The podcast is called:
The Heavens Gate Mass Suicide 1997
https://youtu.be/kGbCOoIbsSU
Sawyer’s replies/comments:
No one in the group said or believed that they would be “taking a ride” on the Hale Bopp comet or the reported “companion object”. They said it was “irrelevant” whether there was a companion object. They said the comet was the “marker” of the timing of their exit. Note that anyone who has any belief in Jesus as being from outer space with a message of how to qualify to join his team might want to consider that the comet is what was depicted in the saying of Jesus that follows.
(While I’m at it, here is some evidence that Jesus was an ET because of how he knew ahead of time what would happen on earth to help people wake up more to his reality):
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning((greek astrape – rooted in astra=Star and the “gleam of a lamp” or shining)) cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Most of the comets we see that come close to earth that are labeled “great comets” because they are able to be seen with the naked eye (if one knows where to look), though with Hale Bopp it was even seen with the naked eye while the sun was still up over North America. Plus it was seen traversing from east to west because that’s the path along the ecliptic that the stars follow and it really does look like a star that is moving, though Hale Bopp was also perhaps the biggest comet ever seen.
Now saying that it’s referring to the “Son of Man” coming means He would be returning through taking over a human vehicle (as son=offspring and from man = humans, speaking of the vehicle that was tagged for his usage that TI and DO said about both the vehicles they took that they would have died had they not “tagged” them for their usage.
See, they knew that TI would be coming to pick them up in TI’s spacecraft but they didn’t know whether TI would take their vehicles as well. They thought it might go that way at first but they also came to know over time that it might not go that way as they didn’t think the Next Level had any use for their vehicles. But since TI had left her vehicle, “burned it out” dealing with all the negativity sent to her that people don’t even know happens but people in high profile public places know well of and she certainty was made to look like a dangerous cult leader in 1975 that was reported that way throughout the world. Since DO wanted to “cover his bets” for whatever TI wanted to do, he prepared the students to have a change of clothing and passports and a small amount of money on them. That was in case TI decided to heal their vehicles.
So the “coming” part of that verse may appear to not apply to their exit, but as it turns out it was the Coming of TI at the end of the task that this comet was a marker for, in that context. Here is the definition options for “coming”:
3952 parousia {par-oo-see’-ah}
from the present participle of 3918; TDNT – 5:858,791; n f
AV – coming 22, presence 2; 24
1) presence 2) the coming, arrival, advent 2a) the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, hold the last judgment, and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God
TI and Do always noted their “coming” paralleled with the coming to perihelion of the great comet Kohoutek which was first sighted in March of 1973 a couple weeks after they left Bourne, TX where they received their first big awakening package of new information. By the end of 1973 is when they were ready to write their book but their car broke down somewhere in St. Louis around december 25th when Kohoutek was at perihelion that led to their eventual arrest as “thieves” (in the night, what TI and DO said meant that they were coming “undercover” (wearing normal human vehicles) to somewhat quietly as possible take Souls away from human existence – what the Luciferian space alien fallen angel souls had laid claim on).
Remember how there was reported in the Book of John if I recall correctly that while the students of Jesus were with him, he physically rose up and was received by a cloud (covering) and that Two People they thought to be “angels” verified to them that this was real and was the way he would always come and go (whether visible or not). So the Cloud was a spacecraft though don’t know how filled with light it was to look like a comet looks though from a greater distance, but actually perhaps a better context is the so called Star of Bethlehem – that may have been a comet as well and/or a spacecraft as a “marker”. By the way in the New Testament when they use the word “sign” it often can be translated to “marker” as well.
Jesus said healing from ingesting a poison could be a sign of a Next Level Member, which since Their students were members of the Next Level in new vehicles to finish their graduation requirements to become adults in the Next Level, still being in a type of children development, this could apply to them that they can perform healings on themselves and others if that was part of the program:
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Actually this was said in the context of Jesus sending his students out to spread the news of his coming so applies most to them but this can always be the case that the Next Level can help any human they choose to recover from taking in some kind of poison and help them deal with in this example snake bites while a poison can even be something that some in the human kingdom think is medicine but for some it can be deadly. Case in point, the vakkkkkkkks all do kill some who take them – it’s just a small amount and not every humans has caught the eye of a Next Level Representative to get their help with something like that. Plus the point is that “it shall not hurt them”, which can be their vehicle and/or their Mind because a student knows they are not their vehicle but need to use their vehicle to learn their lessons through.
So what happened in this regard, since the space alien fallen angel souls hate to see anyone showing their allegiance to Jesus and his teachings, they set out to discredit them at every turn. That’s why Christians often support wars and some have become molesters of children and other hypocrisies to the Jesus belief/working for. So humans were led to be made fun of with the idea that had some picking up serpents and some drinking poisons thinking Jesus would save them. For all I know the Next Level did help some who drank poison or got bit by a snake, but some they let get very sick and/or die – because even that can be a lesson learned and the Next Level can take anyone’s Soul and save it for a new planting.
But the context of what jesus said could be literal but also works figuratively to where poison is taking in any substance or way of thinking that could result in one losing their vehicle and/or their soul because of those choices, that is if they continued to make those poor choices to put poisons in their body or to go along with “serpents” – the space aliens and their human counterparts and discarnates with their same mindset of seeking to steal souls to their camp/corporation.
So taking up serpents, I believe really meant to override the lower forces attempts to influence us who are TI and DO’s students, like saying “get out of here” (as Jesus said “get behind me satan”) to remove their thoughts and feelings from our consciousness – putting up the “blank cue card” in our mind and even growing to sense their vibration before thoughts even register or fully register.
TELAH stands for The Evolutionary Level Above Human. The recycling hasn’t occurred yet because that’s what happens after the Next Level gives ample opportunity for people who are reaching for the truth about our ultimate purpose here on earth, who the Next Level has helped, to hear about TI and DO’s gateway into the literal Heavens and chose to whom to serve and to whom to die for, between dying for humans or dying for the Next Level Older Members. Either way our human vehicles are going to die. They had the right to die on their terms but they didn’t do so until DO knew his students proved to him and to TI (then outside her vehicle) they were ready, because that was in no way their end but many don’t comprehend that and think it’s religio-spiritual hearsay, but that doesn’t mean it is because some don’t want to even consider it.
The phrase “ascended masters” came about through the Theosophists and was a twisted way of elevating human religionists who took on the reward to themselves but who were often the opposite of having become beginner students and younger members in the Next Level Above Human.
If you took the time to really look into the entire story, what was taught and how they lived you would find out that there was no manipulation or psychological mind control program or other nefarious practices or agenda’s unlike many cults to include the cults that do have those agendas via governments and corporations as we have been witnessing of late to the enth degree. Your jargon sounds intelligent but doesn’t describe what happened in the group but is the attempt of a number of writers to use to explain what DO and Crew chose to do, ignoring the 22 years before then that evidences how they couldn’t in anyones right mind be considered insane, though that has become increasingly easy to see with the increases in technolgies and events that demonstrate the realities they taught that were even foundationally what previous members of the Next Level taught, though became corrupted entirely into religions. Now there is the religion of human science that is what many “believe in” which includes thinking that it makes any sense at all that this planet and it’s life forms came together because of the oxymoron of “random and/or accidental development”
To state that the phrases Kingdom in Heaven and/or kingdom of God is “faulty or false religious literature” is not based on facts. In fact that part of the religious literature has a huge amount of evidence and that evidence extends the most to what started to happen in the late 1940’s with crashes of spacecrafts and bodies that were humanoid but clearly not human in their organ composition as per the autopsy reports provided by Leonard Stringfield who worked for MUFON that he acquired from at least one doctor who leaked the report of the autopsies he performed. Now if all that history that could fill many volumes is ignored of course less of this story would be considered fact, but even that last 70+ years shows how humans can live in at least a tiny degree of outer space in the ISS, a joint effort between the US and EU and Russia and others.
The autopsies reveal on some of the subjects of having no reproductive organs while some had a remnant of reproductive organs. This then corroborates what TI and DO said in 1975 that revealed that Members of the Level Above Human don’t reproduce because for one, they don’t die like human mammals do. And since the crashes also showed a technology that was beyond human then and now, as they still haven’t seemed to perfect their propulsion zero point energy system that Nicoli Tesla documented because the key to such a drive is the elements that are not found on earth and that no one has been able to manufacture though they have been trying , but that they found in one engine that was dismantled and examined by Bob Lazar who was hired to work at a groom lake area 51 military aircraft test base in Nevada. One can ignore all that but my mention here is just the tip of the iceberg of facts that many of because of their enormity of value were leaked on and off over the years. So I’m saying this because these people who came from outer space or from caverns inside the earth’s crust where there has been evidence have existed beyond just the records said to be religious because the religions passed them on in the compilation of the bible do exist. That means the stories from the religions – most all of them by the way even among cultures that had no coordination can easily be shown to have a strong basis in science facts but of course remain the choice for some to pay any attention to at all, just like some believe the earth is flat and/or there was no moon landings and that some think humans create much of the weather. Some humans even think they are the most advanced forms of life in the universe, another oxymoron considering how many humans act now and how limited humans are really – can’t even hardly live past 70 or 80 and still be vibrantly alive.
I’m ignoring your sarcastic comments on this serious subject. Talking about them as if their ideas are science fiction has no weight, especially since what was initially science fiction in this brief earth history turns out to tell the future that was about to be revealed that was often poo pooed at it’s origin in writings and of late in movies. Some tiny examples are the portrayal of people video communicating all over the planet as portrayed by some very early sci fi movies like the Jetsons and others. Then there is the idea of beaming down to a planet from Star Trek. While the method isn’t to deconstruct one’s genetic makeup to reconstruct at the destination, it does bring evidence to the ideas that a living physical being could travel from a flying craft to the earth and back as humans do now which Jesus was documented to have done when he left with his physical body that he proved to many was physical though that became distorted to be a Spirit. However, with what they call 3D printers they can send digital instructions over the air waves, though to be a miracle had we talked about then in the early 1800’s that could reconstruct a blueprint of a physical object in another part of the earth. Also it would have been thought insane and was for a long time to talk about germ theory and then there is the genetic code which is evidence of very detailed intense programming that can even change with repetition and mutation to evolve or devolve. The science of Mind is yet another idea that was way ahead of it’s time as shown by many cultures. So you are missing a whole lot of reality by acting as if science fiction can’t show things that will only be understood in the future. So if one extrapolates that idea to the Book of Revelation it could offer explanation on why many of the prophecies are not made up fanciful stories as some want to believe and have that right to believe but are the communication from a highly advanced physical Level of lifeforms for the purpose of holding school on the planet they engineered into existence for this purpose upon which they also engineered it’s lifeforms but did so in such a way that their reality would only become manifest in each person’s mind according to their openness and desire to see it.
What evidence do you have that supports Members of the group thinking they “needed” to be castrated. I know of that subject in great detail and was pressing DO to allow me to have that procedure if he got instruction to allow it of me. I suggest you read the document entitled Sawyer’s Story on my blog, sawyerhg.wordpress.com for the details of which I speak, though it might be in a document linked to by the Sawyer’s Story document. But it’s also in my book that is posted on my blog as well. Search my blog for “castration” and it should bring it up. If you have trouble I’ll find it for you. I didn’t “need” to be castrated. It wasn’t required either. DO didn’t give that instruction to allow it for over 3 years from when it first came up in around 1987 that DO was considering doing for himself as he was tired of dealing with the hormones that flow through, in this case a male vehicles system that stimulates those desires. Remaining sexual, though part of the human kingdom as a choice doesn’t exist among Members of the Next Level. It’s not a moral issue. It’s practical that to be on a crew with others in the Next Level spacecrafts if one still has that desire in their Minds they will have a type of weakness if it were allowed to graduate while still having those desires. Those desires are not just from hormones but are programming as well, programs because of all the times someone runs that program throughout their life. So getting rid of that chemical production is but an aid that together with the learned self discipline of not wanting to be sexual actually helps someone develop more common sense about what is beyond the human condition where they are quite happy with no sex or reproduction at all. Some of their tasks, by the way are to be on duty observing humans on computer screens as blips of light that get brighter when someone is especially thirsty for learning and growth, yearning to learn what’s real beyond this place which is a lot more than what is really a facsimile created by the lower forces of the planet to keep us as temporary life forms addicted to our sensual passions when we can evolve by choice to no longer have any of the limits humans have.
That’s not true re: your saying they all went to mexico for the procedure. I know of two who went to Boulder Colorado and the first castration I was present for with Lvvody as the surgeon since she was a nurse for an orchiectomist in the US. That was performed in a sterile room set up in a warehouse in San Clemente, CA. However, we put a sign up over the door to that sterile room that said Mexico so at first when I told that story that got reported as happening in mexico. The purpose of the sign was in case someone filed charges against any of us, we could say it was done in Mexico, a type of white lie as we were not doing anything wrong or against anyones will by any stretch of the imagination and even Jesus supported someone castrating themselves for the Kingdom of Heaven’s sake meaning because it would be seen by the Next Level as wanting to give Them all our heart, Mind, Soul and Strength as the Next Level doesn’t need new members so they do make it very difficult while also providing all the help according to the grade in school of the students. The Moses grade in school was like early elementary school while the Jesus classroom was preparing for graduation but that a human who appears to be at the top of the human game is basically in the 6th grade with the object being to get out of all the things they got into by climbing the human ladder. That takes place over generations of potential growth of a Mind. But to graduate one needs to get rid of most all their human desires because then one begins membership in the Next Level with pure goodness which is why so many humans when they would meet the students in various setting mostly really liked them. In some circumstance because of what I hadn’t overcome I wasn’t liked by some I worked with at jobs in the world but that’s part of why I wasn’t permitted to graduate with them.
Wow, the books you get your information from have botched this story. It was true the first castration had a “minor” complication that we didnt’ know at the time was minor but learned about when it was easily fixed when we took Srrody to the hospital. That problem with Srrody’s castration of his vehicle had nothing to do with Srrody’s timing or reason for dying, though he was among the 38 students at Rancho Sante Fe. Do I suspect wen to Mexico but I’m not sure of that but I understood that DO experienced some difficulty from his castration. But the other 5 students to chose to have that procedure were required to leave the group and find an apartment close to where they would have the procedure and to get a job to pay for the procedure, which shows they were acting on their own volition as one can think they were brainwashed by DO which wasn’t at all the case but all who know anything about brainwashing as humans do to one another all the time through the great amounts of propaganda in the mainstream media especially that’s considered normal and true, is that one must continue the brainwashing to keep it effective to the subject. And one must also have the same environment. If DO had them in some spell as some humans claim which is ridiculous to say the least, their living and working someplace far distant from the overall group would be an easy way of breaking any alleged programming. People keep trying to come up with ways of denying the truth that they were exactly who they said and showed that they were so they don’t fit any human molds or models, though many humans act like they do so they write books and all that does is show what they don’t know to the few who sense there is more to this story.
Yes, srrody really enjoyed not having to deal with his vehicles sexualty much anymore but that had nothing to do with his commitment to TI and DO and The Evolutionary Level Above Human (TELAH) as that took place after he’d been with the group since 1975 and I knew him very well and he was as dedicated as I was but more successful in his overcoming than I was.
Another erroneous opinion saying that TI and DO were preaching that the world was against them, as little as they did that, which wasn’t really talked about with everyone until the news broke in 1975 in october which did show how hated they were but they said nothing about that except rarely, many years later, but saying that thinking the world was against them/us had nothing at all to do with my belief and commitment to them and I bet that speaks to the 38 as well though especially I know about for the 24 who I lived with for 19 years in the group. These authors get a free pass to conjure up these opinions and put together with some of the facts, they give the appearance of truth while as skewing it all over the place to their own liking and lack of belief.
The Christian Arts center closed months before 1973 as they had another center for study called Knowplace for a few months after the Christian Arts center and then by 1-1-73 they left the houston area entirely, more or less run out of town by their former friends and family who some thought they were having an affair but there was nothing of the sort happening.
One thing this person said in the podcast that he read from wikipedia caught my interest (as I haven’t visited for a while) that I wanted to know about was when TI’s vehicle, Bonnie Or Bonnie’s husband filed for divorce and why. I don’t doubt that what he read was true that the reason for the divorce was because the husband didn’t like the direction Bonnie was going in her study and experimental practice with what was seen as the occult that had been so demonized by many Christians to explore, including astrology. So it seems the divorce proceeding had little or nothing to do with TI’s vehicle meeting DO’s vehicle, though perhaps that was the last straw for the husband. I know he thought she was having an affair with Herf. I remember DO saying that the husband had threatened Herf, so much so that DO filed a restraining order on the husband so that he wasn’t allowed by law to come anywhere close to Herf. That was all before they left Houston for good on Jan 1, 1973 which was always a date they identified with really starting their task together and that by February they were flooded with information to answer many of their questions, coming to both understand independently of one another (though they compared notes) that they had both come from the literal heavens to bring updates to the bible and to fulfill prophecies. That began their journey to learn what the updates were and what prophecies they were to fulfill which compelled them to study all the materials they could find that led to their examination of the Revelation materials when they had arrived a Gold Beach, OR, staying in a campground on the Rogue River painting rocks to sell to tourists to afford to buy cream to live on eating blackberries they would pick as they grew wild everywhere, which I can attest to when I lived on the Oregon coast north of there. I did a lot of blackberry picking when I visited there in 1995. Recalling that reminds me of the depiction of John the Baptist living off of locusts and wild honey. Doesn’t sound very appetizing to me. I’m much rather have berrys and cream but I guess cream is an animal protein product so it’s what’s available and one is used to. Anyway that’s where they realized that Rev 11 description of Two Witnesses was talking about them, though they didn’t like telling anyone about it because they would run away from individuals who they would meet who would claim to be the reincarnation of Cleopatra or some other biblical figure – even wondering how there seemed to be more than one reincarnation of Cleo. Read ’88 update for more on this.
No DO didn’t realize he (his Soul) was from the Kingdom Above Human while in prison in 1974. He had come to that realization with TI by the time they were in Boerne, Texas after leaving houston on jan 1, 1973 while renting or borrowing a friends ranch house trying to understand what they had to do together. Like I just detailed, it was by mid February of 1973 that he knew his Soul had come from the Kingdom of Heaven to do a task.
By the way they separated the term alien from Members of the Next Level though they understood that some would talk about aliens and Next Level members as the same. The huge difference is that the aliens are the dropouts from a previous relationship and elementary service some Souls had. Those souls were given Next Level vehicles of a type that still allowed them to experience a reverse metamorphosis to function as humans, that Adam experienced when he fell (though recovered) which was the same Soul known to us now as DO, who was also Enoch, Moses, Elijah and Jesus (according to TI) and according to DO, TI was his Heavenly Father, Jehovah and Elohim throughout that time that he referred to as his Older Member who fathered him into membership in the Next Level.
The Two Witness prophecy they were fulfilling never said the world would be destroyed and TI and DO said the earth was still a good planet to be used by the Next Level as a garden again after it is refurbished because humans have destroyed it’s further use as a beginning garden. They didn’t think anything that had become good on earth would be wasted and they felt there was more goodness in the world than badness though there are less people who are growing to be good by acting in humanitarian ways towards one another.
There were never 200 members because there was no membership in anything for the first 9 months in 1975-6. I gave that estimate to media in 1997 as being the general amount of people who traveled with the groups for that 9 month period until TI closed the “harvest” on April 21, 1976, though told us to finish the public meetings we had already set up to do. Most of those dropped out while on the road. One could say there were about 100 members but after a few months together in the summer of 1976 TI and Do told 19 of those members they weren’t seeming to be serious enough so they split them out of the group and told us who remained that we “made the first cut”. After several years without them, 2-4 of those 19 later found the group and wanted to rejoin and did and were among the 38 in 1997. I don’t know where the 88 number came from. The only use of the number 88 that I know about was the document DO wrote entitled ’88 Update – The UFO Two and Their Crew which he wrote in 1988 and sent to a bunch of UFO researchers in an early attempt to see if they were the type of people who they would make a bigger effort to go public to again as we did nothing with the public from July of 1976 to 1992.- 17 years in seclusion with no new membership and were down to 24 students then but as we went public some dropouts rejoined in 1993 and then again after 9 months of public meetings about another 12 joined but then some dropped out so it went back down to 38 students with some who wanted to be in the class but kept having a pull back into the world. I left in september of 1994.
Rod and Judy, my best friends before joining in september of 1975 did not give Judy’s two young children to “friends” as you just reported/read. They went to stay with their biological dad who lived near Portland so they weren’t left with any less care than many many children from parents who were divorced. However, I don’t know what happened to them since then but I do know their names were Noah who was over 1 year old and jennifer who was about 5 in september of 1975. Ron is seen in some documentaries as Aaron as he and Judy joined but didn’t stay more than some months at most.
The reason Children couldn’t join was because they aren’t mature enough having had little to no experience in the world to choose to no longer partake in the world. This is one of many clear examples of why Heaven’s Gate stands alone from all other organizations on earth (combined with many reasons to say that) because they had good reasons – even common sense reasons for everything they did even though they didn’t attempt to explain themselves because they were never trying to attract great numbers of students. In fact more students made their job that much harder so instead the sought to filter out those who they felt couldn’t go the distance to graduation because believe it or not it was hard to stay in the group and yet they wanted everyone to stay and yet we didn’t necessarily know it was hard to stay because there was no real carrot – stick motivation, no punishments, no guilting, no pressure from fellow students as it’s true we stopped socializing for years but after TI left those socializing procedures were relaxed from what they were which DO said was because we didn’t need the stricter rules anymore so they were relaxed thereafter which is contrary to what Frank said in the Heaven’s Gate podcast saying after TI left her vehicle he said Do became more controlling. I confronted him for examples and he could give me none because it was a narrative he had formed in his head only because he wanted to justify leaving is my guess based on what DO said about some of those who chose to leave – they would have to justify it to themselves somehow.
Completely wrong. In fact after I left in 1994 their library grew a lot as I know people who have become book collectors. After I left I doubt they spent much time at all on the bible. For the first 10 years I don’t think hardly anyone including myself looked at a bible. We had a handful in our library by 1980, but there was only one bible lesson given and that was by DO while TI was in her vehicle but didn’t come to that meeting. He told us to bring whatever bibles we had to the meeting and said to open it to Revelation 12:1 where he said that TI was the “woman” and that the Dragon was speaking of Lucifer who he preferred to call Satan in case someone had that name of Lucifer or Lucy which he thought was a beautiful name. TI said that Lucifer was still loved by the Next Level but the problem was that Lucifer fell out of love with his Older Member and by love I’m talking about plutonic love, the highest form. Do started us optionally reading the bible without telling us what to read for whoever wanted to do so, in 1987 because he was starting to feel that TI was giving instruction from outside her vehicle since he still felt her close contact with her, to go public again and he was exploring how to go public, with what terminology, generic or religio-spiritual though he preferred generic because it was more accurate since the Next Level are real and not religious as the religions had all become “killers of souls” because people would get addicted to feeling pious and saved and going to heaven in some form and ceased observing – being open to how Jesus would return that without recognizing could miss it entirely because they are so glued to the past lesson plan. If they would take the time to learn about all TI and DO taught and not get freaked out by their own limitations that they largely got from Paul who was influenced by the lower forces then they would see that TI and Do fulfill all the same lessons and plans and recognition of the Next Level that Jesus brought but then had a bunch more to say that were the updates and the way the prophecies would be fulfilled. After I left the group I documented how all the prophecies from Jesus and most of what’s in the Revelation material are being fulfilled by TI and Do’s presence and in the time after they left especially. I can show perhaps the best interpretations and translations of words because of the time I spent learning from TI and DO – I got a bunch of insights. Most of that I received is still available to anyone and it’s all free of charges, over 900 audio tapes and 15 or so video’s and many writings from TI, from DO and from their students.
Interesting that ten turner said there were too many people anyway – a huge confession as it turns out that he would appear to have eugenic thinking like Bill Gates and Bill Gates dad have/had that’s well documented. They don’t mind getting rid of humans who they determine are ‘nuts”. That is the state of the world displayed very well here. And his wife Jane Fonda was a big anti war activist which in my own little way I was too over vietnam and then in Iraq, but this view that they as humans have the objectivity and science knowledge to judge there are too many people anyway shows how little consciousness he had at that time (though perhaps he’s changed). There is no evidence how many people could live peacefully on this planet even if all of them are burning oil like crazy. Thinking there is no Next Level in charge here is even silly. If someone told me when I was young that the automobile came about by accidental development, and oxymoron even at a very young age I would have disagreed or even laughed. I know that because at 7 years old I asked my parents and other parents in the room where babies came from and they weren’t prepared for that question so gave no answer and when I got no answer after a minute I put my hands up in the air and shrugged my shoulders and said, “well things don’t just happen”. And if we know that the human inventions didn’t just happen on their own somehow how can we say that the complicated yet simple designs of the elements needed to construct all the inventions “just happened to come into existence” by some random mutations over millions of years. There are planets where things can evolve but it’s not on their own. They need to be stimulated and that involves many stages but the earth isn’t an example of a true evolutionary garden because the Next Level took out the missing links so humans couldn’t intelligently show all the stages in evolution.
Do’s vehicle was estranged from his former wife and children subsequently I think years before DO met TI, as I understand it but could be wrong about, largely because for a while he was a closeted homosexual and had at least one affair with a college aged student where he taught music that got him fired claiming that he had emotional problems, I suppose because he was seen as emotionally disturbed because he was gay. We know that many humans are of that mindset and especially at a catholic or whatever denomination runs St. Thomas University in Houston where he worked.
I hope Do’s vehicles son talks to God the Father in Heaven – out among the stars and asks about his vehicles dad and is then receptive to what will come that will challenge him. Many who take such a position don’t ask Their Heavenly Father about things that would upset their world view. I know that from experience. It’s similar for Terrie or was as who knows how either of them may have changed so I’m rooting for both of them to wake up some. But what comes to mind was something Jesus said that I believe DO referred to once where he said, “a prophet is not without honor except in their own family”. They have a harder time seeing their relative as something special in this regard. For one the lower forces don’t want anyone to see the truth. But that doesn’t mean things can’t change. We can all change until we lose our vehicle and then we are set and the Next Level will decide how to sort Spirits and Souls into boxes, saved for a future planting and new classroom in a new civilization that they might choose to grow towards graduation from – the only true future the human kingdom can have because the human kingdom was created to be a stepping stone into Membership in the Next Level Above Human where is the only place where true Life exists because they don’t die anymore as hard as that is to imagine but makes perfect sense that this grand planet and these magnificent life forms, our vehicle were created for a reason that is even more magnificent.
We are against suicide for people now as we need our vehicles to learn lessons through. I have tried to talk at least three people from commuting suicide. All three were saying they were miserable in this world but that’s because they weren’t choosing to work for TI and DO. They were influenced to think suicide was a quick fix because the classmembers left seemingly with that label from much of the world. That’s the same thinking as has been taught to millions who believe when they die, if they believe in some savior and they abide by a few rules that when they die they will live happily ever after with that savior and they have bought an illusion. Dying gets one nothing but the spirit world and that’s not better than living though one may think it is because they won’t have those problems anymore because all they will be is a program on the loose that can’t change because we need a vehicle to change our programs to be better programs, programs that can lead to becoming a Member of the Next Level to establish and grow our Mind to run. So death is meaningless to growth but it’s all about who we die for. If we die for fellow humans (not counting those who kill a bunch of people they say for other humans) like lets say by rushing into a burning building to save someone’s life as we die in the process I bet the Next Level swoops up that Spirit or soul and knows they can become Next Level material as they acted against their vehicles programming to live at any cost which means they were applying what was Next Level perspectives that death of the vehicle doesn’t determine death of the soul. Jesus talked about this but of course some people think that was all a made up story to control people. That’s ironic because the story of jesus that many Christians tell is where the made up story is. Like saying he wants us to be successful and even wealthy and have big families and give of our abundance to the church and be born again in their beliefs when all those thoughts are dead ends to Next Level Membership in the real Kingdom of Gods in the Kingdom of/in the literal Heavens – the elevated areas above the earth. Like jesus said “no man takes it from me” speaking of his life in the human vehicle he took over. He said he has the authority to lay it down and the authority to take it up again BECASE he goes to the Father, his Older Member who is more real and alive than any human because He is out of human time and limitations. It’s like a human being able to observe the entire life span of an ant and can observe all their choices and knows what they don’t know. That’s what it’s like for Members of the Next Level but not quite the same as with humans and ants but I say that to get the concept across I hope. To the Next Level we are like horses that are wild and the Next Level captures us by telling us the truth about our reality that some knew was the case but hadn’t remembered it in this lifetime. So the horses that then receive the new training either buck and try to throw the rider in which case the rancher lets them go back into their world to run with their herd. But the ones who learn to respect their riders end up loving serving and all the perks of even feeling a part of the ranchers family. Ti and Do also used that analogy with dogs. My experience with TI and DO was phenomenally totally filled with goodness but not saccharine goodness like we see coming from governments and religions and some people that’s really about their selves at the expense of others.
So I agree that any group that teaches us to hurt our vehicles or another’s vehicle is a group to get out of. But in TI and DO’s group we weren’t taught to hurt ourselves physically or mentally or to do so to anyone else but it’s very obvious to all of us that we will eventually leave this world and some leave at a very young age and others at what we think is an old age. The church used to teach that laying down our own vehicles life for any reason was an original sin that one would go to hell for, yet no where is that taught and especially not taught by Jesus. They would even say that euthenasia was wrong. They’d rather have someone live as a vegetable and/or with on quality of life while their loves ones are miserable with and not going on with their lives than allowing them to exit when they want to. We are against suicide.
Sawyer Stands for Ti & Do's Heaven's Gate 