Below is the access information for the Pineapple Street Podcast Series Heaven’s Gate and followed by Sawyers comments to each episode:
Pineapple Press Podcast Series – Heaven’s Gate
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/stitcher/heavens-gate
twitter: @heavensgateshow
facebook /heavensgateshow
Episode one: The Seekers
Sawyer’s comments:
Franks statement used in a misleading way and the background re: having doubts in the classroom and how students were constantly “tested” on whether they wanted to be in the classroom or not, as they were always free to leave:
In episode one of the Heaven’s Gate podcast, at the 8 minute mark, the host starts to go over a description of what some of the 38 students said in the exit videos they made days before laying down their human lives.
In the short intro, after students Mllody and Jwnody’s exit video clips are played, the host says, “Some may even have had doubts at the end” and they play a clip around the 8 minute mark that was Frank, not one of the 38.
(Frank is the human name he uses to date. In the Heaven’s Gate “Classroom” he was Andody. He dropped out in 1993, about a year before I did and has told me on several occasions over the years that he thought DO diverged from what TI had taught that led to leading the class into suicide because of DO’s alleged problem with his vehicle’s homosexuality, if I recall correctly. This opinion can be linked to Robert Balch’s writings and conclusion that I believe I’ve read also from Benjamin Zeller as well).
Clip of Frank:
“It just felt, that conflict of, I’m scared shitless but I’m going to do this anyway because I don’t know what else to do”.
I hadn’t heard Franks voice in over 15 years and it changed a great deal from how I remembered it, so at first I wondered who in the exit video’s said that. I wondered if I missed it somehow though I’ve listened to them all maybe three times over the last 20 years. It didn’t make any sense to me, the wording, nor that DO would have someone in the class that was filled with that much doubt about what they were about to do and at exit time.
Here’s why I say that:
Doubts in the Classroom and Events that became FILTERING TESTS of who would STAND UP for their commitment to TI and DO and their Overcoming of Humanness Process:
Here is a brief overview of the events that led up to many leaving the classroom – because of having doubts. I am calling them “tests” and a type of filter. Because they were tests, even though they weren’t often presented in that way, if someone was “on the fence” with their full commitment, they served to face them with getting off that fence, one way or the other, leave the classroom or stay on and become stronger for doing so.
Doubts were expected but learning how to recognize them and counteract them, and not give them energy, extinguishing them was part of the overcoming process that was a self administered “washing” of our brains from their humanness via TI and DO’s instructions – Their “Holy” Mind aka Spirit.
I’m starting from when the self stimulated exit was first brought up directly as there were times before that, when it surfaced indirectly that I’ll add later:
1) In August of 1994 after 9 months of giving public meetings, where we nearly doubled our numbers from the original 24 who had survived, which was the Second and Last “Wave” of public interface in 18 years, DO said in a meeting with all present, something very close to, “it seems that we will need to exit our vehicles by our own hands”.
A couple weeks before then we had a meeting where DO provided us with a poster to use in what would become our last public meeting, for me, as an overseer of one of the groups, was near Portsmouth, New Hampshire, which is when the idea of self exiting our vehicles was first introduced. Here is the poster:
Poster used in Aug. 1994 entitled: The Shedding of Our Borrowed Human Bodies May Be Required
(It’s in the Heaven’s Gate Book – Section 6 – Page 11)
After that meeting with DO we all traveled back to California and some of us resumed the IT jobs we had with Subscriber Computing, Inc. in Laguna Hills, California that we gave up during the 9 months on the road giving meetings.
-Then in September of 1994 while I was still in the group, DO held a meeting in San Clemente, where DO had rented a warehouse, where most of the class was living where he detailed the exit method of drinking a strong barbiturate mixture and asked every individual one by one around the room if they “had any reservations” about acting on this planned exit method. I recall one new student expressing reservations but learned that another did after that meeting. They both left in the next couple days. Carlan (Crlody) is witness to this.
One of those two students who left in 1994 who had reservations about the exit method had just joined that year and another who was Arrody had re-joined in 1994 having initially joined in 1975-6 and had left the class either right before or right after Ti left her vehicle. I don’t know why he left that first time but it wasn’t long after we received the option to listen to music for pleasure (Classical, Gilbert and Sullivan and Kitaro) was discontinued because Arrody was spending too much time listening and getting into it too much, when there were all sorts of ways to help the forward motion of the craft. It wasn’t meant to be a favorite pastime and most in the class were not exercising that option as far as I knew, but I had a full time day job as I think Arrody also had. I think I recall that “in-crafters” – those without jobs in the world, would listen to music as background at times during the day. So perhaps that was a test for Arrody, whether he could choose to listen in the way a member of the Next Level would, so could have been part of the reason he left or perhaps it was a coincidence.
Backing up many years, from the start Ti and Do, by following their step wise instructions from their Older Members, seemed to put things into motion that acted to test our commitment and thus filter out those didn’t rise to the requirements to stay in the classroom – those they didn’t think were ready to go the distance of totally overcoming all their humanness. They put things into motion well before they knew exactly what was to come, (as they always said they were only given instructions a step ahead of their student body because how and when new “steps” were instigated was based on the free will choices of each student), well before they considered “laying down their and/or our vehicles, (aka suicide). It was interesting to watch this for 19 years.
To follow are the primary examples of how they employed “tests”, that I am aware of. TI and DO expressed that when they received instructions sometimes they knew it would be a test for some and sometimes they warned us that it was a test as can be heard in the Blackhawk audio tapes posted on my Youtube channel: 3SPM : (Here is Blackhawk tape 1 of 3):
They didn’t conjure up tests. They received instructions they recognized would be tests for some – the instigation of certain things to think about and/or do, that many times would challenge us all, though they said none were more than we could handle – if we sought to employ their help – the ways they taught to combat the negatives that became the criteria for the test.
For instance one time we moved the entire camp of around 30 tents and after we were almost done setting up, they gave instructions to move again that same day to a very short distance away. I remember feeling exhausted and wondering why, but didn’t let that thought linger. I wasn’t conscious that I was responding negatively to what they were providing. It’s only looking back and recalling it that I remember that negative response. None the less, it was a minor negativity for me and I said nothing and I didn’t think poorly about Ti and Do or question being with them at all. It was mostly because I didn’t want to do the work of moving the tents again. So I don’t really count this as one of the tests in the list because it was small a test, yet who knows how others felt.
2) The first big test for some came when Ti and Do came to know that the “Demonstration” was cancelled or postponed.
Here is what DO wrote in “Statement I” that was mailed to people that stimulated their first meeting invitation that DO wrote while in jail for 6 months waiting for the St. Louis prosecutor to make a case against him (since charges had been dropped by the Rental Car Company), that describes the “Demonstration”:
There are two individuals here now who have also come from that next kingdom, incarnate as humans, awakened, and will soon demonstrate the same proof of overcoming death. They are “sent” from that kingdom by the “Father” to bear the same truth that was Jesus’. This is like a repeat performance, except this time by two (a man and a woman) to restate the truth Jesus bore, restore its accurate meaning, and again show that any individual who seeks that kingdom will find it through the same process. This “re-statement” or demonstration will happen within months. The two who are the “actors” in this “theatre” are in the meantime doing all they can to relate this truth as accurately as possible so that when their bodies recover from their “dead” state (resurrection) and they leave (UFO’s) those left behind will have clearly understood the formula.
Those who can believe this process and do it will be “lifted up” individually and “saved” from death – literally. If you seek those two while they are here they will gladly fill you in on the details and assist those who wish to follow in this “path.”
It is interesting that even though the demonstration of death overcome was not physically visible, I later realized when I first started to analyze this history with regard to the Revelation chapter 11 prophecy of the Two Witnesses that they were first to be “subdued”, stated as “overcome” in most translations with a time period in between when they would then “separate by dying themselves” the best translation of the Greek phrase “apokteino auto” most translated in various Bibles as “kill them”, but where “auto” also means “themselves” and apokteino is as a compound word where “apo” as a prefix means “separate” or “exit” or “take away from” (their Soul taken away from their vehicle).
Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies (shall lie) in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
Some people translate apokteino as “kill (or even just) “destroy” or “ruin”, “in any way”, not just by dying. Ti and Do did feel “ruined” as DO stated in the booklet he wrote entitled, “’88 Update – The UFO Two and their Crew”:
Also the words “dead bodies” did not appear in the manuscripts. The Greek word, “ptoma” from the alternate of “pipto” = “a ruin” but from “peto, kin to petomai provides the “idea of alighting; to fall (literally or figuratively); fall down or light on. There are only two other usages of “ptoma” besides the three usages here in Rev 11. One of those two translates it to “carcase” but can just as easily be ruin:
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles ((from Greek aer (an eagle from it’s wind like flight))) be gathered together.
Here is the same information in Lukes gospel that has a different Greek word “soma” used to translate into “body”:
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body ((soma=body)), thither will the eagles ((from Greek aer (an eagle from it’s wind like flight))) be gathered together.
So this “dead body” translation would be more accurately “ruined body” or just ruin which is what happened to Ti and Do when the national news came out and told the world by Walter Cronkite that these Two were charlatans and were felons from Texas so couldn’t possibly be from outer space taking people to heaven on a spacecraft. When Ti and Do saw that news they both thought their “mission was dead”. They were in Las Vegas at the time and after 3 days felt they received instructions from their Older Member (from a spacecraft) to tell the students they felt this was the shooting down in the streets and then continue on with meetings, which they did and then on April 21st Ti called a halt to meetings and neither held another public meeting to complete their 1260 days of prophecy speaking.
Then after the period of time said as 3 1/2 days, where “days” is equally translated as a time period, also said in Rev 12 as a “time, times and a half a time” which I can say a lot about, that amounts to two such periods that were designed to be flexible as the Next Level doesn’t know exactly what humans will choose to do when they hear the information for their in the flesh (incarnate) Representatives, they “exit by dying themselves” – apokteino auto.
So continuing on with what DO wrote about that time:
One of the hardest things that Ti and Do had to do concerned the “demonstration” (referred to in Statement I). The students had been told that while they were out holding meetings they would hear of the demonstration, and that would be the signal to stop holding meetings and come running. It was rumored for a while that the demonstration was going to happen in San Francisco. Ti and Do were in Las Vegas when the TV network news programs all broke the story about the two. Now because of the kind of publicity that had come out across the country, climaxed by the networks, Ti and Do felt that further meetings were pretty hopeless and people had already made up their minds about how ridiculous this all was. Ti and Do felt that the demonstration was still the one thing that could change that. However, they grieved literally for days, feeling like they had been shot down by the media and the mission was dead.
They received instruction to not walk into a physical demonstration but rather to know that the “killing in the street” of the two witnesses had occurred at the hands of the media. However, they felt like this was a cop-out or a “chickening out” interpretation of the one act that was the basis of their whole following. So, with much embarrassment, they called their students together, convinced that without a physical demonstration, their students would have every right to call them charlatans. Much to their surprise, the students, almost without exception, accepted the interpretation and said, “OK then, where do we go from here”?
Ti and Do still felt that to continue was probably one of their greatest tests. Nevertheless, they got up, kicked the dust off their tired feet, and continued with the instruction to hold meetings a while longer. They then became more organized in their groups and more systematic with their communication between cities. All in all, the meetings continued for a little over ten months.
So the literal physical ascension of their bodies into a spacecraft was laid out in such a way in prophecy that it could have happened exactly as described or could have equally pertained to the physical “soul body” that they always said was growing inside of our human bodies – comparing it to a caterpillar growing a new body inside it’s cocoon/chrysalis condition that would then fly away, but in that case might not be visible to the human eye, thus another “test” of whether or not we can see it because of wanting to understand it and thus being given that understanding by the Next Level – “eyes to see, ears to hear”. They spoke about that growing physical body at that point in 1975 and thereafter as “body changes”.
Thus this was the first big test as DO wrote and I guess at least one He knew of dropped out at that point, indicated by his saying “almost without exception”:
Much to their surprise, the students, almost without exception, accepted the interpretation and said, “OK then, where do we go from here”?
re: what Ti and Do always described as “body changes” is shown possible by Jesus’ example of healing and demonstrating his new body that came from the old one. Christians refer to Jesus body after he healed his body from it’s dead state as having a “glorified body.” Jesus went on to demonstrate his new body’s capabilities – appearing and disappearing, and defying gravity as shown in his calming of the waves on the sea and when he exited by physically ascending to be received by a “cloud” (Covering). Jesus said that he was not a spirit:
Luk 24:34 Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
Luk 24:35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
Luk 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luk 24:37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Luk 24:40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Luk 24:41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
Luk 24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
Luk 24:43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
TI and DO told us that they felt Jesus completed his “change over” at the time described in the records as the Transfiguration:
Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
Mar 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
Mar 9:3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
Mar 9:4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
Luke adds a key piece not found in either Matthew or Mark’s account, showing that these two “men” as Luke referred to Elias and Moses were delivering a message at least one of them understood. In other words this was when Jesus was given instructions to “lay his body down” of his own volition which could be equated with a type of suicide as he knew well the Jewish leadership hated him and had tried a number of times to stone him and were shown later to have conspired for a way to capture him and have the Romans kill him. While addressing this, here is where Jesus directly says he was going to die on his Father’s instruction and that the humans were not taking his life from him. He was laying it down as the show of the greatest love one could show another, in this case his students, the sheep given to him by his Father to shepherd?
Joh 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Joh 10:15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Continuing on with when he received that instruction while on the Transfiguration mount:
Luk 9:31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
Mar 9:5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Mar 9:6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
Mar 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
Mar 9:8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
Mar 9:9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
Mar 9:10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
Mar 9:11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?
Mar 9:12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
Mar 9:13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.
Ti and Do never dropped the prospect that they could do the Demonstration in the way they first thought might happen and DO never dropped the idea that they could board the spacecraft with their human vehicles, which is part of why I think they took out Abduction Insurance and packed travel bags they kept alongside when they laid down their vehicles to die.
I don’t doubt that TI could have healed them all or for some if their human vehicles had changed over enough could have healed themselves from the ingestion of the strong barbiturate, which shows some potential in:
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Yet TI and DO taught that such “miracles” are not given to those that still have a chance to graduate into Next Level membership with their current human vehicle as a big part of overcoming was not having that kind of proof because then the Mind/Spirit has not grown enough to recognize the truth, what is most real. That’s where the idea of “faith” comes from as “the evidence of things unseen”. (Faith today for some has become a largely distorted idea that looks a lot more like wishful thinking or as Hope and “blind faith”)
3) How the 19 were separated out of the larger classroom
-In the late fall of 1976 Ti and Do sent 19 individuals who had joined the group during the first public meeting period from 1975 to 1976, out of the group and told those who remained, of which I was one that “you made the first cut”. This came after months living outdoors in the Veedavou rustic camping area in the Medicine Bow National forest east of Laramie, Wyoming, where overcoming began after the first round of public meetings where we had about 100 student members. While there TI and DO became aware that some were still smoking pot and having sex. They held a group meeting and laid down the law that these were unacceptable behaviors in their classroom. Some (Drrody and Stlody) who were part of those 19 found their way back into the group years later by seemingly coincidental circumstances while we were living in trailers in Amarillo, Texas.
4) In about 1977, Ti and Do held a meeting where Ti said to the group, “you all need to give us your will”.
TI told DO privately that he told us about after she left her vehicle that she thought saying that might result in “losing half the class”. As it turned out for one reason or another, that’s largely what happened.
I already thought that’s what I was doing but I’d bet to some who were on the fence of being in this group it could have been a shocker.
5) The test TI said to DO felt like she “had egg on her face” because of – the planned exit via a spacecraft that didn’t happen
Ti and Do were pressed by some students in 1975 and perhaps thereafter for when we would get picked up by the UFO (They always preferred “spacecraft”, which they always taught was equivalent to a “cloud of light” in the Records) and they at first said it could be months but then finally said, “no more than 5 years, which they later regretted saying.
(However, I have learned that even those things they regretted or felt were mistakes were made into positives for our development, in other words they weren’t “mistakes” from our perspective but part of the program to instill our own flexibility of how that Next Level are not static teachers – when the handwriting was on the wall – when they got new ideas or instructions that came as ideas many times, they didn’t hesitate to deliver them to us, even though they knew sometimes it was changing what they had said before and how that would test our resolve. One of their sayings was: “Change is the name of the game”).
But then in about 1980 Ti said we needed to prepare to be picked up and we were in Boerne, Texas, where we were still living in tents, which was on top of a cave called “Cave Without a Name.”
So we stayed up all night waiting for the spacecraft to come and it never showed up. Ti said nothing about it then but after Ti left her vehicle in 1985 DO told us TI told him at that time that she felt she had “egg on her face” because of that. But after that didn’t happen at least one student left the group. She was Jssody, who had been Alxody’s girlfriend before they joined in 1975. Others left around that time as well including Echody, Rkkody and Wndody but in each case I didn’t know why they left as in most cases then they left in the middle of the night, I suspect so they wouldn’t have to face Ti and Do. Rkkody and Wndody ended up rejoining again when they had the option. I wasn’t privy to how that happened. For me, the fact that a spacecraft didn’t come that night had no affect on me.
Just like it had no affect on me when they cancelled (or postponed the “demonstration” – being killed and resurrecting). I say postponed because they never knew whether that would still happen or not. That’s seen in the book UFO Missionaries Extraordinary by Hayden Hewes and Brad Steiger that was written about them. (Parts of this book are posted on this blog).
6) Ti and Do gave us instructions to think about what we might want in the world.
Starting during the later years when TI was still incarnate, TI and DO would periodically have us stop whatever we were doing and find someplace in the “craft” (house) where we could be by ourselves and make a point to open the door to whether or not there was something in the world we still wanted to do or someone we wanted to be with. Ti and Do said they too did this at times as an exercise they equated with descending into a pit, because they came to hate remaining in the human kingdom and compared it to being in a snake pit. The “process” instruction they’d given us from the start was to literally block out all thoughts of the past or such ideas, but during these times they wanted us to open those doors. That usually lasted for less than a half hour when they would let us know time was up and they said, then forget about that.
However no doubt some might have a hard time closing that door again, that is if they had such a door to open to anything in the world that still attracted them. I never had any thoughts during those times of wanting anything in the world. I simply thought about things like my vehicles family and playing music again but pertaining to me, I hadn’t really left that much behind to join nor had I started up much in the world to attract me back. I don’t know if anyone left because of opening those doors but it is still a big indication that Ti and Do were not wanting anyone to be with them that felt that draw (that they didn’t want to overcome), yet I also know they didn’t want any students to leave either.
7) The first of two weekend long optional visits to our human families
Early in 1985 Ti and Do scheduled all the students who had anyone in the world the opportunity to pay anyone who had “anxiety” about their whereabouts and condition a visit, saying if they were in more than one location perhaps they could travel to one spot. So most of us flew to where our parents were for the weekend and flew back. That was opening the door to any who might want to leave, making it easy for them to do so.
8) The second optional weekend long visit to our human families
I don’t know of anyone leaving after the first visit trip but then after Ti left her vehicle DO set up the same visit schedule around 1987. I was even partnered with Srfody for the trip since we came from the same home town on Long Island and while there we met with Jwnody’s mother in Locust Grove. And Ollody who was visiting in Connecticut and Jwnody and Srfody visited with my vehicle’s parents and siblings and relatives to show them what kind of people we were with. I could have been wrong but on that trip I felt Srfody may have been interested in me again in a human way but I ignored what I felt were advances in that regard. It wasn’t the first time I experienced that with her. On several occasions in the classroom on duty in the same Lab (nutri-lab ( kitchen), fiber-lab (laundry), impro-lab (house and car maintenance), yeast-lab (bakery)) she would rub up against me a tiny bit which was a no no. Srrody also told me she had given him those same kinds of indications. In Austin, Srf was claimed to pull Alxody into a closet where they felt each other up, as reported by Alxody as a “slippage” (what we called a sin). So in a real sense sending us on a visit was a setup that was a test of whether we wanted to leave the classroom or not as that made it very easy to do.
9) Mrcody (known now as Mark, one of the two Heaven’s Gate webmasters) and Srfody (known now as Sara, the other Webmaster are instructed by Do through each of their students to leave the classroom until such time as they are ready to accept all the lesson steps
In early 1987 Mrcody and Srfody were instructed by DO and the class to leave the class because Mrcody didn’t want to abide by the “I could be wrong” lesson step. They were given a car and some money. Srfody came to Mrcody’s side while Mrcody was being offered help from classmates to get past his rebellion against that lesson step. “I could be wrong” was designed to instill the recognition that what our Older Members say is what we must rise up to recognize. Thus is was also a way of helping deflate our self confidence and instead put all our confidence in our Older Members.
It’s the same thing as when Jesus taught that his disciples needed to “deny self” and also is what is meant by saying the Lords prayer… “thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven…”. So our instruction was to state those words or words like that in front of any statement of opinion. It wasn’t just to deflate self confidence. It was to transfer that self confidence to drawing from Ti and Do’s mind to make decisions. Next Level Members are crew and service orientated, not self orientated which is also where Buddhism principals come from it seems – denouncing self but replacing self with the Information Mind from our Older Members (God) when they last gave instructions to abide by.
The lesson step started with the example of “leisure ports”. These were a type of tent we had. They were light green in color. Ti and Do said that if they said they were polka dotted then if we were of one mind with them, we’d see them as polka dotted. (I know that can seem like a mind trip, but Ti and Do never said things like that to test us, but they did give us information that was hard to buy initially for some more than others, which was the same kind of thing. One needs to surrender their judgement to their Older Member to gain the greater judgement from that Older Member. True Older Members can be trusted to not abuse their students as opposed to in the human kingdom when giving your will to someone else can be quite detrimental and hazardous. Recognizing the Older Member is a gift and anyone can have that gift if they ask for it by projecting their asking into deep outer space, beyond the stars to the Highest Source they can imagine and then observe what comes however subtle to see at first.
Not long after returning from the second visit Rthody wanted to leave and did because he was attracted by re-starting up his relationship with his vehicle’s brother and his family. Rthody ended up going publicly against Ti and Do and was living in the Nappa Sonoma valley when I visited with him in 1995.
10) In about 1987 DO says he is thinking about having himself castrated and asked some if they had a reservation with taking that act.
At about that same time in 1987 Do held a meeting where he indicated he was preparing to be castrated. He met with males and went over the procedure, not suggesting it would be for anyone else but that seemed to be an implication. A day or so later, DO then called about a dozen of us to his craft (house) and we had a meeting and he asked if any of the students in male vehicles had any reservations about having the castration procedure. Hvvody was the only one who said he did. Hvvody left the classroom some months later.
11) DO offers any classmember $2000.00 to leave
It was around 1991 or 1992 that DO said we had enough money in our possession that we can offer $2000 to any student who is staying in the class because it has become a comfortable life style when continued effort needed to be put out toward conscious overcoming of our remaining human behaviors and ways. I don’t know if anyone took him up on that offer or not but not long after that Pmmody left and then Andody left. One of Pmmody’s complaints she voiced in a documentary was that DO didn’t provide enough dental care. Rthody’s complaint was that there were too many “procedures” one being the direction one moved the razor when shaving. (That came about because someone asked DO how he shaved. TI and instructed us to make our commitment to DO and part of what went with such commitment was wanting to do everything like DO did it, though DO said that wasn’t necessary in all cases. TI and DO didn’t dream up “procedures” – they came about because of reports and problems and improvements in the craft operation, though they became tests to willfully follow or not.
A very large part of overcoming was overcoming doubts. I didn’t realize I had a bunch of doubts until I left the group and looked back on thoughts and actions I engaged that were actually deceitful – not following certain procedures and ignoring I was doing that which broke another procedure to surface breakages of procedure.
All this is a small part of the evidence that no one was held against their will in any way, shape or form and that we needed to work on our overcoming to stay in the classroom. It was designed to be a small group for that First Wave. It was too hard for most to justify staying with it year after year.
So the idea that some, who were laying down their vehicle’s lives, had doubts to the degree that they would express it in an exit tape saying they had no other choice was kind of absurd to hear but coming from someone who had dropped out or never entertained their beliefs it’s hard to imagine they didn’t have doubts.
But to the listener who is unaware of much of the story this statement by Frank seemed to give the appearance of the speaker as one of the 38 in the exit videos. Frank was not there but he was probably asked about his response to the exit video’s (as I was by the Pineapple Press team) so the writer stuck that in the podcast whether consciously or not, as if to put words in the mouth of one who was there. I hope it wasn’t staged for that affect as it would be quite deceitful to stage. If they really wanted to stay true to the facts, they could have used Franks clip but explained in a few words that it was his response to one of the exit video’s. Even though that too would be a way of potentially sacrificing the truth, as some just hear something and think it’s so, at least it would have been truthful to the facts. If it gets explained in a future episode, I guess it’s better than nothing but for those that hear it and don’t see the truth, it becomes misinformation they think is the truth.