview Mark said something about their belief that TI would have exited sooner than DO did as if to say DO was off track in that way as well.

What Mark didn’t address from what Niklas stated was that DO never said there would be no “consciousness to survive” the recycling and that only those who transcended their humanness would survive but DO said that there were three groups of people who could survive the spading under of the garden and the last group didn’t have to know anything about TI and DO but that more is required of those who do know about TI and DO.

DO also didn’t say that staying behind to face the recycling would be suicide. It wasn’t a fact but a warning that the longer we are hear the more the lower forces can work on us to find reasons to stay but that while we are hear we can serve which is our choice. I don’t know what it means to say one must organize a “Next Level Collection.”

Also, I find the way Mark and Sarah and in this case Niklas talk about reincarnation seems to me to not jive with what DO said about reincarnation. Many humans think reincarnation is automatic after death. But I believe it can be shown that TI and DO taught that reincarnation is a choice when it’s referring to souls – a choice the Next Level helps Souls they want to return to choose the body they are going to work with when it’s time to do so when Older Members are coming incarnate. Spirits don’t really reincarnate because they are really just like leaches though one can choose not to be.

Niklas:

Mrcody believes these videos, along with the written material produced during the Group’s final years, primarily targeted the hundreds of former members across the country. Despite dropping out, often due to an inability to master their human urges, many remained Next Level devotees. Should Mrcody be right about this, it would explain one conundrum I’ve been grappling with regarding their last-minute recruitment run. My layman’s interpretation is that an individual must undergo an extensive Classroom setup – taught by Next Level tutors – to be eligible for graduation. And, as I’m sure Mrcody could attest to, this is unlikely to be attained in a mere few months.

23. Mark:

– Yes, it would be nearly impossible for the uninitiated to fully understand the ways of the Next Level within such a limited time frame. The Group indicated to us clearly that they were always going after former members. They wanted them to be part of the upcoming departure. There were never any indications of when this might occur, but they had to cast nets and former students were the easiest to catch. The only new individuals to bite were Lkkody and Dvvody, in September 1996. The Group were going to put them in our halfway house in Phoenix but decided to just accept them into the Rancho Santa Fe craft instead. Dvvody took to it, but Lkkody was out in weeks. Dvvody was indeed an exception – definitely ‘the last shall be first’.

23. Sawyer:

Nothing is impossible with the Next Level. I really dislike the way Mark talks here. “The Group was always GOING AFTER (my upper case) former members.” It’s not even accurate to say that way. I mean, sure TI and DO wanted to provide what they knew to former students but when DO had the video Jwnody and I made in 1992 put up on satellite dish, uploaded by Hughs aircraft that was with the idea of presenting the truth to Christians and I would say most of the former members were not among them.

There was little to no response so DO reconsidered and felt to make the Beyond Human Video Tape Series which we also uploaded to a Satellite TV channel. The address provided was TOA that went to a Post Office Box that kept on being forwarded to wherever we moved to after that. Most of the replies came from former students.

But next DO wrote the USA Today Info/Ad and that was put in that newspaper on May 27th, 1993 if I recall correctly and it too had a PO Box people could write to. From that we got quite a number of requests for more information from prisoners and others all over the U.S. who we began to correspond with. We had a number of partnerships assigned by DO to keep up with certain ones who wrote us. We sent some Beyond Human video tapes. We even attracted a homeless person who DO had meet with Alxody and myself in Flagstaff, AZ while we lived in Paradise Valley, AZ to see if he might fit into the Classroom. I spoke to DO on the phone and expressed that Alxody and I didn’t feel any reason to not bring him to the Classroom. He did join us and soon left because he couldn’t fit in. He chose the name, Ready so became Rddody. He was okay at first but soon thereafter he began to be critical of me and others and DO told him about his not being able to judge me (us) and so he couldn’t handle that criticism so left the Class.

Then when we put the new version of the USA Today Info/Ad into a bunch of New Agey Periodicals in New Zealand, Australia, England, Scotland, Canada and all over the U.S. we again received mail and exchanged letters and sent some Beyond Human video tapes to some. Again none were former students and DO felt from they would really need to be in the Class to progress and that wasn’t possible, shown also by Ready (Rddody).

Then that prompted DO and Crew to prepare to hold face to face meetings all over the U.S. which we started as a test case with Denver that Jwnody and I were speakers for and in Albuquerque where Chkody and perhaps Alxody were speakers. That seemed to be a positive so we prepared to live camping again and drove away on January 1, 1994 to hold meetings. From that 9 months we had added over 12 new members and only a few were former classmembers and at least one of them, Arrody when he realized in September of 1994 that we were talking about laying down our vehicles by our own hands, decided that wasn’t for him so left us.

Then when Dvvody and Lkkody who were married in the world and had 4 children together wanted to join and did, again these were not former students.

This terminology of throwing out a net to catch new members was hardly if ever used by TI and DO. Sure there is a parallel but that also can be a big turn off and it’s hard enough for people to see through the discarnate and space alien influences that want to keep people’s eyes shut to seeing who TI and DO are. Though I don’t mind that I was “caught” but what was really happening is that the vehicle was caught by the Soul with that vehicle and offered training like a Rancher going to the wild to catch some horses and then for those that accept the ranchers training they even become part of the ranchers family while the others are let to go wild again.

But I don’t think he is right by the evidence I just showed to say the former students were “easiest to catch”. Another point to this not being our mindset of catching people. At the Chicago meeting in 1994 that Evnody and I as overseers of one of the Groups were speakers at, we met with two in the audience that said they wanted to join us. When I told them how we were living and eating pretty much what we were given in donations, even fast food, they said they couldn’t do it because they were strict vegans. We at one point had been stricter vegans than most vegans but that wasn’t the program now so that was a strong indication that they would be too ridged to fit within the group so we turned them away.

We at that time nor thereafter don’t need to have new believers or followers. It’s simply our joy to see some responding that way but as soon as they choose to take some other path it’s like how fast can we help you leave because we have tasks to do for the Next Level and are interfered with by people who are on the fence.

In 1996 I’m not aware of who had been in Mark and Sarah’s “halfway house”. When I was there for several weeks there wasn’t anything half way about it, not at least as I saw it. But perhaps I didn’t know of someone in the class staying with them as a half way situation.

Niklas:

Matthew 20:16, ‘So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.’ On March 21, 1997 – the day before Hale-Bopp’s closest proximity to Earth – Mrcody and Srfody had a conference call with Do and the Class. The Group announced that plans had been made to take the leap, so to speak, and travel off-world. They had some requests regarding the management of their legacy.

24. Mark:

– They all thanked us profusely for what we had done and would do. It was a very kind and loving call. We had just received a parcel containing the latest version of their anthology and knew they wanted us, with the help of Oscody, to make sure it got published and submitted to the Library of Congress. We talked about that as well as the other work coming our way. However, we didn’t quite realize the full scope of our task until the FedEx boxes arrived the following Wednesday.

24. Sawyer:

First off, Simple error of no consequence – Mark and Sarah knew the group had told them they had exited in their Letter in the Fedx package they admitted to receiving on March 25th which was a Tuesday. So if they received a conference call from DO and The Class on March 21st, a Friday it wasn’t the following Wednesday when they knew the full scope of what their tasks were to be.

If what Niklas says here about the 21st call included The Class saying to Mark and Sarah that “plans had been made to take the leap” then when Mark and Sarah received the Fed X that following Tuesday, the 25th why didn’t they open it right away to read it’s contents and since Rkkody reported when he called Mark that same day on the 25th he was told by Mark that they hadn’t yet examined it closely, why didn’t Mark immediately report that news to Sarah at home. Rkkody called Sarah at home right after he hung up with Mark and said that Sarah didn’t believe him that the Class had exited. According to Rkkody when Mark got home that afternoon or night he shared the Fedx with Sarah.

I understand that Mark and Sarah could have thought the entire time they had had some association with the Group after they were sent out of the Group that the Group prepared a packet to be sent to the world should they exit. Mark and Sarah both knew that while TI was in her vehicle they did that every year as well. Apparently because they weren’t in the Class that whole time they didn’t know how series DO was about exiting at that time. Had they been in touch with Neody (Rio) after Rio left about two weeks before the Class left, he could have told Mark and Sarah how serious they were about exiting then, with the timing of the Hale Bopp Comets perihelion.

Mark reversed history in this statement regarding Oscody and the book instructions from DO and Crew regarding the registration of the book with the Library of Congress when that task was given to Oscody not to Mark and Sarah. He says, “We had just received a parcel containing the latest version of their anthology and knew they wanted us, with the help of Oscody, to make sure it got published and submitted to the Library of Congress.”

Here is the direct instruction Mark and Sarah received. On page two of one of the Letters they got from DO’s crew on March 25, 1997 by Fed X, (that the reason we have is because they gave those Letters to Rkkody on March 27, 1997, according to Rkkody and Crlody who learned this from Rkkody, to turn over all their tasks the Class gave them for Rkkody and Oscody to do, which was what DO’s Crew suggested if they couldn’t or didn’t want to do the tasks themselves as They hoped. It states:

“We also asked Oscody to register the Heaven’s Gate book with the Library of Congress and that if he needed any funds to accomplish this, that you would cover it out of the project funds that you have on hand.”

It was Oscody’s task. He was assigned to be the primary and all Mark and Sarah were instructed to do in that regard to the Library of Congress was to provide the funds for it if Oscody needed those funds.

As Mark often does as shown throughout this interview is twist things, probably not intentionally but probably forgetting what the instructions actually were. He also probably added himself into the task and may have even canoodled the task away from Oscody. My understanding from Crlody who learned it from Rkkody was that Oscody also received $10,000.00 from the Class for the Project.

Also what “project” were they talking about. In several other Letters to Mark and Sarah and to Rkkody and to Jhnody the Project is spelled out to be the Dissemination Project. And this is the project Mark and Sarah hid from starting and then when they wanted it back, expanded on it so that they began to think only they were given such project even though DO said they could include those on the list as some to work with initially at least but could include others in and DO didn’t name others so it was up to “others” who made their desire to share in the dissemination task known. Thus Mark and Sarah should have, like Rkkody shared with me the audio tapes at least since they were digitized so easy to share.

Niklas:

Starting March 22, employing the same teamwork efficiency with which they prospered both professionally and privately, the remaining thirty-nine members went to their human deaths in three shifts over three days. Those in line for evacuation ingested a lethal dose of an anti-seizure medication called phenobarbital and then potentiated it by downing some vodka. This would’ve been the first drop of alcohol many of the students consumed for over twenty years. Wearing identical uniforms, complete with the famous Heaven’s Gate Away Team patches and Nike shoes, they pulled plastic bags over their heads, secured them, and laid down to die. Upon expiry, Classmates from the next shift removed the bags and draped their corpses with purple shrouds. Do was part of the third and final wave, which was down to nine people. He left third to last, assisted by Lvvody and Jnnody – two women in their mid-forties, the former of which attended the Waldport meeting with Mrcody – who then covered him and followed suit. The next day, March 25, Mrcody and Srfody received a FedEx parcel containing a personal letter addressed to them, a press release, a list of the other recipients, account details for heavensgate.com, and various keys to cars and storage units complete with maps and directions. There were also two tapes containing ‘exit videos’, showing the departed members’ goodbyes. I’m trying to imagine what it must have been like to watch these heartfelt but visibly elated farewells from people they’d shared so much with.

25. Mark:

– The two videos were in SVHS format and could not be played on our home equipment, so we had to get them converted and then watched both in one sitting. We do not feel sorrow. We were happy they made it, but there was simultaneously the sense of having a big task ahead of us. It felt really special, and the humor we saw directed at us was very funny. Do and the Group loved laughter.

25. Sawyer:

I don’t know why that statement about humor was included in this interview.

For the record, Rkkody and Jhnody and as many as 4 others also received Fed X packages on March 25, 1997 from DO and Crew. In each of them as I understand it they received maps to be able to find them in the house, certain exit tapes and recycling tapes and Beyond Human Series tapes and in Rkkody and Jhnody’s case, at least, received the Anthology version one of Their Book with instructions.

Niklas:

Speaking of which, I’ve found the Heaven’s Gate material to contain some rather subtle and clever elements of humor Nothing whimsical, but more of a dry and poignant wit. Several remarks in Do’s tapes, as well as the ’88 Update, for example. Not to mention the Nike shoes; ‘Just Do it’. Jwnody – Mrcody’s old check-partner, the one who was pregnant when she joined the Group – closed her exit statement with a Star Trek reference: ‘Thirty-nine to beam up!’

26. Mark:

– We were laughing all the time. Their wit was priceless. The pocket contents of an ID, a five-dollar bill, and some coins was hilarious. Sending us non-durable power of attorney over everyone in the Group, knowing they terminated on death… could you imagine the reaction if someone had survived, and their families found out we held the legal authority? The account receivables from Higher Source, even though every single client would deny all affiliation. The Class knew we’d get the back of the hand from some former students, but our letter said, ‘You are about to inherit what’s left of our purser task, to do with as you choose.’ Our detractors never mention that sentence. Also, the ‘If you choose to accept this mission’ part is especially delicious. Their love of fun was wonderful.

26. Sawyer:

I have no problem with how they performed the Purser tasks they were given. My problem is with how to handle the Groups Intellectual Property – disseminate it freely without strings and they don’t like that unless they are doing it and they won’t do it so the information remains hidden for now over 20 years.

Even though we know that Members of the Class could make mistakes and DO didn’t necessarily examine and re-examine every purser choice, relying on his crew members to do the necessary research, as ultimately any mistakes made by Pursers weren’t going to affect their intention for their information to be disseminated to the world. But to read what Mark said here as:

“Sending us non-durable power of attorney over everyone in the Group, knowing they terminated on death… could you imagine the reaction if someone had survived, and their families found out we held the legal authority?”

To me when I read this it felt almost like a mockery of Pursers and ultimately AGAIN DO, the families had someone lived would have been outraged to find Mark and Sarah holding their rights. First off the Pursers said they were sending them “a comprehensive Power of Attorney”. The reason they were given power of attorney was described in their Purser letter:

“We are sending you a comprehensive Power of Attorney for anyone expecting a tax refund, or who has major items (cars, credit cards, insurance, rent, etc.) in their name. We don’t know if these will be accepted by those you deal with, or if you’ll have any reason to use them.”

I haven’t seen the documents so I don’t doubt that legally they were non-durable thus terminate upon the principals decease but if I were to guess about what happened in that case, I would say Pursers may have overlooked that a comprehensive power of Attorney, depending upon the language could be non-durable as they did wish for Mark and Sarah to have access to the funds they might get from tax refunds and assets in certain classmates legal names.

Yes, they stated in the Letters that they could do whatever they felt was right for them, but DO also had his Crew writing the letters state what DO and Crew’s desire was. Thus it became a matter of doing the task DO wanted them to do or doing it their own way. Mark and Sarah chose to ignore much of what DO’s desire was and instead do things their own way and that’s why so much got botched and that they are continuing to botch. DO’s desires are not complicated.

It’s sad that they talk about getting the back of the hand from some former students when they have been using a club against us hiding the audio tapes and not allowing us to make an audio Heaven’s gate book and not allowing anyone to support our own efforts of dissemination of Their Information by putting their images on T shirts and other places for sale. After all DO’s Crew said from the items of value retrieved from storage one could make some funds to support the project from them. They won’t even let us play part of an audio tape on my YouTube channel anymore. They allowed me to do it for over 15 years and now that I have more audios they are suing me for playing them and others.

Niklas:

What were the five-dollar bill and quarters in the Exit Team uniform pockets about?

27. Mark:

– According to the autopsy report, the individuals who departed had all sorts of change in their pockets. Some were found with pennies and dimes, others with only one quarter. When heading out to our OOC tasks each day, we brought along our state ID – usually a driver’s license – so that we could legally identify ourselves. We also took a five-dollar bill to cover the vagrancy fines in any state, plus one to three quarters to call the house if we were running late. Humans take these things for granted and never consider why they must have them to function in society. It was our way of not letting ourselves be tripped up by petty legal issues. To us, this ‘dispatch procedure’ was rather amusing since we knew it was a wink and a nod at former Classmates. Did they need to do this? No. Was it indicative of following basic procedures until the end? Yes. Was it an inside joke? Yes. Humans were confused about this because it was for us to joke about, not them. It was a lovable trait we appreciated greatly.

27. Sawyer:

I recall that initially we also were given a $5 bill and some change to use the $5 if our task out of the craft was delayed and we were missing an experiment (what we called a meal) to buy something to tide us over and/or to make a phone call as needed.

Mark doesn’t seem to consider that to DO and Crew it was possible TI could heal their vehicles and/or resurrect those vehicles and/or take the vehicles and even make a spectacle of it and send a Next Level Member on a task using that vehicle they would heal and/or use the clothing for Members of the Next Level to do a task on earth and not look like they were from the early 1900’s.

Also Mark Twain, in his movie Captain Stormfield’s Trip to Heaven, written in the first decade of the 1900’s states that the fare to ride the tail of a comet to Heaven was $5.75. I didn’t think all had that amount but got reports that a number did.

I don’t think it was that much of an “inside joke”, though yes it was humorous, but I think it also was making a statement that any who did the research would find out how much Mark Twain (Samuel Clemmons) was far ahead of his time.

I know I could be wrong about this and it’s not really anything I consider important to consider because I don’t recall DO or TI talking about the 1897 UFO crash that happened in Aurora, Texas. I began to wonder if this was a Next Level stimulated crash as it had one occupant in the report and wasn’t a human. I wondered if the Soul that was in that vehicle had a task to perhaps be like a John the Baptist to begin to prepare the U.S. for the upcoming return and even influencing Samuel Clemmons in his use of the Mark Twain character. Samuel was also a Mississippi River boat captain. The captains deck on such a boat was referred to as the Tejas (Texas) deck where the Captain resided. DO whose vehicle was from Texas where TI and DO both chose to incarnate into human vehicles prepared for them, talked about being like a Captain in Next Level rank where he talked about TI being like an Admiral, using Navy terms, again like the captain of a ship (Riverboat). The Mississippi River, TI and DO considered to be a type of dividing line on the U.S. “ship” to where west of the Mississippi River was where They felt most in touch with their Older Member (who would have been on a spacecraft somewhere in outer space (heavens) overseeing Their task. When TI and DO would travel east of the Mississippi River they felt that sense of being in contact with their Older Member diminish or even be absent. It’s of further interest that in…

Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

…there is the depiction of a “reed like unto a rod” used to “measure the temple of God”. In biblical interpretations, a River is a way of depicting many humans, even with seas referring to the sea of humanity. The Temple can be thought of in at least three ways. It’s the building where Humans worship God. DO said to worship really meant, “to work for”. Another meaning refers to the Souls inside of People who are making further application to graduate out of the human kingdom and into the Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human, aka Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven – the literal heavens (elevated areas above the earth where the planets and stars are).

It was interesting that Mark Twain was a river boat Captain and one of his tasks was to “measure the depth of the water” so his boat won’t run aground They used a long rod to measure the depth. This was the first verse in Chapter 11 of the Book of Revelation that went on to talk about the Two Witnesses and their both being “Christs” – anointed ones that Zechariah showed in prophecy of seeing TWO that he recounted he received from an “angel”.

So I began to think of the Western U.S. as the Temple area. TI and DO did venture east of the Mississippi to look for potential lost souls who hadn’t made their way west like most of those who became their students.

Next I began to examine the next verse in Revelation 11…

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

…which talks about The Court that is outside the Temple and not to measure it, hence very few meetings were held in the eastern portion of the U.S. during either the 1975-6 public meetings or the 1994 public meetings. However, DO didn’t follow prophecy so he had us still venture into those areas to be thorough and did find a few students there. In the 1990’s DO had the Crew begin to measure areas east of the Western U.S. relative to the two sides of the Mississippi River yet few attended those meetings.

When Cathy and I got together, Cathy being a relatively new believer in TI and DO was more on fire with the Information than I. After all there was a lot of tapes, etc. that I had heard and I was sort of in the mindset that most of what I would do to disseminate TI and DO’s information would be best done through the internet.

But now we were together and she wanted to see if we could set up meetings wherever so she set up a meeting in L.A. in November of 2021 and then of late in Savannah, Georgia on December 17, 2022. At the meeting in Savannah there was a sizable interest. Perhaps this is the time for the Court is most appropriate for meetings but I suspect it’s all over.

I am not of a mind that TI and DO and Crew did anything for one purpose alone. I doubt they did anything to be an inside joke for former Classmembers even though former Classmembers would be able to bring practical thinking to much that they did.

My book is full of these kinds of potential connections and I feel there are still more to be discovered.

Niklas:

On March 26, the day after the FedEx delivery, two former students named Rkkody and Oscody – both of whom had received letters of their own – flew to San Diego to retrieve vehicles and various Classroom materials. They picked up the Lincoln Continental waiting for them at the airport and then drove to the Group’s commercial storage space.

28. Mark:

– It was an opportunity for Rkkody to clear out the storage room. Oscody tried to get him to do it, but Rkkody was only interested in some audio tapes, his designated automobile, and the cash stored in it. Rkkody said his back was hurting, so he didn’t want to put the contents into the moving truck we’d assigned to him. They then went up to the mansion in Rancho Santa Fe at about 5:30 pm and were met by a large police presence. Rio, another former member, had made his way there first. Rkkody and Oscody left the area and drove to Phoenix.

28. Sawyer:

How come Mark doesn’t correct Niklas’ understanding of the timing when Rkkody and Oscody went to San Diego on the 26th. Maybe he still doesn’t know what Rkkody wrote in his manuscript. Rkkody knew nothing about the instructions Mark and Sarah received on March 25, 1997 in their Fed X packet that contained Letters from The Class. The evidence that Mark and/or Sarah had read at least the Letters addressed to them in the packet is because according to Rkkody, Mark and Sarah called him at least on the 25th and 26th wanting their address at this business that they agreed to provide to the Class to be taken off the website, as they knew Rkkody had the website access codes and know how to make changes. The Class talked about Rkkody doing that task in the Letter to Mark and Sarah. Mark and Sarah also said they planned to take their names and Rkkody’s name off the letter DO asked them to send to SAM, the owner of the house, after they had a “chance to get to the address” where their bodies were layed down to their death. That instruction about sending that letter was in their letter.

Here is the segment from the bottom of page 2 of the Letter addressed to MRC/SRF signed by The Class:

“URGENT Note: Please drop the letter in the mail addressed to our landlord, Sam, as soon as you feel comfortable that he will not get that letter before you have a chance to get to the address listed in the “Location” document.”

After all, Mark/Sarah knew Rkkody and Oscody went to San Diego on the morning of the 26th. It’s hard to imagine Mark/Sarah didn’t know before they left about the content of the Letters addressed to them since the instructions on handling that Letter to SAM was in the same letter as I just showed.

So it seems evident Mark and Sarah caused both Rkkody and Oscody a wasted trip to San Diego area.

Rkkody said he was on the phone with Mark/Sarah on that wasted trip as they were coming back. Mark just skips telling about how Rkkody and Oscody went back to San Diego area on March 27th 1997 after Mark/Sarah gave Rkkody most all their letters so on that second trip they did have most of the instructions and keys to get the cars with. But I don’t know how much opportunity Rkkody and Oscody had to study the contents of Mark/Sarah’s letters as for some reason they didn’t know about the Yellow Truck for that trip.

If Mark/Sarah had alerted Rkkody/Oscody to the need to get the truck, then they wouldn’t have only retrieved the Lincoln to have very limited space to haul away the full contents of storage that the Class didn’t want authorities to have.

Key points on the Timeline according to Rkkody’s manuscript:

March 25, 1997: Rkkody received two packets and read them and called Mark who was with Oscody. They hadn’t looked at the contents of their own packets completely by then, he wrote that he learned on that call. Rkkody slept on it.

March 26, 1997: Rkkody flew to Phoenix from Denver and he and Oscody drove to San Diego from Phoenix and got to San Diego area before the news had broke and got about 10 minutes away from the house at Rancho Sante Fe and heard on the radio that the bodies were discovered.

Rkkody doesn’t indicate at that time that he knew anything about the cars or the truck or the contents of Storage. It was the 27th when they learned of the cars and Storage instructions from Mark and Sarah when they turned over all their Letters to him.

So they flew back to Phoenix that same night and stayed at Oscody’s place there and Mark called Rkkody around 3am (Thursday the 27th) wanting Rkkody to make changes to the website to get their address off of it, though it was the address they gave to the Class to use.

Rkkody said he couldn’t do that at first because when he tried the server was down from all the hits the website took.

Then that morning of the 27th, they met with Mark and Sarah in a parking lot and Mark and Sarah gave him all the correspondence they received from DO and Crew, plus keys to some 7 cars/vans/trucks they had parked at the San Diego Airport and paid for and the codes to three storage lockers in two locations, San Diego and 2 in Escondido.

Then Rkkody and Oscody flew to San Diego, took a shuttle to the airport parking and took L car, the Lincoln that was instructed in the letters to go to Rkkody and they drove it to the storage in Escondido and opened the storage and it was full and they took 6-7 boxes of audio tapes out and put them in L car and went to the other storage unit in that complex and saw that it was mostly filled with camping equipment and household items. Then they went back to the airport parking area and got M Van slated for Oscody to have and put some of the audios in it and then Rkkody and Oscody drove back towards Phoenix. They stopped at a motel after driving for a couple of hours and slept and early the next morning of Friday the 28th drove the rest of the way to Phoenix.

I feel Mark is trying to muddy the waters here of what happened because they don’t want to admit they ran away from doing the task DO gave them to do.

The way Mark talks about this Rkkody and Oscody went to Storage before they went to Rancho Sante Fe. But that wasn’t possible as they didn’t know about the Storage locations nor units nor codes and also didn’t have the keys because Mark and Sarah who had all that information didn’t give it to Rkkody until the morning of the 27th. Their failure resulted in San Diego getting most of the contents of Storage.

Mark says, “Rkkody was only interested in some audio tapes…”, but what other “items of value” in that storage room were the most valuable items of value if not the audio tape library that he and Oscody only got 486 of? In Mark and Sarah’s letter Rkkody was designated to have the L Car and the Letter also said that he, Oscody and Mrc/Srf (Mark and Sarah) were getting money, so why not get it.

Why didn’t Mark and Sarah help with that retrieval of cars and as the Letter from DO’s Crew said, regarding the Storage “any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information” task? They did nothing though DO made them the primary on those tasks. It seems quite apparent they were too scared to do anything so they turned over the task to Rkkody and Oscody just like Rkkody reported in his manuscript and told Carlan happened. Mark conveniently doesn’t ever talk about those clear instructions from DO in the Letter.

Some might say that Mark and Sarah gave Rkkody and Oscody their Letters because that was the best way to give them the exact addresses to the storage units and the pass codes to the various storage units. Fair enough, but then why include the Letter that the Class sent to them addressed to Chris and Holly? And why give Rkkody the Letter from Purser re: the Higher Source company accounts receivables showing how much money they were owed and by whom. That Letter also listed Postal Boxes the group had, included Power of Attorneys/ID’s for them all, two Bank Accounts, one for Higher Source and one for Telah Services. It included Voicemails and even Phone Cards with money still on them and instructions that they shouldn’t have any bills to pay and expressing why they didn’t think they needed to cancel registrations and insurance for the cars because they figured they’d be sold or re-registered anyway. That Letter also indicated they had made arrangements to get them some funds that they were also sending to Oscody and Rkkody. They also got a Letter that said who else was receiving a similar letter and one of those was Rkkody so why give him anything but the information to get the cars they were given the task to be the primaries to retrieve from the airport in San Diego where they were prepaid for parking.

Rkkody wasn’t even sent all this information about the cars as they were and wasn’t told about the Storage Room because Rkkody wasn’t to be a primary on the task. Mark and Sarah surely knew that if they were given the instructions, they were the primaries on the task and that the suggestions to use Rkkody and Oscody and others as needed that was in their Letter was their choice to include as Secondaries on the task. Sure they were given the choice to not be primaries and to do whatever they felt right about but if they wanted to serve exactly according to DO’s hopes, they would have gone to storage. They even told Cathy and I in person that they did go to storage and the lock had already been put on the doors but according to Rkkody only Oscody went to Storage for the second and last time, who reported that to Rkkody and certainly to Mark and Sarah. They told Cathy and I they didn’t go to storage the first time because they had to go to San Diego to ID the bodies, but we learn hear they only sent a document to San Diego authorities to help them ID the bodies. They knew this looked bad for their version of the story and that it gives more credence to Rkkody’s version of the story that he wrote in his manuscript about that time that his daughter had and Carlan was given by her and that he just recently shared with me.

After all if Rkkody’s account of Mark and Sarah turning over their own Letters they received, with the keys to the cars parked in the airport in San Diego didn’t happen, and the truck in storage, then how did Rkkody get the keys and Letters. And why did certain Letters have the names blacked out when they were clearly meant for Mark and Sarah.

DO knew this might happen, I bet, which is why he gave Mark and Sarah the out of doing things their way. DO knew that Mark had demonstrated over years of not following certain procedures if they didn’t make sense to him. (See audio tape 37 where DO gives him several lessons in this regard and audio tape 204 where DO refers to having to “mute” Mrcody because he had become too much of a wagon master which was never procedure. And yet that’s exactly what they became surrounding the Intellectual property of Heaven’s Gate that they gained access to. Mark tried to lure me into his fold in the early 2000’s I think it was. He told me if I came to his area he would show me the proof that he and Sarah were to control all their Intellectual Property. I wanted nothing to do with his “group” he believed himself with Sarah to be the leaders of. I knew that DO’s intention (and TI’s) was for every believer to participate in disseminating Their Teachings to others. I’m not saying I wouldn’t have liked to work with the others that were still alive, like Flxody and Ablody and Pypody and even Jhnody and others that ended up gathering in Arkansas, but the task of disseminating wasn’t that complicated as they were making it into. Just do the task. Step out into the street or put up one’s shingle on the internet and share exactly what TI and DO said with others. By that time I was doing just that and only wanted him to stop hording the audio tapes so I could send them to people who were asking and deserved to receive them.

Mark said, “Rkkody said his back was hurting, so he didn’t want to put the contents into the moving truck we’d assigned to him.” We refers to he and Sarah.

This is another of Marks skewing the truth to make himself look like he was in charge. The assignment to the truck came from DO and Crew in the Letter to MRC/SRF (Mark and Sarah), the same letter Mark and Sarah gave to Rkkody because they apparently didn’t want to do the tasks DO gave them.

In the Letter it said, “We also have a 20 foot yellow truck in a separate storage unit and we did think that RKK would be a good choice to retrieve it. It’s big enough to be able to haul all of what’s in storage, we believe. The truck storage paperwork is also enclosed.”

Furthermore Rkkody received in one of his two Fed X packets from DO on March 25th 1997 “receipts and insurance forms for the old Ryder truck the class had bought a couple years ago in Texas”

Like I already said, I believe Rkkody’s account which says he and Oscody never got to the mansion. They were about 10 minutes away when they heard the story on the news so they turned around and went back to Phoenix.

I have no idea who told Mark that Rkkody didn’t get the contents of storage because his back hurt. Who else could have told them that, Oscody? I could see Rkkody opening the door to that large storage unit and seeing it filled to the top with boxes, saying something about his back, but did that mean he wouldn’t have found a way to tackle the task. The fact was according to his account that he didn’t have the truck with him at the storage unit at that time.

It appeared at that time that all Mark and Sarah cared about was getting rid of their names on the letter to SAM and taking off their mailing address on the Heaven’s Gate web site and hiding from the responsibility DO offered to them by turning over all the tasks to Rkkody via the Letters we have from DO to them because that’s how Rkkody got their letters in the first place.

For the record, Mark almost always puts Rkkody down as he does to me, Carlan and even Cathy and to date Juan (Jhnody) and he so often either has a very selective memory or just remembers little or manipulates the language to make him and Sarah look like they have no faults in anything that happened then or happens now. They are supreme finger pointers and yet they think we, Carlan and I are finger pointing at them except there is one huge different. We can prove using his own words that he and Sarah are either often sloppy in their recounting or leaving out crucial details or have contradicted what they even have said or are outright lying or only giving partial truths while taking no responsibility This interview by now I’ve shown to be full of these kinds of statements that even go against TI and DO wishes and Minds.

It’s very sad and I wish I didn’t have to be on their case but they are the instigators of hatred and negativity keeping TI and DO’s audio tapes away from people galore over 24 years while saying they want to share them with people. We have all this on record, expressed by them.

I believe Rkkody’s account 99% of the time more than Mark and Sarah’s accounts and I have multiple witnesses on this score. There is Carlan who worked with Rkkody at that time soon after the group left and Rkkody told him many things and Carlan witnessed many things coming out of the mouth of Mark and Sarah and the inclusion of lies and forms of deceit. There is Rkkody’s daughter who may not even believe in TI and DO but was sued by Mark and Sarah, who threatened to take away her house (as she wrote to me about in 1998, and Rkkody talked to me about in 1998 before he exited his vehicle). There is to date Cathy who was witness to emails from Mark about me before she knew me in person. And there is Jhnody (Juan) who saw through how Mark and Sarah had tried to keep people from sharing TI and DO’s book with others and the many audio tapes and how they have tried to issue strikes against me on YouTube for my fair use of the audio tapes Rkkody had sent me in 1997 and that Jhnody sent me in 2021. I won with YouTube became my channel, 3spm wasn’t monetized ever.

Speaking of Mark and Sarah instigating strikes against me on my YouTube channel: 3spm. They issued one against my reading TI’s only official document entitled, “The Power of Goodness”. Plus Cathy and I were reading aloud on the 3spm channel the Heaven’s Gate Book and they were against our doing that too. It’s even one of the seven counts against Cathy and I in their lawsuit against us. We wanted people to be able to turn the tapes on in the car or at work to listen to or for the blind to listen to. But they told us they need to be the controllers to oversee everything and though I have no problem with looking to overseers on tasks, they were not my overseer of anything as even though they were given tasks by DO doesn’t mean they are performing those tasks as DO hoped.

Rkkody has a lot to say in his manuscript and he had zero reason to lie, while Mark and Sarah have so much dirty laundry over the years from before and after the group left that they don’t even seem to know how far afield they have gone against TI and DO’s true wishes as expressed in the Letters, for the little tasks they were given that they may by now be hanging themselves in the stand they have been taking against them while making their teachings some saccharine pseudo spiritual religion.

Niklas:

Did you have any idea what awaited them in the mansion?

29. Mark:

– None of us knew the details of how the Class would exit, but we pieced it together soon enough. We were with our attorney group in downtown Phoenix and told them it was going to happen at any time. One of their assistants burst into the conference room and said, ‘Turn on CNN, now!’ Via our legal counsel, we assisted the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department throughout the evening. We sent them a chart of the expired so that they could be identified quickly. We supplied all the relevant information.

29. Sawyer:

The first day the news broke was March 26, 1997 so that must have been the day they were meeting with their “attorney group” when what Mark said happened. Why were they meeting with their attorney group on the day the news broke. They only learned they had exited from the March 25th 1997 Fedx packet or did they arrange to talk to attorneys after the group called them on March 21st to say they had made plans to “take the leap”? Does that mean they were meeting with attorneys to see if they would be liable in some way if the group really had exited as it indicated in their March 25th packet they did? Isn’t that a bit risky. How did Mark and Sarah know the Group wouldn’t have changed their mind and put off their exit for days or weeks, months or years yet they were telling attorneys “it was going to happen at any time”. Doesn’t that show specific foreknowledge. Wasn’t that information meant to be between DO and Crew and Mark and Sarah. But telling an attorney group would have meant they would tell so many people that could have easily led to the police getting involved to try to stop them which would have been a major security breach of the Classes privacy to do.

I knew the details of how the Class was planning to exit. Of course since I left in 1994, DO could have changed the plan from what he told us but as it turned out it was almost exactly the same plan DO talked to all the class about in September of 1994 in a warehouse meeting in San Clemente, CA. I didn’t know when and didn’t know if they would follow through because we talked about many things we didn’t do. But Mark and Sarah weren’t privy to that information because they weren’t in the Class then nor at any time until they exited, so there was just so much they would be told about.

Cathy and I are witness to Mark and Sarah saying they got their last Fed X packet from the Group on March 25, 1997, the same date Rkkody, Oscody and Rio and I suppose others received theirs. (Not sure when exactly Jhnody received his in Venezuela but it was very close to that day).

Rkkody says in his manuscript that he got his on March 25th 1997 and same day he called Mark and Oscody was with him and had received a packet they “hadn’t looked over closely” yet but then a while later that day Rkkody spoke to Mrc/Srf after they had examined their content of their packets because they talked about the letter the Class included in Mrc/Srf’s packet they gave them instructions to send to SAM, the owner of the Rancho Sante Fe house. It was Mrc/Srf’s first concern that on that letter were their names and Rkkody’s name. Rkkody said they were all afraid to have authorities having their names. So Rkkody said to Mark/Sarah to do what they felt was right and he understood that they got rid of all three of their names on the letter and then sent it to SAM after the bodies were found (which was March 26th 1997).

Cathy and I asked Mark and Sarah face to face at their lawyers office in Phoenix in November of 2021 whether they knew the Group planned to exit their vehicles and they told us they didn’t have any foreknowledge but what Mark is saying here is that they did have foreknowledge on the 21st unless Niklas got that wrong but if so then why didn’t Mark correct him in his reply to that question/comment?

Niklas:

Given Mrcody and Srfody’s security-mindedness, it must have been a somewhat disconcerting realization that the street address of their livelihood was listed on the Heaven’s Gate website – upon which the entire world’s attention now rested. I read many contemporary news stories stating that reporters had reached out to the owners for a comment about their affiliation with TELAH Services.

30. Mark:

– We knew this would be difficult to handle. When the full pressure of the global press and legal entities is applied, you must be quick on your feet. We stayed away from direct questions and told the reporters that TELAH were box-holders at our business. We were careful with what we did and where we went. Some of our employees wondered what was going on, but we instructed them to remain quiet and only take messages. It quieted down in a few days and passed entirely within a reasonable amount of time.

30. Sawyer:

So it seems their fears at first were unfounded. They could have trusted DO’s using their address for the Heavensgate.com website. They could have trusted that when DO included their names on the letter DO asked them to send to SAM, the owner of the Rancho Sante Fe house. They could have trusted that if they acted quickly they could have communicated with others who received Fed X packets and letters to all go to the Airport in San Diego, retrieve the cars left there for them as described in one of the Letters to them from the Group in their packet, and retrieve the Truck from storage the Group thought Rkkody could retrieve and then could have all gone to the two main storage rooms and unloaded their contents into the Yellow truck and then they never would have had a problem with San Diego county confiscating the storage contents. So quick on their feet as Mark brags was slow and really complicated getting the items of value from storage out of San Diego’s hands.

According to Rkkody they were hiding out and wouldn’t even talk to Rkkody on the phone out of fear they were being tapped or something. Rkkody said he was trying to check with them about things but they made it hard to do. Rkkody said they and Oscody had some kind of code to use to get in touch. I don’t think any of that was wrong to do but they way they say so little about what actually happened and how fearful they were is another of the many subjects they skirt around and seek to hide from the public view. It’s a big problem when someone thinks so much of themselves that they can’t stand to recognize and admit their mistakes that we all make. But then their mistakes are being used to date to sue me for doing what DO wanted all of us to do – participate in the Dissemination Project.

Niklas:

Several of the letters to former students stated, ‘We want you to feel free to exercise any available options with whatever timing feels right for your own next step’. As did Srfody and Mrcody’s – but with the added phrase ‘No doors are closed to you’. I’m unsure whether this was an invitation or a humorous reference to all the keys included.

31. Mark:

– We knew this had two meanings – from departing after them to taking the steps necessary to protect and carry out our tasks. We’d been left with the lion’s share of their work and legacy. Some former Classmates had specific assignments which could be completed in days, whereas we have tasks for the remainder of our lives.

31. Sawyer:

The entire paragraph from DO and Crews Letter signed by The Class reads:

“Also we want to make it clear that we’re certainly not asking you to do these tasks if, after receiving this information, circumstances make it too difficult or other options seem more appropriate for you. We want you to feel free to exercise any available options with whatever timing feels right for your own next step. No doors are closed to you.”

Having read the other two pages of this Letter, The Class certainly expressed their desires, what they hoped Mark and Sarah would do, from working together with some of the following: OSC, RKK, JHN, FLX/ABL and NEO (Rio) and even potentially Soeren could be “included in events that transpire to whatever degree feels right. It was clear that those on the list just listed would also be potentially included “would be most helpful to you” then suggesting RKK and OSC as “would likely be a big help” but “including others would be OK as well, whatever your strategy permits.”

They said, “We put into storage items that we would prefer the authorities not have access to.” They said they could “do with those items whatever feels right to you.”

They said “We also have a 20 foot yellow truck in a separate storage unit, and we did think that RKK would be a good choice to retrieve it – it’s big enough to haul all of what’s in storage, we believe.”

They said in the Letter from The Class re: the disposition of the cars and vans and a truck:

“The large yellow moving truck can be found at our storage place (the accessing and disposing of storage items are covered in another note to you). Again, perhaps you could get some help from RKK or OSC in handling the truck and storage.”

They said they enclosed in the packet another document that “further covers the disposition of our cars and this truck.”

Then they said, “It is our desire that any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information.”

And added, “Any of the funds you retrieve can be used towards that end and for the living expenses of those involving themselves with this project.”

It seems they were referring to the funds that were in at least one car that they wanted RKK to retrieve but I guess that could include any funds that came from some of the items of value in Storage that included Away Team patches, video tapes, audio tapes, etc.

Then they said after they described working with the Romanian ISP with the website off shore in case authorities wouldn’t allow the Heaven’s Gate site to remain up and they talked about some BBC contacts working out of the CBC office in New York who had expressed to them interest in their story before they left, they went on to say:

“Of course, this is contingent upon whether or not you should choose to say anything to the media on our behalf. We would hope that the public would have an opportunity for more thorough knowledge of who we are and what we’re about.”

Then in the letter to MRC/SRF from The Classes Pursers they said, “You are about to inherit what’s left of our purser task, to do with as you choose.”

They state what they would choose writing:

“We are arranging to get some funds to all of you (RKK, OSC & MRC/SRF) from what we have on hand, but we know that there is no way we can pay you for whatever efforts you may or may not choose to contribute in collecting our loose ends and (my upper case) DISSEMINATING INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED HERE.”

Then in the same letter under the heading, “Funds Which May Come In After We Leave,” they write, “We don’t know if you’ll actually be able to get any of these funds, but if it is possible, we’d like these funds to BE AVAILABLE TO THOSE WHO STILL SUPPORT THE CLASS AND WANT TO HELP GET OUR INFORMATION OUT.” (my capitalization)

If they wanted funds to be available to those who still support the class and want to help get our information out, wouldn’t they want those same people to have that information they wanted to get out to the world? I am one of them. Cathy is one of them. Carlan is one of them. Jhnody who was on the list is one of them. There are other new believers who have that same desire. The Class, nor DO ever said anything that can be taken as a limitation of who could “get their information out”. It’s even reiterated in Jwnody’s document, “Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure” that “getting the information out” was a task all returned Souls would receive and that included Souls that DO and the Class never got a chance to meet before they exited their vehicles.

“We are hoping that you will solicit help from Oscar (OSCODY), RKK, FLX/ABL, and others as you need it.”

Would “others” be limited to only the names mentioned? There is ample evidence that they were open to anyone helping with the “dissemination project”.

In other words these were the primary tasks they were given and they didn’t really do any of them and yet when I did these tasks they acted as if I didn’t have a task from the Next Level to do them and were even going against them. They clearly preferred they do these tasks but it was always their way for the 19 years I was in observance that they always gave us an out so it would always be our free will to exercise and that’s the part of the Letters they cite that they use to back up that they are doing the tasks DO gave to them and those options they have chosen actually go against what The Classes desires and wishes and hopes were.

Sure Mark and Sarah put up the website and supported it all these years but it went to their heads that only they could do that. If only they were to do that why did Rkkody and Oscody and Jhnody receive the code for the websites on diskettes as they stated in Letters (but didn’t reveal they had sent to Jhnody, so that may have come to them as a surprise when I included documentation that Jhnody had the website and masters of the Beyond Human Video series and Books in his Packages from DO and Crew. Perhaps that came by surprise when I presented to the court as part of my defense against Mark and Sarah’s lawsuit against me, that evidence that others were also given the same dissemination task.

Mark and Sarah also did publish the Book but in doing so changed the copyright DO and Crew had included for the Book eliminating the encouragement to copy parts of the book or in it’s entirety as long as didn’t add or take away from those parts and not do so for commercial purposes. They could have included both that common law copyright notification and the copyright to the TELAH Foundation they created after the Class left.

They also did a token sending out of video tapes and a tiny few audio tapes, except for doing the right thing and sending Jhnody some 80 audio cassettes with instructions to store them only. When he defied that order they freaked on him.

Even when they sent someone audio tapes 1 to 4 (probably at most which Cathy got) they stipulated that they were only for her personal use. DO never gave those kinds of limitations.

So my points here are to show that Mark and Sarah chose to do most everything their own way and that way ended up being in contradiction to the desires expressed over and over and over by DO and His Class and they seem to be blind to seeing this reality which is very sad.

And why is it that Mark includes this word “protect” as something “necessary” for him/them to do. Of course one would protect the “items of value” the Class wanted them to retrieve from Storage. Why wasn’t getting those “items of value” from Storage the first priority of tasks they were given which would automatically “protect” them from harm and keep them out of the governments hands. But instead they demanded Rkkody turn over to them the 200+ tapes he got from Storage while Oscody already had the remainder of what they got from Storage, over another 286 for a total of 486. Rkkody finally gave into them, knowing they were given the primary task to divide up those items of value but Rkkody was covering his bets, not knowing what Mark and Sarah would or would not do with the audio tapes, so he copied them and began to digitize and disseminate them as DO wished. I’m harping on this word because Mark and Sarah have harped on this word. In the Cease and Desist document they sprang on us at our in person meeting in November of 2021 at their lawyers office it talked about how they were guided to “protect” the information. They sent audio tapes to Jhnody for safe keeping in Venezuela. That’s all fine and well but what about protecting the information by putting it in thousands of hands who want it while also protecting it in other ways? One of the answers to that question I would propose was because if they felt their task was to protect it’s far less stressful than disseminating as there is no real interface needed to arrange ways to protect the information.

This is one of the points Mark and Sarah got very wrong. They weren’t left with the Groups “legacy” – They were given the task to disseminate that legacy of information to anyone that wanted to do the task of that dissemination. Mark and Sarah turned it into their own “kingdom” so that only they would be the disseminators and they alone would dictate who could receive what of that information left behind by TI and DO and Crew.

Interesting that Mark leaves out how he knew DO’s intention was that all their intellectual property be disseminated to those who would want it to learn about what the Class was all about. He and Sarah even showed evidence in a letter to Rkkody that they intended to disseminate that information at that time. But somehow when it came to the audio tapes, they did send some to Flxody/Ablody (Mark said, but don’t know how many) and sent 80 audio tape cassettes to Jhnody (Juan), aka Francisco. But they insisted on getting the audio tapes Rkkody retrieved from storage. Rkkody copied some 218 tapes and began to digitize them and then eventually did give the masters back to Mark and Sarah. That was a very smart move because all but that 218 tapes were never released to the public except some of them in very isolated circumstances and very cumbersome ways and they would stimulate that they were only to be for personal use when DO wanted them to be given to all those who were inclined to disseminate their information. Mark and Sarah did the very opposite of DO’s instructions.

Now their lives are being occupied with keeping TI and DO’s information away from people. Their fears are unfounded. Again, they could have trusted DO.

Mark and Sarah never have recognized that they could be wrong about the entire way they have been handling TI and DO’s information. That’s why they were instructed to leave the Group and yet they blame their leaving on Classmates somehow conning DO to send them away as if DO was weak and would ever allow Class members to influence him (much or temporarily) from what he knew TI would have him do.

Niklas:

The Heaven’s Gate website offers German translations of the two Recycling tapes from 1996. Coincidentally, Rkkody‘s letter from the Class includes a remark about a potential seeker from Germany – ‘Oscody is in contact with this individual and has offered housing for him at the Phoenix satellite.’

32. Mark:

– There was never any satellite in Phoenix other than what the Group set up with us in May 1996. The German’s name was Sören. He never made it to the United States; Oscody told us he’d offered to do some translations but lost interest after the incident.

32. Sawyer:

Perhaps Mark and Sarah didn’t know that DO and Crew, in Rkkody’s letter referred to Oscody’s apartment as the “Phoenix Satellite” where Soren from Germany could stay if he came here where he could also be given a car to use. Also Mark doesn’t know I guess that Soren did make it to the U.S. not too many years ago and met with Crlody (Carlan) and went back. He often used the name Nathaniel of late.

In one of the Letters to Mark and Sarah, Soren was mentioned as someone Oscody had offered to help with housing which would have made that location a Phoenix Satellite.

Niklas:

After arriving in Phoenix, Rkkody drove to Denver in the Lincoln Continental. On March 29, Oscody returned to San Diego to continue the storage room clearance. After collecting the Group’s Mazda MPV minivan from the airport, he found that an external party had placed a padlock on the door. An employee of the storage company had recognized Dstody – one of the departed – from a news report and then alerted law enforcement.

33. Mark:

– Rkkody updated the website as instructed but failed at everything else we asked him to do. He was unable to accomplish the task the Group had given him and then proceeded to go his own way. This refusal of his lost us the storage contents. It took us two years of fighting the San Diego County property system and cost us a lot of money in legal fees to get it all back.

33. Sawyer:

What a hell of a spin Mark is putting on what really happened that we have lots of evidence of. Rkkody was the hero in this though may have made some mistakes as he suggests in his manuscript but the mistakes Mark and Sarah made are huge in comparison.

For instances, when Mark and Sarah finally sat down to read the Letters they were sent, they could have told Rkkody when Rkkody called him the same day on the 25th what instructions they received and especially how DO’s Classmembers had mentioned using Rkkody. They could have immediately planned to all go to the airport to get the cars and to the storage near San Diego to get the contents of two storage rooms. But they said nothing so Rkkody didn’t know all of what he should have been told about until the morning of the 27th when Mark and Sarah turned over all their tasks DO hoped they would do, to Rkkody.

So when Rkkody and Oscody drove to San Diego area on March 26th 1997 to go to the house they could have gone having the instructions in hand with the Storage directions and codes and keys to cars and the truck to use to load up the contents of the two storage rooms as they Group had spelled out was their desire. But Mark and Sarah either didn’t read their letters or they just were frozen by influences from taking any actions hardly at all except to try to protect their own privacy that wasn’t even really in danger as they did nothing wrong.

For instance when Mark and Sarah met with Rkkody and Oscody in a parking lot in Phoenix on March 27, 1997 at about 7 AM according to Rkkody’s manuscript, they weren’t instructing Rkkody and Oscody to do anything.

This statement is a complete fabrication to remove all of their responsibility from what transpired and point it to Rkkody who isn’t here to defend himself and yet left us with a great detailed account of all he did upon getting his packets from the Group and seeking to coordinate with Mark and Sarah when they were hiding from doing anything. They caused Rkkody and Oscody to waste time and they are the prime reason they lost the contents of storage.

Mark and Sarah turned over letters they got from the Class that included the letter from pursers on how to handle PO Boxes and the cars and the truck to be used for storage. The Letters are very clear that Mark and Sarah were given the task to work with the others on the list and others wasn’t limited to those on the list to participate in the “dissemination”…”Project”. Sure DO indicated they could do the task as they saw fit and even not do it at all, but if they chose to do it then the task was outlined well by DO and Crew to retrieve all the items from storage and divide them among those who wanted to disseminate them and even do the same with any funds from the sale of some of the items to support that project.

Notice Mark and Sarah didn’t take any of the blame for what happened to where the lock was put on storage before all the items of value could be retrieved.

Mark and Sarah told us to our faces (Cathy and I) that they went to storage and the locks were already on them from the authorities. Mark admits Rkkody went to storage. If Mark and Sarah were giving Rkkody and Oscody the Storage retrieval task, why didn’t they agree on getting the truck first. Why didn’t they share with Rkkody all the instructions in the letters. I’m not saying Rkkody and Oscody bore no responsibility in how it all was handled and I’m not pretending I would have done a better job. They were under a lot of stress. Rkkody gives evidence of how paranoid Mark and Sarah and Oscody were that is very believable.

All the while Mark makes it sound like Rkkody botched it all up. This is very telling of exactly why Mark was sent out of the Class. Yes, the “I could be wrong” lesson step was not one he wanted to follow because he had come to trust his own mind over his Older Members Mind. From the time he and Sarah were instructed to leave the Class in 1987, they began to cease looking to DO’s Mind less and less according to DO in audio tapes from that period and instead looked to one another’s Mind. This isn’t from my Mind to say this. We have over 12 clips from audio tapes with DO talking about it even more directly than I am.

Plus we have in this interview a number of times Mark blames Classmates and DO for wronging sending him out of the Class as if he takes no responsibility for wanting to leave and not return. This article shows how braggadocios they have become. I can reveal a number of emails between he and I over years that shows how he thinks he’s the boss over everyone. That’s exactly what he was showing TI and DO and Class members even in 1982, the reason he was “muted” by TI and DO from running the show. The Next Level has no trail bosses (wagon masters). They operate in crews. There can be Primaries and Secondaries on tasks but others on the crew are also responsible to pull on how their Older Members would handle things and how to follow procedures. Without learning to follow procedures we are worthless to the Next Level Older Members as they will have to waste time correcting things we botch up because we don’t follow procedures. TI and DO talk about this extensively in audio tape 37 with Mark getting the brunt of the lesson. I suspect he almost always had a low opinion about Rkkody and yet DO said in some of the same audios where he talked about Mrcody/Srfody that Rkkody with his shortcomings was “in much better shape” than Mrc/Srf because he wanted to look to his Older Member’s Mind.

This is all further brought home by the fact that Mark and Sarah are suing me, and Cathy and Carlan (Crlody) for doing exactly what TI and DO have made it very, very clear by dozens of examples they wanted to see and expected to happen after they left – their audio tapes combed over by many people.

Could it be coincidence that Mark and Sarah are not spoken of highly by DO in a number of the audio tapes as the main reason they want us to stop playing them on my youtube.com live-stream? I asked Mark this very question and he denied it and then reprimanded me for even “wondering” about it as if it would be out of the question. Could it be that Influences have blinded him to this and other reasons they want to hide TI and DO’s information.

Niklas:

In early April 1997, Mars Media – the company hosting the Heaven’s Gate website – discovered that someone had hijacked the domain name and taken the site down.

34. Mark:

– Chris Milus of Mars Media always tried to help us and was as kind as he could be under the circumstances. Unfortunately, Rkkody had allowed someone to steal the URL and take the site offline. It had been down for days at that point, and this stretched into months. It was another case of Rkkody keeping the website away from the public through all of 1997, contrary to the instructions left by Do and the Class. It’s been alleged that the original website came back up in August 1997, but we’ve seen no indication of that.

34. Sawyer:

Mark says, “Unfortunately, Rkkody had allowed someone to steal the URL and take the site offline.”

In Rkkody’s manuscript, in Chapter 5 on page 17 he describes driving down to Phoenix from Flagstaff to meet with Mark and Sarah and Oscar (Oscody) after having met with another former student named Pypody, who by the way is still alive and I’ve been in touch with.

Rkkody writes, “During the drive down I got a call from Holly who was running the Internet site where Heaven’s Gate was hosted. Apparently, someone had re-directed the domain name to a non-existing address effectively confiscating our web site.”

So how can Mark blame Rkkody for allowing someone to “steal” the site? Even without Rkkody’s testimony through his book manuscript, what could he have done to cause the site to go down? He had no interest in the site going down. He didn’t build the site, the Class techs did. If I were a sleuth, to me Mark and Sarah did have interest in the site going down as they still had their address posted there and according to Rkkody’s manuscript still were stressing about it though most of the media had died down by this time. However, I don’t believe Mark and Sarah were behind the site going down either.

Why would Rkkody make this up. We have the letter from the Class to Rkkody that shows he was to be what amounts to be the primary on web site maintenance Rkkody reports that, “The group had about three different sites. Http:www.heavensgate.com, http:www.heavensgatetoo.com, and http:www.levelabovehuman.com and a site in Romania that was just being set up that we still do not have access to.”

Again, as we’ve now seen probably a dozen times, Mark exaggerates and makes statements of fact using inflammatory terms, like in this case, “steal” the site when there was nothing of the sort happening.

According to Rkkody’s manuscript, Holly and Chris said the site address was changed to a non working address so went dark and that there had been so much traffic that the server couldn’t handle it and they were installing another server to cover the load. Rkkody flew to Nashville and met with them personally over this.

After all it’s not like I haven’t seen this over and over and over. Like in the lawsuit Mark and Sarah claim I “stole” the audio tapes when they were gifted to me by Rkkody in 1997 and 1998 and then a bigger batch were gifted to me by Jhnody in 2021, which were gifted to Jhnody by Mark and Sarah over about a years time of sending him digitized versions. And the gifts from Rkkody were the digitized tapes he retrieved from Storage that DO and Crew wrote a letter to Mark and Sarah suggesting Rkkody and Oscody help with doing. So how in the world were they stolen by me. No one owned any of them. The Class left them as a gift to the world that Mark and Sarah were supposed to divide among those who were inclined to disseminate them to others. In a real sense they then stole them and used government to authenticate their theft by buying them off to get Consent Decrees. Mark and Sarah seem to care only about what the government says is right to do with the audios than what TI and DO and Crew intended.

As I’ve described before in this response to Mark’s interview but will repeat a number of times, the reason Rkkody had Mark and Sarah’s letters was because Mark and Sarah turned them over to Rkkody on March 27th morning before Rkkody and Oscody went to storage in San Diego. It’s just a sore point with me that Mark throws around that term. It seems like he’s trying to make Rkkody seem negligent and wants to make me look like a criminal because I accepted the gifts, which by the way I personally was in the Class to hear most of them and my voice and name can be heard in many of them to prove. It’s like trying to steal my family’s legacy.

Mark goes on to say here, “It was another case of Rkkody keeping the website away from the public through all of 1997, contrary to the instructions left by Do and the Class.”

This is pure misinformation. He may be putting this out on purpose, I don’t know but wouldn’t put it past him at this point given all the things he and his lawyers have done to Rkkody, Rkkody’s daughter, Crlody and now me and Cathy. Rkkody was front and center on all the tasks. When he called Chris and Holly on the morning of March 27th it was to change the address Mark and Sarah had called him about doing at about 3am that morning and that is when he found out that the site was down because of too much traffic to the site and that they were putting another server up to maintain the new traffic load.

Soon thereafter Rkkody put up one of the alternate sites to include Right to Know website that was purely packed with information that Rkkody had received directly from DO in addition to being sent the Book’s first edition and the website code and had retrieved the audio tapes from Storage and was duplicating the exit tapes to send to people. Rkkody was doing all anyone could imagine someone doing to take the bull by the horns of what DO and Class called the Dissemination Project while Mark and Sarah were cowering, afraid of the ramifications of people seeing their Postnet business address the Class had set up with them, with their agreement to put on the website (before they exited). They were the ones who were failing to provide TI and DO and Crews information to people, the opposite of what Rkkody was doing.

Then Mark says here: “It’s been alleged that the original website came back up in August 1997, but we’ve seen no indication of that.”

No indication of that, I guess means they weren’t checking or communicating with Rkkody much as according to Carlan (Crlody) who was working with Rkkody at that time, he recalls the heavensgate.com website coming back up around September of 1997, so Mark may be right in what he heard or didn’t actually remember. In either case that at the latest was September of 97 – 6 months after it went down and Mark admits that at some point he was managing Heavensgatetoo.com if I recall him saying, while Rkkody according to Carlan was managing Heavensgateto.com while heavensgate.com was down. So no one would have been missing out of seeing the Heaven’s gate website unless they stopped at not finding heavensgate.com up and running.

Niklas:

Mrcody’s letter mentions a Romanian internet service provider meant to function as a pre-paid online backup, should the main site be shut down or buckle under heavy traffic. The Class describes the ISP’s owner as an agreeable fellow – however, since he wasn’t quite aware of what manner of client he was dealing with, ‘We’re not sure what his response will be to this most recent event.’

35. Mark:

– He disappeared when the website crashed due to overuse, so we had to go to another server. We never heard from him or his organization So much for those payments.

35. Sawyer:

By the way, Rkkody received the bulk of the instructions related to the Romanian web site provider in two letters from DO and Crew by March 25, 1997.

Niklas:

To complicate matters further, TELAH Services – the business set up by the Group and transferred to Srfody and Mrcody – was still registered to Logan Lahson, known in the Class as Lggody. The state of Arizona would not allow for this to be changed; instead, the entity itself had to be renamed.

Sawyer:

I don’t know what documentation Mark and Sarah had that DO and Crew transferred Telah Services to them. If the really intended them to have it I would imagine they would have put it into motion before they left. I don’t know why Mark and Sarah had such a complication to moving their corporation to them. To date we have no documentation to support that the Group wanted that transfer to happen. Mark and Sarah have given me a whole lot of reasons to not trust they are acting on the up and up. Of course they never felt they had to prove anything to me. However now that they are suing me and Cathy and Carlan, what they have been saying and doing is under greater scrutiny

36. Mark:

– In May 1997, Srfody and I flew to Washington DC to speak with an IRS panel and get the appropriate changes to a 501(c)(3) organization done. It was an unusual board meeting of skeptical bureaucrats who later approved the new name: The Telah Foundation. Contrary to a rumor floated about this, no attorneys recommended these measures or were employed in the achievement thereof.

36. Sawyer:

I don’t believe much of anything Mark and Sarah say is true entirely as they have been operating using their own Minds verses TI and DO’s Minds for so long that they no longer seem to know the differences and don’t seem to remember certain things they did and why.

Like what were these IRS bureaucrats skeptical about, I wonder? Why did they have to fly to Washington DC to speak with an IRS panel? There are IRS people in every state. Why didn’t they just form a new non-profit corporation.

They said in #18 that “They turned the corporation over to us in May 1996; after that, we were asked to assist them with many things. We helped where we could, but safety for both parties was always in play.”

If The Class turned over the Telah Services corporation to Mark and Sarah why was it still registered to Logan Lahson (aka Lggody)?

DO and Crew did give them the task of dividing the contents of storage among those who wanted to disseminate their information. That didn’t require any legalities if they had gone to storage when they could have or told Rkkody and Oscody of the instructions before they went on March 26th.

I don’t know what they needed Telah Services for that the Classroom didn’t provide them with. In their letter from “Pursers” Mark and Sarah received on March 25, 1997 they wrote:

“We have only two bank accounts of possible interest to you – business accounts for Higher Source Contract Enterprises and TELAH Services.”

The same letter also said, “You can also use whatever is in the TELAH bank account, which we think is about $1430.”

So did The Class give them a way to access the TELAH bank account? Maybe whatever Mark and Sarah received in the so called, “transfer” of TELAH Services to Mark and Sarah would have been enough to access that bank account but then it seems they wanted to use Telah Services for more. My guess is that there were certain legal documents they wouldn’t have that they wanted to use to be able to prove they had the right to transfer copyrights the Group had in the name of TOA or Total Overcomers Anonymous or Total Overcomers Anonymous Monastery or Oliver Odinwood (who initially held the copyright for the paintings he painted that were listed as illustrations for The Meeting Screenplay and for his name also being on the copyright for the script for The Meeting itself without proof that they were TELAH Services. So perhaps that’s why they created sought a name change only to Telah Foundation and then proceeded to copyright 486 audios, Video tapes and The Book and certain pictures like the Away Team patch, the website Heaven’s Gate phrase and it’s use on patches, etc.

Cathy and I and Carlan in our defense and counter-suit against Mark and Sarah’s Telah Foundation and corporation they formed as “The Evolutionary Level Above Human, Inc.” they used to sue us, plan to demand their documentation in the upcoming Discovery part of the lawsuit (that Mark and Sarah had their lawyers tell the court they thought could be skipped).

Niklas:

Another rumor I came across is that Srfody had spoken to a fellow former student and been very upset, exclaiming, ‘How could they do this to us?’

37. Mark:

– No, Srfody stated nothing of the kind. She never implied that we were ‘wronged’ by the Group in any way. We’d been in training for ten months, between May 1996 to March 1997, to assume responsibility for tasks we were – and still are – honored to carry out. Those same former members have also alleged that we gave up on said tasks for a brief time; that is equally false. All the things our detractors indicate we’ve said or done could fill a book. They seem to take comfort in clinging tightly to their delusions. And once that pattern is set, they’d feel empty if any of it were to be explained to everyone’s satisfaction.

37. Sawyer:

I happen to probably be the source of said “rumor” of what Sarah (Srfody) said. It’s not something I made up. It came from Gnrody who was friends with Sarah. Gnrody and Rkkody had a relationship of some sort when Rkkody was outside the Classroom. Gnrody had a house in the Denver area. I don’t recall when they became room mates but I do know her from before I left the Class in 1994. I first met her in November of 1993 when DO had Jwnody and I set up and speak at a public meeting in Denver, in the Arapaho area. We stayed at Gnrody’s house up in Bloomfield, CO, where Rkkody had been living as well. That’s when Rkkody wanted to rejoin the Class again if he had the chance and when we all started the meetings in January of 1994, and on DO’s invitation he did rejoin us. He became one of the videographers of the group then.

Anyway, when Rkkody re-joined, Gnrody also joined us at DO’s invitation. It was a huge adjustment for anyone who had never been in the Class or even for someone who had once been in the Class but was out for years. We were a very tight knit crew by 1993. We had lots of procedures to follow and we loved the procedures but for a new comer to the Class, there was a great deal to come up to speed with to be able to become a working crew member. If someone wasn’t very flexible yet unable to adjust to the many procedures, they would become an interference. I don’t know why Gnrody didn’t stay very long. However, after I left I was in touch with her via email and on the phone a time or two. I became aware of the rift that had formed between Rkkody and Mark and Sarah. I have an email from Gnrody that calls out Mark for harassing her and Rkkody because Rkkody was doing what he felt to do with the audio tapes he retrieved from Storage. I was aware of this rift at the time but loosely as I wasn’t really engaged with the Class Info and what had occurred after their exit in any way until the early 2000’s but had contact with most long term former students.

I remember being on a telephone call with Gnrody after the Class left their human vehicles in 1997, when she out of the blue felt to tell me what Sarah had said to her that as best I can recall was, “how could they do this to us”, speaking about the Group’s exit and leaving the Postnet address they had agreed to monitor for the Group on the Heavens Gate website.

As we can see in this interview, Mark says many things that are phony, even outright deceit so his denial of what Gnrody said is unfortunately to be expected.

I’m not saying that if Sarah had said that, she is some terrible person. What makes for a terrible person is hiding things she did and appearing to be squeaky clean, which DO even can be heard addressing in audio tape 331.

Plus we have Rkkody’s manuscript that he had no reason to conjure up lies within. But it reveals how Mark and Sarah avoided like the plague doing any of the tasks their Letters from DO gave them, unless they could do things exactly their way, which they only arrived at after the main media had passed in 1997.

Someone who had absorbed Next Level behaviors and ways would be quick to admit their shortcomings. Rkkody demonstrated this big time in his manuscript. Sure humans will judge us but to us, we know that our only judge is DO and Ti and taking responsibility for our own less than Next Level behaviors and ways is part of being an active student of Next Level ways to embrace.

I trust Gnrody’s memory way more than Mark and Sarah’s. They put on the appearance of never having said or done anything wrong. Look at this interview where they blame DO for being influenced to send them out of the Class because of rumors from Classmates. Mark really demonstrates well that he hasn’t overcome his trust in his own mind over his Older Members. He has been caught in so many partial or total lies now he doesn’t seem to even know what is or isn’t actually true in many cases. One way it appears Mark shrewdly sows seeds of misinformation can be found in this statement, “She never implied that we were ‘wronged’ by the Group in any way.” Maybe she didn’t but he has. For instance at the meeting Cathy and I attended with Mark and Sarah and their lawyer, I asked them if they were in contact with Rio (Neody) and I think Mark said first, “No” and Sarah immediately chimed in with, “yes”. One of them was outright lying.

Niklas:

There are also claims that Mrcody believed himself in line to ‘make millions’ from their proprietorship of The Telah Foundation.

38. Mark:

– No, what I actually said was that a foolish lawyer had suggested that we could make a million – but we thought it would do nothing but cost us time and money. Funny how our detractors keep omitting the latter part. Their bitterness and hatred are not of the Next Level and never will be. We still nurture the hope that they will one day find it in their hearts to sincerely embrace kindness and understanding instead of this endless broken record of spiteful misconceptions. We believe it is tearing them apart and distancing them from the Next Level.

38. Sawyer:

In Rkkody’s manuscript he addresses the origin of this statement about the “million,” as he remembers it, as a first hand witness. In this quote TOM, (a pseudonym for the name of the lawyer Mark was working with that Rkkody said he first started a relationship with, to try to retrieve the contents of Storage that San Diego County had confiscated from Storage (MRC is short for Mrcody today known as Mark)):

“When we met at the Mexican restaurant only a week earlier MRC was saying that TOM wanted to form some kind of entity to be able to get all the rights to Heaven’s Gate stuff including copyrights on all the web pages and their logo’s etc. He said there can be 10’s of millions at stake.”

Even if Rkkody heard it differently than Mark, they both agree that the word “million” was used.

Sad how Mark projects his shortcomings on others as if there are not dozens of direct examples of their very poor behavior.

I didn’t know the last part until this interview because Mark is always so closed lip about most everything. I don’t care who is telling the truth. I just want to hear it. I guess Mark considers me one of his so called “detractors” yet he is the one who has been threatening me and now suing me for purely egotistical reasons that stifle TI and DO’s information getting to the public and has been saying things that are at times the opposite of what TI and DO clearly said. Since they do support the HeavensGate.com website, I feel it’s my task to be a check for them whether they want or value it or not because I don’t want someone to hear something from them and think that was from TI and DO’s Mind when they say so much that hardly is.

I don’t have bitterness or hatred feelings towards them. I’m glad they were awake enough that they got some tasks from DO and Crew before they left. I was very asleep in some ways during that time that they fault me for. Of course bitterness and hatred is not of the Next Level but their actions really speak for themselves in how they have showed those very same traits towards me as even shown in this interview that I have tried to address. Kindness and understanding has it’s value of course but when it comes to fulfilling the tasks DO gave all believers, new and old to share Their information with others, that is the kindest and most understanding thing we can do for another. And if there are misconceptions show us the evidence of such instead of being so darn general and hiding what they say they have to prove they were the only ones given the task to disseminate TI and DO’s information. I don’t care if they think they are the only ones to do that task. I know that I must share TI and DO’s information with anyone that shows some sign of wanting it. Rkkody, Crlody (Carlan) and Jhnody and others feel exactly the same way. Cathy who is a new believer feels exactly the same way. We can’t help but want to share the information but they don’t want us to. Doing all this so called infighting is something I dislike doing. I don’t want to talk about Mark and Sarah again but they are forcing it public by their direct actions trying to stop Cathy and I and Crlody (Carlan) and Jhnody and other new believers from that sharing. Sure we can talk about TI and DO from our knowledge of what’s posted in their book and website but why does it have to stop there and isn’t it better to have their exact words that even provide a more in depth understanding of what TI and DO were all about. They even stated that desire in one of the Letters to Mark and Sarah (MRC/SRF) and to Rkkody as well.

Mark’s opinion about who is distancing themselves from the Next Level is meaningless to me. He and Sarah at many times act like they can speak for TI and DO and these “emperors” have no clothes on in that regard.

Without drudging up the past, they are literally suing me for sharing TI and DO’s information with people freely, while they keep the tapes under lock and key almost entirely. Why don’t they want TI and DO who they say they honor, to have their voices heard? They insist that only they can share it and out of the other sides of their mouths suppress Their voices for 25 years. They persecuted Rkkody, then Crlody (Carlan) and then me for defying their false authority over TI and DO’s legacy. And now they even are going after new believer, Cathy with even totally easy to prove false accusations. Regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit they are, because of their relentless over lording requiring the whole truth to come out so it will probably become the source of a very detailed documentary.

The Mark and Sarah dynasty is falling again and this interview seems to be a meager attempt to preserve it’s deceitful ways they have no justification from TI and DO for.

People who hear this story to include their lawsuit they have filed, often think it is about money but I don’t think it is. It’s about their own sense of having received tasks from DO, understandably, but that they have mutated into additional tasks they had the option to exercise but would have had far less problems and wouldn’t have had to become overlords of the information deciding who can or can not have access to it and when and how much if at all. It seems evident from things they have said and/or written and/or had written on their behalf by lawyers that they want to be seen as the only Representatives of TI and DO and Crews Information they left behind but don’t want to be under fire for supporting it because of fearing some people might kill themselves because of the information. I can understand having to deal with that concern as I too have dealt with that concern but realized there were ways to legitimately talk about that while explaining and showing people how DO and Crew actually had a Position Against the S word of losing one’s vehicles life by their own hand. What is ironic about this position is that though they have expressed fear that innocent lives could be harmed by the information, they still have performed the task of providing the Heavensgate.com website that has lots of direct talk about the action they were about to take and why, though also includes talk of how exiting by one’s own hand for humans is useless because we humans all need our human vehicles to learn our many lessons through. The human kingdom was designed as the location where Spirits and Souls could grow by even outgrowing the human condition. That is a huge task and every human can benefit by applying the many lesson steps the Class provided their Students, but that to appeal to the Next Level means to do so to be of service to the most current Representatives from the Next Level who used vehicles they called TI and DO.

Here is part of the evidence of Mark and Sarah’s fears and how they felt the information should remain “confidential”:

This is a segment of the verbiage Mark and Sarah and/or Lawyers included in the Legal Agreement between The TELAH Foundation and Stephen *** A.K.A. Sawyer and Cathy *** and to provide a settlement of the Cease and Desist of 11/17/2021. Cathy and I received this as part of a long document that included many very dictatorial conditions upon which if we complied we could share some of the information with some people in some ways and would be punished if we broke the agreement. We didn’t even come close to signing it but what came from receiving it that Cathy was the broker of getting them to draft was seeing how far astray they have fallen from what TI and DO and Crews intentions were for what they called the “Dissemination Project”. Here is that one segment:

“8. CONFIDENTIAL NATURE OF MATERIAL. Telah and King are the protectors and guardians of the Material to prevent it from being misinterpreted or misused causing harm to innocent parties. Because of the sensitive nature of Material Telah and King have exercised to the best of their abilities all efforts to keep the material restricted and confidential. Recipients agree to continue keeping the Material confidential and to exercise their best efforts to prevent access to parts of said Material not agreed nor authorized by Telah and King and to exercise best efforts to prevent potentially damaging Material to be released to the public.”

Niklas:

In early May 1997, a former member called Jstody traveled to Mexico to procure phenobarbital for himself and Rkkody. Before springing into action, they recorded exit statements of their own and then sent them by post to family members and media outlets. If I’ve understood Jstody’s video correctly, he was not expecting an immediate reunion with the Away Team – which included Slvody, his wife from before the Class – but rather to be set up for incarnation into a future Classroom where he’d get another chance to graduate.

39. Mark:

– To exit was his choice; we knew nothing of what they were doing. But he’s not too far off with his exit statement – it’s called being ‘put on ice’. That is an option.

Niklas:

That reminds me of Srrody’s exit video, in which he directly addresses former Classmates. He urges them to rely on personal experience rather than media portrayals in how they should relate to the graduation event.

39. Sawyer:

I think what Mark means by saying, “That is an option” is that DO has said some may be “saved” – “put on ice”. DO said “ice” wasn’t meant to be literal. DO was speaking of the Soul. But this is one of many examples of in my opinion Mark not saying enough on the subject. It’s not exactly our option to take. It’s the Next Level’s judgment of what to do with our Soul when we leave these vehicles regardless of how and when and why we leave these vehicles.

According to Rkkody he spoke somewhat openly around Mark and Sarah and Oscody and Pypody and perhaps Rio (Neody) about his wanting to exit as the Group did. He even said about the subject, with specific reference to Sarah (Srf) that she seemed “very nervous” with the entire idea.

Here is what Rkkody says in his manuscript written about that time in March/April 1997:

“I felt like it is only a matter of time before I will be leaving my vehicle and trying to catch up with the other, yet I could tell that none of the ex-classmates I had been working with was thinking like that at all. It was a subject that made SRF very nervous and when I mentioned it to PYP his body language spoke loud and clear. In fact, there was only one person I ran into who was actually preparing for the time he could exit his vehicle. That was JSTODY. We both felt at the time that there was still things the Next Level might be able to take advantage of while we were still here and we did not want to leave without being sure that it was appropriate.”

Mark speaks of “them” which I’m pretty sure has to be Rkk and Jst and that “we” must refer to he and Sarah. Again, I know I could be wrong about this, but I don’t believe Mark, saying about them: “… we knew nothing of what they were doing”. It seems Rkkody thought they did know what Rkkody was thinking about self exiting. I don’t know if Mark was being literal by saying “we knew nothing of what they were DOING so to get out of admitting knowing what he/they were thinking.

Plus did he not watch the 60 Minutes broadcast of Sunday, March 30th, Easter Sunday that Jstody, his daughter Kelly and I did together with Leslie Stahl? In the segments, I recall Jstody saying he felt like he wanted to leave, how he missed the bus. From Rkkody’s manuscript days after Jstody and I were on that broadcast he was talking about exiting with Rkkody and even planning how and when.

re: what Mark says about Srrody, there is no evidence I can see that he was addressing “former classmates” at all. Here is his statement from the exit tape he and others made:

SRRODY: “But maybe on a more personal note, there’s a number of you out there that have probably been in contact with me personally, and a number of the classmates that you’ll be seeing on this tape. And, remember how you felt when we were there? Remember what it was like to work with us, and to be with us and you’d probably be better off trusting that rather than whatever information you run across on the TV. I’m sure there’s going to be some stuff to come out about this that can’t get the perspective that you had, so trust your own feeling rather than what you hear from someone else. That would be my primary advice to you.”

Srr said, “…have probably been in contact with me personally, and a number of the classmates that you’ll be seeing on this tape”

Former Classmates haven’t “probably been in contact with [him] personally, they definitely had contact with him, as I did over years. Plus do former classmates have to be reminded what “it was like to work with [them] and trusting that rather than whatever information [they’d] run across on the TV? I know what I experienced in the Classroom and with whom, though yes I can forget certain things but not things like what I felt about certain classmates. I for one know well that the media knows next to nothing about what really happened there. I’m not alone in that. I believe Srrody was talking to some individuals who he and other classmates had been working with at their company Higher Source and in other Out of Craft tasks (jobs in the world) and perhaps in other capacities.

I’m providing the text so that what Mark says, for those who read his article don’t assume he is expressing things that were actually said. It seems his memory on many things has been skewed. I know this can and does happen to all of us, so in this case it’s good for me to be a check on this, the same things I would like from others if I quote TI and DO and Crew and get it wrong as it appears has happened in this case with him re: what Srrody said.

Also, re: “being ‘put on ice’,” yes DO said this but he also said that wasn’t literal ice. I think adding these words is important so people don’t misunderstand His use of terms/phrases. TI and DO talked about this kind of thing in an audio tape re: leaving written things behind for humans to read, to clarify our terminology.

To me it’s sloppy to not say more and to me Mark and Sarah have done this many times over the years. I’m accused of saying too much and I’m sure at times I do, but DO and Class members were on the wordy side when it came to speaking to the public so why not err in giving them more details and examples rather than less.

But also there are no guarantees and being put on ice, or “saved” from the recycling, leaving the planet with DO, in his keeping and even so if one goes against DO’s wishes they will still be inclined to be against his wishes after they exit the current vehicle. With some overcoming of human behaviors and ways, when what we do effects only us it’s not as serious as causing more difficultly for others. I think this applies a lot more when we lead people astray with mis or disinformation and literally go against DO. Then we may be putting huge distance between us and DO, so much so that we could lose recognizing him as our Older Member. Mark and Sarah appear to be treading on that kind of thin ice. Mark shows it in his responses in this article by blaming classmates passing on rumors to DO that somehow resulted in DO sending him and Sarah out of the Class because of. For Mark to say this shows lack of looking to DO as his Older Member, treating him the way a human might treat an employer as fallible. It’s not that DO can’t make mistakes but DO was not a human mind in a human vehicle. He is a Older Member Next Level Above Human Mind using a human vehicle he made obedient to his Next Level Mind. Thus he treated everything he thought, said and did very, very carefully and was constantly checking with his connection to TI, his Older Member on how to think, speak and act, not trusting he could get it right. So Mark’s being sent out of the Class was TI sending Mark out of the Class, as well as DO doing so. If Mark sees this he’s not expressing it and perhaps he should when/if he becomes aware of this as he may not be aware that his words spell this thinking out.

40. Mark:

– The option was given to all former students within a short window of time; only a few took advantage of it. The two of us had our tasks to do and feel confident we’ll be taken care of. But we don’t know exactly what the future holds. Since the next opportunity may be a long way off, it is possible that we will also be put on ice. Most likely, many Classmates are in the same position.

40. Sawyer:

If Mark and Sarah felt the call to exit the way they did, then they could have performed the short term tasks and passed on the tasks that could exist for a long time, to someone else. I’m not trying to say DO thought they were ready to leave as for some dropouts they could have needed the lessons they would get by staying in their human vehicles.

If they had felt to leave like occurred to Rkkody and Jstody and later Oscody, they could have stayed around to perform the essential tasks. They could have gone to Storage and retrieved it’s contents and the cars that were parked at the San Diego airport and regarding the “items of value…” in storage, namely the 1061 (according to Mark) audio meeting tapes, “that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information” which is the wording in the letter to Mark and Sarah from DO and Crew.

Rkkody was a great example of performing tasks he was given and then leaving, which it seems to me he failed at his first attempt because DO and Crew wanted him to do more for them by staying longer and then they let him leave.

In Rkkody’s manuscript he talks about how he and Oscody felt to exit but didn’t want to exit too soon, thinking about whether DO might have them do certain tasks before they left. DO in his letter to Rkkody also extended the same option to him as he did to MRC/SRF and JHN, to choose from all the options.

For Rkkody the task he was given by DO involved helping Mark and Sarah with sending the letter to SAM (since it had Rkkody’s name on it, with Mark and Sarah’s), posting certain documents on the web sites, helping Mark and Sarah, if asked to retrieve the contents of Storage, participate in the “Dissemination Project” they wanted all to do, even people not named in the letters. (See Jwnody’s document, Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure).

Oscody was given at least one task to register the book with the Library of Congress. (I don’t know how much he participated in that before Mark and Sarah took over that task but he laid down his human vehicle right around the year 2000 if I recall.

I didn’t get a Letter because I think, on the two or more occasions where DO was seeking to learn about where my head was at, I didn’t seek service but wanted to do what I was doing with raising my daughter (soon to born in July of 1997).

However, despite how Mark portrays me as being engulfed in humanness, I mustered the strength and conviction to put myself in the spot light of the media with my face to Stand Up for TI and DO. Some may think I was wanting that attention but I was actually quite afraid at first because I didn’t want reporters at my doorstep in Carmel, NY where I lived at the time. But I felt I needed to tell what I knew since I knew I knew a great deal from 19 years with TI and DO. I always had completely positive things to say about TI and DO. I called Time and Newsweek magazines with my story from a phone booth and met them at a restaurant individually to give them each an interview. Then Jstody called me and invited me to go on 60 Minutes with him which I knew I had to accept and did a bunch of media with him in the NYC area before and after Easter Sunday of 1997. I showed my face all along for years because I wanted people to know who was talking. Sometimes that wasn’t a positive out among the public but by in large it wasn’t more of a negative than I could handle.

I didn’t feel to exit and had no specific tasks nor a letter from DO and Crew. I was in touch with Rkkody, Mrcody and Srfody and many other former Classmates. Mark/Sarah sent me a case or two of the Heaven’s Gate Books they brought to print/publication which was also part of their task to do with maintaining the website.

However, there is no evidence at all that DO wanted them to convert the few tasks into mega tasks, expanding their instructions to include preserving the audios with water marks for some crazy reason. (I have no problem with their doing that and would share the tapes they make if that would make them happy but that won’t make them happy.)

Had Mark and Sarah acted quickly they would have never needed to engage with lawyers to get the materials back from San Diego County. DO expressed that he didn’t even want them to try to get the things that were in the mansion, yet they did, thinking (as I saw reported) that to auction them off would be dishonoring the memory of the Classmates. I believe the court document or a reported quoted Mark said was something like he wished to preserve their memory “with dignity” and selling their personal affects threatened that he/they thought. Perhaps that was misquoting Mark but it sounds like something Mark would say.

What Mark appears to be missing here is that the “next opportunity” isn’t far off, it’s now, not just for him but for everyone. When he tells people there is “nothing to do” but study the information to be ready for DO’s return in some thousands of years when they will reincarnate then, he is misleading people to treat the current opportunity lightly. It seems he’s so afraid that someone might kill themselves or something, though there is no evidence of anyone doing that because of Heaven’s Gate for over 20+ years and no doubt we would have heard about it.

After all there is a reason DO and Crew used the headline to a document posted on their website up front entitled, “Our Position Against Suicide”. They were against human suicide and what I might call Soul suicide. They knew we each needed our human vehicles to learn the lessons we needed to learn that could only be learned while in a human vehicle. DO even said that some who laid down their vehicles lives with him would need to return to a human condition to finish their overcoming of humanness. Who knows when that would occur. However, there was still a great value to being willing to exit in any way the Next Level through their Older Members whom we as any student recognizes to be DO and Ti.

DO never closed the “Gate” but he was very clear that there were Three Types of people who would survive the recycling, speaking of Souls in vehicles.

1) those who were with him graduating to their next best station and being rewarded with significant Next Level tasks.

2) People who recognized DO as their Older Member but had weaknesses

3) Those who might not even have heard about TI and DO but were separating from the world in their own ways.

We need our human vehicles to learn our lessons to grow closer to Next Level graduation to whatever is our next best step by the Next Level’s determination of our efforts.

Niklas:

On May 6, 1997, Jstody and Rkkody donned the Away Team uniforms, ingested large quantities of phenobarbital, and pulled plastic bags over their heads. Meanwhile, CNN and CBS News had received the farewell tapes and notified authorities. Investigators contacted Rkkody’s daughter, who had just opened an envelope containing a tape of her own. She told police that her father was likely somewhere in San Diego, close to the Group’s compound. After checking motels in the vicinity, law enforcement discovered that the two men had booked room 222 of the Holiday Inn Express in Encinitas, a community adjacent to Rancho Santa Fe. When the first responders arrived, Jstody had already died. Rkkody was in critical condition; he had instinctively torn off the plastic bag before suffocating. Unlike the Class, he drank no vodka to boost the medication, so the dosage proved insufficient to kill him. Rkkody woke up chained to a hospital bed. A few months later, in February 1998, he drove out into the Arizona desert. This time he succeeded.

41. Mark:

– We finally found out that Rkkody had gotten the domain back and given it to his daughter before he died. It was being held in Mexico. We paid a lawyer to take them to court and after a fight, we got it back. The daughter in question has still not complied with the other terms of that settlement, and she should. The website went back up immediately in early 1998. Until then, we’d been using the Group’s other domains, such as heavensgatetoo.com.

41. Sawyer:

I don’t know when Rkkody got back the website from it’s being hacked. Crlody who worked with Rkkody and was with Rkkody then said he thought it was September of 1997 when they got the Heavensgate.com website back up.

What I do know is that DO and Crew prepared well for this event of their exit to include sending the website to Rkkody, and Jhnody, Mark and Sarah and as I understand it to Oscody and Chris and Holly as site hosts and to a Romanian ISP who I don’t know ever put it up. Rkkody was given the lead task in making changes to the website and also received instructions directly from DO on some documents to post on it in addition to his Right to Know website DO had him set up a PO Box for where DO sent Rkkody a Fed X with paperwork for the Truck.

By the time Rkkody left, he had been so harassed by Mark and Sarah that he was like I am now, suspicious of everything Mark and Sarah say and do, with a lot of evidence that shows such suspicions are justified. I have a letter from Rkkody’s daughter from 1997 that tells of how Mark and Sarah were threatening her with the loss of her house if she didn’t give the website back to them. That reminds me of how Mark threatened me and those who are friends on my Facebook page sawyer.heavensgate with $100’s of thousands of dollars of fines for using or transcribing or copying or distributing the audio tapes I had just received from Jhnody who received them from Mark and Sarah.

Niklas:

The Heaven’s Gate anthology, How and When “Heaven’s Gate” May Be Entered, was treated to a posthumous release by Wild Flower Press on March 1, 1998. My impression is that this was not a hugely lucrative venture.

42. Mark:

– We had to pay cash to get the final version printed; it cost us a lot of money. The publisher did his job but became disillusioned when no one wanted to buy the book. Ultimately, before he threw them all away, we got him to ship the remaining copies to us. We’ve been selling them one by one – at the mere cost of our production expenses – over the past two decades.

42. Sawyer:

Mark fails to say that he and Sarah received at least $10,000.00 directly from the Group upon their exit and/or may have retrieved more from unpaid accounts receivable they were given to be the recipients of, which was all to help them and others be able to perform the Dissemination Project. Instead they blew it on lawyers, though I don’t take away from them that they have paid for the heavensgate.com website to be up and running all these years. However when they clearly weren’t doing much at all of the dissemination project I offered to take over the website because others who believed in TI and DO AND were doing the largest portion of the Dissemination Project. Rkkody even bridged the gap of the tasks Mark and Sarah were hoped to perform by doing things himself. Rkkody also received $10,000.00 and so did Oscody as I understand it from Crlody who worked directly with Rkkody in 1997.

If Mark and Sarah had read their Letters from DO and Crew on March 25 when they received them and then compared notes with what it said in the Letters to Rkkody and others they would have stopped Rkkody and Oscody from going to the mansion so fast on March 26th without taking with them those instructions that included the means of retrieving the cars from the airport and the truck from one storage location and the contents of two storage lockers where the tapes were.

Niklas:

After first suing the County of San Diego Property Group in April 1997, Mrcody and Srfody made it into court by the end of 1998.

43. Mark:

– It took the designated Special Master two years to realize he wasn’t going to shake us. Finally, after about $325,000 in total costs, we got a settlement of all the Group’s intellectual property. Not only did we receive the videotapes and the balance of audio recordings, writings, and patches, but we got all the important items from the storage locker and the house. That’s how we acquired items even Do never expected us to get. Our settlement with San Diego County included all the Group’s financial records, logs, and items from the house, as well as Do’s bed and nightstands along with all of his books. We purchased the camera they filmed everything on, and all the tapes associated with it. We still use that camera. Through the auction, the public got the cars, clothes, kitchen items, and laundry goods. They got the bunk beds because we did not want them. Anyone claiming to have original patches, purple shrouds, or other items of that exit is mistaken. Remember, San Diego County incinerated the mattresses, bedding, shrouds, shoes, clothing, and anything else that touched their bodies. The county even provided us with the police case files – perhaps by mistake? – so we got their correspondence with the families and the real stories of what they thought of us.

43. Sawyer:

If Mark and Sarah had organized and spoke to Rkkody and Oscody and perhaps Neody (Rio) starting even on March 25th knowing DO’s hopes for their performing a variety of tasks, they would have retrieved all the cars, the truck and all the contents of two storage rooms. Because of their failure they did seem to have had to hire lawyers to sue San Diego County to then get at least the contents of the two Storage Rooms and/or all the other items.

DO said in the letters and in the letter Mark and Sarah received to send to SAM, the owner of the Rio Rancho Santa Fe house they lived in to not seek to have the items in the mansion yet Mark and Sarah sought to have it all. Mark even admits here that DO didn’t expect them to get certain items. DO also knew the house may be made into a shrine.

Yes, they got a settlement but that was only because Judge Lisa Guy Schall didn’t want to prolong the families getting some funds to resolve the estates of the Classmembers. She could have held out because her first ruling was that Mark and Sarah didn’t show her (the court) anything that showed the Group intended them to be more than “distributors” of the Intellectual property. In fact if they try to sell any of what they received they could be prosecuted in breaking that decision, which may have something to do with their trying to stop anyone else from selling certain items with the Groups artwork, etc.

Note they only got the “balance of audio recordings”. Rkkody retrieved with Oscody 486 audio tapes and split them with Oscody. Then Rkkody with help from Crlody at some point, copied them and digitized them and sent them to people including me. I’m being sued by Mark and Sarah for playing for free some audio tapes of TI and DO on my YouTube channel: 3spm and Cathy, my partner is also included in the lawsuit as well as Crlody even though they don’t have a consent decree that names each of the audio tapes that we were playing as among the 1061 audio tapes.

Rkkody while he was in the Classroom in 1994 had his own camera and DO had him travel with groups who were putting on meetings and film whatever he felt to. I believe Rkkody left that film with his daughter. It includes film of the Chicago meeting, an interview in a Portland Radio Station and from the Missoula, Montana meeting, all of which include me in. I believe he had other footage when he was assigned by DO to switch groups then. My understanding is that Neody (Rio) also had a camera then. I don’t know what footage Rio has. So I consider that part of the footage of the Class since some of the graduates were in the footage Rkkody and presumably Neody took.

As far as Mark having also bought from San Diego County in the Settlement, “all the tapes associated with it [the camera]” why is it that only the media get to see those tapes? Like the tape of the Classes visit to Gold Beach, OR. If that was among the “items of value” in the Storage Room that they said Mark and Sarah could divided among those inclined to disseminate their information, who has Mark and Sarah given them to. I’m not saying I want the originals but Crlody and I and now Cathy have been among some of the biggest disseminators of Their information, so give us copies of those tapes or post them somewhere so anyone could have them instead of hording them thinking that they are meant to be the only ones to see them unless they give them to someone else to see.

I’m glad Mark and Sarah received, “real stories of what they thought of us” but if by saying “real” he is implying that what I have said about them from my personal experience with them and from being in the Class when they were sent out of the Class isn’t real, then once again they are puffing themselves up which they don’t need to do as there is no embarrassment in revealing the facts of their leaving the Class rather than make stuff up as they have been doing or just ignoring those facts. Also by saying that they are sort of prodding me to compile all the statements from DO in the audio tapes to show what all DO said over the years in his attempted communication with them.

I have held back from doing that for years. I didn’t hardly talk about the circumstances of their being sent out of the Class for years until they gave an interview with Gizmodo and made up a totally fabricated story when asked. That was misinformation from my recollection as a first hand witness that I can prove being present during and can prove DO talked about quite a bit in audio tapes made after they left.

I don’t know if Mark knows if some clothing and/or shoes that was in travel bags or in dresser draws that wasn’t incinerated. It’s also possible they had a shroud for Neody (Rio) but didn’t need to use it since Rio left about 2 weeks before they exited.

Niklas:

Do you mean the county’s correspondence with the families?

44. Mark:

– Yes. The county employees were very frank about what they thought of us. We were considered ‘the enemy’, and they indicated that we’d stopped the auction of goods meant to pay for the family members’ funerals. As if we owed them that. When we put a stop to this in court, their anger level increased and they got the families even more riled up. Once we had received what was due to us, as mandated by a court of law, they blamed us for the low turnout at their auction and the meager amount of dollars it brought in. They had illegally secured items from the storage, and we had to get it all back. Which we did, to great cost out of our own pocket. We have not received any payments other than the production cost of the book. The total expenses of all court cases, production costs, legal issues, etc is now over $500,000. But we had to do what was right and necessary to make the Next Level information available to the world.

44. Sawyer:

Wow, yet another of many spins. In fact I have Judge Lisa Guy Schall’s two decisions In the first decision, she found no evidence that Mark and Sarah had any legal right to any of the Groups property. Mark and Sarah were fined about $4000.00 for filing a “frivolous lawsuit” that may not have included paying for San Diego’s lawyer expenses.

I remind that had they acted quickly, even as quickly as Rkkody and Oscody acted and/or had they informed Rkkody and Oscody of the Groups intention of their Letters instructing them and Rkkody and Oscody’s and others retrieving all the cars, the truck and all the contents of two storage rooms, then they would have had no legal expenses at all. However since they failed at acting quickly and caused delays of even Rkkody and Oscody even knowing about the Storage Rooms, when the locks got put on the two storage rooms by San Diego county around March 28th or so, then it became necessary to enlist lawyers to try to get at least the intellectual property found in one of the storage rooms.

Mark says certain items were “due to them,” and yes, DO did hope they would retrieve items in one or two storage rooms, which like I just said, they failed to do. But DO didn’t expect them to get anything from the Mansion. He and His crew said as much in at least two Letters so Mark and Sarah were again off track by including trying to get all the possessions the group had.

Mark is saying that what was “due to us, as mandated by a court of law”, as if that court was an authority over who got that material and as if that court gave them the authority to then lord over the materials and covet the 1061 audio tapes and prosecute those who denied they (Mark and Sarah) were following what DO and TI hoped they would do in the “dissemination project”.

They didn’t “put a stop to this in court,” they simply threatened to drag on the proceeding for more and more time and families of the deceased should have received some of those items to retrieve burial costs. The Class didn’t think Mark and Sarah should have anything but the things in the one or two storage rooms, to divide among those who were inclined to disseminate their information and/or to sell for funds to support the dissemination project and that Mark and Sarah have all but hidden away.

Mark says, speaking of the county that “they had illegally secured items from the storage and we had to get it all back” yet it was Mark and Sarah that didn’t lift a finger to get those items out of storage when they had the time to do so, which they had plenty of time, (days) to do before San Diego found the storage rooms and put their own locks on the doors. They seem to take no responsibility for what happened when it was all their responsibility

Then Mark says, they “had to do what was right and necessary to make the Next Level information available to the world.” Isn’t that ironic in a very sad kind of way that they did just the opposite. The website and the Heaven’s Gate Book posted on the website was already available to the world through Rkkody and anyone else who was sharing it. They ended up with one of those three near duplicate web sites. Others like Rkkody and Jhnody and Flxody/Ablody and perhaps others received the Beyond Human Video Tape series and since I was sent them by Mark and Sarah (before they disagreed with how I chose to disseminate the information) and that Carlan was providing to people that Rkkody had been sending out to me and others all along. Those tapes were uploaded to a YouTube channel called Heavensgatedatabase.

So the only items of value that was possible of being provided by them they didn’t provide, namely the 1061 audio meeting tapes. Carlan and myself were doing most of that provision to people and they were dead set against our doing so but as Mark told Cathy and I, they “let it slide” which they also knew that Carlan had been posting the audios Rkkody retrieved from storage on a site called 4shared.com for free download since 2009 or so. They knew about that site I’m sure but “let is slide” even though they had a copyright on those tapes we think but don’t know for sure since they never told anyone what they had copyrighted. (By the way their copyrights may have been obtained illegally which we will fight out in court).

So they provided next to nothing to the world, except for the web site and some video’s, some of the same info others were circulating. Yes, they did have to go to court to retrieve the items of value in storage but that was because of their failure, theirs and no one elses.

Plus, what Mark is also not telling, is that they threatened to appeal Judge Lisa Guy Schall decision to not award them with anything and what the judge then said in her next opinion was that for the benefit of all involved, keeping mind of many bereaved families she decided to seek a settlement. So the county got a number of the groups cars left for former students to use, sell or give away but to use any proceeds for the dissemination project. Rkkody wrote about how Mark and Sarah were listening to a lawyer re: giving the truck to a nursing home as a show to the judge that they were good people. However, DO did suggest giving it to a nursing home but Rkkody wanted to sell it and use the funds to disseminate the information, as DO spoke about as a type of priority. Instead the vehicles were used to in a sense bribe the Judge to give them some of the possessions of the Group. The Judge also got about $2000.00 from Mark and Sarah as well and they agreed not to sell any of the items.

So they got a Consent Decree to possess the contents of storage that contained the balance of audio tapes the group had since Rkkody had retrieved some 486 before then and other of the storage content. Then they used that decree to get another Consent Decree to win against Kathy (Rkkody’s daughter) to get the Heavensgate.com website because Rkkody left it to Kathy because he was choosing to exit his vehicle and he no longer trusted Mark and Sarah would do what DO and Crew wished for it. Mark and Sarah won because Kathy had no money to fight against lawyers and the previous consent decree and they were threatening Kathy with her losing her house if they didn’t get what they wanted.

I think DO would have intended Mark and Sarah to have the website, but don’t think they handled it as DO would have hoped, yet that was their test and DO is their judge. However, we can judge the things they say to people who come to the website who come to me (and told Cathy in emails) and tell me how little they helped them and told them things that were anti what DO taught.

For instance, Mark and/or Sarah told Cathy in at least one email that there was nothing to do but study the information to be ready to reincarnate some thousands of years from now when DO returns. This is anti DO’s teachings as he said the gate was still open. He wasn’t promoting suicide though for some that would have been an acceptable way to choose to exit. But for people who never personally knew, though there could be a rare exception, the method was to “get their information out” and be willing to Stand in Their Defense, their being from the Creators Kingdom that created the earth and all it’s inhabitants. This is spelled out in several ways in the document on the Heavensgate.com website in the article written by DO’s trusted servant Jwnody, named, “Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure”. There are many other documents that talk about being against human suicide because we need these vehicles to learn lessons through.

Also in their lawsuit against Rkkody’s company Right to Know and his Daughter, they also won the Heavensgate.com website and copies of the Groups Book (they never collected) and sought to stop the selling of Heavens Gate, Ollody’s (Oliver Odinwood’s) artwork on mugs, t shirts, etc. which Rkkody only did so he could keep giving away tapes and Cd’s with the Heavens Gate Information on them, not a bad way to fund the effort.

That’s part of what enabled Mark and Sarah to think they were to be on control of all the information to an uncanny degree of limiting who could hear the audio tapes, even though DO didn’t give them that kind of task. DO only gave them the task of dividing the materials among those who wanted to disseminate their information, yet they distorted that into becoming their own little empire to where they are doing the opposite seeking to stop me and Cathy and Carlan and Jhnody from disseminating the information as if that wasn’t our task to do, the task of any believer to do. They told Cathy and I in person that they didn’t understand why what they were doing to disseminate the information was enough, when that is completely missing the point of the dissemination project as it was any new believers way of working for the Next Level rather than letting some hierarchy do that work. It’s the same way the Lower Forces sought to take over the Jesus records and did though the Catholic church and later other sects who even persecuted so called lay people who began sharing their interpretations with others. The clergy thought they were only qualified to teach/instruct and interpret things when they many times were distorting and diluting the meaning of Jesus teachings. I have many, many examples now of things they have said to interviewers that are doing the same kinds of things, diluting and distorting what TI and DO taught, coming up with their own interpretations and treating people as “swine”, they don’t feel are worthy of having and sharing the information, telling them when they allowed some to have a few of the 1061 audio tapes that it’s only for personal use and not to be given to anyone else. And to put the icing on that cake they have baked, they are suing me and threatening to sue anyone who disobeys their edict.

Niklas:

Most accounts I’ve read from outsiders who dealt with Classmates in person have been consistent about them coming across as relatively ‘normal’. A May 1997 Seattle Times article quotes a spokeswoman from Interact Entertainment Group who describes the Higher Source consultants they hired as ‘strict in diet and dress’ but with ‘a good sense of humor’ and being ‘exceptionally smart’. In the discourse surrounding Heaven’s Gate, there is much talk of ‘brainwashing’. Students are portrayed as some manner of hypnotized victims spellbound by a charismatic leader. Ben Zeller – whose writings are a must-read for anyone who wants to understand Heaven’s Gate – disagrees. He argues that, rather than mindless cultists, the members were devoted religious adherents. Bearing this in mind, it’s interesting to observe how both HBO’s Heaven’s Gate: The Cult of Cults and an ambitious podcast series I listened to feature Zeller heavily in the historical segments yet omit his views on brainwashing. Instead, these analyses are provided by a colorful cast of characters who all appear to be occupational anti-cult entrepreneurs with only rudimentary knowledge about Heaven’s Gate.

45. Mark:

– Ben Zeller has demonstrated a tendency to rely on a more studied model of careful analysis and educated background, resulting in an independent point of view and objective reasoning to back up his studies. Documentary producers inevitably want less thorough examinations in favor of provocative quips and vapid statements. Accordingly, they often turn to a second or third tier of people in the field – alleged ‘cult experts’ who possess neither the credentials nor the logic required.

45. Sawyer:

It was Ben Zeller who sent me his first book’s manuscript on the Heavens Gate story to comment, which I did. I’m not sure he used much if any of what I said about it. For the Heavens Gate podcast by Pineapple Street Media he worked with that team to develop the 10 series podcasts that was quite instrumental to provide more of a look at the students in particular by playing a clip of the audio part of the video of The Class singing.

After that series had been very successful on iTunes, Ben Zeller invited me to join him and Anne Hepperman, the Director of the Heaven’s Gate Podcast, (who interviewed me at their Brooklyn Office and then came to my house in Vermont to get a more in depth interview) at the annual conference of the American Academy of Religion in Denver in 2018, I think it was, that Ben was a member of.

Anne and Ben knew that I was not happy with the way Terrie Nettles and Frank (Andody) portrayed both TI and DO as hypocrites. Anne wasn’t the writer so she had limited influence on the script and what was used from the interviews she provided the show. They didn’t give me any time to provide some explanation to the claims that TI was a hypocrite for writing letters to her vehicle’s daughter Terrie over the years TI and DO’s students weren’t permitted to write letters (though there were a few exceptions to that).

For me, I believed in TI and DO’s program of wiping out the past to begin to become a new creature. I had no strong ties to anyone in my past at the time so it was relatively easy for me to no longer relate to my vehicle’s family. After all I’d been living in British Columbia, Canada, near Clear water and then in Newport, Siletz and Waldport Oregon for nearly 4 years while my family was in New York where this vehicle of mine grew up and I was only occasionally calling or writing them, though I did visit them in the summer of 1975 before I joined with TI and DO.

But that was the program. I didn’t have to abide by the program. For the first 9 months in the group there were plenty of opportunities to contact family as it was the honor system whether someone separated from those ties or not.

But the report from Terrie because of one tiny sentence I believe she misinterpreted into thinking TI was looking for a way out of the group, yet she didn’t seem to have a clue I guess to who TI, The Soul was and how She was actually the greater driving force to help DO awaken – but then they were both equally that same driving force to fulfill the tasks they realized they were sent to do that in their design DO was to complete after TI left. We didn’t know in the Classroom that that was actually part of the design for TI (The Father, DO’s Older Member aka Heavenly Father, Jehovah and Elohim) to leave the task ahead of DO as even shown in Revelation 12:

Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

The Flood is the vast negativity TI was at the helm of the task to receive and deal with for their first 10 years together. The saying, “the earth opened her mouth” was a way people spoke of someone going into the grave. In other words the death and leaving behind of her vehicle.

In the next verse…

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

…the Woman’s (TI’s Soul’s) seed continues and DO who TI graduated into The Next Level Above Human Membership was her seed and those who had the testimony of Jesus were The Students’ Souls about 4000 years ago with Moses (DO) who upheld “the commandments of God” and then some 2000 years ago upheld “the testimony of Jesus Christ” (also DO’s Soul’s).

I mean, say you were a student and entered into a university to study chemistry and the professor gave a lesson on completing an experiment. The professor might know of a number of ways to complete that same experiment but knows the Student needs to learn one of those primary ways of performing the experiment that even includes learning to follow instructions – a critical lesson to learn in any laboratory or for any team or crew. The student also needs to receive the instructions to prove to the Professor they can follow instructions as that might end up being a life and death situation if they don’t. The Student doesn’t design the program. We students didn’t have anything to do with the design of the experiment/program to outgrow and overcome our humanness. I knew from the start that TI and DO were exactly who they said they were and thus to me their instructions were exactly what I wanted to do, though I did have my weaknesses. TI didn’t need to follow the drop the past guideline as we did yet she did by separating from Terrie, her vehicle’s husband and her other three children. But TI felt to keep Terrie abreast of some of what she was thinking and felt to help Terrie (and Joey, her vehicles son) with a small amount of financial help as well, what added up to about $600.00 I believe Terrie reported.

Furthermore when TI did instigate our visiting our human families in 1985, the task was described primarily as relieving their anxiety about our absence from their lives. As it turned out it was also a test of our own commitment to TI and DO. TI wrote letters to Terrie and sent her some funds for several reasons. One was to relieve her anxiety at her mothers absence from her life. But also, both TI and DO loved Terrie and wanted to give her the best chance they could of rising up to see Them as who they had awakened to become, Two Older Member Souls from the Next Level Above Human, the Kingdom of God, the Physical Kingdom of Heaven. We have about 200 audio tapes that show how dedicated TI was to the task so for anyone to believe what Terrie guessed and perhaps wanted to believe about TI “trying to get out” has no evidence to it and instead there is tons of evidence to the contrary.

Another point in that podcast, while I’m at it was brought up by Terrie also that was critical of DO because he didn’t tell Terrie that TI’s vehicle had been sick and died. I know from a human perspective that would be a horrible thing to not tell her. But TI and DO were not humans though they occupied human vehicles. As it turned out, TI had told DO not to tell Terrie about her dying since she knew she was leaving. The doctors sent her home to die because they said the cancer in her liver had spread throughout her body and TI didn’t want to go through all it might take to try to halt the cancer. They even told the doctor before he even diagnosed her with liver cancer that she didn’t want to fight it nor be kept alive on machines. TI knew it was time to exit. DO said she burnt out her vehicle dealing with the bulk of the negativity against her that primarily started when they went public and attracted followers in 1975.

The clincher that DO was honestly trying to follow TI’s last wishes by not telling Terrie of TI’s death of her vehicle at that time is evident because TI didn’t tell Terrie that she had her eye removed, from Cancer, some 2 years before the death sentence. We lived in Texas mostly in those years where Terrie also lived and yet TI didn’t call Terrie but one time I think. Nor did TI visit Terrie. Nor did TI talk about her sickness to Terrie.

I believe TI didn’t want to tell Terrie because she didn’t want Terrie to be upset and didn’t want to have Terrie want to visit her and to unknowingly cause interference with DO being able to carry on the Classroom to finish the task.

DO said he knew there would come a time where he would have to explain to Terrie what happened to TI, and why he had to live by TI’s last wishes. DO did send two students to explain about TI’s exit soon after TI left. TI was concerned big time with the Groups security. After all there were investigators looking for various adult students and the FBI at one time were looking for them thinking they had something to do with the cattle mutilations in Wyoming, Colorado and Texas and Oklahoma in the early to mid 1970’s. TI and DO didn’t want some so called cult deprogrammer to try to kidnap someone’s loved one in the Group. The students were all adults and no one was held against their will or threatened in any way or made to feel guilty for leaving. In fact some were sent out of the group a number of times because they didn’t seem to be fully engaging growth as TI and DO felt we needed to do.

By the way, there was one time that DO called a meeting that TI didn’t attend to where DO asked us to bring any bibles we had to. We didn’t have many so we doubled up on them. I think I recall I was partners with Chkody at the time. DO had us open up to Revelation 12:1.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

DO said the “Woman” (generator of life) was speaking of TI his Older Member. The entire chapter of Revelation 12 is like an outline of what was to happen from TI’s perspective where Revelation 11 was like an outline of what was to happen from both TI and DO’s perspective. Revelation 10 is like an outline of what was to happen from Students perspective prior to Revelation 11 and after they ascended back into their positions on board spacecrafts in the Next Level’s keeping. There is lots more to say about the Book of Revelation that I’ve said in my book and in video’s posted on my YouTube channel: 3spm.

Finally regarding the Heaven’s Gate Podcast, Frank (who had been Andody in the Class until he left in 1993) said that DO had become more controlling after TI left when I think the evidence suggests if one wants to use that “controlling” word that there were actually less “controls” in place after TI left. We had more movies, video’s, deserts, exercise programs. DO ate with us more and DO was more relaxed on talking. I asked Frank for examples of DO becoming more controlling and he had nothing to say.

Niklas:

Today, most scholars consider the concept of brainwashing– a term that first emerged to explain why captured US soldiers had defected to North Korea – as not only pseudoscience but also inapplicable to members of what we commonly call ‘religious cults’. One of the consultants in the HBO series, a sociologist named Janja Lalich, dismisses the relative scientific consensus on brainwashing as ‘some academics who want us to think that it doesn’t exist’. On the contrary, she ‘guarantees’ its existence based on her experience as an activist in a Marxist-Leninist political party. She has since, and I quote, ‘dedicated her life to educating others about cults’ by writing books and giving lectures. She’s also launched her own scientific explanation for brainwashing: ‘bounded choice’. One of her books uses Heaven’s Gate to argue this model.

46. Mark:

– Lalich wrote a non-objective book about her experience in a cult and then threw in our trademarks – which are illegal for her to use – to get people to buy it. None of these ‘experts’ have any training in the relevant fields. They have neither the studied background nor the discipline but are used by directors for sheer sensationalism. The characters in that HBO special had already been discredited by professionals in fields such as anthropology, sociology, psychology and applied religious studies long before it was produced. They are low-level hacks who should never be used by real news or documentary-makers seeking accurate information. We told the production crew, in person, not to use those individuals. Instead, they edited Zeller’s contributions to the show down to a minimum.

46. Sawyer:

First off, the so called Trademarks that Mark and Sarah registered are very in doubt. None of them were condoned by TI and DO and Crew. Mark and Sarah received nothing to give them reasons to trademark anything but even if they did or even if that was a good idea, to keep those images away from new and old believers is very against TI and Do’s intentions in my evidenced based opinion.

Niklas:

In the media section of Janja Lalich’s website, Cult Research & Information Center, there is a 2021 video called Secrets of the Heaven’s Gate Cult. I watched it and noticed a few extraordinary assertions. For instance, she purports to have been the first to figure out who the departed were and what cult they belonged to. That is downright ridiculous since everyone’s pockets contained an ID, and the Heaven’s Gate website was left open on their computers. Furthermore, she says there were media vans ‘lined up’ on her street, with reporters hanging on her doorstep waiting for the renowned expert to appear. Robert Balch and David Taylor – both of whom appear in the HBO series – are by all accounts the only academics to have worked directly on Heaven’s Gate before the suicides, and they attracted nowhere near that kind of media hounding.

47. Mark:

– If those in the Class truly were ‘brainwashed’, there really is little hope for the world. This insistence is a clear indicator of weakness and lack of serious study by these ‘specialists’. In reality, they are just recovering from their own failures. Why have neither Lalich nor the other one – Steve Hassan – who appeared in the Stitcher podcast and HBO special never so much as contacted us to get the real story or verify their information? Nor have they spoken to any of those from the Class featured in the same programs. We own all the Group’s teachings, and we’ve never heard from either of them.

47. Sawyer:

Mark says, “We own all the Group’s teachings…” That “ownership” was decreed by Judge Lisa Guy Schall to enter into a settlement with Mark and Sarah so they wouldn’t appeal her judgment against them having any right to any of the Heaven’s Gate property they left behind. So they bribed the County to get the intellectual property they did get. Then they used that settlement decision to win another Consent Decree in 1999. But in reality TI and DO didn’t want anyone to “own” the material.

Here is an example of what DO thought about ownership taken from Session 12 of the “Beyond Human – The Last Call” Video Series:

“Actually, there shouldn’t be any here in the human kingdom. This kingdom and every element on it, everything that goes into making an automobile or a house or a company or anything else, belongs to the Chief of Chiefs and His Kingdom, the God of Gods. It does not belong to humans. Humans play a little game of copy-cat by saying, “I want to own this, I want to stake this off, it’s mine.” It isn’t his, he’s just playing a game. Now if he has the attitude that it isn’t “mine,” he’s at least a little closer. If he has the attitude of saying, “This is just entrusted to me as the keeper of it, and I’ll do the best I can.” And if the day comes when a Representative is there with the transition available, the day is come if you’re someone who might be capable of connecting with this and know your Father.”

Previous to this part of DO’s talk he explained needing to have a car title or house title to abide by the laws of this land, but in the case of the Intellectual Property belonging to it’s creators there is no need for such a legal document unless someone has chosen to look to the human kingdom minds to drum up such a justification.

They wanted “any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information” and who could even sell it to raise funds to continue to disseminate their material. They are suing me and Cathy for making and selling T shirts with the heaven’s gate logo on them and for using the Celestial Being image Ollody created. All we wanted to do was put those images out into the world and sure we have to turn a little profit to be able to continue doing that and other related work. But they let those lawsuits go to their heads and caused them to ignore what TI and DO showed they expected to happen.

But since Mark brings up the Stitcher, Pineapple Street Media documentary, that had Lalich and Hassan in it, which I agree are know nothings who media groups turn to, to please their primary constituents

However, while I was working with Anne Hepperman, having been invited by her to be interviewed in her teams office in Brooklyn to include me in their podcast and when she came to my house in Vermont for additional footage, I learned that she also interviewed Nancie Brown, mother of Alxody’s vehicle (one of the Students who exited), who I had also been close to after I left the Group in 1994.

Anne learned from Nancie that she had a video tape of the Christmas celebration, I believe of 1996 when Alxody and Vrnody returned from their choice to have the castration operation. By the way, DO set up that option, in a way that required a student who wanted the operation to go live in an area close to where the operation would be performed by a certified surgeon of that procedure. That person needed to get a job to pay for it themselves. This way that person would not be under the influence of DO. So Alxody and Vrnody (who was a relatively new student having joined in 1994, whom I met then, had finished their having that operation.

The Song of TI and DO:

The video showed the Classroom singing the DO a deer song from the Sound of Music that they changed the lyrics to be about TI and DO’s Classroom. TI and DO had felt that musical was significantly influenced in the story and music, etc. directly by a Next Level Above Human Crew to be a type of outline for TI and DO’s awakening and taking a group of students through learning their lessons (TI called a “piano roll” to where each lesson step was like one note on the piano and all the lessons would accumulate into a “song”, (which is depicted in Revelation chapters 5 and 14). TI also compared the lesson plan to Old McDonald’s Farm song to where each lesson step was like the sound each animal made, so that each time one goes through the song they sing the building string of animal sounds, again into a “song”. In the case of the Classroom the lessons weren’t literally musical sounds/notes. For instance one lesson step was to stop oneself from thinking about the past. This was the beginning of becoming a new creature in TI and DO’s “Process” aka Overcoming Process to cease operating as a human and with human mind and to increase operating with Their Next Level Mind by adopting their behaviors and ways they taught since they were the Teachers of the Experiment Requirements to complete the Astronaut Training Program to literally get a job that could be eternal to work in Crews on board spacecrafts that could be as large as planets, inside and/or out.

So on with the story. So Anne told me that Nancie told her that Mark and Sarah said she couldn’t give the video to anyone, that it was meant for her only. So Anne wanted to use it so knowing that I had a close relationship with Nancie asked me if I would ask her to allow her to use the audio track in the podcast. How could this be a bad thing I thought. Mark and Sarah were crazy with their sense of being the authority over all the material they had possession of. So I called Nancie and asked her and she told me Mark (and don’t know if she included Sarah) made her promise not to give the video to anyone, confirming what Anne had told me.

So it was then time for Anne to visit with Nancie in California to get an interview. When she went there she asked Nancie if she could rip (remove) the audio track from the video and Nancie agreed. That’s how part of the audio track got into the Heaven’s Gate podcasts, I believe, last episode #10.

However, Anne also told me that when Mark (and perhaps Sarah) heard it broadcast he was very upset and issued some kind of threat against their playing it but I don’t know if they ever followed through with their threat.

The video also included a “talent show” by some students and I believe I ended up seeing part of it in another documentary. I’m not sure how that came about but the HBO Max show, Heaven’s Gate Cult of Cults was a joint effort by the producers of the Heaven’s Gate podcast and a California based Video production Group.

Niklas:

Mrcody and Srfody have now served as Heaven’s Gate’s caretakers for over twenty-five years – longer than the Class even existed. Their day-to-day tasks range from website maintenance to answering emails and handling the Group’s intellectual property. Ever vigilant, in 2020 they threatened to sue a rapper called Lil Uzi Vert unless he changed his album cover which used a modified version of the Heaven’s Gate logo.

48. Mark:

– The Telah Foundation requires roughly four hours on an average day; about thirty hours per week, including weekends. The remaining time is devoted to our full-time jobs so that we can finance these activities. Our main task is disseminating the Next Level information to the world – from the website to the book, the tapes, and all that relates to it. It is our firm belief that the Class bequeathed their teachings to us in the way they wanted them to be, without edits or spotlights placed on individuals left behind. Srfody and I have gone to great lengths to ensure the materials remain intact. We have a profound understanding that the Group’s writings and intellectual property are part of their legacy.

48. Sawyer:

Mark and Sarah are both convinced that they and they only are to spread TI and DO’s information. That’s never been TI and DO’s intention for them to limit others and limit who could see/hear/read the information. Yes they have supported the website for all these years and I of course don’t take that away from them but they are not doing even a decent job of sharing the information with the world. They have told me and Cathy to our faces that they see people that attempt to use TI and DO’s information as “cockroaches” who they show their court order/consent decrees to and they “scatter” because of. They think of people as “swine” also, yet they do provide the website. They accused me of promoting suicide, calling me a “murderer” when I’ve never killed anyone nor promoted suicide and actually have talked endlessly about the futility of suicide and how the group themselves were anti human suicide because we need our physical bodies to learn lessons through.

There are so many things they could do to share Ti and Do’s Information with the “world” that they hardly lifted a finger to do. They finally put the Beyond Human videos on Vimeo while they had been available on YouTube and through myself and Crlody (Carlan) for many years. Even a new believer in TI and DO, referred to as XF did more to share the information with the world than they have done and they issued strikes against him or had someone named Dave do so, when all XF did was post the Beyond Human Videos for free download.

In 1997 they were even harassing Rkkody and Rkkody’s housemate Gnrody. I have proof of this. They wanted Rkkody to give them the audio tapes he and Oscody had retrieved from Storage. They had retrieved 486 audio tape cassettes and pretty much split them so that Rkkody had about 200 of them and Oscody had the others. Rkkody knew from the Letter Mark and Sarah received from DO and Crew that they were to divide the items of value among those who were inclined to disseminate our information, and the audio tapes were stacked in boxes at the front of that storage room. In the same Letter it was suggested that Mark and Sarah get help with Storage from Rkkody and Oscody (and even others). According to Rkkody Mark and Sarah wanted nothing to do with Storage, which is why they turned over the keys to vehicles and storage codes and locations and the Letters to Rkkody. It was about a week later that Mark and Sarah saw that the main media frenzy that happened had died down already and then decided they wanted to do the task they were given the opportunity to do. So they wanted the tapes retrieved by Rkkody since Oscody was working with Mark and Sarah at that point. Both Rkkody and Oscody were entertaining exiting their vehicles anyway so why not leave the tapes with Mark and Sarah. So Rkkody copied the audio cassettes and began to digitize them and put them on CD’s and send them to libraries and people like myself.

So before Rkkody exited he gave the audio masters to Mark and Sarah and the ones he’d copied by that time were in Carlan’s hands as Carlan was working with him to do all aspects of the dissemination task. By the way the dissemination task was intended to be done by all believers in TI and DO to show the Next Level we wanted to work for them. Mark and Sarah are still attempting to take that task away from people. They said as much to Cathy and I in person in 2021, saying something like, “isn’t what we are doing to disseminate the information enough,” showing that they missed the whole point that new believers needed to rise to that occasion as shown in Jwnody’s document in the Heaven’s Gate Book, “Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure”.

Next where Mark includes the “tapes” in the Next Level Information they were supposed to disseminate, why is it that 1061 audio tapes were never disseminated hardly at all to anyone but Jhnody (Juan) who they sent some 80 audio cassettes to, telling him they were for “safe keeping”.

Then Jhnody kept asking for more tapes and Mark and Sarah finally over a years time sent him digitized audios – over 900 (that included what Rkkody had, that he had sent me in 1997). So when Jhnody realized they were going to be hidden away, knowing they were intended to be shared with the world, knowing that I had maintained a YouTube channel (3spm) for many years sharing tapes with people that Mark and Sarah didn’t attempt to stop at that time, he sent me a thumb drive containing over 900 of the digitized audios.

Mark and Sarah repeatedly call me a thief of those tapes yet they were gifted to me by Rkkody and Jhnody who both were named by DO to receive the tapes in Mark and Sarah’s Letter.

Where Mark says, “Our main task is disseminating the Next Level information to the world – from the website to the book, the tapes, and all that relates to it” that establishes that they are also talking about the audio tapes. Yet it’s been 25 years that the audio tapes have not been disseminated by them. Why many people ask. Many people think it’s because of money – they hope to make money with them somehow. I don’t think it’s really about money, though there could be some sense that if they exclusively have them they hold a stronger position with movie studios since apparently they are acting as check partners for Rio (Neody) to arrive at a movie deal. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is part of their desire to have all the intellectual property the group made in their exclusive possession. They have said things to Cathy and to me along the lines of their wanting to preserve the information for 200 years. They told me and those on one of my live streams (that I have as evidence) that included Cathy before I knew her personally and also later when Cathy and I met with them in November of 2021 that they intended on putting all the audio tapes on Vimeo (where they have a channel with the Beyond Human Video Tapes posted). They said they would do this by March 25, 2022. Mark said that this wasn’t going to happen unless Carlan and I both gave them all the audio tapes we had and agreed to not disseminate them because then they would be the exclusive disseminators of them via Vimeo. At our face to face meeting in Nov 2021 I asked them what was special about that date and they said it was very special to them, that’s all I recall.

There was no way in the world that Carlan or I would give them any of the audio tapes we were given by Rkkody and Jhnody. So maybe they would say, that’s why they never posted the audios on Vimeo. However, I learned that they originally intended to use Vimeo because they didn’t think someone could download them from there. But that Mark discovered that using an Apple application they could be downloaded. I don’t know if that was why they didn’t post them there.

However I could never go along with that, as what happens when the site is down, no one has access to the tapes? Mark and Sarah talk about preserving them for 200 years but what better way to really preserve them than by putting them in as many hands as possible. Furthermore what’s the use of preserving them for 200 years if no one can hear them until then. For several years Mark and Sarah have sent someone who asked for the audios one audio at a time that had a limited time span that could be downloaded and couldn’t be saved on the person’s computer or phone (that I was aware of). Before I met Cathy in person, she had to ask for the same tape multiple times because the time ran out or her cell phone died so lost the link.

These tapes average over an hour each and there are 1061 of them according to Mark. Some are hard to hear and those are some of the first ones Mark and Sarah send to people which in an of itself can discourage them from listening to others. People aren’t given the tape log so they can choose which tapes they want to listen to. When someone receives tape number one they can ask them for tape number two. At that rate it would take many years to hear all the tapes. Plus what TI and DO talk about isn’t at all easy to hear and even harder to digest as we all have Influences that can balk at who they say they are and why they are hear and what is required to graduate Their Classroom and why the requirements are so steep. I was present for over 700 of the meetings and yet when I listen to them again, I realize how much I missed and how much there still was for me to gain from them. So keeping them from people makes no sense unless one fears the heat of being seen as a representative of what the mainstream media refers to as a dangerous suicide cult leader.

Mark and Sarah have been attempting to legitimize TI and DO’s teachings as becoming a new age religion. Do talked a bit about that in audio tape 331, if I recall but perhaps in another. I had felt that before I heard DO say it, perhaps from being present during that meeting it stayed in my subconscious. What I was consciously seeing was the language they were using in the email interviews they would give over the years. Like when they said, there is no Heaven or Hell to one interviewer. I could see saying that because of TI and DO’s interpretation of those terms being somewhat different than the other religions depictions of those words. And perhaps they did say more about it in those emails and the publisher didn’t use it all, but I’ve seen a lot of evidence that Mark and Sarah say very little and in my opinion assume a great deal and think they know so much while showing that they have forgotten a great deal. We all lose some of what we once gained when we dropped out of the Group but then we lose even more if we don’t “use” what we still have and attempt to add to what we once had by listening to tapes, and reading their book, etc. I don’t know if they ever listen to much as I know from first hand experience that influences don’t want us to do so as it becomes painful to see what we lost by dropping out.

The next sentence says more, “It is our firm belief that the Class bequeathed their teachings to us in the way they wanted them to be, without edits or spotlights placed on individuals left behind.”

All this so called eloquent language. There was no “bequeathed”. They were supposed to retrieve the contents of storage and divide the items of value among those who were inclined to disseminate Their Information. They, Rkkody and Jhnody were given the website that contains the book. Jhnody and Rkkody were also sent information directly by DO that Mark and Sarah didn’t get and that wasn’t in Storage. Oscody was given the Book to publish and register in the Library of Congress. Somehow Mark and Sarah took that task from him. Rkkody was given the codes to make all the programming changes to the Heaven’s Gate various websites. Jhnody was given the original masters of the Beyond Human video series of 12 tapes close to 13 hours in total. As I’ve shown Rkkody and Oscody retrieved the audio tapes. Mark and Sarah told Cathy and I they went to Storage and the locks were on the door but Rkkody says in his manuscript that Oscody went to storage and discovered the locks were put on Storage. Mark and Sarah told Cathy and I that the reason they didn’t go to Storage was because they had to help authorities by going to help them identify the bodies. Yet every member as I understand it had on their person some form of legal Identification including drivers licenses, passports for many.

What we learned subsequently was that all Mark and Sarah did was send authorities in San Diego a list of the names of students, something they had received from DO and Crew. Why then didn’t they go to Storage to retrieve the “items of value…”? There is much circumstantial evidence that Rkkody’s manuscript is the most accurate of what happened as I have stated before. They were afraid and that fear was greater than their trust that TI, DO and Crew would protect them. I believe that’s also why they still won’t show their faces to the media and is why they don’t want people to have TI and DO’s information and treat it seriously. They still don’t trust in DO. They harp on “security” but at this point it’s blown way out of proportion because though we do strive to be careful in certain ways, TI and DO and Crew will help us through the rough spots of disseminating their information.

Finally, there is this little statement that says, “…the Class bequeathed their teachings to us in the way they wanted them to be, without edits or spotlights placed on individuals left behind.”

“…without edits or spotlights placed on individuals left behind.”

This appears to say a great deal to me though perhaps I am wrong in looking between the lines but perhaps I am seeing what they may be hiding.

Years ago, given that Mark and Sarah wouldn’t send me the audio tapes they had digitized as I never wanted the actual cassettes, saying it was because I would share them with others, I asked them in an email whether the reason they didn’t want anyone to have those audios was because of how it could be found in them the explanation of their being instructed to leave the Class for not wanting to follow procedures surrounding the lesson step entitled, “I Could be wrong”. Mark wrote to me which I still have the proof of that said “that never crossed our minds” and that “…you should restrain such wonderings” (paraphrased). But why should I restrain my wondering. After all wouldn’t anyone want to know why they were speaking out of both sides of their mouth by saying they wanted to spread the information around the world while holding back over 1000 hours of audio tapes?

After all by that point, I had followed an email interview they gave to Gizmodo I believe it was (that is posted on my blog, Sawyerhg.wordpress.com) where they were asked why they left the group and their response was something along the lines of, “to do this task” which was a huge lie and there is a great deal of evidence in the audio tapes of DO talking about how he had to instruct them to leave if they didn’t want to follow procedures. I didn’t even know about the many clips where DO addresses them until years after this Gizmodo interview had been published.

Also before I knew of all the audio tape clips with DO talking about how they ceased to look to his Mind but were satisfied looking to one another’s minds, had become a couple and had refused tasks DO offered to them because of not wanting to change anything about their comfort level outside the Classroom or circumstances, I watched a YouTube video of an email interview where they said according to the host, when asked about their holding back the audio tapes, that they wouldn’t be released until all those spoken about in the tapes were deceased (perhaps something about doing so in respect for their families, might have been part of it). The host I believe was, Dr. Todd Grande, but I haven’t been able to find that interview yet. When I heard that I had no real interest in talking much about Mark and Sarah. I was content we had the audio tapes TI, DO and Crew wanted us to have and that if They wanted us to have more, they would arrange it somehow, which they did I believe by compelling Mark and Sarah to send them to Jhnody.

So in that light who are those students, in this case former students who are spoken of in the audios that are not yet deceased? There are a number but Mark and Sarah certainly are included. Plus what kind of criteria is that for not providing TI and DO’s information to the public. Are they claiming to be servants of TI and DO or not. Is their judgment so correct to what TI and DO would do now. They seem to think so, which is very sad. It’s one thing to be confident with actually having significant proof of how TI and DO thought about a subject and another thing altogether to use our own minds to be confident about what TI and DO might say and do. Isn’t that attitude telling with the reason they were sent out of the Classroom. They didn’t know how they could be wrong. They had become confident in their own opinions, even seeing or picking and choosing minor things TI and DO said as their justification for doing whatever they wanted with the information.

Niklas:

Do you have any human goals you are currently working towards?

49. Mark:

– We are just making due. Our main goal right now is to get done with this interview; it is just a few sentences short of The Greatest Story Ever Told, and that ran for over four hours. Things are different with Ti, Do, and the Group gone, but Srfody and I do what we can to evolve in the ways of the Next Level. We have grown together to become the longest-lasting partnership in the history of the Class. The Next Level knows what they are doing.

49. Sawyer:

“Just making due”. Isn’t filing a lawsuit against me, Cathy and Carlan (Crlody) something they are “working towards,” as asked by the host?

Look at their ego acting as if this interview was “a few sentences short of The Greatest Story Ever Told, and that ran for over four hours”. That film was about Jesus. They are seeking to stop disciples of the same Soul who was in Jesus from sharing what he said in some 1061 audio tapes. Marks responses in this interview is not even short of one of the greatest pack of lies and deceit and manipulative innuendo that has been told in a long time, perhaps alongside how the organized church replaced Jesus with Paul of Tarsus who talked about Jesus as if he knew when he never knew much of his Mind. Paul showed some signs of wanting to be a student of Jesus’ teachings but he just didn’t know a lot about those teachings so fell prey to the Lower Forces trying to commandeer the Teachings of Jesus to distort and dilute them into what became the Christian religion.

Mark brags about being the so called “longest-lasting partnership in the history of the class” but they were booted out of the Class because among other things DO said they wanted a relationship with one another. They were sent out in 1987. From that point on they were not in the Class so how can they be the longest lasting partnership in a group they were no longer a part of.

DO still wanted them to not reject the entire Next Level and go further and further away from Their Minds, so he kept offering them tasks and finally at their departure had offered them the tasks they were given by DO and the most important parts of those tasks they have twisted to doing their own way which is contrary to what DO’s wishes were but like the Next Level Older Member that DO is, made it all into a positive to show us what can happen to even someone who feels they are a believer. They can even believe DO was off track in ways and yet not allow themselves to even see how they are saying that (like in this interview), while thinking they love TI and DO and as they mutate Their teachings into a new age religion far afield from what was taught by TI and DO.

I had to do my best to set the record straight as I know how to do.

I really do not enjoy surfacing Mark and/or Sarah’s misinformation propagation, but they give me no choice. They could have just left me along to play audio tapes on my YouTube channel and send people the information, all freely. They could have made them all available to me and anyone who wanted to disseminate them. But they chose not to so now I and Cathy and Carlan (and so some degree Jhnody) must seek to win this lawsuit for the Freedom of Information about all the truth about what exactly TI and DO taught and demonstrated to the world over 24+ years.

It’s not over until TI and DO and Crew decide to advance the recycling. Anyone can appeal to TI and DO and ask them for service and seek to put it into motion as they help those see what shape it can take.

sawyer
sawcat575@gmail.com
http://www.youtube.com/3spm
http://www.facebook.com/sawyer.heavensgate
http://www.sawyerhg.wordpress.com

Jesus Return, Rapture, Ascension, AntiChrist Summary

There isn’t any evidence that anyones physical body would be taken away by the Next Level except for that possibility re: the Two Witnesses (Father and Jesus) and their Students. What Paul wrote about was the “catching away” that was made into the word “rapture”. The catching away was exactly the same idea that Jesus presented when he had some students who he said he would make “fishers of men” – caught like a fish, except in this catching the truth was the bait that the students were prepared to recognize and it wasn’t to eat them but would involve their dying to their humanness and even being killed by the lower forces who killed Jesus.

The ascension revealed in Revelation 11 can go either way because just like with Enoch and Moses and Elijah and Jesus they left with their physical bodies because according to Jesus they (their Souls) came from the Kingdom of God/Heaven. The thief on the cross was taken in his Soul or Spirit form for believing in Jesus when he was being killed as a heretic by the religious and the govt but his Soul would be back now to progress further. There was some dispute of whether Moses’ body was taken, but it was never found and when Jesus went up the mountain with James, John and Peter he met two people who his students claimed were Moses and Elijah which Jesus didn’t deny so that’s another big evidence that Moses didn’t leave his human body behind. The reason some believe that the Two Witnesses were to be Moses and Elijah or Enoch and one of the other two, was because of the description of them as having power over the plagues of causing drought:
⁠
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
⁠
Maybe that’s why there was the biggest drought recorded in California in the 1970’s when the evidence points to the Father and Jesus returning as the Two Witnesses which TI and DO satisfy most all the prophecies of, though there were options on how to see those fulfillments. TI and Do joked that they wished they had the power to zap someone like it also talks about in Rev 11 about the TWO.
⁠
But the reason those two were depicted with those powers that could be related to the powers that Moses and Elijah had – over the weather and to “zap” some as Elijah did was because the returned Older Member from the Next Level Above Human – the Kingdom of God, Kingdom in the literal heavens of outer space, were the same two Older Members Souls doing those tasks in the lead up to the final return (in the 1970’s). It was according to TI that said in a statement they published in the book UFO Missionaries Extraordinary that said that the Soul known to us as DO who took the vehicle named Marshall Herff Applewhite had started the experiment in the Next Level vehicle known to us as Adam who failed his tests then but recovered by the time he was incarnate in the vehicle known as Enoch and then returned to use the vehicle known as Moses to start the first trimester of the birthing process into membership in the Next Level, then as Elijah and then as Jesus to present the 2nd trimester and requirements for graduation in the third trimester that is still in progress, the second phase of that trimester after the first phase has passed with the Heaven’s Gate Students graduation.
⁠
The real definition of rapture was when the Teachers speak the truth publicly and those vehicles which were prepared by being given a soul deposit in their human vehicle recognize the Older Member by his Mind/Spirit – Their information about their reality (as opposed to religiosity and spirituality) and leave their former human lives behind to literally follow with the Older Members. That happened in 1975. So that was their being “caught away” from their human lives and then that happened again in 1994 when some also left all behind to join with then DO only, since TI left in 1985 as was prophesied in Rev 12.
⁠
Do identified TI as his Older Member aka Heavenly Father and said she was the “woman” in Revelation 12 and by knowing all they said and did that can be shown to those with an open mind verse by verse. So they were witnesses to one another like Jesus talked about and also talked about in John 14 as their both returning to reside (abode) with their students.
⁠
Plus Rev 3:12 describes that they have new names which also indicates they have new bodies as otherwise wouldn’t need new names. And they prophesy which means speaking the truth inspired by God, their Older Member up to the Chief of Chiefs. Jesus also said that he as the “son of man” was returning, meaning an “offspring of human” and that he would be sitting at the right hand of power and His Heavenly Father was his power who he was serving in the task of “right hand man (person)'”
⁠
Thus Elijah (the same Older Member Soul in Adam, Enoch, Moses, Elijah and Jesus) did return to reveal the antichrist as the space alien fallen angel souls and all in the human kingdom discarnate or still with their human vehicles. DO knew he would be called the AntiChrist but the facts are that the antichrist never left and was the individual or individuals (Souls) who took over Paul of Tarsus which helped steer the beginning church way off track until today where Christianity doesn’t’ resemble at all what Jesus actually taught in total.
⁠
DO did indicate that the humans who had become in league with the antichrist, had believed and put their faith in humans and the human systems of govt, etc. to the degree that they were teaching other humans to ignore Their return of the Two, so were acting like weeds in the Next Level’s “garden” (earth) would be pulled up, in a sense first. That doesn’t mean all who are dying are the weeds. Not at all the case. But the weeds when they do things to kill other humans so that those humans are their victims as simply accelerating those victims to get what they believed before they die and then the Next Level will sort them into the “box” of their grade in school to be brought back to continue school in a new civilization or be recycled with the current space alien souls and that there would be a new crop of space aliens from the ones who went against TI and DO.
⁠
Do indicated in Beyond Human video series he made that how things may wrap up this civilization might include “thousands of spacecrafts coming in shifts” but coming at different times so it seems we are in the shift of their coming now and they are the ones who are siding with the Luciferian space alien fallen angel souls or spirits. However it may be that the Heaven’s Gate exit as the first coming in shift one and that now it’s time for the second shift being the space alien souls in their spacecrafts wearing hybridized human vehicles grown from stealing human DNA from abductees over many years.
⁠
But DO indicated that the Next Level will still take some Souls but the process to qualify to be saved from recycling involves proving to them we believe in them by working for them sharing this information about them with others – Standing in their Defense and maintaining that Stand and accepting the consequences until we each leave our vehicle. There is no short cutting the needed learning. Exiting by our own hand doesn’t get us anywhere as we need our human vehicles to overcome our humanness through as we need to build strength of Mind to be able to pilot an Next Level provided dense physical body.
⁠
Lots more to this but this is a little nutshell.
⁠
⁠

Critique of Dark Days Dawning Podcast

The podcast is called:

The Heavens Gate Mass Suicide 1997

https://youtu.be/kGbCOoIbsSU

Sawyer’s replies/comments:

No one in the group said or believed that they would be “taking a ride” on the Hale Bopp comet or the reported “companion object”. They said it was “irrelevant” whether there was a companion object. They said the comet was the “marker” of the timing of their exit. Note that anyone who has any belief in Jesus as being from outer space with a message of how to qualify to join his team might want to consider that the comet is what was depicted in the saying of Jesus that follows.

(While I’m at it, here is some evidence that Jesus was an ET because of how he knew ahead of time what would happen on earth to help people wake up more to his reality):

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning((greek astrape – rooted in astra=Star and the “gleam of a lamp” or shining)) cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Most of the comets we see that come close to earth that are labeled “great comets” because they are able to be seen with the naked eye (if one knows where to look), though with Hale Bopp it was even seen with the naked eye while the sun was still up over North America. Plus it was seen traversing from east to west because that’s the path along the ecliptic that the stars follow and it really does look like a star that is moving, though Hale Bopp was also perhaps the biggest comet ever seen.

Now saying that it’s referring to the “Son of Man” coming means He would be returning through taking over a human vehicle (as son=offspring and from man = humans, speaking of the vehicle that was tagged for his usage that TI and DO said about both the vehicles they took that they would have died had they not “tagged” them for their usage.

See, they knew that TI would be coming to pick them up in TI’s spacecraft but they didn’t know whether TI would take their vehicles as well. They thought it might go that way at first but they also came to know over time that it might not go that way as they didn’t think the Next Level had any use for their vehicles. But since TI had left her vehicle, “burned it out” dealing with all the negativity sent to her that people don’t even know happens but people in high profile public places know well of and she certainty was made to look like a dangerous cult leader in 1975 that was reported that way throughout the world. Since DO wanted to “cover his bets” for whatever TI wanted to do, he prepared the students to have a change of clothing and passports and a small amount of money on them. That was in case TI decided to heal their vehicles.

So the “coming” part of that verse may appear to not apply to their exit, but as it turns out it was the Coming of TI at the end of the task that this comet was a marker for, in that context. Here is the definition options for “coming”:

3952 parousia {par-oo-see’-ah}
from the present participle of 3918; TDNT – 5:858,791; n f
AV – coming 22, presence 2; 24
1) presence 2) the coming, arrival, advent 2a) the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God

TI and Do always noted their “coming” paralleled with the coming to perihelion of the great comet Kohoutek which was first sighted in March of 1973 a couple weeks after they left Bourne, TX where they received their first big awakening package of new information. By the end of 1973 is when they were ready to write their book but their car broke down somewhere in St. Louis around december 25th when Kohoutek was at perihelion that led to their eventual arrest as “thieves” (in the night, what TI and DO said meant that they were coming “undercover” (wearing normal human vehicles) to somewhat quietly as possible take Souls away from human existence – what the Luciferian space alien fallen angel souls had laid claim on).

Remember how there was reported in the Book of John if I recall correctly that while the students of Jesus were with him, he physically rose up and was received by a cloud (covering) and that Two People they thought to be “angels” verified to them that this was real and was the way he would always come and go (whether visible or not). So the Cloud was a spacecraft though don’t know how filled with light it was to look like a comet looks though from a greater distance, but actually perhaps a better context is the so called Star of Bethlehem – that may have been a comet as well and/or a spacecraft as a “marker”. By the way in the New Testament when they use the word “sign” it often can be translated to “marker” as well.

Jesus said healing from ingesting a poison could be a sign of a Next Level Member, which since Their students were members of the Next Level in new vehicles to finish their graduation requirements to become adults in the Next Level, still being in a type of children development, this could apply to them that they can perform healings on themselves and others if that was part of the program:

Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Actually this was said in the context of Jesus sending his students out to spread the news of his coming so applies most to them but this can always be the case that the Next Level can help any human they choose to recover from taking in some kind of poison and help them deal with in this example snake bites while a poison can even be something that some in the human kingdom think is medicine but for some it can be deadly. Case in point, the vakkkkkkkks all do kill some who take them – it’s just a small amount and not every humans has caught the eye of a Next Level Representative to get their help with something like that. Plus the point is that “it shall not hurt them”, which can be their vehicle and/or their Mind because a student knows they are not their vehicle but need to use their vehicle to learn their lessons through.

So what happened in this regard, since the space alien fallen angel souls hate to see anyone showing their allegiance to Jesus and his teachings, they set out to discredit them at every turn. That’s why Christians often support wars and some have become molesters of children and other hypocrisies to the Jesus belief/working for. So humans were led to be made fun of with the idea that had some picking up serpents and some drinking poisons thinking Jesus would save them. For all I know the Next Level did help some who drank poison or got bit by a snake, but some they let get very sick and/or die – because even that can be a lesson learned and the Next Level can take anyone’s Soul and save it for a new planting.

But the context of what jesus said could be literal but also works figuratively to where poison is taking in any substance or way of thinking that could result in one losing their vehicle and/or their soul because of those choices, that is if they continued to make those poor choices to put poisons in their body or to go along with “serpents” – the space aliens and their human counterparts and discarnates with their same mindset of seeking to steal souls to their camp/corporation.

So taking up serpents, I believe really meant to override the lower forces attempts to influence us who are TI and DO’s students, like saying “get out of here” (as Jesus said “get behind me satan”) to remove their thoughts and feelings from our consciousness – putting up the “blank cue card” in our mind and even growing to sense their vibration before thoughts even register or fully register.

TELAH stands for The Evolutionary Level Above Human. The recycling hasn’t occurred yet because that’s what happens after the Next Level gives ample opportunity for people who are reaching for the truth about our ultimate purpose here on earth, who the Next Level has helped, to hear about TI and DO’s gateway into the literal Heavens and chose to whom to serve and to whom to die for, between dying for humans or dying for the Next Level Older Members. Either way our human vehicles are going to die. They had the right to die on their terms but they didn’t do so until DO knew his students proved to him and to TI (then outside her vehicle) they were ready, because that was in no way their end but many don’t comprehend that and think it’s religio-spiritual hearsay, but that doesn’t mean it is because some don’t want to even consider it.

The phrase “ascended masters” came about through the Theosophists and was a twisted way of elevating human religionists who took on the reward to themselves but who were often the opposite of having become beginner students and younger members in the Next Level Above Human.

If you took the time to really look into the entire story, what was taught and how they lived you would find out that there was no manipulation or psychological mind control program or other nefarious practices or agenda’s unlike many cults to include the cults that do have those agendas via governments and corporations as we have been witnessing of late to the enth degree. Your jargon sounds intelligent but doesn’t describe what happened in the group but is the attempt of a number of writers to use to explain what DO and Crew chose to do, ignoring the 22 years before then that evidences how they couldn’t in anyones right mind be considered insane, though that has become increasingly easy to see with the increases in technolgies and events that demonstrate the realities they taught that were even foundationally what previous members of the Next Level taught, though became corrupted entirely into religions. Now there is the religion of human science that is what many “believe in” which includes thinking that it makes any sense at all that this planet and it’s life forms came together because of the oxymoron of “random and/or accidental development”

To state that the phrases Kingdom in Heaven and/or kingdom of God is “faulty or false religious literature” is not based on facts. In fact that part of the religious literature has a huge amount of evidence and that evidence extends the most to what started to happen in the late 1940’s with crashes of spacecrafts and bodies that were humanoid but clearly not human in their organ composition as per the autopsy reports provided by Leonard Stringfield who worked for MUFON that he acquired from at least one doctor who leaked the report of the autopsies he performed. Now if all that history that could fill many volumes is ignored of course less of this story would be considered fact, but even that last 70+ years shows how humans can live in at least a tiny degree of outer space in the ISS, a joint effort between the US and EU and Russia and others.

The autopsies reveal on some of the subjects of having no reproductive organs while some had a remnant of reproductive organs. This then corroborates what TI and DO said in 1975 that revealed that Members of the Level Above Human don’t reproduce because for one, they don’t die like human mammals do. And since the crashes also showed a technology that was beyond human then and now, as they still haven’t seemed to perfect their propulsion zero point energy system that Nicoli Tesla documented because the key to such a drive is the elements that are not found on earth and that no one has been able to manufacture though they have been trying , but that they found in one engine that was dismantled and examined by Bob Lazar who was hired to work at a groom lake area 51 military aircraft test base in Nevada. One can ignore all that but my mention here is just the tip of the iceberg of facts that many of because of their enormity of value were leaked on and off over the years. So I’m saying this because these people who came from outer space or from caverns inside the earth’s crust where there has been evidence have existed beyond just the records said to be religious because the religions passed them on in the compilation of the bible do exist. That means the stories from the religions – most all of them by the way even among cultures that had no coordination can easily be shown to have a strong basis in science facts but of course remain the choice for some to pay any attention to at all, just like some believe the earth is flat and/or there was no moon landings and that some think humans create much of the weather. Some humans even think they are the most advanced forms of life in the universe, another oxymoron considering how many humans act now and how limited humans are really – can’t even hardly live past 70 or 80 and still be vibrantly alive.

I’m ignoring your sarcastic comments on this serious subject. Talking about them as if their ideas are science fiction has no weight, especially since what was initially science fiction in this brief earth history turns out to tell the future that was about to be revealed that was often poo pooed at it’s origin in writings and of late in movies. Some tiny examples are the portrayal of people video communicating all over the planet as portrayed by some very early sci fi movies like the Jetsons and others. Then there is the idea of beaming down to a planet from Star Trek. While the method isn’t to deconstruct one’s genetic makeup to reconstruct at the destination, it does bring evidence to the ideas that a living physical being could travel from a flying craft to the earth and back as humans do now which Jesus was documented to have done when he left with his physical body that he proved to many was physical though that became distorted to be a Spirit. However, with what they call 3D printers they can send digital instructions over the air waves, though to be a miracle had we talked about then in the early 1800’s that could reconstruct a blueprint of a physical object in another part of the earth. Also it would have been thought insane and was for a long time to talk about germ theory and then there is the genetic code which is evidence of very detailed intense programming that can even change with repetition and mutation to evolve or devolve. The science of Mind is yet another idea that was way ahead of it’s time as shown by many cultures. So you are missing a whole lot of reality by acting as if science fiction can’t show things that will only be understood in the future. So if one extrapolates that idea to the Book of Revelation it could offer explanation on why many of the prophecies are not made up fanciful stories as some want to believe and have that right to believe but are the communication from a highly advanced physical Level of lifeforms for the purpose of holding school on the planet they engineered into existence for this purpose upon which they also engineered it’s lifeforms but did so in such a way that their reality would only become manifest in each person’s mind according to their openness and desire to see it.

What evidence do you have that supports Members of the group thinking they “needed” to be castrated. I know of that subject in great detail and was pressing DO to allow me to have that procedure if he got instruction to allow it of me. I suggest you read the document entitled Sawyer’s Story on my blog, sawyerhg.wordpress.com for the details of which I speak, though it might be in a document linked to by the Sawyer’s Story document. But it’s also in my book that is posted on my blog as well. Search my blog for “castration” and it should bring it up. If you have trouble I’ll find it for you. I didn’t “need” to be castrated. It wasn’t required either. DO didn’t give that instruction to allow it for over 3 years from when it first came up in around 1987 that DO was considering doing for himself as he was tired of dealing with the hormones that flow through, in this case a male vehicles system that stimulates those desires. Remaining sexual, though part of the human kingdom as a choice doesn’t exist among Members of the Next Level. It’s not a moral issue. It’s practical that to be on a crew with others in the Next Level spacecrafts if one still has that desire in their Minds they will have a type of weakness if it were allowed to graduate while still having those desires. Those desires are not just from hormones but are programming as well, programs because of all the times someone runs that program throughout their life. So getting rid of that chemical production is but an aid that together with the learned self discipline of not wanting to be sexual actually helps someone develop more common sense about what is beyond the human condition where they are quite happy with no sex or reproduction at all. Some of their tasks, by the way are to be on duty observing humans on computer screens as blips of light that get brighter when someone is especially thirsty for learning and growth, yearning to learn what’s real beyond this place which is a lot more than what is really a facsimile created by the lower forces of the planet to keep us as temporary life forms addicted to our sensual passions when we can evolve by choice to no longer have any of the limits humans have.

That’s not true re: your saying they all went to mexico for the procedure. I know of two who went to Boulder Colorado and the first castration I was present for with Lvvody as the surgeon since she was a nurse for an orchiectomist in the US. That was performed in a sterile room set up in a warehouse in San Clemente, CA. However, we put a sign up over the door to that sterile room that said Mexico so at first when I told that story that got reported as happening in mexico. The purpose of the sign was in case someone filed charges against any of us, we could say it was done in Mexico, a type of white lie as we were not doing anything wrong or against anyones will by any stretch of the imagination and even Jesus supported someone castrating themselves for the Kingdom of Heaven’s sake meaning because it would be seen by the Next Level as wanting to give Them all our heart, Mind, Soul and Strength as the Next Level doesn’t need new members so they do make it very difficult while also providing all the help according to the grade in school of the students. The Moses grade in school was like early elementary school while the Jesus classroom was preparing for graduation but that a human who appears to be at the top of the human game is basically in the 6th grade with the object being to get out of all the things they got into by climbing the human ladder. That takes place over generations of potential growth of a Mind. But to graduate one needs to get rid of most all their human desires because then one begins membership in the Next Level with pure goodness which is why so many humans when they would meet the students in various setting mostly really liked them. In some circumstance because of what I hadn’t overcome I wasn’t liked by some I worked with at jobs in the world but that’s part of why I wasn’t permitted to graduate with them.

Wow, the books you get your information from have botched this story. It was true the first castration had a “minor” complication that we didnt’ know at the time was minor but learned about when it was easily fixed when we took Srrody to the hospital. That problem with Srrody’s castration of his vehicle had nothing to do with Srrody’s timing or reason for dying, though he was among the 38 students at Rancho Sante Fe. Do I suspect wen to Mexico but I’m not sure of that but I understood that DO experienced some difficulty from his castration. But the other 5 students to chose to have that procedure were required to leave the group and find an apartment close to where they would have the procedure and to get a job to pay for the procedure, which shows they were acting on their own volition as one can think they were brainwashed by DO which wasn’t at all the case but all who know anything about brainwashing as humans do to one another all the time through the great amounts of propaganda in the mainstream media especially that’s considered normal and true, is that one must continue the brainwashing to keep it effective to the subject. And one must also have the same environment. If DO had them in some spell as some humans claim which is ridiculous to say the least, their living and working someplace far distant from the overall group would be an easy way of breaking any alleged programming. People keep trying to come up with ways of denying the truth that they were exactly who they said and showed that they were so they don’t fit any human molds or models, though many humans act like they do so they write books and all that does is show what they don’t know to the few who sense there is more to this story.

Yes, srrody really enjoyed not having to deal with his vehicles sexualty much anymore but that had nothing to do with his commitment to TI and DO and The Evolutionary Level Above Human (TELAH) as that took place after he’d been with the group since 1975 and I knew him very well and he was as dedicated as I was but more successful in his overcoming than I was.

Another erroneous opinion saying that TI and DO were preaching that the world was against them, as little as they did that, which wasn’t really talked about with everyone until the news broke in 1975 in october which did show how hated they were but they said nothing about that except rarely, many years later, but saying that thinking the world was against them/us had nothing at all to do with my belief and commitment to them and I bet that speaks to the 38 as well though especially I know about for the 24 who I lived with for 19 years in the group. These authors get a free pass to conjure up these opinions and put together with some of the facts, they give the appearance of truth while as skewing it all over the place to their own liking and lack of belief.

The Christian Arts center closed months before 1973 as they had another center for study called Knowplace for a few months after the Christian Arts center and then by 1-1-73 they left the houston area entirely, more or less run out of town by their former friends and family who some thought they were having an affair but there was nothing of the sort happening.

One thing this person said in the podcast that he read from wikipedia caught my interest (as I haven’t visited for a while) that I wanted to know about was when TI’s vehicle, Bonnie Or Bonnie’s husband filed for divorce and why. I don’t doubt that what he read was true that the reason for the divorce was because the husband didn’t like the direction Bonnie was going in her study and experimental practice with what was seen as the occult that had been so demonized by many Christians to explore, including astrology. So it seems the divorce proceeding had little or nothing to do with TI’s vehicle meeting DO’s vehicle, though perhaps that was the last straw for the husband. I know he thought she was having an affair with Herf. I remember DO saying that the husband had threatened Herf, so much so that DO filed a restraining order on the husband so that he wasn’t allowed by law to come anywhere close to Herf. That was all before they left Houston for good on Jan 1, 1973 which was always a date they identified with really starting their task together and that by February they were flooded with information to answer many of their questions, coming to both understand independently of one another (though they compared notes) that they had both come from the literal heavens to bring updates to the bible and to fulfill prophecies. That began their journey to learn what the updates were and what prophecies they were to fulfill which compelled them to study all the materials they could find that led to their examination of the Revelation materials when they had arrived a Gold Beach, OR, staying in a campground on the Rogue River painting rocks to sell to tourists to afford to buy cream to live on eating blackberries they would pick as they grew wild everywhere, which I can attest to when I lived on the Oregon coast north of there. I did a lot of blackberry picking when I visited there in 1995. Recalling that reminds me of the depiction of John the Baptist living off of locusts and wild honey. Doesn’t sound very appetizing to me. I’m much rather have berrys and cream but I guess cream is an animal protein product so it’s what’s available and one is used to. Anyway that’s where they realized that Rev 11 description of Two Witnesses was talking about them, though they didn’t like telling anyone about it because they would run away from individuals who they would meet who would claim to be the reincarnation of Cleopatra or some other biblical figure – even wondering how there seemed to be more than one reincarnation of Cleo. Read ’88 update for more on this.

No DO didn’t realize he (his Soul) was from the Kingdom Above Human while in prison in 1974. He had come to that realization with TI by the time they were in Boerne, Texas after leaving houston on jan 1, 1973 while renting or borrowing a friends ranch house trying to understand what they had to do together. Like I just detailed, it was by mid February of 1973 that he knew his Soul had come from the Kingdom of Heaven to do a task.

By the way they separated the term alien from Members of the Next Level though they understood that some would talk about aliens and Next Level members as the same. The huge difference is that the aliens are the dropouts from a previous relationship and elementary service some Souls had. Those souls were given Next Level vehicles of a type that still allowed them to experience a reverse metamorphosis to function as humans, that Adam experienced when he fell (though recovered) which was the same Soul known to us now as DO, who was also Enoch, Moses, Elijah and Jesus (according to TI) and according to DO, TI was his Heavenly Father, Jehovah and Elohim throughout that time that he referred to as his Older Member who fathered him into membership in the Next Level.

The Two Witness prophecy they were fulfilling never said the world would be destroyed and TI and DO said the earth was still a good planet to be used by the Next Level as a garden again after it is refurbished because humans have destroyed it’s further use as a beginning garden. They didn’t think anything that had become good on earth would be wasted and they felt there was more goodness in the world than badness though there are less people who are growing to be good by acting in humanitarian ways towards one another.

There were never 200 members because there was no membership in anything for the first 9 months in 1975-6. I gave that estimate to media in 1997 as being the general amount of people who traveled with the groups for that 9 month period until TI closed the “harvest” on April 21, 1976, though told us to finish the public meetings we had already set up to do. Most of those dropped out while on the road. One could say there were about 100 members but after a few months together in the summer of 1976 TI and Do told 19 of those members they weren’t seeming to be serious enough so they split them out of the group and told us who remained that we “made the first cut”. After several years without them, 2-4 of those 19 later found the group and wanted to rejoin and did and were among the 38 in 1997. I don’t know where the 88 number came from. The only use of the number 88 that I know about was the document DO wrote entitled ’88 Update – The UFO Two and Their Crew which he wrote in 1988 and sent to a bunch of UFO researchers in an early attempt to see if they were the type of people who they would make a bigger effort to go public to again as we did nothing with the public from July of 1976 to 1992.- 17 years in seclusion with no new membership and were down to 24 students then but as we went public some dropouts rejoined in 1993 and then again after 9 months of public meetings about another 12 joined but then some dropped out so it went back down to 38 students with some who wanted to be in the class but kept having a pull back into the world. I left in september of 1994.

Rod and Judy, my best friends before joining in september of 1975 did not give Judy’s two young children to “friends” as you just reported/read. They went to stay with their biological dad who lived near Portland so they weren’t left with any less care than many many children from parents who were divorced. However, I don’t know what happened to them since then but I do know their names were Noah who was over 1 year old and jennifer who was about 5 in september of 1975. Ron is seen in some documentaries as Aaron as he and Judy joined but didn’t stay more than some months at most.

The reason Children couldn’t join was because they aren’t mature enough having had little to no experience in the world to choose to no longer partake in the world. This is one of many clear examples of why Heaven’s Gate stands alone from all other organizations on earth (combined with many reasons to say that) because they had good reasons – even common sense reasons for everything they did even though they didn’t attempt to explain themselves because they were never trying to attract great numbers of students. In fact more students made their job that much harder so instead the sought to filter out those who they felt couldn’t go the distance to graduation because believe it or not it was hard to stay in the group and yet they wanted everyone to stay and yet we didn’t necessarily know it was hard to stay because there was no real carrot – stick motivation, no punishments, no guilting, no pressure from fellow students as it’s true we stopped socializing for years but after TI left those socializing procedures were relaxed from what they were which DO said was because we didn’t need the stricter rules anymore so they were relaxed thereafter which is contrary to what Frank said in the Heaven’s Gate podcast saying after TI left her vehicle he said Do became more controlling. I confronted him for examples and he could give me none because it was a narrative he had formed in his head only because he wanted to justify leaving is my guess based on what DO said about some of those who chose to leave – they would have to justify it to themselves somehow.

Completely wrong. In fact after I left in 1994 their library grew a lot as I know people who have become book collectors. After I left I doubt they spent much time at all on the bible. For the first 10 years I don’t think hardly anyone including myself looked at a bible. We had a handful in our library by 1980, but there was only one bible lesson given and that was by DO while TI was in her vehicle but didn’t come to that meeting. He told us to bring whatever bibles we had to the meeting and said to open it to Revelation 12:1 where he said that TI was the “woman” and that the Dragon was speaking of Lucifer who he preferred to call Satan in case someone had that name of Lucifer or Lucy which he thought was a beautiful name. TI said that Lucifer was still loved by the Next Level but the problem was that Lucifer fell out of love with his Older Member and by love I’m talking about plutonic love, the highest form. Do started us optionally reading the bible without telling us what to read for whoever wanted to do so, in 1987 because he was starting to feel that TI was giving instruction from outside her vehicle since he still felt her close contact with her, to go public again and he was exploring how to go public, with what terminology, generic or religio-spiritual though he preferred generic because it was more accurate since the Next Level are real and not religious as the religions had all become “killers of souls” because people would get addicted to feeling pious and saved and going to heaven in some form and ceased observing – being open to how Jesus would return that without recognizing could miss it entirely because they are so glued to the past lesson plan. If they would take the time to learn about all TI and DO taught and not get freaked out by their own limitations that they largely got from Paul who was influenced by the lower forces then they would see that TI and Do fulfill all the same lessons and plans and recognition of the Next Level that Jesus brought but then had a bunch more to say that were the updates and the way the prophecies would be fulfilled. After I left the group I documented how all the prophecies from Jesus and most of what’s in the Revelation material are being fulfilled by TI and Do’s presence and in the time after they left especially. I can show perhaps the best interpretations and translations of words because of the time I spent learning from TI and DO – I got a bunch of insights. Most of that I received is still available to anyone and it’s all free of charges, over 900 audio tapes and 15 or so video’s and many writings from TI, from DO and from their students.

Interesting that ten turner said there were too many people anyway – a huge confession as it turns out that he would appear to have eugenic thinking like Bill Gates and Bill Gates dad have/had that’s well documented. They don’t mind getting rid of humans who they determine are ‘nuts”. That is the state of the world displayed very well here. And his wife Jane Fonda was a big anti war activist which in my own little way I was too over vietnam and then in Iraq, but this view that they as humans have the objectivity and science knowledge to judge there are too many people anyway shows how little consciousness he had at that time (though perhaps he’s changed). There is no evidence how many people could live peacefully on this planet even if all of them are burning oil like crazy. Thinking there is no Next Level in charge here is even silly. If someone told me when I was young that the automobile came about by accidental development, and oxymoron even at a very young age I would have disagreed or even laughed. I know that because at 7 years old I asked my parents and other parents in the room where babies came from and they weren’t prepared for that question so gave no answer and when I got no answer after a minute I put my hands up in the air and shrugged my shoulders and said, “well things don’t just happen”. And if we know that the human inventions didn’t just happen on their own somehow how can we say that the complicated yet simple designs of the elements needed to construct all the inventions “just happened to come into existence” by some random mutations over millions of years. There are planets where things can evolve but it’s not on their own. They need to be stimulated and that involves many stages but the earth isn’t an example of a true evolutionary garden because the Next Level took out the missing links so humans couldn’t intelligently show all the stages in evolution.

Do’s vehicle was estranged from his former wife and children subsequently I think years before DO met TI, as I understand it but could be wrong about, largely because for a while he was a closeted homosexual and had at least one affair with a college aged student where he taught music that got him fired claiming that he had emotional problems, I suppose because he was seen as emotionally disturbed because he was gay. We know that many humans are of that mindset and especially at a catholic or whatever denomination runs St. Thomas University in Houston where he worked.

I hope Do’s vehicles son talks to God the Father in Heaven – out among the stars and asks about his vehicles dad and is then receptive to what will come that will challenge him. Many who take such a position don’t ask Their Heavenly Father about things that would upset their world view. I know that from experience. It’s similar for Terrie or was as who knows how either of them may have changed so I’m rooting for both of them to wake up some. But what comes to mind was something Jesus said that I believe DO referred to once where he said, “a prophet is not without honor except in their own family”. They have a harder time seeing their relative as something special in this regard. For one the lower forces don’t want anyone to see the truth. But that doesn’t mean things can’t change. We can all change until we lose our vehicle and then we are set and the Next Level will decide how to sort Spirits and Souls into boxes, saved for a future planting and new classroom in a new civilization that they might choose to grow towards graduation from – the only true future the human kingdom can have because the human kingdom was created to be a stepping stone into Membership in the Next Level Above Human where is the only place where true Life exists because they don’t die anymore as hard as that is to imagine but makes perfect sense that this grand planet and these magnificent life forms, our vehicle were created for a reason that is even more magnificent.

We are against suicide for people now as we need our vehicles to learn lessons through. I have tried to talk at least three people from commuting suicide. All three were saying they were miserable in this world but that’s because they weren’t choosing to work for TI and DO. They were influenced to think suicide was a quick fix because the classmembers left seemingly with that label from much of the world. That’s the same thinking as has been taught to millions who believe when they die, if they believe in some savior and they abide by a few rules that when they die they will live happily ever after with that savior and they have bought an illusion. Dying gets one nothing but the spirit world and that’s not better than living though one may think it is because they won’t have those problems anymore because all they will be is a program on the loose that can’t change because we need a vehicle to change our programs to be better programs, programs that can lead to becoming a Member of the Next Level to establish and grow our Mind to run. So death is meaningless to growth but it’s all about who we die for. If we die for fellow humans (not counting those who kill a bunch of people they say for other humans) like lets say by rushing into a burning building to save someone’s life as we die in the process I bet the Next Level swoops up that Spirit or soul and knows they can become Next Level material as they acted against their vehicles programming to live at any cost which means they were applying what was Next Level perspectives that death of the vehicle doesn’t determine death of the soul. Jesus talked about this but of course some people think that was all a made up story to control people. That’s ironic because the story of jesus that many Christians tell is where the made up story is. Like saying he wants us to be successful and even wealthy and have big families and give of our abundance to the church and be born again in their beliefs when all those thoughts are dead ends to Next Level Membership in the real Kingdom of Gods in the Kingdom of/in the literal Heavens – the elevated areas above the earth. Like jesus said “no man takes it from me” speaking of his life in the human vehicle he took over. He said he has the authority to lay it down and the authority to take it up again BECASE he goes to the Father, his Older Member who is more real and alive than any human because He is out of human time and limitations. It’s like a human being able to observe the entire life span of an ant and can observe all their choices and knows what they don’t know. That’s what it’s like for Members of the Next Level but not quite the same as with humans and ants but I say that to get the concept across I hope. To the Next Level we are like horses that are wild and the Next Level captures us by telling us the truth about our reality that some knew was the case but hadn’t remembered it in this lifetime. So the horses that then receive the new training either buck and try to throw the rider in which case the rancher lets them go back into their world to run with their herd. But the ones who learn to respect their riders end up loving serving and all the perks of even feeling a part of the ranchers family. Ti and Do also used that analogy with dogs. My experience with TI and DO was phenomenally totally filled with goodness but not saccharine goodness like we see coming from governments and religions and some people that’s really about their selves at the expense of others.

So I agree that any group that teaches us to hurt our vehicles or another’s vehicle is a group to get out of. But in TI and DO’s group we weren’t taught to hurt ourselves physically or mentally or to do so to anyone else but it’s very obvious to all of us that we will eventually leave this world and some leave at a very young age and others at what we think is an old age. The church used to teach that laying down our own vehicles life for any reason was an original sin that one would go to hell for, yet no where is that taught and especially not taught by Jesus. They would even say that euthenasia was wrong. They’d rather have someone live as a vegetable and/or with on quality of life while their loves ones are miserable with and not going on with their lives than allowing them to exit when they want to. We are against suicide.

Critique of Daily Mail article 12-15-2019

Here is an article that seems to be something reconfigured from the past to which I have followed with my commentary as there are many things said that are misleading and even outright wrong, so read them with a grain of salt until you read what I have to say about it, if you want to get a more objective picture of what’s true. To go right to what I wrote search for Sawyer:

Ex-Heaven‘s Gate members still ‘connect‘ with 39 victims
https://stockdailydish.com/ex-heavens-gate-members-still-connect-with-39-victims/
Posted by SDD Contributor on December 15, 2019 at 9:26 am

EXCLUSIVE – ‘We still connect to the Next Level‘: Surviving members of Heaven‘s Gate cult say they are in with 39 victims of mass-suicide who all believed they‘d be ‘transported to a higher level in a spaceship‘ 20 years ago.

When first responders answered a 911 call to an upmarket suburban California home on March 26, 1997, they could never have expected the shocking scene that awaited them: 39 bodies, carefully arranged, laid out under purple sheets, each person’s feet bedecked with trendy black Nike sneakers.

The unforgettable crime scene images would soon be seared into the public consciousness as it emerged that the deaths were the result of a mass suicide by a cult known as Heaven’s Gate – who believed they were travelling by space ship to a higher level. Videos recorded by wide-eyed leader Marshall Applewhite, 65, are still instantly recognizable 20 years later – as academics, the public and authorities still wonder about the largest mass suicide on US soil.

The website for the group, which ran a web design company, remains active to this day, maintained by two surviving members who provide information to people curious about the Heaven’s Gate beliefs – although they insist, as the 20th anniversary of the deaths approaches Sunday, that the group does not persist.

‘The Group came to an end in March, 1997,’ they wrote in an email to DailyMail. ‘There is nothing to join but the information is timeless.’

When asked whether they were still connected to or in with their deceased former comrades, however, they said: ‘Yes, we are still connected to the Next Level, when they are’ – without elaborating.

The website masters are reportedly a couple who left to get married, which was against Heaven’s Gate rules, but retained their association – and shared beliefs – with the group, even allegedly fighting to take possession of the items the late members left behind. They refused to confirm this information to DailyMail or divulge any other personal details. They did, however, say that they look forward to being reunited on another ‘level’ with the members who departed this world in 1997.

‘We hope to have the opportunity sometimes in the future but we do not know when that will happen,’ they told DailyMail. ‘Probably in our next reincarnation on this planet.

‘The simple understanding is that there is a real, physical level above the humans one here on earth. It is not a spiritual existence. It is real individuals, in real bodies, in real crafts taking care of the issues of their planet. The Next Level, as it is called, created this planet and all the life on it. The Next Level are the care takers of not only this planet but all the systems of the universe.

‘From that, all the other understandings follow. They periodically come down to this planet to check in on this civilizations development. The last time they took a very close up observation, in human form, was from about 1972 to 1997. The time before that was 2000 years ago. At those times they talk to those interested about the opportunity of the Next Level and how a very select few can enter into it only after a long period of transition and instruction.’

And while the cult’s unorthodox belief system and mass suicide shocked the world in 1997, it had been decades in the making.

The cult first began when Applewhite, a divorced father-of-two and son of a preacher who had tried his hand at everything from acting to running a deli, met nurse and middle-aged mother-of-four Bonnie Nettles in Houston in the early 1970s. They shared an immediate bond over their mutual interest in both biblical theology and the occult, and they began cobbling together their own belief system – eventually deciding that they were the ‘two witnesses’ mentioned in the Book of Revelation. They believed they were prophets for a God who was really an advanced extraterrestrial, that individuals could advance to an evolutionary level above human, and that the world would one day be ‘recycled.’ The pair believed that Jesus had been sent on a similar mission by this same celestial being.

On New Year’s Day, 1973, they set off across the country to share their beliefs and eventually garner hundreds of followers from across a vast socioeconomic and geographic spectrum. They left their former lives behind, including their respective children; during their initial travels, they ran out of money and would stop at blood banks for cash or routinely skip out on bills. At one point, Applewhite spent six months in jail in Missouri for auto theft after renting a car and simply driving off with it – before Do and Ti eventually disavowed stealing.

They distributed fliers and even took out newspaper ads as they continued their cross-country proselytizing mission, picking up followers along the way. The group would shift in name, belief system and number over the years, but always under the leadership of Applewhite and Nettles, who called themselves Pig and Guinea, Bo and Peep and, most famously, Do and Ti – in a fantastically close, platonic relationship. At one recruitment meeting in Los Angeles, they reportedly said: ‘We are The Two prophesied in Revelation. God has sent us here as an experiment, so you might call us Guinea and Pig.’

Members were kept to strict regiments as the group moved across the country, sometimes living at campsites, other times renting houses with funds often taken from a follower’s trust fund. Anyone joining was required to leave behind family, friends and possessions (although the trust fund made the cut) and to abstain from sex, drugs and other worldly pleasures; by the time of his death, Applewhite and several other male members had been voluntarily castrated. Everything was regulated, from their communal clothes – including underwear – to the length of their bathing time (six minutes using one gallon of water) to the size of their pancakes. They were allowed to work regular jobs in their areas of specialties outside the commune, however, generating more funds for the cult – and at the time of the suicides ran a computer company.

Applewhite and Nettles believed they would be killed for their beliefs and rise again three and a half days later in a ‘cloud’ or UFO, after which the world would be destroyed.

The group was never targeted or threatened by the government or anyone else, however, skewing their predictions of achieving resurrection through murder. Nettles instead died from cancer in 1985, again shaking the core belief system. Applewhite altered his ideas and came up with a new revelation after astronomers sighted the Hale-Bopp comet and, in November 1996, a photo emerged which appeared to show an object trailing in its wake. Applewhite announced this was a spaceship which would pick up the remaining followers if they cast aside their earthly bodies.

At the mansion the group then shared in Rancho Santa Fe, California, a suicide pact was formed.

Over three days, the members consumed a mixture of vodka and phenobarbital poison with pudding or apple sauce, then tied plastic bags over their heads. Each was dressed in black shirts and sweat pants, brand new black-and-white Nike Decade sneakers and armbands reading ‘Heaven’s Gate Away Team.’ The bodies all had a five dollar bill and three quarters in their pockets along with packed luggage at their sides.

As each shift of followers died, the remaining members removed the plastic bags and arranged the bodies before taking their own lives. The final death shift consisted of two members, left with no one to remove the bags or neatly array the bodies.

The victims ranged in age from 26 to 72. Some had been in the group for 22 years; others had left and come back when their outside world lives hit speed bumps or they simply continued to feel the Heaven’s Gate pull; others had been members for just a few years. Some were parents who, like Applewhite and Nettles, had left behind their children. Some members were dreamers and drifters, while the occupations of others ranged from bus driver to ex-paratrooper to paralegal to journalist.

They were discovered by another Heaven’s Gate member, Rio Di Angelo, who had planned to be the 40th body discovered in the mass suicide – right up until a few weeks beforehand, when he claims to have woken up with a feeling that he had something yet to do on Earth. So he left with the Applewhite’s blessing, he said, and after the suicides received a package with a videotapes and a map to the home where he would find them. He got a ride to Rancho Santa Fe, went inside and then alerted authorities.

The group had planned meticulously before they ingested the fatal concoction, making ‘exit’ videos explaining why they were making the decision – as well as preparing a press release for the media.

‘By the time you receive this, we’ll be gone – several dozen of us,’ it read. ‘We came from the Level Above Human in distant space and we have now exited the bodies that we were wearing for our earthly task, to return to the world from whence we came – task completed. The distant space we refer to is what your religious literature would call the Kingdom of Heaven or the Kingdom of God.

‘We came for the purpose of offering a doorway to the Kingdom of God at the end of this civilization, the end of this age, the end of this millennium. We came from that Level, that time, that space, and entered this one. And in so doing, we had to enter human bodies – which we did, for the most part, in the mid-seventies.

‘Now it was time for us to leave those bodies (vehicles) – bodies that we borrowed for the time we were here (by previous arrangement) for this specific task. The task was not only to bring in information about that Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human, but to give us the experience of working against the forces of what the human evolutionary level, at this time, has become. And while it was a good learning experience for us, it also gave all who ever received knowledge from that Kingdom an opportunity to recognize us and this information, and to even move out of the human level and into the Next Level or the Next Evolutionary Level, the “Kingdom of Heaven,” the Kingdom of God.

‘The Kingdom of God, the Level Above Human, is a physical world, where they inhabit physical bodies. However, those bodies are merely containers, suits of clothes – the true identity (of the individual) is the soul or mind/spirit residing in that ‘vehicle’. The body is merely a tool for that individual’s use – when it wears out, he is issued a new one.

‘No one can enter the Kingdom of Heaven by trying to live a good life in this world, and then, thinking that when this world’s life takes your body, you get to “go to heaven.” The only time that Next Kingdom can be entered is when there is a Member or Members of that Kingdom who have come into the human kingdom, incarnated as we have, offering clarification of that information.’

The website maintainers told DailyMail that they had been in the group for 12 years and ‘joined immediately after attending a meeting that Ti & Do held. Their truth was undeniable.’

They said interest continues in the group’s complicated belief system mixing traditional theology with its sci-fi-esque tenets.

‘We get an average of about 10-12 emails a day,’ they said. ‘They come from all over the world. We sell several books a year and give away about 40 or so free VHS tape sets. There is no dominate geographic area. More tapes and books go out domestically because of the cost of shipping internationally. The demos on this are very diverse.’

Survivor Rio Di Angelo, who was selected to discover the Heaven’s Gate bodies, also continues to espouse the group’s beliefs and remains in occasional with the website moderators, they say. To coincide with the tenth anniversary of the suicides in 1997, he released a statement, insisting: ‘I’m glad to be alive and planning to stay that way. I have a wonderful life with purpose. I am alive NOT because I rejected anything about Heaven’s Gate. I am alive because I have discovered something so extraordinarily important to the world that it needs to be passed on to you in its most true and accurate form from ME.’

He went on to explain the tenets of Heaven’s Gate, saying: ‘When there is a Representative from the Level Above Human (Heaven) here on Earth, you will be drawn to Him and His mission. You then will be taught the final lessons in a type of finishing school. These important lessons enable you to know how to create a Soul. A Soul is different than a Spirit. A human Spirit is Earth bond only. A Soul is “you” conscientiously choosing to evolve into a new creature that has the non-human ingredient needed for transition into the Level Above Human.

‘That Representative becomes your teacher and is the only one who can usher you into the higher level of existence. He knows how because He’s done it before.

‘This is my understanding of the mission that Jesus started. This is why He was here and said he would return.’

Confirming his three-year membership in Heaven’s Gate, he said: ‘I know everything worth knowing about them and I can say with absolute, undeniable certainty, that Heaven’s Gate was indeed “The Second Coming of Jesus.”’

He said: ‘I am against suicide and so was the group. What happened to Heaven’s Gate was an “EXIT,” “The end of the Spirit reincarnation process and the beginning of life as a Soul in the Level Above Human.”

‘They “EXITED” their bodies (vehicles) and are now with their Guide and Teacher in the Spirit world (the Valley of the Shadow of Death) helping mis-guided Spirits before their ascension.

‘I am here to bring you the truth and to clarify information for you to examine. Also, to help with understanding the next steps, after the “Second Coming,” if that is your choice. I am not here to convince you to do anything or to believe any of this. If it speaks to you, use it. If not, go on.’

***********
Sawyer’s critique:
***********

These are my corrections and additional explanations to this article.

1) There are no “surviving members of the Heaven’s Gate cult.” There are only former student members like myself and others and like these two webmasters who are managing the web site. All former members are dropouts who failed to make the steep qualifying grade to have remained in the group, though at the time we each left the group, whether voluntarily or not, because these two were dismissed because they didn’t want to follow the instructions and lesson step that was labeled “I could be wrong” that was designed to eliminate one’s dependence upon self by recognizing that wherever a decision needs to be made, one’s opinion might be wrong, relative to what the teachers TI and DO would choose to do.

This is a lesson to learn because working in a crew on a physical spacecraft laboratory of different kinds and sizes, with some as large as planets, Next Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human Members are crew minded and they love it (just like many humans love being part of a great team). DO described the crews as being like a Star Trek crew minus human behaviors and ways, thus no sexuality as they don’t procreate (nor die) nor are there gender roles or comparisons because they have no gender. They have outgrown gender and sexuality both in their Mind and in any kind of identity with the human physical vehicles they took over while a student working towards Next Level Membership. Ti and Do referred to a human vehicles sexual and/or gender identifications as “plumbing.”

This stating of “I could be wrong” designed to use a phrase like that in front of or behind or in the middle of any statement of opinion was the lesson step mechanism that by exercising was overriding the vehicles self confidence in it’s opinion and that lesson step was not something these webmasters wanted to abide by so DO had each of the student in the group at that time express to these two that they were being dismissed from the classroom until such time that they wanted to abide by that lesson step, when they could return. Their choice to not abide by it was not any worse relative to those Classroom teachings as my choice to not accept DO’s help because of the way I gave into sexuality with myself that I wasn’t conquering to the degree I needed to, to qualify to graduate into the Next Level. Each dropout had their own lesson step they didn’t choose to work on at the time they were in the classroom. The only difference between these two webmasters and some others was that they didn’t directly choose to leave the classroom where I did and others did over the years. (However, there were 19 students who Ti and Do sent out of the larger classroom unit that numbered at the time about 100 students, which happened in the fall of 1976. Some of those found the Classroom again in the early 1980’s by seemingly coincidental circumstances, so rejoined then).

Since these Two still believed in TI and DO as their Older Members from the Next Level, but didn’t want to rejoin when they were given the option in 1994 that I witnessed, when DO was ready to leave he asked them if they wanted to do some tasks for them. They didn’t know at the time what they were planning. I did know of the planned exit, as DO brought up the premise of taking it upon ourselves to exit our vehicles (by our own hand) directly in late August of 1994 after we finished about 9 months of public meetings across the U.S., after having increased our numbers by almost double the 24 members we were down to by mid 1993. (However some left after that so the numbers ended up at 38 students plus 4 who laid down their vehicles lives in the year or two after the large body of student did with DO in March of 1997.

Yes it was the Souls of the vehicles who upon completion of their task of overcoming the behaviors and ways of the human kingdom – aka taking full control over the vehicles they had a hand in choosing from the vehicles birth that would be taken on board a spacecraft that was close on hand. However, they all preferred for it to go a different way, they said which is why they packed bags for travel and had a tiny bit of money on each of their possession in case TI (DO’s Older Member, aka DO’s Heavenly Father in religious terms) chose to take them with their human vehicles, like in case TI wanted them to do a task somewhere else on earth that required having a human vehicle. DO didn’t know what other usage TI would have for their human vehicles since it’s the Soul that graduates into Next Level Membership. Ti and Do had taught years before, even in the late 1970’s that another way they might exit the task is by the Next Level taking our human vehicles and putting them on a table on a spacecraft next to the new Next Level dense physical vehicle they were going to be awarded for their efforts so the Soul could be moved into the new vehicle. By the way the New physical vehicle would not be one made of human like flesh. It would be grown on a vine to adulthood (as there are no children vehicles in the Next Level). Another way they talked about exiting our vehicles could have been by their being killed by humans who hated them for what they were teaching, like an irate Christian who could see them as antichrist, though they would be totally wrong as what Ti and Do taught and did was 100% in line with everything Jesus taught.

Jesus instructed his closest students that they must lay down their vehicles lives while in service to Him and His Older Member (Heavenly Father) He was operating as One with, though his Older Member (named TI this time) was a different person. He described their doing so in the same way He was demonstrating by telling the truth about the Next Level’s reality to those who didn’t want to hear the updates who as they hated Him would also hate them for speaking.

Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Here Jesus was talking in such a way that today if heard people would say he was promoting suicide. Humans think that humans killed Jesus and they did but only killed his human vehicle and weren’t able to kill his Soul that then healed the vehicle enough to demonstrate that it wasn’t a spirit his students saw. TI said that it was characteristic for a Member of the Next Level (Soul) to heal a human vehicle that became damaged in 3 1/2 human days if that’s the task they had to do. TI didn’t have that task as TI knew from the beginning that she was here to get DO started and then would go back. When TI would tell him this in their early years together he wondered what she meant by going back. They at first thought they would go back together. DO said he couldn’t imagine TI was meaning she would go back to be with her human family again. So at the time he put that idea on the back burner. When her vehicle died and TI didn’t try to heal it DO knew then what she was referring to – her return to her Next Level station on a spacecraft to oversee the completion of the task DO was to finish without his Older Member’s physical presence. TI’s exit is demonstrated in Revelation 12 as DO told us the Woman was TI and as is described about TI’s exit would occur by the “earth opening it’s mouth,” an old expression for going into the grave/dying.

So DO was preparing for whatever option Ti chose to take and as we know that ended up being allowing them to go through that difficult step of laying down their vehicles to the vehicles death – all knowing that they were not their vehicles, knowing because of previous experiences of those Souls that were with Jesus (DO’s previous incarnate task) that the death of the human vehicle was not the death of the Soul. To humans without that experience it seemed like they were committing suicide but to them suicide would have been to not go with the instructions DO received from TI on how to exit when the time was determined to do so. DO and Crew wrote that They taught that for a human to kill their own vehicle is much different as humans as well as TI and DO’s classroom members needed their human vehicles to learn lessons through but that they were done with their lessons.

They wrote that for a human to commit suicide was wrong, a waste because they didn’t want to deal with hard lessons would be short circuiting their progress towards graduating into the Next Level at a future time. It doesn’t mean that someone in the human kingdom who commits suicide does not get saved for another lesson time, but by committing suicide they flunked out learning all the lessons they needed to learn.

2) Saying ‘We still connect to the Next Level’ if that’s all they said about it, is misleading. There is no direct connect. At best it’s like picking up the telephone and knowing Their address/phone number – in this case, the distant deep space “heavens” and knowing who they are trying to contact – TI and DO, and leaving a “voicemail” asking a question or asking for strength to conquer an addiction or asking to learn the truth about something or asking how to be of greater service and then hanging up and then putting out a repeated effort to discover/identify answers to those questions that mostly will come through what are seen as normal human channels, like in the news or from people we know or don’t know, or by having an ideas of something to do or try that might yield answers. Answers would never be something that would harm ourselves or anyone else in any way to do but will always be things to do that are reversible and even be things that may show us that we asked the wrong question or could show us that what we were asking for is not really what we want and/or need. When They respond to us, we can have a sense of their reply through these ordinary channels but we won’t be certain it’s Them responding. There won’t be voices in one’s head telling us to do or not do something though one can have a feeling in that regard. I believe it is possible when asking to get a sense of an answer right away.

This is also applicable to anyone. Jesus taught it as the Lords Prayer, meant to be an outline of how to talk to the Next Level (Kingdom of God, Kingdom in the literal heavens). It was meant to be a private petition for help in some way not to be made into group prayers that just bolster people’s sense of being holy in appearances.

Now if someone doesn’t know the “address” (deep outer space) or to whom they are seeking an answer from, as Jesus instructed directing our petition to “our Father in the heavens” there are any number of spirits – discarnate – deceased human minds that love to step in to be someones’ “god” or “jesus” because they died believing they were in that role to other humans as intercessors so they continue to try to operate in that way in the discarnate condition. That’s why we hear of people saying Jesus or God told me to do it, even some horrible harming of another human being. An answer would never be inconstant with the behaviors and ways taught by the Next Level through their incarnate servants over the millennium, mostly through Moses and Jesus in this current civilization but potentially through a different part of the experiment as seen in Hinduism and/or Buddhism for example.

3) It was a purple shawl draped over each of the deceased vehicles of those Students not a sheet. That event was about the only time over my experience of being with them for 19 years that symbolism was used in that direct kind of way for the sake of those who would discover their vehicles. They didn’t spell out what the various symbolism was in the use of the Nike (slogan: Just DO It) sneakers. By the way the word “nike” in the New Testament Greek, means, “to overcome, conquer, gain victory over” the human kingdom “world” as Jesus taught was required for everyone who was to experience a “Spirit/Mind Birth” which is what I believe we all were witnessing happening.

4) It’s a misguided opinion without evidence for the writer of this article to say it was a “crime scene”. The San Diego Chief of police and the coroners office both said there was no evidence of fowl play. It’s was eerie for them but peaceful and they left a number of statements and video footage “exit video’s” where most all of the student members of the group said something about what they were about to do and how it was joyous to do so (as hard as that is for many to  accept, I can attest that they were telling the truth about the way they felt and how DO carefully spent years making sure each student was fully cognizant of what they were doing. There was no coercion, no pressure, no guilting, no carrot held before them (in a way that was a lure). In fact it was contrary to that. It was hard to stay in the group though not because the difficulty was that apparent, except for those that had doubts they didn’t choose to combat. There is a great deal to say about this, some of which is outlined in my blog post:

https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2017/10/20/pineapple-press-heavens-gate-podcast-comments-by-sawyer/

5) The “higher level” was described by TI and DO as The Evolutionary Level Above Human, The Kingdom Level Above Human and in short The Next Level. It was compared to the human evolutionary level scientifically (physically and mentally) with the way there is on earth a Mineral Kingdom, Plant Kingdom, Animal Kingdom and Human Kingdom to where the Human Kingdom was not the end of “evolution” (not Darwinian evolution). They taught that the human kingdom was designed to be a “stepping stone” into membership in the Next Level. They described the Next Level as physical and many membered but not as many members as in the human kingdom. They said their numbers were in the thousands. Members are actually graduate Souls. A Soul is a container that is of a plasma like physical consistency (unlike a Spirit that is etheric – a frequency construct). Souls are deposited into selected human vehicles that were picked to be a match for a returning Soul’s lesson requirements to qualify to graduate the human kingdom. There are different types of souls and all souls that are deposited don’t survive the process to graduate. One type of Soul is deposited in selected human vehicles who are going to host a returning Soul that had grown some in a previous incarnation while with an incarnate Older Member like Moses and/or Jesus, while another type of soul is deposited for a first timer entering the program during the time when one or more Older Members is in the flesh (incarnate).

There are humans right now, following the 1997 exit who have received Souls, perhaps even one of either type who are able to take their next step towards graduation that wouldn’t take the shape of laying down their human vehicles by their own hand because the Older Member isn’t physically present anymore to know whether that is right for them to do. That’s why Suicide isn’t supported by the Next Level as we need to have our human vehicles to proceed with our overcoming lesson steps that are right for us now. Suicide for us would be not taking advantage of the opportunity to learn difficult lessons while in the human kingdom. No matter how someone dies their spirit and/or soul is judged by the Next Level as to when and where their next opportunity to graduate will be. Next Level Members are very fair but it’s never a human vehicle that graduates into Next Level membership. It’s always the Soul that graduates. Upon entrance into Next Level membership, each graduate is awarded a newly grown dense physical vehicle (not dense like human flesh is dense) that is grown on a vine (like a plant) to maturity. There are no children vehicles in the Next Level though there are Older and Younger Members. Time is not the determination of Old or Young. Experience is what defines an Older or Younger Member. Members don’t wear their experience like humans do, like in the military with hash marks and ranks but Members can recognize an Older Member among them as it’s a quality of Mind they feel. I can relate to that in what I felt from TI and DO. It wasn’t what they said that identified them to me as Above and Beyond Human (though that was part of the conscious recognition). I subconsciously felt their Above Human Stature. That can be explained as the Soul having both been helped to have that recognition and/or having gained that recognition from a previous lifetime of experience with an incarnate Older Member. Souls come with a “chip of recognition” (like a computer chip that has certain programs that provide a certain amount of identification of what is true – what makes sense that another human may not have or may not have awakened to yet but that anyone who wants to have it can be given if they ask for it, so no one is left out from growing towards Next Level Membership).

6) Some media have reported that the ones running the Heavensgate website were “surviving members” but that was an erroneous way of describing them. To be a surviving member means they would have left the human kingdom with the 39. Those left behind by their own choices (including me) are not necessarily going to survive the recycling. TI did say that all [Souls] who came back with them would return to the Next Level’s keeping to have another opportunity to be in a human or human equivalent kingdom to finish their overcoming process. That might take the shape of being “saved” “on ice” DO called it, though said that wasn’t literal ice. It’s true there is no group anymore though there are new believers who DO left instructions for how to grow further with the overall requirement to be “saved” from the upcoming recycling being:

“In order to get saved for further planting, the overriding requirement is to recognize that this is true (these are the facts).  You must believe that we represent the Kingdom that created this planet and all of its inhabitants.  And you must be willing to take a stand in defense of that belief, and sustain that stand until the end – your departure – regardless of the consequences.”

This is not the complete formula to qualify for graduation into significant or elementary service in the Next Level after a student’s vehicle dies. That formula is stated as:

“The formula is the same now as it always has been.  To begin a metamorphosis in order to be born into the Next World, you must abandon everything of this world (just as the caterpillar about to become a butterfly must do).  You must separate and begin to wean yourself of all mammalian ways – ties and addictions – replacing them with the ways and behavior of a more advanced and refined level of life.  You cannot do it by yourself.  You must seek, to the best of your ability, the guidance of a Representative who is a member of that kingdom, who has been through the metamorphic process at a previous time, and who has been sent with the specific task of midwifing newborns.  Or, at very least, you attempt to connect with an active “student” of a present Representative.  This is an extremely rare opportunity, as we approach the End of the Age.  There is a tiny remnant left of a window for catching the eye of the “caretakers of this world.”

(These quotes came from the Heaven’s Gate Book, ‘How and When “Heaven’s Gate” (The Door to the Physical Kingdom Level Above Human) May Be Entered’ in the document entitled, “”Away Team” from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure” written on TI and DO’s behalf by the elder student named Jwnody (June-ody)).

7) The two webmasters are not saying enough in my opinion to more accurately portray the Next Level Members relationship to Their planet earth experiment for growing Souls upon by saying; “They periodically come down to this planet to check in on this civilizations development.” The truth is that the Next Level is constantly working with the humans on their planet though only periodically send their Older Members and Crew to incarnate to help move a Class to it’s next lesson steps. When Representatives come they don’t just talk to those who are interested. They prepare individuals (Souls and vehicles) to recognize the Older Member by His words and vibration so they can move forward a step towards a graduation. They are very busy the whole time. There is nothing casual about it as they seemed to imply by saying they “check in”, It’s a major project.

Yes “few” are selected but many are called (said Jesus) but the time period of receiving instructions isn’t automatically assumed to be long as the Next Level never holds anyone back (as humans do one another) so some can grow very quickly.

In the current civilization this took the shape of three trimester periods starting the first trimester (before that was the prep time for the first trimester) during the time recorded as Moses and the Children of Israel (the Overcomers).

The second trimester was when the graduation formula was laid out by Jesus – separating from human family and giving all one’s Mind, Heart, Soul and Strength to the Next Level through the most currently incarnate (present) Older Member, in our case now to DO (who TI instructed students to make our commitment to, as she said she came to help get him started).

8) DO said that the only thing He and TI had in common at first when they met was a “love for their Heavenly Father”. They didn’t then go about “cobbling together their own belief system” – ideas came to them individually but at the same time that when they compared notes on those ideas they matched.

At first in 1973 they each realized they (Their Minds) each came from The Evolutionary Level Above Human, a physical many membered kingdom (in the records described as The Kingdom of God in the literal heavens (outer space)), and were here on earth to take over the human vehicles prepared for Them to, “bring updates to the Bible” and to “fulfill prophecy”. It was months later through seeking and searching that they recognized the prophecies they were to fulfill were outlined in the Book of Revelation, chapter 11 having to do with the Two Witnesses.  Ti originated the short phrase of “Next Level” because for humans it was their next step in evolution (not Darwinian) by their efforts to abide by all the Older Members taught and demonstrated in Next Level behaviors and ways.

Years after having a classroom DO told us that TI was the “woman” in Revelation chapter 12. Other than that they didn’t teach from the bible at all though would occasionally mention something Jesus or Moses taught. They said we could trust the records of what Jesus said in the four “gospel” accounts because a Next Level Crew worked very hard to make sure his words were still accurate for our benefit.

TI told us that DO was the same Soul who performed the tasks of: Adam, Enoch, Moses, Elijah and Jesus.

TI and DO taught that every Member of the Next Level was a “God” relative to humans because the Kingdom of God was a kingdom level above human with the comparison of the relationship of a dog to a human – a kingdom level of differences. Jesus described this same idea saying that among humans John the Baptist was the greatest human but that the youngest member of the Kingdom of God was above him. (I surmise that the Soul in the vehicle named John the Baptist had not yet graduated into adult membership in the Next Level before that time but was more experienced than any of the other of his students so was given a different task from the others appropriate to his needed growth).

TI and DO did say that the most experienced Member of the Next Level was the “Chief of Chiefs” but that we wouldn’t begin to understand more about where he came from until we were in the Next Level because the human brain wasn’t capable of understanding that. DO said that TI was Chief Administrator of the Earth project which they called an “astronaut training program” for Souls. (Souls are physical containers, DO at first called a “pillow case” or a “pocket” and then in 1994 compared it’s physicality to being “like a plasma” state of matter.

9) I believe it’s misinformation that Ti and Do and/or students stopped at blood banks and/or routinely skipped out on bills. It’s possible that some of those early would be students in 1975 stopped at a blood bank but that wasn’t necessarily approved by TI and DO. I have a lot of reasons to think it wasn’t approved by TI and DO. Here’s some of the reasons I say that. When the group I was in (at a time when groups had very limited contact with TI and DO in those early days in 1975 and 1976 we sometimes went into dumpsters behind a grocery store or donut place to find food that still looked good. When Ti and Do later found out about that, they disapproved entirely as I suspect they might have said about going to blood banks. Our instruction then for meeting our food and gasoline and sometimes shelter needs during that remaining  6 or so months of our public meeting period of time was to “test churches” because the churches claimed to be working for God that included feeding the hungry when asked and we were working for God and so should be given help in that regard. They never told us to ask for money. No pan handling or selling roses or anything on street corners as the Moonies did. We simply would go to a church, find a pastor and ask for help with our needs of food and/or gasoline to continue our mission and/or lodging if need be (though we were equip to sleep outdoors in tents in the decent weather).

re: DO’s felony conviction:

The charges against DO were dropped. They rented a car using one of DO’s old credit cards he still had with him but wasn’t using til then. When they didn’t return the car on time it was reported stolen. TI and DO said they sent letters to the rental car company explaining that they would pay for it (though they didn’t know how but were so taken with their task they hoped the Next Level would help them in that regard). When the rental car company got the car back they dropped the charges but the DA in St. Louis knowing of their unusual story decided to take up the case to make easy points for his  re-election bid (DO felt). After 6 months in jail DO’s case was to come to trial and DO was offered a plea of guilty or go to trial and take his chances. So he coped a plea because it meant he would get out of jail right away since the sentence was 4 months and he already served 6 months. They never approved of stealing and They regretted renting the car but felt they had instructions to do so. Perhaps the Next Level wanted DO to appear to be a “thief in the night” as it said would be the modus operandi of the return of “Jesus” in his new incarnation with a new name.

re: the accusation of “skipping out on bills”; there is only one indication that this may have happened. When TI and DO were out of money and were traveling in late 1973 the report was that they stayed at a motel somewhere east of St. Louis before they rented the car. This was reported by the motel owner who said these two alleged to be TI and DO left a note in the motel room that said something about how the motel owners were helping members of the Kingdom of God. TI and DO never told this story but they didn’t tell every little thing they did in those early years to everyone in the class necessarily. The note they left when I looked at it did make me suspect that TI and DO wrote it but I could be wrong.

10) The group never “shifted in name” nor “belief system”. Some things they believed at first changed but not entirely. In 1997 they still believed it possible they could be picked up with their human vehicles by a spacecraft and preferred that exit rather than laying down their vehicles lives. One can also see this thinking in their packing a travel bag, I suspect with the idea that if TI wanted to take them with their vehicles (and even heal their vehicles) they would be ready to be given another task on earth. TI and DO had once talked about tasks Next Level Members could have on earth. There was a report one time of two people going into a café or something like that in the 1970’s and they were reported as looking very strange and described as wearing a clothing fashion from the 1930’s which made them stand out. TI said if those were Next Level Members that crew needed to do a better job with getting more up to date clothing.

11) By the time we were living in houses, trust fund monies had dried up and about a dozen of us got jobs in the world to pay the bills. Yes we were required to leave all behind but that didn’t mean bring no money with us. They also needed cars since the modus operandi was to go city to city holding public meetings that lasted for about 9 months starting in August of 1975 though for TI and DO can be shown to have lasted for the 1260 days described in Revelation chapter 11 re: the time period the Two Witnesses would be speaking publicly.

Bathing time was 12 minutes not 6 minutes – it was 6 minutes on the shower side and 6 minutes on the lavatory side.

TI and DO ran the organization like a laboratory as if it was on a Next Level physical spacecraft like a Star Trek crew without human behaviors and ways, so no sexuality nor children to take care of nor personal likes and dislikes as we all needed to become crew minded so yes there were many procedures that developed over the years including the size of a pancake a crew was making for others.

TI and DO used the human daily needs of our vehicles for the lab lessons. In a Next Level laboratory every detail of what we do and how to do it can be very important to the successful fulfillment of the task. Having standards like in pancake size became important to have a consistent experiment. Food was thought of as fuel not as something to gain a sensuous experience from preparing or consuming, though they wanted it to be prepared well and to be tasty but they were the lab instructors and we were the voluntary students so these things were not a negative in any regard unless a student was rebellious in which case perhaps that was a sign they didn’t want to be in the group and at times some such procedure became the straw to break the camels back, so to speak, so that someone chose to leave, sometimes in the middle of the night since there were no locks on the doors to exiting and no one watching everyone all night long.

12) The timing of the recycling was never talked about nor used as a threat or made into a prediction, just a reality that was upcoming as the experiment is completed and each human has decided what they believe or not before they die.

It didn’t matter to most of the fully dedicated to TI and DO students (such as myself) that the “demonstration” might not happen, when they told us they felt the being killed in the street prophecy took place when the national media broke the story of the disappearance of many people from the Waldport, OR meeting and subsequent rumors abounded as to where they went and whether they were abducted and/or to be killed. I was among the Waldport followers and we were never in harms way in the least. So TI and DO, then Peep and Bo names were seen as evil abductors of people, hence when they learned of their human vehicles names were crucified by the press on national TV by Walter Cronkite and all the networks as charlatans, etc. When TI and DO told us of this change in interpretation of the shooting in the streets scenario they understood if people didn’t want to follow them because the demonstration of resurrecting a first was a big part of what they expected to demonstrate. But for the most part, including me, it had no bearing on my wanted to follow them. They never actually dropped that there might be a demonstration and DO even wondered if our holding public meetings again in 1994 saying this time that DO was the return of the same Soul who was incarnate in the vehicle named “Jesus” would stimulate some irate Christians to bring about our exit from our vehicles as happened 2000 yrs ago. That might still happen as I speak in December of 2019 and thereafter by the hands of govt and/or religious and/or by atheists as this tribulation time period escalates. Already there are democrats writing laws to make it a criminal offense to refuse to vaccinate. How much will that movement grow?

13) TI’s vehicle’s dying in 1985 didn’t shake the “core belief system” of most of the students and shook none of the students who laid down their lives in 1997, nor mine at the time since I was present for. I recognized TI and DO right from the start as a number of students in the exit video’s said. That recognition was very real though can’t be explained by the often primitive human sciences because many of those folks don’t know that there is a spirit/mind and/or Soul that is very real that exists before and after it’s in the flesh experience. It’s similar to the idea of reincarnation but not exactly as there aren’t a set number of souls that exist who return over and over as there is a genetic Spirit that develops from each new human vehicle that grows from it’s genetic and environmental starting mind/spirit from ancestors through parents and care givers and then from society. They don’t really re-incarnate except for the way a computer software program can be developed on one computer and then moved to another one, which is taking place for all humans as the hardware having many spirits time sharing each new human biological computer system. The only reality to reincarnation is when the Next Level brings Souls back to take over new human vehicles to continue their lesson plan to graduate the human kingdom. Jesus taught this would happen upon his return which is still in progress since TI and DO evidence being the teaching part of that return with DO fulfilling the task as the return of the same Soul who was in the vehicle named Jesus in the 1990’s but when he had his students do all the talking about so didn’t change the public prophecy period of 1260 days in Revelation 11 as one of the Two Witnesses with his Older Member (Father) TI.

The media portrays TI’s leaving her vehicle before they initially thought would happen as some big shaking up of students and for a few perhaps it did so they left but for the core strongest students it was somewhat surprising but didn’t shake their core beliefs at all or they would have also left. We actually had notice this might happen in about 1983 when TI had her eye removed which was said to be cancer then. TI and DO by then had already prepared the class for their potential departure before us though they still thought they would both leave together.

What’s interesting is how Revelation chapter 12 outlines the classrooms start to finish in 1997, to now even and that during that time period the “woman” (who DO said was referring to TI) would be helped to escape the flood of negativity from the Luciferian (dragon) Space Alien Fallen Angel Souls which includes all the humans who were sending negativity to her and DO by “opening it’s (earth’s) mouth” – a saying related to someone dying and being buried:

Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

A “flood” represents the negative thoughts and feelings being sent to her by humans and Space Aliens against them from all over the US and world even. It’s interesting that after TI left her vehicle he felt like he then knew what TI had said to him in the very beginning that “I’m here to get you started and then I’m going back” was referring to her leaving her incarnation ahead of him. So TI knew it though didn’t know how it would play out. They said all along that their vehicles would die and that they would resurrect. They at first thought their resurrection would be public but knew by 1978 that it might not go that way. (I have three witnesses to these things I am saying now).

Then in verse 12:17 it implies the woman is no longer in the picture and that the testing is being put upon her “seed” – those “she” seeded – deposited with Soul containers, which includes DO because DO got his membership in the Next Level through TI (who he recognized as his Older Member, not because TI told him so) which completes the real trinity of Father to Son to Student via their Holy Spirit/Mind that is like the blood of all members of the Next level to be the instruments of.

14) DO (Applewhite) didn’t alter his ideas – He actually said that TI “burned out her vehicle” dealing with the world’s negativity the included from Their students and of course from the loved ones of the students that were sending such negative thoughts to them.

The Hale Bopp comets arrival with or without a companion object was not a “new revelation” at all. In fact DO said it was the “marker” He and TI had been anticipating since at least 1975 to pick them and their qualifying students up. (DO (AppleWhite) never said the alleged companion object was a spacecraft. What he said was that it was irrelevant whether it was or was not a spacecraft – that the comet was the “marker” for the timing of the exit they had been planning since 1975 and in earnest since 1994 since he knew by the human responses to the second period of about 9 months of public meetings around the US that they wouldn’t be exiting their vehicles because of irate Christians who would see them as the antichrist.

15) They weren’t wearing “armbands”. They were patches which read “Heaven’s Gate Away Team”.

16) Rio, in the group named Neody wrote in his book, “Beyond Human Mind – The Soul Evolution of Heaven’s Gate” that he never intended to lay down his life but was waiting until the last moment to leave. (He knew of the plan from just months after he joined in around March of 1994, because DO talked about it several times before I left the group and then they prepared to leave thereafter over the course of 2+ years, thus saying he “had planned to be the 40th body discovered in the mass suicide” seems to be misinformation in this article or something Rio didn’t recall in his book. They (we) were in the San Clemente warehouse “craft” in September of 1994 when I recall DO bringing up the prospect of leaving by our own hand (for the second direct time).

Here’s what Rio says in his book “Beyond Human Mind – The Soul Evolution of Heaven’s Gate”: (speaking about when DO asked us whether we’d be willing to exit our vehicles by our own hand on page 48 Rio writes)…

“I went along with the idea and possibility of DO being the “Second Coming” just for learning purposes. I knew that leaving the body behind was not for me but wanted to stay until the end.”

Yes he left with DO’s blessing but not to perform another task because DO waited for him to instigate wanting to leave. Thus DO recognized that TI knew of Rio’s plan, but since Rio still wanted to serve (like the webmasters did) DO felt to have him shop the movie they had been working on and let him be the one to find the bodies (though they also sent instructions to Rkkody (I think it was) about their exit plan), in case Rio changed his mind. I never heard that Rio got a map in the mail. He lived in that house for some months so I doubt he wouldn’t have known how to find them but I suppose DO’s crew could have sent him a map to cover their bets or in case the instruction fell into someone elses hands. Even though that was all unlikely to go that route DO was covering his bets to be thorough about how it might work.

17) re: the part of the report citing Rio’s statements:

Everyone on earth will not be drawn to a future incarnate Older Member from the Next Level any more than all humans were drawn to TI and DO in the 70’s to date. Their classroom in the future will only be a “finishing school” for those who have gone through the “process” of overcoming their humanness. DO said that even some of the 38 students who laid down their human vehicles lives would need to return to finish their overcoming. We humans – students of the Next Level Older Members or not nor Space Alien Souls know how to create a soul”\ or how to destroy a soul. Only the Next Level can create a Soul or destroy a Soul. A soul is a container created by the Next Level. It has a plasma type of physicality and is deposited into selected human vehicles that the Next Level determines can be a “match” for the needed growth of returning Souls to qualify to graduate the human condition through. What we do create is what we choose to do with the Mind/Spirit – information, behaviors and ways provided to us from the Next Level that can grow our soul but it always remains an option and all don’t succeed and it during this civilization was structured to occur over thousands of earth years, a short time in the Next Level since they are out of time.

Rio was mistaken to say “I know everything worth knowing about them…” as I can attest to, there is always more we can come to know about Them – TI and DO. No one on earth knows everything worth knowing about them. Rio said in his book that he didn’t know if DO was the return of the same Soul as was in Jesus. By the 10 year mark after they left it seems he changed his mind about that, which is fine but he also said things at that 10 year mark that was off track, some of which I pointed out to him. Like he said he had a “ticker tape connection” with DO but we never and TI and DO never had a ticker tape connection. That portrays a connection that is very exact and it’s not that it couldn’t be. It just seemed too certain and even TI and DO had a check and balance system to their connection before they would determine an instruction having come from their Older Member.

TI and DO always said from the start that they were not “Jesus” because Jesus was the name of the human vehicle prepared for an Older Member Soul to take over to perform that task through. For the teaching part of the task that vehicle was not coming back. TI and Do stated in a statement they wrote in the back of the book UFO Missionaries Extraordinary that Jesus would return as part of the 7th and last “closeness” where they TI and DO were the Ones who returned as the 6th Closeness. That 7th closeness would seem to be depicted in Revelation chapter 19 that Christians often think is the description of the entire return, since no one seems to get that the Two Witnesses are the Father and Son both returning for the teaching incarnate period where the final return is not a teaching time according to DO. It appears from Revelation chapter 6 that there is a time upcoming when people will see DO’s “face” in association with even an armada of spacecrafts in the near heavens – to see with the naked eye, like the biggest comets can be seen. When that occurs depending on how apparent it is and how many people can actually physically see it and understand it seems to be based on who comes to know about TI and Do since their exit in 1997 and thereafter. Otherwise some might see the Armada in the near heavens as Space Aliens or Humans or as cgi because before that it seems DO thought the Luciferian space aliens would trick many humans with holograms like Fatima to try to steal souls from seeing the truth.

DO did go public as the ‘Undercover “Jesus”‘ in his publish of a document with that title to a number of newgroups on the world wide web in 1995 that I believe was the 6th Thunder (roar) as forecast in Revelation chapter 10. The reason Jesus was in quotes because the name is the name given to the human physical body He – The Older Member Soul took over to perform his task for his Older Member (Heavenly Father (not incarnate then)) through. He was undercover because no human would know it was him unless they were prepared by the Next Level to recognize him since humans can’t ordinarily see a Soul nor can necessarily see a spirit/mind – discarnate with occasional exceptions in part.

I don’t believe the Christian phrase “Second Coming” is over until the recycling is fully underway so I don’t know what Rio is referring to by saying he can “help with understanding the next steps, after the “Second Coming”…’

Any steps any of us can take now are laid out in the Heaven’s Gate Book and/or through the Beyond Human – The Last Call video tape series and in the hundreds of internal classroom audio meeting tapes that are available for free download in different ways for those that ask Carlan (Crlody – Classroom name) or me – Sawyer – (Swyody – Classroom name). My email address is: sawyerhg@yahoo.com

I also have a facebook page: sawyer.heavensgate and a blog: sawyerhg.wordpress.com and a youtube channel where I do weekly livestreams under the channel name: 3spm

Some corrections to those who say nothing Ti and Do said came true

Here are just a handful of all the many things Ti and Do said and taught and did that showed to have come true. However it will be each person’s choice to try to grow to see them or not. With each one – in no special order, I could give a lot more examples. I will expand this as they occur to me since a few people seem to think nothing they ever said came true:
Things TI and DO said that have come true:

1) In the 1970’s Ti and Do said we would enjoy the music of the spheres while Next Level Members:

from spaceweather.com on 11/23/2018:

MUSICAL” WAVES DETECTED IN EARTH’S MAGNETIC FIELD: This week in Norway, a space weather observatory detected sine waves of exceptional purity rippling through Earth’s polar magnetic field. The waves, which persisted for hours with nearly perfect pitch, have been linked to “tearing instabilities” and explosions in Earth’s magnetic tail–not to mention bright auroras in Arctic skies. Visit today’s edition of Spaceweather.com to see the waves and to learn more about them.

2) Ti and Do developed a movie script they said was fiction based on the truth that entailed Pluto being an “earth lab” inside and having a big “whitish” louvered door for spacecrafts to go in and out.

New Horizons spacecraft has documented that Pluto has a blueish atmosphere and has a large whitish spot on it’s “top” – could that be the “door” a type of a membrane door.

3) A spacecraft did come to pick them up. They felt Hale Bopp was the “marker” for that to come true.

4) Ti and Do said they would die and resurrect.

When the media hit they said for about 3 days they felt the “mission was dead” and there was no sense going on. (See 88Update). But they stood on their feet again to continue to have meetings and then after TI left DO stood up by himself (resurrection means “to stand up again”) as the one who was incarnate in the vehicle named Jesus and saying Ti was his “heavenly Father”.

An additional way this was true is demonstrated by Revelation chapter 11 as the two witnesses being first “subdued” (overcome) (1975 on the national news their vehicles reputations were shot down talking about them a thieves) and then they then “separated by dying themselves” (Greek “apokteino auto”). Their ascension (rising up) was invisible to humans but not to “those with eyes to see”, a common expression by Jesus referring to those who recognized “them” in some way.

5) They said they were not “Jesus” because Jesus was the name of the vehicle taken over by an Older Member from the Next Level and taken through a metamorphosis to change into a new creature. They said Jesus would return as part of the 7th Closeness. (See UFO Missionaries Extraordinary). That closeness seems to have begun again, mostly as of 2017 with a final closeness yet to come but they said it was not to be a teaching time as that time has passed. For 20 years the Heaven’s Gate story diminished in the media. In fact during the 10 year anniversary there were only a few major media done on them. One was National Geographic’s – The Final Report; Heaven’s Gate.

For the next 10 years occasionally there would be a story that talked about them among the Luciferian space alien stimulated evil and abusive cults who did pressure people with controls and manipulations and murder and money mongering and blatant sexual “freedom” while Ti and Do’s group had none of that and actually a great deal of proof to the contrary.

For nearly 15 years my subscriptions to my youtube channel, 3spm grew maybe one every 6 months. Then 2017 hit when I also released my book and there were a few anniversary stories early on, like Inside Edition to where they continued the same mis/dis information campaign over again. After the anniversary I was approached by CNN/HLN to participate in a documentary. I asked the producer Alex Pressburg why they were covering the story – was it the anniversary – and he said no – it was because “it’s an interesting story”. That came out in the fall of 2017 alongside the 10 podcast series by Pineapple Street media via Stitcher I also interviewed for extensively on several occasions. The brought out new material – the letters Terrie received and the video Terrie received and with it accusations that TI was a hypocrite and that they were manipulative and controlling and that DO was insensitive to telling Terrie about Ti’s death but it became apparent that DO was following TI’s instructions (as I can show was true because DO had no reason to lie and because TI’s biggest concern on her deathbed according to DO and Lvvody and Jnnody who helped her in those last two weeks was DO’s carrying on without her. One huge aspect of DO’s carrying on was keeping the classroom hidden from any who wanted to find them and interfere with them. Hence DO didn’t tell Terrie right away because he knew that could stimulate an investigation that could land him in jail and/or split up the classroom.

There are 218 audio tapes that show how dedicated TI was to their classroom’s completion under DO. Plus TI had many opportunities to tell Terrie she was diagnosed with cancer in around 1983 while we lived in Texas and Terrie lived in Texas, but didn’t. Instead she just wrote letters – only one phone call in that time of years. Again because all that would do would be create more anxiety with Terrie and at that point especially the objective of letter contacts and subsequent visits in 1985 and 1986-7 was to “calm family anxieties”.
The claim was also made in the podcasts and by a number of other investigators that said DO became “a little psychotic” (said by x-student Frank (Andody) after Ti left but the evidence is that he continued with the classroom exactly as Ti had instigated as they were always looking for the way in which they were to leave the earth/human kingdom and how.
It’s easy to show that Ti and Do were willing to appear to be wrong to put students that were not in the classroom with all their hearts, souls, mind and strength. In other words they followed their instructions hence the establishment of a pick up by a spacecraft in 1980 or so didn’t happen but because it didn’t Jssody (joined with Alxody) left the group, while for those that had been fully committed it didn’t matter as they (I) were not banking on a spacecraft pickup to remain in the classroom. Some souls were simply further along in their overcoming of humanness process so they had many ways of filtering them out or helping them overcome their doubts.

Lots more to say about this that can be seen in my blog posts with Pineapple in the title. That’s at: https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com

6) They said spirits existed and now I’ve seen them on a number of occasions where while in the classroom it made sense to me so I believed it but I hadn’t seen anything. One can see my descriptions of those events in my blog sawyerhg.wordpress.com in Sawyer’s Story.

7) They said there would be more interest in them after they left as it wasn’t designed by the Next Level to attract large numbers as there were only a certain amount of positions students who graduates would be given to fill.

8) They said they were from the same family as Jesus was from and was a type of repeat performance – teaching the same requirements of leaving all behind to qualify. They (DO by himself post 1985 when Ti left her vehicle) stuck to that from 1975 to 1997. It seems they began to examine exiting by our own hand (as Jesus did, since he stimulated his capture and said in the book of John, “no man takes it from me” speaking about his vehicles life. Jesus also talked about how his students needed to “drink the same cup of his blood” he was given to drink knowing they would be hated and killed the same way He was hated and killed. Ti and Do were mostly hated and some wanted them dead. I witnessed at the Waldport meeting a woman in the back shouting very loudly, “you ought to be shot” when they said children could not come, explaining that children couldn’t make a choice to leave the world they hadn’t hardly experienced.

If one compares all of the red letter parts of the 4 gospels – the words attributed to Jesus with Ti and Do’s teachings one will see they are exactly the same teachings. Thus if Jesus said it – forecast it then when Ti and Do put it in more accurate to modernity and generic terms they were showing proof they were the same Older Members returned as promised and that’s why most who call themselves Christians often don’t know they are not believers in what Jesus taught, except for a few things, but according to Jesus to be his disciple one needed to abide by all he taught, not just pick and choose.

My book: “TI and Do The Father and “Jesus” Heaven’s Gate UFO Two Witnesses” provides a great deal of the evidence of how what they said as the Father and Jesus came true or is about to come true through everything Ti and Do taught and did and said would happen at the conclusion of the civilization.

9) Ti and Do said that when they left, the human kingdom would be accelerated towards recycling and that would be a further testing ground for each human. If one looks at events that have escalated in the US since the late 1990’s (the time of the Seven Thunders of Rev 10) one will see a dramatic increase in more animalistic human behaviors as each human is forced to become what they are, what they had been entertaining in their heads mostly until then but now don’t have the self control to not play out. Hence mass shootings, more earthquakes that are larger and larger, tsunami’s, volcanic eruptions, larger hurricane’s, while humans try to take responsibility for these because the Luciferians hate for people to think the Next Level exists and are behind their escalation.

10) The Hale Bopp comet was the “marker” for their exit. In other words whether there was a companion with it or not didn’t’ matter. They knew it was the event of a spacecraft picking them up they had been waiting for since 1975. NASA astronomers stated in their annual Hale Bopp symposiums after 1997 that they believed Hale Bopp was made up of TWO objects in orbit around a common center. This can also be shown to be the “sign” Jesus described as “lightning (star like – shining/strewn from east to west (along the ecliptic).
11) Ti and Do said in 1975 that spacecrafts can be all kinds of sizes and shapes and colors. Through all the many NASA and ESA and other astronomical institutions it’s been learned that comets were not “dirty snowballs”. None of them so far are round. They look like a bowling pin sometimes and have jets that seem to stimulate their rotation and propulsion.

Ultima Thule was described as reddish and looks like a snowman made up from two clearly distinct objects appearing to be fused together with some kind of “light” attachment method – docking?

Pineapple Street Heavens Gate Episode 6 x-member claims DO becomes Psychotic

Here is Sawyer’s response to the Pineapple Street Media’s podcast series Heaven’s Gate – episode 6 – The Choice – featuring x-Heaven’s Gate cult member – Frank (Andody) who joined together with Erika (Chkody) who joined from the same Waldport, Oregon meeting as did Sawyer (Swyody) in 1975.

Chkody was among the 38 who laid down their human vehicles lives with DO in March of 1997 and her statement is included in the podcast from the Student Exit Videos.

My response here is not to find fault with Frank in any way shape or form as he made his choice to join and made his 17+ year choices to stay in the cult and has since continued to make choices on how to think and talk publically about TI and DO and his experience. My aim is to present the side of a believer in Ti and Do, that I am and in that sense believe I can speak for Chkody (Erika) as well.

I consider all former classmates to be family because of our joint experience but when they say things that in my opinion misrepresent TI and DO, I feel committed to speak up about it, so the side for TI and DO is provided for others to judge for themselves what to believe about them. That voice for them is infrequently heard otherwise.

However, in life for all people, different people often come away with different responses to the same circumstances and especially when it comes to beliefs even within the same organization. I learned this many years ago pertaining to this Heaven’s Gate story, when I visited with Frank in Seattle, around 2005 and we had completely different takes of at least one event we both experienced in the classroom. Now I know there are a number, even many more.

Frank says, (regarding he and Ericka’s joining with TI and DO); “When first joining I was mixed about not being together anymore but didn’t want to miss the opportunity and [they would] take it one step at a time.” He says it “didn’t sink in that it would be the end of the relationship” (with Erika).

Erika said in the Exit tape she made, that at the Waldport meeting it was “instant recognition” (of Ti and Do and/or their information) for her.

I also experienced that instant recognition. It wasn’t like I had a deja vu experience, thinking I recognized TI and/or DO. For me it was a recognition that their information spoke to me as being true which felt so different from all the other spiritual minded quests I’d read about or experimented with up until then. I knew I had to go with them and knew it meant leaving all behind and giving it my 100% of time and energy. I knew that included breaking up with my partner, now known as Sarah (Srfody), one of the Heaven’s Gate Webmasters with Mark (Mrcody), whom I had lived with for five years before then. She was from the same home town on Long Island where we met and who I fell in love with and who I sought to build my life with that included moving to the British Columbia, Canada bush/mountain country to try to homestead.

When Sarah and I left the Waldport/Newport, OR area, about the third day after the meeting in Waldport with Ti and Do, which was the time frame recommended to “get our house in order,” not having any other circumstances to require more time, (as some others had with house ownership and children even), I recall Sarah for the first time in even years wanting to snuggle and perhaps have sex. This was unusual because I had become the sole instigator of that physical part of our relationship and just a month or two before that time Sarah had started up a relationship with another man named Hobbit that followed what might have been another, possibly with a Canadian man (Aldi) who came to visit us and who she went up to visit. (I only know for sure about her open fling with Hobbit, but what was clear is that she hadn’t been happy with me for quiet some time and how she hitchhiked up to Canada without me to pursue.)

I was heartbroken by those events that did not work out for her so she wanted to get back together with me which I agreed to, having recovered from her choices but I was not angry with her for. I’m not faulting her for wanting someone else, but to then want me in that physical way for the first time in a long time, by her instigation struck me then as very odd and for the first time in our 5 year relationship I turned her down.

My point in explaining this, is that it appeared to be an indicator that she may not have had the same kind of instant recognition I had and would explain why she had a number of episodes in the classroom that showed that and led to her wanting to leave when the opportunity presented itself with Mark’s choice to no longer abide by DO’s teaching lesson step that was referred to as “I could be wrong.” That lesson step was designed to reduce our dependence in our own human mind over the Mind from our Older Members – Ti and Do. That lesson step was kin to when TI told us all that, “you need to give us your will” in around 1978. And it seems to be exactly what Jesus taught when he said to be his disciple one needed to “deny yourself” and is what would be a primary part of a disciples prayer to their Heavenly Father that requested that “your will be done on earth as it is in heaven”.

I was not mixed about breaking up with Sarah, though I won’t say it wasn’t a little awkward when I did see her, but like Frank described, we two were also separated and when we traveled were assigned to different groups.

The Host of the show then says: “It was drilled into the followers that human emotions were not allowed in the Next Level” and something about how one could not be “in love” and get to the Next Level.

That’s a huge distortion to say, as human emotions were not banned. We had no procedure that said, Thou shall have no emotions. I’d bet most members laughed every day and it would have been inappropriate to laugh at another expense or behind the back of others like is frequent in the human kingdom.

We still experienced sadness at times, like when we individually slipped from our goals, but it’s true we were taught not to linger in that sadness and use it to stimulate having an even better handle on those goals. (One goal would be to remain celibate in both body and mind). We were taught to maintain a “pleasant countenance”, a part of controlling our vehicles vibration.

If someone was “down in the mouth”, it wasn’t like they would be reprimanded by anyone but it showed they were troubled about something so their partner or the Overseeers of a department they were in, might ask them about it or write to Ti and Do about it, as it could be a sign that they aren’t happy even being here if they couldn’t override it.

Another time for some sadness was when TI and DO pushed us to be more “thirsty” for next steps. There was never any yelling or raising of voices or threats of any kind, nor punishment, like happens all the time in the human kingdom to keep people in line, to keep their jobs, etc.

On a rare occasion we learned they were displeased with us. The times I’m thinking of just so happened to take place when we were living in Austin and DO delivered the news in one of those cases. Ti had instigated choral singing of Christmas carols, that she did not participate in, as she said she wanted us to learn to look to DO for direction. (DO never sang with us, more than a few notes to demonstrate how to sing a certain phrase). Mllody played piano. We sang for TI after we’d practiced some and some in the class designed new lyrics to the song, The Twelve Days of Christmas. We gave TI a little concert. A very short time later, DO held a meeting without TI present and said something about our lyrics disturbed TI. Those lyrics were “ten years a waiting…” (meant to imply waiting for the pickup). The students who wrote those lyrics that we practiced separately, I believe were drawing from knowing that TI and DO hating being here because the vibration had become so distorted. TI even thought parts of the plant kingdom showed that lower vibration. The example I can recall was how TI thought the oak trees she saw growing in Texas weren’t designed to grow all crooked and twisted up like they are. They wanted the task to be over, so they could go back to resume the life style and physical vehicles and positions they had before coming to earth to do this task.

TI considered being in the human kingdom like being in a snake pit and I didn’t see it that way, even a little until after I left and I realized that to us, it’s normal for there to be all kinds of sneakiness, deceit, back biting, back stabbing, profiteering to another detriment, manipulations, predatory behaviors, legalized robbery and murder, sold as collateral damage to anybody who is in the wrong place at the wrong time because their leaders stand in the way of certain agendas, Examples as of late are found in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, etc where people are killed or die because of.

But what DO helped us see was how He was with his Older Member and we were with our Older Member so we weren’t going to have the same longing to leave. We should have been happy to stay as long as it’s our task to stay. We were not really “waiting” to exit as we had our Overcoming tasks to do and needed to be here to finish it. TI didn’t need to learn the lessons we were having.

I realized, in a sense, since originally they said we’d be picked up in “months” and “not later than 5 years”, both of which didn’t come true, it was like pushing that into TI’s face to say we were waiting. By the way, TI had said one time that the reason the “demonstration” didn’t happen as they thought it would was because the students were not ready to leave then. That would explain how Revelation 11 regarding the Two Witnesses could be translated in several ways because of the varied time frames in the prophecy in between their being “subdued” and then “separating by dying themselves” (also having several interpretations that could have worked to demonstrate fulfillment).

There was also no prohibition from enjoying a food or a sunset or mountain view or the colors and aromas of flowers, etc, though Ti and Do taught that we would outgrow even those degrees of sensual stimulus.

But yes having emotion between students was taught to be suppressed and redirected to one aim, to foster that emotion with only our Heavenly Father, though TI, before she exited made it very specific that our commitment (love) was to be towards DO only. TI instigated this and it was the lesson step of making one’s “committal” to DO, which we did individually and privately in notes that would go directly to Ti and Do. They didn’t tell us what to say in our notes but we were required to express ourselves. If we couldn’t it was a sign that we weren’t in the right place being in that classroom.

As a matter of fact, I think it safe to say that everything Ti and Do taught, said and did had the potential of “testing” our commitment if we made one. That’s the nature of being a student in a cult – there are no tail feathers on the teachers – no degrees in Theology or affiliation with the rich and famous or to huge mega million dollar organizations that all tend to give us a sense of credibility, whether we see it or not.

So it’s true that one can not graduate into the Next Level when married (committed and “in love” with another human). Jesus taught this when he said:

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection ((rising, Standing up again, graduation)) they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Marriage was the form of making that committal, TI said, was started by the Next Level, to bring some structure to whom one propagated with. It became known as adultery when people broke the various procedures that governed such commitments and relationships. Jesus said Moses gave in to his students to allow them to divorce. Moses and Jesus taught that the aim was for students to give all their heart, all their mind, all their soul and all their strength to God, but when a Representative from God’s kingdom wasn’t physically present in a human vehicle with us then the way we would show our love for God was to demonstrate it by loving our neighbors as ourselves. In other words we were to see all humans we lived among as our neighbors. It’s not a theoretical “love” and nor was it meant as a sexual love, but a friendly love.

So as long as one was abiding by the teachings of the Next Level in that regard as best they could, getting up whenever they fall short of that, they were still growing closer to becoming members of the Next Level. All the plants in the “garden” don’t grow at the same rate and have bursts of growth at the same times and to the same degrees. So the lesson steps, though everyone can apply them, are given in stages so no one has more on their plate than they can handle, that is if they look to the Next Level for help.

The Next Level determines which souls or spirits still have the capacity to advance closer to graduation and “saves” them for a future opportunity, though they turn up the heat for each of us to make our choices of whom to serve, like Jesus said between making our master, God (The One true kingdom of God in whatever terms, secular or religious) OR Mammon (human mammalian forms of treasure and wealth)

TI and DO said that the Next Level still loves Lucifer and that they have given him and his associates who fell many opportunities to get back on track, even though the more one goes against the Next Level’s present Representatives teachings the harder it gets to change, so that one subtly loses whatever degree of recognition they once had. Thus the lessons need to get harder for that soul to be stimulated to change.

Frank then talks about how: “my thoughts at times were filled with doubts and questioning everything…”, which he indicated was part of what compounded with the “suppression of feelings” that resulted in the development of a deeper voice and a stutter in his speech.

I do wonder where Frank got the understanding that DO’s mimic of his suddenly deeper voice was expressing a masculine voice. I don’t recall if DO spoke about it at that meeting but I doubt he did, though not saying it’s not possible. The way Frank says it in the broadcast was, “…he was conveying to me that I was expressing a masculine voice.” Whatever DO said or didn’t say, Frank said he felt “humiliated – ashamed for expressing my masculinity” and said he had a “deep seated anger of who is he to express how I should speak”.

I guess by that point it shows that just being a body in the classroom didn’t necessarily mean much when one’s mind was far apart, so in this way DO’s response of repeating a low sounding voice, that Frank sees as mimicking, and may be an accurate depiction became a test to get him “off the fence,” he had apparently been on, or he wouldn’t have built up a “deep seated anger” towards DO as he reported.

Why was Frank angry? I don’t know if he gave reasons why he was angry. In terms of his reporting his response to DO’s “mimic” of thinking, “who is he [DO] to express how he [Frank] should speak,” DO was the individual he chose to leave all behind to follow, at that point for over 10 years. As far as I could tell, Frank was as committed to Ti and Do’s process as anyone else but what was going on in his head or that he might have talked about with him partners and/or TI and DO was not known to me.

But at that point of the mimic, it seems Frank didn’t see DO as his teacher or he wouldn’t have had “deep seated anger” because he would have been keeping things surfaced.

I was given a number of personal lessons and in none of them was I embarrassed. All the students got lessons in group and personally. Had I been Frank’s partner then and say he starting talking in a much lower than usual voice, I probably would have felt obligated to mention it to him, bring it up to him to examine it, and perhaps I would have written a note to DO about it since it was my partner and partners were instructed to ask one another for their observations and help to see their ways that were not the ways taught to us from TI and DO.

There was no procedure on how to speak and what tone our voice would have but this was certainly not normal for Frank so it was in itself a “red flag” that something was wrong. Now to clarify, if a partner knew their partner had been working with DO on any behavior or way, the partner wouldn’t try to step in. I never said anything to Frank about his low voice and/or stutter and I doubt anyone else would have either as it was then between him and DO. At the time I didn’t even think about it at all really. It was strange but I didn’t have a judgement about it. That wasn’t my business – we were all taught to keep our eyes on our own behavior and ways, unless something came about that we had to pay attention to.

Frank says, “I was not allowed to be me… not safe to express who I am…” and that was true because who “me” was needed to shift from the old “me” to the new “me”, from the caterpillar “me” to the butterfly “me”. It was getting rid of a human form of individuality.

Ti and Do taught that no humans are really individuals because we don’t know how we become the product of the discarnate influences that attach to us. They taught that who we really are is the “chooser” of what to think, say and do, which decided which discarnates we accept and which we reject. And there is nothing wrong with that. It’s a beautiful design of the human kingdom but was never meant to be satisfying, hence why we go through stages of “seeking” what more there might be, though that may only surface in our conscious as dissatisfaction with who we are, what we are doing.

If by “suppression of feelings” Frank is referring to not being allowed to play out his feelings for Erika, yes that was part of the program. And yes I agree that according to Ti and Do, not changing our human feelings to feelings for TI and DO’s Mind, instructions, procedures, behaviors and ways in the Next Level Program for us, could have negative mental and/or physical consequences, as DO talked about in relationship to Terrie’s physical ailments, from the suffering in relationship to her dealing with her mother’s absence from her life, which DO indicated could have been largely subconscious because of her root system to TI, her vehicle’s mother.

Additional suppression of feelings we all had to impose upon ourselves to be in the program 100% was by blocking out the past and thus suppressing feelings for our human family, friends, career, goals, forms of entertainment, desires that even include doing what one wants to do when one wants to do it. Rkkody exemplified this last point. He left the class no less than three times and was able to stay in touch so returned each time until he laid down his life in 1998. It became known among class members in a light hearted way, since DO knew Rkkody both recognized his Older Member and I know, loved him, that he felt confined at times and just wanted to be able to “go out and get a pizza when he wanted to”. DO, I believe brought specific example at a meeting when Rkkody had returned.

But this suppression of the expression of human feelings for things that used to be in our lives, didn’t have to be a negative just like not giving into sensuality, though perhaps somewhat unhealthy to a human’s normal health, if it was purely voluntary and dealt with, as such feelings surfaced, wouldn’t become a negative in that program. For instance, when I joined I knew I was going to have to cease playing musical instruments. I was part of a 4 piece band who had gigs in and around Newport, Oregon. I left them and sold my instruments. (By the way I don’t recall TI or DO or any of their literature spelling that out. I just knew it. But on that subject, I used to have dreams that I was trying to play the flute and couldn’t get the notes out, like I didn’t have the wind. For the first month after joining I had a flute with me that I brought to try to sell on the road. I didn’t feel to play it and I knew I was starting a new life and such things would no longer be in it. I sold it and used the money to buy a broken down car that lasted maybe a week.

But had I longed to play music, I imagine if I didn’t block out those feelings and shift my attention to the activities in the classroom at that time, they could have become pent up stress that over time could get stronger and could have tempted me to want to leave because of and/or could have taken a toll on my health in some ways. So that becomes compounded, the more things like that we don’t block out of our consciousness.

Frank said when he left the cult he was “elated”. In a sense I was also when I left, noting that I enjoyed doing simple things for myself, like choosing what I wanted to eat.

The way TI and DO would explain that, was that once we leave the class, we were “going with our discarnate influences” re-attracting the influences we had been keeping at bay by not giving into doing the things that the influences sought to attach to us to do through our vehicle; i.e. playing an instrument, fixing a meal of our choice, playing a sport, having a relationship, having sex, pursuing a career, etc.

Thus leaving the class eliminated that conflict which the vehicle then felt elated by. However, according to Jesus (just like what Ti and Do taught in different terms) we then attract “7 other demons that are worse than what we had to deal with before.” I can’t say I can count 7 discarnates that sought to attach to me after I left, but I can recognize characteristics of thinking I have to deal with now that I never had to deal with before and during the classroom time. For instance of late I’ve seen myself judging what others do and how others physically look to me. In the past I would have recognized differences in people’s appearance but now I’ve got an opinion about it that sort of defines the “book by it’s cover” which to me is a demon. However, I do still retain Ti and Do’s teachings so when I hear those thoughts I treat them as demons and shoe them away. Ti and Do taught that we are not responsible for the thoughts that occur to us, but we are responsabile for the thoughts we allow to linger in our consciousness.

In a comment Frank made on the Episode 5 facebook page, he said something about not suppressing feelings while not always “acting (them) out” either, but allowing ourselves to express them as being good for us to do. I’m not saying some of that can not be advantageous. I suspect that’s the basis of “confession of sins (missed the mark)”, to get things off our chest. We had regular weekly “slippage meetings” for that purpose, yet had a bunch of procedures of what not to bring up (sexuality, not even using the word) except as a generalization of something to the affect of “I gave into sensuality” and in that case would add that we wrote a note to TI and DO explaining the details. We had instruction to not blame anyone else for our slippage and to provide a remedy with each one, so what one might say, “I entertained thoughts of the past” and my remedy was to “nip it in the bud” better next time.

But I wonder if repeating our feelings over and over could be considered by Ti and Do as an indulgence in those thoughts and thus a strengthening of them and if there are others present who are susceptible to their influence an even greater negative to say out loud.

Ti and Do taught that the thoughts and feelings we have become what we are and what we “believe” and what we get when we exit these vehicles, whether they are based in reality and what degree or not. The more we entertain these beliefs the stronger we become them. When class members entertained thoughts that doubted DO they also separated from him, from His Next Level Mind and start to lose touch more and more with recognizing who He and TI are and who they represent and from having the strength to ward off the Lower Forces misinformation attacks. This applies to all aspects of the classroom, not just to doubts. When we don’t do our homework by kicking out thoughts, behaviors and ways that are not from their mind, to include thoughts/feelings of sensuality we separate from him.

Frank expressed this was happening from the start so it’s no wonder he came to see DO in a different light than that classmates that stayed, including Chkody (Erika) and others, to the point that he began to see DO, in his words as “a little psychotic” when DO brought to his students attention, after the Branch Davidian ATF/FBI murders in 1992, his consideration of the way we might get firearms to pose a threat to authorities who might then become the instruments of our laying down our vehicles lives.

Note – Even though Jesus rebuked Peter when he struck, with a sword, one of the Jewish military (Sanhedrin guards) who came to capture Jesus by his arrangement, Jesus was against violence yet instructed his disciples to have a sword with them:

Luk 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Luk 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luk 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
Luk 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Why did they need to carry swords this time when they went out to preach about him when they didn’t have them before when he sent them out. Was he trying to pose a threat without suggesting use of the sword when he said:

Mat 26:51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest’s, and smote off his ear.
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Perhaps some that they would encounter in their travels might cause some to think twice about confronting them. Jesus at their last supper together told them their task was to go out and tell the truth about what they heard and experienced from Jesus. Jesus knew that if they hated him they would hate his students too since they were of the same Mind. So Jesus led them to “laying down their human lives,” because they chose to follow him, as he was demonstrating. Jesus said that they would have to “drink from the same cup” that was literally willing to shed their blood as he was willing to do because this was part of their demonstration of their overcoming aka their Christing (metamorphic) task.

But hearing this perspective from DO, I admit was a tiny bit challenging for me to consider doing anything with a weapon, yet I knew TI nor DO would condone being violent. They considered the governments that murdered people and built weapons for that purpose as primitive savage “snakes” or “weeds”, while many in society see it at best as so called necessary evil, yet the only necessary evil as Jesus taught was in the provision of the Luciferian fallen angel space alien souls that provided our choices to go against God’s laws or not. Thus that presentation became a test of each students recognition of DO and whether they chose to override doubts and negative judgements of him or not.

It’s quite possible and even probable that the entire premise of laying down our vehicles by the hand of the govt was unlikely, at least at that time during the First Wave (Classroom), though could still apply into the future as it did after Jesus left, which is indicated in Jesus’ prophecy as occurring during the 5th Seal Opening time period. We are currently in the start of the 4th Seal Opening time period, that of the Green Horse (human vehicle) (Trump) – money, wealth being in charge which followed Obama as the “black or jacinth “horse” (human vehicle) that coincided with the wall street banking crisis in 2007-8. This followed the Red Horse (G.W. Bush and administration as the Red (Ruddy) horse who brought the endless war on terror, starting in 2000 after DO fulfilled the task of the White horse when he came public starting in the 1990’s in ways that can be documented to show demonstrating the remaining 6 of 7 roars (thunders) from the Lion of the Tribe of Juda.

But at this time, it seemed more and more apparent that DO saw the modus operandi of the Luciferian Space Alien “Fallen Angels” at this time as mostly to ignore He and TI and their returning crew of “saints”. That’s what prompted him to get bolder with what we claimed in the 1994 meeting posters and presentation, even stating in the last poster what the “shedding of our vehicles may be required”.

In the Portland, Oregon meeting in early 1994, that we do have on tape, DO expressed this to some degree, considering that we might have to get even bolder to put the truth in front of more people that could also generate a response that could assist us in our exit, as it did 2000 years ago, where people thought they were killing in God’s name.

The authorities have become the unwitting instruments of the lower forces of this planet, thus they will in many cases justify their agendas – the execution of atrocities all over the planet, seeing even their murders as “collateral damage” to keep their authority and profiteering.

DO had followed the Randy Weaver story that followed Waco and the Freemen story as well and though he never supported anyone’s enacting violence against anyone, knew that potential for us to become targets existed so he sought to prepare us for that, should it happen before or after he left. So like Jesus he was following his instruction from his Older Member to even bring up the subject of firearms, taking his clue in that regard from the Waco event. That’s the way the Next Level works, using human’s choices to convert them into a Next Level positive, in this case, completing their task which always involved leaving earth without our human vehicles.

Yes, Do thought about this and the part that Ben Zeller read was written by DO but what wasn’t nor understood was how DO updated that writing and in so doing took away that entire section about taking up firearms. He first posted the initial document, entitled, “Undercover Jesus Surfaces Before Departure” on September 25-26, 1995 and in January of 1997 updated it that even changed the title to: “Undercover “Jesus” Surfaces Before Departure”. Jesus was put in quotes because as they always said neither Ti nor Do were Jesus because Jesus was the name of the vehicle an Older Member from the Next Level (who TI said was DO) incarnated into to perform that task. (Though they always said from 1974-6 that all the Revelations prophecies would be fulfilled that included Jesus coming in the 7th and last “closeness” where they considered themselves as the 6th closeness and that that coming was not to be a “teaching one” (like the 6th was via the Two Witnesses task of delivery of new information via speaking).

Below I provide a link to my blog post that shows the full comparison of these two versions of Undercover “Jesus” where the part about obtaining a firearm was removed.

DO Reduces the Requirements to Leave with Him By Updating “Undercover Jesus Surfaces Before Departure”

Plus he never manipulated anyone – there were never any locked door or fences around our campgrounds. Keys to cars were locked up every night because some would leave in the middle of the night sometimes and Ti and Do didn’t want to lose a car to them. Money was locked up for the same reason. Doors were locked to keep people from the outside from coming in. But I don’t recall phones were disconnected at night though we often had someone up all night doing a night watch task. If someone wanted to leave Ti and Do preferred they tell them and they always tried to help them with a bus or airplane ticket and sometimes with a car and/or some money as was the case with me. I was given a plane ticket and $600 in cash. They still almost always moved soon after someone would leave if Ti and Do felt they might reveal where we were, in case a private eye was looking for someone.

DO never entertained mounting any kind of attack against the government or to do any violent act against anyone ever (Their exit method was not violent. It was as gentle as one could imagine leaving one’s vehicle could be – the vehicle dying in one’s sleep).

However, further addressing that part of the Undercover…” post Ben Zeller read in Episode 6 was what came after describing – Believers in Them taking a stand, not being submissive to authorities (though not breaking any laws either) and how that could eventually lead to those authorities becoming the aggressors and seeing radicals with firearms as a threat to the public so could facilitate their exit of their vehicles.

DO was simply following his instruction from TI by outlining an option that the Next Level would find an acceptable way to both show our commitment to the Next Level by following, if we so chose, and as a way to lay down our vehicles to exit should authorities bring trumpeted up charges against us individually or as a group and not having to submit to them and their treatment of us. He made those posts in 1995, approx. 6 months or more after he had outlined for the entire class the procedure for self exiting that he still continued then to prepare for.

I know DO bought at least one rifle which I read about in Rio’s book saying Strody (a classmate with a 60 something year old female vehicle) did some target shooting when they were building what they called a “fortress” near Mansano, New Mexico. Rio didn’t indicate there was a program for all to learn to shoot the rifle.

I’m not sure where I got this, but thought if we got a rifle we would load it with blanks and/or learn to shoot above the heads of someone so if it was to be used it would appear to be a real threat. I can’t actually say I recall DO saying that so perhaps it was how I first dealt with the idea after the Waco murders of the Branch Davidians when DO first brought up the idea. It wasn’t an easy idea for me to handle as it faced me at the time with just how far I would go in my commitment to DO. Would I shoot someone, if I was given that instruction, I asked myself and what I felt was that I wouldn’t be asked to do that. But I did not question DO’s bringing it up and considering it, so like everything in the classroom it felt like another test that I would pass and it would not be the last such test.

The way I heard Frank speak of that classroom it sounded as if he resented the procedures, saying we had to “toe the line” as if it was drudgery as opposed to performing our task assignments with a sense of feeling very happy and even honored to do so. He said we were to “stay under the radar”, as if we were hiding when a huge part of the classroom overcoming process was to want to be transparent and to enjoy being watched all the time. In this context it would have only been a negative to be watched if we sought to hide something. I think from Franks admission he had something to hide thus appears to have resented being under that Next Level microscope.

Franks case and I, Sawyer also engaged in some deceit and tried to hide some of my behaviors. But to be clear this isn’t always totally conscious, so it may be mostly in hindsight that Frank has developed his apparent disdain for DO and the classroom experience.

Ti and DO used to compare their task on earth to being “undercover” and dropped behind enemy lines to where the only lifeline they had was their remote communication with the Next Level and that the task was so important that they didn’t want to say or do anything that would jeopardize the successful completion of that task. I didn’t see that as illusionary thinking. It made perfect sense to me. But a big part of being undercover was in the procedures they had to use to verify they are receiving instructions from their “heavenly Father” as opposed to the efforts of a human or human equivalent trickster. Before Ti left her vehicle she had taught DO how to engage that “checking” process. Part of that was running things by his “helpers” and/or “overseers”. But that was often combined with his observations of events in the world, with the Waco event.

The basis of having “check partners” was to perform all our tasks with more confidence we were working in accordance to our Older Member’s wishes. And partners were to help us be to our partners a “mirror” other sets of eyes to help us see our self and what we might be thinking, saying or doing differently from what our Older Members had taught. That is what Jesus meant by making one’s eye single – having 100% concentration on one aim – to follow our Older Member wherever he goes and in whatever he would have us do.

We needed to want to be subject to that “radar”. It was part of becoming crew minded and not seeking to shine for shining sake. “Behaving” – living according to the provided behaviors and ways, “Following procedures, the rules, to those that truly wanted to be there were very satisfying, very fulfilling and purposeful feeling. Anyone that has worked in a team effort knows how great it feels to be part of that team and how fun it is to work together as different spokes in the wheel and for those that were fully there, I know they felt that.

I’m not suggesting Frank didn’t experience a lot of this pride and satisfaction, but at least in the way he spoke that was put together by the Pineapple Street crew it would seem he has forgotten about or sees in a different light now.

We developed a lot of procedures surrounding our need to feed these vehicles, to set up the preparation of food as an experiment, which I see as ingenious – simulating the real deal of training to meet the qualifications of becoming a crew member in laboratories that are involved in the mechanics of a vast creation.

So Frank calls DO “controlling” and says he got even more controlling after TI left her vehicle, but the facts are that if one wants to consider him ever to be “controlling”, he became less of that after TI left.

If he became more controlling, then why did he send us back to visit families again in 1987? Why wasn’t their sending us to visit families in 1985 enough after the first 10 years of no such visits. The first visit was spoken of by Ti and Do as relieving anxieties family members had that they became most aware of when they found out about the Newsletter Nancy Brown started. It was because of that visit that Rthody decided to leave and is when Frank and Erika who traveled together would have had the chance to run away together and when I could have run away with “sarah” as we two traveled together (and I felt on the airplane and in a car with her, I did wonder if she was coming on to me, but I ignored it.

Starting in 1987 DO brought in a bunch of books, some about UFO’s, abduction reports, close encounters, UFO Crash at Aztec, that included autopsy reports from Dr. Leonard Stringfield. He started up a little video project I was on the committee for. He sent Lggody and others to UFO conferences in Arkansas and Nevada to video interview leading ufologists.

He started us into all kinds of health and longevity research. We had a little company called, ALERT (Advanced Life Extension Research Team). He had us publish a book called the Transfiguration Diet. I was assigned to drive one of our little carpools. I’d drop off classmates at their “out of craft tasks” (jobs in the world) and then go to mine by myself and during my lunch hour, I chose to visit book stores of my choosing to sell books. I could have easily just cashed my check one day and drove off with a Cadillac. I remember one time even having that thought, though it wasn’t a thought I had been entertaining so it had no affect on me, nor did I have any reason to want to leave.

It seemed we had more frequent times when we were required to spend 20 minutes or so opening the door of our minds to whether there was something in the world we wanted. When that time period was over we were to resume blocking out such thoughts. However, if we had been entertaining such thoughts it would have strengthened such thoughts.

DO offered students $2000 to leave the classroom saying he didn’t want anyone staying because of fear of going back into the world and because life in the classroom had become easy – communal living, no worry about the things humans had to worry about like paying bills, keeping a job, dealing with life in what TI called the “real world” as ours was a simulation of life on a spacecraft and if one person lost a job it didn’t break the bank.

DO brought in more books related to the bible – Strong’s concordance, 4-5 versions of the Bible, Dakes, the Parallel, an Amplified, the dead sea scrolls, about the Essenes, the Nag Hammadi library, the Inner Earth evidence from Admiral Byrd’s expedition and even the book Holy Blood Holy Grael that depicted Jesus tricking people to think he had died and resurrected and instead went to live in France where he started a family. That was not the story we thought happened so DO was providing us with that thinking and I don’t recall that he talked about the book.

DO wrote “’88 Update The UFO Two and their Crew”, in which he revealed before he had awakened how he had been leading a homosexual lifestyle. Who knows whether learning that tested some.

Srrody and I started two companies (DBA’s). One we called, Think Link and the second one was called Word Wise and we tried to secure contract programming jobs and got a few but we were on our own to plan what we would do and how.

Srrody and I started training classmates to do computer programming work. DO didn’t give us procedures on how to do that. Students who were intested in that line of work volunteered. Chkody was one of them, with Glnody.

We started making crosses out of fine/rare woods and inlayed semi-precious stones in some of them. Prkody (who left before Frank and has since died) was a primary and Srrody and I were on the crew and we ended up selling them. Do left us on our own as to their design as there are many different kinds of crosses.

When we dealt with the public at times we started being more honest about who we were, saying we were a monastic group. I remember when Lggody was assigned the primary position to design a portable stand for the two 7 foot diameter satellite dishes we had. I was Lggody’s check partner and he was brother Logan and I was brother Sawyer to the people we bought supplies from. That was a change from hiding the true nature of our group.

I never saw Ti nor Do as controlling anyway. If Frank didn’t want to be there, which he indicated was the case, then he was seeing what he chose to “see”. There was no manipulation and the controls were all voluntary so can’t be rightfully considered controlling.

We were taught to fully control our own vehicles, whether that meant not letting out gas outside the “bath chamber” or not allowing our vehicle to dwell on the past or on sensuality or even in imagining ways to fix the human world.

Finally, I will show how DO actually relaxed certain “controls” as to who could qualify to catch the eye of a member of the Level Above Human. This is shown by the differences between the first and last versions of the document DO wrote entitled, ‘Undercover “Jesus” Surfaces Before Departure’. At first he expressed that “laying down” of one’s human body was needed to demonstrate one’s bond and leave with him to not be among those who are recycled. He changed it to “preparing to lay down one’s body” while not disqualifying that one could die from natural causes and still have their Soul saved for a future classroom. He also removed the prospect of taking up a firearm so the authorities might assist one in exiting their vehicle (not by doing any harm to anyone with it but just by having it when one might be apprehended by authorities for being a radical and not choosing to submit to being taken to jail on trumped up charges, for example).

As shown by my post on the way DO reduced the qualifications to leaving with him, the edit/update of Undercover “Jesus”… demonstrates without question less “control” over who could aspire to advance towards their own graduation.

Nor did DO demonstrate that “controlling and manipulative” person Frank and others try to paint him as, when Frank told DO he wanted to leave. Is asking him if he is sure evidence of controlling and manipulation? Lets say one of our kids who became an adult didn’t want to follow in the footsteps of their parents – to join and help run the parents’ company. Wouldn’t a good parent try to remind their offspring what they are giving up? That was DO appealing to that part of He and Ti’s Mind that was still in Andody’s vehicle – Frank. DO was showing how he cared for Andody to face him with that prospect. DO didn’t say no, he couldn’t leave or didn’t delay his leaving nor have students try to talk him out of it. Remember Frank had become DO’s student for around 17 years at that point and that meant passing by many “tests.”

Finally, Frank says when he was preparing to leave, “classmates were hovering around to make sure I didn’t take anything I wasn’t supposed to take,” another example of how he was in his own world as we had no instruction to watch him that I was aware of and I was one that took him to the airport. However perhaps Srrody did receive instructions to sort of usher him out of the classroom and that could have included giving back the silver wedding bands we wore, that DO gave us to represent our marriage to him (that TI before she left had told us to show to DO our commitment to him). DO at first started to wear a silver wedding band and then he had an event to where each student received one and he spent time with each student, silently as a more formal solidification of what that ring represented.

It’s interesting how that “marriage” relationship was described by Jesus related to the students in the end time. And it’s also interesting how the Luciferian space alien fallen angels stimulated a facsimile event with the Moonies where they had a huge mass marriage but not to him but to other students and it was nothing like in Ti and Do’s group as they really got married in the states eyes and I imagine were sexual and perhaps some went on to propagate, a distortion of what Jesus taught as for “angels” (in the making even) there is no marriage (as we think of marriage) and no propagation of the species. However, that wasn’t saying if one was married before they made their commitment to the Next Level entirely that they were not able to “marry” their Older Member. That option exists for as long as we each have a human vehicle.

It’s simply human mammalian behaviors needing to be outgrown to literally graduate into Next Level membership.

Glynn say’s DO became “more cruel” but where was there any evidence anywhere that he was ever cruel. What was cruel about he and Ti’s sending 19 students who followed them away from the group? What was cruel about spending all their money they received from donations on us, outfitting us to live outdoors for the first 3+ years without income?

Frank described Erika in the start of this podcast as being “loving, compassionate, bright, and intuitive” and yet he paints a picture of the individual (DO) who she, in the name of Chkody loved and gave her life to, as psychotic, manipulating and controlling and having lost his objectivity that led to her and the other student’s committing suicide. That doesn’t say much about her brightness and intuition.

What’s controlling and manipulative is shown in much of these podcasts, and in this episode in particular by putting such a focus on what Frank says to paint a picture to people that DO was controlling and cruel just like what was done to paint Ti as hypocritical in episode 4. None of these involved with this project are operating with a completely informed perspective so they might want to restrain publicly expressing their negativity. Like Jesus said the way we judge others will be the way we are judged. That’s because we become believers in our own judgement, so continue to draw to us the ramifications of having that judgement and we then become forced to “act it out”, which is why there has been an exponential increase in mass shootings, etc.

To me it’s also manipulative to depict Glynn’s early in life experience in a Christian “cult” that was hardly a cult at all comparing it to the Heaven’s Gate cult when there was nothing about them that were alike except for the references to things Biblical and of Jesus. It can easily be shown that all the religions and even today’s anti-religion groups are far from their origin in the case of Christians from the cultish Jesus teachings.

It’s easy to see how Glynn’s cult experience was not evidenced to have much of the real Jesus in it, thus why it did become an example of Luciferian influenced corruption as Jesus said would happen and spoke to as their being “false Christ(ians),” not even knowing what it means to be engaged in the Christing process – coming to trick people who can be tricked into thinking they are serving the One True Kingdom of God when they don’t know Him hardly, if at all. This is on a person by person basis and even if we do recognize the many ways we’ve been tricked, we can still change and the best advise for that is to seek what’s most true at any cost to previous ideas. That can only happen if we project our asking beyond the stars to reach the highest source we can imagine and then proceeding as a seeker – busting past previous limitations of what what might look like.

I’ve written about the dozens of examples that show how Ti and Do demonstrated the same behaviors and ways and requirements of students that Jesus required to join his cult and yet I get no time to say anything about any of that.

Most of the only things they ended up using from the interviews I gave were things they could use to paint a distorted, hypothetically inaccurate negative slanted picture of the real Ti and Do and crew.

Another example of their focusing on anything that painted a negative picture of Ti and Do and their class was shown in how David (Alxody) during one of his two visits to his vehicle’s family was videoed twisting a phone cord in his fingers. Perhaps it was nervous energy as he was subject to scrutiny from his brother(s) around then, but perhaps he always had some nervous energy. We all knew he had a lot of force. The point is why spend any time on that when there are hundreds of things to focus on that could directly inform the listener to more of the truth about Ti and Do and their group.

With all this said, I do still appreciate hearing all of what they found to put together into this series and I know the pressure of being a somewhat mainstream media organizations that needs to attract advertisers and not upset certain people in high places is enormous to negotiate and of course the status quo thinking is overwhelmingly against even considering for a second that Ti and Do could have been exactly who they said they were.

 

 

No Real Comparison of Jonestown suicides with Heaven’s Gate

At the end is the link to an article that compared Jonestown to Heaven’s Gate that I show really has little to no genuine equivalent comparison other than both their groups membership physically dying by ingesting drugs under the leadership of one leader. Based on that one could equate the president of a country as a dangerous cult leader who stimulates their soldiers to give their lives which I know to many seems preposterous to compare but is it really?

On the surface these two groups can be barely compared and I don’t doubt that from a membership prospective there were some tiny likenesses but other than that there is no comparison except in the use of poison to end their vehicles lives.

To follow are  some of the many huge differences that reveal this comparison as a typical Luciferian Soul “facsimile” production of what Ti and Do were doing. And it’s interesting how some of those who initially joined with Ti and Do in 1975, from the first meeting in North Hollywood around April 21st thought that they (Ti and Do) were promoting suicide both literally and figuratively which was not the case literally then, even if one did define suicide by it’s human definition as self stimulated death of one’s body. Figuratively speaking Ti and Do’s group were more realistically ending their human lifestyle entirely where in the Jones camp humanness was not changed at all really according to the evidence. Some of what I’m saying about the fear of suicide came from Joan Culpepper (more of an infiltrator into the group than a follower as she stated). Plus there was a relative of a student who testified her fear of their committing suicide in 1975 (about three years before the Jonestown event) that was documented in the book “UFO Missionaries Extraordinary.” Here are some snippets of that book on this blog:

UFO Missionaries Extraordinary

So here are the key differences that are major in the Jonestown People Temples group that there was not even a shade of indicator of in the Heaven’s Gate group:

1. Children were forced to drink the poison cocktail. One can see and hear it in the video with Jones preaching to do it while people are crying. Ti and Do didn’t allow children in their group.

2. If only one person disagreed and was forced to ingest the poison cocktail the entire idea could not be compared with Heaven’s Gate group. This was evidenced in the Jonestown story by video testimony and survivors. Some people who fled that last meeting were hunted down by gunmen. People were held at gunpoint to ingest the poison according to the records. In the Heaven’s Gate group people were challenged to leave throughout and 19 of the initial 100 members in 1976 were separated from the larger group and Ti and Do said they didn’t make the “first cut” on who they thought could accomplish the task of overcoming all their humanness.

3. Murder of the congressman at the airport as they attempted to leave was also a huge indicator of how different Jonestown was from Heaven’s Gate. The records indicate that Jim Jones was stimulated to take this action to escape prosecution when he learned that some in his group had passed notes to the congressman saying that they wanted to get out.

4. The People’s temple was a human social and political group. Heaven’s Gate was not social nor political. Spirituality seemed to be mostly absent from the documentaries I watched but if it was a big part was not any different from other spiritual and/or religious groups that had political and community support before they moved to Guyana. Heaven’s Gate wasn’t religious or spiritual in that context. The only reason they are considered religious is because it is through the man made worldly religions that the records of the Next Level’s incarnate activity was passed on and because the nature of the information was about Mind – “the character of the soul” as DO once defined Mind, that he taught was synonymous with the word, “spirit”.

5. Members of the People’s Temple did not leave everything behind to join with Jones – mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, children, houses, etc. (as Jesus taught some of his disciples had done (i.e. Mat 19:29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. ) and that all Ti and Do’s students were instructed to do (though there was no way to verify that any one student had done but it was talked about as having an “ace in the hole” for those that didn’t. However I read one report that indicated Ti and Do turned away at least one person who was considering joining with them. She had children and it was reported that Ti and Do said she shouldn’t follow with them at that time and that perhaps she might follow later (See UFO Missionaries Extraordinary)).

Jones and his group were a human organization with human family values and human behaviors that they took with them to Guyana, including relationships among members and sexuality and punishments for non-compliance. Ti and Do’s group members did not continue human relationships with anyone back in the world nor with one another when some joined who had such a relationship. (I was one of those who joined with my former partner I had lived with for 5 years and for the first ten years had zero communication with my vehicle’s family back in New York. The only relationships Ti and Do’s student had were as fellow crew members. There was no chit chatting or gossip or shooting the breeze or having best friends or confidants or “familiarity” among certain members (though we still enjoyed one anthers camaraderie and companionship and friendship and personalities and helpfulness (within the behaviors and ways Ti and Do taught that are most synopsized in the lists referred to as the “Seventeen Steps” and the “Major and Lessor Offenses” – that are in the Heaven’s Gate Book and posted on the Heavensgate.com web site and posted on my blog:

Ti and Do’s Major and Lessor Offense List

6. The idea that the Jonestown people were forming a utopia on earth was totally absent with the Heaven’s Gate group. According to Ti and Do’s teachings there was no “heaven on earth” in that way, at least not during the current civilization. They did say in the future, if humans showed the Next Level that they had evolved to be civilized – like not choosing to shoot at beings from other worlds, for example then the earth could be made into a Next Level Base aka a Heavenly Body where Members of the Next Level could be seen coming and going but still would not live among humans. They talked about how there were other planets where human equivalent beings were growing in ways totally unlike in the earth’s human kingdom because humans were somewhat unique because of the presence of the Luciferian space alien fallen angels they permitted to become catalysts for the growth of souls. There could be another planet but it would only be equivalent to earth if some human equivalent to Luciferians were also present but they mostly felt there wasn’t another such earth/human equivalent planet. (Some of this can be seen talked about in the Blackhawk tapes and a little in the book UFO Missionaries Extraordinary). For the Blackhawk tapes one can search my Youtube channel named: 3SPM for “Blackhawk” and find three posts of those audios made into videos.

With Ti and Do’s Heaven’s Gate group the idea from the start was that we were all going to exit the earth, always potentially with our bodies but certainly as Souls for those who qualified. I doubt there were any qualifications to join with Jim Jones (but I could be wrong about that, but if there were I’d bet they were human qualification characteristics (humanitarianism) verses Above Human characteristic qualifications), many of which are in the records that came through a number of what became religions.

7. There were no abuses in Ti and Do’s group. There were never any sexual misconduct that I witnessed and none that were reported by the hundreds of followers over the years who dropped out. There was no punishment for not living by the “procedures” (rules) except for being sent out of the group. Some were sent out of the group and a number of those returned in unusual ways as there were only two “recruitment” periods from 1975 to 1976 and from 1993 (via media) and for about 9 months face to face in meetings around the US and Canada in 1994 and then via internet media by the presence of the Heaven’s Gate web site and postings to Usenet groups that one person joined from and was among the 38 who layed down their lives.

(By the way, “recruitment” was nothing like many groups I’ve both read about and experienced, like the Moonies for instance. We never stood on corners to sell flowers or anything else with the hope of drawing people to our meetings with an offer of food and then once there those who came would learn they needed to sit through their presentation before they’d be fed. It’s sort of the model of the Salvation Army. The entire “recruitment” effort was simply putting up posters on storefronts and bulletin boards in New age centers and health food stores and on telephone poles around the town where we planned a public meeting. Sometimes we got some free press and/or radio and/or TV coverage. People would come to the meeting and listen for a short time and take some questions and then were told if anyone wanted more information to stay after in which case sometimes even some who though they might want to join us were faced with details that dissuaded them. Nothing was ever hidden and there were not carrots put before a person’s eyes, so to speak. However, one might think the idea that they were joining with true Representatives from the Kingdom of Heaven could be a carrot but Ti and Do and their Students didn’t need to have more members so had no interest in cajoling anyone.)

8. Plus the way DO and crew laid down their lives was never rehearsed as it was with the Jonestown group. In the Jonestown group they had a number of rehearsals but the members of the community weren’t told they were rehearsals according to one or more survivor reports. People drank the drink that they were told had poison in it and nothing happened to them, so that became a conditioning to the act. DO did ask on several or more occasions each member of the group if they had any reservations about taking their exit into their own hands by drinking the phenobarbital mixture. One such time was when I was still in the group in September of 1994 that included over a dozen new (or returning) members. From that person by person question one new student said they had reservations and left the group the next day. Another who was a former member named Arrody left shortly after that for the same reason I read reported. One can think that too was conditioning but if anything the conditioning was to filter out those who weren’t clearly in favor of taking the action, the same kind of filtering that had occurred by many examples over the 19 years I witnessed that can be seen in this blog post:

Pineapple Street Heaven’s Gate Episode 1 Podcast re: Doubt in Ti and Do’s Classroom, Tests as a “Filter”

I’m not proposing that the Jonestown event as a Luciferian facsimile attempt to discredit Ti and Do’s authenticity meant that the people in the Jonestown event were necessarily casualties or their their souls and/or Spirits were not kept by the Next Level because of their willingness to sacrifice their human lives in this world. I don’t say that without evidence from DO. For instance, after watching the murder of the David Koresh group, the Branch Davidians in Waco, Texas I recall DO saying that he wondered if his students would stick to their convictions the way they did, though not condoning those who used violence. To me that meant that some of those could have been seen by the Next Level as doing the best they could do. The point is, even if someone is murdered or kills themselves we don’t know how that Soul or Spirit will be judged by the Next Level. That judgement starts with the way each of us believe and act while living. We judge ourselves and then when it’s all done the Next Level salvages those they deem to still have the capacity to advance towards Next Level membership in a future opportunity. Like DO said as the 3rd Type of individual who would be “saved” from the recycling, they might have never heard of Ti and Do but separated from their worldliness in their own way. Do can be seen speaking of this in his video, “Last Chance to Evacuate Earth Before It’s Recycled” a video that was transcribed and found on my blog:

https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2015/09/17/last-chance-to-evacuate-earth-before-its-recycled-transcript-from-dos-videotape/

Here is the article that stimulated this blog post response:

Jonestown and Heaven’s Gate were supposed to be utopias. How did it go so wrong?
When a dream becomes dystopia. By Amos Barshad
https://www.thefader.com/2017/10/26/jonestown-and-heavens-gate-were-supposed-to-be-utopias-how-did-it-go-so-wrong

 

Pineapple Street Heaven’s Gate Episode 1 Podcast re: Doubt in Ti and Do’s Classroom, Tests as a “Filter”

Below is the access information for the Pineapple Street Podcast Series Heaven’s Gate and followed by Sawyers comments to each episode:

Pineapple Press Podcast Series – Heaven’s Gate
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/stitcher/heavens-gate
twitter: @heavensgateshow
facebook /heavensgateshow

Episode one: The Seekers

Sawyer’s comments:

Franks statement used in a misleading way and the background re: having doubts in the classroom and how students were constantly “tested” on whether they wanted to be in the classroom or not, as they were always free to leave:

In episode one of the Heaven’s Gate podcast, at the 8 minute mark, the host starts to go over a description of what some of the 38 students said in the exit videos they made days before laying down their human lives.

In the short intro, after students Mllody and Jwnody’s exit video clips are played, the host says, “Some may even have had doubts at the end” and they play a clip around the 8 minute mark that was Frank, not one of the 38.

(Frank is the human name he uses to date. In the Heaven’s Gate “Classroom” he was Andody. He dropped out in 1993, about a year before I did and has told me on several occasions over the years that he thought DO diverged from what TI had taught that led to leading the class into suicide because of DO’s alleged problem with his vehicle’s homosexuality, if I recall correctly. This opinion can be linked to Robert Balch’s writings and conclusion that I believe I’ve read also from Benjamin Zeller as well).

Clip of Frank:

“It just felt, that conflict of, I’m scared shitless but I’m going to do this anyway because I don’t know what else to do”.

I hadn’t heard Franks voice in over 15 years and it changed a great deal from how I remembered it, so at first I wondered who in the exit video’s said that. I wondered if I missed it somehow though I’ve listened to them all maybe three times over the last 20 years. It didn’t make any sense to me, the wording, nor that DO would have someone in the class that was filled with that much doubt about what they were about to do and at exit time.

Here’s why I say that:

Doubts in the Classroom and Events that became FILTERING TESTS of who would STAND UP for their commitment to TI and DO and their Overcoming of Humanness Process:

Here is a brief overview of the events that led up to many leaving the classroom – because of having doubts. I am calling them “tests” and a type of filter. Because they were tests, even though they weren’t often presented in that way, if someone was “on the fence” with their full commitment, they served to face them with getting off that fence, one way or the other, leave the classroom or stay on and become stronger for doing so.

Doubts were expected but learning how to recognize them and counteract them, and not give them energy, extinguishing them was part of the overcoming process that was a self administered “washing” of our brains from their humanness via TI and DO’s instructions – Their “Holy” Mind aka Spirit.

I’m starting from when the self stimulated exit was first brought up directly as there were times before that, when it surfaced indirectly that I’ll add later:

1) In August of 1994 after 9 months of giving public meetings, where we nearly doubled our numbers from the original 24 who had survived, which was the Second and Last “Wave” of public interface in 18 years, DO said in a meeting with all present, something very close to, “it seems that we will need to exit our vehicles by our own hands”.

A couple weeks before then we had a meeting where DO provided us with a poster to use in what would become our last public meeting, for me, as an overseer of one of the groups, was near Portsmouth, New Hampshire, which is when the idea of self exiting our vehicles was first introduced. Here is the poster:

Poster used in Aug. 1994 entitled: The Shedding of Our Borrowed Human Bodies May Be Required

(It’s in the Heaven’s Gate Book – Section 6 – Page 11)

After that meeting with DO we all traveled back to California and some of us resumed the IT jobs we had with Subscriber Computing, Inc. in Laguna Hills, California that we gave up during the 9 months on the road giving meetings.

-Then in September of 1994 while I was still in the group, DO held a meeting in San Clemente, where DO had rented a warehouse, where most of the class was living where he detailed the exit method of drinking a strong barbiturate mixture and asked every individual one by one around the room if they “had any reservations” about acting on this planned exit method. I recall one new student expressing reservations but learned that another did after that meeting. They both left in the next couple days. Carlan (Crlody) is witness to this.

One of those two students who left in 1994 who had reservations about the exit method had just joined that year and another who was Arrody had re-joined in 1994 having initially joined in 1975-6 and had left the class either right before or right after Ti left her vehicle. I don’t know why he left that first time but it wasn’t long after we received the option to listen to music for pleasure (Classical, Gilbert and Sullivan and Kitaro) was discontinued because Arrody was spending too much time listening and getting into it too much, when there were all sorts of ways to help the forward motion of the craft. It wasn’t meant to be a favorite pastime and most in the class were not exercising that option as far as I knew, but I had a full time day job as I think Arrody also had. I think I recall that “in-crafters” – those without jobs in the world, would listen to music as background at times during the day. So perhaps that was a test for Arrody, whether he could choose to listen in the way a member of the Next Level would, so could have been part of the reason he left or perhaps it was a coincidence.

Backing up many years, from the start Ti and Do, by following their step wise instructions from their Older Members, seemed to put things into motion that acted to test our commitment and thus filter out those didn’t rise to the requirements to stay in the classroom – those they didn’t think were ready to go the distance of totally overcoming all their humanness. They put things into motion well before they knew exactly what was to come, (as they always said they were only given instructions a step ahead of their student body because how and when new “steps” were instigated was based on the free will choices of each student), well before they considered “laying down their and/or our vehicles, (aka suicide). It was interesting to watch this for 19 years.

To follow are the primary examples of how they employed “tests”, that I am aware of. TI and DO expressed that when they received instructions sometimes they knew it would be a test for some and sometimes they warned us that it was a test as can be heard in the Blackhawk audio tapes posted on my Youtube channel: 3SPM :  (Here is Blackhawk tape 1 of 3):

They didn’t conjure up tests. They received instructions they recognized would be tests for some – the instigation of certain things to think about and/or do, that many times would challenge us all, though they said none were more than we could handle – if we sought to employ their help – the ways they taught to combat the negatives that became the criteria for the test.

For instance one time we moved the entire camp of around 30 tents and after we were almost done setting up, they gave instructions to move again that same day to a very short distance away. I remember feeling exhausted and wondering why, but didn’t let that thought linger. I wasn’t conscious that I was responding negatively to what they were providing. It’s only looking back and recalling it that I remember that negative response. None the less, it was a minor negativity for me and I said nothing and I didn’t think poorly about Ti and Do or question being with them at all. It was mostly because I didn’t want to do the work of moving the tents again. So I don’t really count this as one of the tests in the list because it was small a test, yet who knows how others felt.

2) The first big test for some came when Ti and Do came to know that the “Demonstration” was cancelled or postponed.

Here is what DO wrote in “Statement I” that was mailed to people that stimulated their first meeting invitation that DO wrote while in jail for 6 months waiting for the St. Louis prosecutor to make a case against  him (since charges had been dropped by the Rental Car Company), that describes the “Demonstration”:

There are two individuals here now who have also come from that next kingdom, incarnate as humans, awakened, and will soon demonstrate the same proof of overcoming death. They are “sent” from that kingdom by the “Father” to bear the same truth that was Jesus’. This is like a repeat performance, except this time by two (a man and a woman) to restate the truth Jesus bore, restore its accurate meaning, and again show that any individual who seeks that kingdom will find it through the same process. This “re-statement” or demonstration will happen within months. The two who are the “actors” in this “theatre” are in the meantime doing all they can to relate this truth as accurately as possible so that when their bodies recover from their “dead” state (resurrection) and they leave (UFO’s) those left behind will have clearly understood the formula.

Those who can believe this process and do it will be “lifted up” individually and “saved” from death – literally. If you seek those two while they are here they will gladly fill you in on the details and assist those who wish to follow in this “path.”

It is interesting that even though the demonstration of death overcome was not physically visible, I later realized when I first started to analyze this history with regard to the Revelation chapter 11 prophecy of the Two Witnesses that they were first to be “subdued”, stated as “overcome” in most translations with a time period in between when they would then “separate by dying themselves” the best translation of the Greek phrase “apokteino auto” most translated in various Bibles as “kill them”, but where “auto” also  means “themselves” and apokteino is as a compound word where “apo” as a prefix means “separate” or “exit” or “take away from” (their Soul taken away from their vehicle).

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies (shall lie) in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

Some people translate apokteino as “kill (or even just) “destroy” or “ruin”, “in any way”, not just by dying. Ti and Do did feel “ruined” as DO stated in the booklet he wrote entitled, “’88 Update – The UFO Two and their Crew”:

Also the words “dead bodies” did not appear in the manuscripts. The Greek word, “ptoma”  from the alternate of “pipto” = “a ruin” but from “peto, kin to petomai provides the “idea of alighting; to fall (literally or figuratively); fall down or light on. There are only two other usages of “ptoma” besides the three usages here in Rev 11. One of those two translates it to “carcase” but can just as easily be ruin:

Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles ((from Greek aer (an eagle from it’s wind like flight))) be gathered together.

Here is the same information in Lukes gospel that has a different Greek word “soma” used to translate into “body”:

Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body ((soma=body)), thither will the eagles ((from Greek aer (an eagle from it’s wind like flight))) be gathered together.

So this “dead body” translation would be more accurately “ruined body” or just ruin which is what happened to Ti and Do when the national news came out and told the world by Walter Cronkite that these Two were charlatans and were felons from Texas so couldn’t possibly be from outer space taking people to heaven on a spacecraft. When Ti and Do saw that news they both thought their “mission was dead”. They were in Las Vegas at the time and after 3 days felt they received instructions from their Older Member (from a spacecraft) to tell the students they felt this was the shooting down in the streets and then continue on with meetings, which they did and then  on April 21st Ti called a halt to meetings and neither held another public meeting to complete their 1260 days of prophecy speaking.

Then after the period of time said as 3 1/2 days, where “days” is equally translated as a time period, also said in Rev 12 as a “time, times and a half a time” which I can say a  lot about, that  amounts to two such periods that were designed to be flexible as the Next Level doesn’t know exactly  what humans will choose to do when they hear the information for their in the flesh (incarnate) Representatives, they “exit by dying themselves” – apokteino auto.

So continuing on with what DO wrote about that time:

One of the hardest things that Ti and Do had to do concerned the “demonstration” (referred to in Statement I). The students had been told that while they were out holding meetings they would hear of the demonstration, and that would be the signal to stop holding meetings and come running. It was rumored for a while that the demonstration was going to happen in San Francisco. Ti and Do were in Las Vegas when the TV network news programs all broke the story about the two. Now because of the kind of publicity that had come out across the country, climaxed by the networks, Ti and Do felt that further meetings were pretty hopeless and people had already made up their minds about how ridiculous this all was. Ti and Do felt that the demonstration was still the one thing that could change that. However, they grieved literally for days, feeling like they had been shot down by the media and the mission was dead.

They received instruction to not walk into a physical demonstration but rather to know that the “killing in the street” of the two witnesses had occurred at the hands of the media. However, they felt like this was a cop-out or a “chickening out” interpretation of the one act that was the basis of their whole following. So, with much embarrassment, they called their students together, convinced that without a physical demonstration, their students would have every right to call them charlatans. Much to their surprise, the students, almost without exception, accepted the interpretation and said, “OK then, where do we go from here”?

Ti and Do still felt that to continue was probably one of their greatest tests. Nevertheless, they got up, kicked the dust off their tired feet, and continued with the instruction to hold meetings a while longer. They then became more organized in their groups and more systematic with their communication between cities. All in all, the meetings continued for a little over ten months.

So the literal  physical ascension of their bodies into a spacecraft was laid out in such a way in prophecy that it could have happened exactly as described or could have equally pertained to the physical “soul body” that they always said was growing inside of our human bodies – comparing it to a caterpillar growing a new body inside it’s cocoon/chrysalis condition that would then fly away, but in that case might not be visible to the human eye, thus another “test” of whether or not we can see it because of wanting to understand it and thus being given that understanding by the Next Level – “eyes to see, ears to hear”. They spoke about that growing physical body at that point in 1975 and thereafter as “body changes”.

Thus this was the first big test as DO wrote and I guess at least one He knew of dropped out at that point, indicated by his saying “almost without exception”:

Much to their surprise, the students, almost without exception, accepted the interpretation and said, “OK then, where do we go from here”?

re: what Ti and Do always described as “body changes” is shown possible by Jesus’ example of healing and demonstrating his new body that came from the old one. Christians refer to Jesus body after he healed his body from it’s dead state as having a “glorified body.” Jesus went on to demonstrate his new body’s capabilities – appearing and disappearing, and defying gravity as shown in his calming of the waves on the sea and when he exited by physically ascending to be received by a “cloud” (Covering). Jesus said that  he was not a spirit:

Luk 24:34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
Luk 24:35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Luk 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
Luk 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
Luk 24:43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

TI and DO told us that they felt Jesus completed his “change over” at the time described in the records as the Transfiguration:

Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Mar 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
Mar 9:3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
Mar 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

Luke adds a key piece not found in either Matthew or Mark’s account, showing that these two “men” as Luke referred to Elias and Moses were delivering a message at least one of them understood. In other words this was when Jesus was given instructions to “lay his body down” of his own volition which could be equated with a type of suicide as he knew well the Jewish leadership hated him and had tried a number of times to stone him and were shown later to have conspired for a way to capture him and have the Romans kill him. While addressing this, here is where Jesus directly says he was going to die on his Father’s instruction and that the humans were not taking his life from him. He was laying it down as the show of the greatest love one could show another, in this case his students, the sheep given to him by his Father to shepherd?

Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Continuing on with when he received that instruction while on the Transfiguration mount:

Luk 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

Mar 9:5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mar 9:6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
Mar 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Mar 9:8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
Mar 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
Mar 9:10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
Mar 9:11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Mar 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
Mar 9:13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

Ti and Do never dropped the prospect that they could do the Demonstration in the way they first thought might happen and DO never dropped the idea that they could board the spacecraft with their human vehicles, which is part of why I think they took out Abduction Insurance and packed travel bags they kept alongside when they laid down their vehicles to die.

I don’t doubt that TI could have healed them all or for some if their human vehicles had changed over enough could have healed themselves from the ingestion of the strong barbiturate, which shows some potential in:

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Yet TI and DO taught that such “miracles” are not given to those that still have a chance to graduate into Next Level membership with their current human vehicle as a big part of overcoming was not having that kind of proof because then the Mind/Spirit has not grown enough to recognize the truth, what is most real. That’s where the idea of “faith” comes from as “the evidence of things unseen”. (Faith today for some has become a largely distorted idea that looks a lot more like wishful thinking or as Hope and “blind faith”)

3) How the 19 were separated out of the larger classroom

-In the late fall of 1976 Ti and Do sent 19 individuals who had joined the group during the first public meeting period from 1975 to 1976, out of the group and told those who remained, of which I was one that “you made the first cut”. This came after months living outdoors in the Veedavou rustic camping area in the Medicine Bow National forest east of Laramie, Wyoming, where overcoming began after the first round of public meetings where we had about 100 student members. While there TI and DO became aware that some were still smoking pot and having sex. They held a group meeting and laid down the law that these were unacceptable behaviors in their classroom. Some (Drrody and Stlody) who were part of those 19 found their way back into the group years later by seemingly coincidental circumstances while we were living in trailers in Amarillo, Texas.

4) In about 1977, Ti and Do held a meeting where Ti said to the group, “you all need to give us your will”.

TI told DO privately that he told us about after she left her vehicle that she thought saying that might result in “losing half the class”. As it turned out for one reason or another, that’s largely what happened.

I already thought that’s what I was doing but I’d bet to some who were on the fence of being in this group it could have been a shocker.

5) The test TI said to DO felt like she “had egg on her face” because of – the planned exit via a spacecraft that didn’t happen

Ti and Do were pressed by some students in 1975 and perhaps thereafter for when we would get picked up by the UFO (They always preferred “spacecraft”, which they always taught was equivalent to a “cloud of light” in the Records) and they at first said it could be months but then finally said, “no more than 5 years, which they later regretted saying.

(However, I have learned that even those things they regretted or felt were mistakes were made into positives for our development, in other words they weren’t “mistakes” from our perspective but part of the program to instill our own flexibility of how that Next Level are not static teachers – when the handwriting was on the wall – when they got new ideas or instructions that came as ideas many times, they didn’t hesitate to deliver them to us, even though they knew sometimes it was changing what they had said before and how that would test our resolve. One of their sayings was: “Change is the name of the game”).

But then in about 1980 Ti said we needed to prepare to be picked up and we were in Boerne, Texas, where we were still living in tents, which was on top of a cave called “Cave Without a Name.”

So we stayed up all night waiting for the spacecraft to come and it never showed up. Ti said nothing about it then but after Ti left her vehicle in 1985 DO told us TI told him at that time that she felt she had “egg on her face” because of that. But after that didn’t happen at least one student left the group. She was Jssody, who had been Alxody’s girlfriend before they joined in 1975. Others left around that time as well including Echody, Rkkody and Wndody but in each case I didn’t know why they left as in most cases then they left in the middle of the night, I suspect so they wouldn’t have to face Ti and Do. Rkkody and Wndody ended up rejoining again when they had the option. I wasn’t privy to how that happened. For me, the fact that a spacecraft didn’t come that night had no affect on me.

Just like it had no affect on me when they cancelled (or postponed the “demonstration” – being killed and resurrecting). I say postponed because they never knew whether that would still happen or not. That’s seen in the book UFO Missionaries Extraordinary by Hayden Hewes and Brad Steiger that was written about them. (Parts of this book are posted on this blog).

6) Ti and Do gave us instructions to think about what we might want in the world.

Starting during the later years when TI was still incarnate, TI and DO would periodically have us stop whatever we were doing and find someplace in the “craft” (house) where we could be by ourselves and make a point to open the door to whether or not there was something in the world we still wanted to do or someone we wanted to be with. Ti and Do said they too did this at times as an exercise they equated with descending into a pit, because they came to hate remaining in the human kingdom and compared it to being in a snake pit. The “process” instruction they’d given us from the start was to literally block out all thoughts of the past or such ideas, but during these times they wanted us to open those doors. That usually lasted for less than a half hour when they would let us know time was up and they said, then forget about that.

However no doubt some might have a hard time closing that door again, that is if they had such a door to open to anything in the world that still attracted them. I never had any thoughts during those times of wanting anything in the world. I simply thought about things like my vehicles family and playing music again but pertaining to me, I hadn’t really left that much behind to join nor had I started up much in the world to attract me back. I don’t know if anyone left because of opening those doors but it is still a big indication that Ti and Do were not wanting anyone to be with them that felt that draw (that they didn’t want to overcome), yet I also know they didn’t want any students to leave either.

7) The first of two weekend long optional visits to our human families

Early in 1985 Ti and Do scheduled all the students who had anyone in the world the opportunity to pay anyone who had “anxiety” about their whereabouts and condition a visit, saying if they were in more than one location perhaps they could travel to one spot. So most of us flew to where our parents were for the weekend and flew back. That was opening the door to any who might want to leave, making it easy for them to do so.

8) The second  optional weekend long visit to our human families

I don’t know of anyone leaving after the first visit trip but then after Ti left her vehicle DO set up the same visit schedule around 1987. I was even partnered with Srfody for the trip since we came from the same home town on Long Island and while there we met with Jwnody’s mother in Locust Grove. And Ollody who was visiting in Connecticut and Jwnody and Srfody visited with my vehicle’s parents and siblings and relatives to show them what kind of people we were with. I could have been wrong but on that trip I felt Srfody may have been interested in me again in a human way but I ignored what I felt were advances in that regard. It wasn’t the first time I experienced that with her. On several occasions in the classroom on duty in the same Lab (nutri-lab ( kitchen), fiber-lab (laundry), impro-lab (house and car maintenance), yeast-lab (bakery)) she would rub up against me a tiny bit which was a no no. Srrody also told me she had given him those same kinds of indications. In Austin, Srf was claimed to pull Alxody into a closet where they felt each other up, as reported by Alxody as a “slippage” (what we called a sin). So in a real sense sending us on a visit was a setup that was a test of whether we wanted to leave the classroom or not as that made it very easy to do.

9) Mrcody (known now as Mark, one of the two Heaven’s Gate webmasters) and Srfody (known now as Sara, the other Webmaster are instructed by Do through each of their students to leave the classroom until such time as they are ready to accept all the lesson steps

In early 1987 Mrcody and Srfody were instructed by DO and the class to leave the class because Mrcody didn’t want to abide by the “I could be wrong” lesson step. They were given a car and some money. Srfody came to Mrcody’s side while Mrcody was being offered help from classmates to get past his rebellion against that lesson step. “I could be wrong” was designed to instill the recognition that what our Older Members say is what we must rise up to recognize. Thus is was also a way of helping deflate our self confidence and instead put all our confidence in our Older Members.

It’s the same thing as when Jesus taught that his disciples needed to “deny self” and also is what is meant by saying the Lords prayer… “thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven…”. So our instruction was to state those words or words like that in front of any statement of opinion. It wasn’t just to deflate self confidence. It was to transfer that self confidence to drawing from Ti and Do’s mind to make decisions. Next Level Members are crew and service orientated, not self orientated which is also where Buddhism principals come from it seems – denouncing self but replacing self with the Information Mind from our Older Members (God) when they last gave instructions to abide by.

The lesson step started with the example of “leisure ports”. These were a type of tent we had. They were light green in color. Ti and Do said that if they said they were polka dotted then if we were of one mind with them, we’d see them as polka dotted. (I know that can seem like a mind trip, but Ti and Do never said things like that to test us, but they did give us information that was hard to buy initially for some more than others, which was the same kind of thing. One needs to surrender their judgement to their Older Member to gain the greater judgement from that Older Member. True Older Members can be trusted to not abuse their students as opposed to in the human kingdom when giving your will to someone else can be quite detrimental and hazardous. Recognizing the Older Member is a gift and anyone can have that gift if they ask for it by projecting their asking into deep outer space, beyond the stars to the Highest Source they can imagine and then observe what comes however subtle to see at first.

Not long after returning from the second visit Rthody wanted to leave and did because he was attracted by re-starting up his relationship with his vehicle’s brother and his family. Rthody ended up going publicly against Ti and Do and was living in the Nappa Sonoma valley when I visited with him in 1995.

10) In about 1987 DO says he is thinking about having himself castrated and asked some if they had a reservation with taking that act.

At about that same time in 1987 Do held a meeting where he indicated he was preparing to be castrated. He met with males and went over the procedure, not suggesting it would be for anyone else but that seemed to be an implication. A day or so later, DO then called about a dozen of us to his craft (house) and we had a meeting and he asked if any of the students in male vehicles had any reservations about having the castration procedure. Hvvody was the only one who said he did. Hvvody left the classroom some months later.

11) DO offers any classmember $2000.00 to leave

It was around 1991 or 1992 that DO said we had enough money in our possession that we can offer $2000 to any student who is staying in the class because it has become a comfortable life style when continued effort needed to be put out toward conscious overcoming of our remaining human behaviors and ways. I don’t know if anyone took him up on that offer or not but not long after that Pmmody left and then Andody left. One of Pmmody’s complaints she voiced in a documentary was that DO didn’t provide enough dental care. Rthody’s complaint was that there were too many “procedures” one being the direction one moved the razor when shaving. (That came about because someone asked DO how he shaved. TI and instructed us to make our commitment to DO and part of what went with such commitment was wanting to do everything like DO did it, though DO said that wasn’t necessary in all cases. TI and DO didn’t dream up “procedures” – they came about because of reports and problems and improvements in the craft operation, though they became tests to willfully follow or not.

A very large part of overcoming was overcoming doubts. I didn’t realize I had a bunch of doubts until I left the group and looked back on thoughts and actions I engaged that were actually deceitful – not following certain procedures and ignoring I was doing that which broke another procedure to surface breakages of procedure.

All this is a small part of the evidence that no one was held against their will in any way, shape or form and that we needed to work on our overcoming to stay in the classroom. It was designed to be a small group for that First Wave. It was too hard for most to justify staying with it year after year.

So the idea that some, who were laying down their vehicle’s lives, had doubts to the degree that they would express it in an exit tape saying they had no other choice was kind of absurd to hear but coming from someone who had dropped out or never entertained their beliefs it’s hard to imagine they didn’t have doubts.

But to the listener who is unaware of much of the story this statement by Frank seemed to give the appearance of the speaker as one of the 38 in the exit videos. Frank was not there but he was probably asked about his response to the exit video’s (as I was by the Pineapple Press team) so the writer stuck that in the podcast whether consciously or not, as if to put words in the mouth of one who was there. I hope it wasn’t staged for that affect as it would be quite deceitful to stage. If they really wanted to stay true to the facts, they could have used Franks clip but explained in a few words that it was his response to one of the exit video’s. Even though that too would be a way of potentially sacrificing the truth, as some just hear something and think it’s so, at least it would have been truthful to the facts. If it gets explained in a future episode, I guess it’s better than nothing but for those that hear it and don’t see the truth, it becomes misinformation they think is the truth.