Sawyer’s critique of Mark’s Interview – Heaven’s Gate II: The Graduation by Bardo Methodology

Sawyer’s critique of Mark’s Interview – Heaven’s Gate II: The Graduation – 12-29-2022

The text of the Interview of Mark (Mrcody in TI and DO’s Group) by Niklas Göransson is included point by point with my critique. Here is the article link:

Heaven’s Gate II: The Graduation

A. Sawyer’s Introduction

I know some of what I will be responding to might be seen as nit picky and some of what I will be saying is giving my understanding and doesn’t necessarily negate what Mark (Mrcody) is saying. At the same time, it seems to me some of the more important perspectives and even events and instructions are being left out. I understand that at times each Student could have a different viewpoint or recollection, so at times I could be wrong, but I am trying to stick to what I experienced as best I can so that the reader can stand the best chance possible to garner what is most likely the most true or that there were multiple viewpoints that could even all be correct in some way. It’s not my intention to treat everything Mark says with suspicion. I don’t really care to be fault finding. That’s actually not one of the areas I’ve been told by TI and DO I needed to work on. And though I have said that certain things both Mark and Sarah (Srfody) have said over the years were untrue and even seemed like lies, I don’t know if they are lies or that they have repeated certain points of view and perspectives for so long that they believe they are being truthful or truthful enough.

DO talked about there existing “sins (missing the mark) of omission and sins of commission”. DO did not often refer to the records humans call scriptures but this quote does come from those Records. In this context Sins of Omission are when someone omits saying something that would provide a far more honest account that shows what really was said or done so needs to be said, while Sins of Commission in this context are when they say something against the Next Level Above Human. I believe this interview contains many examples of both sins of omission and commission against DO and against the Next Level Above Human and least of which against me and indirectly against Cathy and Carlan in Mark and Sarah’s lawsuit against us for freely sharing TI and DO’s fantastic information with the world. We know this is happening because the Lower Forces influlence people to keep the in depth understanding of what TI and DO and Crew were all about away from people and also to put a bad light on the entire story of TI and DO as after all if the ones running the Heaven’s Gate website for many years, given that task to among others to Mark and Sarah to keep fulfilling then many people think Mark and Sarah’s choices might be best reflecting of what TI and DO were all about. This seems to be the same Lower Forces stragegy used after Jesus left by trying to divert Jesus’ thunder to make a religion approved by the state out of it and then to become the religion called Christianity that gives Jesus a bad name because of their deceitful and manipulative and judgemental, dictatorial, condescending, murderous behaviors and ways.

What I have experienced in critiquing several of the email interviews Mark and/or Sarah have given over the years is that they often Omit what I feel are very important details. That seems to be the case here as well as it seems they downright add things, even directly talking about DO even saying things to Mark and Sarah that I don’t believe DO said that we can even show evidence that DO probably didn’t say. Sure they might have interpreted things DO said or twisted what he said to be something they could live with. But we have audio tapes of DO explaining things regarding Mark and Sarah’s being sent out of the Classroom that contradict what Mark says here in this interview. We also have Rkkody’s manuscript of the events that transpired after he and Mark and Sarah and Oscar (Oscody) received FedX packets from DO and Crew on March 25, 1997 that contradict big time Mark and Sarah’s version of that time. They don’t necessarily lie but they just omit talking about what happened in any detail or just get one thing wrong like the date which they can then say, Oh we just forgot about the date. They could have many excuses for what Mark says here that can be shown to be out right wrong or inaccurate.

The way the author of this article formatted his article was mostly starting the presumed email interview response from Mrcody (Mark) with a dash. I include the subject spoke about by the author as context. In my response I will refer to Mrcody as Mark and Srfody as Sarah, the first names they have used for years to date.

B. Start of Article by it’s author Niklas Göransson with Mark’s (Mrcody) answer followed by Sawyer’s (Swyody) replies:

Niklas:

The first part of this interview series chronicled Mrcody’s first twelve years in what we know today as Heaven’s Gate. We left off in the fall of 1987 as he went home to Phoenix, Arizona, to see his parents. At that point, Mrcody had not been back there since September 1975 when he made a quick visit to get his affairs in order before bidding his family goodbye. Along with him was his check-partner, Srfody.

1. Mark: (Mrcody):

– When returning to the families, we’d usually bring a Classmate we could bounce ideas off. They would help to clarify the situation if things got confusing. My family had grown used to me being away and thought of us as somewhat of a curiosity. We found ourselves distant from their views and way of life. We sat down, spoke with them, and tried to relay our story as clearly and positively as possible. We were kind and pleasant, as were they. Hoping to figure out what had happened to us, they asked careful questions. At times, it was like being examined – as if our views were unusual and it wasn’t really an issue whether we stayed or left. We felt the same way.

1. Sawyer (Swyody):

I was puzzled by this account of the event of Mark visiting his parents in 1987 as it indicates he was with Sarah. That would mean Sarah went on at least two trips to visit families as she went with me to visit my family at the same time period which in part I believe was because Sarah’s dad lived in the same town where my parents lived as Sarah and I were partners in the world before we both joined with TI and DO from the Waldport, OR meeting on September 14, 1975. I was on the airplane with her when I visited my family and briefly went to her house in Plainview, NY (but I was not really welcomed there so left before seeing anyone).

This 1987 visit was the second such visit we ever did as a Group. The first visit was around late September or early October of 1983 when TI was still in her vehicle. Like I said on the first visit if there were exceptions where more than one classmember went together to visit one’s family member, I didn’t know about it and I doubt that happened. On that 1983 visit I went alone to NY and others also went alone. I welcomed back to the Class a number of other students who came back alone because they went alone. This is important to me to make note of as with the many critics of TI and DO, I can hear some saying something to the effect of, “this is what cults do…they send someone else to keep tabs on the other, to keep them from saying something the leaders didn’t want them to say,” etc. So that blows that criticism out of the water that on the first visit most if not all went alone.

On the second visit in 1987, thus after TI left her vehicle in June of 1985, I recall DO saying he was sending other students to visit with our families so our parents and siblings, etc. could see the kind of people we were living with in the Class. Thus at my second visit in 1987 Ollody and Jwnody (and Srfody (Sarah)) visited with my parents and siblings and others at my parents house. I also went to visit with Jwnody’s mother and I believe Ollody and perhaps Sarah was there as well. It was a brief meeting with Jwnody’s mother. I didn’t actually talk with her nor any other members of her family. They wanted to be alone.

On that second visit I wasn’t with another classmate hardly at all. I was mostly alone. During the day I arrived I was alone with my parents and siblings talking. No other students were with me until Ollody and Jwnody and Srfody came to my parents house and stayed for maybe an hour. After that I was alone with them until my dad took me to Kennedy International Airport to return to Colorado.

Mark makes it sound like this was some kind of regular occurrence Perhaps he’s prone to exaggerating certain facts to appeal to those who accused us of neglecting family. I don’t know why he’d use the word, “usually” re: such visits as there was nothing “usual” about them. It certainly wasn’t “usual” to bring a Classmate either as we only had two visits in 19 years I was with Them and I thought only the second one included bringing another classmate.

I don’t know why Mark says the other classmate went with him or others to “bounce ideas off of” as on my two visits if I had wanted to bounce ideas off of someone I could just call the Group collect. In fact while on my visit I did call the group. On my visits there wasn’t much to coordinate. On the second visit when Sarah and I traveled by air together, I don’t recall we came back together. I didn’t need anyone to bounce ideas off of. Maybe for his visit he needed that help but I had no ideas to do anything else but what I did and for me it was easy to answer their questions.

I recall the primary instructions with both visits was that our effort was to try to “relieve any anxiety” of these family members by showing them some of what we were doing and that we were free to leave and were happy. (We had no prep to put up a false happiness front. If we weren’t happy TI and DO would have had us leave the Group well before that). I was genuinely happy in the Group so I didn’t have to try to put up some front of happiness. TI and DO did spend several hours meeting with us going over our questions.

Since I am speaking of the visits and in particular the first visit in 1983 here are some notes from audio tape 63 where TI and DO present the visit task potential and help students know how to handle certain questions, not to give them a script but to handle the task as a Member of the Next Level would in that circumstance that even involves a certain amount of strategy. After all, TI and DO knew loved ones were not going to really comprehend what their loved one’s had chosen and why as we were embarking on something that for many seems crazy. So some might still have great bitterness at their loved one’s choices and may even blame us for others in the families failing health as if those things would not have happened had we stayed close to that family unit. Yet TI and Do also didn’t feel to let someone talk to us in a derogatory manner but try to express understanding while knowing they had a right to their choices in life, in this case to be apart from what others might consider to be a normal family life. Many won’t believe much of what we believe. DO felt like Nancy Brown really grew from her suffering They didn’t say that lightly. They said they suffered because of the suffering of those family members but that it was needed for a student to detach from their human family and put the kind of effort needed for an extended time of bonding with the Family unit of their Older Members whom they recognized.

Ti and Do were concerned for our security so that anyone that did want to interfere with our choice to stay in the group couldn’t easily find us. They also knew because of the Network of parents that understandably were wanting to know about their loved ones, that we wanted to give them hope of further connection with us while not expecting a close relationship because of the major task each student needed to focus on to qualify to graduate into Next Level Membership. TI and DO even spoke about how anyone could do whatever they wanted to do in the Class but then laughed that if that’s what they wanted to do they wouldn’t find themselves staying in the Classroom but it was all about choices. They even said if a student found they wanted to stay with their family to just please send them a card or call to tell them about that choice.

Hearing Mark describing his visit, I wondered why would DO have Mark go to visit his family with Sarah. Well, it was possible Mark and Sarah were assigned partners at that time. DO, being in TI’s service, though TI was outside her vehicle, had an uncanny connection with TI to where he was just following instructions to choose to form certain partnerships with other students. I don’t think it was an accident that Sarah went with me and come to think of it, as it turned out Sarah being sent with Mark, as if there was an element of the same kind of test. In other words TI would have known that Mark and Sarah were forming their own relationship with one another. As soon as they got back from the visit Mark was showing his lack of abiding by the “I could be wrong” program and as Carlan (Crlody) told me he learned in the group (evidenced by DO in audio tapes) that they didn’t want to change their partnership when it came up and that was in part why they left together. Partnerships changed all the time. There were some times I didn’t want to change partnerships as some partners were too stressful to be with and with some partners there was chemistry that needed to be overcome thus would put one to the test to have certain partners. It would seem that Mark and Sarah were one such partnership and DO had instructions to put them together as a partnership to test what they each wanted, a relationship with one another or a relationship with him only.

Even though I knew nothing then of the relationship Mark and Sarah were forming, that even they might not have fully realized, it showed itself when they left the class together though nothing was ever said that I heard about why Sarah was leaving with Mark until Crlody expressed what he did to me.

So it seems Mark is either forgetting what he was developing with Sarah while still in the Class or has blocked what was happening or is directly lying to try to quell the truth to save certain embarrassments because I have been talking about them for years and telling my perspective as a witness to how and why and when they were sent out of the Class. Mark has denied everything I said about it. Could I misremember every aspect? I don’t think so as that was a major event and we have DO in audio tapes talking about how Mark and Sarah had been in relationship to one another and no longer looking to him so that’s the proof that my remembrance and Carlan (Crlody’s) remembrance are far more accurate than what Mark is saying here and that they have said to Gizmodo and other media groups about their departure. Mark’s way seems to be to just leave out most of the truth.

But Speaking of lying, the problem with doing so is forgetting what the lies they told were. Here is an example of their changing their story:

Mark and Sarah were reported to have said in one of the first email interviews they gave to the author in a piece for Gizmodo. They were asked why they left the group and they responded:

“We left the Group in September, 1987 because we were going to take care of some other things in our lives… Free will and choice are the cornerstone of what anyone does, especially in the Next Level. Individuals in the Group could come and go as those chose to do, and many did just that over the years. We had an open door policy, and it swung both ways. People came and went all the time.”

So Mark says they left to take care of some things in their lives. But I thought Mark said in this interview in point number 4; “I don’t know why Srfody was sent along with me, but she was expected back soon..”. Plus note Mark said “…we left to take care of things…” but he said, “Srfody was sent along with me…”. SENT is the keyword here. The third part to this one sentence is “…sent to take care of some things…”. Doesn’t that indicate foreknowledge of things to take care of before they left, things to take care of together? It makes it sound like they had a plan to leave?

Then Mark and Sarah said, “…Individuals in the Group could come and go as those chose to do, and many did just that over the years. We had an open door policy, and it swung both ways. People came and went all the time.”

I get it, they seem to want to tell the public they were not a cult that holds people against their will which is true totally. But then they go to far with that as no one who expected to stay in the group could come a go as they chose to. If someone walked out the door and went to the store and came back, they would have been challenged with either never doing that again or with leaving the group and being helped to leave. And then they might never have the opportunity to come back as for one after someone left, as a matter of security of not being found by investigators we learned were looking for us, we would literally move to a new location sometimes in the same city but even same state. There were people sent out of the Class in 1976 that TI and DO lost touch with unintentionally years later who never sought very hard to find the group while a few did look for us and found us and rejoined when they did and DO found out about them. That was the case with Drrody and Stlody and some others. So it’s another totally false statement to say, “People came and went all the time” and unless Mark and Sarah had both become very senile some time before this Gizmodo article was written in september 2014 they seem to be directly lying.

Moving on, I think the same thing about Sarah being sent with me to visit families – it was a test of whether each of us wanted to be with one another or not. DO also talked about Sarah having entertained an influence she didn’t know about that was trying to use her to get me to not join the Class and/or to get me out of the Class. On my visit with her accompanying me on the airplane at one point sitting next to her on the plane it felt very strange as if she was intentionally rubbing her leg on mine. Also on that visit we for some reason found ourselves at a Baskin and Robbins in what was once upon a time both our home town and it stirred a memory I had of being with her there when we first got together in that town in about 1970. I fluffed it off as I also did with her sitting so close on the plane.

This was not new to me as one time in the 1980’s Sarah and I were partners in the Juice Lab and during our being on duty we had to work together to measure ingredients into these Pink Drinks we were consuming. Sarah was standing right up against me at one point. I was a bit shocked by it but was afraid of saying something or of pulling away abruptly to send her a message. I just ignored it thinking she didn’t mean to do it. It was some years later that Srrody told me Sarah had done the same thing to him. I didn’t know where to put that in my head so just ignored it. But well before that it was Sarah who had gone into a closet with Alxody and were “feeling one another up” in there. That got reported to the entire Class. I’m not sure who first reported it but I think it was Alxody who couldn’t stand to keep it hidden. These things, when I began to think of them reminded me of when Sarah and I joined the Class in 1975. We left Waldport/Newport together with Ron and Judy to meet up with the Class in Fruita, at the Colorado National Monument. We first drove to eastern Oregon and on that first night sleeping together in our zip together sleeping bag that we’d used for years as a couple to sleep in I was surprise that she seemed to be coming on to me, something she hadn’t done for years as I was almost always the instigator of relations. This was after we had both decided to join and knew we were taking a vow of celibacy. So in audio tape 847 where DO talked about my leaving I was blinded to how Influences wanted me to go to Phoenix area to stay with Mark and Sarah who were in that area since being sent out of the Class together.

When I got to their house the first and only thing I remember Sarah saying to me for the couple weeks I was there was “none of that sex stuff”. I had no conscious desire to have sex with her. All the years of the Classroom, I no longer had any attraction to her but I guess from what DO said, there was some kind of Influence with me that wanted to go to where she was. That influence even seemed to blind me to that desire. At that time I was so confused with why I was giving into sensuality with myself that I’m not surprised I don’t recall much.

In November of 2021, when I visited with Mark and Sarah at their lawyers office, which was the result of Cathy’s efforts to arrange, to try to resolve the conflict we’d had for years of their allowing me/us to do the dissemination task in whatever way I/We felt to do it, I had zero interest in seeing her or relating to her in any way. In fact I was repulsed by both she and Mark because of how they were going against TI and DO’s wishes with the Audio Tapes and other of their property that they were supposed to only be the dividers of, not the exclusive caretakers, managers and disseminators of, while not ever really disseminating any of the audios or the other materials beyond the minimum of keeping up the website. I never minded what they didn’t do but I really minded their trying to keep myself and Crlody and Rkkody and now Cathy from doing our own dissemination task that includes having access to all the audio tapes especially.

I hesitated saying all this publicly but Mark in this interview is so full of partial truths and seemingly outright lies and deceit and manipulation of other’s view of history that I have to tell it like it is from my experience and perspective.

Niklas:

After the trip, Mrcody and Srfody resumed their service in one of the Class’ lodgings – a house, or ‘craft’, in the suburbs of Boulder. A few weeks later, both of them were out of the Group.

2. Mark:

– There has been a lot of misinformation and ink given to this topic, so we might as well put it on record and let people know what happened. Something had come up about me being assigned a new Out of Craft (OOC) task right around the same time we were deliberating whether to leave the area. This occurred only a few weeks before the move to Atlanta. We had just purchased a rear-drive Cadillac, and I realized that – in a mountainous, snowy area – it might not be able to handle the job it would be required to do. I mentioned this issue to some individuals, and it made its way back to Do that I was bringing up ‘problems’ where it wasn’t needed.

2. Sawyer:

Mark says he wants to “put it on record” what happened to clear up the misinformation and the way he goes about it is to be about as vague as one could get as to what exactly happened. Talking about his getting an OOC Task. Who was talking about it, Classmates? DO? And what was wrong with talking about it? What happened to his applying TI and DO’s teachings to be thorough and detailed in communications? What about that was an issue in their leaving the group? What it seems to be is one of the “straws that broke the camel’s back” in his using and trusting his own mind. It’s fine in the world to trust one’s own mind but being with our Older Members, at that time, Students needed to apply seeking to only trust the Minds of TI and DO or don’t stay in Their program/classroom, which is what happened.

Then the subject of the Cadillac… What about that was an issue in their leaving the group? And how was DO involved in any of this? Again it sounds like his issues here were between him and fellow students. DO was not such a leader/teacher that he believed what any student told him about any kind of conflict or disagreement. He and TI talked about that in meetings that are on tapes and I believe I witnessed that when I was assigned to be in SAT 3, which was when Mark and Sarah were still in the Class, though I was then mostly an observer. SAT 3 stood for Satellite 3 and referred to a task assignment for a group of Students who TI and DO worked on organizational needs of the group.

To me these two points without any details are, whether conscious or not, like a smoke screen to appear to be addressing the subject but then only giving it tiny lip service. If anything, to me it does the opposite of what he says he intends to do – to “set the record straight”.

Mark writes:

“the automobile issue raised the notion that it was part of the whole ‘I could be wrong’ Mrcody problem. Certain people brought up instances of how I, over time, had made statements which seemed to confirm this attitude.”

Yes, fellow classmates were bringing things up where Mark had made statements which seemed to confirm the attitude that Mark didn’t think he could be wrong about. This even stems from 1982 or so when TI and DO saw that he needed to be “muted” for becoming a “wagon master” and/or “trail boss” when there were no trail bosses in the Next Level so Students needed to learn to operate as crew members that don’t have one person calling the shots.

So regarding the Cadillac. I don’t know what happened with this. However I do know something about how things worked in the group. For instance if Mark was on the crew that was looking for a car to buy or assessing a car DO was considering buying then no one would have anything to say about Mark talking about it or the way he was talking about it was with confidence in his own assessment thus not like a member of the Next Level would think or talk.

However, I’d guess he wasn’t on the car buying crew. He’s not providing enough details of what the problem was. Perhaps he felt to say something because as a member of SAT 3, (a crew who were all responsible to bring to Links attention things that might be a breach of security or in this case safety in driving a rear wheel vehicle in a snowy area. If he felt that responsibility then if not on the crew his recourse was to write a note to DO about it. Even if they bought a car that was the wrong decision, there is most always a grace period where one could return it. When someone is very sure of themselves, they often have a lot of trouble restraining themselves.

Mark writes, “We had just purchased a rear-drive Cadillac…” So this was put into the past tense. Thus it seems the deal had been made and I’m sure DO was very much in on all the details of the deal. DO was a 100% hands on leader. Often Lggody was instrumental in buying cars as he was tall and with white hair and in his 50’s probably at that time. He also had a strong air of a business person because in the world he was a successful horse rancher and real estate developer and family man and I’ve heard had political inclinations. Also in the Class at times he worked as a car salesman. So he knew how to talk the trade.

Now Mark could have been privy to talk about the car they were intending to purchase. So Mark reports he “mentioned this issue to some individuals” (regarding it being a rear wheel drive car in a snowy area). It really sounds like Mark may have been putting his nose into another Crews business. He had that tendency from what TI and DO said in audio tape 37 I think it was. Again there could have been a way to bring things up but if he wasn’t presenting it according to procedure to preface it with something of a equivalence to “I could be wrong” then he was missing the lessons step.

This all seems to reinforce the idea that he did leave because he had too much self confidence in his own opinion and didn’t know when he could be wrong with his opinions. That’s not the way of a Next Level Crew Member so he was called out on it and didn’t feel to change that about himself thus the only recourse DO had was to send him to be outside the Classroom until he might want to change and then he could return. He never did want to return to the Classroom yet at this time in 2021 we’ve even seen evidence that he thinks he is a member of the Heaven’s Gate crew left behind to carry on Their legacy, while keeping others away from Their vast audio tape library and other materials except for token minimum maintenance of the web site – answering some emails and giving certain materials to media groups, etc.

So this seems to be what Mark and Sarah have done. They came to believe that they and only they had all authority over all the left behind information and they became ready to sue anyone who breached their claimed authority.

Niklas:

I’ve come across a number of claims that Mrcody’s departure stemmed from his inability to adhere to a lesson step called ‘I could be wrong’. This was a technique designed to decrease reliance on the self – and one’s own desire to be right – by overriding both soft and hard-wired circuits of the brain. Instead, complete trust should be placed in one’s Older Members, which is Next Level nomenclature for a superior.

3. Mark:

– Things spiraled out of control until we had a support meeting on September 22, 1987. Do realized that the idea of me getting an OOC task had not come from him but from Classmates who were unaware of what the future held. We got past this matter, but the automobile issue raised the notion that it was part of the whole ‘I could be wrong’ Mrcody problem. Certain people brought up instances of how I, over time, had made statements which seemed to confirm this attitude. Needless to say, it was a difficult meeting for me. Afterwards, Do wanted to speak to me privately, and we did so for a while. He could see that I did not want to go, but circumstances were forcing things to a head. Srfody and I left the following day.

3. Sawyer:

-Help Wanted Meeting for Mark:

Regarding what Mark called “a support meeting,” I recalled the meeting name was being called by TI and DO and Crew a “Help Wanted Meeting” which I attended on Sept 22nd 1987, (that I recall Overseers, Jwnody and Chkody called for Mark, that I’m sure DO knew about though as was procedure Help Wanted Meetings were never attended by TI and/or DO, though there was an assigned note taker, (often Mllody and/or Sngody who sent them, or in this case sent DO, since TI wasn’t in her vehicle any longer at that time, a report of what transpired.

The way I recall that meeting, Mark sat in the front of the big room and students who had some ideas of how to help Mark made their suggestions. The procedure for the recipient was to thank the students for their input. I don’t recall Mark saying anything. He just seemed to take it and Classmates were not rude or condescending to him but certainly were direct, while knowing and expressing they could be wrong about how they were suggesting they’d been taught to help someone with this or any other problem in the Classroom.

I don’t know how thankful Mark was for what he was offered, as of course he was aware of what others would say as advise, but one never knows what one had ceased to apply so the meetings could help. Over the 19 years in the Class I would say there were probably 4 or 5 of these kinds of meetings.

-Mark writes:

“Do realized that the idea of me getting an OOC task had not come from him but from Classmates who were unaware of what the future held.”

This is very odd. It is possible that Overseers of the Craft, at that time I think, were Jwnody and Chkody and as was often the case that I witnessed could have tasks to suggest partnership changes to DO and could have had, even an ongoing task to make suggestions to DO of who might get an OOC-Task. (OOC stood for “Out of Craft”. Since we referred to our residence as a spacecraft, a new term for our house – to help prepare our Minds for literally moving into a spacecraft, though we didn’t decorate the craft to look like a spacecraft. It also sort of turned off the vocabulary we used before entering TI and DO’s Class).

So I suppose Mark could have become aware or overheard Overseers talking about his getting an OOC Task. But there is no way any students would have come up with the idea on their own unless DO had opened that door. I mean DO could have been talking about his concern that our income was not as good as it needed to be to match expenses, so I suppose some students could have considered that idea of adding to the OOCT personal and talked about it out loud ahead of mentioning it to DO, but by in large no Students would even talk about that without having the OK from Headquarters (DO). The area of a craft that was where the SAT 3 Crew did most of their work was very small. It had a dining room size table in the middle. There could be several different tasks going on at the same time though some in SAT 3 would go to a rest chamber (bedroom) if they needed privacy. I believe I remember that if someone was doing a task even right next to you that you weren’t a part of, you would make a point to not pay attention to what they were doing. You would proceed with your own tasks. I know that Mark was very keen to what was going on in SAT 3 and the Craft which as a part of SAT 3 was part of his task but that TI and DO indicated he’d taken it to an extreme to even seek to know how Srrody brushed his teeth, if I recall, though perhaps DO wasn’t being exact in saying that on an audio tape.

By Mark saying “Do realized that the idea of me getting an OOC task had not come from him but from Classmates who were unaware of what the future held.” is pretty strange. Of course if DO didn’t instigate the idea He would have known he didn’t instigate the idea.

Then Mark makes it sound to me that Mark is insinuating that only he or only a few knew of the pending move. It’s hard to believe that Overseers wouldn’t have known as much as he about any impending move. Again as Mark does so often he says things that seem to show himself in a good light rather than take the correction of admitting his own mistakes and getting on with it. Instead he frequently puts the blame on Classmates for not being aware and on DO for not having “realized” something.

So he brings this up as an example of “things spiraled out of control” but then says, “We got past the matter…”. Who is “We” in this statement? Wouldn’t it either be DO and/or he and/or certain Classmates? And what about this pertained to his leaving the Group, if “they” got past it?

But perhaps it does have something to do with his leaving in his mind as it sounds like he was putting his head into things he had no business doing as it wasn’t his task to be concerned about his getting an OOC Task or not. A Student of TI and DO wants to do whatever tasks they are given to do. It doesn’t have to make sense to us. Even if Students stimulated the idea in DO’s Mind, DO wouldn’t ever take that as gospel. He would take it to TI (who at that time was outside her vehicle but who DO felt was close to him at times). He had a real connection with TI. Nothing imaginary about it.

This seems to show Mark is in denial that the “I could be wrong” lesson step was in fact seen by Students (and DO) as a big “problem” for him. To me this sounds a little sarcastic to say; “but the automobile issue raised the notion that it was part of the whole ‘I could be wrong’ Mrcody problem. That is how I did remember it all, that Mark’s Help Wanted Meeting was because he didn’t want to always used “I could be wrong” as a preface to stating a judgment of some kind. There were extremes to the use of that phrase but TI and DO didn’t spell them all out.

To me, Mark makes it sound as if he believes the fellow students were making it all up. In many organizations there could have been contention between members, and there was some in our group of course but DO was aware of everything because it was likely that each student would report to him the difficulties they had so he could help them and others and thus even help the entire Group get past their conflicts.

Mark admits a “support meeting” was held for him. Part of the structure of those meetings was to offer the one requested the meeting or assigned to have a meeting help in the area they requested it. The meeting was designed for fellow students to try to recall all the ways Ti and Do taught to deal with lesson steps.

It seems that for Mark to recognize that he had that “I could be wrong” problem is too embarrassing to admit. Since Mark is very intelligent in some ways and a very quick thinker and is very witty, he may think so much of himself that having anyone offer him correction is perhaps extremely difficult to hear or accept, so he seems to put off his mistakes on others like Rkkody in 1997 big time and to date, on Crlody (Carlan) then and to date, on me (Swyody) big time for many years and to date and Jhnody, of late and even my partner Cathy, but filing lawsuits against us all (except not yet on Jhnody). And DO says in audio tapes that Sarah (Srfody) added to his inflation of himself (paraphrased).

Should he admit to the events of his own making that led to DO sending him out of the Class further f actualizes that he had and by this very interview and many other actions that he still has that same problem and perhaps even more than before. It may be that the only way he can think of to try to keep his egotistical image alive and Sarah’s is by attempting to discredit me and the rest of us who were mentioned above. He and Sarah seem to look down on us in various ways as if they are such great servants of TI and DO. Even though they probably would deny all of this as they have denied aspects of it that I have asked them about directly years ago but more and more seemed to be right on as one of the explanations for their wanting to keep people from hearing TI and DO’s own words about them in the audio tapes.

I believe the Next Level’s TI and DO literally put them to the test and though they have done some of the tasks they were given involving handling some of their mail, and keeping up the web site and sending out some video tapes and the bear minimum of audio tapes, on the main task it appears they have been failing from adhering to what DO actually asked them to do, case in point being stated in their Letter from DO and Crew stating, “any items of value [in storage] that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our [DO and The Classes] information”. They say they intended on doing that but weren’t until Swyody and Crlody stopped and gave them back all the audio tapes we got from Rkkody and of late from Jhnody.

This is a huge example of how the Lower Forces can slip into us to have us literally act like we support TI and DO while persecuting their servants who want to spread their Truth which is the primary task at this time that every believer can choose to accept in service to TI and DO.

DO would have not permitted such a Help Wanted Meeting unless he felt there was good reason for the meeting. DO and Ti were very hands on leaders/teachers. And they were not at all easily fooled by students and knew that some students reports were not believed and so they would often seek out the person who a student made a claim against to see the facts.

Again, where are the details that led up to his thinking about leaving the class or did DO bring up his leaving when he met with DO after the Help Wanted meeting? I know when I reported to DO how I wasn’t following certain procedures, DO asked me, on two separate occasions what I wanted to do about it. I suggested calling my own Help Wanted meeting. The second time it came up, I said to DO, “I guess I have to leave” and he said okay, “you want to get more objective”. Then he told me to give the phone to another classmate and he told them to tell the others in the group “not to try to talk Swyody out of leaving the class because he knew what he was doing”.

In the case of Mark, what were the exact circumstances that forced things to a head? – the talk about OOC Tasks? – the talk about his inappropriate suggestions about the Cadillac they (Do and Crew) bought, perhaps not consulting with him about, and/or the other things brought up to him in the Help Wanted meeting?

DO was in no way a trivial person. He valued each student. I know this from personal experience working with DO as an Overseer and even being assigned to help Hvvody and Rthody when they were contemplating leaving. This last statement from Mark makes it sound to me like he believes DO based sending him out of the Group on a whim, because of these few things students said Mark said.

And if Mark truly didn’t want to leave, why is it that, from Mark’s remembrance, after he alleges that DO indicated to him that he (DO) had “made a mistake” – since DO was the one who sent him out of the Group, and said that DO “understood that the cure had been worse than the disease and called many days in a row to get us to come back,” which makes DO look somewhat desperate to get him back in the group, MARK DID NOT RETURN. Why didn’t Mark and Sarah return? And why is it that I remember DO giving Mark and Sarah a car and their being upset that it was the worse car we had at the time. Maybe I don’t remember that right but perhaps that’s one of the many details Mark leaves out here.

Niklas:

Like Mrcody, Srfody joined the Group after a September 1975 meeting in Waldport, Oregon – a gathering which saw about twenty people bid friends and relatives farewell and commit wholeheartedly to overcoming their mammalian behavior Today, the two of them serve as proprietors of the Heaven’s Gate website and all intellectual property left behind by the Class.

Sawyer: I could be wrong but believe I recall DO saying in a tape that there were 34 who joined from having attended the Waldport, OR meeting they gave on September 14, 1975.

4. Mark:

– I don’t know why Srfody was sent along with me, but she was expected back soon. They expressed as much to her by phone on September 24, but she could see how devastated I was from being asked to leave. She stayed. Within days, Do realized that a mistake had been made and asked us to return at once. He understood that the cure had been worse than the disease and called many days in a row to get us to come back. Do and his helpers had already left for Atlanta to perform some groundwork before the move, so those still in Boulder would’ve heard nothing about this.

4. Sawyer:

Mark writes that he didn’t know why Srfody was sent along with him. Right there his wording indicates he was “sent” to be outside the Group as opposed to leaving on his own accord as many others did. He also said in point #3 that “He [DO] could see that I did not want to go, but circumstances were forcing things to a head.”

But there is another part to this that puzzles me. I asked Carlan (Crlody) what was said while he was in the Group about Mark and Sarah’s leaving and if I recall accurately he told me their leaving had something to do with Mark and/or Sarah not wanting to change partnerships they had with one another.

I had no sense that Srfody planned to return. In fact, when it was settled that they were both going to be leaving the Class, DO instructed us say something to both of them. We lined up to take turns to say it to them. What we were instructed to say was something to the effect of, “You are welcome to come back if you both want to follow all our procedures”. If Sarah was “expected back soon” why did DO have us say that to both of them at that same time, in person.

Why be general, to say, “They expressed as much to her by phone on September 24…”. Who was “they” and what did they express to her? Did they ask her to come back or not?

Then Mark says, “she could see how devastated I was from being asked to leave”. Isn’t that a contradiction from being “sent along with me” to being in the next sentence saying they were “asked to leave”. Maybe Mark is not being that particular with the words he chooses here but given the vast amount of things he says that have little to no truth to them, words are all we got to show his contradictions so to hopefully arrive at the truth.

I could be wrong but they really seem to be doing a disservice to TI and DO at this point.

I would not be hardly talking about this if he and Sarah hadn’t waged this huge lawsuit against me, Cathy and Carlan attempting to devastate us financially for playing some audio tapes on my live-stream and selling some T shirts with images on them that they illegally trademarked and copyrighted, having no documents at all (according to Judge Lisa Guy Schall) to show that DO and Crew wanted that sort of thing done to their images and writing and audios and video’s or they would have done that themselves.

But pertaining to Sarah (Srfody) choosing to stay with a student (Mark) who didn’t want to follow all the procedures of DO’s Classroom, instead of returning to that same Class is in my view nothing short of either a lie or a gross mis-construction of what happened and a complete avoidance of taking their own responsibility for why they were literally “sent” out of the Class because of their own choices.

This would have been unheard of for a student of one’s Older Member choosing to leave their Older Member (DO) to be with another student that was asked/told to leave – if they didn’t want to follow all the procedures. Reading this in this interview causes me to reflect on the many initial students who left the Class, how and why. I don’t know all the “why’s” exactly but I doubt anyone left to go with another student. This was a unique circumstance.

DO has spoken in a number of audio tapes about Mark and Sarah’s being sent out of His Class and how they were looking to one another and not to him. If DO had said to Sarah to leave with Mark to help him, I would think DO would have told Mark and others that he sent Sarah to do such a task but I never heard that then nor heard it in any of the tapes we have about their leaving. Sarah may have said that to Mark or to one of DO’s helpers on the telephone I guess possibly to DO on the telephone but, by the evidence of what DO said in audio tapes the idea of Sarah being sent with Mark never happened.

In fact, it seems Mark giving this interview where he attempted to smear my reputation with claims that were not true the way he said it, may be a last ditch effort to try to save face to give people the impression that I’m making all this up regarding my first hand witness testimony of the events surrounding he and Sarah’s being sent out of the Class.

But if that strategy to try to discredit me as a reliable witness in some respect was on his mind for this interview his strategy is shot to hell because we have all the audio clips of what DO was thinking and doing in relationship to Mark and Sarah’s even going against DO in some respects. There appears to be a tape or two not available around that time. Some may be missing. For instance Mark said there were 1061 audio tapes. We have about 930. The 930 go into 1997. If the 131 or so tapes Mark still has were all recorded in 1997 as it appears then that would have meant DO made a tape at least every day from January to March 22nd when they began to leave. That is very unlikely but I’d love to know for sure if Mark would allow people to have them. What is he hiding. I’m not afraid to hear what’s on any of the tapes. There is one about my leaving that was difficult to hear but I’ve heard it or read the transcript 3 times now.

Niklas:

A meeting was called two weeks after the Group’s relocation to Peachtree, Atlanta. Do announced that he, ever since the move – and to his great dismay – could no longer feel Ti’s presence. Ti was Do’s Older Member, and he relied on her for guidance. Ti’s human container expired in 1985, so their correspondence was restricted to the ethereal plane. Consequently, the students quit their new jobs, packed up, and left for Colorado again.

5. Mark:

– To this day, many who remain from that time erroneously think we were kicked out because of ‘I could be wrong’. This became a watershed moment and Do realized that things needed to be corrected. But Srfody and I remained in Phoenix – not out of rejecting Do’s request, but because the Classroom still had these misunderstandings and none of them were being addressed. The back and forth went on into October, but things turned quiet after the new year. We resumed contact in late 1988.

5. Sawyer:

Again, Mark is blaming both DO and their Classmates for the reasons they were sent out of the Group. And he says nothing about perhaps being “wrong” in his observation/interpretation. I don’t know if this is deliberate, a story he and/or Sarah conjured up to try to combat the truth that I and many other former class members know or if they have told themselves this story for so long that that’s the way they remember it. I suspect it’s a little of both. Their noses are growing very, very long with what they are directly insinuating and their justifying themselves for getting kicked out. And the saddest part is that they have told Cathy and I that they believe both TI and DO are Older Members from the Next Level Above Human.

Cathy as a new believer in TI and DO and anyone else who has listened to their audio tapes and read their materials can also see right through this smokescreen. Cathy said to me in response to this fifth statement from Mark, that if “DO realized that things needed to be corrected He would have corrected things. DO would have held a meeting and/or spoke to the Class-members who according to Mark, “still had these misunderstandings” and blames DO once again, saying that “none of them [the misunderstandings] were being addressed”. And if there were misunderstandings among class members, since they were no longer in the Class how did they know DO didn’t address the alleged misunderstandings. Mark and Sarah assume so much and are taking no responsibility for their own failures as Class Members demonstrating exactly why they were sent out of the Class in the first place.

In other words they are saying DO failed to lead the class members That seems to mean Jwnody and Chkody and/or others were guilty of misunderstandings since they were the Overseers who called for the Help Wanted Meeting Mark talks about here. But Jwnody and Chkody and/or others were never “muted” for being a Trail Boss. Mark and Sarah might want to listen to audio tape 037 AB from 12/17/1982 – particularly the part that sis summarized in the log file that says, “Older Member is right no matter what – don’t compete or think you remember better – take the blame, wouldn’t blame them.”

For those that balk at this idea that the Older Member is right no matter what, it happens to be a fact because humans are all different in their capacity to perceive who is literally significantly Beyond them because most humans judge one another based on their financial success, looks, degrees, societal position, popularity, fame, intellect as they perceive it and/or Spiritual Stature. What many don’t know is what they often don’t know about reality and how Souls are real and have been here before and have experienced many things in previous lifetimes that others have not, which enables them to know more about certain realities and no longer have much if any desire to climb social or career ladders.

TI and DO, (The Souls who took the human vehicles and used those names) really were from The Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human, they didn’t bring into their conscious Minds all they knew for the sake of the task, but their perceptions were Beyond Human. It’s like working under the Captain of a ship. If a third class seaman in the Navy competes with the Captain they will have to be removed from that crew so they don’t interfere with the functions the Captain is in charge of. We who became students of TI and DO recognized TI and DO as our Admiral and Captain. We could have left at any time if we didn’t want to abide by all the procedures they gave us to follow. The Classroom always was an Next Level Astronaut Training Program. So when Mark and Sarah didn’t want to follow the procedure of acknowledging that they at any time “could be wrong” in their opinions, they ceased qualifying to be in the training program thus DO had to send them out of the Class until they chose to abide by all the Procedures.

Niklas:

How was your experience of re-integrating into society?

6. Mark:

– We used our skills from the Class and applied them to various human projects, all of which we excelled in. We soon bought autos and a house as we advanced in our careers. We’ve built many successful businesses from scratch by now. Do noted that we had pushed higher and further than any other former members. While there was never much emphasis on the human experience, he did inform us that applied effort and a concentrated desire to serve were Next Level attributes noticeable in any endeavor Our intention was still to serve the Next Level.

6. Sawyer:

Listen to this ego building, claiming that “Do noted that we had pushed higher and further than any other former members.” I’d like to have heard exactly what DO said that Mark has interpreted like that. We have it on audio tape that years before this DO felt Rkkody was in much better shape in relationship to the Next Level because he still recognized and wanted to look to his Older Members. I guess Mark may want people to believe they changed from 1987 through 1990’s in regards to DO and perhaps they did change, but if we look at what they are doing now, it’s clear that they have not changed and may have even gotten far, far worse in looking to their own Minds rather than to TI and DO’s Mind.

“Pushed higher”? What does that mean to DO – in making money…that wouldn’t be a criteria DO respected yet in point number 6, Mark he’s talking about purely human project advancements. “Pushed…further” in what direction? Okay, in the next sentence he clarifies that DO didn’t put “much emphasis on the human experience”. What was DO’s emphasis on then?

This to me seems to be yet another one of those exaggerations and even a type of filing in the blanks and attributing it to DO saying something. Another example of this is when Mark told me with Cathy as my witness that I also have in an email to Cathy that “Ti would slap you aside the head” if she heard that I got on an airplane while not vaccinated. None of us were ever vaccinated in the Classroom, though it wasn’t so prevalent in those years that I ever heard about. Maybe he said that because TI was a nurse in the world. But TI also didn’t see doctors as the “gods” many seem to think about them. There is a long list of these kinds of things they seem to think they can say with confidence that TI and/or DO said or would say and anyone that really knows TI and DO’s Mind in the least knows on many subjects they were not to be second guessed accurately.

And if they have built “many successful businesses”, maybe that explains why they are spending thousands of dollars on suing me and Cathy for selling some T shirts with the Older Member picture Ollody painted on them, that they illegitimately copyrighted though they had no proof of the group giving them the rights to that painting. They are also suing me and adding Cathy for audio’s I played before I met Cathy and for playing audio tapes of TI and DO on my live-stream on YouTube: 3spm after I met Cathy and Cathy tried to broker a deal between us to allow me/us to play them publicly The lawsuit includes trying to get us to pay over 75,000 at least in statuary and punitive damages as there are no actual damages because they have never sold anything from the Class, they say, besides the Book.

Re: their businesses, I wonder how many is “many”. I know they have a business that is like a Mail Boxes, Etc for many years so that’s probably one.

Niklas:

The Group began exploring new ground after Mrcody and Srfody’s departure. In the ’88 Update – The UFO Two and Their Crew, a manifesto of sorts, they describe a project called the Anonymous Shopaholics Celibate Church: an outreach program for chronic sexaholics seeking relief from their affliction. That was a wild idea, I must say. Considering how many former students mention celibacy as the most challenging aspect of purging themselves of human patterns, having raging nymphomaniacs living under the same roof sounds adventurous to the extreme.

7. Mark:

– Anonymous Shopaholics was a repackaging of the Next Level understanding for those humans who could most relate to it. The ‘88 Update was a mixture of different ideas Do thought might be relatable to the public. It sounded unusual but never added up to real people coming in. It did not have any effect, and there were no new members. But the Celibate Church did gain popularity within the Group and lasted a long time into the 1990s. It was a useful tool to evaluate the endless sexual games played on this planet – and for those who wanted off the ride. It brought up the notion that being non-sexual wasn’t such a bad idea for some on Earth. It made the abnormal seem normal, so those rid of carnal desires would not feel like freaks.

7. Sawyer:

Mark was not in the Classroom when DO had us begin to interface with groups like Sexahaulics Anonymous and Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous and others, mostly based in California but having chapters in Colorado and other places. It was DO’s next consideration of who He felt TI would have him interface with. His effort in that regard basically fell on mostly deaf ears.

Where did he get the description of DO and Crews effort to reach out to members of these groups as a “Repackaging of Next Level Understanding?” They were never supportive of human sexuality for those in the Classroom that hoped to evolve Beyond Human in this lifetime.

Since Mark wasn’t in the Class after 1987, I understand why he didn’t know why DO wrote the ’88 Update – The UFO Two and their Crew. It was to set the record straight in the many rumors that got reported by the media as facts mostly from 1975 to date.

It’s a report of he and TI’s meeting. At that time, Mark didn’t know that DO wasn’t seeking new members though he was experimenting with various projects in case there were some in the human kingdom who would still identify with what He and TI had been teaching. It wasn’t supposed to “add up to real people coming in”. Mark needs to listen to the audio tapes from that time to learn how DO was thinking if he’s going to portray himself as a know it all authority of what TI and DO taught and intended to be done with their information after they left.

Mark says, “it sounded unusual but never added up to real people coming in”. Wow, this sounds to me like he is faulting DO for not coming up with something that could “bring real people in”. What makes him think DO cared about “bringing real people in” or for that matter “fake people in”…that’s a joke as what’s a “real” person to Mark? I don’t think he knows how he sounds and what kind of thoughts he has that have seemed to become his own that are hyper critical of the very person he tells me and others he is a student of…namely DO. Or is he a student of what has become a facsimile of DO. There is a great deal of evidence from his mouth and actions of the later case.

Mark says about “’88 Update” that “it sounded unusual…” He’s got to be kidding, it is as unusual as can be and no different from what He and TI brought to the world that was also very highly unusual. And like I just said to equate that “unusual” nature to the material “never added up to real people coming in” seems to totally miss the point of ’88 Update. Of course it was designed to tell the truth with the hope that some would recognize it as something that made sense to them. DO didn’t come up with anything in it, I don’t think that TI hadn’t also felt before she exited. I wonder if Mark is insinuating once again that DO got off the track in some way after TI left. Maybe that’s part of why he seems to look up to Ben Zellers thinking that I believe has a similar view to it along with many others. Mind you I respect Ben Zeller and understand that he is approaching the subject as an academic but that doesn’t mean I agree with any of what he arrived at.

Mark should either listen to all the audio tapes from that time or ask me about what actually happened as the way he says things to me is so misleading. I don’t think he’s trying to do that but I think he just doesn’t know better.

There was no “popularity within the Group” involved in the Classroom. DO, as the Older Member ran things by Students and by that time sought out Students input on potential next steps. Those next steps almost always had to do with finding ways we might interface with the public again since 1975 and 1976. Yes, the idea of having a “church” in the title was mostly all that was about, as well as the word “celibate” in the literature they were planning on using IF they went ahead with such a project. As I was there then and into the 90’s I do recall having the documentation that we even sent to family members called, ASCC standing for “Anonymous Sexahaulics Celibate Church”. But even with that title that didn’t change anything that we were doing. We still operated with the same objectivity and had no religiosity. We didn’t have any religious symbolism on the walls nor Space based pictures. We had no ceremonies or rituals or special clothing to dress up in. Mark is saying that “popularity” of having a “church” lasted into the 1990’s, which is not at all what took place. In fact by the 90’s we were more inclined to try to interface with the people who surrounded the UFO phenomena subject matter. In 1992 DO had some student partnerships make video’s for the public. I was partnered by DO with Jwnody to make a video. From the video’s several partnerships made, DO asked that Classroom to kind of rate who did the best job and that might be the partnership who DO was considering sending out to talk to Christians, etc. The video Jwnody and I made was selected and DO approved of it but then felt he didn’t feel we were right to do that task. That’s when he decided to do the task that resulted in the Beyond Human – The Last Call video series.

To me Mark talks about this the way an academic talks about things they hardly know anything about saying about the Celibate Church project examination that, “It was a useful tool to evaluate the endless sexual games played on this planet – and for those who wanted off the ride.” What “evaluation?” DO wasn’t evaluating human sexuality. He knew from the start that there was no sexuality in the Next Level so there couldn’t be any in the Classroom who were trying to measure up to Next Level standards. People should listen to the audio tapes and they would see so much of what I’m saying for themselves.

Plus it wasn’t just about becoming non-sexual. After all there are all kinds of religious monks and nuns, what DO joked at times calling them “nonks and muns” who are celibate but are addicted to their sense of piety and being special to be full time religionists, getting off on others seeing them and seeing themselves as holy, etc.

I doubt Mark and Sarah listen to audio tapes. Maybe that’s another reason they don’t want anyone to actually hear those 1061 tapes as they don’t want people to see all the things they have been saying that are clearly not from TI and DO’s Mind. To pretend they are the ultimate authority of Heaven’s Gate seems to be the illusion they wish to keep up just because they received the task to handle the Groups mail and divide the contents of storage (audio tapes, etc.) among those who were inclined to disseminate their information. In Judge Lisa Guy Schall’s decision she even shows how Sarah even admitted that she and Mark’s task was to “distribute” videos.

Judge Lisa Guy Schall also wrote in her decision that of the information they provided to the court, to try to show they should have all the Groups possessions, which included one or more of the Letters they received from DO and Crew, distribution was the only task they were given (aside from handling of mail and a few fiduciary responsibilities. They then made it into their little empire dictating who could have what materials and what images and video’s could be shown.

The name we used in the 90’s was Total Overcomers Anonymous – TOA which can be seen on the original video tape jackets of the Video series DO and Crew (including me on the crew) called “Beyond Human – The Last Call”. One can see me being used in about 5 of the 12 sessions as a helper for DO. It may not look like we are doing much to help DO but the fact that those assigned that task were very positive minded made us good batteries and buffers against the negative influences that might otherwise try to interfere with DO.

I agree with the last sentence that the effort to reach out to those in those kinds of groups was seen as trying to help them go even further to end their sexual addictions and feel good about doing so. But what DO learned from having sent Pmmody and other students to some of these group’s meetings was that many resented the Class members acting like they know how to overcome the sexual addiction. And how some just want to keep thinking of themselves as addicts rather than totally cut off their sexuality which is harder to do. I recall in an audio tape DO talks about some of these groups trying to get addicts to have a normal sex lives when DO was hoping some would want no sex life anymore because they were recognizing it was behavior they were outgrowing.

Niklas:

There is one remark in particular from the ‘88 Update I find confusing: ‘We also thought that we could help AIDS victims realize that their problem could actually be their blessing.’

8. Mark:

– Ti always regarded this disease as a way of having a section of the human population realize that the reduction – or elimination – of sexual activity can clear the mind and bring it closer to the evolutionary movement towards the Next Level. She stated this in 1984, back when Boy George was more popular. His move towards androgyny may have confused the general public, but it was a step closer to having no gender roles or sexual activity at all. Ti believed AIDS offered people a chance to pause and consider relating to their fellow human beings in ways completely devoid of sensuality.

8. Sawyer:

I will have to review tapes that talk about AIDS before commenting on what Mark said. What Mark said doesn’t seem far off from what TI and DO taught about a disease helping someone overcome the behavior that contributed to one’s illness.

Niklas:

At some point in the late 80s, while residing in Poudre Canyon, Colorado, Do underwent a bout of Rocky Mountain spotted fever which reportedly dragged him to death’s door. Do later recounted to students how he came so close that he only needed to let go in order to exit his vehicle. But as much as he longed to be reunited with Ti, his tasks on Earth were as of yet incomplete. In 1990, the Class left all three Colorado crafts and resumed life in the outdoors, roaming from state to state. For a while, they camped in Phoenix, where they performed a thirteen-day water fast in preparation for a presumed UFO pick-up in the desert.

9. Mark:

– We heard about the spotted fever episode but have no details. We were also aware of the desert fast but did not participate – it was a difficult experience, from reports back. We did not meet with them physically around this time; for security reasons, both parties kept to themselves. We seriously contemplated a return, but the same issues might have resurfaced. Do spoke with both of us, yet the opportunity did not present itself in a workable manner. It was tempting, though.

9. Sawyer:

I wonder what Mark means by saying they got “reports back”. I know this can seem picky but the words people use show how their minds work and contain insinuations and open doors to misinterpretation that leads to misinformation, especially with the subject matter of Heaven’s Gate. So to me those two words can make it sound like DO was reporting to them. Maybe there was some of that happening as DO may have wanted to keep them abreast of some things we were doing in the Class so if they wanted to they could do some version of it, since over a number of phone calls to them, they still wanted to stay in touch. Other dropouts didn’t want any contact. I’m embarrassed to say that was me but I’m glad to say I didn’t remain in that frame of mind, though didn’t shift without their help in ways that included many dreams including them that occurred after they left their human vehicles. In fact I think it’s clear that my lack of wanting to stay in touch was probably the main reason DO didn’t include me in the list of dropout students who would receive a Fed X packet from Them on March 25th or thereabouts. Mark seems to hold this against me and seems to resent that when I did surface publicly standing up for TI and DO I participated in a great deal of press while they were hiding according to Rkkody. I understand the stress of having their Postnet business carry the address that was on the Heaven’s Gate website but they had agreed with DO to provide that address to the public, though it seemed the timing and probably method of the Groups exit took them totally by surprise.

I participated in the fast. The first day was a fast on air only all day long. The next 12 or 13 days was a fast on water only. It was difficult. No one was harmed by it. Some of us went into it thinking we might exit our vehicles that way. I believe we had just moved out of Albuquerque and sold all our houses of furnishings in estate sales in Albuquerque and Sante Fe and got re-outfitted in Trailers and Tents to go into the dessert to live again. I believe I recall DO saying he made a mistake to have the Class break the fast by eating tangerines which were plentiful at that time in Yuma, AZ where we were living in trailers on BLM or National Forest lands. However, I bet it was a test for some so perhaps no mistake at all. DO said at one point when he talked about how he had used an old credit card to rent a car in late 1993 not knowing how they would pay for charge that it was a mistake to do but that they had instructions to do it. To me that means he was willing to make mistakes for the sake of the lessons Students would get when they learned they had made a mistake. So many people would disqualify them as being who they said they were, thinking such elevated Beings couldn’t make mistakes. But that’s an illusion to believe. However, from the perspective of we humans, even students using human vehicles any so called mistakes TI and/or DO said they made were not at all mistakes as far as we are concerned. That’s part of why some of the things Mark directly implies about DO, as DO having made mistakes or gained some new realization shows to me, though I could be wrong, that Mark has lost a chunk of knowing he once might have had. I’m not saying he couldn’t get it back and I’m not pretending I can judge his relationship with DO but there is a huge amount of evidence that he and Sarah have gone very far astray from what DO hoped they would do after They left their vehicles in 1997.

I was present in the Class when DO contracted Rocky Mountain Spotted Tick Fever and felt like he could “curl up and die” and wanted to but asked TI if he could exit then and he told us as I recall that TI said to him he could leave if he wanted to and DO then felt the students would have a hard time continuing without him physically present and he didn’t want to shorten the task TI had given him to do, so decided he would not exit then.

Niklas:

Come May 1993, to the cost of $29,911, Heaven’s Gate – using the name Total Overcomers Anonymous – took out a three-quarter page advertisement in USA Today titled UFO Cult Resurfaces with Final Offer. Variations of the same ad were placed in dozens of other publications across the United States. Everything was funded by the students, most of whom had qualified jobs by then.

Sawyer: My understanding was that the info-ad was 1/3 of a page, but I don’t doubt Mark and Sarah received some documentation so I may have that wrong.

10. Mark:

– The USA Today piece was the main expense. The regional papers received a modified version which cost far less. Many were package deals where you’d publish in one and, for a bit more, it would appear in affiliated papers. From regional publications like Dimensions and Free Spirit in the northeast to Pathfinder and Phenome News in the Midwest – we published wherever we could. We were also featured in international magazines like Steam Shovel Press and Nexus. All the publication dates and issues are listed in Section 5 of our anthology.

10. Sawyer:

Speaking of wording, when Mark said, (capitalizations are mine); “WE published wherever WE could. WE were also featured in international magazines like Steam Shovel Press and Nexus. All the publication dates and issues are listed in Section 5 of OUR anthology”

Mark and Sarah were not at all in the Group at that time or any time after they were sent out of the Group in 1987. They were given a number of opportunities to serve DO again after 1987 but most were refused. This is well documented in the audio tapes. They had zero to do with the “anthology” which is referring to the Heaven’s Gate Book. Yes, they published it and is seen today as their purple book. They even criticized me for using the same color for the publishing of my book though the reason I did it was two fold with the primary reason being that I thought the color they chose was because it was TI’s favorite color. The other reason was because my book seemed to be a continuation of the fact that DO included primary scriptures from the New Testament in the back of his Book.

I was there when DO wrote what he sent to USA Today. I was also there when Jwnody wrote a modified version and sent copies of it to many periodicals, some of which Mark mentioned here. I don’t know who all participated in the changes to the USA Today piece but can’t imagine they ran anything by Mark and Sarah any more than they ran them by me or most other class members.

They are putting on the appearance that they are one and the same as members of the Group were and that is very, very misleading. It really smacks to me of what happened to Paul of Tarsus according to the records in the Book of Acts. While still referred to as Saul, while he was persecuting true believers of Jesus after Jesus left, he said he was blinded by a flash of light and heard a voice that was said was heard by others:

Act 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
Act 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Act 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

In other words, Saul went against Jesus’ followers, even potentially responsible for the stoning to death of Stephen and then was influenced by some vision or discarnate or Space Alien Fallen Angel Soul to think of himself as having had a direct contact and instruction from Jesus.

In other words, this is a tactic that the lower forces use to commandeer the Teachings from the incarnate Older Members to create a religion from them. So what happened is that Saul changed his name to Paul and his letters when found became the primary foundation of what became Christianity with Emperor of Rome, Constantine declaring himself a Christian and building churches and making decrees.

When DO and Crew left in 1997 they left a setup for former Students to be tested. DO knew that some students could be trusted to act quickly to retrieve “any Items of Value” from Storage, which Rkkody ended up doing after Mark and Sarah turned over all their letters and keys to vehicles and codes and addresses to at least 2 storage rooms, with one containing all the audio meeting tapes. Had Mark and Sarah acted quickly to even inform Rkkody of the content of the Letters they received to inform Rkkody to get the truck from one storage room and use it to go to the other storage room to load it up with it’s contents, then none of the complication would have occurred that did occur.

Okay, so that was Mark and Sarah’s first mistakes – not acting quickly enough because they were afraid of what might happen since their Postnet business was where the Group used an address and their names were with Rkkody’s on the letter DO wanted to send to the owner of the mansion after their bodies were discovered. This is according to Rkkody’s manuscript which there is no reason to believe is fabricated but no doubt Mark and Sarah may claim that it is.

At that point when San Diego found out about the storage room and put a lock on it, the only choice was to engage a lawyer to help get the contents back into the hands of those students who wanted to disseminate the Group’s information.

But when Mark and Sarah were ruled to have filed a frivolous lawsuit and threatened to hold up the auction, etc. by filing an appeal, the court sought a settlement that cost Mark and Sarah upwards as much as 500,000.00 according to Mark in this article. So the Judge gave them a Consent Decree and ownership of the contents of storage that didn’t include 486 audio tapes Rkkody had removed from Storage before the Storage was taken by San Diego County.

And here’s my point to comparing this with the Influence that changed Saul to Paul:

This is approximately when Mark and Sarah saw that there really weren’t very much the media was doing to cause them any problems so they wanted the task back. Hence the government decree became the first of two such decrees that enabled Mark and Sarah to have a legal criteria to lord over the material, that is until they went against me, Cathy and against Carlan (and Jhnody, though he isn’t named in the lawsuit to stop us from doing anything with any of the information. Mark and Sarah want us to turn over any of the information we have so they can be the only disseminators of the Information and no doubt one of the first things they would do if they haven’t already was find out in the audios all the spots where they (Mrcody and Srfody) are spoken about and just take those files out.

This is exactly what the Catholic church did to the abundance of manuscripts they had. They formed them into the Canon and went about persecuting anyone who taught the contents of what Jesus said outside of the clergy who they deemed were the only ones who had the task to do the teaching.

So these usages of “we” and “our” is direct evidence of how Mark and Sarah think of themselves, as if they are DO’s only current “Reps” on earth. Others could participate in disseminating TI and DO’s information IF, IF, IF they bow down to the wishes of Mark and Sarah King. We know this is true as we have the document they gave us in their attorney’s office in November of 2021 listing all the many rules we needed to agree upon before we did anything and that if we breached the rules even our children would be held libel to their so called authority.

To speak as if they were part of the group and had anything much to do with any of this is outrageous. I was there and even I don’t like speaking about these materials as including me in their creation. Mark is assuming he is in such good graces with DO that he and Sarah must take any measures to insure no one else interferes with what they want to do or not do regarding the Intellectual Property of the Heaven’s Gate Group.

Furthermore regarding to The “Anthology” mentioned here by Mark, is referring to the Book the Group put together entitled, “How and When The Door to the Physical Kingdom Level Above Human May Be Entered – an Anthology of Our Materials” before Mark and Sarah even knew it existed complete with documents, most, even all of which Mark and Sarah weren’t in the Class when they were formulated.

Rkkody was sent in his Fed X package copies of the first edition of the same Book. Jhnody was also sent a copy of the Book which was before Mark and Sarah published it and changed the copyright page to the Telah Foundation from Common Law Copyright – encouraging anyone to copy it entirely or parts of it as long as none of it was changed or added to and were not doing it for commercial purposes. (I don’t believe commercial purposes included believers charging for their expenses of disseminating the information. I have evidence of that).

This further demonstrates why Mark doesn’t want anyone else to disseminate TI and DO’s information to the public. He (and Sarah) think only they have that task and so when I or Cathy or Carlan or Jhnody do it, to them we are rogue bulls “confusing” who they say is really authorized by DO to do the dissemination task. Mark and Sarah in their lawsuit complaint used the word, “confuse” against us, saying we were causing confusion in the use of the phrase Heavens Gate.

The fact is that DO hoped that anyone, any new believer would Stand in He and TI’s defense and that it was a task given to new believers to disseminate Their information not just two x-students who were blaming DO for being sent out of the Class, putting DO down as Mark has demonstrated here in this article repeatedly. For 25 years they have been almost totally hording the audio tapes. They would send someone a link to download one at a time. Cathy ended up getting 4 from them over time. The link becomes inactive so in some cases she had to re-ask for a new link because she didn’t listen to it all when she had it and/or wanted to listen to it or parts of it again. These audio tapes are jam packed with information that is frankly Beyond Human comprehension unless one keeps after it and seeks to absorb it and apply it. Then more and more becomes apparent In that way, it’s much like the records of what Jesus said. There are layers of understanding. So to make it so hard to have tapes is thinking they can only be had if someone proves to them they are worthy, have the thirst and aren’t going to be like Pearls Before Swine. That’s how they think about a lot of people, as “swine” and as “cockroaches”. I and Cathy are witness to them using those terms to define people.

If anyone is giving Heaven’s Gate a bad (“confusing”) reputation and name, it’s Mark and Sarah in the ways they have treated many who have written to them that I and Cathy know about and have first hand provable evidence of.

Niklas:

These ads stirred enough interest for the Group to re-open ‘the harvest’ – as they referred to the recruitment process – and hold public meetings again for the first time since 1976.

11. Mark:

– They tested the waters in Denver and Albuquerque in November 1993, but the harvest didn’t go live until the following January when they were in the LA area. The Group actually grew from twenty-four to fifty during this time, with people coming and going throughout the year. Some entered because they thought they’d be leaving on a spacecraft immediately, but the veterans knew this was not the case.

11. Sawyer:

Jwnody and I (Swyody) held the meeting in Denver in November of 1993 as a testing of the waters like Mark said. Our report to DO was that it went well, there seemed to be interest. I don’t know if anyone went to that meeting who ended up joining once we started heading out to hold meetings on January 1, 1994 or not, though upon returning to that area, I think it was Chkody and I who held another meeting in that area and Golden (Gldody) joined from. As was the case for most all TI and DO believers, what she heard made total sense to her and she knew this was what meant everything to her so needed to give her 100% effort to. This is an example of my response to the meeting I attended with TI and DO talking on September 14, 1975 and this is the type of response Cathy has said she had when she watched the Beyond Human – The Last Call Video series. And there are others still having that response when they hear it.

I’m glad to see Mark speaks about us at that time as “They” instead of acting like he was a part of it, as he did in point #10.

We actually launched the Public meeting schedule from the San Diego area not from L.A.

I don’t think the group ever grew to 50 but even if it did for a time during that 9 1/2 month holding of public meetings a bunch of those were returning dropouts who had been either looking for DO over years even or who still had some contact with DO after they dropped out.

That return of a bunch of dropout students started in 1993 with the publishing and uploading of the Beyond Human Video Series to a Satellite TV channel. A bunch of dropouts individually watched the Beyond Human series on Satellite and for those that had a way to get in touch with DO, did and DO invited them to rejoin. As I recall they were Rkkody, Stlody, Tllody, Jhnody (from seeing the broadcast in Venezuela), Flxody and her husband a new believer who became named Ablody, Gnrody, a new believer (who had been partnered with Rkkody when Rkkody was in the world) and Evnody, a new believer (who was a half sister to Stlody who became interested when Stlody left the Group). Also Slvody and Jstody returned having joined in 1975 or so who were a couple in the world. (Jstody left some time shortly after rejoining but with Rkkody decided to exit his vehicle by his own hand in around February of 1998. Also there was Rddody who was a new believer who was a homeless person who DO allowed to join us, but he didn’t stay very long because he started finding fault with Class members (including me) and didn’t want to take the correction from DO. DO asked him where he wanted to go so DO could give him transportation to wherever he chose. He chose to receive a Greyhound bus pass that was good for unlimited travel for a year and he was taken to the nearest bus station. He was probably given a little spending money as well.

Niklas:

Phoenix was one of the few places they managed to get local news coverage – did you have a hand in this?

Sawyer: We actually got great coverage from the Dallas Morning news, from a Portland radio station and from the newspaper in Missoula, Montana where we also held meetings. “We” in this case refers to the small Group I was an overseer, with my partner, of. In the case of Dallas, several smaller groups joined together to hold that meeting. I don’t know of what media the other 4 or 5 small groups obtained. We also attracted media to the meeting “my” group put on southeast of Portsmouth, New Hampshire. I’m sure other groups had media coverage as well.

12. Mark:

– No, this was not our doing, but we did meet up with them while they visited Arizona in February 1994. We later saw them in Tucson, where they asked us to come back into the Group. Some of those who’d started the rumors that forced us to leave in 1987 had left by then – ironic, isn’t it? So, we asked for time to think. We considered making that transition but ultimately did not.

12. Sawyer:

Mllody and I and the group of students we were Overseers for held the Tucson meeting then and also got news coverage for on UFO AZ, a public access TV station created and run by Ted Lohman who we were also on the show with. I recall after that meeting that another of our Groups held a meeting in a suburb town south of Mesa or Tempe, as I recall and that may be the meeting Mark is talking about as there was some local news coverage of it. I was in the audience at that meeting and saw Mark and Sarah there as well.

But DO told us after that time that he had asked Mark and Sarah if they wanted to return into the group and that they declined.

Again, Mark saying here that, “Some of those who’d started the rumors that forced us to leave in 1987 had left by then – ironic, isn’t it?”

This is so hard for me to see in writing but is very telling of the Mind he lost. This statement to me shows that even today he has little trust that DO is his Older Member, as if DO was influenced to send him and Sarah out of He and TI’s Classroom because of anything (rumors) said to DO about them. DO sent them out of the Classroom reluctantly because they didn’t want to look to him as their Older Member anymore. This is a huge example of Mark not knowing how wrong he is about the whole episode. No wonder he gave at least one email interview where when asked why they left the Group, Mark and Sarah said nothing about being sent out of the classroom.

On top of that, he’s saying it’s ironic that those class-members were at that time in 1994 out of the Class as if to say it was their bad karma because they influenced DO with rumors that caused DO to send them out of the Class. The ones I recall that left the Class after them until 1994 were Hvvody, perhaps Pypody, Cddody (who DO sent to a half way house situation in Dallas where Brnody and Anyody were also living for a period, except Cddody when offered by DO to return in 1994 declined (and has since died), Rthody who also was on the fence about staying in the Class following the second family visit where he spent time with his vehicle’s brothers and their families that he then wanted to leave to be around, Pmmody who left in 1992 or so and Andody who left in 1992 or 1993. Of those, though I might be wrong but only Pmmody was in Sat 3 north craft at that time. That might not be so as I think Rthody and Hvvody might have been in that craft at that time as well but like me there, Rthody and Andody and Hvvody I believe all had OOC Tasks so probably wouldn’t know as much about what was transpiring between Mrcody (Mark) and other students that became what surfaced Mark’s ceasing to follow the I could be Wrong procedure.

I could find ways to ask Pmmody, Rthody, Hvvody and Andody about their recollection of those events surrounding Mark and Sarah’s being sent out of the Classroom but to date I don’t really care to.

Niklas:

Come September 1994, Heaven’s Gate had returned to California and taken up residency in the city of San Clemente, where they slept in tents inside a warehouse. From their many years on campgrounds through all seasons, the senior members had considerable outdoors experience. As such, they could get contractor work testing out camping equipment. One day, Do summoned the Class to a meeting during which he – flanked by a vacant chair to signify Ti’s presence – broached the topic of purposely shedding their human husks. In his view, it was a means of leaving behind the cumbersome corporeal vessel to allow for the consciousness to return to the Next Level. Just like Jesus, the same spiritual being that now occupied Do’s body, had done two thousand years prior by willingly submitting to crucifixion. The Group were down to around forty members at this point; one of them left, but the rest stayed.

A common speculation is whether they would’ve moved towards the physical exit strategy if Ti had remained at the helm.

13. Mark:

– We feel it would’ve come from Ti sooner than Do, but we don’t know for sure. It’s hard to conjecture about this. We were unaware at the time, but the development itself was unsurprising. From the beginning, Ti and Do knew we would not be entering the Next Level in our human bodies. Flesh and blood are not made for space travel. Instead, we’d receive new, space-capable Next Level bodies. You vacate your earthly vessel either before or after entering the craft – take your pick. And don’t tell us that tethered trips to the moon or Mars are ‘space travel’. Exiting the earth’s atmosphere on an explosive chemical tube and hoping you’ll make it back in one piece is controlled playtime in our restricted solar system; high-speed movement around the universe, it is not. The Next Level controls our playground.

13. Sawyer:

At least Mark says it’s “conjecture” after stating his opinion. However the opinion, what they, Mark and Sarah feel really seems to be another of the many tell tale signs that they even at this point think poorly of DO and his choices. For example:

To say, “it would’ve come sooner from Ti than DO” to refer to the exit timing based on the use of the word, “sooner”, given the fact that DO looked to TI as his Older Member, His Heavenly Father aka Jehovah in the records and religious terms, his “Admiral,” doesn’t that say DO was tardy in exiting? Doesn’t it directly state that DO was not in tune with what TI would have done? I highly doubt they are implying that TI would have wrongly exited sooner as if it was good that DO took so long to exit.

This seems like a little thing but in fact it’s huge and shows how right DO was in audio tape #849 from 07-23-94 where DO says Mrcody and Srfody could not stay in Class in relationship to each other so he instructed them to leave in 1987. That’s not the only audio tape clip saying that they became satisfied with looking to one another, thus no longer to DO who they referred to as their Older Member.

They seem to directly imply that they think DO was a weak leader and the facts are exactly the opposite but not in a human way. DO wasn’t dictatorial at all. Just the opposite but when it came to Standards He and TI stood for, though patient and tolerant and forgiving, as they said in scripture “ruled” with a two edged sword of his Mind (words) requiring those who showed he and TI they wanted that rule to sever all their ties to this world to be “accounted worthy”.

Again it shows how little he really thinks of DO and about what DO’s relationship with TI was all about. DO was fully acting on TI’s behalf while also operating as a partnership while TI was in a human vehicle and thriving on staying in tune with TI step by step as he finished the task TI gave him. The only way someone can really begin to see what I’m saying as true is to listen to a bunch of audio tapes. It really doesn’t take a bunch and of course some will listen to even a bunch and still not see what I’m saying.

I challenge Mark to show us some evidence that TI would have left sooner than DO determined was time to exit. Saying things like this is irresponsible and I’ve had to follow his interviews over the years correcting these kinds of things he and/or Sarah would say. I’m not claiming to be perfect in this regard but the big difference is that I want to be corrected rather than leave misinformation in the public record.

Maybe the fact that Mark wasn’t in the Class after November of 1987 left him with little recognition of how DO went about making choices without TI’s physical presence. He was far more careful in a sense as it was a different relationship with TI outside a physical human vehicle. He literally knew when TI was closer and/or when TI’s Mind was closer via whatever technology TI was using. That’s why when DO moved us all to Atlanta and He couldn’t feel TI’s presence as He could in Colorado, He felt “underwater,” I recall Him saying. When we learned of that a number of students said to DO, let’s move back to Colorado and DO said He felt terrible asking us to do that as He had spent so much money renting three 24 foot Ryder trucks and all the effort to load them with three houses of furnishings galore and giving notice at our jobs in the world, many of which were high tech jobs that employers would be upset about our leaving and leasing three big houses in the Peachtree Dunwoody area of north Atlanta, having to pay thousands of first, last and deposit to live in and in some cases like me, I found a job working for Peachtree Software and hardly came up to speed in learning how their software worked so I could trouble shoot bugs and fix them, what I was good at.

Some students said to him that without his feeling a strong connection to TI, it didn’t matter how much money was involved/lost. DO wondered if He had made a mistake. After all TI had felt for years that going east of the Mississippi river felt like they had less of a connection to their Older Member – TI’s Older Member who was working with both of them from His spacecraft. But even feeling that, they at times felt like they had instructions to take the class east of the Mississippi. Like when we moved to a camping area somewhat north of Biloxi, Mississippi and stayed for maybe a month at most as I recall. Even when TI and DO felt they made mistakes, they knew the difference when they were abiding by instructions from their Older Member. No doubt DO had instruction from TI to move to Atlanta. After all I wonder how that tested some students as one could wonder… didn’t DO go there first to check it out, which he did. Some class-members saw this as a weakness and if they did the Next Level would see that and would even put them to a test to see if they would choose to overcome that negativity or leave the Class because of.

Didn’t Mark recognize that question that many in the media have asked me and that puts DO in a light of having failed? Maybe he hasn’t had much experience being interviewed and perhaps he too allowed himself to wonder if DO lost something after TI left that caused him to get off track from what TI had started with him. That statement directly says that DO hadn’t acted as TI would have.

I’ve heard that view from some former students (in person and in media they have done), like Andody (aka Frank), Rthody (aka Michael), Dncody (aka Dick currently deceased having died over 10 years ago as I recall from complications of HIV), and heard it privately but also in person from Cddody (aka Fred or Dale who also died from a health problem some years back), and I think there were others who made the same claims that DO got off track after TI left and led them to exit as they did when they think TI never would have gone in that direction.

This shows how little they knew of TI. They are letting themselves get conned by the Lower Forces to think that way because there is no evidence of that.

I may be wrong but also feel I’ve heard that view from Robert Balch and perhaps from Ben Zeller. If they are saying that they are showing they don’t know what they are talking about. I haven’t heard Mark or Sarah say it but considering how little Mark seems to think of DO in this article, as shown by my comments in this interview, I wouldn’t be surprised if he and/or Sarah hold some of that opinion that DO got off track in exiting when and by that method of their own hands and/or with that timing.

re: Mark’s statement, “From the beginning, Ti and Do knew we would not be entering the Next Level in our human bodies.

This sort of shocked me to hear as even new believer Cathy has listened to the Beyond Human Series frequently and read the Heaven’s Gate Book several times and listened to dozens of audio tapes, knew what TI and DO were teaching included taking one’s living human physical vehicle (body) on board the spacecraft that would pick them up. In fact TI and DO have met with much criticism over saying their students would leave with their human bodies albeit changed over into Next Level bodies, when that didn’t happen, as if that alone was the criteria that demonstrated whether TI and DO really were exactly who they said they were.

Perhaps what Mark means to say here is that it would be a converted (changed over) human vehicle that goes to Heaven if that is the way the Next Level decides. But if that’s what Mark meant, why didn’t he explain himself better. It’s so misleading to people to say inaccurate things like that. Maybe he forgot what all TI and DO said about it? Or maybe Mark just made a typo in this sentence and it wasn’t caught or corrected but in case Mark got confused about that I’ve included just a few of the many statements made by TI and DO and Crew on the subject:

a. From the Prospective Candidate Letter TI and DO wrote for us in 1975 to give to would be students:

“This is not a spiritual trip. To reach the Next Kingdom above human, your body must
literally be converted over biologically and chemically. This metamorphic process happens
automatically as you will yourself to overcome your humanness.”

b. From Statement One written by DO while in prison that He and TI provided at public meetings in 1975 and 1976 which is in the Heaven’s Gate Book:

“Those who can believe this process and do it will be “lifted up” individually and “saved” from death – literally. If you seek those two while they are here they will gladly fill you in on the details and assist those who wish to follow in this “path.”

Speaking of Jesus:

Approximately 2,000 years ago an individual of that next kingdom forfeited his body of that kingdom and entered a human female’s womb, thereby incarnating as the one history refers to as Jesus of Nazareth. He awakened to this fact gradually through the same metamorphic process and came to know that he had incarnated for the express purpose of telling and showing, even to the point of proof, that the next kingdom can be entered by overcoming the human aspects and literally converting into a “man” or creature of that next kingdom – the kingdom of his Father – one who is already a member of that kingdom. By His resurrection He proved that death can be literally overcome and that a permanent body for the next kingdom is acquired from the human kingdom. He did not leave His body in the grave. He converted it into His body of that next kingdom. This is the only way the next kingdom is entered permanently. Each human has that full potential. Jesus’ “Christing” or christening was completed at His transfiguration (metamorphic completion) and He remained in the “larva” environment, with other humans, only for some 40 days to show that His teaching had been accomplished. He showed them His new body and demonstrated a few of its new attributes, IE, appearing and disappearing (changing His vibrations) before their eyes while letting some of His friends touch His “new” body. This could be compared to a butterfly remaining in the caterpillar world for a few days to show them what they had to look forward to if they chose to seek true conscious communication with a butterfly and were willing to overcome all of their caterpillar ways. Then Jesus left them in a cloud of light (what humans refer to as UFO’s) and moves and returns in the same manner.

c. Here are some of the responses from TI (Bonnie) and DO (Herf) as recorded in the book, UFO Missionaries Extraordinary about going to the Next Level without one’s physical human body needing to die:

Question from Dan Garcia from pg. 71:
Then why is it necessary to convert to the next kingdom?

Bonnie: Because you have to make room for others.
Herf: You have to go through the human kingdom to get to the next… It depends on what your mind is on. A human apparently dies… you would never need to die again. You would overcome decay; you would have the capacity with your mind to create anything you desired; you would have the capacity to serve as agent to help humans come up to the level you have graduated to, and you would not be confined to a single planet.

from page 89:
“The only reason Jesus reappeared to his disciples after his death was to tell them he was flesh and bone. He was not spirit. He didn’t have to be crucified and rise from the dead. He just proved that he’d changed over into another creature that could even heal it’s body and take it with him into the next level.

Now the whole world has twisted what he said into believing that if we’re good little boys and girls and go faithfully to the grave we’ll get some little spirit body that can go to the heavens; and it’s an illusion. You do not have to die.”

Question from pg. 106:
It has been suggested that your followers are prepared to fast to the point of starvation. Is it true that your followers must die in order to gain the price of admission to a UFO for translation, transition, to the next level above human?

The Two: They do not have to die any more than Moses died or Elijah died or Enoch died. They will be lifted up wherever they are. Their metamorphic conversion, their change, will be accelerated. Some short time after we go, they will be prepared to leave. When they are prepared to leave, they will be lifted up.

d. From “Our Position Against Suicide” posted on the Heavensgate.com website that Mark and Sarah have been the webmasters of for some 24 years. Note it says they plan on boarding the spacecraft “in our physical bodies”. How does that square with what Mark said here. (In this document they go on to share what the other possibilities are for exiting leaving their physical bodies behind because of various reasons:

“We fully desire, expect, and look forward to boarding a spacecraft from the Next Level very soon (in our physical bodies). There is no doubt in our mind that our being “picked up” is inevitable in the very near future. But what happens between now and then is the big question. We are keenly aware of several possibilities.”

If he really did mean to say this and believes it, in my opinion that of course could be wrong from how TI and DO would see it, it’s yet another signal that he has some resentment towards DO because of the choices DO made in sending him out of the Class. More and more I feel as though I am seeing that resentment, that he’d probably deny, but that also shows up in the fact that he has been choosing to not follow DO’s instructions to him, via the Letters he got via Fed X on March 25th 1997 that described Their exit and how to handle what they left behind for them and other former members and any new believers to do to share their information with the world.

Mark and Sarah were instructed by DO regards to “any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information”

The storage room being spoken of contained the 1061 audio tapes recorded from 1982 to 1997. Along with handling their mail and helping to publish the book and maintain the web site and take care of some legalities this was their task and one that they have failed at as they won’t allow myself and Crlody (and now Cathy) and others to do that dissemination task. It’s like an Influence has had Mark and Sarah believe keeping the material away from the public was somehow the right thing to do, the opposite of what DO wanted for this time frame.

re: Mark writing: “Flesh and blood are not made for space travel. Instead, we’d receive new, space-capable Next Level bodies. You vacate your earthly vessel either before or after entering the craft – take your pick.”

“take your pick”. I never heard TI or DO say anything about a student getting to make that choice and I doubt they ever did say that. I don’t think Mark is aware of how much misinformation he may be sowing. Some people think what he and Sarah say is representative of what TI and/or DO have said/taught, because they were among the former dropout students to have the task of posting the website. I’ve considered posting the website myself and Rkkody gave it to me, but I didn’t think Mark and Sarah were misusing their position the way that I keep hearing from others, and from this article and others they are. The list of their abuses of the information is very long at this point.

This is putting out misinformation. It seems like that game of telephone to where something heard gets changed and changed by the recipient IF they don’t continuously research what exactly TI and DO said about said subject and try to restrain themselves from interjecting their mind and ideas into the teachings. I have seen myself doing this at times as well but I also do try very hard to research things I say so I’m not just relying on my memory which I know is fallible

For instance as I just showed from Statement One, DO writes that Jesus came back after healing his human vehicle to show that he was still “flesh and bone” and then he took that same body with him to board the spacecraft hidden by a cloud. Is Mark saying that a Next Level spacecraft can not manufacture an environment that wouldn’t damage a human vehicle to be in while it’s on a spacecraft from the Next Level? I do recall that certain Next Level Member’s physical bodies could not exist very long in a human dense decaying environment. We need to be very careful when we hear ourselves saying something about what the Next Level can or can’t do. He may be right to some degree but I’d be careful not to guess at something like that.

I do recall TI and DO talking about exiting our human vehicle before entering the craft OR after entering the craft but what was again not mentioned here is what if one enters the craft with their converted over Human vehicle. In that case they may not leave that human vehicle at all, neither before or after boarding the craft. I could be wrong but do recall TI and DO saying at one point that they didn’t know what use a human vehicle would be to the Next Level. Then at another time they thought it was possible the Next Level might like to analyze the human vehicle that provided for a Soul accomplishing enough of a metamorphosis to have changed over the vehicle into a Next Level vehicle.

Niklas:

Many researchers – with a notable example being Ben Zeller, Assistant Professor of Religion at Lake Forest College and author of Heaven’s Gate: America’s UFO Religion – have suggested that the lukewarm response to the Group’s proselytizing efforts accelerated these leanings.

14. Mark:

– That might have played a part in the timing, but it was going to happen regardless. Again, you must enter the Next Level in a Next Level body. The only question was: would it be done before entering the craft or in the privacy thereof? This time, the instructions were to discard the physical body before boarding – making of it a demonstration to the world. Had this occurred afterwards, it would’ve gone by unnoticed. Would you be writing about them today if option two had been exercised?

14. Sawyer:

For Mark to say, “Again, you must enter the Next Level in a Next Level body. The only question was: would it be done before entering the craft or in the privacy thereof?”

Did the 39 have a Next Level body when they boarded the Spacecraft? The only way I know how to think about that relative to things TI and DO said about it, was that it was the Soul body that was growing in each human vehicle. But DO said in DO’s Final Exit, I think it was, that some of those 38 students might have to return to the human kingdom to finish their Overcoming Process. So we don’t know if those individuals would receive a Next Level grown body or not after they laid down their human vehicles. We do know from Jwnody’s document, Away Team From Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure, found in the Heaven’s Gate Book and on the website (See segment below) that there could be different strata of Next Level bodies.

Plus we also know from that same document plus from other documents/video’s left behind that there were some Souls who weren’t ready to exit with DO and Crew when they did, but who also did recognize DO as their Older Member but had weaknesses and that they also would be “saved” by the Next Level whenever it was that they exited in whatever way they exited if they qualified to be saved that was described in the same document as involving believing TI and DO are from the kingdom that created the earth and all it’s inhabitants and that they need to be willing to “Stand in Defense” of TI and DO and maintain that Stand and accept the consequences of maintaining that stand until their departure.

Here is the clearest depiction I’ve found so far of what DO and Crew understood about who, with what kind of human vehicle, changed over to some degree of growth, would be acceptable to enter a Next Level spacecraft:

Segment from Away Team From Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure By Jwnody:

“The appropriate final step for those about to complete their metamorphosis is the shedding of the “shell” – the shedding of that portion of the old creature which is now close to its end. Whatever amount of new creature that is present, if it is acceptable and still working in a forward motion, will be taken into the Next Level. Theoretically, some of us will still be too “young” (undeveloped) and will require further training before we can qualify to receive an issue of a Next Level “uniform” – biological container (body). It’s possible, however, that there are several strata of Next Level uniforms that will be issued depending on the degree of development of the mind at the completion of this task. Young minds may be issued less advanced vehicles. The all-important issue is, at what point – at what age or maturity of mind – does a soul qualify for a Next Level vehicle that would be serviceable in that new Kingdom.”

The Next Level is in charge of who is ready to enter a Next Level spacecraft with or without their human vehicle and when that might happen. The best we could do is to put all the preparation given to us by TI and DO into motion. To do that preparation requires having a human vehicle so I think taking advantage of having a vehicle to learn needed lessons through is to our advantage. To think anyone has done enough of that preparation is ludicrous as even though we may have learned some of the lessons, dealing with our vehicles desires and the way the lower forces work against us provides increased opportunities to build further strength of Mind.

re: the responses to the meetings in 1994 and whether that had something to do with the timing of their exit:

The responses to the meetings held around the US were quite good in the western U.S. where most of the Souls that were waiting for DO to come public again, having formed relationships with human vehicles. The group nearly doubled their numbers though some dropped away very soon after joining, which was anticipated would happen when some found out it was a serious program and that DO and Crew at the time were fully prepared to exit their vehicles, even by their own hand.

What many don’t understand is that TI and DO were not human beings. They were Next Level Souls using human vehicles. Originally, They didn’t think they were to gather followers but when they happened accepted that was their task. In 1994 DO was taking things one step at a time having learned that having a Class with some at a distance wouldn’t work, because we had started a mail correspondence with a number of people who responded to the Beyond Human Series and the USA Today Ad and the same article posted in many New Age periodicals.

I recall he talked about feeling there could be new students and also considered that there could be many but He and TI were never eager to deal with large numbers. However from being present then, I do believe I recall that DO did wonder if being bolder about who it is we all were in history could trigger hatred against us and could accelerate our exit because of. Meetings held in the eastern half of the US mostly had very low turnouts so the handwriting was on the wall to cease holding meetings come September.

However when one listens to audio tapes from 1996 and 1997 DO was still talking about having projects that shared the information with the public even as a theatrical musical big production that included singing, music and a light show and that he was considering wearing a costume of an EBE headgear and even having his ears that were quite large surgically reduced to fit under the headgear and traveling town to town as a troop and/or having a castration contest in Las Vegas and/or forming a monastery people could come visit and stay for 2-3 days and using Ells Angels as Security for public events, and/or forming a monastery in India because India seemed more accepting of various religious groups as opposed to the U.S. where Christians could be even violently against them. At one point he was ready to exit his vehicle and expressed to his students that they should not feel obligated to exit with him in the way he was choosing, that they wouldn’t be failing to not exit with him in that way. These ideas were contemplated over weeks time, to be found talked about in a number of audio tapes from 1996-1997.

DO couldn’t imagine staying until his and each of the student’s vehicles individually dropped dead from old age, and/or diseases. He wanted to see He and TI and Crews legacy continued after they left because he knew their information was germinating throughout the human kingdom as they had been depositing thoughts for some 24 years.

re: whether the so called low turnout at the 1994 meetings had something to do with the exit date:

I tend to agree with Mark that sure it was a factor that showed DO a few things. Those who were waiting for their Older Member to show up public again did respond because the Next Level helped them be in the right place at the right time. Plus DO had gone public being about as bold as he could be revealing that He was the return of the same Soul who was in Jesus, as promised, which many Christians say they were waiting for. Plus it showed DO that the Luciferian Space Alien Fallen Angel Souls, the Lower Forces strategy was such that regardless of how bold DO was, they would mostly have humans ignore them, thus wouldn’t be taking any actions against them that could even accelerate their exit of their vehicles nor try to put DO in jail on some trumped up charges. DO talked about this in some audio tapes from 1996-7. So the low turnout was part of many signs that they had nothing left to do but prepare to exit, though over those last 2 1/2 years DO still considered often whether there was still more to do to bring their information to the public eye again. It was just about how and when and where.

DO’s choice to leave when he did was because of constant wanting to do whatever he felt TI was giving to him in response to his asking TI. That was the process from 1973 one step at a time.

re: Mark writing, “Had this occurred afterwards, it would’ve gone by unnoticed. Would you be writing about them today if option two had been exercised?”

It’s always smarter when we hear ourselves saying something as a statement of fact like; “it would’ve gone by unnoticed” and asking the question, “Would you be writing about them today if option two had been exercised?” to restrain such statements because the facts are we can’t ever truly second guess the Next Level Above Human Older Members. Who knows what other strategies the Next Level could have employed to make a big event that would have people taking notice and writing about them for decades later. TI and DO even talked about another scenario in audio tape 149 that involved lots of media literally filming TI, DO and Crew walking up a ramp onto a Next Level spacecraft.

Niklas:

Shortly after the evacuation conference – but for unrelated reasons – another long-time member who’d joined at the Waldport meeting left the Group. He was sent to live with Mrcody and Srfody in Phoenix, presumably to help him re-adapt to life in modern society.

15. Mark:

– We did serve to transition Swyody to the world, yes. The Group called us every day during late September and October to see how we were doing. They were worried he was going to go off the deep end. He did. Swyody boomeranged into drugs, music, sex, and a general tendency to do nothing.

His motivation was nearly at zero as he bounced like a pinball from one human experience to the other. We finally told them that we had to push Swyody out to an apartment we’d found for him, to allow us to continue with our lives.

He became a bum and ended up with some musicians in Mesa, which somewhat surprised the Group. It was no coincidence that, thirty months later, he did not receive any of the Class’ final instructions about what to do following their departure. They had his phone number and address but sent him nothing. He also birthed a child – which we did not, so we’d be ready for Next Level instructions. And the Class knew it.

He has since taken on roles of dissemination the Group did not give him. These tasks are self-generated and not from the Next Level. In fact, his information and views are quite the opposite.

He appears in every interview because we turn them down. We take care of all the legal issues, and the production companies run to him in need of talking heads. Such has been the cycle for many years now.

15. Sawyer (Swyody):

So often Mark says things in a way, that to me sounds like an exaggeration that puts a greater light on himself. I mean, I’m glad he and Sarah were willing to help me then, as DO arranged with them on my behalf, but what actually happened was hardly a “transition to the world”. For some reason I didn’t need a transition to the world. Here’s what happened from my view:

Mark picked me up at Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix and took me to He and Sarah’s house and gave me a guest room to sleep in. The only thing I remember Sarah saying to me when I arrived was, “none of that sex stuff”, just like that. I was not aware of anything I thought, said or did that ever stimulated her saying this.

Even though I didn’t remember this from being in the Class when DO said it and recorded it on an audio we still have, I learned that in fact, DO said, (paraphrased) that 1/2 the male students while she was still in the classroom were having to fight off thoughts of sensuality with her. DO said this in audio tape 426 made on November 14, 1989. He said about Srfody’s Influence that “It was an influence that had half the males in the Class fighting it off”.

Never mind that she was involved with Alxody while in the Classroom before TI left, if I recall to where they went into a closet and were feeling each other up. I believe Alxody exposed what happened which is how I learned of it. I had had a number of experiences in the Classroom with what seemed like she was coming on to me that I gave no response to. Srrody told me that she had come on to him in some way. I don’t believe for a minute she wanted to have sex with me. I think she was using sexuality to lure whoever might give into it so she could get out of the class. But DO said Srfody’s “Influence” had attempted to lure me in particular away from joining the Class and was now working on Mark.

So they lent me a car to drive to look for a job which I found in a very short time working as a dinner cook for Marriott Resort in Scottsdale, AZ. DO had given me $600.00 in cash. I bought my own food and was rarely at their house. I didn’t cook there and don’t recall putting anything in the refrigerator I ate in my room if not when I was out and about. I bought a bicycle and began to ride from my job some 5 miles to work and back to their house at first. I then found an apartment in Mesa and rode my bicycle to work and back (10 miles) everyday. After another week or so, Mark and Sarah got in touch and suggested my checking out a furnished apartment closer to where I worked, with someone If I recall they knew that wanted to rent out a room in their apartment. So I guess they did vouch for me, which was nice, as I didn’t have any references besides them and don’t recall needing any or anything like that. I took the room and remained there for some months until I moved to NY.

Since Mark has said all these things about me, I’ll have to address every one.

a. “The Group called us every day during late September and October to see how we were doing.”

I never knew of these phone calls but given the way Mark has evidenced vast exaggerations, I doubt they called him “every day” for some 40 days?

b. “They were worried he was going to go off the deep end.”

Why is Mark being so vague? What does “deep end” look like? What did they say that gave DO that impression. I want details.

c. Mark says, “He did” (go off the deep end). He goes on to say about me, “Swyody boomeranged into drugs, music, sex, and a general tendency to do nothing.”

I did no drugs whatsoever. Even if I did want to smoke pot, I didn’t know anyone who had it and I just didn’t have that desire then. When I moved to NY it was my brother who re-introduced me to smoking pot and that’s as far as I ever got into “drug” usage after having joined the Class in 1975. As a kid in my late teens I was an avid pot smoker and did a bunch of acid trips.

Mark shows so much evidence of jumping to all sorts of conclusions and making all sorts of assumptions and exaggerations and outright lying.

At that time I did buy a harmonica while I was driving back and forth to my job using Mark and Sarah’s car before I bought a bicycle. But I never played it for them or for anyone or with anyone. When I was in that apartment I bought a set of Conga drums and began to play them. I was subletting from this youngish woman but I had nothing to do with her and didn’t know if she was a musician. I feel I played those drums a little in that apartment and she never said anything about it. I can’t actually remember how I would have got the drums into that apartment. I didn’t have a car and they were not light weight. And then I moved out to the other apartment and could only play them when the owner wasn’t there. I rented a flute. I didn’t listen to music at all.

I certainly didn’t have sex with anyone and didn’t even want to have sex with anyone. In fact it was several years later that I had sex so again where in the world is he getting this stuff. He’s lying.

I think what’s happening here is he is seeking to get back at me for calling him out on his many lies and misinformation generation that he has committed for over 20 years that I know about and can prove with many articles that I critiqued on my blog sawyerhg.wordpress.com. His memory is growing bad it seems and he appears to be losing recognition of what TI and DO taught which is apparent in this interview. He seems to be blaming DO and Class members for his situation while feeling like he has been vindicated because He and Sarah were given a few simple tasks. I’m not saying they weren’t difficult tasks as even keeping the website up and running and fielding lots of negativity for years is no easy task but I know that tasks as I have been dealing with the same for many years and it’s doable and especially if we trust TI and DO will help us as we go and ask of them.

d. His motivation was nearly at zero as he bounced like a pinball from one human experience to the other.

I wasn’t even talking to them about anything. I didn’t eat with them. I didn’t ask them questions. I knew nothing about what they say here they were telling DO. Look at the way Mark is expressing himself as if he knows anything about anything that I was doing. He just wants to put me down with his silly analogies.

Motivation? I was motivated to continue my life outside the classroom. Did I have a plan, No, I did not. I found the job, I bought a bicycle to ride to work. I bought instruments to restart my musical talents.

e. “We finally told them that we had to push Swyody out to an apartment we’d found for him, to allow us to continue with our lives.”

I found the Mesa apartment by myself. I couldn’t stand being with them in their house. They lied to DO if they told DO that they had to push me out to an apartment. I wanted to leave so I did. It’s true they helped me find a better living space closer to where I worked, which I was thankful for.

How is it that I interfered with their lives? Perhaps using their car, but that’s why I bought a bicycle. Perhaps they did say that they needed the car. I could understand that but I wasn’t just sitting around in their house. I was looking for work and I found work and then also secured additional work from my old employer when I lived in Scottsdale, AZ working for Murray Whipps, who had the software company Phoenix Phive Software who I programmed for. He hired me to work from home, which went into affect when I moved to NY.

f. “He became a bum and ended up with some musicians in Mesa, which somewhat surprised the Group.”

I never met anyone. I had no friends in Mesa or AZ for the months I was there. How was I a bum when I was working a full time job. It’s on my social security information when I worked for the Marriott resort hotel. They never gave me any money that I recall. On may days off I would ride my bicycle many miles to a grocery store, buy food and put the bags in a basket on the rear of the bike and hold some bags on the handlebars of the bike. They are losing their lawsuit against me and since I talk about them in a derogatory way because of their lies and deceit over 25 years on my live-stream I suspect Mark couldn’t not have an interview where he could vent against me. Since he has nothing truthful and substantial to say, he is exaggerating and outright lying.

I believe Mark and Sarah also resent me and Cathy and Carlan for not bowing to them and challenging the deceitful things they say over and over to people.

g. “It was no coincidence that, thirty months later, he did not receive any of the Class’ final instructions about what to do following their departure. They had his phone number and address but sent him nothing.”

I didn’t know they had my address and phone number and wouldn’t have minded if they had. I occasionally spoke with Rkkody on the phone then and Rkkody may have sent me some things then. I know Rkkody was in touch with DO even in 1994-1997 though was out of the Classroom again. Rkkody at one point asked me on DO’s behalf, “what up with you” to which I said, “nothing has changed for me”. I would say that’s why they didn’t send me a packet. I didn’t express to them that I wanted service. I’m embarrassed by that but that’s what was happening.

Mark seems to use it as a way of putting me down, when he and Sarah did receive an instruction packet but then ignored most of DO’s wishes in it and now are preventing people from hearing the audio tapes that is also against TI and DO’s wishes that are well documented in the audio tapes and their many public actions they took after TI left that were timely with that stage in the Classroom and for those who were yet to awaken to embrace TI and DO’s Mind.

h. “He also birthed a child – which we did not, so we’d be ready for Next Level instructions.”

This is quite the telling statement. He is comparing what I did with what they didn’t do. I am not in competition with them but they appear to be in competition with me – otherwise why even bring up this comparison? Sure having a child does have some restrictions on where to go and when. But having a business does the same thing if one can’t leave that business without the business suffering.

I still found ways to serve TI and DO and did all the time. They don’t know about all that because I don’t answer to them and never trusted them.

And talking about being of service. If one listens to audio tape #333 you will hear how DO wanted some Students to minister to Mrcody and Srfody to help them get out of turning against their Older Members (who DO was one of). Also you will hear how DO offered them tasks and they refused them and they didn’t even have children to blame such refusal on. They didn’t want their lives interfered with, DO indicated.

i. “He has since taken on roles of dissemination the Group did not give him.”

j. “These tasks are self-generated and not from the Next Level.”

I guess Mark and Sarah missed how part of DO’s total effort in the years after DO left was spend on dissemination of the truth they bore, their information, the Mind He and TI drew into their vehicles to give to their student body and to the world.

Did Mark ever read the Heaven’s Gate Book, I wonder. After all, it says in many ways that “getting their information out” was literally a task for all Souls who have returned. (see the text below). I am one of those Souls. Cathy is one of those Souls. Every new believer is one of those Souls. Mark and Sarah want to pretend only they are commissioned to disseminate TI and DO’s information and on top of that they aren’t even doing that task except by hiding themselves behind the website as if that’s enough to do. There is no enough to do. They literally said to Cathy and I in person, asking us, “isn’t what we are doing enough?” They seem to see TI and DO’s teachings the way a religionist new ager might see them as a body of information that is for study purposes only. No application is needed yet without application of what They described in part or in full according to each person’s desire, no service is being provided to them and without service only an illusion of working on their behalf, though of course I am not anyone’s judge or my own but what I can judge to some degree is what came from TI and DO’s Mind though their writings and audio and video tapes. The Lower Forces hate to hear or see TI and DO’s teachings provided anyone as they want to steal Souls to their ranks.

Segment from Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure, written by Jwnody – trusted elder student of TI and DO, in the Heaven’s Gate Book and shown on Heavengate.com:

“There is a tiny remnant left of a window for catching the eye of the “caretakers of this world.” In order to get saved for further planting, the overriding requirement is to recognize that this is true (these are the facts). You must believe that we represent the Kingdom that created this planet and all of its inhabitants. And you must be willing to take a stand in defense of that belief, and sustain that stand until the end – your departure – regardless of the consequences.”

“You must be willing to take a Stand in defense of that belief.”

What does taking a Stand look like, one may ask. Can anyone defend someone if they don’t know what they stood for and what they said and did? I think not. So this compels new believers and old believers to learn all they can about what TI and DO and Crew taught and to then be equip to share that with others when/if the time arises that they want to Stand in Defense as this states.

And one must “sustain that stand until the end – your departure – regardless of the consequences

Also from same document:

“The only question that remains unanswered is how long the Next Level will permit the alien forces to present their agenda – how long is long enough for all souls to pledge their allegiance for or against – to one side or the other. Every soul must be put to the final test. And as we warned you at the outset, consider your options thoroughly. Hasty judgments are ill-advised.”

If all souls must be put to the final test what does that final test look like? Souls using human vehicles must choose who to pledge their allegiance to, for or against TI and DO. What does allegiance look like – again would that be Standing in Defense of TI and DO?

In another spot in the same document.

“Every soul, that was a part of a deposit, at any time during this civilization, is back to make their choices once again. Some of these may be younger, perhaps second- or first-trimester, souls. Although they may not even have a chance to get to know us before our departure, we do recognize them, because they “recognize the enemy.” They see through the lies and no longer want to be a part of this world. And so it is our task to give them a chance to leave this place by getting this information out. Often the symptoms of a deposit from our Domain can be seen in an individual’s lack of motivation or rebellion against the world, or “system,” and what it has to offer. In their futility, many of these individuals turn to the corrupt devices that are most anesthetizing. You will not find them with the so-called mainstream righteous, but more likely with your social dropouts or even as addicts or criminals – as your so- called “sinners.” Another manifestation of worldly dissatisfaction can be seen in the current movement of radical separatists – patriot/militia types – who clearly recognize the corrupt condition of today’s governments (particularly the dominant governments of the Western world). It is for those that we have come again – to give them a way out of this corrupt human kingdom, which was never designed to work or be satisfactory unto itself.”

This sentence to me clearly aligns with the last two listed here:

“And so it is our task to give them a chance to leave this place by getting this information out.”

“Our” is referring to DO and Crew of which Jwnody was/is a part.
“them” are the Souls who have returned, some being first or second trimester souls which means some may be third trimester souls like Jwnody was.

“them” are being given the chance by DO and Crew (our) “to leave this place by getting this information out”. Does this mean that the process of getting this information out could be what causes some to leave this place, aka exiting their vehicle because of?

Doesn’t that match, being “willing to Stand in Defense of that belief (of TI and DO and Crew being from the Kingdom that created the earth and all it’s inhabitants)?

And one must “sustain that stand until the end – your departure – regardless of the consequences

---

So, in summary, this time is a test time for all souls. In a test there are requirements to get a passing grade (to be saved from recycling):

• Get the information out
• Believe TI and DO are Reps from Creators Kingdom
• Be willing to Stand in Defense of that belief
• Maintain that stand until the end – your departure regardless of the consequences

Who is this written for:

Every Soul who is back whether first, second or third trimester Souls

So if Every Soul is to get the information out and this instruction was given by DO via Jwnody on his behalf, anyone who performs getting the information out would be working for DO and it would not be “self-generated” as Mark claimed I was doing. Such tasks were generated by DO and Crew here.

Am I a first, second or third trimester Soul?

DO said I was and it can be seen in the Beyond Human series session One.

So Mark is dead wrong to say, “He has since taken on roles of dissemination the Group did not give him. These tasks are self-generated and not from the Next Level”

k. “In fact, his information and views are quite the opposite.”

Isn’t it telling that one can see here that exactly what Mark is claiming about me are the very things he is doing. He’s the one who keeps on expressing views that are the opposite of what TI and DO taught. Remember in the section #13 Mark said, “From the beginning, Ti and Do knew we would not be entering the Next Level in our human bodies” and I then showed how TI and DO actually said the opposite by showing proof in Statement One, UFO Missionaries Extraordinary (and I could show that proof in a number of places).

l. “He appears in every interview because we turn them down.”

If so, then why did they turn them down? Could it be they were doing documentaries that they wanted someone who was real, someone with a face and a voice rather than just some email chats that say next to nothing most of the time because they don’t want to take the time to really explain how TI and DO taught because they remembered so little because they went against DO after they left and didn’t keep up with listening to tapes and reading their actual words but instead cultivated their own New Age interpretation so that those who knew them personally would look up to them in some way as Spiritual leaders.

I suspect they turned down broadcasters because they didn’t want people to know what they looked like and sound like. I suspect it was because they had too much to lose in the businesses they had if they were seen on television speaking favorably about what most of the media portray as a Suicide Cult. It is scary but that’s the price one pays to Stand in Defense of TI and DO being from the Creators Kingdom who created the earth and all it’s inhabitants.

m. We take care of all the legal issues, and the production companies run to him in need of talking heads. Such has been the cycle for many years now.

Yes, they took care of some legal issues but they have created for themselves having many legal issues. For instance, though DO didn’t give them any instructions to copyright anything but a common law copyright on the Heaven’s Gate Book, they filed copyrights that are in question as to their legitimacy because according to Judge Lisa Guy Schall they showed her no documents that brings evidence the group was transferring anything to them. What the judge states in her decision in 1999 was that they were only to be distributors of the Intellectual property. We even have Sarah stating this on record. That’s a far cry from being the only distributors and copyrighting some of the audio tapes that weren’t even in storage when San Diego ruled them to go to the deceased estates. Upon Mark and Sarah’s appeal the judge didn’t want to hold up the ruling to sell in auction the personal possessions of the group, she then settled and sold Mark and Sarah the Intellectual property in storage that included the audio tapes and charged them $2000.00 and required them to give them several of the groups cars that DO had instructed be given to some of the 8 former dropouts who wanted to serve then and to one new believer.

Niklas:

In 1995, the Group purchased forty acres of land in Manzano, New Mexico. It had previously served as a summer camp, as evidenced by the mess hall still standing on the property. Inspired by the housing model laid out in Earthship: How to Build Your Own – a book by American architect and ecologist Michael Reynolds – they constructed a veritable fortress from recycled tyres and cement. The structure even boasted a guard tower and a stash of firearms.

16. Mark:

– We were not aware of the Earthship or the related activities. It seems they put in a lot of work there. But we did help them with many requests while they were in New Mexico, such as funneling cash donations.

16. Sawyer:

Let’s see some examples of where the donations came from and how much.

Niklas:

Were any of the donors unaffiliated with the Group?

17. Mark:

– No, we are not aware of any donations from outsiders. During the 1990s, a few former members would supply cash to aid them in their mission. But beyond Ollody and Lggody in the late 70s, there were never any substantial donors.

17. Sawyer:

So there were no donors from outsiders and there were no “substantial donors” from within the group besides Ollody and Lggody. Who is left to donate? Maybe I’m missing something but he might be losing his mind here.

Niklas:

Once the weather turned cold, maintaining the Earthship to a satisfactory degree became too much work. So, after ten months in Manzano, the Group relocated to Phoenix. Soon after arriving, they set up a foundation called TELAH Services – TELAH being an acronym for The Evolutionary Level Above Human – meant to handle mail requests for books and tapes.

18. Mark:

– We kept in touch through 1995 until they, ‘by chance’, entered our new postal store in Phoenix to establish a mail-order relationship. Using our company office as their address – the one still on the website to this day – Lggody and Mllody set up TELAH Services as a legal entity with a bank account. It was all tied into their online activities and other tasks. They turned the corporation over to us in May 1996; after that, we were asked to assist them with many things. We helped where we could, but safety for both parties was always in play.

18. Sawyer:

Mark said, “They turned the corporation over to us in May 1996.”

If that is true then why didn’t DO and Crew give Mark and Sarah the correct paperwork to support their doing something with Their corporation? And if Mark and Sarah couldn’t do what they hoped to do by having the corporation transferred to them why didn’t that get resolved before the Group left their human vehicles by March of 1997.

Niklas says in this article something about the complication they encountered in point 35:

“To complicate matters further, TELAH Services – the business set up by the Group and transferred to Srfody and Mrcody – was still registered to Logan Lahson, known in the Class as Lggody. The state of Arizona would not allow for this to be changed; instead, the entity itself had to be renamed.”

Is it right to assume Niklas got that information from Mark and Sarah? I think so as until recently only Mark and Sarah would know this since it was written about in Judge Lisa Guy Schall’s decision that Logan Lahson owned Telah Services.

In case Mark denies what Niklas reported here as Telah Services having been registered to Logan Lahson, aka Lggody in the Classroom and legally John Michael Craig, here is the verbiage to the legal document from the:

SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO STATEMENT OF DECISION of what to do with the possessions of the Heaven’s Gate group in the name of JOHN MICHAEL CRAIG, also known as LOGAN M. LAWSON, aka LOGAN LAHSON, Deceased in Case No. PNO22228 that was presided over on January 11, 1999 in Department A of the above-entitled court, the Honorable Lisa Guy-Schall, Judge, presiding shows the matter was tried without a jury and concluded on January 13, 1999.

This court case documents the possessions of the Group in the Mansion and in the Storage units. The Public Administrator marshaled a Certificate of Trade Name Registration for Higher
Source Contract Enterprises (Trial Exhibit Number 211), and an application for Registration
for Trade Name for Telah Services (Trial Exhibit Number 212), which are in the name of
decedent Logan Lahson, aka John Craig.

So some of my questions about this involve why Mark and Sarah King flew to Washington D.C. to meet with Bureaucrats to rename Telah Services as Telah Foundation. Wouldn’t the Group have saw to that happening IF DO and Crew wanted Mark and Sarah to make that change? Yet if Mark and Sarah hadn’t done that, I doubt they would have been able to make a case for registering copyrights and trademarks the Group gave no indication they wanted done.

The only form of that DO and Crew expressed in the Letter to Mark and Sarah was stating that the wanted Oscody to register Their Book with the Library of Congress.

But apparently Mark and Sarah were not happy with that instruction alone and chose to copyright 486 of the 1061 audio tapes found in Storage, The Beyond Human series (the Group had documented that they copyrighted as shown on the original tape jackets, to Total Overcomers Anonymous, aka TOA, the lithographic image referred to as the CBE art work – Celestial Being Entity, and trademarks for the Away Team Patch, the use of the phrase, Heaven’s Gate and the use of what is known as the Heaven’s Gate logo that pictures a giant keyhole with the words Heaven’s on top and Gate inside the keyhole.

They have no proof that they received instructions from DO and Crew to copyright and trademark anything yet they have lied to my face and Cathy’s face and to Carlan saying they had all of the Groups Intellectual Property copyrighted.

I haven’t figured out whether they have done something shady with these copyrights yet but it appears they did, perhaps unknowingly but they are using those copyrights to try to stop me, Cathy and Carlan and even Jhnody from disseminating TI and DO’s audios and other information they left behind for all to have.

There is a great deal to show in all this but I’ll reserve it for another time but I just wanted to show a little of the causes for great questions of what Mark and Sarah have done and continue to do and think that it’s right by TI and DO to sue former Classmates and new believers for sharing TI and DO’s information. It’s bizarre but they don’t see it. They don’t think they could be wrong in the way they say they think about doing the dissemination task for DO.

Niklas:

Also in May 1996, for the first time in 4,200 years, the comet that would eventually become known as Hale-Bopp grew visible to the naked eye. It had been completely unknown to the scientific community until ten months earlier when two amateur astronomers, Alan Hale and Thomas Bopp, discovered a gigantic heavenly body with a dust envelope the size of our sun approaching the orbit of Jupiter. In contemporary popular culture, Hale-Bopp seems to be the primary association most people have with Heaven’s Gate. However, it is a common misconception that they believed a spacecraft to be trailing the comet; rather, it was interpreted as the celestial omen they’d been waiting for. Hale-Bopp caught the entire world’s imagination and inflamed interest among everyone from religious personalities to conspiracy theorists. One outlet that picked up a lot of the extravagant ideas in circulation, such as the one about a UFO hiding behind the comet, was Art Bell’s classic radio show Coast to Coast, which the Group is said to have listened to regularly.

19. Mark:

– We don’t like UFO shows – they are boring. Srfody and I paid no attention to it and heard about this only after they departed. And no, there was no craft following the comet. Hale-Bopp was never important to us; it was just a marker. As was Easter.

19. Sawyer:

Boring, Mark says. I guess he doesn’t care about what DO cared about and said about UFO’s, Space Aliens being the same Souls known in the records as Lucifer and his associates who went against their Next Level Older Members and now try to turn humans eyes away from the reality that TI and DO were actually The Father and “Jesus” who promised to return to complete the task.

Why not take this interview as an opportunity to talk about how TI and DO talked about Comet Khoutek in 1973 as a marker of He and TI’s 9+ months of awakening and how the lower forces sought to stop them from performing their task.

I could understand being asleep when it actually happened, because I was not that interested in it then but if they sought to be in service to TI and DO by participating in the Dissemination Project DO and Crew spoke about they and at least the other 6 former students, they hoped would perform on their behalf after their exit, then they would have to learn everything they missed in the time they were choosing to remain outside the Class. If they did begin to study the materials they left behind in the Heaven’s Gate Book, they would have to see that in the time after they were sent out of the Classroom, DO started a very in depth investigation into the UFO phenomena that included Space Races (aliens). They would have read the USA Today Info/Ad that spoke about how they seemed to believe that Their Students had come to earth in spacecrafts and intentionally crashed some of them, laying down the existing dense physical bodies they had before then so they could take over human vehicles that they with the Next Level’s help picked and prepped, to be vehicles they would try to take over and make their servants to complete their remaining overcoming of humanness to qualify to become Young Members of the Next Level Above Human, the graduation Jesus laid out some of the requirements for, that he called being “born of Spirit/Mind” after they were “born again of water” (flesh).

And if they did take an interest in the Hale Bopp Comet, they would learn that DO not only considered it the Marker they had been waiting for but how He considered it the Marker He and TI had been anticipating coming all along that included TI’s spacecraft coming to literally pick them up, something neither they or I qualified for.

They would come to see how different Hale Bopp was from any other comets. And if they weren’t interested in it and UFO’s then how did they expect to provide service by explaining TI and DO’s teachings and thinking about such things.

Regarding UFO’s, a boring subject? Again, isn’t there a great value to learning at least what DO said about the subject over the years they missed. For instance in the end of that document DO wrote entitled, “’88 Update – The UFO Two and Their Crew” there was a list of books and video’s DO found interesting about the subjects of UFO’s and Space Aliens. The list included several books and Video’s about UFO’s like “UFO Crash at Aztec”, “The Roswell Incident”, the documentary “UFO’s What’s Going On” and much more. There were the autopsy reports from Leonard Stringfield and much more.

No wonder why they seem to hate me and Cathy and Carlan. Though we are far from perfect we are attempting to bring eyes and ears to all the information DO and Crew left behind for us (all in the world) to consume. They don’t seem to want to do that except in the most minimal way of keeping the website up and eventually posting the Beyond Human Series on Vimeo after they had been posted on HeavensGateDatabase for close to two decades. And they still hardly send anyone any of the audio tapes yet they are filled with a vast amount of information that to even someone who has no belief in TI and DO would find fascinating. Why hasn’t the Heaven’s Gate Book been put on Amazon or other places on the internet. It’s like they don’t want to sell them. I think they are blinded by their own fears that people will kill themselves yet all they have to do is keep on reminding people of the posting on the website that is entitled, “Our Position Against Suicide” and what DO said about that action in DO’s Final Exit, that death isn’t a ticket to Heaven and what Stmody said about suicide being of no value for those who remained who had not had a relationship with an incarnate Representative and how we all need our human vehicles to use to learn the many lessons there are to learn in the human kingdom including conquering addictions and selfishness and dealing with certain failures and jealousies, etc.

Plus to say definitively that, “there was no craft following the comet” further shows they don’t know how wrong they can be and that they both need desperately to begin to accept the reasons why they were sent out of the Class and accept the embarrassment that comes with that and stop acting like they are these great leaders assigned by DO to be some type of overseers of the legacy of TI and DO (by hiding away 1061 audio tapes) acting exactly opposite what TI and DO and Crew clearly expressed many times in many ways in the past and even in the Letters they sent to them, Rkkody, Jhnody and no doubt others about what they hoped would happen after their exit Perform the Dissemination Project.

They show their ignorance and huge ego to tell me I’m not working for the Next Level. It’s just like this statement that there is “no craft following the comet”. How do they KNOW that. Are they so in tune with TI and DO’s Mind. If so how come DO didn’t say there was no companion object with Hale Bopp Comet? What DO said was that “it was irrelevant” whether there was or wasn’t a spacecraft with Hale Bopp Comet because he knew TI was coming to pick him and his students up with or without their physical bodies (which is part of why they packed a bag).

Actually when one examines all the documentation we can find on the existence of a companion object one could come upon, as I have, the photograph from a Japanese Observatory that shows evidence of a large object close to Hale Bopp Comet and how when Hale Bopp disappeared behind the Sun and came out the other side it then had three tails, which was before then unheard of. Comets normally have two tails. Plus in the gatherings that scientists did in the years after Hale Bopp came to perihelion they studied many pictures and determined that it had a “dual nucleus” and that these two nucleus’ were in orbit around a common center. In other words it appeared to be two objects. Perhaps the Companion merged with Hale Bopp and hence the third tail as in the Japanese photo the alleged companion had a black tail.

Niklas:

By October 1996, Heaven’s Gate – still using the Total Overcomers Anonymous moniker – had left Arizona for California. They took up residence in the exclusive San Diego community of Rancho Santa Fe, renting an enormous mansion for a whopping $7,000 per month. Earlier that same year, the Group had founded a web-design company called Higher Source; I’m assuming this is what allowed for the accommodation upgrade.

20. Mark:

– We think there has been a misunderstanding about the financial assistance provided by Higher Source. It was basically a wash. A lot of money was invested when the company started in April 1996 – computers, technology, etc. – and it only lasted until February 1997. There was some revenue from website contracts during those ten months, but the start-up costs were very high. In late March or April 1997, we tried to acquire some of the account receivables the Class asked us to retrieve but got none of it. The clients denied having had work done or even knowing anyone from the Group. Some out of embarrassment for being associated with a ‘cult’, whereas others just didn’t want to pay the bill. So, Higher Source did not bring in the kind of funds the rumors say. We have their financial ledgers, and it simply isn’t true.

Niklas:

How did Heaven’s Gate come to have so many skilled IT professionals?

21. Mark:

– It wasn’t the case of having skilled IT professionals: they were devoted Next Level members who could perform whatever tasks they were assigned. Many of those who worked in this field did not have computer backgrounds. Students learned, improved, and excelled. We could switch our skills to whatever discipline was needed to carry out the task at hand. Classmates could write and edit a book, then switch to handling a backhoe the day after, only to start developing construction skills when building the Earthship. The Group switched over to the internet and coding in 1996. Whatever was needed could be filled by members. Many individuals learned to code, and the best were picked for service. With a clear, focused, and disciplined mind, you can handle many things coming your way.

21. Sawyer:

Mllody was the first Class-member to get an OOC Task working with computers. She had a college degree in IT, trained to be a Cobol Programmer before she joined with TI and DO. Mllody quickly qualified to have jobs for Banks like MTech and Computer Companies like Hewelet Packard. She advanced to become a Programmer Analyst even a manager of those kinds of departments in big corporations.

Nrrody also might have had a degree before she joined as she became a manager of Technical Writing for Dell and for Texas Instruments and other large corporations.

It was in the 1980’s when TI and DO bought us an Apple IIe computer. They wanted others to learn office work using computers so we’d get better jobs in the world to support the needs of the Classroom and so that we wouldn’t have such unpredictable schedules we had with the restaurant jobs most of us had then. They wanted us to have 9am to 5pm Monday thru Friday jobs so we could count on having weekends off for more concentrated Class lesson time, meetings with TI and DO. Plus they paid better. I was given the option to get familiar with the Apple IIe and I was intrigued by scrolling the pages of computer code that made programs work so I studied the coding language Apple Basic.

I advanced in office jobs to gain contracting programming jobs in Texas. Srrody who also either had some skills or developed them from study like I did, also got good Assembly Language and C Programming jobs, while mine were using BASIC and 4GL’s like DBase, etc. At one point DO had Srrody and I form a company. We got a DBA for the name, Think Link and later another called, Word Wise. We secured a contract to develop software for a Houston Bank I think we got paid about 8,000.00 for.

Later 5 of us got jobs at Subscriber Computing, Inc. in California. I was a programmer there as was Srrody. Mllody was a programmer Analyst manager and Nrrody the manager of the Tech Writing documentation department. Stlody was a Networking Technician. We lived in San Diego area while working those jobs remotely all from one room in the Craft. Then when we moved to Arizona, Mllody and Nrrody kept their manager jobs by doing so with conference calls and occasionally flying back to California to attend mandatory meetings.

I could be wrong but believe I held down programming jobs even before TI left her vehicle in 1985 but if those were just office jobs then I certainly was programming by the time Mark and Sarah were sent out of the Class in 1987 but perhaps Mark just didn’t know about that happening to say the programming started in 1996.

Niklas:

In October 1996, the Group released two videos: Last Chance to Evacuate Earth Before it’s Recycled and Planet About to be Recycled – Your Only Chance to Survive – Leave with Us. This concept of an impending Recycling was a core tenet in the Heaven’s Gate worldview. They believed the Next Level to regularly carry out full planetary resets of the environment, as well as of any lifeforms sustained by it. This is typically implemented through catastrophic natural events, such as whatever ended the era of dinosaurs. The only chance for consciousness to survive would be to transcend to the Next Level. From their perspective, actual suicide would be staying behind to face the Recycling as an ordinary human. But simply offing oneself without having first qualified for and then organized a Next Level collection is pointless, seeing as how it would merely trigger another cycle of reincarnation.

22. Mark:

– Srfody and I found the information on the tapes consistent with what we’d been taught. As you know, they were styled differently to appeal either to a religious or a sci-fi-oriented audience, respectively. For security reasons, the Group often had us handling the shipping. We sent them out to the appropriate locations: many legal, governmental, and religious entities in the United States and the rest of the world received copies. We also dealt with the returns, of which there were many. Lots of ‘Return to Sender’, ‘We don’t want your tapes’, and similar mean-spirited rejections. The religious organizations were especially rough. Every TV evangelist received a tape, and their responses were mixed. It is always amazing to see what kind of behavior such people can justify as compatible with their teachings.

22. Sawyer:

Because of the many responses from Mark in this interview, many of which the reader will come to read, to where Mark seems to have a view of DO as a leader who believed rumors about Mark and Sarah put forth by certain classmembers and felt DO believed he made a mistake to send Mark and Sarah out of the Class, this first statement seems to reflect that same attitude. He says, “Srfody and I found the information on the tapes consistent with what we’d been taught.” Was there ever a possibility that what DO said in those video tapes of DO speaking might not be consistent with what He taught? I could be wrong but from a bunch of things Mark and Sarah have said to me personally and have done, I suspect they were comparing things DO said in those tapes with things TI (and DO?) said when TI was still in her human vehicle. This is not a fabricated idea as I’ve said before.

A number of former students, among them, Rthody (Michael in docs), Andody (Frank in docs), Pmmody (Lee Ann in docs), Dncody, (Dick in docs), Cddody (Fred in docs), to varied degrees, along with academics like Professor Robert Balch (who infiltrated the group in 1975 to study them) and lately used more in docs, Professor Ben Zellar and others, all at one time have said to me privately and/or publicly, if I recall correctly, that after TI left her vehicle in 1985, DO changed the direction TI would have had the Class go, even not leading to “suicide” – laying down – leaving their human vehicles by their own hands.

Considering how Mark and/or Sarah were quoted to have said publicly after the Groups exit, in 1997, I think on the Art Bell show, that “the gate is closed” after DO had said in a press release that there was (paraphrased), a “brief window of time to exit with them” and because Mark and Sarah have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they don’t value DO’s instruction in the Letter DO sent to them that instructed them to (paraphrased)… “divide the items of value among those inclined to disseminate our information,” which should have included giving audio tapes to Crlody (Carlan) and myself (Swyody) (as well as Jhnody and others), especially considering we were fully engaged with sending people the 200+ audio tapes Rkkody had retrieved from Storage. The reason Mark told me he would not give me any audio tapes was because I would put them on the internet for anyone to have and that they were meant to be only used privately. Also in this interview Mark said something about their belief that TI would have exited sooner than DO did as if to say DO was off track in that way as well.

What Mark didn’t address from what Niklas stated was that DO never said there would be no “consciousness to survive” the recycling and that only those who transcended their humanness would survive but DO said that there were three groups of people who could survive the spading under of the garden and the last group didn’t have to know anything about TI and DO but that more is required of those who do know about TI and DO.

DO also didn’t say that staying behind to face the recycling would be suicide. It wasn’t a fact but a warning that the longer we are hear the more the lower forces can work on us to find reasons to stay but that while we are hear we can serve which is our choice. I don’t know what it means to say one must organize a “Next Level Collection.”

Also, I find the way Mark and Sarah and in this case Niklas talk about reincarnation seems to me to not jive with what DO said about reincarnation. Many humans think reincarnation is automatic after death. But I believe it can be shown that TI and DO taught that reincarnation is a choice when it’s referring to souls – a choice the Next Level helps Souls they want to return to choose the body they are going to work with when it’s time to do so when Older Members are coming incarnate. Spirits don’t really reincarnate because they are really just like leaches though one can choose not to be.

Niklas:

Mrcody believes these videos, along with the written material produced during the Group’s final years, primarily targeted the hundreds of former members across the country. Despite dropping out, often due to an inability to master their human urges, many remained Next Level devotees. Should Mrcody be right about this, it would explain one conundrum I’ve been grappling with regarding their last-minute recruitment run. My layman’s interpretation is that an individual must undergo an extensive Classroom setup – taught by Next Level tutors – to be eligible for graduation. And, as I’m sure Mrcody could attest to, this is unlikely to be attained in a mere few months.

23. Mark:

– Yes, it would be nearly impossible for the uninitiated to fully understand the ways of the Next Level within such a limited time frame. The Group indicated to us clearly that they were always going after former members. They wanted them to be part of the upcoming departure. There were never any indications of when this might occur, but they had to cast nets and former students were the easiest to catch. The only new individuals to bite were Lkkody and Dvvody, in September 1996. The Group were going to put them in our halfway house in Phoenix but decided to just accept them into the Rancho Santa Fe craft instead. Dvvody took to it, but Lkkody was out in weeks. Dvvody was indeed an exception – definitely ‘the last shall be first’.

23. Sawyer:

Nothing is impossible with the Next Level. I really dislike the way Mark talks here. “The Group was always GOING AFTER (my upper case) former members.” It’s not even accurate to say that way. I mean, sure TI and DO wanted to provide what they knew to former students but when DO had the video Jwnody and I made in 1992 put up on satellite dish, uploaded by Hughs aircraft that was with the idea of presenting the truth to Christians and I would say most of the former members were not among them.

There was little to no response so DO reconsidered and felt to make the Beyond Human Video Tape Series which we also uploaded to a Satellite TV channel. The address provided was TOA that went to a Post Office Box that kept on being forwarded to wherever we moved to after that. Most of the replies came from former students.

But next DO wrote the USA Today Info/Ad and that was put in that newspaper on May 27th, 1993 if I recall correctly and it too had a PO Box people could write to. From that we got quite a number of requests for more information from prisoners and others all over the U.S. who we began to correspond with. We had a number of partnerships assigned by DO to keep up with certain ones who wrote us. We sent some Beyond Human video tapes. We even attracted a homeless person who DO had meet with Alxody and myself in Flagstaff, AZ while we lived in Paradise Valley, AZ to see if he might fit into the Classroom. I spoke to DO on the phone and expressed that Alxody and I didn’t feel any reason to not bring him to the Classroom. He did join us and soon left because he couldn’t fit in. He chose the name, Ready so became Rddody. He was okay at first but soon thereafter he began to be critical of me and others and DO told him about his not being able to judge me (us) and so he couldn’t handle that criticism so left the Class.

Then when we put the new version of the USA Today Info/Ad into a bunch of New Agey Periodicals in New Zealand, Australia, England, Scotland, Canada and all over the U.S. we again received mail and exchanged letters and sent some Beyond Human video tapes to some. Again none were former students and DO felt from they would really need to be in the Class to progress and that wasn’t possible, shown also by Ready (Rddody).

Then that prompted DO and Crew to prepare to hold face to face meetings all over the U.S. which we started as a test case with Denver that Jwnody and I were speakers for and in Albuquerque where Chkody and perhaps Alxody were speakers. That seemed to be a positive so we prepared to live camping again and drove away on January 1, 1994 to hold meetings. From that 9 months we had added over 12 new members and only a few were former classmembers and at least one of them, Arrody when he realized in September of 1994 that we were talking about laying down our vehicles by our own hands, decided that wasn’t for him so left us.

Then when Dvvody and Lkkody who were married in the world and had 4 children together wanted to join and did, again these were not former students.

This terminology of throwing out a net to catch new members was hardly if ever used by TI and DO. Sure there is a parallel but that also can be a big turn off and it’s hard enough for people to see through the discarnate and space alien influences that want to keep people’s eyes shut to seeing who TI and DO are. Though I don’t mind that I was “caught” but what was really happening is that the vehicle was caught by the Soul with that vehicle and offered training like a Rancher going to the wild to catch some horses and then for those that accept the ranchers training they even become part of the ranchers family while the others are let to go wild again.

But I don’t think he is right by the evidence I just showed to say the former students were “easiest to catch”. Another point to this not being our mindset of catching people. At the Chicago meeting in 1994 that Evnody and I as overseers of one of the Groups were speakers at, we met with two in the audience that said they wanted to join us. When I told them how we were living and eating pretty much what we were given in donations, even fast food, they said they couldn’t do it because they were strict vegans. We at one point had been stricter vegans than most vegans but that wasn’t the program now so that was a strong indication that they would be too ridged to fit within the group so we turned them away.

We at that time nor thereafter don’t need to have new believers or followers. It’s simply our joy to see some responding that way but as soon as they choose to take some other path it’s like how fast can we help you leave because we have tasks to do for the Next Level and are interfered with by people who are on the fence.

In 1996 I’m not aware of who had been in Mark and Sarah’s “halfway house”. When I was there for several weeks there wasn’t anything half way about it, not at least as I saw it. But perhaps I didn’t know of someone in the class staying with them as a half way situation.

Niklas:

Matthew 20:16, ‘So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.’ On March 21, 1997 – the day before Hale-Bopp’s closest proximity to Earth – Mrcody and Srfody had a conference call with Do and the Class. The Group announced that plans had been made to take the leap, so to speak, and travel off-world. They had some requests regarding the management of their legacy.

24. Mark:

– They all thanked us profusely for what we had done and would do. It was a very kind and loving call. We had just received a parcel containing the latest version of their anthology and knew they wanted us, with the help of Oscody, to make sure it got published and submitted to the Library of Congress. We talked about that as well as the other work coming our way. However, we didn’t quite realize the full scope of our task until the FedEx boxes arrived the following Wednesday.

24. Sawyer:

First off, Simple error of no consequence – Mark and Sarah knew the group had told them they had exited in their Letter in the Fedx package they admitted to receiving on March 25th which was a Tuesday. So if they received a conference call from DO and The Class on March 21st, a Friday it wasn’t the following Wednesday when they knew the full scope of what their tasks were to be.

If what Niklas says here about the 21st call included The Class saying to Mark and Sarah that “plans had been made to take the leap” then when Mark and Sarah received the Fed X that following Tuesday, the 25th why didn’t they open it right away to read it’s contents and since Rkkody reported when he called Mark that same day on the 25th he was told by Mark that they hadn’t yet examined it closely, why didn’t Mark immediately report that news to Sarah at home. Rkkody called Sarah at home right after he hung up with Mark and said that Sarah didn’t believe him that the Class had exited. According to Rkkody when Mark got home that afternoon or night he shared the Fedx with Sarah.

I understand that Mark and Sarah could have thought the entire time they had had some association with the Group after they were sent out of the Group that the Group prepared a packet to be sent to the world should they exit. Mark and Sarah both knew that while TI was in her vehicle they did that every year as well. Apparently because they weren’t in the Class that whole time they didn’t know how series DO was about exiting at that time. Had they been in touch with Neody (Rio) after Rio left about two weeks before the Class left, he could have told Mark and Sarah how serious they were about exiting then, with the timing of the Hale Bopp Comets perihelion.

Mark reversed history in this statement regarding Oscody and the book instructions from DO and Crew regarding the registration of the book with the Library of Congress when that task was given to Oscody not to Mark and Sarah. He says, “We had just received a parcel containing the latest version of their anthology and knew they wanted us, with the help of Oscody, to make sure it got published and submitted to the Library of Congress.”

Here is the direct instruction Mark and Sarah received. On page two of one of the Letters they got from DO’s crew on March 25, 1997 by Fed X, (that the reason we have is because they gave those Letters to Rkkody on March 27, 1997, according to Rkkody and Crlody who learned this from Rkkody, to turn over all their tasks the Class gave them for Rkkody and Oscody to do, which was what DO’s Crew suggested if they couldn’t or didn’t want to do the tasks themselves as They hoped. It states:

“We also asked Oscody to register the Heaven’s Gate book with the Library of Congress and that if he needed any funds to accomplish this, that you would cover it out of the project funds that you have on hand.”

It was Oscody’s task. He was assigned to be the primary and all Mark and Sarah were instructed to do in that regard to the Library of Congress was to provide the funds for it if Oscody needed those funds.

As Mark often does as shown throughout this interview is twist things, probably not intentionally but probably forgetting what the instructions actually were. He also probably added himself into the task and may have even canoodled the task away from Oscody. My understanding from Crlody who learned it from Rkkody was that Oscody also received $10,000.00 from the Class for the Project.

Also what “project” were they talking about. In several other Letters to Mark and Sarah and to Rkkody and to Jhnody the Project is spelled out to be the Dissemination Project. And this is the project Mark and Sarah hid from starting and then when they wanted it back, expanded on it so that they began to think only they were given such project even though DO said they could include those on the list as some to work with initially at least but could include others in and DO didn’t name others so it was up to “others” who made their desire to share in the dissemination task known. Thus Mark and Sarah should have, like Rkkody shared with me the audio tapes at least since they were digitized so easy to share.

Niklas:

Starting March 22, employing the same teamwork efficiency with which they prospered both professionally and privately, the remaining thirty-nine members went to their human deaths in three shifts over three days. Those in line for evacuation ingested a lethal dose of an anti-seizure medication called phenobarbital and then potentiated it by downing some vodka. This would’ve been the first drop of alcohol many of the students consumed for over twenty years. Wearing identical uniforms, complete with the famous Heaven’s Gate Away Team patches and Nike shoes, they pulled plastic bags over their heads, secured them, and laid down to die. Upon expiry, Classmates from the next shift removed the bags and draped their corpses with purple shrouds. Do was part of the third and final wave, which was down to nine people. He left third to last, assisted by Lvvody and Jnnody – two women in their mid-forties, the former of which attended the Waldport meeting with Mrcody – who then covered him and followed suit. The next day, March 25, Mrcody and Srfody received a FedEx parcel containing a personal letter addressed to them, a press release, a list of the other recipients, account details for heavensgate.com, and various keys to cars and storage units complete with maps and directions. There were also two tapes containing ‘exit videos’, showing the departed members’ goodbyes. I’m trying to imagine what it must have been like to watch these heartfelt but visibly elated farewells from people they’d shared so much with.

25. Mark:

– The two videos were in SVHS format and could not be played on our home equipment, so we had to get them converted and then watched both in one sitting. We do not feel sorrow. We were happy they made it, but there was simultaneously the sense of having a big task ahead of us. It felt really special, and the humor we saw directed at us was very funny. Do and the Group loved laughter.

25. Sawyer:

I don’t know why that statement about humor was included in this interview.

For the record, Rkkody and Jhnody and as many as 4 others also received Fed X packages on March 25, 1997 from DO and Crew. In each of them as I understand it they received maps to be able to find them in the house, certain exit tapes and recycling tapes and Beyond Human Series tapes and in Rkkody and Jhnody’s case, at least, received the Anthology version one of Their Book with instructions.

Niklas:

Speaking of which, I’ve found the Heaven’s Gate material to contain some rather subtle and clever elements of humor Nothing whimsical, but more of a dry and poignant wit. Several remarks in Do’s tapes, as well as the ’88 Update, for example. Not to mention the Nike shoes; ‘Just Do it’. Jwnody – Mrcody’s old check-partner, the one who was pregnant when she joined the Group – closed her exit statement with a Star Trek reference: ‘Thirty-nine to beam up!’

26. Mark:

– We were laughing all the time. Their wit was priceless. The pocket contents of an ID, a five-dollar bill, and some coins was hilarious. Sending us non-durable power of attorney over everyone in the Group, knowing they terminated on death… could you imagine the reaction if someone had survived, and their families found out we held the legal authority? The account receivables from Higher Source, even though every single client would deny all affiliation. The Class knew we’d get the back of the hand from some former students, but our letter said, ‘You are about to inherit what’s left of our purser task, to do with as you choose.’ Our detractors never mention that sentence. Also, the ‘If you choose to accept this mission’ part is especially delicious. Their love of fun was wonderful.

26. Sawyer:

I have no problem with how they performed the Purser tasks they were given. My problem is with how to handle the Groups Intellectual Property – disseminate it freely without strings and they don’t like that unless they are doing it and they won’t do it so the information remains hidden for now over 20 years.

Even though we know that Members of the Class could make mistakes and DO didn’t necessarily examine and re-examine every purser choice, relying on his crew members to do the necessary research, as ultimately any mistakes made by Pursers weren’t going to affect their intention for their information to be disseminated to the world. But to read what Mark said here as:

“Sending us non-durable power of attorney over everyone in the Group, knowing they terminated on death… could you imagine the reaction if someone had survived, and their families found out we held the legal authority?”

To me when I read this it felt almost like a mockery of Pursers and ultimately AGAIN DO, the families had someone lived would have been outraged to find Mark and Sarah holding their rights. First off the Pursers said they were sending them “a comprehensive Power of Attorney”. The reason they were given power of attorney was described in their Purser letter:

“We are sending you a comprehensive Power of Attorney for anyone expecting a tax refund, or who has major items (cars, credit cards, insurance, rent, etc.) in their name. We don’t know if these will be accepted by those you deal with, or if you’ll have any reason to use them.”

I haven’t seen the documents so I don’t doubt that legally they were non-durable thus terminate upon the principals decease but if I were to guess about what happened in that case, I would say Pursers may have overlooked that a comprehensive power of Attorney, depending upon the language could be non-durable as they did wish for Mark and Sarah to have access to the funds they might get from tax refunds and assets in certain classmates legal names.

Yes, they stated in the Letters that they could do whatever they felt was right for them, but DO also had his Crew writing the letters state what DO and Crew’s desire was. Thus it became a matter of doing the task DO wanted them to do or doing it their own way. Mark and Sarah chose to ignore much of what DO’s desire was and instead do things their own way and that’s why so much got botched and that they are continuing to botch. DO’s desires are not complicated.

It’s sad that they talk about getting the back of the hand from some former students when they have been using a club against us hiding the audio tapes and not allowing us to make an audio Heaven’s gate book and not allowing anyone to support our own efforts of dissemination of Their Information by putting their images on T shirts and other places for sale. After all DO’s Crew said from the items of value retrieved from storage one could make some funds to support the project from them. They won’t even let us play part of an audio tape on my YouTube channel anymore. They allowed me to do it for over 15 years and now that I have more audios they are suing me for playing them and others.

Niklas:

What were the five-dollar bill and quarters in the Exit Team uniform pockets about?

27. Mark:

– According to the autopsy report, the individuals who departed had all sorts of change in their pockets. Some were found with pennies and dimes, others with only one quarter. When heading out to our OOC tasks each day, we brought along our state ID – usually a driver’s license – so that we could legally identify ourselves. We also took a five-dollar bill to cover the vagrancy fines in any state, plus one to three quarters to call the house if we were running late. Humans take these things for granted and never consider why they must have them to function in society. It was our way of not letting ourselves be tripped up by petty legal issues. To us, this ‘dispatch procedure’ was rather amusing since we knew it was a wink and a nod at former Classmates. Did they need to do this? No. Was it indicative of following basic procedures until the end? Yes. Was it an inside joke? Yes. Humans were confused about this because it was for us to joke about, not them. It was a lovable trait we appreciated greatly.

27. Sawyer:

I recall that initially we also were given a $5 bill and some change to use the $5 if our task out of the craft was delayed and we were missing an experiment (what we called a meal) to buy something to tide us over and/or to make a phone call as needed.

Mark doesn’t seem to consider that to DO and Crew it was possible TI could heal their vehicles and/or resurrect those vehicles and/or take the vehicles and even make a spectacle of it and send a Next Level Member on a task using that vehicle they would heal and/or use the clothing for Members of the Next Level to do a task on earth and not look like they were from the early 1900’s.

Also Mark Twain, in his movie Captain Stormfield’s Trip to Heaven, written in the first decade of the 1900’s states that the fare to ride the tail of a comet to Heaven was $5.75. I didn’t think all had that amount but got reports that a number did.

I don’t think it was that much of an “inside joke”, though yes it was humorous, but I think it also was making a statement that any who did the research would find out how much Mark Twain (Samuel Clemmons) was far ahead of his time.

I know I could be wrong about this and it’s not really anything I consider important to consider because I don’t recall DO or TI talking about the 1897 UFO crash that happened in Aurora, Texas. I began to wonder if this was a Next Level stimulated crash as it had one occupant in the report and wasn’t a human. I wondered if the Soul that was in that vehicle had a task to perhaps be like a John the Baptist to begin to prepare the U.S. for the upcoming return and even influencing Samuel Clemmons in his use of the Mark Twain character. Samuel was also a Mississippi River boat captain. The captains deck on such a boat was referred to as the Tejas (Texas) deck where the Captain resided. DO whose vehicle was from Texas where TI and DO both chose to incarnate into human vehicles prepared for them, talked about being like a Captain in Next Level rank where he talked about TI being like an Admiral, using Navy terms, again like the captain of a ship (Riverboat). The Mississippi River, TI and DO considered to be a type of dividing line on the U.S. “ship” to where west of the Mississippi River was where They felt most in touch with their Older Member (who would have been on a spacecraft somewhere in outer space (heavens) overseeing Their task. When TI and DO would travel east of the Mississippi River they felt that sense of being in contact with their Older Member diminish or even be absent. It’s of further interest that in…

Rev 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

…there is the depiction of a “reed like unto a rod” used to “measure the temple of God”. In biblical interpretations, a River is a way of depicting many humans, even with seas referring to the sea of humanity. The Temple can be thought of in at least three ways. It’s the building where Humans worship God. DO said to worship really meant, “to work for”. Another meaning refers to the Souls inside of People who are making further application to graduate out of the human kingdom and into the Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human, aka Kingdom of God or Kingdom of Heaven – the literal heavens (elevated areas above the earth where the planets and stars are).

It was interesting that Mark Twain was a river boat Captain and one of his tasks was to “measure the depth of the water” so his boat won’t run aground They used a long rod to measure the depth. This was the first verse in Chapter 11 of the Book of Revelation that went on to talk about the Two Witnesses and their both being “Christs” – anointed ones that Zechariah showed in prophecy of seeing TWO that he recounted he received from an “angel”.

So I began to think of the Western U.S. as the Temple area. TI and DO did venture east of the Mississippi to look for potential lost souls who hadn’t made their way west like most of those who became their students.

Next I began to examine the next verse in Revelation 11…

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

…which talks about The Court that is outside the Temple and not to measure it, hence very few meetings were held in the eastern portion of the U.S. during either the 1975-6 public meetings or the 1994 public meetings. However, DO didn’t follow prophecy so he had us still venture into those areas to be thorough and did find a few students there. In the 1990’s DO had the Crew begin to measure areas east of the Western U.S. relative to the two sides of the Mississippi River yet few attended those meetings.

When Cathy and I got together, Cathy being a relatively new believer in TI and DO was more on fire with the Information than I. After all there was a lot of tapes, etc. that I had heard and I was sort of in the mindset that most of what I would do to disseminate TI and DO’s information would be best done through the internet.

But now we were together and she wanted to see if we could set up meetings wherever so she set up a meeting in L.A. in November of 2021 and then of late in Savannah, Georgia on December 17, 2022. At the meeting in Savannah there was a sizable interest. Perhaps this is the time for the Court is most appropriate for meetings but I suspect it’s all over.

I am not of a mind that TI and DO and Crew did anything for one purpose alone. I doubt they did anything to be an inside joke for former Classmembers even though former Classmembers would be able to bring practical thinking to much that they did.

My book is full of these kinds of potential connections and I feel there are still more to be discovered.

Niklas:

On March 26, the day after the FedEx delivery, two former students named Rkkody and Oscody – both of whom had received letters of their own – flew to San Diego to retrieve vehicles and various Classroom materials. They picked up the Lincoln Continental waiting for them at the airport and then drove to the Group’s commercial storage space.

28. Mark:

– It was an opportunity for Rkkody to clear out the storage room. Oscody tried to get him to do it, but Rkkody was only interested in some audio tapes, his designated automobile, and the cash stored in it. Rkkody said his back was hurting, so he didn’t want to put the contents into the moving truck we’d assigned to him. They then went up to the mansion in Rancho Santa Fe at about 5:30 pm and were met by a large police presence. Rio, another former member, had made his way there first. Rkkody and Oscody left the area and drove to Phoenix.

28. Sawyer:

How come Mark doesn’t correct Niklas’ understanding of the timing when Rkkody and Oscody went to San Diego on the 26th. Maybe he still doesn’t know what Rkkody wrote in his manuscript. Rkkody knew nothing about the instructions Mark and Sarah received on March 25, 1997 in their Fed X packet that contained Letters from The Class. The evidence that Mark and/or Sarah had read at least the Letters addressed to them in the packet is because according to Rkkody, Mark and Sarah called him at least on the 25th and 26th wanting their address at this business that they agreed to provide to the Class to be taken off the website, as they knew Rkkody had the website access codes and know how to make changes. The Class talked about Rkkody doing that task in the Letter to Mark and Sarah. Mark and Sarah also said they planned to take their names and Rkkody’s name off the letter DO asked them to send to SAM, the owner of the house, after they had a “chance to get to the address” where their bodies were layed down to their death. That instruction about sending that letter was in their letter.

Here is the segment from the bottom of page 2 of the Letter addressed to MRC/SRF signed by The Class:

“URGENT Note: Please drop the letter in the mail addressed to our landlord, Sam, as soon as you feel comfortable that he will not get that letter before you have a chance to get to the address listed in the “Location” document.”

After all, Mark/Sarah knew Rkkody and Oscody went to San Diego on the morning of the 26th. It’s hard to imagine Mark/Sarah didn’t know before they left about the content of the Letters addressed to them since the instructions on handling that Letter to SAM was in the same letter as I just showed.

So it seems evident Mark and Sarah caused both Rkkody and Oscody a wasted trip to San Diego area.

Rkkody said he was on the phone with Mark/Sarah on that wasted trip as they were coming back. Mark just skips telling about how Rkkody and Oscody went back to San Diego area on March 27th 1997 after Mark/Sarah gave Rkkody most all their letters so on that second trip they did have most of the instructions and keys to get the cars with. But I don’t know how much opportunity Rkkody and Oscody had to study the contents of Mark/Sarah’s letters as for some reason they didn’t know about the Yellow Truck for that trip.

If Mark/Sarah had alerted Rkkody/Oscody to the need to get the truck, then they wouldn’t have only retrieved the Lincoln to have very limited space to haul away the full contents of storage that the Class didn’t want authorities to have.

Key points on the Timeline according to Rkkody’s manuscript:

March 25, 1997: Rkkody received two packets and read them and called Mark who was with Oscody. They hadn’t looked at the contents of their own packets completely by then, he wrote that he learned on that call. Rkkody slept on it.

March 26, 1997: Rkkody flew to Phoenix from Denver and he and Oscody drove to San Diego from Phoenix and got to San Diego area before the news had broke and got about 10 minutes away from the house at Rancho Sante Fe and heard on the radio that the bodies were discovered.

Rkkody doesn’t indicate at that time that he knew anything about the cars or the truck or the contents of Storage. It was the 27th when they learned of the cars and Storage instructions from Mark and Sarah when they turned over all their Letters to him.

So they flew back to Phoenix that same night and stayed at Oscody’s place there and Mark called Rkkody around 3am (Thursday the 27th) wanting Rkkody to make changes to the website to get their address off of it, though it was the address they gave to the Class to use.

Rkkody said he couldn’t do that at first because when he tried the server was down from all the hits the website took.

Then that morning of the 27th, they met with Mark and Sarah in a parking lot and Mark and Sarah gave him all the correspondence they received from DO and Crew, plus keys to some 7 cars/vans/trucks they had parked at the San Diego Airport and paid for and the codes to three storage lockers in two locations, San Diego and 2 in Escondido.

Then Rkkody and Oscody flew to San Diego, took a shuttle to the airport parking and took L car, the Lincoln that was instructed in the letters to go to Rkkody and they drove it to the storage in Escondido and opened the storage and it was full and they took 6-7 boxes of audio tapes out and put them in L car and went to the other storage unit in that complex and saw that it was mostly filled with camping equipment and household items. Then they went back to the airport parking area and got M Van slated for Oscody to have and put some of the audios in it and then Rkkody and Oscody drove back towards Phoenix. They stopped at a motel after driving for a couple of hours and slept and early the next morning of Friday the 28th drove the rest of the way to Phoenix.

I feel Mark is trying to muddy the waters here of what happened because they don’t want to admit they ran away from doing the task DO gave them to do.

The way Mark talks about this Rkkody and Oscody went to Storage before they went to Rancho Sante Fe. But that wasn’t possible as they didn’t know about the Storage locations nor units nor codes and also didn’t have the keys because Mark and Sarah who had all that information didn’t give it to Rkkody until the morning of the 27th. Their failure resulted in San Diego getting most of the contents of Storage.

Mark says, “Rkkody was only interested in some audio tapes…”, but what other “items of value” in that storage room were the most valuable items of value if not the audio tape library that he and Oscody only got 486 of? In Mark and Sarah’s letter Rkkody was designated to have the L Car and the Letter also said that he, Oscody and Mrc/Srf (Mark and Sarah) were getting money, so why not get it.

Why didn’t Mark and Sarah help with that retrieval of cars and as the Letter from DO’s Crew said, regarding the Storage “any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information” task? They did nothing though DO made them the primary on those tasks. It seems quite apparent they were too scared to do anything so they turned over the task to Rkkody and Oscody just like Rkkody reported in his manuscript and told Carlan happened. Mark conveniently doesn’t ever talk about those clear instructions from DO in the Letter.

Some might say that Mark and Sarah gave Rkkody and Oscody their Letters because that was the best way to give them the exact addresses to the storage units and the pass codes to the various storage units. Fair enough, but then why include the Letter that the Class sent to them addressed to Chris and Holly? And why give Rkkody the Letter from Purser re: the Higher Source company accounts receivables showing how much money they were owed and by whom. That Letter also listed Postal Boxes the group had, included Power of Attorneys/ID’s for them all, two Bank Accounts, one for Higher Source and one for Telah Services. It included Voicemails and even Phone Cards with money still on them and instructions that they shouldn’t have any bills to pay and expressing why they didn’t think they needed to cancel registrations and insurance for the cars because they figured they’d be sold or re-registered anyway. That Letter also indicated they had made arrangements to get them some funds that they were also sending to Oscody and Rkkody. They also got a Letter that said who else was receiving a similar letter and one of those was Rkkody so why give him anything but the information to get the cars they were given the task to be the primaries to retrieve from the airport in San Diego where they were prepaid for parking.

Rkkody wasn’t even sent all this information about the cars as they were and wasn’t told about the Storage Room because Rkkody wasn’t to be a primary on the task. Mark and Sarah surely knew that if they were given the instructions, they were the primaries on the task and that the suggestions to use Rkkody and Oscody and others as needed that was in their Letter was their choice to include as Secondaries on the task. Sure they were given the choice to not be primaries and to do whatever they felt right about but if they wanted to serve exactly according to DO’s hopes, they would have gone to storage. They even told Cathy and I in person that they did go to storage and the lock had already been put on the doors but according to Rkkody only Oscody went to Storage for the second and last time, who reported that to Rkkody and certainly to Mark and Sarah. They told Cathy and I they didn’t go to storage the first time because they had to go to San Diego to ID the bodies, but we learn hear they only sent a document to San Diego authorities to help them ID the bodies. They knew this looked bad for their version of the story and that it gives more credence to Rkkody’s version of the story that he wrote in his manuscript about that time that his daughter had and Carlan was given by her and that he just recently shared with me.

After all if Rkkody’s account of Mark and Sarah turning over their own Letters they received, with the keys to the cars parked in the airport in San Diego didn’t happen, and the truck in storage, then how did Rkkody get the keys and Letters. And why did certain Letters have the names blacked out when they were clearly meant for Mark and Sarah.

DO knew this might happen, I bet, which is why he gave Mark and Sarah the out of doing things their way. DO knew that Mark had demonstrated over years of not following certain procedures if they didn’t make sense to him. (See audio tape 37 where DO gives him several lessons in this regard and audio tape 204 where DO refers to having to “mute” Mrcody because he had become too much of a wagon master which was never procedure. And yet that’s exactly what they became surrounding the Intellectual property of Heaven’s Gate that they gained access to. Mark tried to lure me into his fold in the early 2000’s I think it was. He told me if I came to his area he would show me the proof that he and Sarah were to control all their Intellectual Property. I wanted nothing to do with his “group” he believed himself with Sarah to be the leaders of. I knew that DO’s intention (and TI’s) was for every believer to participate in disseminating Their Teachings to others. I’m not saying I wouldn’t have liked to work with the others that were still alive, like Flxody and Ablody and Pypody and even Jhnody and others that ended up gathering in Arkansas, but the task of disseminating wasn’t that complicated as they were making it into. Just do the task. Step out into the street or put up one’s shingle on the internet and share exactly what TI and DO said with others. By that time I was doing just that and only wanted him to stop hording the audio tapes so I could send them to people who were asking and deserved to receive them.

Mark said, “Rkkody said his back was hurting, so he didn’t want to put the contents into the moving truck we’d assigned to him.” We refers to he and Sarah.

This is another of Marks skewing the truth to make himself look like he was in charge. The assignment to the truck came from DO and Crew in the Letter to MRC/SRF (Mark and Sarah), the same letter Mark and Sarah gave to Rkkody because they apparently didn’t want to do the tasks DO gave them.

In the Letter it said, “We also have a 20 foot yellow truck in a separate storage unit and we did think that RKK would be a good choice to retrieve it. It’s big enough to be able to haul all of what’s in storage, we believe. The truck storage paperwork is also enclosed.”

Furthermore Rkkody received in one of his two Fed X packets from DO on March 25th 1997 “receipts and insurance forms for the old Ryder truck the class had bought a couple years ago in Texas”

Like I already said, I believe Rkkody’s account which says he and Oscody never got to the mansion. They were about 10 minutes away when they heard the story on the news so they turned around and went back to Phoenix.

I have no idea who told Mark that Rkkody didn’t get the contents of storage because his back hurt. Who else could have told them that, Oscody? I could see Rkkody opening the door to that large storage unit and seeing it filled to the top with boxes, saying something about his back, but did that mean he wouldn’t have found a way to tackle the task. The fact was according to his account that he didn’t have the truck with him at the storage unit at that time.

It appeared at that time that all Mark and Sarah cared about was getting rid of their names on the letter to SAM and taking off their mailing address on the Heaven’s Gate web site and hiding from the responsibility DO offered to them by turning over all the tasks to Rkkody via the Letters we have from DO to them because that’s how Rkkody got their letters in the first place.

For the record, Mark almost always puts Rkkody down as he does to me, Carlan and even Cathy and to date Juan (Jhnody) and he so often either has a very selective memory or just remembers little or manipulates the language to make him and Sarah look like they have no faults in anything that happened then or happens now. They are supreme finger pointers and yet they think we, Carlan and I are finger pointing at them except there is one huge different. We can prove using his own words that he and Sarah are either often sloppy in their recounting or leaving out crucial details or have contradicted what they even have said or are outright lying or only giving partial truths while taking no responsibility This interview by now I’ve shown to be full of these kinds of statements that even go against TI and DO wishes and Minds.

It’s very sad and I wish I didn’t have to be on their case but they are the instigators of hatred and negativity keeping TI and DO’s audio tapes away from people galore over 24 years while saying they want to share them with people. We have all this on record, expressed by them.

I believe Rkkody’s account 99% of the time more than Mark and Sarah’s accounts and I have multiple witnesses on this score. There is Carlan who worked with Rkkody at that time soon after the group left and Rkkody told him many things and Carlan witnessed many things coming out of the mouth of Mark and Sarah and the inclusion of lies and forms of deceit. There is Rkkody’s daughter who may not even believe in TI and DO but was sued by Mark and Sarah, who threatened to take away her house (as she wrote to me about in 1998, and Rkkody talked to me about in 1998 before he exited his vehicle). There is to date Cathy who was witness to emails from Mark about me before she knew me in person. And there is Jhnody (Juan) who saw through how Mark and Sarah had tried to keep people from sharing TI and DO’s book with others and the many audio tapes and how they have tried to issue strikes against me on YouTube for my fair use of the audio tapes Rkkody had sent me in 1997 and that Jhnody sent me in 2021. I won with YouTube became my channel, 3spm wasn’t monetized ever.

Speaking of Mark and Sarah instigating strikes against me on my YouTube channel: 3spm. They issued one against my reading TI’s only official document entitled, “The Power of Goodness”. Plus Cathy and I were reading aloud on the 3spm channel the Heaven’s Gate Book and they were against our doing that too. It’s even one of the seven counts against Cathy and I in their lawsuit against us. We wanted people to be able to turn the tapes on in the car or at work to listen to or for the blind to listen to. But they told us they need to be the controllers to oversee everything and though I have no problem with looking to overseers on tasks, they were not my overseer of anything as even though they were given tasks by DO doesn’t mean they are performing those tasks as DO hoped.

Rkkody has a lot to say in his manuscript and he had zero reason to lie, while Mark and Sarah have so much dirty laundry over the years from before and after the group left that they don’t even seem to know how far afield they have gone against TI and DO’s true wishes as expressed in the Letters, for the little tasks they were given that they may by now be hanging themselves in the stand they have been taking against them while making their teachings some saccharine pseudo spiritual religion.

Niklas:

Did you have any idea what awaited them in the mansion?

29. Mark:

– None of us knew the details of how the Class would exit, but we pieced it together soon enough. We were with our attorney group in downtown Phoenix and told them it was going to happen at any time. One of their assistants burst into the conference room and said, ‘Turn on CNN, now!’ Via our legal counsel, we assisted the San Diego County Sheriff’s Department throughout the evening. We sent them a chart of the expired so that they could be identified quickly. We supplied all the relevant information.

29. Sawyer:

The first day the news broke was March 26, 1997 so that must have been the day they were meeting with their “attorney group” when what Mark said happened. Why were they meeting with their attorney group on the day the news broke. They only learned they had exited from the March 25th 1997 Fedx packet or did they arrange to talk to attorneys after the group called them on March 21st to say they had made plans to “take the leap”? Does that mean they were meeting with attorneys to see if they would be liable in some way if the group really had exited as it indicated in their March 25th packet they did? Isn’t that a bit risky. How did Mark and Sarah know the Group wouldn’t have changed their mind and put off their exit for days or weeks, months or years yet they were telling attorneys “it was going to happen at any time”. Doesn’t that show specific foreknowledge. Wasn’t that information meant to be between DO and Crew and Mark and Sarah. But telling an attorney group would have meant they would tell so many people that could have easily led to the police getting involved to try to stop them which would have been a major security breach of the Classes privacy to do.

I knew the details of how the Class was planning to exit. Of course since I left in 1994, DO could have changed the plan from what he told us but as it turned out it was almost exactly the same plan DO talked to all the class about in September of 1994 in a warehouse meeting in San Clemente, CA. I didn’t know when and didn’t know if they would follow through because we talked about many things we didn’t do. But Mark and Sarah weren’t privy to that information because they weren’t in the Class then nor at any time until they exited, so there was just so much they would be told about.

Cathy and I are witness to Mark and Sarah saying they got their last Fed X packet from the Group on March 25, 1997, the same date Rkkody, Oscody and Rio and I suppose others received theirs. (Not sure when exactly Jhnody received his in Venezuela but it was very close to that day).

Rkkody says in his manuscript that he got his on March 25th 1997 and same day he called Mark and Oscody was with him and had received a packet they “hadn’t looked over closely” yet but then a while later that day Rkkody spoke to Mrc/Srf after they had examined their content of their packets because they talked about the letter the Class included in Mrc/Srf’s packet they gave them instructions to send to SAM, the owner of the Rancho Sante Fe house. It was Mrc/Srf’s first concern that on that letter were their names and Rkkody’s name. Rkkody said they were all afraid to have authorities having their names. So Rkkody said to Mark/Sarah to do what they felt was right and he understood that they got rid of all three of their names on the letter and then sent it to SAM after the bodies were found (which was March 26th 1997).

Cathy and I asked Mark and Sarah face to face at their lawyers office in Phoenix in November of 2021 whether they knew the Group planned to exit their vehicles and they told us they didn’t have any foreknowledge but what Mark is saying here is that they did have foreknowledge on the 21st unless Niklas got that wrong but if so then why didn’t Mark correct him in his reply to that question/comment?

Niklas:

Given Mrcody and Srfody’s security-mindedness, it must have been a somewhat disconcerting realization that the street address of their livelihood was listed on the Heaven’s Gate website – upon which the entire world’s attention now rested. I read many contemporary news stories stating that reporters had reached out to the owners for a comment about their affiliation with TELAH Services.

30. Mark:

– We knew this would be difficult to handle. When the full pressure of the global press and legal entities is applied, you must be quick on your feet. We stayed away from direct questions and told the reporters that TELAH were box-holders at our business. We were careful with what we did and where we went. Some of our employees wondered what was going on, but we instructed them to remain quiet and only take messages. It quieted down in a few days and passed entirely within a reasonable amount of time.

30. Sawyer:

So it seems their fears at first were unfounded. They could have trusted DO’s using their address for the Heavensgate.com website. They could have trusted that when DO included their names on the letter DO asked them to send to SAM, the owner of the Rancho Sante Fe house. They could have trusted that if they acted quickly they could have communicated with others who received Fed X packets and letters to all go to the Airport in San Diego, retrieve the cars left there for them as described in one of the Letters to them from the Group in their packet, and retrieve the Truck from storage the Group thought Rkkody could retrieve and then could have all gone to the two main storage rooms and unloaded their contents into the Yellow truck and then they never would have had a problem with San Diego county confiscating the storage contents. So quick on their feet as Mark brags was slow and really complicated getting the items of value from storage out of San Diego’s hands.

According to Rkkody they were hiding out and wouldn’t even talk to Rkkody on the phone out of fear they were being tapped or something. Rkkody said he was trying to check with them about things but they made it hard to do. Rkkody said they and Oscody had some kind of code to use to get in touch. I don’t think any of that was wrong to do but they way they say so little about what actually happened and how fearful they were is another of the many subjects they skirt around and seek to hide from the public view. It’s a big problem when someone thinks so much of themselves that they can’t stand to recognize and admit their mistakes that we all make. But then their mistakes are being used to date to sue me for doing what DO wanted all of us to do – participate in the Dissemination Project.

Niklas:

Several of the letters to former students stated, ‘We want you to feel free to exercise any available options with whatever timing feels right for your own next step’. As did Srfody and Mrcody’s – but with the added phrase ‘No doors are closed to you’. I’m unsure whether this was an invitation or a humorous reference to all the keys included.

31. Mark:

– We knew this had two meanings – from departing after them to taking the steps necessary to protect and carry out our tasks. We’d been left with the lion’s share of their work and legacy. Some former Classmates had specific assignments which could be completed in days, whereas we have tasks for the remainder of our lives.

31. Sawyer:

The entire paragraph from DO and Crews Letter signed by The Class reads:

“Also we want to make it clear that we’re certainly not asking you to do these tasks if, after receiving this information, circumstances make it too difficult or other options seem more appropriate for you. We want you to feel free to exercise any available options with whatever timing feels right for your own next step. No doors are closed to you.”

Having read the other two pages of this Letter, The Class certainly expressed their desires, what they hoped Mark and Sarah would do, from working together with some of the following: OSC, RKK, JHN, FLX/ABL and NEO (Rio) and even potentially Soeren could be “included in events that transpire to whatever degree feels right. It was clear that those on the list just listed would also be potentially included “would be most helpful to you” then suggesting RKK and OSC as “would likely be a big help” but “including others would be OK as well, whatever your strategy permits.”

They said, “We put into storage items that we would prefer the authorities not have access to.” They said they could “do with those items whatever feels right to you.”

They said “We also have a 20 foot yellow truck in a separate storage unit, and we did think that RKK would be a good choice to retrieve it – it’s big enough to haul all of what’s in storage, we believe.”

They said in the Letter from The Class re: the disposition of the cars and vans and a truck:

“The large yellow moving truck can be found at our storage place (the accessing and disposing of storage items are covered in another note to you). Again, perhaps you could get some help from RKK or OSC in handling the truck and storage.”

They said they enclosed in the packet another document that “further covers the disposition of our cars and this truck.”

Then they said, “It is our desire that any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information.”

And added, “Any of the funds you retrieve can be used towards that end and for the living expenses of those involving themselves with this project.”

It seems they were referring to the funds that were in at least one car that they wanted RKK to retrieve but I guess that could include any funds that came from some of the items of value in Storage that included Away Team patches, video tapes, audio tapes, etc.

Then they said after they described working with the Romanian ISP with the website off shore in case authorities wouldn’t allow the Heaven’s Gate site to remain up and they talked about some BBC contacts working out of the CBC office in New York who had expressed to them interest in their story before they left, they went on to say:

“Of course, this is contingent upon whether or not you should choose to say anything to the media on our behalf. We would hope that the public would have an opportunity for more thorough knowledge of who we are and what we’re about.”

Then in the letter to MRC/SRF from The Classes Pursers they said, “You are about to inherit what’s left of our purser task, to do with as you choose.”

They state what they would choose writing:

“We are arranging to get some funds to all of you (RKK, OSC & MRC/SRF) from what we have on hand, but we know that there is no way we can pay you for whatever efforts you may or may not choose to contribute in collecting our loose ends and (my upper case) DISSEMINATING INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED HERE.”

Then in the same letter under the heading, “Funds Which May Come In After We Leave,” they write, “We don’t know if you’ll actually be able to get any of these funds, but if it is possible, we’d like these funds to BE AVAILABLE TO THOSE WHO STILL SUPPORT THE CLASS AND WANT TO HELP GET OUR INFORMATION OUT.” (my capitalization)

If they wanted funds to be available to those who still support the class and want to help get our information out, wouldn’t they want those same people to have that information they wanted to get out to the world? I am one of them. Cathy is one of them. Carlan is one of them. Jhnody who was on the list is one of them. There are other new believers who have that same desire. The Class, nor DO ever said anything that can be taken as a limitation of who could “get their information out”. It’s even reiterated in Jwnody’s document, “Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure” that “getting the information out” was a task all returned Souls would receive and that included Souls that DO and the Class never got a chance to meet before they exited their vehicles.

“We are hoping that you will solicit help from Oscar (OSCODY), RKK, FLX/ABL, and others as you need it.”

Would “others” be limited to only the names mentioned? There is ample evidence that they were open to anyone helping with the “dissemination project”.

In other words these were the primary tasks they were given and they didn’t really do any of them and yet when I did these tasks they acted as if I didn’t have a task from the Next Level to do them and were even going against them. They clearly preferred they do these tasks but it was always their way for the 19 years I was in observance that they always gave us an out so it would always be our free will to exercise and that’s the part of the Letters they cite that they use to back up that they are doing the tasks DO gave to them and those options they have chosen actually go against what The Classes desires and wishes and hopes were.

Sure Mark and Sarah put up the website and supported it all these years but it went to their heads that only they could do that. If only they were to do that why did Rkkody and Oscody and Jhnody receive the code for the websites on diskettes as they stated in Letters (but didn’t reveal they had sent to Jhnody, so that may have come to them as a surprise when I included documentation that Jhnody had the website and masters of the Beyond Human Video series and Books in his Packages from DO and Crew. Perhaps that came by surprise when I presented to the court as part of my defense against Mark and Sarah’s lawsuit against me, that evidence that others were also given the same dissemination task.

Mark and Sarah also did publish the Book but in doing so changed the copyright DO and Crew had included for the Book eliminating the encouragement to copy parts of the book or in it’s entirety as long as didn’t add or take away from those parts and not do so for commercial purposes. They could have included both that common law copyright notification and the copyright to the TELAH Foundation they created after the Class left.

They also did a token sending out of video tapes and a tiny few audio tapes, except for doing the right thing and sending Jhnody some 80 audio cassettes with instructions to store them only. When he defied that order they freaked on him.

Even when they sent someone audio tapes 1 to 4 (probably at most which Cathy got) they stipulated that they were only for her personal use. DO never gave those kinds of limitations.

So my points here are to show that Mark and Sarah chose to do most everything their own way and that way ended up being in contradiction to the desires expressed over and over and over by DO and His Class and they seem to be blind to seeing this reality which is very sad.

And why is it that Mark includes this word “protect” as something “necessary” for him/them to do. Of course one would protect the “items of value” the Class wanted them to retrieve from Storage. Why wasn’t getting those “items of value” from Storage the first priority of tasks they were given which would automatically “protect” them from harm and keep them out of the governments hands. But instead they demanded Rkkody turn over to them the 200+ tapes he got from Storage while Oscody already had the remainder of what they got from Storage, over another 286 for a total of 486. Rkkody finally gave into them, knowing they were given the primary task to divide up those items of value but Rkkody was covering his bets, not knowing what Mark and Sarah would or would not do with the audio tapes, so he copied them and began to digitize and disseminate them as DO wished. I’m harping on this word because Mark and Sarah have harped on this word. In the Cease and Desist document they sprang on us at our in person meeting in November of 2021 at their lawyers office it talked about how they were guided to “protect” the information. They sent audio tapes to Jhnody for safe keeping in Venezuela. That’s all fine and well but what about protecting the information by putting it in thousands of hands who want it while also protecting it in other ways? One of the answers to that question I would propose was because if they felt their task was to protect it’s far less stressful than disseminating as there is no real interface needed to arrange ways to protect the information.

This is one of the points Mark and Sarah got very wrong. They weren’t left with the Groups “legacy” – They were given the task to disseminate that legacy of information to anyone that wanted to do the task of that dissemination. Mark and Sarah turned it into their own “kingdom” so that only they would be the disseminators and they alone would dictate who could receive what of that information left behind by TI and DO and Crew.

Interesting that Mark leaves out how he knew DO’s intention was that all their intellectual property be disseminated to those who would want it to learn about what the Class was all about. He and Sarah even showed evidence in a letter to Rkkody that they intended to disseminate that information at that time. But somehow when it came to the audio tapes, they did send some to Flxody/Ablody (Mark said, but don’t know how many) and sent 80 audio tape cassettes to Jhnody (Juan), aka Francisco. But they insisted on getting the audio tapes Rkkody retrieved from storage. Rkkody copied some 218 tapes and began to digitize them and then eventually did give the masters back to Mark and Sarah. That was a very smart move because all but that 218 tapes were never released to the public except some of them in very isolated circumstances and very cumbersome ways and they would stimulate that they were only to be for personal use when DO wanted them to be given to all those who were inclined to disseminate their information. Mark and Sarah did the very opposite of DO’s instructions.

Now their lives are being occupied with keeping TI and DO’s information away from people. Their fears are unfounded. Again, they could have trusted DO.

Mark and Sarah never have recognized that they could be wrong about the entire way they have been handling TI and DO’s information. That’s why they were instructed to leave the Group and yet they blame their leaving on Classmates somehow conning DO to send them away as if DO was weak and would ever allow Class members to influence him (much or temporarily) from what he knew TI would have him do.

Niklas:

The Heaven’s Gate website offers German translations of the two Recycling tapes from 1996. Coincidentally, Rkkody‘s letter from the Class includes a remark about a potential seeker from Germany – ‘Oscody is in contact with this individual and has offered housing for him at the Phoenix satellite.’

32. Mark:

– There was never any satellite in Phoenix other than what the Group set up with us in May 1996. The German’s name was Sören. He never made it to the United States; Oscody told us he’d offered to do some translations but lost interest after the incident.

32. Sawyer:

Perhaps Mark and Sarah didn’t know that DO and Crew, in Rkkody’s letter referred to Oscody’s apartment as the “Phoenix Satellite” where Soren from Germany could stay if he came here where he could also be given a car to use. Also Mark doesn’t know I guess that Soren did make it to the U.S. not too many years ago and met with Crlody (Carlan) and went back. He often used the name Nathaniel of late.

In one of the Letters to Mark and Sarah, Soren was mentioned as someone Oscody had offered to help with housing which would have made that location a Phoenix Satellite.

Niklas:

After arriving in Phoenix, Rkkody drove to Denver in the Lincoln Continental. On March 29, Oscody returned to San Diego to continue the storage room clearance. After collecting the Group’s Mazda MPV minivan from the airport, he found that an external party had placed a padlock on the door. An employee of the storage company had recognized Dstody – one of the departed – from a news report and then alerted law enforcement.

33. Mark:

– Rkkody updated the website as instructed but failed at everything else we asked him to do. He was unable to accomplish the task the Group had given him and then proceeded to go his own way. This refusal of his lost us the storage contents. It took us two years of fighting the San Diego County property system and cost us a lot of money in legal fees to get it all back.

33. Sawyer:

What a hell of a spin Mark is putting on what really happened that we have lots of evidence of. Rkkody was the hero in this though may have made some mistakes as he suggests in his manuscript but the mistakes Mark and Sarah made are huge in comparison.

For instances, when Mark and Sarah finally sat down to read the Letters they were sent, they could have told Rkkody when Rkkody called him the same day on the 25th what instructions they received and especially how DO’s Classmembers had mentioned using Rkkody. They could have immediately planned to all go to the airport to get the cars and to the storage near San Diego to get the contents of two storage rooms. But they said nothing so Rkkody didn’t know all of what he should have been told about until the morning of the 27th when Mark and Sarah turned over all their tasks DO hoped they would do, to Rkkody.

So when Rkkody and Oscody drove to San Diego area on March 26th 1997 to go to the house they could have gone having the instructions in hand with the Storage directions and codes and keys to cars and the truck to use to load up the contents of the two storage rooms as they Group had spelled out was their desire. But Mark and Sarah either didn’t read their letters or they just were frozen by influences from taking any actions hardly at all except to try to protect their own privacy that wasn’t even really in danger as they did nothing wrong.

For instance when Mark and Sarah met with Rkkody and Oscody in a parking lot in Phoenix on March 27, 1997 at about 7 AM according to Rkkody’s manuscript, they weren’t instructing Rkkody and Oscody to do anything.

This statement is a complete fabrication to remove all of their responsibility from what transpired and point it to Rkkody who isn’t here to defend himself and yet left us with a great detailed account of all he did upon getting his packets from the Group and seeking to coordinate with Mark and Sarah when they were hiding from doing anything. They caused Rkkody and Oscody to waste time and they are the prime reason they lost the contents of storage.

Mark and Sarah turned over letters they got from the Class that included the letter from pursers on how to handle PO Boxes and the cars and the truck to be used for storage. The Letters are very clear that Mark and Sarah were given the task to work with the others on the list and others wasn’t limited to those on the list to participate in the “dissemination”…”Project”. Sure DO indicated they could do the task as they saw fit and even not do it at all, but if they chose to do it then the task was outlined well by DO and Crew to retrieve all the items from storage and divide them among those who wanted to disseminate them and even do the same with any funds from the sale of some of the items to support that project.

Notice Mark and Sarah didn’t take any of the blame for what happened to where the lock was put on storage before all the items of value could be retrieved.

Mark and Sarah told us to our faces (Cathy and I) that they went to storage and the locks were already on them from the authorities. Mark admits Rkkody went to storage. If Mark and Sarah were giving Rkkody and Oscody the Storage retrieval task, why didn’t they agree on getting the truck first. Why didn’t they share with Rkkody all the instructions in the letters. I’m not saying Rkkody and Oscody bore no responsibility in how it all was handled and I’m not pretending I would have done a better job. They were under a lot of stress. Rkkody gives evidence of how paranoid Mark and Sarah and Oscody were that is very believable.

All the while Mark makes it sound like Rkkody botched it all up. This is very telling of exactly why Mark was sent out of the Class. Yes, the “I could be wrong” lesson step was not one he wanted to follow because he had come to trust his own mind over his Older Members Mind. From the time he and Sarah were instructed to leave the Class in 1987, they began to cease looking to DO’s Mind less and less according to DO in audio tapes from that period and instead looked to one another’s Mind. This isn’t from my Mind to say this. We have over 12 clips from audio tapes with DO talking about it even more directly than I am.

Plus we have in this interview a number of times Mark blames Classmates and DO for wronging sending him out of the Class as if he takes no responsibility for wanting to leave and not return. This article shows how braggadocios they have become. I can reveal a number of emails between he and I over years that shows how he thinks he’s the boss over everyone. That’s exactly what he was showing TI and DO and Class members even in 1982, the reason he was “muted” by TI and DO from running the show. The Next Level has no trail bosses (wagon masters). They operate in crews. There can be Primaries and Secondaries on tasks but others on the crew are also responsible to pull on how their Older Members would handle things and how to follow procedures. Without learning to follow procedures we are worthless to the Next Level Older Members as they will have to waste time correcting things we botch up because we don’t follow procedures. TI and DO talk about this extensively in audio tape 37 with Mark getting the brunt of the lesson. I suspect he almost always had a low opinion about Rkkody and yet DO said in some of the same audios where he talked about Mrcody/Srfody that Rkkody with his shortcomings was “in much better shape” than Mrc/Srf because he wanted to look to his Older Member’s Mind.

This is all further brought home by the fact that Mark and Sarah are suing me, and Cathy and Carlan (Crlody) for doing exactly what TI and DO have made it very, very clear by dozens of examples they wanted to see and expected to happen after they left – their audio tapes combed over by many people.

Could it be coincidence that Mark and Sarah are not spoken of highly by DO in a number of the audio tapes as the main reason they want us to stop playing them on my youtube.com live-stream? I asked Mark this very question and he denied it and then reprimanded me for even “wondering” about it as if it would be out of the question. Could it be that Influences have blinded him to this and other reasons they want to hide TI and DO’s information.

Niklas:

In early April 1997, Mars Media – the company hosting the Heaven’s Gate website – discovered that someone had hijacked the domain name and taken the site down.

34. Mark:

– Chris Milus of Mars Media always tried to help us and was as kind as he could be under the circumstances. Unfortunately, Rkkody had allowed someone to steal the URL and take the site offline. It had been down for days at that point, and this stretched into months. It was another case of Rkkody keeping the website away from the public through all of 1997, contrary to the instructions left by Do and the Class. It’s been alleged that the original website came back up in August 1997, but we’ve seen no indication of that.

34. Sawyer:

Mark says, “Unfortunately, Rkkody had allowed someone to steal the URL and take the site offline.”

In Rkkody’s manuscript, in Chapter 5 on page 17 he describes driving down to Phoenix from Flagstaff to meet with Mark and Sarah and Oscar (Oscody) after having met with another former student named Pypody, who by the way is still alive and I’ve been in touch with.

Rkkody writes, “During the drive down I got a call from Holly who was running the Internet site where Heaven’s Gate was hosted. Apparently, someone had re-directed the domain name to a non-existing address effectively confiscating our web site.”

So how can Mark blame Rkkody for allowing someone to “steal” the site? Even without Rkkody’s testimony through his book manuscript, what could he have done to cause the site to go down? He had no interest in the site going down. He didn’t build the site, the Class techs did. If I were a sleuth, to me Mark and Sarah did have interest in the site going down as they still had their address posted there and according to Rkkody’s manuscript still were stressing about it though most of the media had died down by this time. However, I don’t believe Mark and Sarah were behind the site going down either.

Why would Rkkody make this up. We have the letter from the Class to Rkkody that shows he was to be what amounts to be the primary on web site maintenance Rkkody reports that, “The group had about three different sites. Http:www.heavensgate.com, http:www.heavensgatetoo.com, and http:www.levelabovehuman.com and a site in Romania that was just being set up that we still do not have access to.”

Again, as we’ve now seen probably a dozen times, Mark exaggerates and makes statements of fact using inflammatory terms, like in this case, “steal” the site when there was nothing of the sort happening.

According to Rkkody’s manuscript, Holly and Chris said the site address was changed to a non working address so went dark and that there had been so much traffic that the server couldn’t handle it and they were installing another server to cover the load. Rkkody flew to Nashville and met with them personally over this.

After all it’s not like I haven’t seen this over and over and over. Like in the lawsuit Mark and Sarah claim I “stole” the audio tapes when they were gifted to me by Rkkody in 1997 and 1998 and then a bigger batch were gifted to me by Jhnody in 2021, which were gifted to Jhnody by Mark and Sarah over about a years time of sending him digitized versions. And the gifts from Rkkody were the digitized tapes he retrieved from Storage that DO and Crew wrote a letter to Mark and Sarah suggesting Rkkody and Oscody help with doing. So how in the world were they stolen by me. No one owned any of them. The Class left them as a gift to the world that Mark and Sarah were supposed to divide among those who were inclined to disseminate them to others. In a real sense they then stole them and used government to authenticate their theft by buying them off to get Consent Decrees. Mark and Sarah seem to care only about what the government says is right to do with the audios than what TI and DO and Crew intended.

As I’ve described before in this response to Mark’s interview but will repeat a number of times, the reason Rkkody had Mark and Sarah’s letters was because Mark and Sarah turned them over to Rkkody on March 27th morning before Rkkody and Oscody went to storage in San Diego. It’s just a sore point with me that Mark throws around that term. It seems like he’s trying to make Rkkody seem negligent and wants to make me look like a criminal because I accepted the gifts, which by the way I personally was in the Class to hear most of them and my voice and name can be heard in many of them to prove. It’s like trying to steal my family’s legacy.

Mark goes on to say here, “It was another case of Rkkody keeping the website away from the public through all of 1997, contrary to the instructions left by Do and the Class.”

This is pure misinformation. He may be putting this out on purpose, I don’t know but wouldn’t put it past him at this point given all the things he and his lawyers have done to Rkkody, Rkkody’s daughter, Crlody and now me and Cathy. Rkkody was front and center on all the tasks. When he called Chris and Holly on the morning of March 27th it was to change the address Mark and Sarah had called him about doing at about 3am that morning and that is when he found out that the site was down because of too much traffic to the site and that they were putting another server up to maintain the new traffic load.

Soon thereafter Rkkody put up one of the alternate sites to include Right to Know website that was purely packed with information that Rkkody had received directly from DO in addition to being sent the Book’s first edition and the website code and had retrieved the audio tapes from Storage and was duplicating the exit tapes to send to people. Rkkody was doing all anyone could imagine someone doing to take the bull by the horns of what DO and Class called the Dissemination Project while Mark and Sarah were cowering, afraid of the ramifications of people seeing their Postnet business address the Class had set up with them, with their agreement to put on the website (before they exited). They were the ones who were failing to provide TI and DO and Crews information to people, the opposite of what Rkkody was doing.

Then Mark says here: “It’s been alleged that the original website came back up in August 1997, but we’ve seen no indication of that.”

No indication of that, I guess means they weren’t checking or communicating with Rkkody much as according to Carlan (Crlody) who was working with Rkkody at that time, he recalls the heavensgate.com website coming back up around September of 1997, so Mark may be right in what he heard or didn’t actually remember. In either case that at the latest was September of 97 – 6 months after it went down and Mark admits that at some point he was managing Heavensgatetoo.com if I recall him saying, while Rkkody according to Carlan was managing Heavensgateto.com while heavensgate.com was down. So no one would have been missing out of seeing the Heaven’s gate website unless they stopped at not finding heavensgate.com up and running.

Niklas:

Mrcody’s letter mentions a Romanian internet service provider meant to function as a pre-paid online backup, should the main site be shut down or buckle under heavy traffic. The Class describes the ISP’s owner as an agreeable fellow – however, since he wasn’t quite aware of what manner of client he was dealing with, ‘We’re not sure what his response will be to this most recent event.’

35. Mark:

– He disappeared when the website crashed due to overuse, so we had to go to another server. We never heard from him or his organization So much for those payments.

35. Sawyer:

By the way, Rkkody received the bulk of the instructions related to the Romanian web site provider in two letters from DO and Crew by March 25, 1997.

Niklas:

To complicate matters further, TELAH Services – the business set up by the Group and transferred to Srfody and Mrcody – was still registered to Logan Lahson, known in the Class as Lggody. The state of Arizona would not allow for this to be changed; instead, the entity itself had to be renamed.

Sawyer:

I don’t know what documentation Mark and Sarah had that DO and Crew transferred Telah Services to them. If the really intended them to have it I would imagine they would have put it into motion before they left. I don’t know why Mark and Sarah had such a complication to moving their corporation to them. To date we have no documentation to support that the Group wanted that transfer to happen. Mark and Sarah have given me a whole lot of reasons to not trust they are acting on the up and up. Of course they never felt they had to prove anything to me. However now that they are suing me and Cathy and Carlan, what they have been saying and doing is under greater scrutiny

36. Mark:

– In May 1997, Srfody and I flew to Washington DC to speak with an IRS panel and get the appropriate changes to a 501(c)(3) organization done. It was an unusual board meeting of skeptical bureaucrats who later approved the new name: The Telah Foundation. Contrary to a rumor floated about this, no attorneys recommended these measures or were employed in the achievement thereof.

36. Sawyer:

I don’t believe much of anything Mark and Sarah say is true entirely as they have been operating using their own Minds verses TI and DO’s Minds for so long that they no longer seem to know the differences and don’t seem to remember certain things they did and why.

Like what were these IRS bureaucrats skeptical about, I wonder? Why did they have to fly to Washington DC to speak with an IRS panel? There are IRS people in every state. Why didn’t they just form a new non-profit corporation.

They said in #18 that “They turned the corporation over to us in May 1996; after that, we were asked to assist them with many things. We helped where we could, but safety for both parties was always in play.”

If The Class turned over the Telah Services corporation to Mark and Sarah why was it still registered to Logan Lahson (aka Lggody)?

DO and Crew did give them the task of dividing the contents of storage among those who wanted to disseminate their information. That didn’t require any legalities if they had gone to storage when they could have or told Rkkody and Oscody of the instructions before they went on March 26th.

I don’t know what they needed Telah Services for that the Classroom didn’t provide them with. In their letter from “Pursers” Mark and Sarah received on March 25, 1997 they wrote:

“We have only two bank accounts of possible interest to you – business accounts for Higher Source Contract Enterprises and TELAH Services.”

The same letter also said, “You can also use whatever is in the TELAH bank account, which we think is about $1430.”

So did The Class give them a way to access the TELAH bank account? Maybe whatever Mark and Sarah received in the so called, “transfer” of TELAH Services to Mark and Sarah would have been enough to access that bank account but then it seems they wanted to use Telah Services for more. My guess is that there were certain legal documents they wouldn’t have that they wanted to use to be able to prove they had the right to transfer copyrights the Group had in the name of TOA or Total Overcomers Anonymous or Total Overcomers Anonymous Monastery or Oliver Odinwood (who initially held the copyright for the paintings he painted that were listed as illustrations for The Meeting Screenplay and for his name also being on the copyright for the script for The Meeting itself without proof that they were TELAH Services. So perhaps that’s why they created sought a name change only to Telah Foundation and then proceeded to copyright 486 audios, Video tapes and The Book and certain pictures like the Away Team patch, the website Heaven’s Gate phrase and it’s use on patches, etc.

Cathy and I and Carlan in our defense and counter-suit against Mark and Sarah’s Telah Foundation and corporation they formed as “The Evolutionary Level Above Human, Inc.” they used to sue us, plan to demand their documentation in the upcoming Discovery part of the lawsuit (that Mark and Sarah had their lawyers tell the court they thought could be skipped).

Niklas:

Another rumor I came across is that Srfody had spoken to a fellow former student and been very upset, exclaiming, ‘How could they do this to us?’

37. Mark:

– No, Srfody stated nothing of the kind. She never implied that we were ‘wronged’ by the Group in any way. We’d been in training for ten months, between May 1996 to March 1997, to assume responsibility for tasks we were – and still are – honored to carry out. Those same former members have also alleged that we gave up on said tasks for a brief time; that is equally false. All the things our detractors indicate we’ve said or done could fill a book. They seem to take comfort in clinging tightly to their delusions. And once that pattern is set, they’d feel empty if any of it were to be explained to everyone’s satisfaction.

37. Sawyer:

I happen to probably be the source of said “rumor” of what Sarah (Srfody) said. It’s not something I made up. It came from Gnrody who was friends with Sarah. Gnrody and Rkkody had a relationship of some sort when Rkkody was outside the Classroom. Gnrody had a house in the Denver area. I don’t recall when they became room mates but I do know her from before I left the Class in 1994. I first met her in November of 1993 when DO had Jwnody and I set up and speak at a public meeting in Denver, in the Arapaho area. We stayed at Gnrody’s house up in Bloomfield, CO, where Rkkody had been living as well. That’s when Rkkody wanted to rejoin the Class again if he had the chance and when we all started the meetings in January of 1994, and on DO’s invitation he did rejoin us. He became one of the videographers of the group then.

Anyway, when Rkkody re-joined, Gnrody also joined us at DO’s invitation. It was a huge adjustment for anyone who had never been in the Class or even for someone who had once been in the Class but was out for years. We were a very tight knit crew by 1993. We had lots of procedures to follow and we loved the procedures but for a new comer to the Class, there was a great deal to come up to speed with to be able to become a working crew member. If someone wasn’t very flexible yet unable to adjust to the many procedures, they would become an interference. I don’t know why Gnrody didn’t stay very long. However, after I left I was in touch with her via email and on the phone a time or two. I became aware of the rift that had formed between Rkkody and Mark and Sarah. I have an email from Gnrody that calls out Mark for harassing her and Rkkody because Rkkody was doing what he felt to do with the audio tapes he retrieved from Storage. I was aware of this rift at the time but loosely as I wasn’t really engaged with the Class Info and what had occurred after their exit in any way until the early 2000’s but had contact with most long term former students.

I remember being on a telephone call with Gnrody after the Class left their human vehicles in 1997, when she out of the blue felt to tell me what Sarah had said to her that as best I can recall was, “how could they do this to us”, speaking about the Group’s exit and leaving the Postnet address they had agreed to monitor for the Group on the Heavens Gate website.

As we can see in this interview, Mark says many things that are phony, even outright deceit so his denial of what Gnrody said is unfortunately to be expected.

I’m not saying that if Sarah had said that, she is some terrible person. What makes for a terrible person is hiding things she did and appearing to be squeaky clean, which DO even can be heard addressing in audio tape 331.

Plus we have Rkkody’s manuscript that he had no reason to conjure up lies within. But it reveals how Mark and Sarah avoided like the plague doing any of the tasks their Letters from DO gave them, unless they could do things exactly their way, which they only arrived at after the main media had passed in 1997.

Someone who had absorbed Next Level behaviors and ways would be quick to admit their shortcomings. Rkkody demonstrated this big time in his manuscript. Sure humans will judge us but to us, we know that our only judge is DO and Ti and taking responsibility for our own less than Next Level behaviors and ways is part of being an active student of Next Level ways to embrace.

I trust Gnrody’s memory way more than Mark and Sarah’s. They put on the appearance of never having said or done anything wrong. Look at this interview where they blame DO for being influenced to send them out of the Class because of rumors from Classmates. Mark really demonstrates well that he hasn’t overcome his trust in his own mind over his Older Members. He has been caught in so many partial or total lies now he doesn’t seem to even know what is or isn’t actually true in many cases. One way it appears Mark shrewdly sows seeds of misinformation can be found in this statement, “She never implied that we were ‘wronged’ by the Group in any way.” Maybe she didn’t but he has. For instance at the meeting Cathy and I attended with Mark and Sarah and their lawyer, I asked them if they were in contact with Rio (Neody) and I think Mark said first, “No” and Sarah immediately chimed in with, “yes”. One of them was outright lying.

Niklas:

There are also claims that Mrcody believed himself in line to ‘make millions’ from their proprietorship of The Telah Foundation.

38. Mark:

– No, what I actually said was that a foolish lawyer had suggested that we could make a million – but we thought it would do nothing but cost us time and money. Funny how our detractors keep omitting the latter part. Their bitterness and hatred are not of the Next Level and never will be. We still nurture the hope that they will one day find it in their hearts to sincerely embrace kindness and understanding instead of this endless broken record of spiteful misconceptions. We believe it is tearing them apart and distancing them from the Next Level.

38. Sawyer:

In Rkkody’s manuscript he addresses the origin of this statement about the “million,” as he remembers it, as a first hand witness. In this quote TOM, (a pseudonym for the name of the lawyer Mark was working with that Rkkody said he first started a relationship with, to try to retrieve the contents of Storage that San Diego County had confiscated from Storage (MRC is short for Mrcody today known as Mark)):

“When we met at the Mexican restaurant only a week earlier MRC was saying that TOM wanted to form some kind of entity to be able to get all the rights to Heaven’s Gate stuff including copyrights on all the web pages and their logo’s etc. He said there can be 10’s of millions at stake.”

Even if Rkkody heard it differently than Mark, they both agree that the word “million” was used.

Sad how Mark projects his shortcomings on others as if there are not dozens of direct examples of their very poor behavior.

I didn’t know the last part until this interview because Mark is always so closed lip about most everything. I don’t care who is telling the truth. I just want to hear it. I guess Mark considers me one of his so called “detractors” yet he is the one who has been threatening me and now suing me for purely egotistical reasons that stifle TI and DO’s information getting to the public and has been saying things that are at times the opposite of what TI and DO clearly said. Since they do support the HeavensGate.com website, I feel it’s my task to be a check for them whether they want or value it or not because I don’t want someone to hear something from them and think that was from TI and DO’s Mind when they say so much that hardly is.

I don’t have bitterness or hatred feelings towards them. I’m glad they were awake enough that they got some tasks from DO and Crew before they left. I was very asleep in some ways during that time that they fault me for. Of course bitterness and hatred is not of the Next Level but their actions really speak for themselves in how they have showed those very same traits towards me as even shown in this interview that I have tried to address. Kindness and understanding has it’s value of course but when it comes to fulfilling the tasks DO gave all believers, new and old to share Their information with others, that is the kindest and most understanding thing we can do for another. And if there are misconceptions show us the evidence of such instead of being so darn general and hiding what they say they have to prove they were the only ones given the task to disseminate TI and DO’s information. I don’t care if they think they are the only ones to do that task. I know that I must share TI and DO’s information with anyone that shows some sign of wanting it. Rkkody, Crlody (Carlan) and Jhnody and others feel exactly the same way. Cathy who is a new believer feels exactly the same way. We can’t help but want to share the information but they don’t want us to. Doing all this so called infighting is something I dislike doing. I don’t want to talk about Mark and Sarah again but they are forcing it public by their direct actions trying to stop Cathy and I and Crlody (Carlan) and Jhnody and other new believers from that sharing. Sure we can talk about TI and DO from our knowledge of what’s posted in their book and website but why does it have to stop there and isn’t it better to have their exact words that even provide a more in depth understanding of what TI and DO were all about. They even stated that desire in one of the Letters to Mark and Sarah (MRC/SRF) and to Rkkody as well.

Mark’s opinion about who is distancing themselves from the Next Level is meaningless to me. He and Sarah at many times act like they can speak for TI and DO and these “emperors” have no clothes on in that regard.

Without drudging up the past, they are literally suing me for sharing TI and DO’s information with people freely, while they keep the tapes under lock and key almost entirely. Why don’t they want TI and DO who they say they honor, to have their voices heard? They insist that only they can share it and out of the other sides of their mouths suppress Their voices for 25 years. They persecuted Rkkody, then Crlody (Carlan) and then me for defying their false authority over TI and DO’s legacy. And now they even are going after new believer, Cathy with even totally easy to prove false accusations. Regardless of the outcome of the lawsuit they are, because of their relentless over lording requiring the whole truth to come out so it will probably become the source of a very detailed documentary.

The Mark and Sarah dynasty is falling again and this interview seems to be a meager attempt to preserve it’s deceitful ways they have no justification from TI and DO for.

People who hear this story to include their lawsuit they have filed, often think it is about money but I don’t think it is. It’s about their own sense of having received tasks from DO, understandably, but that they have mutated into additional tasks they had the option to exercise but would have had far less problems and wouldn’t have had to become overlords of the information deciding who can or can not have access to it and when and how much if at all. It seems evident from things they have said and/or written and/or had written on their behalf by lawyers that they want to be seen as the only Representatives of TI and DO and Crews Information they left behind but don’t want to be under fire for supporting it because of fearing some people might kill themselves because of the information. I can understand having to deal with that concern as I too have dealt with that concern but realized there were ways to legitimately talk about that while explaining and showing people how DO and Crew actually had a Position Against the S word of losing one’s vehicles life by their own hand. What is ironic about this position is that though they have expressed fear that innocent lives could be harmed by the information, they still have performed the task of providing the Heavensgate.com website that has lots of direct talk about the action they were about to take and why, though also includes talk of how exiting by one’s own hand for humans is useless because we humans all need our human vehicles to learn our many lessons through. The human kingdom was designed as the location where Spirits and Souls could grow by even outgrowing the human condition. That is a huge task and every human can benefit by applying the many lesson steps the Class provided their Students, but that to appeal to the Next Level means to do so to be of service to the most current Representatives from the Next Level who used vehicles they called TI and DO.

Here is part of the evidence of Mark and Sarah’s fears and how they felt the information should remain “confidential”:

This is a segment of the verbiage Mark and Sarah and/or Lawyers included in the Legal Agreement between The TELAH Foundation and Stephen *** A.K.A. Sawyer and Cathy *** and to provide a settlement of the Cease and Desist of 11/17/2021. Cathy and I received this as part of a long document that included many very dictatorial conditions upon which if we complied we could share some of the information with some people in some ways and would be punished if we broke the agreement. We didn’t even come close to signing it but what came from receiving it that Cathy was the broker of getting them to draft was seeing how far astray they have fallen from what TI and DO and Crews intentions were for what they called the “Dissemination Project”. Here is that one segment:

“8. CONFIDENTIAL NATURE OF MATERIAL. Telah and King are the protectors and guardians of the Material to prevent it from being misinterpreted or misused causing harm to innocent parties. Because of the sensitive nature of Material Telah and King have exercised to the best of their abilities all efforts to keep the material restricted and confidential. Recipients agree to continue keeping the Material confidential and to exercise their best efforts to prevent access to parts of said Material not agreed nor authorized by Telah and King and to exercise best efforts to prevent potentially damaging Material to be released to the public.”

Niklas:

In early May 1997, a former member called Jstody traveled to Mexico to procure phenobarbital for himself and Rkkody. Before springing into action, they recorded exit statements of their own and then sent them by post to family members and media outlets. If I’ve understood Jstody’s video correctly, he was not expecting an immediate reunion with the Away Team – which included Slvody, his wife from before the Class – but rather to be set up for incarnation into a future Classroom where he’d get another chance to graduate.

39. Mark:

– To exit was his choice; we knew nothing of what they were doing. But he’s not too far off with his exit statement – it’s called being ‘put on ice’. That is an option.

Niklas:

That reminds me of Srrody’s exit video, in which he directly addresses former Classmates. He urges them to rely on personal experience rather than media portrayals in how they should relate to the graduation event.

39. Sawyer:

I think what Mark means by saying, “That is an option” is that DO has said some may be “saved” – “put on ice”. DO said “ice” wasn’t meant to be literal. DO was speaking of the Soul. But this is one of many examples of in my opinion Mark not saying enough on the subject. It’s not exactly our option to take. It’s the Next Level’s judgment of what to do with our Soul when we leave these vehicles regardless of how and when and why we leave these vehicles.

According to Rkkody he spoke somewhat openly around Mark and Sarah and Oscody and Pypody and perhaps Rio (Neody) about his wanting to exit as the Group did. He even said about the subject, with specific reference to Sarah (Srf) that she seemed “very nervous” with the entire idea.

Here is what Rkkody says in his manuscript written about that time in March/April 1997:

“I felt like it is only a matter of time before I will be leaving my vehicle and trying to catch up with the other, yet I could tell that none of the ex-classmates I had been working with was thinking like that at all. It was a subject that made SRF very nervous and when I mentioned it to PYP his body language spoke loud and clear. In fact, there was only one person I ran into who was actually preparing for the time he could exit his vehicle. That was JSTODY. We both felt at the time that there was still things the Next Level might be able to take advantage of while we were still here and we did not want to leave without being sure that it was appropriate.”

Mark speaks of “them” which I’m pretty sure has to be Rkk and Jst and that “we” must refer to he and Sarah. Again, I know I could be wrong about this, but I don’t believe Mark, saying about them: “… we knew nothing of what they were doing”. It seems Rkkody thought they did know what Rkkody was thinking about self exiting. I don’t know if Mark was being literal by saying “we knew nothing of what they were DOING so to get out of admitting knowing what he/they were thinking.

Plus did he not watch the 60 Minutes broadcast of Sunday, March 30th, Easter Sunday that Jstody, his daughter Kelly and I did together with Leslie Stahl? In the segments, I recall Jstody saying he felt like he wanted to leave, how he missed the bus. From Rkkody’s manuscript days after Jstody and I were on that broadcast he was talking about exiting with Rkkody and even planning how and when.

re: what Mark says about Srrody, there is no evidence I can see that he was addressing “former classmates” at all. Here is his statement from the exit tape he and others made:

SRRODY: “But maybe on a more personal note, there’s a number of you out there that have probably been in contact with me personally, and a number of the classmates that you’ll be seeing on this tape. And, remember how you felt when we were there? Remember what it was like to work with us, and to be with us and you’d probably be better off trusting that rather than whatever information you run across on the TV. I’m sure there’s going to be some stuff to come out about this that can’t get the perspective that you had, so trust your own feeling rather than what you hear from someone else. That would be my primary advice to you.”

Srr said, “…have probably been in contact with me personally, and a number of the classmates that you’ll be seeing on this tape”

Former Classmates haven’t “probably been in contact with [him] personally, they definitely had contact with him, as I did over years. Plus do former classmates have to be reminded what “it was like to work with [them] and trusting that rather than whatever information [they’d] run across on the TV? I know what I experienced in the Classroom and with whom, though yes I can forget certain things but not things like what I felt about certain classmates. I for one know well that the media knows next to nothing about what really happened there. I’m not alone in that. I believe Srrody was talking to some individuals who he and other classmates had been working with at their company Higher Source and in other Out of Craft tasks (jobs in the world) and perhaps in other capacities.

I’m providing the text so that what Mark says, for those who read his article don’t assume he is expressing things that were actually said. It seems his memory on many things has been skewed. I know this can and does happen to all of us, so in this case it’s good for me to be a check on this, the same things I would like from others if I quote TI and DO and Crew and get it wrong as it appears has happened in this case with him re: what Srrody said.

Also, re: “being ‘put on ice’,” yes DO said this but he also said that wasn’t literal ice. I think adding these words is important so people don’t misunderstand His use of terms/phrases. TI and DO talked about this kind of thing in an audio tape re: leaving written things behind for humans to read, to clarify our terminology.

To me it’s sloppy to not say more and to me Mark and Sarah have done this many times over the years. I’m accused of saying too much and I’m sure at times I do, but DO and Class members were on the wordy side when it came to speaking to the public so why not err in giving them more details and examples rather than less.

But also there are no guarantees and being put on ice, or “saved” from the recycling, leaving the planet with DO, in his keeping and even so if one goes against DO’s wishes they will still be inclined to be against his wishes after they exit the current vehicle. With some overcoming of human behaviors and ways, when what we do effects only us it’s not as serious as causing more difficultly for others. I think this applies a lot more when we lead people astray with mis or disinformation and literally go against DO. Then we may be putting huge distance between us and DO, so much so that we could lose recognizing him as our Older Member. Mark and Sarah appear to be treading on that kind of thin ice. Mark shows it in his responses in this article by blaming classmates passing on rumors to DO that somehow resulted in DO sending him and Sarah out of the Class because of. For Mark to say this shows lack of looking to DO as his Older Member, treating him the way a human might treat an employer as fallible. It’s not that DO can’t make mistakes but DO was not a human mind in a human vehicle. He is a Older Member Next Level Above Human Mind using a human vehicle he made obedient to his Next Level Mind. Thus he treated everything he thought, said and did very, very carefully and was constantly checking with his connection to TI, his Older Member on how to think, speak and act, not trusting he could get it right. So Mark’s being sent out of the Class was TI sending Mark out of the Class, as well as DO doing so. If Mark sees this he’s not expressing it and perhaps he should when/if he becomes aware of this as he may not be aware that his words spell this thinking out.

40. Mark:

– The option was given to all former students within a short window of time; only a few took advantage of it. The two of us had our tasks to do and feel confident we’ll be taken care of. But we don’t know exactly what the future holds. Since the next opportunity may be a long way off, it is possible that we will also be put on ice. Most likely, many Classmates are in the same position.

40. Sawyer:

If Mark and Sarah felt the call to exit the way they did, then they could have performed the short term tasks and passed on the tasks that could exist for a long time, to someone else. I’m not trying to say DO thought they were ready to leave as for some dropouts they could have needed the lessons they would get by staying in their human vehicles.

If they had felt to leave like occurred to Rkkody and Jstody and later Oscody, they could have stayed around to perform the essential tasks. They could have gone to Storage and retrieved it’s contents and the cars that were parked at the San Diego airport and regarding the “items of value…” in storage, namely the 1061 (according to Mark) audio meeting tapes, “that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information” which is the wording in the letter to Mark and Sarah from DO and Crew.

Rkkody was a great example of performing tasks he was given and then leaving, which it seems to me he failed at his first attempt because DO and Crew wanted him to do more for them by staying longer and then they let him leave.

In Rkkody’s manuscript he talks about how he and Oscody felt to exit but didn’t want to exit too soon, thinking about whether DO might have them do certain tasks before they left. DO in his letter to Rkkody also extended the same option to him as he did to MRC/SRF and JHN, to choose from all the options.

For Rkkody the task he was given by DO involved helping Mark and Sarah with sending the letter to SAM (since it had Rkkody’s name on it, with Mark and Sarah’s), posting certain documents on the web sites, helping Mark and Sarah, if asked to retrieve the contents of Storage, participate in the “Dissemination Project” they wanted all to do, even people not named in the letters. (See Jwnody’s document, Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure).

Oscody was given at least one task to register the book with the Library of Congress. (I don’t know how much he participated in that before Mark and Sarah took over that task but he laid down his human vehicle right around the year 2000 if I recall.

I didn’t get a Letter because I think, on the two or more occasions where DO was seeking to learn about where my head was at, I didn’t seek service but wanted to do what I was doing with raising my daughter (soon to born in July of 1997).

However, despite how Mark portrays me as being engulfed in humanness, I mustered the strength and conviction to put myself in the spot light of the media with my face to Stand Up for TI and DO. Some may think I was wanting that attention but I was actually quite afraid at first because I didn’t want reporters at my doorstep in Carmel, NY where I lived at the time. But I felt I needed to tell what I knew since I knew I knew a great deal from 19 years with TI and DO. I always had completely positive things to say about TI and DO. I called Time and Newsweek magazines with my story from a phone booth and met them at a restaurant individually to give them each an interview. Then Jstody called me and invited me to go on 60 Minutes with him which I knew I had to accept and did a bunch of media with him in the NYC area before and after Easter Sunday of 1997. I showed my face all along for years because I wanted people to know who was talking. Sometimes that wasn’t a positive out among the public but by in large it wasn’t more of a negative than I could handle.

I didn’t feel to exit and had no specific tasks nor a letter from DO and Crew. I was in touch with Rkkody, Mrcody and Srfody and many other former Classmates. Mark/Sarah sent me a case or two of the Heaven’s Gate Books they brought to print/publication which was also part of their task to do with maintaining the website.

However, there is no evidence at all that DO wanted them to convert the few tasks into mega tasks, expanding their instructions to include preserving the audios with water marks for some crazy reason. (I have no problem with their doing that and would share the tapes they make if that would make them happy but that won’t make them happy.)

Had Mark and Sarah acted quickly they would have never needed to engage with lawyers to get the materials back from San Diego County. DO expressed that he didn’t even want them to try to get the things that were in the mansion, yet they did, thinking (as I saw reported) that to auction them off would be dishonoring the memory of the Classmates. I believe the court document or a reported quoted Mark said was something like he wished to preserve their memory “with dignity” and selling their personal affects threatened that he/they thought. Perhaps that was misquoting Mark but it sounds like something Mark would say.

What Mark appears to be missing here is that the “next opportunity” isn’t far off, it’s now, not just for him but for everyone. When he tells people there is “nothing to do” but study the information to be ready for DO’s return in some thousands of years when they will reincarnate then, he is misleading people to treat the current opportunity lightly. It seems he’s so afraid that someone might kill themselves or something, though there is no evidence of anyone doing that because of Heaven’s Gate for over 20+ years and no doubt we would have heard about it.

After all there is a reason DO and Crew used the headline to a document posted on their website up front entitled, “Our Position Against Suicide”. They were against human suicide and what I might call Soul suicide. They knew we each needed our human vehicles to learn the lessons we needed to learn that could only be learned while in a human vehicle. DO even said that some who laid down their vehicles lives with him would need to return to a human condition to finish their overcoming of humanness. Who knows when that would occur. However, there was still a great value to being willing to exit in any way the Next Level through their Older Members whom we as any student recognizes to be DO and Ti.

DO never closed the “Gate” but he was very clear that there were Three Types of people who would survive the recycling, speaking of Souls in vehicles.

1) those who were with him graduating to their next best station and being rewarded with significant Next Level tasks.

2) People who recognized DO as their Older Member but had weaknesses

3) Those who might not even have heard about TI and DO but were separating from the world in their own ways.

We need our human vehicles to learn our lessons to grow closer to Next Level graduation to whatever is our next best step by the Next Level’s determination of our efforts.

Niklas:

On May 6, 1997, Jstody and Rkkody donned the Away Team uniforms, ingested large quantities of phenobarbital, and pulled plastic bags over their heads. Meanwhile, CNN and CBS News had received the farewell tapes and notified authorities. Investigators contacted Rkkody’s daughter, who had just opened an envelope containing a tape of her own. She told police that her father was likely somewhere in San Diego, close to the Group’s compound. After checking motels in the vicinity, law enforcement discovered that the two men had booked room 222 of the Holiday Inn Express in Encinitas, a community adjacent to Rancho Santa Fe. When the first responders arrived, Jstody had already died. Rkkody was in critical condition; he had instinctively torn off the plastic bag before suffocating. Unlike the Class, he drank no vodka to boost the medication, so the dosage proved insufficient to kill him. Rkkody woke up chained to a hospital bed. A few months later, in February 1998, he drove out into the Arizona desert. This time he succeeded.

41. Mark:

– We finally found out that Rkkody had gotten the domain back and given it to his daughter before he died. It was being held in Mexico. We paid a lawyer to take them to court and after a fight, we got it back. The daughter in question has still not complied with the other terms of that settlement, and she should. The website went back up immediately in early 1998. Until then, we’d been using the Group’s other domains, such as heavensgatetoo.com.

41. Sawyer:

I don’t know when Rkkody got back the website from it’s being hacked. Crlody who worked with Rkkody and was with Rkkody then said he thought it was September of 1997 when they got the Heavensgate.com website back up.

What I do know is that DO and Crew prepared well for this event of their exit to include sending the website to Rkkody, and Jhnody, Mark and Sarah and as I understand it to Oscody and Chris and Holly as site hosts and to a Romanian ISP who I don’t know ever put it up. Rkkody was given the lead task in making changes to the website and also received instructions directly from DO on some documents to post on it in addition to his Right to Know website DO had him set up a PO Box for where DO sent Rkkody a Fed X with paperwork for the Truck.

By the time Rkkody left, he had been so harassed by Mark and Sarah that he was like I am now, suspicious of everything Mark and Sarah say and do, with a lot of evidence that shows such suspicions are justified. I have a letter from Rkkody’s daughter from 1997 that tells of how Mark and Sarah were threatening her with the loss of her house if she didn’t give the website back to them. That reminds me of how Mark threatened me and those who are friends on my Facebook page sawyer.heavensgate with $100’s of thousands of dollars of fines for using or transcribing or copying or distributing the audio tapes I had just received from Jhnody who received them from Mark and Sarah.

Niklas:

The Heaven’s Gate anthology, How and When “Heaven’s Gate” May Be Entered, was treated to a posthumous release by Wild Flower Press on March 1, 1998. My impression is that this was not a hugely lucrative venture.

42. Mark:

– We had to pay cash to get the final version printed; it cost us a lot of money. The publisher did his job but became disillusioned when no one wanted to buy the book. Ultimately, before he threw them all away, we got him to ship the remaining copies to us. We’ve been selling them one by one – at the mere cost of our production expenses – over the past two decades.

42. Sawyer:

Mark fails to say that he and Sarah received at least $10,000.00 directly from the Group upon their exit and/or may have retrieved more from unpaid accounts receivable they were given to be the recipients of, which was all to help them and others be able to perform the Dissemination Project. Instead they blew it on lawyers, though I don’t take away from them that they have paid for the heavensgate.com website to be up and running all these years. However when they clearly weren’t doing much at all of the dissemination project I offered to take over the website because others who believed in TI and DO AND were doing the largest portion of the Dissemination Project. Rkkody even bridged the gap of the tasks Mark and Sarah were hoped to perform by doing things himself. Rkkody also received $10,000.00 and so did Oscody as I understand it from Crlody who worked directly with Rkkody in 1997.

If Mark and Sarah had read their Letters from DO and Crew on March 25 when they received them and then compared notes with what it said in the Letters to Rkkody and others they would have stopped Rkkody and Oscody from going to the mansion so fast on March 26th without taking with them those instructions that included the means of retrieving the cars from the airport and the truck from one storage location and the contents of two storage lockers where the tapes were.

Niklas:

After first suing the County of San Diego Property Group in April 1997, Mrcody and Srfody made it into court by the end of 1998.

43. Mark:

– It took the designated Special Master two years to realize he wasn’t going to shake us. Finally, after about $325,000 in total costs, we got a settlement of all the Group’s intellectual property. Not only did we receive the videotapes and the balance of audio recordings, writings, and patches, but we got all the important items from the storage locker and the house. That’s how we acquired items even Do never expected us to get. Our settlement with San Diego County included all the Group’s financial records, logs, and items from the house, as well as Do’s bed and nightstands along with all of his books. We purchased the camera they filmed everything on, and all the tapes associated with it. We still use that camera. Through the auction, the public got the cars, clothes, kitchen items, and laundry goods. They got the bunk beds because we did not want them. Anyone claiming to have original patches, purple shrouds, or other items of that exit is mistaken. Remember, San Diego County incinerated the mattresses, bedding, shrouds, shoes, clothing, and anything else that touched their bodies. The county even provided us with the police case files – perhaps by mistake? – so we got their correspondence with the families and the real stories of what they thought of us.

43. Sawyer:

If Mark and Sarah had organized and spoke to Rkkody and Oscody and perhaps Neody (Rio) starting even on March 25th knowing DO’s hopes for their performing a variety of tasks, they would have retrieved all the cars, the truck and all the contents of two storage rooms. Because of their failure they did seem to have had to hire lawyers to sue San Diego County to then get at least the contents of the two Storage Rooms and/or all the other items.

DO said in the letters and in the letter Mark and Sarah received to send to SAM, the owner of the Rio Rancho Santa Fe house they lived in to not seek to have the items in the mansion yet Mark and Sarah sought to have it all. Mark even admits here that DO didn’t expect them to get certain items. DO also knew the house may be made into a shrine.

Yes, they got a settlement but that was only because Judge Lisa Guy Schall didn’t want to prolong the families getting some funds to resolve the estates of the Classmembers. She could have held out because her first ruling was that Mark and Sarah didn’t show her (the court) anything that showed the Group intended them to be more than “distributors” of the Intellectual property. In fact if they try to sell any of what they received they could be prosecuted in breaking that decision, which may have something to do with their trying to stop anyone else from selling certain items with the Groups artwork, etc.

Note they only got the “balance of audio recordings”. Rkkody retrieved with Oscody 486 audio tapes and split them with Oscody. Then Rkkody with help from Crlody at some point, copied them and digitized them and sent them to people including me. I’m being sued by Mark and Sarah for playing for free some audio tapes of TI and DO on my YouTube channel: 3spm and Cathy, my partner is also included in the lawsuit as well as Crlody even though they don’t have a consent decree that names each of the audio tapes that we were playing as among the 1061 audio tapes.

Rkkody while he was in the Classroom in 1994 had his own camera and DO had him travel with groups who were putting on meetings and film whatever he felt to. I believe Rkkody left that film with his daughter. It includes film of the Chicago meeting, an interview in a Portland Radio Station and from the Missoula, Montana meeting, all of which include me in. I believe he had other footage when he was assigned by DO to switch groups then. My understanding is that Neody (Rio) also had a camera then. I don’t know what footage Rio has. So I consider that part of the footage of the Class since some of the graduates were in the footage Rkkody and presumably Neody took.

As far as Mark having also bought from San Diego County in the Settlement, “all the tapes associated with it [the camera]” why is it that only the media get to see those tapes? Like the tape of the Classes visit to Gold Beach, OR. If that was among the “items of value” in the Storage Room that they said Mark and Sarah could divided among those inclined to disseminate their information, who has Mark and Sarah given them to. I’m not saying I want the originals but Crlody and I and now Cathy have been among some of the biggest disseminators of Their information, so give us copies of those tapes or post them somewhere so anyone could have them instead of hording them thinking that they are meant to be the only ones to see them unless they give them to someone else to see.

I’m glad Mark and Sarah received, “real stories of what they thought of us” but if by saying “real” he is implying that what I have said about them from my personal experience with them and from being in the Class when they were sent out of the Class isn’t real, then once again they are puffing themselves up which they don’t need to do as there is no embarrassment in revealing the facts of their leaving the Class rather than make stuff up as they have been doing or just ignoring those facts. Also by saying that they are sort of prodding me to compile all the statements from DO in the audio tapes to show what all DO said over the years in his attempted communication with them.

I have held back from doing that for years. I didn’t hardly talk about the circumstances of their being sent out of the Class for years until they gave an interview with Gizmodo and made up a totally fabricated story when asked. That was misinformation from my recollection as a first hand witness that I can prove being present during and can prove DO talked about quite a bit in audio tapes made after they left.

I don’t know if Mark knows if some clothing and/or shoes that was in travel bags or in dresser draws that wasn’t incinerated. It’s also possible they had a shroud for Neody (Rio) but didn’t need to use it since Rio left about 2 weeks before they exited.

Niklas:

Do you mean the county’s correspondence with the families?

44. Mark:

– Yes. The county employees were very frank about what they thought of us. We were considered ‘the enemy’, and they indicated that we’d stopped the auction of goods meant to pay for the family members’ funerals. As if we owed them that. When we put a stop to this in court, their anger level increased and they got the families even more riled up. Once we had received what was due to us, as mandated by a court of law, they blamed us for the low turnout at their auction and the meager amount of dollars it brought in. They had illegally secured items from the storage, and we had to get it all back. Which we did, to great cost out of our own pocket. We have not received any payments other than the production cost of the book. The total expenses of all court cases, production costs, legal issues, etc is now over $500,000. But we had to do what was right and necessary to make the Next Level information available to the world.

44. Sawyer:

Wow, yet another of many spins. In fact I have Judge Lisa Guy Schall’s two decisions In the first decision, she found no evidence that Mark and Sarah had any legal right to any of the Groups property. Mark and Sarah were fined about $4000.00 for filing a “frivolous lawsuit” that may not have included paying for San Diego’s lawyer expenses.

I remind that had they acted quickly, even as quickly as Rkkody and Oscody acted and/or had they informed Rkkody and Oscody of the Groups intention of their Letters instructing them and Rkkody and Oscody’s and others retrieving all the cars, the truck and all the contents of two storage rooms, then they would have had no legal expenses at all. However since they failed at acting quickly and caused delays of even Rkkody and Oscody even knowing about the Storage Rooms, when the locks got put on the two storage rooms by San Diego county around March 28th or so, then it became necessary to enlist lawyers to try to get at least the intellectual property found in one of the storage rooms.

Mark says certain items were “due to them,” and yes, DO did hope they would retrieve items in one or two storage rooms, which like I just said, they failed to do. But DO didn’t expect them to get anything from the Mansion. He and His crew said as much in at least two Letters so Mark and Sarah were again off track by including trying to get all the possessions the group had.

Mark is saying that what was “due to us, as mandated by a court of law”, as if that court was an authority over who got that material and as if that court gave them the authority to then lord over the materials and covet the 1061 audio tapes and prosecute those who denied they (Mark and Sarah) were following what DO and TI hoped they would do in the “dissemination project”.

They didn’t “put a stop to this in court,” they simply threatened to drag on the proceeding for more and more time and families of the deceased should have received some of those items to retrieve burial costs. The Class didn’t think Mark and Sarah should have anything but the things in the one or two storage rooms, to divide among those who were inclined to disseminate their information and/or to sell for funds to support the dissemination project and that Mark and Sarah have all but hidden away.

Mark says, speaking of the county that “they had illegally secured items from the storage and we had to get it all back” yet it was Mark and Sarah that didn’t lift a finger to get those items out of storage when they had the time to do so, which they had plenty of time, (days) to do before San Diego found the storage rooms and put their own locks on the doors. They seem to take no responsibility for what happened when it was all their responsibility

Then Mark says, they “had to do what was right and necessary to make the Next Level information available to the world.” Isn’t that ironic in a very sad kind of way that they did just the opposite. The website and the Heaven’s Gate Book posted on the website was already available to the world through Rkkody and anyone else who was sharing it. They ended up with one of those three near duplicate web sites. Others like Rkkody and Jhnody and Flxody/Ablody and perhaps others received the Beyond Human Video Tape series and since I was sent them by Mark and Sarah (before they disagreed with how I chose to disseminate the information) and that Carlan was providing to people that Rkkody had been sending out to me and others all along. Those tapes were uploaded to a YouTube channel called Heavensgatedatabase.

So the only items of value that was possible of being provided by them they didn’t provide, namely the 1061 audio meeting tapes. Carlan and myself were doing most of that provision to people and they were dead set against our doing so but as Mark told Cathy and I, they “let it slide” which they also knew that Carlan had been posting the audios Rkkody retrieved from storage on a site called 4shared.com for free download since 2009 or so. They knew about that site I’m sure but “let is slide” even though they had a copyright on those tapes we think but don’t know for sure since they never told anyone what they had copyrighted. (By the way their copyrights may have been obtained illegally which we will fight out in court).

So they provided next to nothing to the world, except for the web site and some video’s, some of the same info others were circulating. Yes, they did have to go to court to retrieve the items of value in storage but that was because of their failure, theirs and no one elses.

Plus, what Mark is also not telling, is that they threatened to appeal Judge Lisa Guy Schall decision to not award them with anything and what the judge then said in her next opinion was that for the benefit of all involved, keeping mind of many bereaved families she decided to seek a settlement. So the county got a number of the groups cars left for former students to use, sell or give away but to use any proceeds for the dissemination project. Rkkody wrote about how Mark and Sarah were listening to a lawyer re: giving the truck to a nursing home as a show to the judge that they were good people. However, DO did suggest giving it to a nursing home but Rkkody wanted to sell it and use the funds to disseminate the information, as DO spoke about as a type of priority. Instead the vehicles were used to in a sense bribe the Judge to give them some of the possessions of the Group. The Judge also got about $2000.00 from Mark and Sarah as well and they agreed not to sell any of the items.

So they got a Consent Decree to possess the contents of storage that contained the balance of audio tapes the group had since Rkkody had retrieved some 486 before then and other of the storage content. Then they used that decree to get another Consent Decree to win against Kathy (Rkkody’s daughter) to get the Heavensgate.com website because Rkkody left it to Kathy because he was choosing to exit his vehicle and he no longer trusted Mark and Sarah would do what DO and Crew wished for it. Mark and Sarah won because Kathy had no money to fight against lawyers and the previous consent decree and they were threatening Kathy with her losing her house if they didn’t get what they wanted.

I think DO would have intended Mark and Sarah to have the website, but don’t think they handled it as DO would have hoped, yet that was their test and DO is their judge. However, we can judge the things they say to people who come to the website who come to me (and told Cathy in emails) and tell me how little they helped them and told them things that were anti what DO taught.

For instance, Mark and/or Sarah told Cathy in at least one email that there was nothing to do but study the information to be ready to reincarnate some thousands of years from now when DO returns. This is anti DO’s teachings as he said the gate was still open. He wasn’t promoting suicide though for some that would have been an acceptable way to choose to exit. But for people who never personally knew, though there could be a rare exception, the method was to “get their information out” and be willing to Stand in Their Defense, their being from the Creators Kingdom that created the earth and all it’s inhabitants. This is spelled out in several ways in the document on the Heavensgate.com website in the article written by DO’s trusted servant Jwnody, named, “Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure”. There are many other documents that talk about being against human suicide because we need these vehicles to learn lessons through.

Also in their lawsuit against Rkkody’s company Right to Know and his Daughter, they also won the Heavensgate.com website and copies of the Groups Book (they never collected) and sought to stop the selling of Heavens Gate, Ollody’s (Oliver Odinwood’s) artwork on mugs, t shirts, etc. which Rkkody only did so he could keep giving away tapes and Cd’s with the Heavens Gate Information on them, not a bad way to fund the effort.

That’s part of what enabled Mark and Sarah to think they were to be on control of all the information to an uncanny degree of limiting who could hear the audio tapes, even though DO didn’t give them that kind of task. DO only gave them the task of dividing the materials among those who wanted to disseminate their information, yet they distorted that into becoming their own little empire to where they are doing the opposite seeking to stop me and Cathy and Carlan and Jhnody from disseminating the information as if that wasn’t our task to do, the task of any believer to do. They told Cathy and I in person that they didn’t understand why what they were doing to disseminate the information was enough, when that is completely missing the point of the dissemination project as it was any new believers way of working for the Next Level rather than letting some hierarchy do that work. It’s the same way the Lower Forces sought to take over the Jesus records and did though the Catholic church and later other sects who even persecuted so called lay people who began sharing their interpretations with others. The clergy thought they were only qualified to teach/instruct and interpret things when they many times were distorting and diluting the meaning of Jesus teachings. I have many, many examples now of things they have said to interviewers that are doing the same kinds of things, diluting and distorting what TI and DO taught, coming up with their own interpretations and treating people as “swine”, they don’t feel are worthy of having and sharing the information, telling them when they allowed some to have a few of the 1061 audio tapes that it’s only for personal use and not to be given to anyone else. And to put the icing on that cake they have baked, they are suing me and threatening to sue anyone who disobeys their edict.

Niklas:

Most accounts I’ve read from outsiders who dealt with Classmates in person have been consistent about them coming across as relatively ‘normal’. A May 1997 Seattle Times article quotes a spokeswoman from Interact Entertainment Group who describes the Higher Source consultants they hired as ‘strict in diet and dress’ but with ‘a good sense of humor’ and being ‘exceptionally smart’. In the discourse surrounding Heaven’s Gate, there is much talk of ‘brainwashing’. Students are portrayed as some manner of hypnotized victims spellbound by a charismatic leader. Ben Zeller – whose writings are a must-read for anyone who wants to understand Heaven’s Gate – disagrees. He argues that, rather than mindless cultists, the members were devoted religious adherents. Bearing this in mind, it’s interesting to observe how both HBO’s Heaven’s Gate: The Cult of Cults and an ambitious podcast series I listened to feature Zeller heavily in the historical segments yet omit his views on brainwashing. Instead, these analyses are provided by a colorful cast of characters who all appear to be occupational anti-cult entrepreneurs with only rudimentary knowledge about Heaven’s Gate.

45. Mark:

– Ben Zeller has demonstrated a tendency to rely on a more studied model of careful analysis and educated background, resulting in an independent point of view and objective reasoning to back up his studies. Documentary producers inevitably want less thorough examinations in favor of provocative quips and vapid statements. Accordingly, they often turn to a second or third tier of people in the field – alleged ‘cult experts’ who possess neither the credentials nor the logic required.

45. Sawyer:

It was Ben Zeller who sent me his first book’s manuscript on the Heavens Gate story to comment, which I did. I’m not sure he used much if any of what I said about it. For the Heavens Gate podcast by Pineapple Street Media he worked with that team to develop the 10 series podcasts that was quite instrumental to provide more of a look at the students in particular by playing a clip of the audio part of the video of The Class singing.

After that series had been very successful on iTunes, Ben Zeller invited me to join him and Anne Hepperman, the Director of the Heaven’s Gate Podcast, (who interviewed me at their Brooklyn Office and then came to my house in Vermont to get a more in depth interview) at the annual conference of the American Academy of Religion in Denver in 2018, I think it was, that Ben was a member of.

Anne and Ben knew that I was not happy with the way Terrie Nettles and Frank (Andody) portrayed both TI and DO as hypocrites. Anne wasn’t the writer so she had limited influence on the script and what was used from the interviews she provided the show. They didn’t give me any time to provide some explanation to the claims that TI was a hypocrite for writing letters to her vehicle’s daughter Terrie over the years TI and DO’s students weren’t permitted to write letters (though there were a few exceptions to that).

For me, I believed in TI and DO’s program of wiping out the past to begin to become a new creature. I had no strong ties to anyone in my past at the time so it was relatively easy for me to no longer relate to my vehicle’s family. After all I’d been living in British Columbia, Canada, near Clear water and then in Newport, Siletz and Waldport Oregon for nearly 4 years while my family was in New York where this vehicle of mine grew up and I was only occasionally calling or writing them, though I did visit them in the summer of 1975 before I joined with TI and DO.

But that was the program. I didn’t have to abide by the program. For the first 9 months in the group there were plenty of opportunities to contact family as it was the honor system whether someone separated from those ties or not.

But the report from Terrie because of one tiny sentence I believe she misinterpreted into thinking TI was looking for a way out of the group, yet she didn’t seem to have a clue I guess to who TI, The Soul was and how She was actually the greater driving force to help DO awaken – but then they were both equally that same driving force to fulfill the tasks they realized they were sent to do that in their design DO was to complete after TI left. We didn’t know in the Classroom that that was actually part of the design for TI (The Father, DO’s Older Member aka Heavenly Father, Jehovah and Elohim) to leave the task ahead of DO as even shown in Revelation 12:

Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

The Flood is the vast negativity TI was at the helm of the task to receive and deal with for their first 10 years together. The saying, “the earth opened her mouth” was a way people spoke of someone going into the grave. In other words the death and leaving behind of her vehicle.

In the next verse…

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

…the Woman’s (TI’s Soul’s) seed continues and DO who TI graduated into The Next Level Above Human Membership was her seed and those who had the testimony of Jesus were The Students’ Souls about 4000 years ago with Moses (DO) who upheld “the commandments of God” and then some 2000 years ago upheld “the testimony of Jesus Christ” (also DO’s Soul’s).

I mean, say you were a student and entered into a university to study chemistry and the professor gave a lesson on completing an experiment. The professor might know of a number of ways to complete that same experiment but knows the Student needs to learn one of those primary ways of performing the experiment that even includes learning to follow instructions – a critical lesson to learn in any laboratory or for any team or crew. The student also needs to receive the instructions to prove to the Professor they can follow instructions as that might end up being a life and death situation if they don’t. The Student doesn’t design the program. We students didn’t have anything to do with the design of the experiment/program to outgrow and overcome our humanness. I knew from the start that TI and DO were exactly who they said they were and thus to me their instructions were exactly what I wanted to do, though I did have my weaknesses. TI didn’t need to follow the drop the past guideline as we did yet she did by separating from Terrie, her vehicle’s husband and her other three children. But TI felt to keep Terrie abreast of some of what she was thinking and felt to help Terrie (and Joey, her vehicles son) with a small amount of financial help as well, what added up to about $600.00 I believe Terrie reported.

Furthermore when TI did instigate our visiting our human families in 1985, the task was described primarily as relieving their anxiety about our absence from their lives. As it turned out it was also a test of our own commitment to TI and DO. TI wrote letters to Terrie and sent her some funds for several reasons. One was to relieve her anxiety at her mothers absence from her life. But also, both TI and DO loved Terrie and wanted to give her the best chance they could of rising up to see Them as who they had awakened to become, Two Older Member Souls from the Next Level Above Human, the Kingdom of God, the Physical Kingdom of Heaven. We have about 200 audio tapes that show how dedicated TI was to the task so for anyone to believe what Terrie guessed and perhaps wanted to believe about TI “trying to get out” has no evidence to it and instead there is tons of evidence to the contrary.

Another point in that podcast, while I’m at it was brought up by Terrie also that was critical of DO because he didn’t tell Terrie that TI’s vehicle had been sick and died. I know from a human perspective that would be a horrible thing to not tell her. But TI and DO were not humans though they occupied human vehicles. As it turned out, TI had told DO not to tell Terrie about her dying since she knew she was leaving. The doctors sent her home to die because they said the cancer in her liver had spread throughout her body and TI didn’t want to go through all it might take to try to halt the cancer. They even told the doctor before he even diagnosed her with liver cancer that she didn’t want to fight it nor be kept alive on machines. TI knew it was time to exit. DO said she burnt out her vehicle dealing with the bulk of the negativity against her that primarily started when they went public and attracted followers in 1975.

The clincher that DO was honestly trying to follow TI’s last wishes by not telling Terrie of TI’s death of her vehicle at that time is evident because TI didn’t tell Terrie that she had her eye removed, from Cancer, some 2 years before the death sentence. We lived in Texas mostly in those years where Terrie also lived and yet TI didn’t call Terrie but one time I think. Nor did TI visit Terrie. Nor did TI talk about her sickness to Terrie.

I believe TI didn’t want to tell Terrie because she didn’t want Terrie to be upset and didn’t want to have Terrie want to visit her and to unknowingly cause interference with DO being able to carry on the Classroom to finish the task.

DO said he knew there would come a time where he would have to explain to Terrie what happened to TI, and why he had to live by TI’s last wishes. DO did send two students to explain about TI’s exit soon after TI left. TI was concerned big time with the Groups security. After all there were investigators looking for various adult students and the FBI at one time were looking for them thinking they had something to do with the cattle mutilations in Wyoming, Colorado and Texas and Oklahoma in the early to mid 1970’s. TI and DO didn’t want some so called cult deprogrammer to try to kidnap someone’s loved one in the Group. The students were all adults and no one was held against their will or threatened in any way or made to feel guilty for leaving. In fact some were sent out of the group a number of times because they didn’t seem to be fully engaging growth as TI and DO felt we needed to do.

By the way, there was one time that DO called a meeting that TI didn’t attend to where DO asked us to bring any bibles we had to. We didn’t have many so we doubled up on them. I think I recall I was partners with Chkody at the time. DO had us open up to Revelation 12:1.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

DO said the “Woman” (generator of life) was speaking of TI his Older Member. The entire chapter of Revelation 12 is like an outline of what was to happen from TI’s perspective where Revelation 11 was like an outline of what was to happen from both TI and DO’s perspective. Revelation 10 is like an outline of what was to happen from Students perspective prior to Revelation 11 and after they ascended back into their positions on board spacecrafts in the Next Level’s keeping. There is lots more to say about the Book of Revelation that I’ve said in my book and in video’s posted on my YouTube channel: 3spm.

Finally regarding the Heaven’s Gate Podcast, Frank (who had been Andody in the Class until he left in 1993) said that DO had become more controlling after TI left when I think the evidence suggests if one wants to use that “controlling” word that there were actually less “controls” in place after TI left. We had more movies, video’s, deserts, exercise programs. DO ate with us more and DO was more relaxed on talking. I asked Frank for examples of DO becoming more controlling and he had nothing to say.

Niklas:

Today, most scholars consider the concept of brainwashing– a term that first emerged to explain why captured US soldiers had defected to North Korea – as not only pseudoscience but also inapplicable to members of what we commonly call ‘religious cults’. One of the consultants in the HBO series, a sociologist named Janja Lalich, dismisses the relative scientific consensus on brainwashing as ‘some academics who want us to think that it doesn’t exist’. On the contrary, she ‘guarantees’ its existence based on her experience as an activist in a Marxist-Leninist political party. She has since, and I quote, ‘dedicated her life to educating others about cults’ by writing books and giving lectures. She’s also launched her own scientific explanation for brainwashing: ‘bounded choice’. One of her books uses Heaven’s Gate to argue this model.

46. Mark:

– Lalich wrote a non-objective book about her experience in a cult and then threw in our trademarks – which are illegal for her to use – to get people to buy it. None of these ‘experts’ have any training in the relevant fields. They have neither the studied background nor the discipline but are used by directors for sheer sensationalism. The characters in that HBO special had already been discredited by professionals in fields such as anthropology, sociology, psychology and applied religious studies long before it was produced. They are low-level hacks who should never be used by real news or documentary-makers seeking accurate information. We told the production crew, in person, not to use those individuals. Instead, they edited Zeller’s contributions to the show down to a minimum.

46. Sawyer:

First off, the so called Trademarks that Mark and Sarah registered are very in doubt. None of them were condoned by TI and DO and Crew. Mark and Sarah received nothing to give them reasons to trademark anything but even if they did or even if that was a good idea, to keep those images away from new and old believers is very against TI and Do’s intentions in my evidenced based opinion.

Niklas:

In the media section of Janja Lalich’s website, Cult Research & Information Center, there is a 2021 video called Secrets of the Heaven’s Gate Cult. I watched it and noticed a few extraordinary assertions. For instance, she purports to have been the first to figure out who the departed were and what cult they belonged to. That is downright ridiculous since everyone’s pockets contained an ID, and the Heaven’s Gate website was left open on their computers. Furthermore, she says there were media vans ‘lined up’ on her street, with reporters hanging on her doorstep waiting for the renowned expert to appear. Robert Balch and David Taylor – both of whom appear in the HBO series – are by all accounts the only academics to have worked directly on Heaven’s Gate before the suicides, and they attracted nowhere near that kind of media hounding.

47. Mark:

– If those in the Class truly were ‘brainwashed’, there really is little hope for the world. This insistence is a clear indicator of weakness and lack of serious study by these ‘specialists’. In reality, they are just recovering from their own failures. Why have neither Lalich nor the other one – Steve Hassan – who appeared in the Stitcher podcast and HBO special never so much as contacted us to get the real story or verify their information? Nor have they spoken to any of those from the Class featured in the same programs. We own all the Group’s teachings, and we’ve never heard from either of them.

47. Sawyer:

Mark says, “We own all the Group’s teachings…” That “ownership” was decreed by Judge Lisa Guy Schall to enter into a settlement with Mark and Sarah so they wouldn’t appeal her judgment against them having any right to any of the Heaven’s Gate property they left behind. So they bribed the County to get the intellectual property they did get. Then they used that settlement decision to win another Consent Decree in 1999. But in reality TI and DO didn’t want anyone to “own” the material.

Here is an example of what DO thought about ownership taken from Session 12 of the “Beyond Human – The Last Call” Video Series:

“Actually, there shouldn’t be any here in the human kingdom. This kingdom and every element on it, everything that goes into making an automobile or a house or a company or anything else, belongs to the Chief of Chiefs and His Kingdom, the God of Gods. It does not belong to humans. Humans play a little game of copy-cat by saying, “I want to own this, I want to stake this off, it’s mine.” It isn’t his, he’s just playing a game. Now if he has the attitude that it isn’t “mine,” he’s at least a little closer. If he has the attitude of saying, “This is just entrusted to me as the keeper of it, and I’ll do the best I can.” And if the day comes when a Representative is there with the transition available, the day is come if you’re someone who might be capable of connecting with this and know your Father.”

Previous to this part of DO’s talk he explained needing to have a car title or house title to abide by the laws of this land, but in the case of the Intellectual Property belonging to it’s creators there is no need for such a legal document unless someone has chosen to look to the human kingdom minds to drum up such a justification.

They wanted “any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information” and who could even sell it to raise funds to continue to disseminate their material. They are suing me and Cathy for making and selling T shirts with the heaven’s gate logo on them and for using the Celestial Being image Ollody created. All we wanted to do was put those images out into the world and sure we have to turn a little profit to be able to continue doing that and other related work. But they let those lawsuits go to their heads and caused them to ignore what TI and DO showed they expected to happen.

But since Mark brings up the Stitcher, Pineapple Street Media documentary, that had Lalich and Hassan in it, which I agree are know nothings who media groups turn to, to please their primary constituents

However, while I was working with Anne Hepperman, having been invited by her to be interviewed in her teams office in Brooklyn to include me in their podcast and when she came to my house in Vermont for additional footage, I learned that she also interviewed Nancie Brown, mother of Alxody’s vehicle (one of the Students who exited), who I had also been close to after I left the Group in 1994.

Anne learned from Nancie that she had a video tape of the Christmas celebration, I believe of 1996 when Alxody and Vrnody returned from their choice to have the castration operation. By the way, DO set up that option, in a way that required a student who wanted the operation to go live in an area close to where the operation would be performed by a certified surgeon of that procedure. That person needed to get a job to pay for it themselves. This way that person would not be under the influence of DO. So Alxody and Vrnody (who was a relatively new student having joined in 1994, whom I met then, had finished their having that operation.

The Song of TI and DO:

The video showed the Classroom singing the DO a deer song from the Sound of Music that they changed the lyrics to be about TI and DO’s Classroom. TI and DO had felt that musical was significantly influenced in the story and music, etc. directly by a Next Level Above Human Crew to be a type of outline for TI and DO’s awakening and taking a group of students through learning their lessons (TI called a “piano roll” to where each lesson step was like one note on the piano and all the lessons would accumulate into a “song”, (which is depicted in Revelation chapters 5 and 14). TI also compared the lesson plan to Old McDonald’s Farm song to where each lesson step was like the sound each animal made, so that each time one goes through the song they sing the building string of animal sounds, again into a “song”. In the case of the Classroom the lessons weren’t literally musical sounds/notes. For instance one lesson step was to stop oneself from thinking about the past. This was the beginning of becoming a new creature in TI and DO’s “Process” aka Overcoming Process to cease operating as a human and with human mind and to increase operating with Their Next Level Mind by adopting their behaviors and ways they taught since they were the Teachers of the Experiment Requirements to complete the Astronaut Training Program to literally get a job that could be eternal to work in Crews on board spacecrafts that could be as large as planets, inside and/or out.

So on with the story. So Anne told me that Nancie told her that Mark and Sarah said she couldn’t give the video to anyone, that it was meant for her only. So Anne wanted to use it so knowing that I had a close relationship with Nancie asked me if I would ask her to allow her to use the audio track in the podcast. How could this be a bad thing I thought. Mark and Sarah were crazy with their sense of being the authority over all the material they had possession of. So I called Nancie and asked her and she told me Mark (and don’t know if she included Sarah) made her promise not to give the video to anyone, confirming what Anne had told me.

So it was then time for Anne to visit with Nancie in California to get an interview. When she went there she asked Nancie if she could rip (remove) the audio track from the video and Nancie agreed. That’s how part of the audio track got into the Heaven’s Gate podcasts, I believe, last episode #10.

However, Anne also told me that when Mark (and perhaps Sarah) heard it broadcast he was very upset and issued some kind of threat against their playing it but I don’t know if they ever followed through with their threat.

The video also included a “talent show” by some students and I believe I ended up seeing part of it in another documentary. I’m not sure how that came about but the HBO Max show, Heaven’s Gate Cult of Cults was a joint effort by the producers of the Heaven’s Gate podcast and a California based Video production Group.

Niklas:

Mrcody and Srfody have now served as Heaven’s Gate’s caretakers for over twenty-five years – longer than the Class even existed. Their day-to-day tasks range from website maintenance to answering emails and handling the Group’s intellectual property. Ever vigilant, in 2020 they threatened to sue a rapper called Lil Uzi Vert unless he changed his album cover which used a modified version of the Heaven’s Gate logo.

48. Mark:

– The Telah Foundation requires roughly four hours on an average day; about thirty hours per week, including weekends. The remaining time is devoted to our full-time jobs so that we can finance these activities. Our main task is disseminating the Next Level information to the world – from the website to the book, the tapes, and all that relates to it. It is our firm belief that the Class bequeathed their teachings to us in the way they wanted them to be, without edits or spotlights placed on individuals left behind. Srfody and I have gone to great lengths to ensure the materials remain intact. We have a profound understanding that the Group’s writings and intellectual property are part of their legacy.

48. Sawyer:

Mark and Sarah are both convinced that they and they only are to spread TI and DO’s information. That’s never been TI and DO’s intention for them to limit others and limit who could see/hear/read the information. Yes they have supported the website for all these years and I of course don’t take that away from them but they are not doing even a decent job of sharing the information with the world. They have told me and Cathy to our faces that they see people that attempt to use TI and DO’s information as “cockroaches” who they show their court order/consent decrees to and they “scatter” because of. They think of people as “swine” also, yet they do provide the website. They accused me of promoting suicide, calling me a “murderer” when I’ve never killed anyone nor promoted suicide and actually have talked endlessly about the futility of suicide and how the group themselves were anti human suicide because we need our physical bodies to learn lessons through.

There are so many things they could do to share Ti and Do’s Information with the “world” that they hardly lifted a finger to do. They finally put the Beyond Human videos on Vimeo while they had been available on YouTube and through myself and Crlody (Carlan) for many years. Even a new believer in TI and DO, referred to as XF did more to share the information with the world than they have done and they issued strikes against him or had someone named Dave do so, when all XF did was post the Beyond Human Videos for free download.

In 1997 they were even harassing Rkkody and Rkkody’s housemate Gnrody. I have proof of this. They wanted Rkkody to give them the audio tapes he and Oscody had retrieved from Storage. They had retrieved 486 audio tape cassettes and pretty much split them so that Rkkody had about 200 of them and Oscody had the others. Rkkody knew from the Letter Mark and Sarah received from DO and Crew that they were to divide the items of value among those who were inclined to disseminate our information, and the audio tapes were stacked in boxes at the front of that storage room. In the same Letter it was suggested that Mark and Sarah get help with Storage from Rkkody and Oscody (and even others). According to Rkkody Mark and Sarah wanted nothing to do with Storage, which is why they turned over the keys to vehicles and storage codes and locations and the Letters to Rkkody. It was about a week later that Mark and Sarah saw that the main media frenzy that happened had died down already and then decided they wanted to do the task they were given the opportunity to do. So they wanted the tapes retrieved by Rkkody since Oscody was working with Mark and Sarah at that point. Both Rkkody and Oscody were entertaining exiting their vehicles anyway so why not leave the tapes with Mark and Sarah. So Rkkody copied the audio cassettes and began to digitize them and put them on CD’s and send them to libraries and people like myself.

So before Rkkody exited he gave the audio masters to Mark and Sarah and the ones he’d copied by that time were in Carlan’s hands as Carlan was working with him to do all aspects of the dissemination task. By the way the dissemination task was intended to be done by all believers in TI and DO to show the Next Level we wanted to work for them. Mark and Sarah are still attempting to take that task away from people. They said as much to Cathy and I in person in 2021, saying something like, “isn’t what we are doing to disseminate the information enough,” showing that they missed the whole point that new believers needed to rise to that occasion as shown in Jwnody’s document in the Heaven’s Gate Book, “Away Team from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure”.

Next where Mark includes the “tapes” in the Next Level Information they were supposed to disseminate, why is it that 1061 audio tapes were never disseminated hardly at all to anyone but Jhnody (Juan) who they sent some 80 audio cassettes to, telling him they were for “safe keeping”.

Then Jhnody kept asking for more tapes and Mark and Sarah finally over a years time sent him digitized audios – over 900 (that included what Rkkody had, that he had sent me in 1997). So when Jhnody realized they were going to be hidden away, knowing they were intended to be shared with the world, knowing that I had maintained a YouTube channel (3spm) for many years sharing tapes with people that Mark and Sarah didn’t attempt to stop at that time, he sent me a thumb drive containing over 900 of the digitized audios.

Mark and Sarah repeatedly call me a thief of those tapes yet they were gifted to me by Rkkody and Jhnody who both were named by DO to receive the tapes in Mark and Sarah’s Letter.

Where Mark says, “Our main task is disseminating the Next Level information to the world – from the website to the book, the tapes, and all that relates to it” that establishes that they are also talking about the audio tapes. Yet it’s been 25 years that the audio tapes have not been disseminated by them. Why many people ask. Many people think it’s because of money – they hope to make money with them somehow. I don’t think it’s really about money, though there could be some sense that if they exclusively have them they hold a stronger position with movie studios since apparently they are acting as check partners for Rio (Neody) to arrive at a movie deal. I wouldn’t be surprised if that is part of their desire to have all the intellectual property the group made in their exclusive possession. They have said things to Cathy and to me along the lines of their wanting to preserve the information for 200 years. They told me and those on one of my live streams (that I have as evidence) that included Cathy before I knew her personally and also later when Cathy and I met with them in November of 2021 that they intended on putting all the audio tapes on Vimeo (where they have a channel with the Beyond Human Video Tapes posted). They said they would do this by March 25, 2022. Mark said that this wasn’t going to happen unless Carlan and I both gave them all the audio tapes we had and agreed to not disseminate them because then they would be the exclusive disseminators of them via Vimeo. At our face to face meeting in Nov 2021 I asked them what was special about that date and they said it was very special to them, that’s all I recall.

There was no way in the world that Carlan or I would give them any of the audio tapes we were given by Rkkody and Jhnody. So maybe they would say, that’s why they never posted the audios on Vimeo. However, I learned that they originally intended to use Vimeo because they didn’t think someone could download them from there. But that Mark discovered that using an Apple application they could be downloaded. I don’t know if that was why they didn’t post them there.

However I could never go along with that, as what happens when the site is down, no one has access to the tapes? Mark and Sarah talk about preserving them for 200 years but what better way to really preserve them than by putting them in as many hands as possible. Furthermore what’s the use of preserving them for 200 years if no one can hear them until then. For several years Mark and Sarah have sent someone who asked for the audios one audio at a time that had a limited time span that could be downloaded and couldn’t be saved on the person’s computer or phone (that I was aware of). Before I met Cathy in person, she had to ask for the same tape multiple times because the time ran out or her cell phone died so lost the link.

These tapes average over an hour each and there are 1061 of them according to Mark. Some are hard to hear and those are some of the first ones Mark and Sarah send to people which in an of itself can discourage them from listening to others. People aren’t given the tape log so they can choose which tapes they want to listen to. When someone receives tape number one they can ask them for tape number two. At that rate it would take many years to hear all the tapes. Plus what TI and DO talk about isn’t at all easy to hear and even harder to digest as we all have Influences that can balk at who they say they are and why they are hear and what is required to graduate Their Classroom and why the requirements are so steep. I was present for over 700 of the meetings and yet when I listen to them again, I realize how much I missed and how much there still was for me to gain from them. So keeping them from people makes no sense unless one fears the heat of being seen as a representative of what the mainstream media refers to as a dangerous suicide cult leader.

Mark and Sarah have been attempting to legitimize TI and DO’s teachings as becoming a new age religion. Do talked a bit about that in audio tape 331, if I recall but perhaps in another. I had felt that before I heard DO say it, perhaps from being present during that meeting it stayed in my subconscious. What I was consciously seeing was the language they were using in the email interviews they would give over the years. Like when they said, there is no Heaven or Hell to one interviewer. I could see saying that because of TI and DO’s interpretation of those terms being somewhat different than the other religions depictions of those words. And perhaps they did say more about it in those emails and the publisher didn’t use it all, but I’ve seen a lot of evidence that Mark and Sarah say very little and in my opinion assume a great deal and think they know so much while showing that they have forgotten a great deal. We all lose some of what we once gained when we dropped out of the Group but then we lose even more if we don’t “use” what we still have and attempt to add to what we once had by listening to tapes, and reading their book, etc. I don’t know if they ever listen to much as I know from first hand experience that influences don’t want us to do so as it becomes painful to see what we lost by dropping out.

The next sentence says more, “It is our firm belief that the Class bequeathed their teachings to us in the way they wanted them to be, without edits or spotlights placed on individuals left behind.”

All this so called eloquent language. There was no “bequeathed”. They were supposed to retrieve the contents of storage and divide the items of value among those who were inclined to disseminate Their Information. They, Rkkody and Jhnody were given the website that contains the book. Jhnody and Rkkody were also sent information directly by DO that Mark and Sarah didn’t get and that wasn’t in Storage. Oscody was given the Book to publish and register in the Library of Congress. Somehow Mark and Sarah took that task from him. Rkkody was given the codes to make all the programming changes to the Heaven’s Gate various websites. Jhnody was given the original masters of the Beyond Human video series of 12 tapes close to 13 hours in total. As I’ve shown Rkkody and Oscody retrieved the audio tapes. Mark and Sarah told Cathy and I they went to Storage and the locks were on the door but Rkkody says in his manuscript that Oscody went to storage and discovered the locks were put on Storage. Mark and Sarah told Cathy and I that the reason they didn’t go to Storage was because they had to help authorities by going to help them identify the bodies. Yet every member as I understand it had on their person some form of legal Identification including drivers licenses, passports for many.

What we learned subsequently was that all Mark and Sarah did was send authorities in San Diego a list of the names of students, something they had received from DO and Crew. Why then didn’t they go to Storage to retrieve the “items of value…”? There is much circumstantial evidence that Rkkody’s manuscript is the most accurate of what happened as I have stated before. They were afraid and that fear was greater than their trust that TI, DO and Crew would protect them. I believe that’s also why they still won’t show their faces to the media and is why they don’t want people to have TI and DO’s information and treat it seriously. They still don’t trust in DO. They harp on “security” but at this point it’s blown way out of proportion because though we do strive to be careful in certain ways, TI and DO and Crew will help us through the rough spots of disseminating their information.

Finally, there is this little statement that says, “…the Class bequeathed their teachings to us in the way they wanted them to be, without edits or spotlights placed on individuals left behind.”

“…without edits or spotlights placed on individuals left behind.”

This appears to say a great deal to me though perhaps I am wrong in looking between the lines but perhaps I am seeing what they may be hiding.

Years ago, given that Mark and Sarah wouldn’t send me the audio tapes they had digitized as I never wanted the actual cassettes, saying it was because I would share them with others, I asked them in an email whether the reason they didn’t want anyone to have those audios was because of how it could be found in them the explanation of their being instructed to leave the Class for not wanting to follow procedures surrounding the lesson step entitled, “I Could be wrong”. Mark wrote to me which I still have the proof of that said “that never crossed our minds” and that “…you should restrain such wonderings” (paraphrased). But why should I restrain my wondering. After all wouldn’t anyone want to know why they were speaking out of both sides of their mouth by saying they wanted to spread the information around the world while holding back over 1000 hours of audio tapes?

After all by that point, I had followed an email interview they gave to Gizmodo I believe it was (that is posted on my blog, Sawyerhg.wordpress.com) where they were asked why they left the group and their response was something along the lines of, “to do this task” which was a huge lie and there is a great deal of evidence in the audio tapes of DO talking about how he had to instruct them to leave if they didn’t want to follow procedures. I didn’t even know about the many clips where DO addresses them until years after this Gizmodo interview had been published.

Also before I knew of all the audio tape clips with DO talking about how they ceased to look to his Mind but were satisfied looking to one another’s minds, had become a couple and had refused tasks DO offered to them because of not wanting to change anything about their comfort level outside the Classroom or circumstances, I watched a YouTube video of an email interview where they said according to the host, when asked about their holding back the audio tapes, that they wouldn’t be released until all those spoken about in the tapes were deceased (perhaps something about doing so in respect for their families, might have been part of it). The host I believe was, Dr. Todd Grande, but I haven’t been able to find that interview yet. When I heard that I had no real interest in talking much about Mark and Sarah. I was content we had the audio tapes TI, DO and Crew wanted us to have and that if They wanted us to have more, they would arrange it somehow, which they did I believe by compelling Mark and Sarah to send them to Jhnody.

So in that light who are those students, in this case former students who are spoken of in the audios that are not yet deceased? There are a number but Mark and Sarah certainly are included. Plus what kind of criteria is that for not providing TI and DO’s information to the public. Are they claiming to be servants of TI and DO or not. Is their judgment so correct to what TI and DO would do now. They seem to think so, which is very sad. It’s one thing to be confident with actually having significant proof of how TI and DO thought about a subject and another thing altogether to use our own minds to be confident about what TI and DO might say and do. Isn’t that attitude telling with the reason they were sent out of the Classroom. They didn’t know how they could be wrong. They had become confident in their own opinions, even seeing or picking and choosing minor things TI and DO said as their justification for doing whatever they wanted with the information.

Niklas:

Do you have any human goals you are currently working towards?

49. Mark:

– We are just making due. Our main goal right now is to get done with this interview; it is just a few sentences short of The Greatest Story Ever Told, and that ran for over four hours. Things are different with Ti, Do, and the Group gone, but Srfody and I do what we can to evolve in the ways of the Next Level. We have grown together to become the longest-lasting partnership in the history of the Class. The Next Level knows what they are doing.

49. Sawyer:

“Just making due”. Isn’t filing a lawsuit against me, Cathy and Carlan (Crlody) something they are “working towards,” as asked by the host?

Look at their ego acting as if this interview was “a few sentences short of The Greatest Story Ever Told, and that ran for over four hours”. That film was about Jesus. They are seeking to stop disciples of the same Soul who was in Jesus from sharing what he said in some 1061 audio tapes. Marks responses in this interview is not even short of one of the greatest pack of lies and deceit and manipulative innuendo that has been told in a long time, perhaps alongside how the organized church replaced Jesus with Paul of Tarsus who talked about Jesus as if he knew when he never knew much of his Mind. Paul showed some signs of wanting to be a student of Jesus’ teachings but he just didn’t know a lot about those teachings so fell prey to the Lower Forces trying to commandeer the Teachings of Jesus to distort and dilute them into what became the Christian religion.

Mark brags about being the so called “longest-lasting partnership in the history of the class” but they were booted out of the Class because among other things DO said they wanted a relationship with one another. They were sent out in 1987. From that point on they were not in the Class so how can they be the longest lasting partnership in a group they were no longer a part of.

DO still wanted them to not reject the entire Next Level and go further and further away from Their Minds, so he kept offering them tasks and finally at their departure had offered them the tasks they were given by DO and the most important parts of those tasks they have twisted to doing their own way which is contrary to what DO’s wishes were but like the Next Level Older Member that DO is, made it all into a positive to show us what can happen to even someone who feels they are a believer. They can even believe DO was off track in ways and yet not allow themselves to even see how they are saying that (like in this interview), while thinking they love TI and DO and as they mutate Their teachings into a new age religion far afield from what was taught by TI and DO.

I had to do my best to set the record straight as I know how to do.

I really do not enjoy surfacing Mark and/or Sarah’s misinformation propagation, but they give me no choice. They could have just left me along to play audio tapes on my YouTube channel and send people the information, all freely. They could have made them all available to me and anyone who wanted to disseminate them. But they chose not to so now I and Cathy and Carlan (and so some degree Jhnody) must seek to win this lawsuit for the Freedom of Information about all the truth about what exactly TI and DO taught and demonstrated to the world over 24+ years.

It’s not over until TI and DO and Crew decide to advance the recycling. Anyone can appeal to TI and DO and ask them for service and seek to put it into motion as they help those see what shape it can take.

sawyer
sawcat575@gmail.com
http://www.youtube.com/3spm
http://www.facebook.com/sawyer.heavensgate
http://www.sawyerhg.wordpress.com

Critique of Dark Days Dawning Podcast

The podcast is called:

The Heavens Gate Mass Suicide 1997

https://youtu.be/kGbCOoIbsSU

Sawyer’s replies/comments:

No one in the group said or believed that they would be “taking a ride” on the Hale Bopp comet or the reported “companion object”. They said it was “irrelevant” whether there was a companion object. They said the comet was the “marker” of the timing of their exit. Note that anyone who has any belief in Jesus as being from outer space with a message of how to qualify to join his team might want to consider that the comet is what was depicted in the saying of Jesus that follows.

(While I’m at it, here is some evidence that Jesus was an ET because of how he knew ahead of time what would happen on earth to help people wake up more to his reality):

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning((greek astrape – rooted in astra=Star and the “gleam of a lamp” or shining)) cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Most of the comets we see that come close to earth that are labeled “great comets” because they are able to be seen with the naked eye (if one knows where to look), though with Hale Bopp it was even seen with the naked eye while the sun was still up over North America. Plus it was seen traversing from east to west because that’s the path along the ecliptic that the stars follow and it really does look like a star that is moving, though Hale Bopp was also perhaps the biggest comet ever seen.

Now saying that it’s referring to the “Son of Man” coming means He would be returning through taking over a human vehicle (as son=offspring and from man = humans, speaking of the vehicle that was tagged for his usage that TI and DO said about both the vehicles they took that they would have died had they not “tagged” them for their usage.

See, they knew that TI would be coming to pick them up in TI’s spacecraft but they didn’t know whether TI would take their vehicles as well. They thought it might go that way at first but they also came to know over time that it might not go that way as they didn’t think the Next Level had any use for their vehicles. But since TI had left her vehicle, “burned it out” dealing with all the negativity sent to her that people don’t even know happens but people in high profile public places know well of and she certainty was made to look like a dangerous cult leader in 1975 that was reported that way throughout the world. Since DO wanted to “cover his bets” for whatever TI wanted to do, he prepared the students to have a change of clothing and passports and a small amount of money on them. That was in case TI decided to heal their vehicles.

So the “coming” part of that verse may appear to not apply to their exit, but as it turns out it was the Coming of TI at the end of the task that this comet was a marker for, in that context. Here is the definition options for “coming”:

3952 parousia {par-oo-see’-ah}
from the present participle of 3918; TDNT – 5:858,791; n f
AV – coming 22, presence 2; 24
1) presence 2) the coming, arrival, advent 2a) the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God

TI and Do always noted their “coming” paralleled with the coming to perihelion of the great comet Kohoutek which was first sighted in March of 1973 a couple weeks after they left Bourne, TX where they received their first big awakening package of new information. By the end of 1973 is when they were ready to write their book but their car broke down somewhere in St. Louis around december 25th when Kohoutek was at perihelion that led to their eventual arrest as “thieves” (in the night, what TI and DO said meant that they were coming “undercover” (wearing normal human vehicles) to somewhat quietly as possible take Souls away from human existence – what the Luciferian space alien fallen angel souls had laid claim on).

Remember how there was reported in the Book of John if I recall correctly that while the students of Jesus were with him, he physically rose up and was received by a cloud (covering) and that Two People they thought to be “angels” verified to them that this was real and was the way he would always come and go (whether visible or not). So the Cloud was a spacecraft though don’t know how filled with light it was to look like a comet looks though from a greater distance, but actually perhaps a better context is the so called Star of Bethlehem – that may have been a comet as well and/or a spacecraft as a “marker”. By the way in the New Testament when they use the word “sign” it often can be translated to “marker” as well.

Jesus said healing from ingesting a poison could be a sign of a Next Level Member, which since Their students were members of the Next Level in new vehicles to finish their graduation requirements to become adults in the Next Level, still being in a type of children development, this could apply to them that they can perform healings on themselves and others if that was part of the program:

Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Actually this was said in the context of Jesus sending his students out to spread the news of his coming so applies most to them but this can always be the case that the Next Level can help any human they choose to recover from taking in some kind of poison and help them deal with in this example snake bites while a poison can even be something that some in the human kingdom think is medicine but for some it can be deadly. Case in point, the vakkkkkkkks all do kill some who take them – it’s just a small amount and not every humans has caught the eye of a Next Level Representative to get their help with something like that. Plus the point is that “it shall not hurt them”, which can be their vehicle and/or their Mind because a student knows they are not their vehicle but need to use their vehicle to learn their lessons through.

So what happened in this regard, since the space alien fallen angel souls hate to see anyone showing their allegiance to Jesus and his teachings, they set out to discredit them at every turn. That’s why Christians often support wars and some have become molesters of children and other hypocrisies to the Jesus belief/working for. So humans were led to be made fun of with the idea that had some picking up serpents and some drinking poisons thinking Jesus would save them. For all I know the Next Level did help some who drank poison or got bit by a snake, but some they let get very sick and/or die – because even that can be a lesson learned and the Next Level can take anyone’s Soul and save it for a new planting.

But the context of what jesus said could be literal but also works figuratively to where poison is taking in any substance or way of thinking that could result in one losing their vehicle and/or their soul because of those choices, that is if they continued to make those poor choices to put poisons in their body or to go along with “serpents” – the space aliens and their human counterparts and discarnates with their same mindset of seeking to steal souls to their camp/corporation.

So taking up serpents, I believe really meant to override the lower forces attempts to influence us who are TI and DO’s students, like saying “get out of here” (as Jesus said “get behind me satan”) to remove their thoughts and feelings from our consciousness – putting up the “blank cue card” in our mind and even growing to sense their vibration before thoughts even register or fully register.

TELAH stands for The Evolutionary Level Above Human. The recycling hasn’t occurred yet because that’s what happens after the Next Level gives ample opportunity for people who are reaching for the truth about our ultimate purpose here on earth, who the Next Level has helped, to hear about TI and DO’s gateway into the literal Heavens and chose to whom to serve and to whom to die for, between dying for humans or dying for the Next Level Older Members. Either way our human vehicles are going to die. They had the right to die on their terms but they didn’t do so until DO knew his students proved to him and to TI (then outside her vehicle) they were ready, because that was in no way their end but many don’t comprehend that and think it’s religio-spiritual hearsay, but that doesn’t mean it is because some don’t want to even consider it.

The phrase “ascended masters” came about through the Theosophists and was a twisted way of elevating human religionists who took on the reward to themselves but who were often the opposite of having become beginner students and younger members in the Next Level Above Human.

If you took the time to really look into the entire story, what was taught and how they lived you would find out that there was no manipulation or psychological mind control program or other nefarious practices or agenda’s unlike many cults to include the cults that do have those agendas via governments and corporations as we have been witnessing of late to the enth degree. Your jargon sounds intelligent but doesn’t describe what happened in the group but is the attempt of a number of writers to use to explain what DO and Crew chose to do, ignoring the 22 years before then that evidences how they couldn’t in anyones right mind be considered insane, though that has become increasingly easy to see with the increases in technolgies and events that demonstrate the realities they taught that were even foundationally what previous members of the Next Level taught, though became corrupted entirely into religions. Now there is the religion of human science that is what many “believe in” which includes thinking that it makes any sense at all that this planet and it’s life forms came together because of the oxymoron of “random and/or accidental development”

To state that the phrases Kingdom in Heaven and/or kingdom of God is “faulty or false religious literature” is not based on facts. In fact that part of the religious literature has a huge amount of evidence and that evidence extends the most to what started to happen in the late 1940’s with crashes of spacecrafts and bodies that were humanoid but clearly not human in their organ composition as per the autopsy reports provided by Leonard Stringfield who worked for MUFON that he acquired from at least one doctor who leaked the report of the autopsies he performed. Now if all that history that could fill many volumes is ignored of course less of this story would be considered fact, but even that last 70+ years shows how humans can live in at least a tiny degree of outer space in the ISS, a joint effort between the US and EU and Russia and others.

The autopsies reveal on some of the subjects of having no reproductive organs while some had a remnant of reproductive organs. This then corroborates what TI and DO said in 1975 that revealed that Members of the Level Above Human don’t reproduce because for one, they don’t die like human mammals do. And since the crashes also showed a technology that was beyond human then and now, as they still haven’t seemed to perfect their propulsion zero point energy system that Nicoli Tesla documented because the key to such a drive is the elements that are not found on earth and that no one has been able to manufacture though they have been trying , but that they found in one engine that was dismantled and examined by Bob Lazar who was hired to work at a groom lake area 51 military aircraft test base in Nevada. One can ignore all that but my mention here is just the tip of the iceberg of facts that many of because of their enormity of value were leaked on and off over the years. So I’m saying this because these people who came from outer space or from caverns inside the earth’s crust where there has been evidence have existed beyond just the records said to be religious because the religions passed them on in the compilation of the bible do exist. That means the stories from the religions – most all of them by the way even among cultures that had no coordination can easily be shown to have a strong basis in science facts but of course remain the choice for some to pay any attention to at all, just like some believe the earth is flat and/or there was no moon landings and that some think humans create much of the weather. Some humans even think they are the most advanced forms of life in the universe, another oxymoron considering how many humans act now and how limited humans are really – can’t even hardly live past 70 or 80 and still be vibrantly alive.

I’m ignoring your sarcastic comments on this serious subject. Talking about them as if their ideas are science fiction has no weight, especially since what was initially science fiction in this brief earth history turns out to tell the future that was about to be revealed that was often poo pooed at it’s origin in writings and of late in movies. Some tiny examples are the portrayal of people video communicating all over the planet as portrayed by some very early sci fi movies like the Jetsons and others. Then there is the idea of beaming down to a planet from Star Trek. While the method isn’t to deconstruct one’s genetic makeup to reconstruct at the destination, it does bring evidence to the ideas that a living physical being could travel from a flying craft to the earth and back as humans do now which Jesus was documented to have done when he left with his physical body that he proved to many was physical though that became distorted to be a Spirit. However, with what they call 3D printers they can send digital instructions over the air waves, though to be a miracle had we talked about then in the early 1800’s that could reconstruct a blueprint of a physical object in another part of the earth. Also it would have been thought insane and was for a long time to talk about germ theory and then there is the genetic code which is evidence of very detailed intense programming that can even change with repetition and mutation to evolve or devolve. The science of Mind is yet another idea that was way ahead of it’s time as shown by many cultures. So you are missing a whole lot of reality by acting as if science fiction can’t show things that will only be understood in the future. So if one extrapolates that idea to the Book of Revelation it could offer explanation on why many of the prophecies are not made up fanciful stories as some want to believe and have that right to believe but are the communication from a highly advanced physical Level of lifeforms for the purpose of holding school on the planet they engineered into existence for this purpose upon which they also engineered it’s lifeforms but did so in such a way that their reality would only become manifest in each person’s mind according to their openness and desire to see it.

What evidence do you have that supports Members of the group thinking they “needed” to be castrated. I know of that subject in great detail and was pressing DO to allow me to have that procedure if he got instruction to allow it of me. I suggest you read the document entitled Sawyer’s Story on my blog, sawyerhg.wordpress.com for the details of which I speak, though it might be in a document linked to by the Sawyer’s Story document. But it’s also in my book that is posted on my blog as well. Search my blog for “castration” and it should bring it up. If you have trouble I’ll find it for you. I didn’t “need” to be castrated. It wasn’t required either. DO didn’t give that instruction to allow it for over 3 years from when it first came up in around 1987 that DO was considering doing for himself as he was tired of dealing with the hormones that flow through, in this case a male vehicles system that stimulates those desires. Remaining sexual, though part of the human kingdom as a choice doesn’t exist among Members of the Next Level. It’s not a moral issue. It’s practical that to be on a crew with others in the Next Level spacecrafts if one still has that desire in their Minds they will have a type of weakness if it were allowed to graduate while still having those desires. Those desires are not just from hormones but are programming as well, programs because of all the times someone runs that program throughout their life. So getting rid of that chemical production is but an aid that together with the learned self discipline of not wanting to be sexual actually helps someone develop more common sense about what is beyond the human condition where they are quite happy with no sex or reproduction at all. Some of their tasks, by the way are to be on duty observing humans on computer screens as blips of light that get brighter when someone is especially thirsty for learning and growth, yearning to learn what’s real beyond this place which is a lot more than what is really a facsimile created by the lower forces of the planet to keep us as temporary life forms addicted to our sensual passions when we can evolve by choice to no longer have any of the limits humans have.

That’s not true re: your saying they all went to mexico for the procedure. I know of two who went to Boulder Colorado and the first castration I was present for with Lvvody as the surgeon since she was a nurse for an orchiectomist in the US. That was performed in a sterile room set up in a warehouse in San Clemente, CA. However, we put a sign up over the door to that sterile room that said Mexico so at first when I told that story that got reported as happening in mexico. The purpose of the sign was in case someone filed charges against any of us, we could say it was done in Mexico, a type of white lie as we were not doing anything wrong or against anyones will by any stretch of the imagination and even Jesus supported someone castrating themselves for the Kingdom of Heaven’s sake meaning because it would be seen by the Next Level as wanting to give Them all our heart, Mind, Soul and Strength as the Next Level doesn’t need new members so they do make it very difficult while also providing all the help according to the grade in school of the students. The Moses grade in school was like early elementary school while the Jesus classroom was preparing for graduation but that a human who appears to be at the top of the human game is basically in the 6th grade with the object being to get out of all the things they got into by climbing the human ladder. That takes place over generations of potential growth of a Mind. But to graduate one needs to get rid of most all their human desires because then one begins membership in the Next Level with pure goodness which is why so many humans when they would meet the students in various setting mostly really liked them. In some circumstance because of what I hadn’t overcome I wasn’t liked by some I worked with at jobs in the world but that’s part of why I wasn’t permitted to graduate with them.

Wow, the books you get your information from have botched this story. It was true the first castration had a “minor” complication that we didnt’ know at the time was minor but learned about when it was easily fixed when we took Srrody to the hospital. That problem with Srrody’s castration of his vehicle had nothing to do with Srrody’s timing or reason for dying, though he was among the 38 students at Rancho Sante Fe. Do I suspect wen to Mexico but I’m not sure of that but I understood that DO experienced some difficulty from his castration. But the other 5 students to chose to have that procedure were required to leave the group and find an apartment close to where they would have the procedure and to get a job to pay for the procedure, which shows they were acting on their own volition as one can think they were brainwashed by DO which wasn’t at all the case but all who know anything about brainwashing as humans do to one another all the time through the great amounts of propaganda in the mainstream media especially that’s considered normal and true, is that one must continue the brainwashing to keep it effective to the subject. And one must also have the same environment. If DO had them in some spell as some humans claim which is ridiculous to say the least, their living and working someplace far distant from the overall group would be an easy way of breaking any alleged programming. People keep trying to come up with ways of denying the truth that they were exactly who they said and showed that they were so they don’t fit any human molds or models, though many humans act like they do so they write books and all that does is show what they don’t know to the few who sense there is more to this story.

Yes, srrody really enjoyed not having to deal with his vehicles sexualty much anymore but that had nothing to do with his commitment to TI and DO and The Evolutionary Level Above Human (TELAH) as that took place after he’d been with the group since 1975 and I knew him very well and he was as dedicated as I was but more successful in his overcoming than I was.

Another erroneous opinion saying that TI and DO were preaching that the world was against them, as little as they did that, which wasn’t really talked about with everyone until the news broke in 1975 in october which did show how hated they were but they said nothing about that except rarely, many years later, but saying that thinking the world was against them/us had nothing at all to do with my belief and commitment to them and I bet that speaks to the 38 as well though especially I know about for the 24 who I lived with for 19 years in the group. These authors get a free pass to conjure up these opinions and put together with some of the facts, they give the appearance of truth while as skewing it all over the place to their own liking and lack of belief.

The Christian Arts center closed months before 1973 as they had another center for study called Knowplace for a few months after the Christian Arts center and then by 1-1-73 they left the houston area entirely, more or less run out of town by their former friends and family who some thought they were having an affair but there was nothing of the sort happening.

One thing this person said in the podcast that he read from wikipedia caught my interest (as I haven’t visited for a while) that I wanted to know about was when TI’s vehicle, Bonnie Or Bonnie’s husband filed for divorce and why. I don’t doubt that what he read was true that the reason for the divorce was because the husband didn’t like the direction Bonnie was going in her study and experimental practice with what was seen as the occult that had been so demonized by many Christians to explore, including astrology. So it seems the divorce proceeding had little or nothing to do with TI’s vehicle meeting DO’s vehicle, though perhaps that was the last straw for the husband. I know he thought she was having an affair with Herf. I remember DO saying that the husband had threatened Herf, so much so that DO filed a restraining order on the husband so that he wasn’t allowed by law to come anywhere close to Herf. That was all before they left Houston for good on Jan 1, 1973 which was always a date they identified with really starting their task together and that by February they were flooded with information to answer many of their questions, coming to both understand independently of one another (though they compared notes) that they had both come from the literal heavens to bring updates to the bible and to fulfill prophecies. That began their journey to learn what the updates were and what prophecies they were to fulfill which compelled them to study all the materials they could find that led to their examination of the Revelation materials when they had arrived a Gold Beach, OR, staying in a campground on the Rogue River painting rocks to sell to tourists to afford to buy cream to live on eating blackberries they would pick as they grew wild everywhere, which I can attest to when I lived on the Oregon coast north of there. I did a lot of blackberry picking when I visited there in 1995. Recalling that reminds me of the depiction of John the Baptist living off of locusts and wild honey. Doesn’t sound very appetizing to me. I’m much rather have berrys and cream but I guess cream is an animal protein product so it’s what’s available and one is used to. Anyway that’s where they realized that Rev 11 description of Two Witnesses was talking about them, though they didn’t like telling anyone about it because they would run away from individuals who they would meet who would claim to be the reincarnation of Cleopatra or some other biblical figure – even wondering how there seemed to be more than one reincarnation of Cleo. Read ’88 update for more on this.

No DO didn’t realize he (his Soul) was from the Kingdom Above Human while in prison in 1974. He had come to that realization with TI by the time they were in Boerne, Texas after leaving houston on jan 1, 1973 while renting or borrowing a friends ranch house trying to understand what they had to do together. Like I just detailed, it was by mid February of 1973 that he knew his Soul had come from the Kingdom of Heaven to do a task.

By the way they separated the term alien from Members of the Next Level though they understood that some would talk about aliens and Next Level members as the same. The huge difference is that the aliens are the dropouts from a previous relationship and elementary service some Souls had. Those souls were given Next Level vehicles of a type that still allowed them to experience a reverse metamorphosis to function as humans, that Adam experienced when he fell (though recovered) which was the same Soul known to us now as DO, who was also Enoch, Moses, Elijah and Jesus (according to TI) and according to DO, TI was his Heavenly Father, Jehovah and Elohim throughout that time that he referred to as his Older Member who fathered him into membership in the Next Level.

The Two Witness prophecy they were fulfilling never said the world would be destroyed and TI and DO said the earth was still a good planet to be used by the Next Level as a garden again after it is refurbished because humans have destroyed it’s further use as a beginning garden. They didn’t think anything that had become good on earth would be wasted and they felt there was more goodness in the world than badness though there are less people who are growing to be good by acting in humanitarian ways towards one another.

There were never 200 members because there was no membership in anything for the first 9 months in 1975-6. I gave that estimate to media in 1997 as being the general amount of people who traveled with the groups for that 9 month period until TI closed the “harvest” on April 21, 1976, though told us to finish the public meetings we had already set up to do. Most of those dropped out while on the road. One could say there were about 100 members but after a few months together in the summer of 1976 TI and Do told 19 of those members they weren’t seeming to be serious enough so they split them out of the group and told us who remained that we “made the first cut”. After several years without them, 2-4 of those 19 later found the group and wanted to rejoin and did and were among the 38 in 1997. I don’t know where the 88 number came from. The only use of the number 88 that I know about was the document DO wrote entitled ’88 Update – The UFO Two and Their Crew which he wrote in 1988 and sent to a bunch of UFO researchers in an early attempt to see if they were the type of people who they would make a bigger effort to go public to again as we did nothing with the public from July of 1976 to 1992.- 17 years in seclusion with no new membership and were down to 24 students then but as we went public some dropouts rejoined in 1993 and then again after 9 months of public meetings about another 12 joined but then some dropped out so it went back down to 38 students with some who wanted to be in the class but kept having a pull back into the world. I left in september of 1994.

Rod and Judy, my best friends before joining in september of 1975 did not give Judy’s two young children to “friends” as you just reported/read. They went to stay with their biological dad who lived near Portland so they weren’t left with any less care than many many children from parents who were divorced. However, I don’t know what happened to them since then but I do know their names were Noah who was over 1 year old and jennifer who was about 5 in september of 1975. Ron is seen in some documentaries as Aaron as he and Judy joined but didn’t stay more than some months at most.

The reason Children couldn’t join was because they aren’t mature enough having had little to no experience in the world to choose to no longer partake in the world. This is one of many clear examples of why Heaven’s Gate stands alone from all other organizations on earth (combined with many reasons to say that) because they had good reasons – even common sense reasons for everything they did even though they didn’t attempt to explain themselves because they were never trying to attract great numbers of students. In fact more students made their job that much harder so instead the sought to filter out those who they felt couldn’t go the distance to graduation because believe it or not it was hard to stay in the group and yet they wanted everyone to stay and yet we didn’t necessarily know it was hard to stay because there was no real carrot – stick motivation, no punishments, no guilting, no pressure from fellow students as it’s true we stopped socializing for years but after TI left those socializing procedures were relaxed from what they were which DO said was because we didn’t need the stricter rules anymore so they were relaxed thereafter which is contrary to what Frank said in the Heaven’s Gate podcast saying after TI left her vehicle he said Do became more controlling. I confronted him for examples and he could give me none because it was a narrative he had formed in his head only because he wanted to justify leaving is my guess based on what DO said about some of those who chose to leave – they would have to justify it to themselves somehow.

Completely wrong. In fact after I left in 1994 their library grew a lot as I know people who have become book collectors. After I left I doubt they spent much time at all on the bible. For the first 10 years I don’t think hardly anyone including myself looked at a bible. We had a handful in our library by 1980, but there was only one bible lesson given and that was by DO while TI was in her vehicle but didn’t come to that meeting. He told us to bring whatever bibles we had to the meeting and said to open it to Revelation 12:1 where he said that TI was the “woman” and that the Dragon was speaking of Lucifer who he preferred to call Satan in case someone had that name of Lucifer or Lucy which he thought was a beautiful name. TI said that Lucifer was still loved by the Next Level but the problem was that Lucifer fell out of love with his Older Member and by love I’m talking about plutonic love, the highest form. Do started us optionally reading the bible without telling us what to read for whoever wanted to do so, in 1987 because he was starting to feel that TI was giving instruction from outside her vehicle since he still felt her close contact with her, to go public again and he was exploring how to go public, with what terminology, generic or religio-spiritual though he preferred generic because it was more accurate since the Next Level are real and not religious as the religions had all become “killers of souls” because people would get addicted to feeling pious and saved and going to heaven in some form and ceased observing – being open to how Jesus would return that without recognizing could miss it entirely because they are so glued to the past lesson plan. If they would take the time to learn about all TI and DO taught and not get freaked out by their own limitations that they largely got from Paul who was influenced by the lower forces then they would see that TI and Do fulfill all the same lessons and plans and recognition of the Next Level that Jesus brought but then had a bunch more to say that were the updates and the way the prophecies would be fulfilled. After I left the group I documented how all the prophecies from Jesus and most of what’s in the Revelation material are being fulfilled by TI and Do’s presence and in the time after they left especially. I can show perhaps the best interpretations and translations of words because of the time I spent learning from TI and DO – I got a bunch of insights. Most of that I received is still available to anyone and it’s all free of charges, over 900 audio tapes and 15 or so video’s and many writings from TI, from DO and from their students.

Interesting that ten turner said there were too many people anyway – a huge confession as it turns out that he would appear to have eugenic thinking like Bill Gates and Bill Gates dad have/had that’s well documented. They don’t mind getting rid of humans who they determine are ‘nuts”. That is the state of the world displayed very well here. And his wife Jane Fonda was a big anti war activist which in my own little way I was too over vietnam and then in Iraq, but this view that they as humans have the objectivity and science knowledge to judge there are too many people anyway shows how little consciousness he had at that time (though perhaps he’s changed). There is no evidence how many people could live peacefully on this planet even if all of them are burning oil like crazy. Thinking there is no Next Level in charge here is even silly. If someone told me when I was young that the automobile came about by accidental development, and oxymoron even at a very young age I would have disagreed or even laughed. I know that because at 7 years old I asked my parents and other parents in the room where babies came from and they weren’t prepared for that question so gave no answer and when I got no answer after a minute I put my hands up in the air and shrugged my shoulders and said, “well things don’t just happen”. And if we know that the human inventions didn’t just happen on their own somehow how can we say that the complicated yet simple designs of the elements needed to construct all the inventions “just happened to come into existence” by some random mutations over millions of years. There are planets where things can evolve but it’s not on their own. They need to be stimulated and that involves many stages but the earth isn’t an example of a true evolutionary garden because the Next Level took out the missing links so humans couldn’t intelligently show all the stages in evolution.

Do’s vehicle was estranged from his former wife and children subsequently I think years before DO met TI, as I understand it but could be wrong about, largely because for a while he was a closeted homosexual and had at least one affair with a college aged student where he taught music that got him fired claiming that he had emotional problems, I suppose because he was seen as emotionally disturbed because he was gay. We know that many humans are of that mindset and especially at a catholic or whatever denomination runs St. Thomas University in Houston where he worked.

I hope Do’s vehicles son talks to God the Father in Heaven – out among the stars and asks about his vehicles dad and is then receptive to what will come that will challenge him. Many who take such a position don’t ask Their Heavenly Father about things that would upset their world view. I know that from experience. It’s similar for Terrie or was as who knows how either of them may have changed so I’m rooting for both of them to wake up some. But what comes to mind was something Jesus said that I believe DO referred to once where he said, “a prophet is not without honor except in their own family”. They have a harder time seeing their relative as something special in this regard. For one the lower forces don’t want anyone to see the truth. But that doesn’t mean things can’t change. We can all change until we lose our vehicle and then we are set and the Next Level will decide how to sort Spirits and Souls into boxes, saved for a future planting and new classroom in a new civilization that they might choose to grow towards graduation from – the only true future the human kingdom can have because the human kingdom was created to be a stepping stone into Membership in the Next Level Above Human where is the only place where true Life exists because they don’t die anymore as hard as that is to imagine but makes perfect sense that this grand planet and these magnificent life forms, our vehicle were created for a reason that is even more magnificent.

We are against suicide for people now as we need our vehicles to learn lessons through. I have tried to talk at least three people from commuting suicide. All three were saying they were miserable in this world but that’s because they weren’t choosing to work for TI and DO. They were influenced to think suicide was a quick fix because the classmembers left seemingly with that label from much of the world. That’s the same thinking as has been taught to millions who believe when they die, if they believe in some savior and they abide by a few rules that when they die they will live happily ever after with that savior and they have bought an illusion. Dying gets one nothing but the spirit world and that’s not better than living though one may think it is because they won’t have those problems anymore because all they will be is a program on the loose that can’t change because we need a vehicle to change our programs to be better programs, programs that can lead to becoming a Member of the Next Level to establish and grow our Mind to run. So death is meaningless to growth but it’s all about who we die for. If we die for fellow humans (not counting those who kill a bunch of people they say for other humans) like lets say by rushing into a burning building to save someone’s life as we die in the process I bet the Next Level swoops up that Spirit or soul and knows they can become Next Level material as they acted against their vehicles programming to live at any cost which means they were applying what was Next Level perspectives that death of the vehicle doesn’t determine death of the soul. Jesus talked about this but of course some people think that was all a made up story to control people. That’s ironic because the story of jesus that many Christians tell is where the made up story is. Like saying he wants us to be successful and even wealthy and have big families and give of our abundance to the church and be born again in their beliefs when all those thoughts are dead ends to Next Level Membership in the real Kingdom of Gods in the Kingdom of/in the literal Heavens – the elevated areas above the earth. Like jesus said “no man takes it from me” speaking of his life in the human vehicle he took over. He said he has the authority to lay it down and the authority to take it up again BECASE he goes to the Father, his Older Member who is more real and alive than any human because He is out of human time and limitations. It’s like a human being able to observe the entire life span of an ant and can observe all their choices and knows what they don’t know. That’s what it’s like for Members of the Next Level but not quite the same as with humans and ants but I say that to get the concept across I hope. To the Next Level we are like horses that are wild and the Next Level captures us by telling us the truth about our reality that some knew was the case but hadn’t remembered it in this lifetime. So the horses that then receive the new training either buck and try to throw the rider in which case the rancher lets them go back into their world to run with their herd. But the ones who learn to respect their riders end up loving serving and all the perks of even feeling a part of the ranchers family. Ti and Do also used that analogy with dogs. My experience with TI and DO was phenomenally totally filled with goodness but not saccharine goodness like we see coming from governments and religions and some people that’s really about their selves at the expense of others.

So I agree that any group that teaches us to hurt our vehicles or another’s vehicle is a group to get out of. But in TI and DO’s group we weren’t taught to hurt ourselves physically or mentally or to do so to anyone else but it’s very obvious to all of us that we will eventually leave this world and some leave at a very young age and others at what we think is an old age. The church used to teach that laying down our own vehicles life for any reason was an original sin that one would go to hell for, yet no where is that taught and especially not taught by Jesus. They would even say that euthenasia was wrong. They’d rather have someone live as a vegetable and/or with on quality of life while their loves ones are miserable with and not going on with their lives than allowing them to exit when they want to. We are against suicide.

Critique of HBO Max Heaven’s Gate Cult of Cults Docuseries Article

Here are my responses to an article with Clay Tweel, the director of the Heaven’s Gate Cult of Cults HBO Max docuseries. I found Clay to be easy to be interviewed by and made me feel comfortable and I liked some of what he did in the series but would have put some different emphasis on things not covered, but am glad he included parts of my story. Below the link are my comments to this article:

THE PSYCHOLOGICAL REASON WHY PEOPLE JOINED A UFO CULT
Heaven’s Gate director Clay Tweel talks psychology of cult membership.
https://www.inverse.com/mind-body/psychology-of-cult-membership

Sawyer:

Steve Hassan seems like an academic who does interviews and comes up with scenerios and diagnosis and no doubt some people who join cults and all sorts of organizations and groups and pass times can fit into his scenerio, but is missing a huge perspective one can only have when they open their minds to the reality of Mind/Spirit – discarnates existances and even Souls – space aliens and Next Level Members with the power of thought forms and all our programming from the genes our growing minds and physical bodies inherit combined with our environmental influences from when our vehicles are babies that shape all present us with choices of what to become and believe about reality.

But even without all that overview of our reality, when one really digs for the details of TI and DO’s experiential Classroom, like by listening to many audio tapes, being one of the best ways to see day to day thinking and operations mixed with their history and all they taught and required of their students, this group, Heaven’s Gate takes the shape of being totally unique.

Their differences were many; in all kinds of ways from philosophy to practices to lifestyles (of course with exceptions) as they were like the sum total of all the most true/real and good parts of all the religions in terms of behaviors and ways with no hypocrisies, except for the ways students failed to grow that resulted in dropping out and even being asked/instructed to leave IF they didn’t want to abide by the Procedures and sometimes with years in between got the opportunity to rejoin, which some did.

Major differences with most all other cults and groups:

Some specific examples of major differences with most all the others, were that there were No abuses, no one held against their will, no children to brainwash, no relationships of former family members, no marriages, no sexuality, no power mongering, no punishments of members, no depravity, no standing on street corners begging, no corporate headquarters and empire building, no riches, no regular recruitment (just over two 9 month periods in 1975 and 1994 over 22 years), people always free to leave but hard to find them to join as they hid so well. There was no guilting, no religiosity, no group bible study, no justification from the bible for what TI and DO said and did (thought did at times reference what Jesus taught), fully parrelled with everything Jesus taught, same requirements as Jesus to be a disciple – to leave all behind, updated term descripted in a generic format and in a religious term format, updates that Jesus said would oocur upon his return, in new vehicles as Jesus said would occur, coming in vehicles that were female and male (TI’s vehicle was female and DO’s male) as said in Revelation 12. They “spoke” what they knew for about the 1260 day period talked about in the Revelation 11 Two Witnesses. They were “overcome/subdued” shot down in the street and then “exited by dying themselves” (Greek: apokteino auto) wit a time and times and half a time in between according to Rev 11 and 12 prophecy. TI left by her vehicle going to the grave (earth opened it’s mouth – to swallow up her vehicle with the flood of negativity against her – Rev 12). TI when she was dealing with cancer in her eye in the early 1980’s was given the “wings of an eagle” to escape, which seems like when They moved to BlackHAWK Colorado at 9,000 foot of elevation (where eagles fly in the high altitudes). Ti was an astrologer – clothed with the sun with the Moon as her footstool (DO to give the students a way to step up to Next Level Membership). And many more of these kinds of prophecy fulfillments that no one else even comes close to and that I only learned about after I left when I started to analyse the Book of Revelation.

We also had no out loud prayer, and a short time when we had a few group meditations with no talking or props. We didn’t dress in a holy way. We dressed modestly. We didn’t chat with one another. We only talked when we had a task to talk. We had no substance usage for recreation – so no booze or pot or drugs or tobacco usage. We had no competition though some students needed to overcome that tendency. We had to ask each other and TI and DO for help (though they reminded us to do so every so often). We did use the doctor and dentist as needed. We experimented with liquid diets and with sleep patterns but were never sleep deprived.

I wasn’t lonely when I joined or ever really. I don’t see being in the group as a “rough life” really. There were some rough times but not even worse than many in the human kingdom experience. It was a mental roughness different from things humans would consider rough because it entailed leaving all our human thinking, behaviors and ways behind (except for minimal creature comforts and the pleasures provided by TI and DO).

So it was a different form of rough. For examples; at first in houses we had a lot less to do – as while living outdoors for years we each washed our own clothes and took sponge bathes every morning and at first cooked our own food and washed dishes and kept our tents clean and participated in driving someplace to find water to fill up our jugs or since I was the camps chain saw operator I’d gather a crew and take a van and go fill it up with dead wood I’d locate. At night we had Night Watch – each partnership taking turns getting up and watching the heavens and noting anything interesting for an hour at a time. At one point in around 1978 we had TV viewing using a generator for power – watching the Price is Right and some Jeopardy. Plus we played board games and games like Simon and Rubix cube and Battleship and Stratego and checkers and chinese checkers and others, as much as we wanted and we read books out of our small library and could write notes to TI and DO and over the years other writing projects. And early on TI and Do would give each partnership $20 for groceries with no directions on what to buy but it was to last for a week so we didn’t often buy things like meat but that was also 1976 in Wyoming and you could buy a lot more for that much money than now.

We didn’t live 5 to a room. The houses we leased were large so we’d have 4 or 5 rest chambers with 4 to 5 double bunks in them. They were only used for sleeping. We spent our time either on duty in the Nutri lab or Fiber lab or Impro Lab (car/house maintence) or Yeast lab or Juice lab or Central (where people would have the tasks to draw up schedules, etc.). Cleaning was optional but expected, so I’d frequently vacuum.

Article said, “Yet so few of them seemed willing, or able, to take a step back and question why they were putting themselves through this. Aside from the promise of extra-terrestrial transportation, of course. But that’s a hard road they took.”

Sawyer:

We were always “able” to think whatever we wanted though the process TI and DO were teaching meant that one wouldn’t think about the past but there was no mechanism to check on what someone was thinking. There were a number of times TI and DO gave instruction to think about if there was something in the world we wanted to do or someone to be with. Then after about 20 minutes they’d say, now go back to blocking those thoughts. They said they did the same thing every so often though didn’t like doing it – felt like they were allowing their minds to go back into a pit. I remind DO said when he met TI he was content. (He had a career as a opera singer with the Houston Opera and giving voice lessons and leading University music departments and choruses. He had friends and was doing fine financially). They would say, which I’ve identified with since, that even if this wasn’t exactly what they thought it was, they would have to pursue what they were coming to understand.

We had no required repetition of mind disciplines or ways to measure one anothers compliance. We did no chanting. We were given the tools to was our own brains so there was no brainwashing techniques imposed on us.

Article with Clay continues “It is. The other thing that fascinated me, was that it was really hard. But I remember Frank saying that you get accustomed to just not having to make a lot of decisions during the day. You are able to shut that part of your brain off. And so when you come out of the group, you have to kind of figure out how to re-engage with society and reengage that part of your brain that has to make the decisions on what to eat. Just like a bunch of little micro decisions. What to wear? What to eat? How to socially interact? So I was like, “Oh gosh, that’s a reason why the trauma of being in these groups often reverberates and lasts with former members for so long.”

Sawyer:

I don’t know what Frank is referring to as not having to make decesions everyday. We worked in partnerships and often had differing ideas about how thoroughly to do a task and plenty more things day to day. Contrary to Franks experience, when I left the group I had no problem at all adjusting to society. I got a job or two, an apartment, started to make a friend or two and rode my bike to work and rented a flute and bought some harmonica’s and some conga drums, went to the movies sometimes, rented movies sometimes. I enjoyed riding my bike some miles to the grocery store to buy food. I remember enjoying picking out my own food but while in the group I had no problem having the menu planned for me. For some that was harder than for others. What to wear was a no brainer. I went to the salvation army to buy some clothing. I worked as a dinner cook at the Marriot Resort Hotel. After some months I moved back to NY and began to play bongo’s for poets at little mini festivals. I went to camp out at one of the last Grateful Dead concerts and met a young woman there and ended up dating her a little. I would go to full moon gatherings in Woodstock NY to play drums. I started dating and it’s true that those dates were mostly terrible but not necessarily because of not being in the group. Even the years living on my own before joining I was shy and it’s true that now since I wasn’t shy about telling someone I was in this group for 19 years that would sometimes be the end to that friendship. Then when I met my x and we shacked up and she got pregnant in 1997 I became a dad to two girls and fully supported everything they needed. I developed a business selling Blue Green Algae health products but I was a poor salesperson so it didn’t work out and so I got conventional jobs.

Trauma? It’s unfortunate that Frank felt that but perhaps he’d been dealing with questioning being there for years and only stayed because his girlfriend who as he said he still loved was still there so perhaps that weighed on him. I joined with my girlfriend but it wasn’t that hard to break up with her and we both soon lost any interest in one another in a human way. I didn’t have any desire to leave and I had some opportunities many to do so. I loved being in the Classroom. TI and DO were amazing and my classmates to include Frank were really good people to live with for the most part.

Clay says in article: “…You can draw pretty strong parallels to like what’s happening with QAnon and Trump pretty easily.”

Sawyer: On this point I’d like to see those parallels. Trump was NOTHING AT ALL LIKE DO AND TI. It’s like comparing apples (DO) to burnt up wood (Trump or Biden or Pence or Harris, etc). And comparing with QAnon is abserd. It was the OPPOSITE. I looked into QAnon some years ago to see what the fuss was all about and all that cryptic language with people becoming popular for appearing to translate it. TI and DO were direct and to the point. They had no mysterious sayings or cryptic messages. They said what they knew and they knew what they didn’t know and they knew where to go to learn what they didn’t know… Their Next Level Older Members. When someone asked a question that was vague, they would ask for specifics. They seldom talked philosophically and when DO spoke of a tiny few of the Revelation records sometimes he even said this was at that time for “amusement” and wasn’t important and that John who wrote the book wasn’t able to get it all right but that the events would all be taking place which we see happening more and more now – like Rev 16:2 – plague that gives people with the mark (allegience to the Govt), “noisome and grevious sores” (Stress and diseases – like Jesus said there would be pestilence). And DO said in Beyond Human session 11, I think, that part of what we might see happening after he left was “people dying in droves” and wow has death escalated.

Both my x’s parents died last week about a week (January 2021) apart from diseases they had all along. They were treated so badly because of the Covid restrictions but she died of dementia – stopped wanting to eat and he died of pneumonia. Both had at one point tested positive for Covid but who knows if that increased their sickness as we know when they used to count flu deaths they were as high as over 60,000 in 2017-18 season according to CDC website.

More accusations against Sawyer’s blog, video’s, Revelations Book by Carlan aka Crlody

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Carlan’s next comment on same youtube channel as above:
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Why should anyone listen to you when the group left a lot of information behind that they very specifically asked to be disseminated? Answer, you had some dreams that you expect us to believe were contacts from the NL. No thanks, I’d rather go to the pure, undiluted source rather than listen to your PERSONAL take on what the class was about.

Why do you think that you are more qualified to talk about the lessons in the Class than Ti and Do are? Answer, according to you “we have all the information that we need”. So, to you what Do said on the tapes to the students from 1985 to 1997 is not information we need but by your actions your blog, videos and book are info we need. No thanks, I’d rather listsen to Do than to your diluted ramblings about the Next Level. Do knew what He was talking about far more than you ever will. Do made sense to me, He was coherent. Your 19 years are NOTHING compared to the wisdom of Ti and Do. You arent qualified to explain what the class was about. Why do you think They left all of that info? They didnt leave you behind. Youre here because you are afraid to follow Them out of here. But like Rio and the Kings youve had to make up a big mission for yourself that you claim is for the NL in order to justify staying here and you get enboldened by all the individuals who follow your blog and videos. Theres nothing brave about what youre doing and even though youve been conned into believing that what youre doing is for the NL youre actually doing all of this for yourself. You dont get to be the arbiter of all things Heavens Gate just because you spent more time in the class than anyone else on the planet. I hate this place. Its a corrupt cesspool that corrupts our souls every day. The class’ info is still being suppressed and distorted and no one seems to care. All you seem to care about is getting recognition for your 19 years in thd class and continuing to add to your blog and your youtube channel and marketing your book as if its some kind of addendum to the HG Book. Ill pass on your book and your videos. You cant help me get closer to the NL. Get over yourself sawyer.?

 

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Sawyer’s reply:
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I guess you can ask anyone who watches these broadcasts why they would listen to me. So you are putting words in my mouth again. I doubt anyone at all listens to me because I had dreams. I’m not talking about it because of dreams (though I admit without the first bunch, I may not have come out of my fallen condition (to the degree I had fallen)).

I encourage everyone all the time to go to the pure information from Ti and Do and Crew. But that doesn’t automatically mean I’m necessarily “diluting” the pure unless I try to reinterpret what they said or give my “feelings” of what they said and interject my opinions about what they said (without including something else they said). If I am diluting wouldn’t that be on a case by case basis? I’m not saying I never have and I’m not saying I never will and I am saying that I’m always open to hearing from anyone that can show me where I might have departed from what’s pure from Ti and Do (and from Jesus).

re: Jesus – I don’t know if you knew that Ti and Do said we could trust everything Jesus was recorded to have said in the 4 gospels. I remember reading or hearing DO on a tape talk about how some of that record has been tampered with, but he still knew that the core of his teachings were fully in tact. Ti and Do said, the Next Level worked very hard to insure that that record was not lost or changed. They spoke of that parts we could count on as the Red Letters, referring to the way some bible editions of the King James put Jesus words in red letters. (you can check this out. You might find it in the audios. But you could also ask Mark and Sarah or any others that were in the classroom in the earliest years to confirm.

I never said I was more qualified to talk about the lessons in the class than Ti and Do are. You are saying I think that. Are you claiming to be psychically reading me? The truth is that I just can’t help but talk about my experiences. Maybe I just need to do that. Let’s say it’s a big ego trip for me. I’m not saying it is, but you have said that about me so I’ve considered it. If so, that’s between me and Ti and DO. Why is what I do so wrong in your mind by your standard, whatever that is? Show me how Ti and Do would disapprove? You can’t so you just make stuff up or take tiny stabs at the way I word my blog titles and descriptions and anything that might even hint at what you have a preconceived idea exists to prove yourself right to yourself.

Because of your constant and repeated over years disdain of anything I say or do (with perhaps a few tiny exceptions) I’ve wondered at times what you think “Standing for Ti and Do” means? Did we have any examples from Ti and Do and Jesus of what taking that “Stand” means to them?

I don’t know if you have ever answered any of my questions that come about because of your comments over the last 10+ years.

All you do is repeat the same stuff that tells me what I’m thinking and saying and doing and why as if you are judge and jury and the almighty student of Ti and Do.

When I hear this I tend to think, I better speak more because I know 100% is true that the Luciferian space alien fallen angels and all the discarnates on their team (know it or not) and all the humans who become their tools to work against the truth of the Next Level, want nothing better than for those who have the direct experience to shut up or twist – dilute and distort the truth from Ti and Do (as with Jesus and with Moses, etc.) and/or turn them against the Next Level in every which way conceivable.

I should be doing more video’s and will because something good is coming from it. I’m not saying Ti and Do need me or anyone else to bring that about. I am sure about that. The task of “standing for Ti and Do” is available to all of us who remain after their exit. But the facts are that the Next Level is not done with this human kingdom. They by DO’s account know there are people who will be among the “Second Type” – those who recognize DO as from the Next Level and are attempting to separate from the world but who were not ready to exit when they did or are not today ready to exit in the way they did. And then there is the “Third type” Do spoke about as those who were separating from their humanness in their own way who may not ever hear about Ti and Do.

So even if all the things you have said about me were true, so what? Let’s say I get to be a big shot and get to be in a movie or play my flute in some big venue’s or get to go on TV shows, blah, blah, blah, if I’m not saying things Ti and Do would disapprove of, like saying the “gate is closed” which some have said directly and indirectly and more people are taking another look at Ti and Do or a first look, how can that be wrong. Even if I became equivalent to a Luciferian space alien fallen angel because of all that fame going to my head in some way, why is this such a thorn in your side that you have to keep saying the same stuff over and over and over with less and less evidence that most any it would be of any concern to Ti and Do?

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crl ody’s comment to youtube video:
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It is the King’s choice to suppress the tapes, not Ti and Do’s. Are Ti and Do going to interfere with Mark and Sarahs free will? If we have “more than enough” of their mind written then by that logic we dont need any more written about what Ti and Do were about. We dont need books from former students. We dont need blogs from former students. We dont need videos made by former students. Former students can only give limited and diluted and quite possibly incorrect info on what Ti and Do were about. Ive seen this happen time and time again. RKK always felt that he was unqualified to explain what Ti and Do were about, hence his only interest was in disseminating the info as per the Class’ final requests. No one on this planet is qualified to or sanctioned by Ti and Di to explain what They were about. We did not act on dreams we had in the Class. We did not receive our instructions from the NL in dreams. Do addresses this on one of the audio tapes. These are Sawyers videos. They are not made by Ti and Do. These are Sawyers viewpoints, not Ti and Dos.?

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Sawyers reply:
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Crl Ody and anyone who comes upon this:

-I never said nor implied it was Ti and Do’s choice to suppress the tapes.

However, I believe it was a “test” they gave to Mark and Sarah in particular, since DO gave them the CHOICE of how to handle them as evidenced in the letters. In the letter addressed to Mrc/Srf are the main 5 points that show what was left as their task to choose to do, how and when.

All the audio tapes were in the storage they are speaking of here as “items” (point #1) and “items of value” (point #2)) and it’s clear that anyone who felt inclined to disseminate their information. Note they didn’t say anywhere what the limits were to disseminating their information, nor how to do it ie. blogs, videos, audios, spoken word, books, meetings, etc. That was left up to each individual.

1) “We put into storage items that we would prefer the authorities not have access to. You can do with those items whatever feels right to you. The only exception to this is some exercise equipment which belongs to our landlord, Sam, and we suspect he will want at some point.”

2) “Pursers have included an additional document as part of this packet that further covers the disposition of our cars and this truck. So we ask that you refer to that document for details. It is our desire that any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information. Any of the funds you retrieve can be used towards that end and for the living expenses of those involving themselves in this project.”

3) Referring to a CBC producer/director named Debbie Geller, who wanted them (the class) to participate in a documentary, who worked out of the New York office, they wrote,

“So, for this reason, we are recommending that they be involved to some degree in the coverage of this event, that is, if their attitude seems to remain somewhat objective and you find working with them not too difficult. Of course, this is contingent upon whether or not you should choose to say anything to the media on our behalf. We would hope that the public would have an opportunity for more thorough knowledge of who we are and what we’re about.”

4) “Also we want to make it clear that we’re certainly not asking you to do these tasks if, after receiving this information, circumstances make It too difficult or other options seem more appropriate for you. We want you to feel free to exercise any available options with whatever timing feels right for your own next step. No doors are closed to you.”

5) “We also asked OSC to register the Heaven’s Gate book with the Library of Congress and that if he needed any funds to accomplish this, that you would cover it out of the project funds that you have on hand.”

6) In the letter addressed to RKK where he received their “hopes” he could accomplish, i.e. the press release, updates to the web site and some people they had been in touch with):

“Of course, this is contingent upon whether or not you should choose to say anything to the media on our behalf. We would hope that the public would have an opportunity for more thorough knowledge of who we are and what we’re about”

Thus speaking on their behalf was part of what they hoped He and thus any who felt to participate in their “project” (that referred to after their exit) would do. It’s also interesting that there were detailed instructions on how to handle their video tape exit statements and the Beyond Human Video tape series masters, indicating their wish that they are to be distributed for the “widest coverage” but said nothing about the audio tapes in storage. (I think it wasn’t spelled out because it was meant to be a test for all involved then and thereafter)

Here is the link to my blog post that includes a bit more:

Do and Crew’s instructions on handling storage locker content provided choices and thus Tests for All

-I don’t know if Ti and Do would “interfere with Mark and Sarah’s free will. They interfered with the Luciferians free will when they wiped out the Nephilim (human hybrids translated to “giants” in Genesis chapter 6 written by Moses that Ti and Do said some of was distorted) they seeded, with the Great Noah Flood? Ti and Do indicated The Kingdom of God interfered with allowing the Luciferians to suppress what Jesus said, so we could count on the current record in the four gospels.

How can you be so sure they wouldn’t interfere with Mark and Sarah’s continued suppression of the remaining audio tapes?

At this moment in time, as far as I’m aware, since we don’t know of anyone who has claimed to have those audio tapes, I believe that as of this moment we don’t actually need any more of their Informational Mind to show them what we need to show them. As you know DO said their information wasn’t meant to become a subject of study. We need to serve them and there is plenty to do to serve them with the existing materials.

I continue to “Stand for Ti and Do” which includes the dissemination of Their “Mind”. No one on earth is my judge in that regard. Their Mind is revealed in all the documentation they left behind that I have plenty of evidence in their materials left behind for us, counts the “records” they often spoke about and I recall clearly they said was from their Kingdom that includes what they said was the “Red Letters” in the gospel record and the related parts, they and Jesus referred to in the Book of Revelations and potentially any of the records that show the same consistent teachings. In 88Update, Do even quoted Paul’s writings in 1Cor 7:29 and 1Cor 7:32-35 about celibacy and marriage while knowing that Paul’s writings brought about significant distortion and dilutions of the true information from Jesus.

-You said “Students can only give limited and diluted and quite possibly incorrect info on what Ti and Do were about”. I agree that that can happen and does happen but the key word in that statement that is not factual to Ti and Do’s teachings is saying that “students can ONLY give limited…” It seems to me that saying this shows how you have made your cause into an all or nothing way of thinking about this. Ti and Do hardly spoke in such absolutes unless they knew it, so how is it that you act like you “know it”.

As I’ve said many times, show me the errors of my ways by showing me how Ti and Do taught otherwise (to any degree) and I’ll pay attention to that piece. If you don’t provide that evidence it’s just your opinion so what makes it any better than mine? It may even be giving incorrect information to make that unfounded very general blanket accusation.

-And who are you speaking of as “we” in saying these forms of communication are not needed. Isn’t that an individuals choice to determine what they derive value from or not? And why is it that Ti and Do always wanted students to serve in the dissemination of their Next Level mind by writing and talking and even thinking – (the strains of humans could benefit from thoughts and behaviors and ways of their students, as they could also be hampered by them, though all can be made a positive of), as shown in the audio tapes we have access to.

Why are you trying to suppress the expression of the many connections of Ti and Do’s material to the “records” and what they said and did that they never recorded in the years before they started taping that those who were with them then heard and experienced?

-I agree that dreams are not a way to receive instructions or new information yet you keep repeating that as if I did say that.

Rkkody did write about the Next Level. There is the document, “what if they’re right” and the other I’m aware of was “During a brief window of time some may wish to follow us”.

Here is the later one with Rkkody interpreting what DO said. But before I provide it, maybe you can answer a question I have – who is “we” in this document? I only ask that in case it was you, NOT to criticize Rkkody. I am NOT saying I disagree with what he says here. Plus, why is it that you allowed yourself to be photographed holding Deb’s book “Closing the Gate”?:

“When Do said: “During a brief window of time, some may wish to follow us” we don’t feel
this is limited only to former class members and to the best of our knowledge He did not
assign anyone the task of announcing when that gate was closed. None of us are qualified to
determine how long this brief window exists.

When we have our Older Member with us, we are not assigned tasks by having a little voice
come into our heads saying “I think I have this task to do.” We learned very early not
to trust any thoughts that would come into our heads or listen to little voices telling us
we should do this or that. Ti and Do did not ask anyone to leave the class because They
felt an individual might have another Next Level mission outside of the classroom, however,
some were asked to separate from the class in order to work on their overcoming at a
distance.

Those who chose to leave the class, left entirely because they chose NOT to continue
serving their Older Member.

[Are we who left not serving our Older Member if we disseminate their information?]

We learned by experience that when an Older Member is present on the planet, any
communication from the Next Level is directed through Their representative. It is
considered very inappropriate to make suggestions to this Representative (Ti and Do), for
tasks we may want to do. If The Next level wanted us to do a task They would assign it
through our Older Member directly (verbally), not by mental telepathy or little voices in
our heads. We are not aware that Do assigned anyone the task of announcing when the “Brief
Window” is closed. No one can say with certainty that this “brief window” is closed.
Only an Older Member from the Next Level would be in a position to state when that gate is
closed. And we are not aware of any Older Members here now.”

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jason (crlody) comments on 3spm (sawyer’s youtube channel):

“Once we leave, then base your decisions using the criteria of the information we’ve left behind for you” DRR. “only through a REP, or information left behind by a REP, can an individual learn what it takes to become a new creature that is acceptable to enter the Kingdom of Heaven”-SMM.

“Any information that seems to come through that cant be helpful in the overcoming process might have earmarks of being separate or unnecessary information, and I don’t feel that our Father’s Kingdom sends unnecessary information. That’s what happens when questions come up that have relatively no significance, no real relationship to our overcoming. We can get into theorizing about things that might go on in the heavens that really have nothing to do with our overcoming. And we can play the game of exploring a little bit, but it opens the door to possibly listening to other voices or letting SELF come in, and/or playing the game of “what if” or guessing what it might be……We feel like it really isn’t important; it’s of no issue to your overcoming”-Do.

Hmmmm, sort of like speculating about Ceres and on and on. Fun little games but irrelevant as far as one’s overcoming. “If you can look at it in that light, and just simply be amused by it, because we’re not trying to lock in on what we’re doing with fulfillment of the prophecies in the Book of Revelation” Do.

So, when Do was here He didn’t care much about these kind of speculations but now that He’s gone the Next Level has tasked you, Sawyer, with interpreting Revelation in order to prove who Ti and Do are along with all the other speculations that you have engaged in. And I’m supposed to believe that all these things that you speculate on are part of a task for the Next Level? Your interpretations of Revelation and things that are happening on Ceres or anywhere in the heavens aren’t going to help anyone with their overcoming. And if they can’t help anyone with their overcoming then they have “no real significance”, they are “fun little games but irrelevant”. I think that sums up your self-appointed mission derived from your dreams quite well, it’s a fun little game that you’re playing Sawyer but it is irrelevant. And if it’s irrelevant I think it’s a pretty strong possibility that your mission wasn’t imparted to you by Ti and Do. And if your self-appointed task didn’t come from Ti and Do then where did it come from Sawyer??

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Sawyer’s reply:

CRL ODY and anyone who comes upon this:

I don’t know what you are trying to prove by Drrody and Smmody’s quotes. I do use as my critera the information left behind. Read and watch everything and see for yourself. It’s why I don’t post the myriad of things I come across that I can’t link in some way to things I observed and learned in the classroom which at this time includes everything Jesus said in the red letters and in his direct references to the Book of Revelations that Ti and Do also referenced parts of and never said couldn’t include all of it, though admittedly I can be off to degrees in some of what I think I understand. That’s part of what we are up against now. Millions think those scriptures mean this and that when I can see more of what they mean. The same with the many “SIGNS” in the heavens. Ti and Do introduced me to the SIGNS via paying attention to the way the Next Level delivered lessons during the solstices and equinox. In the 1990’s DO instigated our examination of preachers talking about prophecy. Srrody even started to teach himself to read Hebrew that DO instigated the option to do. What did that have to do with our “overcoming”. Everything, I say because DO instigated it. Ti and Do instigated the view of a Comet as a sign, not me, when they spoke about how comet kohoutek came to perihelion when their car broke down in St. Louis and they rented that car using one of DO’s old credit cards that resulted in their arrest later.

It was TI and DO that said their first 3 points of awakening were that they were from outer space, the Kingdom of Heaven, here to “bring updates to the bible” and to “fulfill prophecy”. They never listed all the updates to the bible. But they did assign Dncody the task of “rewriting the bible” as I understood it, though I never heard anything further about that until Dncody left.

And you will note I spent a great deal of time with the fact that the New Horizon’s spacecraft photographed Pluto with the teachings from Ti and Do that Pluto could have been a spacecraft Lab, so again not from my mind to think.

The Overcoming Classroom was not a time to spend hardly any time on prophecy or Jesus teachings or the Revelations so yes it was amusing to do. But now when there are millions who say they believe in Jesus yet refuse to look at his (The same Soul who was incarnate in the vehicle named Jesus) I believe is crucial to offering them that “look”. However, that’s not why I wrote a book about it. I wrote the book because I had to write the book and I don’t care that many hate me and it for doing so. I’m in good company for it, that I know. So go ahead carlan, get your beef off, shoot your arrows, join the thousands who do the same if that’s what so floats your boat. It’s your choice just like I’m making my choices. I wonder if you ever think about what Do might say today about what I’ve written? Do you ever consult with DO about what you write against me? I do think about what Do might say about the things I write to you and admit have to hold the way the influences would have me use my tongue.

Are you against people seeing more about Ti and Do because they had a sense about things Jesus said and his prophecies and the signs of the times? Some have told me that’s what brought them to looking at Ti and Do, so nothing you can say will stop me from continuing. I will stop when Ti and Do decide it’s enough and I’m no longer capable or exit this vehicle by whatever means.

My whole book is full of these kinds of observations linking things (Signs) Ti and Do and/or Jesus said a tiny bit about that I ended up seeing as interpretations of the Revelations and Jesus gospel teachings so your finding fault with my efforts is once again far astray.

But even so, at the very least you can write me off as “playing the game of exploring a little bit,” as Do indicated was okay, didn’t he. He didn’t say it was wrong to do did he? He didn’t give instruction to those who might believe and want to serve after His overcoming classroom had finished, what they could be interested in exploring, did he? He did give instructions on what the formula was and he put it into Three types with the overall formula being stated by Jwnody in ‘”Away Team” from Deep Space Surfaces Before Departure’: that is summed up as the overriding qualification being to “Stand for Ti and Do” until we exit.

I know what that means and it’s hardly a static sending files to people or talking on video’s or writing blogs but that time of test of each one of us is only just beginning, I assure you.

Many people can see right through your making absolute statements about what will help anyone with their overcoming. That’s evidence of the same self righteous indignation as we see throughout the religions that you never saw out of Ti or Do’s mouth yet you use it as a mockery of me.

I try to discern between those “other voices” Do might be referring to. I’ve heard a bunch. Sometimes I can be off track in that regard, I know and sure I can let SELF come in and I know well how “what if” can distract from accepting the truth and we can make up excuses for anything but doing the tasks we’ve been given to “STAND for TI and DO” is the overriding task at this time is it not.

By the way, if you are going to quote DO then I think it would be DISTORTING what he said to capitalize a word that wasn’t capitalized in the original document. I know I have “SELF”, don’t you? Who are you working for to spend all this time and energy with nothing to say but draw straws that might be construed as criticism of me with the hope for what – to get me to stop talking about Ti and Do and MY relationship with them?

To follow is the segment CRL ODY was partially quoting from Beyond Human, Session 7, which brings a better context as well as there were many instances in the classroom to be heard in the audio tapes, even on the Blackhawk tapes where DO did explore certain subjects stimulated by classmates questions and sometimes He or Ti would say it’s not important to our task. It is quite clear that the “classroom” with the Older Members has passed and now it’s in a different phase. We don’t have instructions on what to eat and what not to eat, what kind of things we find pleasure in, what kind of out of craft tasks to seek, what kind things to study or research or inquire about. But that doesn’t mean Ti and Do want us to stop our seeking of the truth through any avenues we choose.

Here’s Do’s statement:

“There’s so much that I can’t understand from where I sit, because even playing the role of teacher and a vessel with students and potentially with more students, relatively very little information is funneled through that Teacher role. Because only the information that is funneled can be helpful. Any information that seems to come through that can’t be helpful in the overcoming process might have earmarks of being separate or unnecessary information, and I don’t feel that our Father’s Kingdom sends unnecessary information. That’s what happens when questions come up that have relatively no significance, no real relationship to our overcoming. We can get into theorizing about things that might go on in the heavens that really have nothing to do with our overcoming. And we can play the game of exploring a little bit, but it opens the door to possibly listening to other voices or letting self come in, and/or playing the game of “what if” or guessing what it might be. I know that at times we, Ti and I, have guessed. When we do guess at questions that the students might ask, we try to say, “We don’t know. We’re guessing. It hasn’t been clarified to us.” And ultimately, after discussing it for a moment, we usually say, “We feel like it really isn’t important; it’s of no issue here to your overcoming.” What is shared is so limited – we know so little of that Kingdom.”

Jesus was also in the teaching role so to examine what he said to “observe” in his coming, which Ti and Do talked about as coming after they left, is part of that, though that coming was not a “teaching task” incarnate as they had. They said that in the document that was printed in UFO Missionaries Extraordinary. Here is a link to little parts of it I transcribed so you can see I didn’t make it up and am not “guessing” about it either or listening to other voices.

UFO Missionaries Extraordinary

I only answer you, so your voice is not left unchecked in this public square, the same as I do with all the trolls and mockers and judgemental scoffers. You are most often making “false accusations” against your neighbor (me), but I guess you don’t know any better so I’m not angry with you. You appear to hold yourself as the only former member who is righteous. You had no forgiveness for XF, nor me for the few things I have admitted not being proud of saying. (That’s not saying I think a lot of what I say is of value necessarily). Even though it’s easy to point out things Mark and Sarah and Rio have said as not from Ti and Do’s mind or the opposite, you resorted to name calling and condemnation of them when you have no right in Ti and Do’s mind to do so.

Bring specific things up to me and I’ll address them one by one. If you don’t agree then at least you’ve offered me something. These quotes from DO are welcomed but so far are hard to see as applying to now in the exact same way they applied to the classroom.

Do spoke of Armageddon. The only place that’s mentioned is in the Revelations. He spoke of how the Next Level would come back (after his exit). He spoke about the way the Luciferian fallen angel space aliens would be creating their last ditch effort to capture souls. He spoke about the most accurate meaning of rapture. He spoke about the Revelation 12 woman, but that one you may not know about and lots more so I’m following in excellent footsteps even though I am perhaps doing a poor job.

Another set of accusations against sawyer by crlody that are totally false and why:

Rkkody’s Standing for Ti and Do and Sawyers reply to more Crlody accusations

Beyond Human – The Last Call – Session 12

Transcript of Video Tape Series

_______________________________________________________________

Beyond Human – The Last Call – Session 12   (110 Min)
_______________________________________________________________

Welcome to Beyond Human.  This is our twelfth Session.  As
far as I can tell, this is our last session, but that might
change.  My feeling is that it will be the last session of this
series.  We want to get right on with the series.  We have things
to talk about that kind of round out our whole summary, our
bottom line.  I want to welcome the students who will be helping
me with this session today.  I’m going to ask that they feed me
questions, as we have prepared our little outline, hopefully in
accordance with my Older Member’s instruction.  So let’s get
right to it.  What is the first question on our list?

Student:  Did we want to say more about the generic versus the
religious terminology?

Do:       Yes, we discussed it on one of our previous sessions.  I
think the important thing here is that we realize what we now
call “religious terminology” – as far as those terms that we
associate with the Bible, with the background of the Old and New
Testaments,  the terminology used at one time, or at its origin,
or as it was given to humanity as the Next Level was present with
those individuals, it was not religious terminology – it was
generic terminology.  It’s because of the passage of time and
because of the lack of closeness of the Next Level that the
vocabulary and the terminology, the vernacular, so to speak, has
become religious terminology and tainted, less than true, less
than accurate.

I have to bring up again that the first time Ti, my Older
Member, used the phrase “Next Level,” our computers (brains)
said, “Well, you know, people aren’t going to understand
something like a reference to Next Level.  What does that mean”?
And yet, if instead of saying the “Next Level,” we say the
“heavenly kingdom,” we get into religious terminology.  We get
into a degree of spirituality that is less than real, less than
true.  So, in an attempt to get to true, objective terminology,
we use the “Next Evolutionary Level” or the “Evolutionary Level
Above Human.”  Remember, human evolutionary level, Evolutionary
Level Above Human.  This whole series is about beyond human,
synonymous with Evolutionary Level Above Human.  There is no
clearer terminology that we’re aware of than Evolutionary Level
Above Human.

I’m reminding you that the use of the term “evolutionary”
has nothing to do with Darwin and his theories or his principles.
It has to do with life, as it is discussed in science text books
and biology or zoology as “kingdom” levels and “evolutionary”
levels – animal kingdom, animal evolutionary level; human
evolutionary level, Evolutionary Level Above Human.   Whether we
like it or have trouble with it or not, depending upon our
listener or our viewer who may have difficulty with some concept
of reincarnation – and let me remind you not to apply some of the
concepts of reincarnation you have heard of – but there is a type
of reincarnation that we have told you is certainly for real.
Did not Jesus take a human vehicle (body)?  If He had pre-
existence, had He never had a vehicle before He took that human
vehicle?  Of course, He had had a vehicle before He took that
human vehicle.  Was He not a member with a Next Level vehicle in
our Father’s Kingdom before He took that human vehicle?  He
reincarnated, even though His task was worse than that, because
He had to incarnate down a kingdom level, or down an evolutionary
level, in order to take the vehicle that we call Jesus.  So, the
reason we discuss the generic as against the religious
terminology is to try to help bridge the gap.

Recently, someone who is going to join the classroom said,
“But I really have trouble with the Bible.  I have trouble with
religious concepts, with religious terminology, because in my
childhood, in my background…the history, I was so turned off by
it.”  And so with that individual we can talk in generic terms,
we can talk “Evolutionary Level Above Human.”  We can talk
everything else that we talk and it doesn’t seem to give much
problem.  But when we say things like “Father” or “Kingdom of
Heaven,” or we say “Kingdom of God,” because of being run away
from those terms, because of bad experiences, they became a
problem for that individual.  Now, that individual has to
overcome that problem.  But in the same sense, we have to
appreciate that fact, and we can even understand why someone
would be turned off by that kind of terminology.

And here is the other extreme; that is, someone who is so
into religious terminology that that’s what connects.  And they
have to overcome that, they have to rise above the religious
terminology and be willing to see the truth in the generic
terminology without any hang-up either way – just seeking a clear
understanding of how God’s program of growth and development,
both for the vehicles and for the souls, was designed.  That’s
the reason we have to address the issue for you again, because it
doesn’t matter what your prior orientation was, as far as
understanding of terms, or your background.  These are just some
of the hurdles we have to make.  So we try to kind of walk both
sides of the fence for those who came from the religious
background.  We try to help them connect by using those terms,
and yet when we do, we try to also supplement them with more
generic terms for those who had bad experiences and were turned
off by religions.  I think enough said on that topic.

What’s the next one on our list of questions?

Student:  Do we want to discuss the different routes to the
classroom or maybe the two extremes that you mentioned?

Do:       Yes, we do and I’m glad you asked that question.  What
he means by the different routes to the classroom, we’re using
“classroom” here synonymously with when individuals or souls are
in an overcoming process, when they are on their way out of the
human kingdom on their way to the Kingdom of God, or the
Evolutionary Level Above Human.  The reason we’re discussing the
extreme routes here is to give you some understanding of what
happens to a soul during its awareness of the closeness of the
Next Level.  It’s quite obvious that the Next Level has to be
very close at this time and has been since the early 70’s.  It
has certainly been extremely close to this planet, and to varying
degrees to different areas, depending upon who we’re talking
about, individuals and what presences.  But since it has been
close, people respond in a different way.  There’s an analogy
here that might be helpful.  Most of us have seen Close
Encounters of the Third Kind.  There is a scene in there (and
sometimes I wish that we had a great big picture of the shot) that
was on a helicopter where there were all these individuals that
for some, or for differing, reasons had to go to Devil’s Tower.
They were led to Devil’s Tower.  They didn’t know why, they didn’t
know what, but that’s where they had to go.  They were compelled
to go.  Now, some went intellectually – some of the scientists
went intellectually.  They were hearing beep-beeps and they had
kind of a communication with the physical reality of certain ones
outside of this Earth’s Age of the human kingdom as we know it.
So, from an intellectual, or a technical, or a pragmatic approach,
they went to Devil’s Tower because of their curiosity and their
interest in what they might find there.  Others didn’t even know
why they had to go there, but they had to go there.

The same parallel exists as souls prepare themselves for
overcoming, for this transition from the human kingdom to the
Level Above Human.  Some might hear these tapes, and the
information they hear makes sense to them.  And they might say,
“I’ve been waiting for this and I know that it’s right.”  Others
might hear merely five seconds of it and that’s all it takes, and
they say, “This is what I’ve been waiting for!”  Some might hear
the whole thing and it takes them a long time and they’re not
quite so sure.  Different degrees of preparedness, meaning
different degrees of preparedness from previous experiences.

But before we get into that, let’s talk a moment about
another extreme.  There might be someone who has left everything
behind, such as a street person, and for some reason or other he
cannot be motivated to reconstruct his place in society.  Even
though he tried, it just hasn’t worked.  He couldn’t muster up
enough motivation, and he fell into guilt because his life was
falling apart and he didn’t know what to do about it.  He didn’t
want to become a street person, he finds himself there.  We feel
that our classroom for overcoming, our classroom for this
transition, is a haven-shelter, a haven-home for street people.
But those street people who might come by that route, as we
called it, into this classroom would live exactly by the same
rules, the same training program, the same everything in
preparedness for the Next Level.  They have to do the complete
overcoming task, is what we’re getting at.  So, it doesn’t really
matter, because some of those from the streets might be more like
some of those on that helicopter in Close Encounters who didn’t
know why they were there.  It was almost subconsciously, or what
some people would call at a subconscious psychic level, of tuning
into the fact that they had to do it.  And it could be at the
subconscious level that some individuals, some souls, find
themselves at our doorstep not knowing why, and then after they
step in and learn why, it all fits.  Others might know all the
why’s, and then when they learn the particulars about it, they
end up with exactly the same difficulty, exactly the same
problems or lessons or areas of overcoming, the same degree of
overcoming necessary as those who came from a standpoint of
knowledge or information.  So here are two extreme routes: one
who might come in having nothing, and ones who come here and have
to give up everything.  What’s the difference?  They both lost
everything, they both left everything in order to enter the
transition of preparedness to move into that Kingdom Level.

When we first had this information in 1975, and gave it for
a short time for those who responded, then we referred to it as
the caterpillar-becoming-butterfly transition.  We used that
illustration and the metamorphic illustration, even though we
knew it had little pitfalls, because it made us too aware or too
focused on the physical aspect of that metamorphosis instead of
the soul.  Not that they aren’t both equally a part of it.  But
the point is the change.  It’s just like that caterpillar has to
drop caterpillar ways when it enters that chrysalis – the
chrysalis being the overcomers’ classroom.  I can’t get in that
chrysalis and get on with my change until I have dropped
everything outside that chrysalis.  I can step in that chrysalis
and still have thoughts of caterpillar activity, but I have to
abort them, abort them, abort them, until there is no caterpillar
activity.  And so the same would be true from whichever route you
approach the classroom, or the chrysalis, or the transitional
overcomers’ route from the human evolutionary level into the
Evolutionary Level Above Human, the House of the Most High God.
Whichever is your terminology, they are both accurate, they are
both real.  Did we leave anything out of that one?

Student:  No, I think that covered it very well.

Do:       Ok, you’re next.  Let’s go to the next question.

Student:  I know you touched a little bit about the street
people, but what about the addicts, the sexaholics, and the
alcoholics, etcetera?

Do:       I’m glad you brought that up because it’s the same issue.
You know, if at a subconscious level I am somehow unsatisfied
with what the world has to offer, I can’t really play all of the
human so-called ideal ways.  I can’t just be a good husband, a
good father, bring home a good wage, have a good insurance
policy, pay for my grave, pay for the trust that would take care
of everyone behind me, and “I did it all right, I even took care
of the ending, it was all covered” – if I can’t get into that and
I know that there’s something more than that because that’s where
I am, I’m ready for something more.  Maybe some souls aren’t
ready for something more, and therefore that is satisfactory.
But for those souls who know there is something more and they
don’t know what it is, and they don’t know why they are in this
time lock or this waiting period thinking, “What is it that I’m
supposed to find that I’m not finding?  I’m hunting here, I’m
hunting there….”  Who can’t understand while you’re in that agony
and that anxiety why you wouldn’t find yourself a sexaholic, an
alcoholic, into drugs, into losing respect for career, losing
respect for some of those aspects that society says you must do?
I’m not justifying participating in activity that is against the
law or would disturb others or would interfere with others, or
would make trouble for others or with the legal system in which
we live.  But I certainly can see that, I’ll be honest with you,
if I did not have this knowledge in my conscious mind and my
pursuit under way and my awareness of what I am pursuing, and my
even subconscious awareness of the value of what I am pursuing,
it would be hard for me not to be an addict of some sort, maybe
not to any hard degree or any degree that would find me ready for
a hospital.  But why not?  I mean, you need pacifiers of some
sort if you can’t connect with what it is that you’re looking
for, what it is that’s missing in your life, and that’s certainly
understandable.  Did that clarify that for you?

Student:  Yes.

Do:       Ok, anything more on that one?

Student:  No, I think that covered it.

Do:       Ok, let’s go to the next one.

Student:  Ok, do we want to talk about the symptoms of those who
are more ready for this, and possibly how, if they have more
symptoms, it is an indication that they had done a lot of
overcoming at a previous time?

Do:       Yes, and that just picks up right where we left off on
the last one, because we were talking about symptoms and degrees of
symptoms of readiness or ripeness for picking – I’m talking about
for the Next Level to pick a soul, so that when it picks that
soul, then it is ready to make that transition.  Well, in 1975,
or around that time, when the information first came out, some of
these who are in this classroom (and by the way, sitting in this
studio with us at this moment), some of them had their backpack –
that’s all they had.  They’d already left everything, they didn’t
know why, but they had a backpack and they didn’t feel like they
were just a hippie who was out on a trek of worthlessness.  They
just didn’t know why they found themselves physically within a
few miles of the area where Ti and I first surfaced with the
information that was given to us to give.  So those who found
themselves with that degree of readiness with no question in
their mind – they had not gotten into family, they did not have
children, they did not have properties they had to get rid of,
they didn’t have this, they didn’t have that.  I’m not
criticizing those who maybe had those things and rose to the
occasion, when they recognized this information, that they had to
also pursue it, but we’re discussing the degree of readiness.

Now, again I’ll have to be honest with you here.  I feel
that some indications of the degree of that readiness might be
because those same souls received so many overcoming lessons in
the previous time that a Representative was here.  We have to
just face that, talk about it openly, even though that does a
little tilt to some of our computers.  When the Next Level sent
Jesus as a Representative, don’t forget his only purpose in being
here was to what?  Spread the news of the Kingdom of Heaven.
“The Kingdom of Heaven is in our midst.”  In other words, ‘the
door is open – you listen to me, you do what I say, you can get
in.  If you don’t do it to the degree that you can get in and
stay there, then you’ll have to be born again.’ Now that doesn’t
mean necessarily that everyone in this classroom was there or had
to be born again.  But I can’t help but believe my Older Member,
as my Older Member explains to me that those souls were present
at that time with Him – knew Him – did as He taught to the best
of their ability, accomplished a great deal of their overcoming,
and therefore, when they came in at this time, they knew not to
get into this, not to get into that, and their baggage was light,
their yoke was easy, their burden was light.  They were more
prepared to move right on and get with their overcoming.

Here again, I’ve got to say this is not to put someone down
who finds that their yoke is not light and their burden is not
easy (or vice versa, whichever way it’s supposed to be), because
anyone who finds this and connects with this and knows that this
is the Truth, if they really know that it is the Truth, and the
more they know it is the Truth, the closer they probably were, if
not actually, were with Him 2000 years ago.  The more they knew
Him, the more they knew His Father through His mouth.  Because
Jesus did not want them to know Him.  He wanted them to know His
Father.  He wanted to be a vessel of His Father’s mind, and so
forth up the line to God Almighty, or the Chief of Chiefs, the
Creator of Creators.

So, back to the question at the point where the symptoms of
readiness can frequently be seen by the ease with which we can
drop things, or how much we are already in a position to jump
right into the classroom and get on with the overcoming.  Even
those who came in with a backpack and had already prepared
themselves by not getting into those things, that didn’t mean
they had an easy row to plow.  There is, as far as I know of, or
as far as Ti and I know of, there is no row to plow that is an
easy row in overcoming.  There is no one who has so much
overcoming done that they can sail through this.  They are still
actually and currently dealing with the forces that would
prohibit them from accomplishing this overcoming, and that’s a
daily thing – it’s a moment-by-moment thing – which I deal with,
which they deal with.  When you are in this environment and those
minds in opposition to our Fathers’ Kingdom surround us, then we
deal with those influences on a regular basis.  We have to win
round by round in that fight and in that struggle until we know
we can keep them at bay.  So readiness does not necessarily mean
ease is ahead.  It’s almost as if sometimes the more ready you
are, the harder the influences pounce on you.  It’s like the
influences see that you’re about to get to the point where you’re
secure, and therefore they have to add extra influences to
prohibit you from accomplishing the closeness that you want with
the Next Level as it relates, connects, with your Older Member or
your Teacher.  Did that cover our question there?

Student:  Yes, it did.

Do:       Ok, are we ready to go to the next one?  What’s the next one
on our list?

Student:  Is timing a factor in readiness for overcoming?

Do:       Ok, timing.  Timing is a factor from a couple of important
points.  Let’s go back 2000 years.  Jesus knew when He delivered
His message to His disciples that they had to respond then.  He
was there, He was a Representative, don’t forget, of the Next
Level.  He was a Representative of His Father’s Kingdom.  He took
on a human vehicle and became a “begotten” son (instead of a
“made” son, because of having a Next Level vehicle).  He was in a
human form and was a Representative sent to bring them
information of how to get from human level to Level Above Human,
so timing was important.  He was present.  Therefore, if you want
to make that transition, you have to do it during the time a lab
instructor is there to take you through it.  Therefore, as He
taught them and said to them, “Do this, do this, you follow me,
you believe in me, you do exactly as I say, and you’ll get there.
You will not know death.”  Wow, but I can’t get there and not
know death unless I continue to believe and continue to do.

So, timing is very important from the aspect of responding
when a Representative has been sent with the offering of
transition from human kingdom into the Level Above Human.  Timing
is also important from other aspects. The time that it takes me
to break the ties that bind, to get out of my humanness and get
on with my program.  That timing is very important.  Another aspect
of timing that’s important is, I can’t just say, “Well, it seems
that the Next Level sends Representatives periodically, and it
looks as if I don’t get X amount of overcoming done this time,
then there will be a time down the line.”  I’m afraid we have no
assurance of that.  We have no data on that.  We have no
knowledge of that.  I mean, if you want to gamble to that degree,
that’s like saying, “If I’m going to win a million dollars at the
Vegas table, then I’ll win it next month, not while the Vegas
table is advertising that a million dollars can be won.”  Because
when the information is there, it’s being offered, it’s being
advertised to an extent.  That’s what these tapes are doing.
They’re letting you know the information is available.  The door
is open.  So, I have to respond while the door is open if I
expect to move through the door, even get a toe in the door – or
even start in that direction – or maybe even get through the door
and get it slammed, if I get enough overcoming done.  I certainly
can’t take the frame of mind that this is something that I can do
at a later time, or that I can count on a Rep being here at another
time.  So, timing is important when a Representative is present.
The timing is important on “When I recognize this Truth, I need
to get rid of the shackles that bind me, get rid of those things
that are inhibiting me from getting into the classroom and
getting on with this program if it is for me.”  And that’s not
for us to say, that’s for you to say.  But if that is what you
are saying, then we must remind you that timing is significant
and that you need to act quickly.  Did that cover that topic?

Student:  Well, when there’s no member of the Next Level present
on the garden, is it more appropriate for them to be
humanitarians?

Do:       That’s an interesting question.  I would say that when there
is no Representative present that it is a justifiable position
for being the best human you know how to be.  Now, if a soul is
present during the time that a Representative is not present, a
soul who knew a Representative at a previous time, that soul
still might make increased efforts at overcoming and thereby
relate less and less to human responsibility and more and more in
an attempt to become a servant.  And the humans would say,
“What’s that person doing?  He’s copping out, he’s becoming a
hermit, he’s dropping his responsibility to society.”  So, if
that soul knew that much knowledge and it is present at that
time, he might take that route.  It is not our place to judge him
or condemn him, because we do not know what position he might
find himself in or what his previous experience was.  But if he
was not that close, then probably the best thing that he can do
is become charitable-minded, humanitarian, do the best that he
can to make a significant contribution to society, whether it’s
in medicine, or science, or whatever it might be to try to better
things, to clean up the environment, things that would take
better care of the garden and try to stimulate people more toward
better conduct than certainly negative or destructive conduct
that makes the world a more difficult place for other people.
Did that answer that question?

Student:  Yes.

Do:       Where are we on our next question?

Student:  We certainly touched on this, but is the message that
we have the same message that Jesus brought?

Do:       Well, we have to directly address that question.  Yes,
I think we probably said that before, but we need to say it again.
It’s the same message exactly.  Don’t forget, what we asked just
a moment ago was “What was Jesus’ purpose while He was here?”  He
sent His disciples out and He told them, ‘The Kingdom of God is
at hand, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand.  It is at hand through
me.  You do this through me, you believe in me, you do as I say,
you can get there.’  Now, this wasn’t because Jesus was saying,
‘I’m a big boy, I’m a big shot, I’m Mr. God!’  He was saying, ‘I
have been commissioned to act as midwife to you.  I’m no big shot
in the eyes of my Heavenly Father.  I’m no big shot in the
Heavenly Kingdom.  It is my task to be here, to minister to you.
And if I can minister to you, then you can make it there.’  But
He still had to be the object of their focus.  He was the vessel
for the information on how to make the transition from the human
kingdom into the Level Above Human.  Therefore, we have to listen
to the vessel when the vessel is present.  We can’t ignore the
vessel, just take the information and run and say, “I can do it
on my own.”  It doesn’t work.

There’s another thing that enters here.  That information,
as it comes, changes daily.  This vessel is not giving you
information that it got from its Older Member when its Older
Member was in a human vehicle.  This vessel is giving you
information that it receives day by day, hour by hour, minute by
minute, second by second, from its Older Member.  That
information is not like some super-duper, holy-holy,
sanctimonious information.  It is practical application of how I
overcome my binds, my shackles, my addictions, my improper
behavior, my improper conduct that was ok in the human kingdom
because it was transition from animal kingdom, but which is not
ok if I expect to ever get in my Father’s House without running
him out the back door.  It’s simply a practical lab-instructor-
type relationship with the students in trying to help their souls
clean up their act, get rid of their humanism, adopt the ways.
Actually, they’re not just getting rid of humanism, they’re not
just breaking the binds to the human kingdom, they are adopting
ways of the Next Level.  They are taking on ties with the Next
Level.  They are taking on habits of the Next Level.  They have a
different structure, they have a different format than human ties
would or human habits.  They are trying to graft to the Next
Level.  They’re trying to graft so that when they get into that
Kingdom, they fit.  It can work.  Even though they’re tiny little
children in that Kingdom Level, it’s ok.  They might wet their
diaper, they might make little boo-boos, but it’s permissible,
they can handle it, it’s tolerable.  It’s not going to be so
difficult that those whom they work with can’t handle it.  It’s
like getting into a team, it’s like getting into a crew, whether
it’s a crew aboard a spacecraft, or a crew on a project to
prepare a garden for its next civilization.  But how can the crew
function if members of that crew still have to, “Well I’ve got to
have so and so to consume because I don’t like what’s offered
here,” or “I’ve got to have some time by myself, I’ve got to go
sit and meditate a little bit”?  If it requires all that
attention, then that individual can’t really be a crew member,
can’t be a spoke in the wheel, can’t be just an active tool of
the captain of that task or the instructor for that task.  Where
were we?

Student:  I think we covered that.  Our message is the same as
the message Jesus brought.

Do:       Ok, what’s next on our list?

Student:  Do you want to discuss the name of Jesus, Yeshua?

Do:       Ok, this is an interesting little thing to talk about.  The
name of Jesus.  Don’t forget that when Jesus was present He said,
“Do this in my name.”  Now, that had a couple of different
meanings.  One was:  “You can blame me for it.  Whatever it is
they’re going to do –  whatever problem they’re going to give
you, go ahead and blame me for it.”  In other words, He knew that
His task was going to end with the masses requiring His life and
stringing Him up in one way or another.  And He said, “You know,
that’s part of the M.O. of my task, so I’ll take the blame.  You
know you can say, ‘He told me to do it.’  So do it in my name.”
Another thing is, if you look to Him and if you’re calling His
name all the time in your head, and in your thoughts asking for
help, then He can respond, His Father can respond.  His Father
wanted you to call the name of His son.  His Father put His son
in the position so you could call His name and that you could get
closer and closer.  The more Jesus meant to those who were His
disciples and His followers, the closer they got, also the more
lessons they got, the more correction they got, the more help
they got.  But it was a point of contact, it was a point of
communication, it was a point of focus to call His name.

The name also, according to some of the linguists and some
of the historians, had some double meaning.  Some used the term
“Yeshua,” meaning present savior.  Well, Jesus, as a
Representative of the Kingdom of Heaven or the Next Level,
present with information of how to get from the human kingdom
into the Kingdom Above Human, was He not present?  And was He not
their savior?  Therefore, their “present savior”?  And therefore,
that name had significance for Him, Yeshua or present savior.

Unfortunately, that puts this vehicle on the spot right now,
too.  I happen to be, or this vessel happens to contain, and this
soul happens to contain and be the conduit for that information
that can get you from the human kingdom into the Kingdom Above
Human.  And I’m afraid that Jesus is not my name.  Jesus was the
name of that vehicle 2000 years ago, and we need to understand it
that way.  Let me help you understand something a little more.
Jesus said, ‘Don’t forget that if someone says to you in the Age
to come (He meant the end of the Age) that He is here or He is
there, or you can find Him on this mountain (or wherever it was),
don’t believe it.’  Jesus knew that He would not come appearing
as Jesus or in the same body that He was in then.  Don’t
misunderstand me and say that that’s what I’m saying I am.  And
you’ll understand that in a moment.  He said, ‘Don’t believe it.’
For someone to say that that’s who they are doesn’t make sense;
it isn’t right for a couple of reasons.  One is that Jesus, or
the soul that was in the vehicle that was named Jesus, that soul
certainly had grown to the point of not wanting identity any
longer.  He wanted to draw attention to His Kingdom, to His
Father, even though His Father had said, “The part of the formula
that I give you is that they must look to you, they must call
your name.”  But here, understand something else.  What was the
name of that soul?  Was it the name of that soul…was that
Jesus?  No, that soul had a name before it entered the vehicle
that was named Jesus.  You don’t know that name.  I don’t know
that name.  I’m not supposed to know that name.  I think I
certainly knew it before I came into this lifetime, just as my
Older Member certainly knew it, but it is not to be brought in.
It is secret.  Don’t forget, when Jesus left them and was telling
them how to pray after His departure, it was to the group, to the
ones who were close to Him.  It was Our Father (OUR Father), who
art in Heaven (“which” was “who,” art in the Next Level now
having left this place), Hallowed be thy Name (kept holy, thy
Name kept holy).  Humans are not to know the names of individuals
in the Next Level or in the Kingdom of Heaven, or Kingdom of God.
You know these Biblical scholars who dig and dig and dig, and
they finally get smart and they come up with “Ya-hah-way” or
“Yahweh” or this or that, all these different names, “Jehovah”
the this and “Jehovah” the that.  They’re forgetting the first
rules regarding the names of those individuals from the Next
Level who related to the humans (which they did in the early days
of migration from Egypt and into Israel).  All that time they
were physically there in Next Level vehicles, they had titles,
and those titles then became names, and their names were not to
be known or pronounceable.  If humans lucked out somehow or other
by their Biblical scholarship, so to speak, and came across and
discovered what the name might have been of that member of the
Next Level that was present at that time, then I’m sure that the
Next Level would change the name of that soul, because humans are
not to call the names.  They can call the titles, they can call
the stations, they can make reference in their prayers to those
whom they have known while they were present on Earth.  Certainly,
it is appropriate for humans to do the best that they can as they
seek to relate to that Kingdom.  ‘The best that they can’ is to
pray to God, to pray to Jesus – what else can they do?  That’s
the best that they can do, and it serves the purpose.  You know
it’s not really what name you use at the front of your prayer
that counts.  It’s what your prayer is that counts.  If you are
saying “God” or if you’re saying “Jesus,” or whatever it is that
you’re saying, if you’re saying, “I want what You want for me.  I
want to join You.  I want to overcome this world.  I want to
become as You.  I want to become as Your son.  I want to leave
everything that separates me from You.”  They could simply say
one thing, “Lead me closer to You and help me to rise to the
occasion.”  Because in the process of asking that, you can be
lead closer to Him.  Things will be put in your path that will
begin to challenge that statement that you just made.  Because if
you ask, “Lead me closer to You,” and then the one who responds
begins to give you an opportunity to drop some shackle or some
tie or some bind to the human kingdom, how are you going to
respond?  Would you say, “Oh, God, how could this have happened
to me?  God, please restore this.”  And He says, “Oh, I thought
you wanted to get closer to Me.”  And you say, “Oh, God, please
restore.”  So, He says, “Ok, I’ll send somebody who can restore.
I’m not in the business of restoring humanism, but I’ll send
somebody who will if that’s what you really want.”  So, when we
say, “I want to get closer to You,” we’ve got to take what comes
in response to that.

Where were we?

Student:  Would you say that our disciplines are the same
disciplines that Jesus taught?

Do:       I hope so.  Yes, I believe that I can say it with
confidence, because I know my Father.  I know how my Father’s
example works.  I know that when my Father tells me that I can
overcome something and tells me how to overcome it and then
continues to bring me a new clue, a new band-aid, a new remedy,
try something else, try something else – I know that if I
continue to do what is given to me that it works.  Therefore, our
discipleship is the same.  When Jesus said to his disciples, or
to those who would be his disciples, “Unless you hate your
father, your mother, your sister, your brother…”  Read that to
us, ok?  Read us that scripture.

Student:  “If any man comes to me and hate not his father, and
mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”

Do:       Ok, the popular thing to do in the Christian world is to
say, “Oh, He didn’t really mean that.  What He really meant was
if you love those things more than me….”  And I’d say that that
is an appropriate application when a Representative is not
present.  But when the transition information and discipline are
available, which it was in Jesus’ time, He had the right to say
to them, “Come and follow me.  Leave those things and come and
follow me.  Give up everything that you have of this world, get
rid of it, give it to the poor, come and follow me.  Leave
everything, and as you leave them, they will become your enemies.
Even your family will become your enemies.”  He knew it
hurt…there is no way around it.  It happens.  It’s the natural
way of transition from kingdom level to kingdom level.  The door
is the same, the knob twists the same way.  It’s got the same
hazards, it’s just as difficult today as it was then.  It’s just
as easy today as it was then.  It’s the same door, it’s the same
transition.  It is changing our behavior, it is dropping
everything that binds us to the human kingdom – dropping
everything of possessions.

You know, within this classroom, we don’t have possessions.
This classroom is, don’t forget, a transition.  This is a
chrysalis.  This is where we go through the change from the human
into that Level, so any time that we have a possession it’s
because we ask a class member who really doesn’t want any
possessions if we can use his name.  We say, “The law says that
somebody’s name has to go on the title of this or on the title of
that,” whether it would be an automobile or what it might be.
Someone who does not want to have any possessions…it seems that
we get instruction that it’s ok to put their name on that
possession.  Since the day that my Father touched my life and my
awakening began, I’ve had no possessions.  My Older Member had no
possessions.  Not one thing in our names, nothing that could be
considered ours.  We don’t want anything of ours.  That’s the
last thing we want – anything of ours.  They aren’t handing out
any titles to possessions in the Kingdom of Heaven right now that
we’re aware of.  Certainly not in our transition classroom.
There are no titles there, there is no ownership.  Actually,
there shouldn’t be any here in the human kingdom.  This kingdom
and every element on it, everything that goes into making an
automobile or a house or a company or anything else, belongs to
the Chief of Chiefs and His Kingdom, the God of Gods.  It does
not belong to humans.  Humans play a little game of copy-cat by
saying, “I want to own this, I want to stake this off, it’s
mine.”  It isn’t his, he’s just playing a game.  Now if he has
the attitude that it isn’t “mine,” he’s at least a little closer.
If he has the attitude of saying, “This is just entrusted to me
as the keeper of it, and I’ll do the best I can.”  And if the day
comes when a Representative is there with the transition
available, the day is come if you’re someone who might be capable
of connecting with this and know your Father.

If you know Jesus, you know this is Truth.  You may have an
idea that you know Jesus, but the “Jesus” that you have filled
your head with, and all the little sayings that you quote, all
the little scriptures that you quote are the safe ones.  And you
usually quote Paul, who didn’t even know Him, never even sat with
Him, never talked to Him.  You know if you’d stick to the red
letters [in a red-letter Bible], you’d be better off.  But even
among the red letters, if you’d go to the ones that are
pertinent, like the all-important ones, the bottom-line ones.
Now this is not to say to you that this is what you must do.
This is only what those must do that are ready for this, that
know it is for them.  But if you would go, know that it’s always
the same, the transition is always the same.  If I expect to want
to get into my Father’s House, into that Kingdom Level, out of
the human kingdom, I can’t do it after I die by trying to get
good in the last six months before I kick the bucket.  I can’t
overcome anything then.  My vehicle has grown so old and so tired
and so sick, the influences aren’t even around to be interested
in me to even have the things I need to get rid of.  So it’s
difficult.  Let’s go on, what’s the next question on our list?

Student:  How is the behavior within our classroom or shelter
attempting to be like the behavior in God’s House.

Do:       Well, I think we’ve talked about that, but we’ll touch on it
a moment more.  Don’t forget, I’m a lab instructor, so to speak.
Therefore, our classroom, or our chrysalis, is a lab.  And in
that lab we try to simulate what it would be in our Father’s
House.  Now, I don’t really believe there is any Gothic
architecture in our Father’s House.  I don’t believe there are
bells and robes and rituals and incense and all those things.
It’s practical.  It’s a laboratory, it’s experiments, it is
behavior that is pleasing in His sight.  It is being servants of
His in whatever task He has that we might be able to perform,
depending on our degree of readiness or overcoming, or not
interfering with what He has in mind.  So we do try in our
classroom to have a simulation or an analogy, a mockup of His
House, His Kingdom.  We try to live that, as we are here.  And
the closer we get, the environment becomes something for those
who are in the classroom that when they have to go on different
tasks outside the classroom, when they get back in, it’s like,
“Wow, I can breathe again!”  Because within the confines of
wherever our segment of classroom is, within the confines of the
environment that is our simulated laboratory of His House, where
the behavior has become what it has, it is our haven, it is our
Heaven, our simulated Heaven.  In that sense, we are beginning to
experience some of the feeling that is present in the Next Level.
And believe me, it is not righteous – you know, spiritual,
syrupy, saccharine.  It’s practical, it’s hard work, it’s
correction.  It’s learning day by day more things that I need to
correct that I haven’t yet faced, and how I can apply more
application toward overcoming those things than I applied before
new clues were given to me, so that I can stamp them out even
more.  And that’s the formula for an overcoming classroom.
That’s the formula; therefore, we feel instruction is given to us
on how to create, within our possibility, a simulation of our
Father’s House or laboratory, however you want to look at it.

The tech crew just said that it’s a couple of minutes before
the end of the hour and I’m going to ignore it and we’re just
going to go on until this session is complete within reason,
depending upon how far we go with this session.  Let’s go to our
next question.

Student:  Do we want to discuss how some might think because
you’re our teacher that you’re on a spiritual ego trip or think
you’re God?

Do:       Yes, I think we’ve discussed that a little bit, but we can
certainly touch on it a little bit more.  I don’t know what you
think that Jesus had to gain, from a human point of view, by
saying that He was sent from the Kingdom of Heaven and was the
Son of His Father and had information that flowed through Him on
how to get from here to there.  If you thought that of Him, if
you were present then and thought that of Him, you didn’t know
Him.  You didn’t know what He was all about.  I mean, what did He
have to gain?  He had to gain total ridicule.  He had to gain the
masses hating Him.  He had to gain a cross.  He had to gain nails.
He had to gain a tomb.  He had to gain every humiliation that could
be expected.  He even warned His students and His disciples that
that was ahead for them.  They had to “take up their cross and
come follow Him.”  They had to know that that same humiliation
would follow them.  He knew that the possibility of the masses
ever recognizing this would deplete the human kingdom.  And the
human kingdom, don’t forget, is a stepping stone from animal
kingdom to Our Father’s Kingdom, even though it’s a little hard
to understand.  But it’s tough.  It puts yourself in the position
where, if you happen to be the Rep, the critics then say, “Oh,
but you’re just saying that you are God.”  Well, in a sense,
you’re saying that.  We’re saying that we’re from the Kingdom of
God and it has many members.  Yes, we’re from the Kingdom of God.
Yes, we’re from the Next Level.  It has many members.  But the
truth also, as we mentioned a moment ago, is that from where I
sit, I’m a young’un because I don’t relate to any who
evolutionarily came from a later time than this soul.  My
relationship, as far as my concern for my growth and what is
ahead for me – my relationship with the Kingdom of God, my
relationship with the Next Level – goes from where I am, up.
Therefore, I’m low man on the totem pole.  Even though my task is
to relate to those souls that are coming through.  But that task
of relating to them is not such a unique task that it took a high
falootin’ officer in the Next Level in order to perform it.  Who
knows, there could be many members of that Kingdom Level in my
Father’s House who might be able to perform this.  But the task
was given not only to this soul but the vehicle that is
surrounding this soul.

Listen, as we described to you before, I and this class had
the unique, unbelievable privilege of even having my Father
accompany me in the early stages of this classroom – awaken me
and help me through the rough spots because of what the world had
become at this time.  Now, maybe it’s because I needed that help.
Maybe Jesus didn’t need that help 2000 years ago.  Maybe the
world wasn’t that complicated at that time.  I don’t know the
reasons.  I don’t care.  It doesn’t matter.  I suspect that Jesus
had even a physical relationship with His Father during the time
that He was there that didn’t reach the history books, that
didn’t reach the scriptures.  But I was still so lucky and so
privileged to have my Father come and awaken me, set this thing
up, get it going.  You know, I don’t know that you can relate to
this at all, you probably can’t.  It just means so much to me.
But I can remember in the first few weeks that I met Ti, that Ti
said, “Why do I feel that this is something that I’m to give to
you, and then I’m to go back”?  And I didn’t know what she was
talking about.  But I know now, and I’m even thankful that it was
designed that way.  Because I am the beneficiary, even of that
difficulty.  We’re all beneficiaries of difficulties.  If our
desire is to get closer, what’s the formula?  A difficulty comes
our way – a hurdle – a means of getting rid of misinformation or
getting rid of things that are still human ways of thinking, and
we can overcome that and move forward.  I forgot where we were;
where were we?

Student:  Well, I don’t know.  Do you feel like we covered the
fallacy of thinking that Jesus is God or He is the begotten Son
in what you just said?

Do:       Well, you know for those preachers, evangelists, and
religious leaders who say that Jesus is God, it’s ridiculous.  I
hate to say that, but it’s ridiculous.  A member of the Kingdom
of God?  Absolutely!  That soul was a member of the Kingdom of
God.  But to use the term “God” in references as another term for
the Top Man, the Creator of Creators, the very One who is the
King at the top of that Kingdom Level is not accurate.  Now,
whether or not the Evolutionary Level Above Human has any
evolutionary levels above it, or if only the Evolutionary Level
Above Human is pyramided, or peaks, in a sense, in the Creator,
the Chief of Chiefs, the God of Gods, God Almighty, doesn’t
really matter, but to say that Jesus was God shows ignorance.
Jesus was the Son of His Father.  He fulfilled that task.  In the
sense that it was His Father’s mind flowing through Him, and if
we want to refer to His Father as God, then it was God expressing
Himself through Him, as it came down through the pipelines
through Jesus’ Father, Jesus’ Father’s Father, and so forth from
the One who initiated that information or passed it down.
Because that is the structure of the family tree in the Next
Level, or the Kingdom of God.  What was the other part of that
one?

Student:  That Jesus was the only begotten Son.

Do:       The only begotten Son.  That’s interesting because “begotten
Son” meant that that particular Father probably had other
students or Sons and that Jesus was present in a human vehicle, a
vehicle that came from woman’s womb, therefore a begotten
vehicle, and therefore a begotten Son, begotten not made.  “Made”
meaning created or developed within the Kingdom of Heaven,
instead of from the womb of woman.  So, in that sense, the only
begotten Son.  That’s right, the only Son who was present in a
begotten flesh.  It’s not going to get you into the Kingdom of
Heaven to know that information, it’s just a little tidbit that’s
kind of interesting.  Ok, what’s next?

Student:  Did you want to mention the response that we’ve had
since we started a few weeks ago?

Do:       Yes, you know this has been surprising to us.  We’re always
surprised.  We think that when we get new information that it’s
going to mean this, it’s going to imply that, and these things
are going to follow.  And it’s always different from what we
expect.  What is particularly interesting is that as the
information came out and tapes were made and a satellite series
was begun and posters went out about that information, we thought
that the response that we would get would be from people who the
information was new to.  But the overwhelming immediate response
that we got was from ones who had dropped out of the classroom
previously.  And immediately when the information reached them by
whatever source, they were drawn to it.  When it reached them,
they said, “I’ve got to get back into that classroom.  I’ve got
to finish my overcoming if I am permitted to get back into that
classroom.  I know I have wasted time.  I know I have lost
ground.”  We’re amazed because our population has increased
almost 50 percent by returnees from those who had dropped out of
the classroom previously.  It’s interesting because from the
point of view of those organizations that would give help to
deprogram cult members, you would have thought that those who
dropped out of our classroom would have come to want something
else.  These who have been out there, they’ve been out extended
periods of time – years!  You would have thought that they
wouldn’t want any part of this any longer.  This isn’t to say
that some who dropped out do not want any part of this any
longer.  And we can understand that point of view, in defense of
where their heart is, what they desire.  But I’m afraid that it
also says something for us that we should recognize.  This is not
to praise us.  This is to recognize the reality that has been
given us to give to you, to find that those members of our class
who dropped out, they couldn’t deny this Truth.  And you know a
funny thing about it is that many of them thought they could
complete their overcoming outside the classroom, and yet as they
turned and looked in the mirror and saw what they were doing,
they recognized that they weren’t getting anywhere with that
overcoming.  Instead, they were sliding back and sliding back,
and they realized that the fact is still true that it takes a
“midwife” who has gone through it before, who has made that
transition from the human stepping stone into the Level Above
Human before, in order to take you through it.  Because, don’t
forget, the instructions come daily.  Everything changes in
practical application to your own overcoming.  So the response we
had was mainly those who were returnees, and we welcomed them.
They were embarrassed, they were ashamed for their lost time, and
we’re just thrilled that they want to complete what they started.
And they know that it was true then, they never really lost sight
of it.  And they’re excited that it is offered to them again, or
that they can complete what they started.

As I said, most of our response has been those, and our
population has increased almost 50 percent in a very short time,
in a matter of a few weeks.  We have received some who are
working toward getting in the classroom; in other words, quickly
making their preparations to join in a segment of the classroom
wherever that segment is.  And they are also a surprise to us
because, instead of being someone who is hearing this information
for the first time in a disconnected way, they are all ones who
have heard the connection either because another family member
was in the classroom, or because they had some association or
relationship with someone who was in the classroom or who was a
dropout of the classroom.  And they received enough of whatever
it was – beginning little smelling salts or something – that now
that the door opened, they said, “I’ve got to attempt that, if
that classroom will accept me; I want to attempt that.”  So,
without exception, those who are coming into our classroom at
this time are those who are returnees, and a few – several – who
have either family members, or who have had relationships of one
sort or another with those who are in the classroom, or who were
out of the classroom for a period of time.  Did that cover that
topic?

Student:  Yes.

Do:       Where are we now, what’s next?

Student:  Do you want to mention more about how many, and where
the returnees and new class members are coming from and the
variety of their ages and backgrounds?

Do:       Well, we’ll say just a word on that, thank you.  It’s
interesting to note the diversity of those who were out and are
choosing to come back.  We have one person who had been out of
the classroom for some time and has to get back in, and while
out, married this individual and they’re both in their seventies.
And that person has to get back in the classroom and the person
the individual married has to get in the classroom.  A funny
thing is that their marriage had already become one that was, not
because of their age, not a physical relationship in the way that
you would normally think, or that humans think of a marriage
circumstance.  But that’s interesting to realize that here comes
a husband/wife, they’re in their seventies, and we’ve got another
husband and wife in Northern California, we’ve got them coming
from Missouri, Texas…where am I missing?

Student:  Venezuela?

Do:       Venezuela!  And here is a soul that has been looking for
this classroom that got separated from this classroom in the mid-
70’s and has faithfully been looking for this classroom since
then.  We have met with him,  helped him understand more clearly
all over again what it was going to require of him and what he
was getting into, since it was so tough.  And he says, “I have no
choice.”  So, he’s quickly wrapping up everything in Venezuela
and he’s on his way.  Did I miss any others that you’re aware of?

Student:  Colorado?

Do:       Colorado.  So we got Missouri, Colorado, California, Texas,
Venezuela.  At present that’s where people are coming in from,
and it’s interesting that more than one are coming from those
different places.  The only one that one is coming from is
Venezuela.  It’s more than one from those other places mentioned.
Let’s go on to the next question.  Where are we?

Student:  Do we want to discuss the problem with delivering our
information to the public?

Do:       Ok, the problem is that we’re aware of the hazards.  In
other words, here we are offering this information.  Anybody can
turn on their satellite TV and see this, anybody can see a
poster, and we’re aware that the masses can see it who aren’t
ready for this and therefore, in principle or theory, we’re
opening the information to the public at large.  It also means
that, more than likely, significantly greater numbers will not be
wanting to do this than those who would want to do this.  Also,
those who do not want to do this and who do not even recognize us
as an opportunity to do this will find fault with us and will
create the same kind of circumstance that happened 2000 years
ago.  Now, we’re not saying that there’s going to be a
crucifixion.  We don’t know how it’s going to end.  We don’t know
as much as Jesus knew toward the end of His mission.  We do know
that hostility builds, particularly when the doors are open.  You
know, as long as we had a period of time where the classroom was
somewhat in isolation and protected and they were working on
their own overcoming, before we got information to, or
instruction, to bring the information public again, the forces
against us didn’t work that significantly against us.  We were
protected.  But now that we are just putting this information
right out where all of those who are brainwashed with the
misinformation from the negative forces have a chance to hear it,
too, this is going to be an opportunity for them to get their
bows and arrows out and really be after us to whatever degree
that they choose.  That’s their option.  Ok, so that’s our
problem with dealing with the public.  What’s next?

Student:  Why is it that most puritanical lifestyles are so
vehemently criticized by the religious and the seemingly
righteous?

Do:       Is it because they might know that it’s the truth
subconsciously?  I don’t know – it’s a good question.  It’s
interesting, too, that in some countries it’s such an honor for
individuals to join a religious order, to leave everything, break
all their ties, even their relationship entirely with their
family and devote themselves to their religion.  It becomes
acceptable.  But the closeness of the Next Level has been in this
nation, primarily in this nation, since 1975.  Therefore, this
nation is also the most vehement against anything that even hints
at separating from the world.  Therefore, that’s the reason
there’s such enormous criticism against cults and things that
appear to be out of the ordinary.  Stop and think about it.
Don’t forget that when Jesus was doing what He was doing that He
and His disciples were a cult from the human point of view, or
from those who did not believe that what He said was true.
That’s always the position they take.  “It’s a cult, we gotta’
save them from it.”  And if you take the point of view of the
leader in the cult, the one who still says that he is the leader
– is the Pope still not in a position of being the leader of a
cult?  Is the president of the Mormon Church not still in the
position of being the leader of a cult in that sense?  But, you
know, a funny thing happens to “cults” and their leaders as long
as they’re buying property and doing human behavior and they’re a
generation or two old.  Then they become an acceptable member of
society.  It’s when they are breaking out of society, overcoming
the world to whatever degree, that they are immediately seen as
offensive.  Offensive to whom?  To those who cannot recognize
this as the truth – by their choice, by what they have become.
Whether they are taking that point of view because they are young
and might grow into that knowledge at some time, or because it’s
just simply a result of their options over a period of time,
that’s not for us to say.  We’re not the judge of that.  What’s
next on our list of questions?

Student:  How is the Next Level the greatest equal-rights
advocate?

Do:       That’s a good question.  You know, this is a good point
because the Creator of Creators created everyone with a little
computer, a choice mechanism, that was designed with two sides: a
potential for negativity, a potential for positive; a potential
for misinformation, a potential for the truth.  And a soul at an
objective point, at its point of creation, was 50-50.  It was
empty, but it had the potential for 50-50, in the range from
which it could take its choices.  Like even that soul that was in
the Garden of Eden, the Lord made it clear that He was his Lord,
He was his God, and He said, “You do what I say, and then you’ll
go the right way.”  But He also knew that the likelihood of Adam
going astray was very possible.  I know that it hurt His feelings
when He had to step out of that garden knowing that for the
period of time that He was away from Adam and Eve that the man of
misinformation (Lucifer) would step in and say, “Oh, you don’t
have to worry about what He said, you don’t have to worry about
disobeying Him.  Go ahead and eat this and do what I tell you.
It’s for your benefit.  He’s not anything to be afraid of.”  That
was their choice.  They were created with a complete, even, fair
option of accepting goodness.  Making the choice of listening to
Him, or listening to misinformation.  Now, our Father’s Kingdom
is never the aggressor.  He doesn’t say, “This is what you must
do.”  The other side over here, they tell you what you’ve got to
do.  They impose it upon you.  That’s the way it is in the human
kingdom.  Why is it designed that way?  Our Father designed it,
even designed that aspect of it, even made all that potential for
negativity there so that if you get to His Kingdom in the
process, you will have overcome all that negativity, you will be
strong, you will have proven your loyalty to, and adoption of,
His Household – grafting to His vine.

So, equal rights…one time within our classroom, and I think
we told you this in a previous series, we had a class member who
at one time said, “Please, under no circumstances let me ever
turn from this.  Save me if I ever try to turn from this.”  Ti
and I listened to that class member, and at one time that class
member said, “I don’t want to be here.”  And so we honored what
she had asked and we held her for a short period of time.  We
tried to restrict her from leaving the classroom.  We saw it
wasn’t working.  I mean, in a very short time we saw it wasn’t
working.  She wasn’t what we would consider coming back to her
senses, so we said, “Goodness, go!  We’ll help you go.  Here is a
plane ticket.  Go where you want to go, and we’ll help you get
started with whatever it is that you’ve got to do.”  You know the
irony of that?  We did that one time and one time only; we
learned our lesson from it.  That same individual is arriving in
a segment of our classroom next week, saying, “I’ve got to be
there, I’ve got to finish what I started.  I apologize for having
ever listened to the world, for being so stubborn as to not take
correction and to not change.”  No one has a right, it is not
Next Level way to hold someone from their choices.  It is the
Next Level way to let them go, become as evil as they want to be.
Now, a Next Level member might step in and warn them, and warn
them, and warn them, but they let them go right on and do what
they choose to do.  The Next Level is the Creator of equal
rights.  No one advocates equal rights to the extent that the
Next Level does.  And our classroom tries to emanate that, tries
to be the same way with it, hoping that if this is for you, we
can help you.  We hope we can be the vessels to deliver it to you
clearly enough that you can see what it is that has been given to
us, that we’re so eager to share with you.  If it is not for you,
we say, “Fine, go your way, do what you want to do.  We might
warn you of some of the pitfalls, but they’re your choices, go
and do it.”  What’s next on our list?

Student:  Do we want to discuss the problem of money in
relationship to the newcomers?

Do:       No, but we will.  This is an awkward topic.  I have to make
reference to when Jesus said, “Go and give everything you have to
the poor and come follow me.”  And I can remember Ti saying to me
and to the classroom in early stages that, “I don’t know if Jesus
ever said it, but we knew that He probably wished that they would
take a look at the classroom and say ‘Are they not poor?  If I
can help them some, should I not help them?'”  Because as those
leave their world behind and enter the classroom, at times we
have wished we could say, “In leaving behind whatever it is that
you had, you might keep in mind that we have certain needs.”
Then we sound like we’re begging for a handout or that our
Father’s Kingdom can’t take care of His own, and our Father’s
Kingdom can take care of His own.  So, we’re left in that awkward
position, and we cannot take the position of telling them or even
reminding them or bringing it to their attention, even though
frequently they think, after getting in the classroom, “I see
that you could have used one of these, or I had one of those, I
gave it away to somebody who didn’t,” and so on.  But it’s an
awkward thing, we can’t do it.  They are not in our classroom
until they are in our classroom.  When they are not in our
classroom and they are severing their ties in order to enter our
classroom, we can’t give them instruction.  They must do what
they must do in order to separate from the world.  We must have
you understand that, because that is our position, that is the
Next Level’s position, and we certainly are not dependent upon
this world or our asking it for help in order to survive.  We
will survive according to the Next Level as we serve them and
please them.  What’s next on our list of questions?

Student:  How do these items relate to overcoming: religion?

Do:       Well, why don’t you give me the definition of religion
as what the dictionary would say religion is?

Student:  “Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power
accepted as the Creator and Governor of the Universe.”

Do:       Well, because of what so-called religions are, at times
we feel like we don’t want to associate with that term because we
want to say the Truth that we have is real.  It’s not a religion
because religions have become fantasy and illusion, and they have
adjusted all their thinking so that they don’t have to do
anything about changing.  But in that interpretation, recognizing
a supernatural power, a governor of all that is, we are certainly
then a religion.  What about church, what does the definition say
on that?

Student:  “The company of all Christians regarded as a mystic
spiritual body.”

Do:       I’m afraid that we’re that, too.  But we’re not mystic
in that sense, or spiritual in that sense, because spiritual and
mystic in this day and time have become less than true, they’ve
become tainted.  But the church says the “body of believers,” and
we feel like that’s a closer translation of what the church
should be.  But the real church is not just a body of believers,
it’s the body of doers, or even more than that, it’s the body of
overcomers, because those who believe become overcomers.  What’s
next on that list?

Student:  You asked us to bring up how a television preacher,
Gene Scott, relates to overcoming.

Do:       Ok, we’re going to talk for a moment about Gene Scott and
Pastor Arnold Murray.  Gene Scott in Los Angeles has a satellite
ministry, a cable ministry, an actual church ministry.  Pastor
Murray has a satellite ministry from a little community in
Arkansas.  Both of these individuals did a major step in
overcoming by stepping out of the mainstream denominations, and
it was hard to do.  They got criticized a lot for it, which is
the way of overcoming.  Each step of overcoming is hard to do and
you get criticized for doing it.

Let’s take Gene Scott for a moment.  Nobody that I’m aware
of on the face of the globe has worked harder or come up with
better mathematical and historical and intellectual and logical
validation of the Kingdom of Heaven, Jesus the Son, the prophetic
events, their sequence of events in disclosing the pyramid and
what they tell symbolically, the prophesy that they reveal.  I
mean it took a lot of work to do that and validate all that
information and to make it understandable and academically
acceptable, and we praise him for that work.  But the issue of
issues when it comes to Jesus and His purpose here was that of
getting from the human kingdom to the Kingdom of Heaven.  And
validation of prophesy, validation that the literature of the
Bible is real and is true, sure that’s significant, but it
doesn’t get you any marks in overcoming.  I mean, overcoming is
overcoming.  It’s the hard tasks of changing your behavior, of
dropping the ways of the world in all of its aspects.  Every tie
that binds, every behavior that is not acceptable.  That is
overcoming.

Pastor Murray is also a very astute, very aware Biblical
scholar, and if you want to watch him, watch him; you could learn
a lot.  You could learn a lot from both of these.  They’re
excellent teachers of the Bible and its history.  Pastor Murray
understands that there was an Age before this Age, and there’s
going to be an Age after this Age.  Both Scott and Murray realize
that Jesus’ birthday is not being celebrated, that it happened at
a different time.  All that’s very interesting information, but
it doesn’t get you anywhere in the process of overcoming.  And
it’s only because I love Pastor Murray and I love Gene Scott, and
my Older Member said bring them up in that tape – we’re concerned
for them and for their followers because they’ve made major
strides in the right direction.  And it’s because we care for
them that we hope they will make more major strides and be
willing while it’s still available to move very quickly in that
direction.  What’s next on that?

Student:  What about the Florida “End Timers”?

Do:       Recently in the news there’s been a lot of negative
information going out about this little group in Northern Florida
that call themselves “End Timers,” and particularly towards their
leader because he feels that Jesus is going to come at any moment
and he wants to help them be ready.  So he’s trying to help them
change to the best of his ability.  He has them involved in
certain elements of trying to change their behavior, trying to be
less worldly, and for that we congratulate them, for that we
praise them.  And we hope that they will recognize that there is
more information that can help them move much more quickly, and
much more significantly, if they’re ready for it.  We hope that
we can be good instruments to bring it to them if this is what
they are looking for; if not, it’s for those who are looking for
it.  What’s next on our list?

Student:  The ones who are looking for the Second Coming, but yet
they are not doing any active overcoming, will they ever know
Him?

Do:       Those who are looking for the Second Coming, will they
ever know Him?  That’s a loaded question.  As far as the Second
Coming, meaning when is the Next Level going to bring an open
door again for the Kingdom of Heaven, the Second Coming is here.
We’ve discussed that.  And we’ve discussed how Jesus said, ‘Don’t
look for me.  If somebody tells you they’re me, don’t believe
them.’  And yet the information, the door, is here at this time.
Whether or not they will know Him or whether or not they will
know His Father or they will know that Kingdom is simply
dependent upon whether or not they make it through the transition
from the human kingdom into His Kingdom level, or into His House.
Whether or not it’s going to be offered at another time, we don’t
know.  All we know is this time.  We’re not given the instruction
of saying, “If you don’t catch this bus, there’s one down the
road.”  We don’t know that there is.  We feel that we must
approach it as if there isn’t, that it’s garden cleaning time,
and what’s going to be done with souls that did not make it from
there to here is none of our business.  We’re not going to try to
motivate you to do this out of that kind of fear and imposing
that tribulation upon you.  Your tribulation is going to be
imposed upon yourself if you choose this way because you will
recognize that this is true and recognize that the road is tough.
What’s next on our list?

Student:  Do we want to mention again the domesticated pet
analogy and how it compares to our readiness to graduate from the
human kingdom?

Do:       We have to, there is no better analogy.  Take the analogy of
the domesticated dog who really wants to serve his master and
doesn’t want to run with the pack, wants to stay with his master,
wants to please his master, wants to be loyal to his master, and
compare that to someone who is going through the transition of
entering our Father’s Kingdom.  They have to use as a focal point
of that desire the one who stands in the position to be the
object.  That unfortunately happens to be their lab instructor,
which happens to be this one sitting here, say “Do.”

You know, at this point I have to tell you that this morning
I saw on television a minister bringing up adultery.  This fellow
from Memphis, I don’t remember his name, was talking about
adultery.  When you are in line for getting into our Father’s
House, then if you sleep with anybody else to any degree, you are
committing adultery in respect of our Father’s House.  That’s the
reason that the analogy in Revelations and elsewhere for the
relationship to one’s Heavenly Father is of marriage, it’s a bond
that you’re making.  Now don’t misunderstand that.  This lab
instructor, this object of that, has no interest in your
plumbing, no interest in your sexuality.  I mean, for heaven’s
sakes, my Older Member certainly had no interest in me, would not
want that kind of humanness.  Children are not made in our
Father’s Kingdom in that way.  That vibration is definitely a
reproductive vibration of the human kingdom.  And I can honestly
say that any relationship of that nature certainly never happened
with me and my Older Member, certainly has never happened with
any of these class members and their Older Member.  And if you
can find a class member that can tell you it has happened to any
degree, to either one of these lab instructors, you’ve found the
liar you were looking for.  Because that is not a part of the
picture.  It has to be a pure relationship.  It has to be within
the confines of the behavior of our Father’s Kingdom.  So, from
our Father’s point of view, when you are as a bride in His
Kingdom, if your attention, if your affection to any degree goes
to someone else, it’s adultery.  It’s compromised.

Another show I saw this morning on satellite – it sure
sounds like I watch a lot of television! – it’s interesting how
my Older Member frequently uses these little preachers and their
lessons to give me little clues of things to pass on to you.
Here was an old gentleman that had had two wives.  I suppose that
one died and then he took another one.  And now he was old, I
think he was in his 80’s, late 70’s or 80’s, I don’t remember
which.  But now he was saying how he’s devoting his attentions
totally towards his Lord, that he doesn’t have to compromise it
anymore.  And yet it doesn’t dawn on others as they listen to him
that what about those who are not in their late 70’s or 80’s, are
they still compromising their relationship?  The commandment that
says, “Thou shalt love the Lord, thy God, with all thy heart,
with all thy mind, with all thy soul,” doesn’t leave room for an
affair.  It doesn’t leave room for promiscuity.  It doesn’t leave
room for any sexuality, any disloyalty, any affection, to any
degree to any source other than to the Next Level.  And that must
remain purely within the confines of appropriate behavior.  You
know, there’s all the difference in the world between certain
little behaviors that seem like such a subtle difference.  For
example, a kiss on the cheek, a kiss on the forehead in the right
spirit can mean a very nice thing from my Older Member to me,
because it’s done so rarely that when it’s done it’s so special.
But my Older Member wouldn’t dirty my Older Member’s mouth by
pressing that mouth against this mouth and participating in
anything that would lower my vibrations or hold this vehicle in a
way that would stimulate lower vibrations of this vehicle.  That
to the Next Level is absolutely animal, absolutely a kingdom
level beneath it.  And you might as well know it.  Whether you
can accept it or not, that’s your problem.  But in all fairness,
we must have you understand that.  You know, this little old man
that I was telling you about who had had a wife and then had
another wife, and now he was old and he could give his whole time
to his Savior, to Jesus.  It’s too late.  He can’t do any
significant overcoming.  He’s not connected with a midwife.  I
don’t mean to condemn him.  He may not be condemned.  He might be
salvaged for another time.  I’m not judging him.  I’m trying to
help you understand.  That same individual quoted some of the
very, very significant scriptures, the ones that we say are the
key bottom-liners.  For example, the one that says, “Unless
someone hate their mother, their father, the whole world, even
their own life, he cannot even be my disciple.”  And he said,
“But, Jesus didn’t mean it in that way.  He meant if they love
those things more than me.  They can love those things, but not
more than me.”  I’m afraid he’s mistaken.  That would be an
appropriate interpretation, when the Next Level has not come in
close and made a physical presence.

When the Next Level has made a physical presence, you’re on
the spot.  And that spot says, “If you know me, you don’t share,
you can’t share, I’m not going to share.  You can’t be my wife
and cheat on me.  You can’t compromise it.  I’m the only one.  I
am the focal point.  I am the object representing my Father’s
Kingdom.  You’re moving into a crew consciousness, into a force
of labor as a servant in our Father’s Kingdom that can’t be
distracted by lusts of the physical flesh or of the human flesh
or desires of the human flesh.”  That’s the whole reason for
overcoming – to have you understand that.  He also said that
you’ve got to ‘give up everything of the world, break all those
ties, give everything away to the poor, and come and follow me.’
This man on television said, “Jesus didn’t mean that; He meant,
‘Just don’t let it mean anything to you.'”  That’s not it.  Those
who are entering this classroom in this transition in order to
grow to be in our Father’s House, they have to literally and
physically leave everything behind and will not have anything
from the time they do that until they get out of here.  Whether
that departure be with vehicle or without vehicle doesn’t even
enter into the picture.  They are no longer possessors of
anything, not that they could be even if they tried to be.  But
they don’t even want to be.  They don’t even want to play those
games.  So, they leave everything behind.  Those relationships
that won’t let them do what they want to do, they have to sever
because they interfere, they get in their way.  This is the
requirement, was the requirement, and always will be the
requirement.

Now, the last little thing that you must understand.  If
this world exists beyond our departure, then there is no longer
that closeness, there is no longer a Representative.  Now, I am a
physical Representative.  These of the classroom, they are
physical representatives.  Should I leave this classroom and
return to my Father’s House, they would still be your door for
whatever time one of them was still a faithful wife, faithful in
all behavior, faithful in all belief and practice, wanting
nothing of this world, establishing nothing of this world that
could be called a church or a belief system that would be
accepted by the masses.  As long as one of them remains, your
door is open.  If that one remaining remains faithful to the full
degree.

It is our hope that this has been the Next Level speaking
through my Older Member into my brain and that I have not diluted
it, because I want you to see it as it is.  Because I feel if you
could actually see it as it is, you couldn’t deny it, even though
I know that because of what you’re addicted to – you don’t want
to be, but – you’re intoxicated, you’re drunk, you’re influenced.
You’re not sober because of the ways of the world that hold you
in that intoxication, and you have to get away from the world
enough to begin to be free of that intoxication.  But I’m even
hoping that your intoxication isn’t so bad that you can’t see
this.  And certainly all who might see this enough to recognize
that it is what they’ve been waiting for, the Next Level might
deem deserving of entering their House.  The Next Level has to
touch their life.  The Next Level has to let something happen in
their head that says, “That’s it, that’s what I’m after.  I’ve
got to get there fast.  I’ve got to go with it.”  And then it is
our task to participate in that instruction, our task in the
daily, daily, menial tasks of overcoming, the reminders, the
licking of thoughts, the licking of behavior that is human, not
Next Level behavior.  Adopting the behavior, the habits, the ways
of the Next Level.  We wish you could see it as we see it.  We
wouldn’t trade it for anything.  But we’re not trying to sell it.
I guess we are, because it means so much to us.  I feel that this
is the end of this series Beyond Human, and I hope that we’ve
been instruments of the Next Level through my Father and through
our offering to you.

Section 4  –  Page 76

Critique of “thenextweb” 2015 article on Heaven’s Gate

Below the link is my critique of an article about Heaven’s Gate that included comments from the current Heavensgate.com webmasters I call M & S:

(Before I start…there is an ongoing theme I keep hearing from even would be believers in Ti and Do that says – there is no classroom anymore so nothing to join and thereby nothing to do as we will just have to wait to reincarnate when a REP is incarnate again. This is a HUGE programming against the Next Level that is a Luciferian Space Alien agenda to promote and instill in even those who are most in line to become new prospective Members of the Next Level. People are blinded in many ways and this is just one more that M (and I presume S) are promoting in most every interview I hear that they gave, (along with other things that are against what Ti and Do taught, like saying there is no Heaven and no Hell for instance). It is so abundantly clear to me that all of us must “stand in defense of and for Ti and Do and maintain that stand until our exit of our vehicle” as the overall minimum requirement to be included in the group of Souls who are taken off the earth when the rest are recycled. The maximum giving will be to seperate from all our humanness, adopt all the behaviors and ways Ti and Do taught and stand for Ti and Do despite the consequences. Those when they are taken off the planet it seems from prophecy get awarded with what I think would be a student level Next Level made physical vehicle and service for continued lessons until they are given the chance to graduate to an adult Next Level vehicle.

Yes, every indication is that, this will be in affect for even 1000 earth years after it’s DONE – which may be only a decade or two away, so it would seem some Souls may be given some lessons in new human vehicles during that 1000 years as part of their service/lessons and may have some interaction with Next Level Older Membes Ti and/or Do. I say this because of the Revelations Prophecies and from everything Do and Ti and Jesus and Moses said and did. For every point mentioned here there are at least three direct depictions in the Book of Revelations that Ti and Do said in 1974-6, via the document they wrote and had published as part the book UFO Missionaries Extraordinary, though have also been given by Do (and Ti) in little clues throughout their years incarnate.

Anyone who indicates there is nothing to do going forward, but perhaps make Ti and Do’s records into a study is participating knowingly or not in a Luciferian space alien misinformation campaign intending to even agree with most everything except seeking to connect with Ti and Do to ask to make application to be in their service and to hit the deck running to start our own forward motion in that service.)

http://thenextweb.com/shareables/2015/04/30/the-gate-is-closed/

1) It was reported that M and S (current names I use for the webmasters of heavensgate.com) said in this article:
“A recent book on this subject, ‘Heaven’s Gate – America’s UFO Religion’ by Benjamin Zeller has been the best work we have seen so far.”

-Sawyer’s comment:
I don’t know why zellers book is the best work they have seen. He sent me an early draft looking for my input and I gave him a great deal and I’ve read parts of the new book and it’s too hard to wade through and is pretty much a carbon copy of Robert Balch’s hypothesis which is far afield and full of misinformation, insults and the like from a so called academic. Even calling Heavens Gate a “ufo religion” I suspect would make Ti and Do and crew gag considering they said that “religions are the number one killers of souls”.

2) It was reported that Jacques Vallee in Messengers of Deception said,
In November it was discovered that the two people who claimed to be the leaders of that outer-space organization were in fact quite ordinary humans: M.H. Applewhite, 43, born in Spur, Texas, a musician and opera singer, the son of Presbyterian minister; and Bonnie Nettles, age 48, a nurse who met him in Houston in the early ‘70s while he was recovering from a mental breakdown. They had first created meditation centres, then about 1973 they began recruiting for H.I.M.

-Sawyers comment:
There is no evidence I have heard of or seen that their first meeting was in a hospital Do was a patient in. Do had every reason to tell the truth about this and told us many times how He and Ti (Bonnie met), which Ti was present for and agreed was in the hospital where Ti worked as a premie baby nurse but on that time of meeting had agreed to substitute for another nurse in a different ward (that was not stated by Do or Ti). Do was with a friend and wrote in the document “88 Update, the UFO TWO and Their Crew”, available on heavensgate.com and on my blog at: https://sawyerhg.wordpress.com/2010/03/02/88-update-the-ufocloud-of-light-two-tifather-and-dojesus-and-their-crew-not-space-aliens-or-discarnate-spirits-or-luciferians/ that he was at the hospital visting a “male friend”. This is when Do first told us, the student body that he had been living a homosexual lifestyle before he awakened. He also told us at that time that he was unhappy with the fact that he wasn’t finding a partner who wanted a committed relationship. Ti told is before this time that Do’s task differed from Jesus task in that he needed to take a vehicle that would get into most all things the vehicles the students would take might get into so he could relate to them what it takes to overcome those human characteristics, such as sexuality. Do said that Ti started a conversation about astrology asking what sign Do was. Do had been interested in astrology so showed interest.

One could research whether or not the ward with the “sick friend” was a mental ward like perhaps due to someone who tried to commit suicide for instance or for someone who had a mental breakdown. I don’t know if that is how that story got started. I’m not saying Do never checked himself into a facility or if he ever had a mental breakdown in his past. It’s possible. I know he indicated he was an alchohol user but I don’t know to what degree. I know he and Ti were quite straight laced and said they did no recreational drugs. And I know he did mingle in Houston high society and was divorced. But Terrie Nettles (Ti’s vehicle’s daughter) didn’t seem to know of this hospital meeting so thought they first met at a voice lesson Do was giving that Ti brought one of her daughters to that may have been Terrie.

Note that Vallee didn’t seem to know that they never wanted followers or students. Do wrote in 88update that when they learned that about a dozen wanted to follow them it was an “unwelcomed surprise” as they thought they would just share their message and move on. Vallee might not know about those they turned away as was reported in Brad Steiger’s book, “UFO Missionaries Extraordinary” and in 1976 how they sent 19 of their followers away from the larger group and Ti then told us who remained, “you made the first cut” as they didn’t think the 19 were ready though a number of years later after this other groups reincorporated back into the world, one in particular had been looking for the group and just so happened to walk into a hospital where a student was working in Amarillo, Texas and recognized her. That was the student named Drrody – Durable + “ody”. Nrrody was working in the Amarillo hospital at that time. By the way I took a lot of time and answered all of Zellers questions for his book and he used next to nothing and nothing changed much of his opinions that sided 100% with Robert Balch whom I also met with and edited a chapter for his book while I was in the group and we had started the second period of public meetings after 17 years of no meetings.

There are many stories of how Ti and Do said and did things that student found challenging so because of chose to leave the group. Do even offerred $2000.00 to any student who wasn’t leaving because they were afraid of the challenge of getting re-started in the world. Do only wanted students who wanted to give their all towards overcoming all of their human characteristics and to serve the Next Level through he and Ti’s instructions.

Thus their recruitment efforts were very successful, except it wasn’t about gaining great numbers. They came to know they would only have a small group of students and it ended up being 24 at one point before the second public meetings but ended at 38+4 which being 42 is in line with Rev 11:2 where “months” is equally translated to “affirmations from that 3 1/2 years time of their Prophecy period a way to make two statements in one.

3) It was reported that Zeller explained:
“The basic theology of Heaven’s Gate was that life on earth was relatively unimportant compared to life in the heavens, which should be our ultimate goal. Put that way, that’s what most Christians believe, particularly evangelical protestants who are a major force in America”.

-Sawyers comment:
To the contrary, Life on Earth was very important to having Life in the heavens as the human evolutionary kingdom was created to be a stepping stone into the Evolutionary Level Above Human. Nor “should it be” the ultimate goal of every human, becaues the Next Level doesn’t give all humans the chance at the same time and in the same ways if at all to make application to membership in the Kingdom in the literal heavens (outer space). That’s why it was compared to a “garden” where there are certain plantings in certain areas at different times and nutured in different ways pertaining to how the plants are growing. So the Moses classroom then became the “plants” with “seeded deposits (souls)” the Next Level chose to work with. But the product is not the physical vehicles. The product is the Soul that becomes filled with degrees of Mind/Spirit that if brought to “spirit birth” as Jesus said would reward them with a New “made” Next Level body that is no longer mammalian and service on board spacecrafts as big as planets, seen or not to cultivate new “gardens” as the way they gain new members. They don’t need new members. It’s simply their joy to offer what they know they have that is so “Beyond Human”.

4) It was reported re: Rob Balch’s forward to Zeller’s book claiming they were disorganized in 1975 when Balch and Taylor infiltrated the group:
“One potential reason for the group’s disorganized state at that time was that Do ended up in prison. In August 1974, he was arrested for failing to return a rental car and jailed for six months. It was during his period that he began to shift his theological thinking towards extraterrestrial life.”

-Sawyers comment:
There is little truth to this. Yes he spent 6 months in prison that stemmed from his keeping a rental car too long. The rental car company dropped the charges as soon as they got the car back but the St. Louis prosecutor, Do reported in 88Update was trying to make points and knew Do was an easy target because of his wild story of being from outer space and Do gave him a strange Tibetan name Nor Bu Young had just given he and Ti as this was in 1974 over a year before Rob Balch infiltrated so how can the two be linked. Ti and Do began to awaken to both being from “outer space” while in Boerne, Texas for less than 6 weeks where they also then realized they, their Minds/souls had been sent to “bring updates to the bible” and “fulfill prophecy”.

5) It was reported that:
“Throughout 1975, Do and Ti began to gather followers. During this time they were using the “Bo” and “Peep” monikers and arranged at least two public events to wait for the arrival of UFOs. When a spaceship failed to land at a gathering in Waldport, Oregon, the group still gained 30 new followers.”

-Sawyers comment:
There were a total of two times we planned for a pickup event. The first was in 1980 when we were camped at “The Cave without a Name” tourist site in Boerne, Texas and yes there was no pickup and Ti told Do from that, that Do told us about after Ti left her vehicle in 1985 (since she scheduled it) that she felt like she had “egg on her face” but it didn’t change her direction and knowing who she was. And it didn’t phase their fully dedicated students either, as I was one it didn’t phase, but for those on the fence it was the reason at least one left the group thereafter. Her name was Jssody. The second event was in 1992 while camping on the BLM lands west of Phoenix that Do being without Ti’s physical presence felt he had instruction from Ti to instigate (though instructions were not that easy to know were instructions so in a sense it was  a trial and error situation. This was not at all the way the schedule to lay down their lives occurred. That took years of examination of every detail and every student that I was present for and was an Overseer so was privey to things others weren’t always privey to (though not much really, but just some insights perhaps of how Do’s mind worked, though still did not make me able to second guess him). Thus since Waldport happened in September of 1975 these are totally unrelated. The 30 new followers came as a result mostly of the 1994 public meetings and many of those ended up leaving as well.

6) It was reported that:
“They then settled on a nomadic lifestyle moving across the United States. In April 1976, Ti announced that the group would no longer hold public meetings and its membership dropped dramatically – from more than 100 to around two dozen.”

-Sawyers comment:
Ti did annouce on April 21, 1976 that the “harvest is closed” and had us just finish up the existing meeting schedule by mid June and there were “about 100” students at that time but it took the next 17 years for the numbers to drop to “around two dozen”. (Note the 24 Elders in the Book of Revelations).

7) It was reported that:
“In 1985, the mass suicide was still 12 years away, but death touched the group significantly. After two years suffering with cancer, Ti died. Do told his followers that she had gone to ‘the Next Level’ because she contained too much energy to remain on Earth, and had abandoned her Earthly vessel for the journey.”

-Sawyers comment:
Do simply said Ti “burnt out her vehicle” dealing with the negativity she was the biggest recipient of as she was the Older Member of Do, so like the grandfather to the student body and when students were having doubts those thoughts went to both she and Do and when members of the human families of students felt anxiety and condemnation of the students teachers the discarnates would attack her (and Do). Ti was depicted in Revelations Chapter 12 as the “woman” and this is shown by the Dragon (the Luciferian space alien souls, even Lucifer in particular as one of those souls) sending out a flood against her. She is saved from it by the “earth opening it’s mouth” to swallow the flood. That’s an expression of someone going into the grave even found in a Crosby Stills Nash and Young song. So her early exit was planned ahead.

8) It was reported that:
“Following the loss of his companion – the pair were not lovers – Do began to adjust and evolve the theology of what would come to be renamed Heaven’s Gate. He decided that Ti’s consciousness had been conveyed to a spaceship when it had left her body. Previously the group’s teachings had focused on actual physical ascension, but Ti’s passing had made that belief untenable.”

-Sawyers comment:
The Heaven’s Gate name came about after I left which was after September of 1994. Ti left in 1985. We had a number of names as we explored different public approaches, Do feeling there was to be another public offerring of the infomation that was more straight forward that Do was the return of the same Soul who had been incarnate in the vehicle named “jesus”. See Do’s article, “Undercover “Jesus” Surfaces Before Final Departure” written in 1995 and posted to 90 somthing usenet groups. (I say this was the 6th of 7 “thunders” (roars) listed in Revelations chapter 10.

That belief that they could all be taken with their physical bodies was never “untenable” though I admit Ti’s exit did reveal their exit would not necessarily be with their physical bodies. This is shown in the document I’ve already noted, “Undercover “Jesus”…” showing that in 1995 they still thought it possible they could be taken without “laying down their bodies” in the way they did by their own hands.

9) It was reported that:
“Do believed once the group had reached ‘Evolutionary Level Above Human – the Next Level’ they would be able to leave their physical ‘vessels’ and be transported to heaven – a literal planet – on a spaceship controlled by extraterrestrials. One of those beings was Jesus. In Do’s doctrine, Jesus was a gateway to heaven, but on his first visit to Earth found humanity to be unready for ascension.”

-Sawyers comment:
This is very convoluted to say the least. To put it simply, Do believed if they exited by leaving their human vehicles behind their Soul bodies which are invisible to humans that would not have died would be met by Next Level members who were invisible to humans and they would board an invisible space craft sent to receive them. Yes one could call that spacecraft “heaven” because at that point one is in the keeping of the Kingdom of Heaven, but where they would go from there was never spelled out while I was there nor in any of the information they left behind that I have found. However, Ti and Do did say they were from “headquarters” and that some might be assigned to work in headquarters and there was some implication that headquarters was locally inside the planet Pluto. Ti and Do instigated a movie script that they said was “science fiction based on the truth” in which Pluto as a huge spacecraft that housed a “earth lab” with a scaled replica of the earth through which Next Level crewmembers could observe and perhaps communicate with any part of earth or earthling.

Yes Members of the Next Level were “extraterrestrial” but didn’t look like the aliens we see mostly in hollywood movies – that look grotesque or like insects, etc. They have very delicate shapes and features that they designed humans to resemble in likeness though have a slightly larger head, small lips if they even have lips, depending on the type of vehicle designed for each members as members keep on graduating to new model vehicles or vehicles for differnet tasks.

Ti said Do was the same soul who started in the task of Adam, then Enoch, then Moses, then Elijah and then Jesus. But yes Jesus was the gateway 2000 years ago, both him as a person in that vehicle he took over and related to his student body through and by his teachings of the requirements of seperating from our human roots and human mammalian behaviors and ways, such as sexuality. But to date, Do then became the “currently present” Representative. If we don’t please Do and Ti then they are not going to want to have us on their crew on board a spacecraft doing tasks for them. Ti assigned Do the task of birthing the student body completly though she came to help get him started, thus He is this civilizations current and only GATE into Heaven which is 100% consistant with everything Jesus represented.

10) It was reported that Zeller said re: Hale Bopps reported “companion object”:
“…claims about a mysterious object, a ‘companion’, following the comet that seemed to move unnaturally and even influence the movements of the comet became the focus of the group. While these claims would later be debunked, and the members of Heaven’s Gate ultimately indicated that the nature of the mysterious object was in fact irrelevant, the interest in the companion and the comet among members of the fringe and conspiracy-orientated alternative media attracted the attention and interest of the group’s adherents.”

-Sawyers comment:
There is a great deal to say about what Zeller so easily just says were “debunked” that even scientists who are still engaged in trying to understand would not be so blatently challenging. For instance in one NASA forum on Hale Bopp, the concensus is that what we are calling Hale Bopp was actually two object in orbit around one another – spoken of as having a double nucleus that is not understood how is possible. Since that time there have been so many events in the heavens that have put current science on it’s ear, so to speak that to say with any certainty what is not possible is ignorance.

11) It was reported that:
“If it happened today, the mass suicide of Heaven’s Gate members who be the stuff of memes in the darkest corners of the internet. The details were precise – black uniforms with matching “Away Team” patches, new white Nikes, purple shrouds. Each member with rolls of quarters and five dollar bills in their pockets, and duffle bags beside them”.

-Sawyers comment:
It was “three quarters” not rolls and that added up to $5.75 which is what Mark Twain said was the cost to ride the tail of a comet to heaven.
I didn’t know this when I was first interviewed by Zeller and others before him, though I did update him I believe before his book went to print. I don’t recall whether he mentions the Mark Twain “coincidence”.

12) It was reported that:
Though they are the only ex-Heaven’s Gate members in control of the group’s legacy and archives, there are other former adherents.
One, Rio DiAngelo wrote a book about his experience. Another, Sawyer, has a frequently updated blog, and often appears in the comments of articles and YouTube videos about the group.

The response from the Heaven Gate’s website admins gives a hint at the underlying tension between them and other ex-members. When I asked them about Sawyer, they replied:

“ There is one other person who was in the group who writes a blog but the group did not give him any instructions when they left and he hasn’t been in the loop of what is currently going on with their information. Simply said, he is doing his own thing.

Zeller told me:

“ There’s a lot of discussion about whether people should add to and explain the group or just let it be over. There’s a lot of debate over who owns the copyrights.

-Sawyers response:
The webmasters who I refer to as M and S, are wrong about who received instructions when they left, though I know it requires looking at all Do and crew said to M & S AND in their general and specific teachings of how to align with them, in this case “after” their exit. In the letters that M & S received, which I have there was a statement that was talking about the money they left behind, or that came from the sale of certain items and how they hoped it would be split up between “anyone who wants to participate in this project” (of disseminating their information and giving people who want to know the ability to know more about them – in depth, which was the reason they left the 484 or so audio tapes behind. Here are two actual quotes from one of the 5 letters sent to M & S in their FedX packet:

-“We put into storage items that we would prefer the authorities not have access to. You can do with those items whatever feels right to you. The only exception to this is some exercise equipment which belongs to our landlord, Sam, and we suspect he will want at some point.”

Still talking about the content of the storage that included a truck they suggested be used to load up the contents of one of the storage rooms:

-“Pursers have included an additional document as part of this packet that further covers the disposition of our cars and this truck. So we ask that you refer to that document for details. It is out desire that any items of value that are retrievable by you be divided among those who feel inclined to disseminate our information.  Any of the funds you retrieve can be used towards that end and for the living expenses of those involving themselves in this project.”

The items of value that are retrievable is referring to the content of the storage room that included stacked up in the very front of the storage room the cases of about 484 audio tapes. To not consider them the most valuble items in storage is blatently ignoring what was important to Ti and Do and crew but that is a choice to recognize but there are a number of other things said in these letters to give that impression.

However, one might wonder, why Do and Crew went to such a meticulous effort to cover their bases with providing their information to multiple former classmembers, backup webmasters and providers (Rkkody and Romania and an Atlanta couple) and sent the Beyond Human master video tapes to Jhnody in Venezuala (not to M & S) and sent Rkkody master exit video’s and CNN exit videos and other master materials to Rio and Flxody/Ablody but didn’t treat the 484 audio tapes with that same kind of planning.

From a human perspective it doesn’t make any sense or looks like an oversight. They could have easily bundled them up to spread them out among these believers who had dropped out of the class for their own reasons. Actually I was still in the class when we began transcribing these audio tapes but that effort was put on a back burner by 1994. The non-human explanation that I believe to be the most likley reason(s) for the way Do and Crew handled those tapes, was that this was the instruction Do got from Ti (who was outside her vehicle by then). The way he received instructions was often by asking specific questions and then seeing what ideas he got after that. I witnessed a great deal of how this worked. I never heard Do say Ti visited him in a physical way after her exit of her vehicle. (though Rio reported in his book that when they were in the Tucson, AZ area (around 1996 I think it was), 6 members of the class had an experience one night (3 in a dream, one of which was Rio and 3 reported the same thing but not in a dream) where they were visited by what Rio described as “six year old, hairless, little boys. Glowing like white phosphorescence with a blue tint and wore one piece, form fitting outfits, like Olympic speed skaters.”

However, when idea’s came they were like if someone told you something your mother or father or someone close to you had said, you knowing them might have a sense of whether or not that was something they would have said. I know this because while in the class, Do told the student body they could talk directly to Ti. (Ti had instructed us while incarnate to direct our committment to Do, though while incarnate when we had questions we treated them as a team). And he said with that we could report to him if we feel we get a response. I did talk to Ti and asked her a question and heard in my head a subtle idea/voice with a specific answer. I don’t actually remember what I asked and what the response was, but I reported it to Do and Do said to me, “sounds like something Ti might say”. Recognizing their Mind, though we shouldn’t get overconfident in non-physical forms of communication, like in Dreams, for instance is part of bonding with them and is as much a bond, even moreso potentially as between any humans who grow to know others and how they think/feel about things.

So, sometimes it’s that simple but the ramifications are enormous as in this case, Do not spelling out exactly what was to be done with the tapes ended up setting up a huge test criteria for all who came after, by informing what their intention was and then allowing the recipients, in this case M & S to choose to abide by their intention and to what degree or not.

Therefore my point is that there is a huge amount of evidence that ANYONE WHO WANTED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PROJECT OF DISSEMINATING THEIR INFORMATION WAS CONSIDERED TO BE EQUAL TO ANY OTHERS REGARDLESS OF WHO RECEIVED WHAT INSTRUCTIONS. We all dropped out because of our own weaknesses to overcome aspects of our humanness, but if we choose to still make application to be in Ti and Do’s service the opportunity is still available by our asking and showing by our actions.

In regard to the second part of M & S’s statement about me: “and he hasn’t been in the loop of what is currently going on with their information”.

What loop is that exactly? If they determine they are the sole guardians of the information, they are being deceitful as even in these few quotes I provided from the letters it’s clear they wanted ANYONE who desired to help with the project to receive help in funds, automobile etc. How does that mean one has to be in M & S’s loop on what’s going on with Ti and Do and Crews Information?

In the human way of looking at it all it makes perfect sense. To be in their loop would be to work with and for M & S in the ways they have organized that was given to them as a task to get started on but since have tried to take over all dissemination and even surpress dissemination by going after anyone who distributed information on their own as there is a great deal of evidence of. Remember, Do and Crew didn’t actually give them the masters of the Beyond Human video tapes and gave no instructions to have them copyrighted but they it seems convinced Jhnody to give them those masters that they have since copyrighted I believe. So they have been hard at trying to be the holders of all the information which by the way is the same way the Vatican Holy See in all it’s corruption did the same with the manuscripts of writings about Jesus and the Dead Sea scrolls, etc. limiting access to their inner circle and deciding which materials could be seen by the public.

M & S for years would not even provide myself and Crlody with the audio tapes. However, Rkkody did send me a cd with about half of the tapes he digitized and Carlan posted them on a sharing site and we both send them to anyone who wants them for free while M & S have finally put them up for sale on Heavensgate.com.

They are the webmasters and they got the instructions to make some choices but in Do’s mind like I’ve proven by the letter segments above, it’s up to each individual who is “in the loop” and has nothing at all to do with adhering to what M & S say and do. They are not Older Members from the Next Level with that authority. In the human world they have some authority for the time being.

But I do agree with M & S’s statement that sawyer is “doing his own thing”, at least from their perspective but what they don’t know is how much of “that own thing” is something Ti and Do approve of or even have tasked me to do, because if one believes in Ti and Do and who they were/are – the return of the Father and the one who was incarnate in the vehicle named, “Jesus”, with the hundreds of scriptural evidence of that, that I have ammassed, then their “project” is not at all done though it will quickly be done, but when it’s done we won’t be able to talk about it anymore in this way so there won’t be much question that it’s done. I can espound on that a great deal if anyone wants me to.

By the way, the gate is Do and Do did not close the gate. He said it would be open for a short time but remember to the Next Level 1000 years in human time is like 1 day so a short time is relative to what Ti and Do determine in the timing of when the gate is closed.

“Third Eye” way Luciferian Space Aliens Steal Souls

Below I have listed a youtube channel post that is entitled: “Symptoms and Side Effects of Opening You Third Eye Chakra”. The introductury text follows and the link is at the end. My comment to one of the commenters follows this introduction. Note the person who made this video says they have an ebook with “17 steps” in the title, another way the Luciferian space aliens sew seeds of confusion to try to commondeer the Next Level’s efforts. This is yet another area in which those standing for Ti and Do can get familiar to provide help to some who are being trapped by the Luciferian space aliens and their supporters (whether they know it or not):

YOUTUBE VIDEO INTRODUCTION:

Symptoms and Side Effects of Opening You Third Eye Chakra – What will happen After Third Eye Awakening and what are the signs of an open third eye? The third eye chakra, or Ajna Chakra in Sanskrit, is our connection to our spirituality and is located between your eyebrows. Third eye meditation can helps you open and activate this chakra. But before you start your third eye awakening, you should take some time to learn more about this chakra and what you can expect from opening it and what you need to be aware of. So here are a couple of things many people have reported experiencing after opening their third eye, and the signs you can look for is you have already opened your third eye, both good and bad.

What Will Happen After Opening The Third Eye Chakra
Many people have experienced hearing a loud popping sound from inside the middle of their head when they first open their third eye chakra. This is believed to be the opening and activation of the pineal gland. The pineal gland is a small hormone-producing gland that is connected to the third eye and is what regulates our sleep rhythm and releases melatonin.
A very normal side effect of opening the third eye is an intense pressure on your forehead and you may feel a consistent tingling or vibrating sensation on the third eye that can stay for days after opening the third eye chakra. This is only a sign that the meditation has worked and your third eye is awakening. This will go away within days, so don’t worry.
People often times experience symptoms directed to their vision and they begin seeing unexplainable things not from this world. This is what you need to be prepared for, as it will be a frightening experience if you are not properly informed and did not prepare yourself for this. One of the things you may see are paranormal entities or what we call spirits of those who have passed. You can develop clairvoyance and the ability to communicate with spirits. Some people see other beings not of this world, and could be creatures of other dimensions or what religion might refer to as demons. No matter what type of entity you may encounter, it will be a very overwhelming experience, and for some people it starts to feel like insanity and something they have a difficult time shutting out.
This is why opening the third eye is something you should prepare yourself for, so that you know what you are dealing with and what you can expect. This means that you have to be patient and take some time learning about the third eye before you actually try opening it… it will greatly benefit you in the end.
So to some of the more positive sides of opening the third eye is your increased ability to develop your psychic abilities and many people have reported experiencing astral travel, seeing auras and a greatly improved intuition.
Other symptoms of an open third eye chakra is more subtle. You will for instance improve your awareness and notice more things around you that were only background elements to you before. You step out of the state of autopilot, where you just go through your day not noticing or paying attention to anything.
Some describe a state of objectiveness where you are not blinded by your eyesight and the illusions and lies your eyes fall a victim to, but you will be able to see things more clearly and sense the truth and reality that is difficult to put into words. This could be a sign that your intuition or sixth sense is improving.
A lot of people say they see lights or colors while meditating, and this is just a sign that your chakra is activating. At some point they may even start to see pictures in their minds eye when they meditate, which in the beginning are very unclear and like a blurry image. Over time with third eye practice, the images will become clearer. Some will see an eye with the indigo or purple color of the third eye chakra in their minds eye.

Get my eBook “The Third Eye – A 17 Step Activation Plan”
video link: https://youtu.be/K1pxp6sE15g

*** end of introductory text and video link on youtube channel post ***

COMMENTS BY A YOUTUBER AND MY COMMENT TO THE COMMENTER:

America Anuchiracheeva asks:

If there is any technical advise to avoid any dark entities scary stuff? thanyou for your advise.

My comment to America Anuchiracheeva as 3spm:

There are no entities that are not scary who will be attracted to you by continuing playing with these tricks. The lower forces of the planet love to have “vehicles”  they can work through. These include space aliens that are actually no longer “space” aliens because they can no longer travel very far from earth – the reason they are trying to get humans to do so, because they wish to escape the earth where they have been in prison for thousands of earth years.

Several years ago, I believe I was given a sample of a third eye opening, I suspect to show me what people were doing and seeing and experiencing as a result. After a few weeks of seeing things it was removed. This third eye opening is a fake enlightenment. What someone is doing with this meditation might be compared to adding a device to your “brain” (computer) that provides a more powerful interface with whatever spirits and actually space aliens that want to use your vehicle. Sure they can assist you in many human things but true enlightenment means you have risen above the human evolutionary kingdom. I don’t think there are any truely enlightened being on the planet right now. I say that because I was the student of TWO enlightened beings, who incarnated into the body of a human woman and a human man in the 1970’s who took the names Ti and Do. They proved to me over 19 years with them that they were from the One True/Real Many Membered Physical Evolutionary Level Above Human – the organization of Beings who have evolved by choice above the human evolutionary condition. They don’t circulate on earth any more than a human would be comfortable living in a wild dog pack or worse yet a snake pit. We can’t actually rise to their state of enlightening without them because what that means is actually filling a “deposit container/pocket” (soul) they install in certain human vehicles, with Their Mind, (spirit) which is living information that if adhered to can grow within that deposit and eventually can be harvested from our vehicle, usually when it dies IF we qualify as they don’t need us and they don’t want just anyone to fill space on their spacecrafts where they live and work, so they make it very hard to join their ranks, but not so hard that anyone who keeps seeking their help can’t accomplish it.

Each person who wants to verify that I am telling the truth about this can project their asking beyond the nearest stars to Them – especially in the names Ti and Do. It’s your choice but to chose these other entites that are space aliens and/or discarnate human spirits is a dead end for your soul. They love having souls as they don’t know how to make a soul and nor can they kill a soul. Only the Next Level who designed everyting and all the life forms can make or destroy a soul. This is one of a number of ways the Luciferian space alien (fallen angels) capture souls that have been planted into humans becaue of the lure of power one gets to see things others don’t see and to have an advantage in the receipt of future help with the intention to capture others. They also want the DNA from those they capture as then they can propogate hybrids they and your soul can prepare for when each physical body being used now dies. They can have you believe when you die you will then be “free” and have that be a welcomed condition theoretically – not encumbered by physicality but it’s an illusion of freedom as once discarnate one can not FEEL sensations in the same way so there is a “wanting” that can not be satiated but they get some satisfaction by influencing living humans to be their tools. This is the norm for the entire human society. All our vehicles are time shared computer systems. The only part that is “us” is the “decider” of what to think, and do.

Now that it’s nearing recycle time it’s especially crutial to those that can still make some sense out of what I’m saying as there is yet another even higher level we need our physical body to make application for and has to be done entirely by choice that involves many steps to progress to and they must be the steps received from an Older Member of the Evolutionary Kingdom Level Above Human that they provided when they came incarnate as they have done a number of times since the start of their latest “garden” like experiment designed to grow souls into new members of their Kingdom. All these things taught by the Luciferian space aliens is permitted by the Next Level Older Members because it serves to provide us with a total choice of what to become in their “garden”. We can become as rotten as the Luciferians chose to become, that they don’t think they are and even have many disbelieving they even exist.

The Next Level will recycle those and it’s very soon without a middle aged person’s human lifetime that that will be completed which will include dissolving the “spirit world” and leveling and spading the entire planet, what some are mis-thinking will “heaven” on earth while it will be a time period to where the planet will have a rest and restoration of the harm the Luciferian space aliens and human sheeple have caused on it, mostly in destroying having any chance to choose to recognized these Creator Beings. Ti is the Chief Administrator of this garden. She, though is not a gendered being, took a female vehicle with Do and fulfilled the Revelations Two Witnesses prophecy and all the prophecies, though some have yet to play out. She was the One who planted a deposit soul into the vehicle they made (not by human mammalian reproduction) to start the recent experiment.

Do was serving by taking over the Adam vehicle and he fell to the influence of the Luciferian space aliens who were allowed to be present to set up the testing criteria. That same soul last known as Do (and to date) recovered over 7 generations later and took over the vehicle named Enoch who then came incarnate as Moses and then Jesus and possibly guatama Buddha and who knows who in previous civilizations on Earth and/or on another planet. This is NOT christian talk nor spiritual. It’s the real deal – the only real deal on earth and in the heavens – literally outer space. There is a great deal to say about all this but it’s up to you to seek it out. I’m simply providing an avenue but I am not a “teacher” from the Next Level. I am a student of Ti and Do, so I have zero desire for followers of me or to start an organization or new religion as religions at this time are all killers of souls because of how they draw people to become satisfied with the human condition and even satisfied to die thinking they get some “heaven” without the huge investment needed of showing the Next Level we want to serve Them on Their Crews on board spacecrafts large and small all over the universe.

You can contact Ti and Do by projecting your asking beyond the stars to them or if that’s too strange to use their names to the highest Living Being you can imagine exists and if you are sincere they will show you that I speak Their truth. They never lure or manipulate anyone though the have a very certain “rule” for their “”God” Astronaut Training Program” which they first called a “Human Individual Metamorphosis”.

Conclusion:

This person asking if there is a way to avoid the dark forces sounds to me like a ripe soul in that vehicle where many are overrippened and are already sold themselves to the Luciferians. As usual it’s not our job to save souls as religionists often do. It’s our job if we choose to take it to show the choices by introducing people to Ti and Do and their Next Level Above Human so they can judge for themselves who to give their allegience to.

I’m not saying everything I said in this post is exactly as Ti and Do would have said it. In fact I am confident I didn’t. I would welcome anyone’s help to improve my post and make it their own or start from scrach to make their own using quotes from Ti and Do and Crew and references to documents they left behind. If you leave those quotes in comments on this blog post I’ll include them to make this post better.

Ti & Do= Jesus Return of “The Way Truth & Life

Comment on Youtube channel to my request for proof that I was following false prophets as Ti and Do:

John 14:6  This is Jesus speaking to his disciples, ” I am the way, the truth and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.”
Anyone who claims differently, insisting they also have access, are false, they are serpents. Who will be dealt with.
Matthew 28:18 Jesus came and told his disciples,” I have been given all authority in heaven and on earth.”

My reply:

I agree 100% that Jesus by his example in every way provided everything needed to come to the Father and that there was no other way to come to the Father.

That is why HE gave us the Lords Prayer – showing them and us how to communicate with the Father.

It was by his example of everything he said and did and gave instructions for his disciples to think, say and do that by adopting become that only truthful “way” that can result in obtaining “Life” as Jesus meant it, which wasn’t life in the human kingdom which Jesus said was not his “world” (environment).

Did Jesus exist before he was in that body named Jesus? The answer is yes.
Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

 

Did he use the name Jesus then? No. It can be shown that he was operating as the Archangel (captain of angels) called Michael, verified in Rev 12:7 but study how Michael is described as “anointed”, thus a “christ” – (part of the meaning of being anointed by God) in the Book of Daniel for more evidence.
And did not Jesus say he as the “son of man” would be returning warning us that if someone comes “in my name” saying they are christ, not to believe or follow them as they are false prophets.
If we were warned to watch out for humans claiming to be Jesus the Christ, what name would he then come incarnate with?
If he wasn’t coming incarnate in a human body again, why warn us what to watch out for among humans?
And why would he tell us when he came back he would have a “new name” and would tell us the “name of my God”. Jesus consider The Father his God?:
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
So he is going to “mark” (write) on those that seek to conquer/overcome, prevail – three names, but more accurately translated as a revealing of three new identities and the label each has for our communication – one for “God” (his and our Father) the “walled or bordered geographical area” (city of his God) and His own NEW name.
The New Jerusalem is described as about 1360 miles square in size. (Rev 21:16). And it contains those who are the “bride” – the twelve apostles. It is seen “descending” from the sky/heaven and is constructed of pure gold – a metallic element not a spiritual construct though it’s so pure it’s “like unto clear glass” which we know pure gold is transparant.
It’s a physical object.
Who did Jesus say was coming back?
Joh 14:22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Abode is used most often as equivilent to “living with” – “dwelling with” literally. If he was hovering among the clouds he wouldn’t be dwelling with us and notice it says “WE…will make our abode with him.

Where else does Jesus indicate He and his Father come back incarnate (in the flesh) – what a “son of man” is – a human offspring?

Rev 12:1 And there appeared (show) a great wonder in (for sake of, because of)  heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Most Christian writers/speakers say this “woman” is the church but that’s false because the church is the body of believers. How can the believers give birth to someone who was to take the “throne” task. Only the Father could promote her son to the throne task she occupied.

Are there any clues to the One who was incarnate in the vehicle named Jesus – new name and the name of His “God”?

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount (elevated rise) Sion (dry desert area), and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads (amid or accompanying the face).

Again, an indication the Father has a name that’s not “Father” anymore and is not said to be in Heaven either and is among the Lamb (who was incarnate as Jesus) and the 144 and myriad of thousands “standing” on a elevated rise of dry desert. One of the primary meanings to “resurrect” is to “stand up again” meaning to take over a human vehicle. Thus this is depicting the return of the ones who became the Saints because they gave their lives 100% to Jesus service and died for him as he said they MUST – drink the same cup of his blood he was drinking. That was part of the WAY Jesus was showing the WAY in truth to LIFE eternal.

That was showing him they loved him by keeping his commandment to them just as he was demonstrating by keeping his Father’s commandment to “lay down his life” for his sheep. Remember Jesus said, “no man takes it (his human life) from me”. He chose to die and did not try to save his life in the human world which he easily could have done by not coming back to jerusalem where he knew the jewish priests were wanting to kill him. In that real sense he committed what was actually a suicide (to his humanness) mission and led his disciples to do the same by telling the truth knowing they too would be hated and killed for doing so.

Rev 14 goes on to describe that each of those on the dry desert rise in their human vehicles they were instructed to take over for their task to complete their overcoming through which is the real definition of a “spirit birth” by being “born again of water (flesh)” as jesus said they would be. And they each had “harps”:

Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
A “harper” is one who plays their harp and accompanies it with their voice (sound from their mouth) – a lyre-singer.
Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before (in the presence of) the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

The throne at this point is both the One who was called the Father and the one who was birthed by the Father to his new position on the throne who was incarnate as Jesus.

They learn a NEW song to sing. The new song is actually taught by the Father and Lamb. It wasn’t an accident that Do, took a human vehicles named AppleWhite who became an opera singer and choral director and star in the Houston Opera for a time that he gave up to perform his task when his Father woke him up.

They were all in the “wilderness” high chapparel desert plateau living outdoors in “Medicine Bow” (as in covenant) National Forest in the no facility rustic camping area called Veedavou which means “earth born” when they changed their names from Bo and Peep to Ti and Do, named after the Song in the Sound of Music they felt was the Kingdom of God, Kingdom in the Heavens way of helping them get an idea of what their task entailed to have Hollywood produced as they did.

Hollywood is Isaiah’s definition of Jerusalem as the “valley of vision” – as in motion picture industry and the “valley” also a parched desert area and is where the Two Witnesses are both “subued” and “seperate, exit, go away from/by dying themselves. (Greek apokteino auto), though Ti left her vehicle ahead of them as shown in:

Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

“earth opened up her mouth” is a way of saying her body was swallowed by the earth into the grave. “She” always said, she came to get “Do” going and then would return.

Finally in this brief bit of evidence, the New Jerusalem, the new name of the new Jerusalem, that is as why tell us it will have a new name and then tell us what it is except to describe it’s resemblance in history.

When the Two Witnesses are subdued (said as overcome):

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

First off, the greek “ptoma” is from the alternate “pipto” which means, “a ruin” so it’s not necessarily a “dead body”. However their human bodies were “dead bodies” as all human bodies that don’t change over into glorified bodies are. Jesus verified this by saying to someone who said they wouldn’t join with him until they buried their father, “let the dead bury the dead”.

What was ruined though was their human reputations that was broadcast all over the nation calling them dangerous cult leaders of the UFO cult because they said a “cloud of light” was a Kingdom of God spacecraft.

In any case, you will note in Rev 11:8 they are ruined while in the “spiritual” which is greek, “pneumatikos” meaning “non-physical” Sodom, Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified, thus the new represenative equivilent of Jerusalem as Los Angeles – the City of Angels which is a straight (street) shot west from the equivilent of Sodom in Las vegas where Ti and Do just so happened to be in a hotel when the CBS evening news broke the story that they felt ruined their mission – they were “shot down by the media” as far as they were concerned and told their students that knowing the students who were about 70 then would be in their rights to leave them because they suspected they might not be demonstrating rising from the grave the way Jesus did.

There is a mountain of evidence that this is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Please for your sake, talk to your Heavenly father about this before discounting out of hand but ask all the questions to challenge it and I’ll be glad to show you that it’s the truth.

Phoenix Lights=alien attempt to upstage Heavens Gate HaleBopp Comet Encounter

Below is my comment to a blogger who reports new airforce footage of a jet following a triangle shaped black, so called UFO, that allegedly occurred during the famous March 13th 1997 Phoenix Lights sightings. The link to her blog and the link to the video of the jet in pursuit of the triangle UFO is at the end of this post. (It shows the cockpit view from the jet and the craft it is in pursuit of that is black and triangle shaped and is very clearly some type of manufactured craft dipping and rolling about).  I wanted to express some of what I thought could have been behind the Phoenix lights event, whether this triangle craft was space alien generated or U.S. govn’t instigated or a joint human and human equivilent program development – perhaps the least likley scenerio, at least in any kind of direct fashion.

Sawyer’s comment:

You could be right about some or all of what was called the Phoenix Lights being staged one way or the other, either by humans and/or by space aliens. If it was staged by humans or space aliens, I say it was because of ideas given to humans to have a reason to do so and at that specific time and location, because that’s how both the space aliens and humans work. Ti and Do taught that all humans to include human equivilent space aliens are influenced by discarnates and/or thought projections and it’s the ones known as Lucifer and his associates, who wield the biggest influence and who teach mortal discarnates to do the same which can be as simple as giving certain humans who have authority direction as ideas they would have.

The space aliens are not one group either. Their made up of multiple races, literally brought to the earth vicinity without their knowledge by the provisons of highways in the heavens they were given a one way pass on. Othewise there was no way for them to traverse the distances within even a number of human lifetimes, though some do have extended liftimes that Do indicated to about 1000 years (which shows in the records of the current early part of the civilization).

So the space alien races don’t have one organization though may have alliances with one another that extend to human governmental organizations, I believe Ti and Do also indicated. Ti and Do spent little time on all this. It’s little tiny one sentence tidbits that when looking back and combining with what we learn about from reports shape a picture that makes reality look far stranger than any fiction, though The Next Level is the source of even that fiction indirectly and directly, though some of which comes from the ideas the Luciferian space aliens provide humans in thought as ideas and motivations to play out their agendas.

So the aliens have competitions among one another for the spoils of the planet” whcih is also spelled out in non-religious historically recorded word of mouth/written Jesus forcasting of this time, referred to as prophecy. However, in general, which always works it’s way down to the same specifics the aliens have the same agenda to steal “souls” and/or to advance human’s in technological development they can benefit from and/or advance their hybridization programs to develop new bodies from, they can program for their use (that the bodies don’t know is happening because of the mind control over them from their bith as we also see throughout human populations) or to develop longevity and survivalist technologies and sustainable energy system development – to power their spacecrafts and environments on craft and provide sustenence that also carrys over to their hiding in their underground bases where they have been forced to retreat during previous civilizational recycling times.

I know from reports that particular triangle shaped black craft that look like the one later shown to be among the first “stealth” aircraft designs were seen by people I’ve read in reports over the years and had conversation with one who is a Hopi descendent in Arizona who did quite a bit of investigation into the Phoenix lights and the triangle shaped craft who went to Virginia and got a hold of some footage of the same kind of craft in that  airspace. Virgina seems to definitely be a hub and is even where Virginia Tech hosted a mirror Heaven’s Gate “cult of truth” site and it’s interesting that it’s been “marked” it seems by the Next Level in these latest “fireball” sightings at the end of January of this year of 2016 that also marked Arizona with a sighting, Maine (kennebunkport?) to North Carolina and Kentucky, this time around.

By the way, those “fireballs” as I reported seem to be arriving in the same pattern as they did first in 2013 that started with the Russian Cherblynsk “meteor” that flew over that city and did result in some minor injuries from thousands of broken windows but no fatalities or serious injuries reported. In fact, each year starting in 2013 the Fireballs were followed by a near miss asteroid and a couple comet that in several cases came out of nowhere that came to perihelion within days of the March 22nd Hale Bopp’s perihelion, when the Heaven’s Gate “cult of truth” members layed down their lives, believing doing so was TIMED by the comet’s arrival as they had been anticipating since 1975 to come to pick them up. For those that know some of that history, one would know that at that time Ti and Do thought we’d be picked up with our vehicles, while they also thought each student that was fully embracing what they taught was literally growing something inside of our human bodies. They didn’t get any more specific than that at that time but only said we were going to experience “body changes”. It was many years later that Do spoke about how the “deposit” provided each who is “called” to the opportunity is a physical container that houses Next Level Mind (holy spirit). They knew that was what would be born but they didn’t know when the Next Level would move that “body” out of the human body and into the Next Level body that was to be “grown” for that student according to what they had risen to in their metamorphic changeover.  Therefore when it happened by their own hands that was the method to exit their human bodies and since those soul bodies are invisible to humans it was the “spririt/mind (soul) birth” Jesus spoke about happening upon his return. Therefore Ti and Do were 100% correct in thinking we would be picked up with our bodies – it just was the only body the Next Level harvests as they have no need for human bodies – they can grow them by the billions easily.

But why wouldn’t Ti and Do have said that it was our “soul body” that would be harvested in the first place. As they always said, they were only informed about what was going to happen and with certain understandings a little ahead of the student body. That is strategy becaues the Next Level knows the Luciferians will be looking for every way to create facsimili events and understandings and doubts and side issues to try to thwart the Next Level’s harvest of souls as they want souls for themselves, to add to their ranks and also resent the Next Levels authority over them so if nothing more want to try to prove them wrong at every turn.

And yet the Next Level knowing that uses it for several purposes. When something they say is later seen differently by them it’s uncanny to see how it resulted in a filtering of those who were not ready to go the distance of overcoming their humanness. Plus it provides another filter, giving people who might be on the fence an easy out as if someone wants an easy out, they too will not at that time go the distance, though for all it doesn’t mean once one has left a classroom or never even joined, that they can’t at any time switch gears and say to the Next Level, for those hearing this, to Ti and Do, they want to give it all they got, so want the help to do so. And by the way, if the “bombardment” from the lower forces we all must experience that trys to turn our eyes away from further growth towards Next Level Membership seems too hard to handle, then Ti and Do said we could ask the Next Level (Them) to ease up some.

Coming back to the Phoenix Lights, from the reports of that event, that triangle craft doesn’t seem to explain the famous “7 lights” that don’t look like one craft in their configuration, (but I don’t recall if they moved around, so could have been one craft or a combo of crafts forming a formation.) I don’t think drone technology was that well in place then).

What many in the know about space alien activity and in governments who have knowledge of space alien activity, that becomes divided into “good and bad aliens”, may not be open to considering, and that even some Christians who believe UFO’s are evidence of the fallen angels often don’t want to consider is that none of these are representative of the physical Living Above Human Beings who evolutionarily created everything. Some of these Christians will say, for instance that the UFO’s are satan yet will say space aliens don’t exist a typical way the Luciferians twist anyone’s thinking away from further reality. Where the non-christian based scientists and such, if they have recognized and dealt with the entire ufo and space aliens among us evidence will often say, there are both good and bad aliens – another Luciferian viewpoint that allows them to continue to enslave humans who were waking up more. As Jesus said “tricks” both in physical (ufo sightings and strange abduction accounts) and mental to miss the greater reality in front of us, to even sway those of the “elect” or “remainder”, another reason we won’t see the Next Level staging a sighting like the phoenix lights UNTIL the chance to be harvested in some fashion is passed as said in:

Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

and then Do in his Next Level vehicle with graduates in their Next Level vehicles come with their armada of spacecraft “white horses” to be seen by EVERY EYE ON EARTH. I’d bet even the blind will have a minds picture of that, though that verse that says that also  refers to all manner of people seeing and some seeing because they have eyes to see.

NEXT LEVEL STRATEGY?

One thing that seems to be apparant is how Do and Crew of the 38 students had been building an “earthship” near Manzano, New Mexico until November of 1995 and suddenly got instructions from Ti (from His spacecraft) for Do and crew to move to Scottsdale,  and Paradise Valley, AZ. They had been hauling supplies to build their compound near Manzano “all summer long” (certain residents reported) and were regularily in touch with the people they rented office space from, that saw them everyday and knew of their earthship project and some of their far out thinking that wasn’t really out of place in that area.

The group bought that 40 acre plot, where they had intended to potentially stage or hope for an exit of their vehicles at the hands of the government, thinking along the lines of staging what happened at Waco with David Koresh and the Branch Davidian group. (Do was constantly seeking Ti’s will for them to conclude their nearly 25 years incarnate and was willing to provoke the government to accellerating their exit IF he felt Ti was behind their doing so. There is a great deal to talk about regarding Do’s thinking in this regard that can easily be ignored but I’ll just say that the human vehicle was never thought of as being harvested so how the souls would exit was always something  to try to stay in tune to as they also never knew when, though at one point they took a stab at it and the spacecraft didn’t come take us away so Ti told Do that he told us later after she left that she felt like she had “egg on her face” and then some students left the classroom shortly thereafter, presumably related to that forcast of “not more than 5 years” not being accurate. Ti and Do regretted saying that. Before saying that when asked how long before the craft comes, they would say “months”. That was their instruction to say and one can easily see why – because this wasn’t going to be a start of a new religion and they wern’t interested in lots of members, and they knew that it was possible to be months and they knew that one had to have a fire under them to hit the deck running or they would never make the grade. Ti and Do always kept an urgency about changing. It was a training program afterall.

It was in mid 1994 that we first believed we might have to “self exit” our vehicles as we put that suggestion into a poster used during the last meeting we gave in 1994 after 9 months of such meetings across the U.S. That was followed by a sense that no matter what we said publically, our exit and end of the task was probably not going to occur by another’s hand.

I was with them until September of 1994 when we had a meeting with even the new members of the group that had been gathered during that 2nd public meeting offering (after 17 years living in seclusion – “overcoming our human behaviors and ways”, which was after the first public meeting spree that also lasted for 9 months) where Do described in detail a plan to self exit by drinking a barbituate mixture that would essentially put our vehicles to permenant sleep, as it says in:

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome ((to subdue)) them, and kill ((apokteino= seperate by dying) them ((auto= themselves)).

These double parens above are  the most accurate translation of those Greek words in this context. Ti and Do were subdued by the BEASTS (US) media in the public space (airwaves) and they weren’t put in graves yet their “fallen bodies” (reputations as they were called thieves) was in that public square for the “first third trimester half” as their story was in the media moreorless close to when Ti left her vehicle as we learned periodically.

At that meeting with Do in San Clemente warehouse in september of 1994 He asked each student, one by one, older and newer if they had any reservations as the first posters we used for the meetings said nothing about that kind of exit and there never was anything snuck up on anyone in my 19 years in the group. As it turned out a few did have reservations so Do asked what they wanted to do and they then wanted to leave the group and Do had “pursers” give them money and a train, bus or airplane ticket to wherever they wanted to go.

But that still didn’t leave Do with knowing that irreversilble action was to be their method of exit so he continued to explore alternatives as he had explored for most of the time I was a student, that actually started while Ti was still incarnate as they had that book by the Hemlock Society on all the ways one could self-exit. It’s really not suicide because suicide always includes some sort of negativity against self or others – for revenge or to escape difficult lessons on earth, lessons that we absolutely need to have our physical bodies to learn as once outside the physical body we are “set” in whatever we believed before we died.

I’ve already reported how some of us considered exiting by space craft pickup and/or by “fasting” our way out that was aborted after 14 days of a water only fast. And there was the time after the cocoon movie Do wondered about getting a boat to exit that way. He even bought a boat we had docked in Houston for as much as a year in case he felt instrucdton from Ti to all get on it and head out to sea.

If we believed in a Jesus that did it all (overcoming) for us, so that we didn’t have to do our own overcoming, then the “heaven” we get is just as fictitious when we die. If we die believing nothing is going to happen then that’s what we get – nothing. If we die thinking we will then be free, it is true but free only of the vehicle which is then also free to “change our mind” to grow, to have anything more than the freedom of floating around (though even that is limited though we won’t know we are limited as we won’t know that even in the first “heaven” – the spirit world there are “gates” and chambers, what Ti and Do called “buckets” or “boxes” which is a type of sorting the Next Level Above Human does with their school of spirits and souls as some who did the best they could with what they received will be “saved” for a future opportunity to be incarnate to learn more lessons at a time when an Older Member from the Evolutionary Level Above Human comes incarnate again to nurture towards an eventual chance to graduate their human condition to enter the Next physical Evolutionary Kingdom.

None of the space aliens have graduated. The fallen angels dropped out of a previous program before fully graduating though they did advance enough to have some service in the Next Level in elementary tasks as “watchers” (observers).

But back to the Phoenix lights:

So in the late fall Do got instructions to stop building the earthship though they told those in town, like I said, it was because of the upcoming winter. I’m not saying that didn’t have somthing to do with it, but as with all things associated with the Next Level there are all sorts of overviews but they don’t tell their servants on the ground incarnate more than they need to know as there is a strategy in it. They need strategy because the Luciferian space aliens have strategy as they try to second guess what the Next Level is going to do as they knew well who Ti and Do were and were seeking to steal away souls that were their students and also just resent how they have been restricted to the earth and a short distance into near space so want to do anything against them they can do.

The Next Level lets the lower forces do this against them because it provides all souls with the full free will to choose who to give allegience to, as Jesus said between the Kingdom of God and Mammon (all things that are wealth and treasure to humans). We build our strength of mind/spirit by rejecting human mammalian ways when we know there is something else to aspire to, which is why Older Members from the Next Level come incarnate to share with us in a way that’s direct to understand so not to be left with the archaic and distorted and diluted records (though the truth is still very apparant in all Jesus said, which is because the Next Level saw to it that record remained accurate enough to be used to help awaken future students to their reality and the overcoming process that Ti and Do equated to a metamorphosis).

They stayed in Scottsdale “until it started to get hot” and moved to Rancho Sante Fe from Paradise Valley, Arizona in the spring to summer of 1996.

So the strategy as I suspect was to give the Luciferians the idea they (Do and crew)  would be living and exiting from the Phoenix area and somehow blocking them from knowing when they moved to Rancho Sante Fe to exit.

But the Luciferians I suspect wanted to make their show to relate Ti and Do and crew to themselves, to the space aliens, especially for Christians to see as they had already begun to do though various sources like MUFON who had a staff member who specialized in UFO’s in religion and in the report of the Yellow Book Bob Lazar was shown where he read that the same ones who provided the 5 spacecrafts to the U.S. to back engineer their operation were the ones who also said, “we created Jesus” and said they had video footage of Jesus on the cross from that time period as proof. And I guess it’s possible they do have such footage.

That would indicate that there were some of the space aliens who did seek to commondeer who Jesus represented to turn people to themselves which is also a big part of what the Urantia Book also accomplished and then makes further sense out of the Paul of Tarsus contactee experience or at the least the idea for it, if Paul was directly working as like a double agent even unknowingly.

But the Next Level steers completly away from showing themselves to humans in such an obvious way as seven lights spread across the sky or as a triangular or wing shaped craft or as actually any of the sightings. The Next Level does things in ways humans see as “nature” – meteors, asteroids, fireballs, comets, signs in the sun, moon, stars, planets, signs in earthquakes, volcanos, storms, tornado’s, etc. weather events as then people still have no proof except the proof they get from a “deposit” that they must grow or lose that too.

After all Jesus said it would be the false christs (ians) and false speakers/teachers (prophets), that includes the space aliens directly an directly by teaching humans certain things that show “great signs and wonders” to even persuade those who are “called” (deposited with the soul container) to see the truth (which comes from the incarnate Two Witnesses who are the Father and the one called Jesus returned incarnate in the names Ti and Do.

In other words the Luciferians want to further muddy the water and this is also what is behind the “war in the heavens” – armageddon which is in progress and is a war for souls. Souls are literal deposits of the equivilent of a larva (seed, embyro) that has the potential to become a new child in the Next Level that can become an adult in the Next Level eventually.

I suspect Ti, knowing of the Luciferian plan afoot threw them a curve ball by appearing to locate in Scottsdale to exit. I suspect the Luciferians knew the exit was very near, maybe even expected it at spring solstice, passover time – the time the Israeli tribes exited from their bondage and the significance of comets.

Even if I am wrong about some of this, it’s occurred to me as I ask and dig to see more so may be accurate enough that it might help others come out of “spiritual” thinking a little more to see some of the potentials in strategy. We can think Lucifer is a myth – certainly one of the ploys he likes to spin in his web of lies along with the rest so perhaps this can be of value to someone.

That staging event doesn’t make sense to me otherwise as the Space Aliens have no reason to woo the general public though since saying that the idea popped into my head that this was staged to steal souls – an agenda they definitely have and what better time to do that but when the Next Level are drawing that huge attention. The Next Level may have blocked them from doing so at other times as if we can be wooed by the Luciferians as our choice then the Next Level gives us opportunities to be wooed though at the same time they give opportunity to ignore that wooing and keep our eyes on Them.

Here is the link that stimulated this but I am also aware that a movie is coming out in March about the Phoenix lights, perhaps with that new footage which will make it into another science fictional perspective for many.

Air Force Aviator Leaks Dramatic ‘Phoenix Lights’ Cockpit Footage

Fireballs/Booms – CERES (green) Lights=hour of judegment begins

Sawyers comment to post below regarding the bunch of fireballs reported this january 2016 in Arizona, maine to kentucky to michigan, Finland, over the medeterrainian and the New Jersey booms and more, that I see at this time as the “loud voice” of:

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

This doesn’t seem to refer to the time when Ti and Do and Crew went public with their information because though that’s the criteria for judgements of whether souls are saved with them or recycled, the period of Judgement hadn’t yet begun while they were here. It was a different “hour” – 40 year period. The hour of their work seems to have started in 1/1/1973 and ended on 1/1/2013 as evidenced below that then also began the judgement hour of 40 years (though that doesn’t mean we have 40 years before recycling is fully underway as shown during the 6th seals opening, as we approach the 4th seals opening now. I don’t know how fast things could happen. It may depend on our responses, something Ti and Do often said and prophecy said the “days would be shortened” for the elect so I think that means those who elect to give their all to Ti and Do will exit their vehicles before that time their vehicle might otherwise see it’s last days in the human kingdom.

So if it doesn’t refer to the Ti and Do and Crew delivery of their 7 thunders and the front of the Rev 5:1 “book” that was written from within the Throne (Ti and Do) and yet says it’s the time to “preach” the “everlasting gospel”, it sounds to me like the time of the delivery of prophecy slated for after the 6th trumpet sounds during the time of the seventh trumpets sounding that I suspect started with the 2008 National geographics final report Heavens Gate where it was suggested Heaven’s Gate could have been the “second coming” and extended sounding to the Ceres Lights revealing and the Pluto like an earth revealing (as Ti and Do talked about it being).

I believe this is preaching of the everlasting gospel is also shown in Rev 10 as the “little book” that “John” is assigned to “speak about” (prophecy), where “john” is whoever the Next Level gives the task to, which is by far not limited to any one person but anyone who wants to serve to deliver that little books content to others:

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 10:8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

Rev 10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

Rev 10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel’s hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

Rev 10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

That content of this Little Book/Backside (history of prophecy and coming AFTER the Main body of the Book) is the detailed compiling of all the evidence of how all of Jesus prophecy and teachings and the entire book of Revelations are all fulfilled by Ti and Do and Crew’s incarnate time to date and to come.

So as said it seems this was laid out in:

Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

Said as the “backside” of the Book, and time period after their exit of their incarnate two “waves” (raptures in 1975 and 1994).

There are many evidences in prophecy to another “wave” of “sounding” and “voices” (disclosures) after the Two have exited but here is one I just found:

Jwnody reported in her document, “Overview of Present Mission” that the posting to the usenet groups of Do’s document: “Undercover ‘Jesus’ Surfaces Before Departure,” posted on September 25-26, 1995 was “premature” to post, though I’m sure nonetheless was Do’s instruction to do as the 6th Thunder (roar) as described in Rev 10’s Seven Thunders that all sound as a part of the 6th Angels trumpet sounding that ended soon after they exited their incarnations. Mature simply means that full maturity of what that position was saying will be forthcoming, though the document Do wrote is the entire basis for it. Do, as Ti simply didn’t spend much time on prophecy or much about the time after their exit.

With that said, here is a comment I left for the blogger who posted a report of many of the fireballs and other events. I follow this woman’s blog as she brings interesting things I might otherwise miss, though some of it seems off track but I provide a link to her blog entry at the end that has a bunch of links in it to these report. (Again, please forgive my bad grammer, and all else that’s wrong with this comment. I don’t have the time to polish these.  I just blurt them out at times as there is so much that I just hope someone who has a deposit of Ti and Do’s mind can become stimulated by seeing, which I do all day long when I’m not trying to finish this little book (that I believe is just a couple months from the shelves).

Sawyer commented:

Excellent reporting – Here’s my take so far.

re: the indian shootdown of a ufo – and metal balls of different reports falling from sky – I’m fairly sure that would not be Evolutionary Level Above Human in any respect. First off they would not let humans or space aliens even come close to shooting at them. They can’t even see them with any of their technology. The Space aliens are all human equivilents. Members of the Next Level are Above Human – they have no mammalian characteristics anymore but designed humans to appear like them as humanoid shapes, though that’s only one type of physical vehicle they grow for their members who have graduated from a human kingdom equivilent elsewhere in their universe.

re: the fireballs – you will note that this just started as of the start of our year which as 2016 is the year of the harvest judgement beginning in earnest with the green horse of Rev 6:8 being elected by the great Babylonian Empire (Beast) the U.S. and includes the lessor second Beast the E.U.

Remember the forerunner to these events was The Ceres “cityscape” of lights that were not space aliens nor salt – that’s balony. It’s a Next Level base they wanted to be seen at that time exactly as then it would be reported in time for it’s prophecy fulfillment in Rev 6:8 because “green” is from greek “chloros” that is related to our english word “chlorine”  that makes white/pure out of bacteria, which by the way was wrongly translated to pale by the anti-jesus christians led unknowingly by the Luciferian fallen angels now space aliens, the vehicles that they spawned as told in Genesis 6 and the Book of Enoch. So Chloros is from the same greek word “chloe” which is described as related to Demeter the goddess of the harvest and fertility whose roman counterpart is Ceres and we are really an extention of Rome in the U.S., who largely became christians starting with Constantine that helped make it popular after Paul of Tarsus either knowingly infiltrated the Jesus followers or was influenced by tricks from the Luciferian space aliens masquerading to him as Jesus. In either case, he totally diluted and brought distortion into the records that the now populist governmentalists began to cling to, so because a mechanism to control the people and have them think they get this big reward when they die, called heaven by just saying they believe in Jesus but don’t believe or do anything he said and in fact do the opposites of what he taught so that their jesus is their anti-christ – they are their own dreaded anti-christ.

One comment I saw about the fireball from Virginia said it looked “greenish”.

Now the “green horse” follows Do (of Ti and Do) on the white horse where horse desribes the human vehicle he prepared to be his vehicle to perform his task on/through as he demonstrated the metamorphosic changeover needed to gradute the human evolutionary kingdom to become a member of their Above Human family. The next horse was Red but this horse was prepared by the Lucuferian space aliens because of their agendas to try to get off the planet as they have rumors among them that the earth is going to be changing again and if they don’t escape it entirely they’ll end up having to try to survice underground for at least 1000 years. They are aware of the prophecy in that regard. So they got the humans to bring about the reasons to have endless war for the great amount of money they could funnel to black budget programs so they didn’t have to get congressional approval for much. So they got the humans to move NASA into the DOD. Anyway there is a lot to this all in my very lenghty book about to be pubished this year even soon.

Obama is/was the black horse as the prophecy goes having to do with balancing the two beasts – US and EU to create the mechanisms of the new world order – hence the WHO just showed how they can declare zika virus a global emergency which who knows what that will become. it could be fabricated entirely as an excuse for whatever purpose or it could be a way of hiding all the bad choices they  have made re: their vaccine programs that stimulate many birth defects along with gmo’s and chemicalizationj of our bodies, etc. while funneling money again for whatever usage said for an emergency vaccine as money is not only needed for the space programs that are also looking for the element bob lazar documented that provides power for the space alien spacerafts, which they are also hard at work trying to manufacture at CERN, etc. And they need money for the underground bases they continue to construct so when they see they have to, all those on their lists who have bought their “shelter” can escape what’s going to  happen on the surface.

(it’s possible that’s what the “booms” are under New Jersey but then they reported they were not seismic so that doesn’t make sense as underround explosions from fracing and/or tunneling and undgerground base making do produce seismic waves, so they could be lying about that, but why would they as they could always say it was a mini earthquake whoses pressure cause the sounds waves and all who are involved with agencies are not in the know about all this so to respond in a cover up way can be tricky, though possible of course)

But to me with all things considered, though I could be wrong about, the booms are the “thunder” in prophecy that comes at the start of the Judgement HOUR which is a 40 year period that I believe started around 2013 that I have a number or reasons for saying so.

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

This crew from the Next Evolutionary Level, under Ti and Do’s instructions, being the return of the one called the Father and the one who was incarnate in the vehicle named Jesus, are flying in the middle heaven. There were three heavens according to Jewish talmud which corresponds with things Ti and Do said and that work with this prophecy as well. The Lucifer and associates only got to the middle heaven which is why they still could revert back to human mammalian behavior as they did to propogate with humans as they and their descendents continue to do now (except they don’t have their original physical bodies) but they are in “spirit” manipulating the offspring from when they were able to create hybrids with humans and their seed which is what they continue to do with humans now in abductions. They also want humans who did receive souls from the Next Level to become their servants, co-workers – “brothers/sisters” because they have no other way to get new members because all those who are space aliens were humans who were given souls because they were alive at a time when the Next Level was planting souls which they do whenever they are preparing for one of their Older Members and student crew’s incarnation into those vehicle they prepare.

Anyway, off track again as there is so much to tie together and it’s one puzzle that makes all else pale in comparison – in my opinion that is.

The reason I picked 2013, though the same kind of show occurred in 2014 and 2015 with each year starting with lots of fireballs mostly in the west third of the US and the eastern seaboard from the great lakes region to florida even.

if you recall back then it started with the cherblynsk meteor that really caused a bunch of damage but no fatalities in sibera. (Russia is the Magog area mostly and has a role to play later in prophecy I suspect after the 1000 years after the US and EU are completly fallen and annialiated in the “lake of fire”. That may happen fairly soon like I would guess at most by 20 years from now but I could be wrong about that.

Then after that meteor with booms galore there were many fireball sightings in california and montana and utah and then a huge amount of sightings from the ohio valley to northern florida with reports from maine and vermont as well. Those were in february and march. Then in march of 2013 there was a near miss asteroid and two comets that came out of nowhere. One of those coments named Panstarrs showed an object traveling immedieatly ahead of it yet still very much in the comet’s coma so it couldn’t be debris as deprise would not project ahead of the comet as this black object did.

I suspect that was to show us the same kind of thing that was photographed by the japanese to be  with hale bopp comet that the U.S. airbrushed out of their hawaii photos and covered up when it was surfaced on art bell’s show at the time fearing more people would commit suicide becuse of the Heaven’s gate groups “laying down of their human bodies” not because of the companion object but in the timing of the comet in combonation wtih their 22+ years preparation that started essentially on 1/1/1973 – 40 years before this 2013 anniversary which is when Ti and Do first got a chunk of awakening. The Next Level doesn’t have “time”. But they do have schdules but they are in “events” they schedule using the planetary bodies they design to function they way they do as the earth is their hothouse to grow souls on using human vehicles as their “footstool” to “deposit” their type of “seed” into, called a soul to grow it to become a Next Level member if it chooses to follow the program which is actually like a God Astronaut training program in a new society of beings that thrive on being apart of these projects forever while humans and earth’s come and go along with the human spirits that they don’t salvage from an earth that’s in need of recycling which is about to happen in the next couple decades to degrees but will not annialate all the humans and the earth will repair itself from all the damage humans have done to it.

I could list the comets and near miss asteroids  that came out of nowhere last year and the year before that but I’ve already dumped more than most can stand so I’ll restrain myself. I don’t know if the Next Level will repeat this coming march (their exit anniveary with a near miss asteroid and comet or not) as all they do can be under the heading of that “angel flying in the midheaven – midst of heaven”.

I guess my vote is that they were not ordinary so called meteors and that’s why they are being called fireballs a relatively new term becaus they don’t behave like meteors really.

More Spacecraft Shoot-Downs & Fireballs January 2016 [videos]